How I love Psalm 42.
It has brought me such strength when all His waves and billows are sweeping me over me.
We have done this psalm before, and will do again, for it is ever needed and ever new. Recently, on this blog, we completed the first book in the Psalter, and now we will begin, until the time of Thanksgiving and Advent, the second book in the Psalter. It begins with “nine songs of the sons of Korah,” so we should expect some great music inspired by these psalms. My favorite psalm (at least right now!) is Psalm 42, and its heart cry and dialogue with the soul continues on into Psalm 43. This is a famous psalm — many great pieces of music, even a whole classical hour by Mendelssohn, have been inspired by it. Why does it so penetrate the hearts of believers?
Next door to me is a dock that has stood strong in the storms of Lake Michigan for 60 years. It is a dock from which I, my children, and my grandchildren have caught fish, teeming without number. From it we have watched the waves and boats empowered by His invisible wind, so like the Spirit in our lives.
But last month we had a storm like none I had seen. In the beginning, it was exciting, and I went out and filmed it, and put it on my author facebook page. You can click below to go to see that five second video sweeping over my neighbor’s dock — but that was just the beginning of the storm. Soon it moved from exciting to frightening.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=623923911059448
Eleven inches of rain filled basements everywhere. The fierce storm gave a fatal blow to the foundations of this seemingly impenetrable dock, actually cracking the cement. Now, every day, more of the dock disappears into the bay. What seemed impenetrable is passing away.
When the very foundation of our life is cracked, and we feel like we cannot go on, what do we do?
We speak the truth to our souls, for if our foundation is cracked, it is a faulty foundation. For we have a foundation that can never crack, we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken. We must talk to our souls, the way the psalmist did, when all of the waves were sweeping over him.
This is my beloved husband months before he died, near the dock I just described. Steve was a contemplative man, and he often had to take his soul in hand during his illness. He told our youngest, “Annie — I’m so sad I have to leave you — but I’m so glad I got to be your daddy. And I will always be your daddy.” Even in those words I know that Steve was talking to his soul. He trusted God’s promises that we would be reunited one day. And we will! One day we will hug, we will talk, we will laugh — and “everything sad,” as Tolkein put it, “will be untrue.” Joy will come in the morning.
My son J. R., who studies the Jewish holy days, told me that the day of Steve’s death, October 16th, was the 8th day of the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, and represented eternity — for an 8 on it’s side is the symbol of eternity. Steve and I have been separated for ten years, but we will be together for eternity.
Jesus knows our sorrow will only last for the night and joy will come in the morning, yet He still cares about our nights, and will comfort His suffering child. And at times, deep will call to deep.
What does this phrase that has inspired poets and painters mean?
Sunday Ice Breaker
Charles Spurgeon interpreted it as “the deep voice of God speaking deep into our souls.” If you have stood by a waterfall you know there is an echo. In the midst of tumult, in the midst of the wilderness, our God has a way of speaking to us. Usually it is through the Word, sometimes through the peace only He can give, and sometimes through a gift that comes with such uncanny timing that you know it is from Him. How I remember when my daughter Sally came to me on the 5th Anniversary of Steve’s death with news we had waited for so long: “I know it’s a sad day, Mom — but it’s a great day — I’m pregnant!”
1. Share a time when “Deep called to deep,” when in a time of sorrow or anxiety, the deep voice of God spoke deep into your soul.
LET’S GO!
Bible study: Monday-Wednesday
READ PSALM 42:
Read as a lover reads, lingering on the images. There are four water images. The first is familiar to us because of this praise song. Make this song a sacrifice of worship by singing with your mind and heart to the Lord.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w4DOB7OYTs
1. In Psalm 42:1-2, what is the image? What do the streams of living water that the psalmist is trying to find represent?
2. The psalmist says he is not finding God. He is like a deer dying for water who comes all the way down from the mountain and finds the riverbed dry. What water image is in verse 3? How is this a true lament?
3. Look carefully and see if you can find hidden in this verse 3 the classic signs of depression. (weeping, not sleeping, not eating).
4. Find another causal factor to depression in verse 4.
5. Often, when facing an enormous trial, we want to withdraw. Have you felt that way? Why is that one of the worst things you can do?
6. If you are, indeed, withdrawing, talk to your soul and tell her some of the ways being with Christian brethren has encouraged you in the past.
I want to tell you how you, my sisters on this blog, have come to mean a great deal to me. It is often through you that God whispers, encourages, and guides. You are a well of water into which I dip. One of you sent me an engraved heart that says: “Love beneath the waves: deep calls to deep.” I treasure it and I treasure you.
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it?
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul?
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do?
10. As the psalmist (we aren’t sure if it was David, though Spurgeon says it reeks of David!) is far away from others who love God (he may be fleeing in the wilderness from enemies, he may be captured) he remembers times when he did have fellowship with brothers and sisters. He remembers how God was close to him. He is lamenting when suddenly God comes to him. In verse 7 we have the famous phrase “deep calls to deep.” What water image is it paired with? What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?”
10. The fourth water image is both negative and positive, though I for so long only saw it as negative. Find it in this same verse.
A. How could this water image be negative?
B. Verse 7 paired with verse 8 shows how this water image could be positive. What do you see?
11. Watch this and comment on it. What images from Psalm 42 do you find? Other thoughts?
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCwDtSFMjdw
12. Read Psalm 43. What do you see?
13. Why must we at times keep repeating the same truth to our souls?
Thursday-Friday Sermon
14. LISTEN TO KELLER’S FREE SERMON ON PSALM 42 AND RECORD YOUR THOUGHTS: http://www.gospelinlife.com/finding-god-7916.html
15. ONE THING THAT IS INTERESTING TO ME, IS KELLER REFERS TO PEOPLE WHO SO BACKED AWAY FROM GOD IN THE MIDST OF PAIN THAT THEY ARE NOT SURE THEY ARE CHRISTIANS. WHAT THOUGHTS DO YOU HAVE ON THIS?
Saturday:
16. What is your take-a-way and why?
495 comments
Jackie – I’m so sorry you are facing such heartache with your son. As a single, this is something I have not experienced, but I have walked with so many friends through the valley of seeing their children make poor choices. And I have a sibling … So I have an inkling. I am praying he will see the emptiness (not to mention danger) in this path. Wanda – I so appreciate your boldness in asking the question you did, because it’s one I’ve wondered about too! A lot!! I dropped out of church in 1998 after some trauma. I was heavily involved. Worship team, pianist, church treasurer, missions committee (not all at the same time, ha!!) It was a medium size church (400-500 attendance) and evangelical. I had many friends there (I thought). No one (and I mean NO ONE) ever asked me why I’d left (maybe they all knew ..?) or said anything to me about it. It was 12 years before I got brave enough to try again. There was an Acts 29 church where I live and the teaching was phenomenal! (I still listen to the pod casts). I started attending in the late summer of 2010. Went weekly through the end of the year. Supported financially, jumped into service (nursery was their biggest need and that is so NOT my thing – but I was one of the regulars). Just was so hard to meet anyone. No one my age. I’m not outgoing. I’ll ‘do things’ but I am not brave enough to initiate a conversation. I am usually alone for Christmas and had long quit going to Christmas Eve services because it was such a lonely time. I preferred to stay home and watch choral Christmas concerts on PBS. But since I’d been attending for a while, I decided to go that year. It was to be an informal service with a fellowship time afterwards. I came loaded with food …. cheese ball, krumkake, plate of cookies and pumpkin bread. Great service. Afterwards, I stood around, watching people visit and snack on the food … hoping someone would at least say hello to me. No one did. But I felt like I couldn’t just leave because of the food (I didn’t want to leave my Christmas china there). So I hung around until the food was mostly gone, quickly grabbed my stuff and snuck out. One person did wish me a Merry Christmas on my way out. I went home and cried bitter tears and vowed I would NEVER – ever again – go to Christmas Eve service – or anything else. I feel guilty writing that (selfish, whiney) because no one was obligated to minister to me that night. I am not the ‘reasons’ for Christmas! I know that. But it hurt so much. And so I just quit going. The next time I was called for nursery service, I simply said I was no longer attending there, and that was that. It all confuses me. I suspect that I project ‘leave me alone’ – even though I try so hard not to. But with each new wound, my wall gets higher. I just don’t see myself ever going back to church. I miss it.
Beth, I am so sorry for your difficult church experiences. I liked that you wrote “I’ll do things” (Sometimes I prefer to work in the kitchen, but I’m usually brave enough to say when I want to hide in the kitchen). I wonder if there might be some way for you to serve others who are alone — maybe older people who are unable to get out or give someone a ride? I do think that many who attend events alone feel awkward approaching groups — and others who might be alone may be looking to “latch on” to people they know. Unfortunately, I suspect many of us might not even see those who are alone during social times because we either are focused on our own awkwardness. Your post shows me the importance of “scanning the horizon” for others who might feel awkward rather than either making a beeline to someone I know or becoming a completely detached observer. You may not project “leave me alone” but you may need to hunt for points of connection (doing things) with others. I’m praying that you will find a fellowship.
Most people would appreciate the food you brought! When I saw your list, I thought that anyone who knows what krumkake is is a friend of mine 😉
Renee – I know Krumkake! Can I be your friend?? 🙂 My great-grandma and grandpa came over from “the old country”…Norway! As a very young one, I well remember krumkake at Christmas! And some very jelly like fish……ugh! But great memories…..
YES, FRIEND 😀 And that jelly-like fish is lutefisk that is not prepared very well (if it it jelly like). And even if it is prepared well, it STINKS! Around here, we have lutefisk dinners, sometimes for church fund-raising. I’ve actually tasted some stuff that I liked. Before I moved here, I didn’t know it could be made “right.” We had it a few times when I was growing up — the only reason I even wanted a bite is to remember what it tasted like. The WORST lutefisk experience I’ve had was when I found a lutefisk TV dinner on clearance. (Bad, aluminum tasting, freezer burned lutefisk — just to refresh my memory!!). I don’t think I took any pictures of the food we had in Norway this past summer (didn’t see Krumkake, but had lefse!); will have to see if my sisters or cousin have pics to post on FB! Kinda funny: I have a colleague from Malaysia who makes krumkake every fall!
Renee – Amen to this “Your post shows me the importance of “scanning the horizon” for others…” Beth your story is alarming and I have witnessed the same in some of the churches I have been to. =( Thank you for the stark reminder to be a blessing to others. I struggle with reaching out because I am an introvert and uncomfortable as well but there are bigger things than my comfort!!
And add me to the friend list – I love krumkake and used to make it every year with my MIL, haven’t for awhile because I don’t own my own krumkake iron (is that what it is called? An iron?) but someday I am going to steal it from my MIL as my own. 😉
Jill, 😀 you’re on the list! I like the idea of swiping your MIL’s krumkake iron! I think my mom’s krumkake iron already has been swiped. That just means someone else gets to do the work of making it;)
Beth, You’re probably my “neighbor.” I hang out in or am from eastern ND, SD, and western MN. Please consider joining FB group!
I’ve found that it’s always ‘someone else’s job’ to talk to new people/single people at church. Once I even had someone come to me after church and say “You should go and talk to that person over there.” When I responded that maybe God had shown her that person’s need so she could go and talk to her, she replied, “Oh no, I haven’t been here as long as you.”
It’s a problem – people see needs, but they don’t feel responsible to meet those need, rather they think the problem is with the church. The church is the people who attend. Oh, and I’m guilty too… I’m an introvert, who works in a role that involves lots of people contact. So I’m often peopled out by the weekend. Quite happy to go to church and not hang around afterwards talking to people.
kerryn I just seen this and had to respond. I am right here with you. I have been serving for so long, giving and giving. I’m always trying to recruit volunteers and get people to get involved and it seems like nobody gets it. People around are hurting and need the church. So many time there are a select few who are viewed as the church. When the true is we are all the church and have gifts and maybe aren’t so gifted in some areas but God wants to develop that in them. If someone isn’t comfortable praying with other people out loud. That has to be developed like any skill. I’m sorry your going though this. I’ve been going through something along the lines and what God is teaching me is that I have to be honest about how I feel, pray more about it, use more wisdom in dealing with it (people get hurt and offered easy with people they view as leaders), AND KEEP MY EYES ON GOD. This week’s devotional has been amazing. The Lord is teaching me something. psalms 42:5 might be a life verse for me. I’m always around people so it’s easy to get distracted from God. WORSHIP GOD, He will show you how to deal with it. Maybe you should teach a hospitality class or intro to prayer class. Just a thought….
HE (GOD) will teach not we will teach. Sorry
Beth, I am so sorry to hear about your lonely experiences with the church. I wonder if you have tried to find some kind of interdenominational women’s bible study. I found one a couple years ago and it represents about 11 different churches. It isn’t like “normal” church, but it has been so very good. Beth, we were not designed to do life alone. We really do need each other and you have much to offer.
Beth – it means so much to me that you would pray for Patrick. You are right on target to pray that he will see the emptiness in path he’s chosen to follow. Sometimes I remember the emptiness of my own path when I was his age – humbling. It also makes me tremble to think of the audacious way in which I lived my life, without thought for my Creator and Redeemer. What a God He is – to come to us in Grace and Mercy!
You can be sure that my prayers will be added to others’ prayers here for your broken heart over the hurts you have encountered in the church. Surely the heart of Jesus’ breaks with you over so much of what you have experienced there……why oh why can’t we really begin to see with His eyes? Like Diane has said “we can be so clique-y”…..and I believe Nila said “we really do need each other and you have so much to offer.” Amen to that. Renee and others here have offered thoughtful, good suggestions….but we will pray that the Lord will lead you, even in your time of deep disappointment, to just the “right fit”. I wish you lived in Maryland…..like I mentioned a few good friends who “hunt me down”….I would hunt YOU down!! 🙂 I pray too, that this study of the Psalms will be a deep balm to your heart.
Beth…..it made me so sad to read of your pain following that Christmas Eve service. I just hate to think of people’s hearts breaking in that way. Sometimes, I see that so many of us have been hurt or suffered losses and are reaching out here… in this place… even though we aren’t able to be together in the same room and fellowship face to face. I am sincerely glad that you have joined us. I hope that you will feel a sense of belonging here…..because you do belong. We welcome you. I just read Renee’s comments and I think she has some good thoughts about some possible steps. And I totally agree with her assessment of the good foods you generously brought to that evening! Krumkake? YES! (I love it but have never made it…..same goes for lefse, rosettes, sanbakkels and fatigman (not sure how to spell that one). Can you guess my ancestry? 🙂 Thank you for your transparency here……and stay with us. There is a lot of sweet fellowship to be found here.
I join my sisters here in saying how sorry I am for your church experience on Christmas Eve. That sounds painful. The fact that you hung around to get your Christmas China… How awful. I hope I have not contributed to anything or anyone feeling like that. I feel like I haven’t because I’m usually the opposite! In fact a couple of weeks ago I saw a new person in our church and went up to him and started chatting for probably 10 or 15 minutes after church just let out. I think I scared him off, because I haven’t seen him since 🙁
I do think southerners (which I am one) tend to be a bit more “friendly” than northerners….I know, I shouldn’t stereotype, but I have lived both places (granted, not the Midwest….but I do have many relatives from out that way) and that is my experience. If you ever get to live down south, I think you would find it a bit different. I remember people in my churches who were “charged” with meeting someone new each week. They really enjoyed the challenge. I will pray for you to find a new home to worship with.
All this conversation about lonely or introvert people in church is a good reminder for us to look for the other alone/quiet/introvert people who are attending and try to welcome them. We can be so clique-y (not sure of the spelling of that)!
1. The first time my husband & I recieved the news that we would be having a baby joy and happiness filled or souls. At our first ultrasound we recieve news that broke our hearts. We were told that the pregnancy would not progress and I would eventually miscarry. We prayed for God to bless the pregnancy and believed for a better report. About four weeks from then I did miscarry. As my husband and I drove to the hospital we prayed for compassionate doctors and nurses. When the doctor came in to confirm what was happening, he sat down and with tears in his eyes and explained what happened. The nurse that was assigned to me never was able to have children and had miscarriage after miscarriage she didn’t cause despair but blessed my heart and gave me strength. That night we prayed again and I said Lord please be glorified in this. He was, I have had the opportunity to pray for so many woman who have also had a miscarriage or miscarriages. Sharing in their sorrow just like that nurse and giving them hope for a baby of their own. I have three wonderful sons now and am in the exhausting season of having small children. GOD IS SO GOOD, and our saddest seasons give us what we need on such a deep level. That doctor and nurse where so sent by God. He was in the doctors eyes and in the nurse voice.
Nicole — thanks for coming on and sharing such a moving story — of God coming to you in your enormous pain.
Nicole, this is BEAUTIFUL! Tears..
Nicole…..Such beautiful and wise words here. “God was in the doctor’s eyes and in the nurse’s voice.” And….’our saddest seasons give us what we need on such a deep level’. So good. Your three sons are very blessed to have a mom whose heart is so tuned in to the Lord. I remember that ‘exhausting season’ of three young children. I would go back there in a heartbeat though! But I know, it can also be a lonely, isolating time so I hope you have times of refreshment with others. Thanks for sharing.
Nicole – this is an amazing story of how God ministered to you through others and then that enabled you to continue ministering. You said it well, “God is so good.” Amen.
1. The image of a deer seeking a stream to refresh her thirst. Streams of living water means to me the love of God that fills and nourishes the soul.
2. The water image is the image of tears.the psalmist is lamenting that God has withdrawn and his enemies taunt him.
3.The classic signs of depression are noted; day and night (apparently he is not sleeping), only tears for food (not eating), and weeping and fasting.
The causal factor to depression is remembering what was the past, apparently similarly sad experience.
Withdrawal, wanting to be alone, causes more self-centeredness. I believe a person needs to share feelings and let out the sadness or else bitterness will result.
Burying feelings only leads to a cycle of unhealthy behavior, stress and illness.
Being with other Christians should surround one with love, concern and hope.One positive solution is that the needs of others may draw one out of the self-pity and not feel so lonely. Now as I have read some comments i feel sad for these exceptions. I am in a small church of 30 to 40 people. Usually it is easy for newcomers to make friends, i believe. Since i attend church with many i know, I have not experienced this. it is sad because it shouldn’t be that way.
Shirley – your last paragraph about how church should be brought tears to my eyes…..oh how true. I found that when you said your church was pretty tiny, maybe that’s what some of us need….more intimacy and less “mega”. How blessed you are to have found such a loving community of believers…..
1. The first time my husband & I recieved the news that we would be having a baby joy and happiness filled or souls. At our first ultrasound we recieve news that broke our hearts. We were told that the pregnancy would not progress and I would eventually miscarry. We prayed for God to bless the pregnancy and believed for a better report. About four weeks from then I did miscarry. As my husband and I drove to the hospital we prayed for compassionate doctors and nurses. When the doctor came in he sat down with tears in his eyes and explained what was happening. The nurse that was assigned to me never was able to have children and had miscarriage after miscarriage she didn’t cause despair but blessed my heart and gave me strength. That night we prayed again and I said Lord please be glorified in this. He was, I have had the opportunity to pray for so many woman who have also had a miscarriage or miscarriages. Sharing in their sorrow just like that nurse and giving them hope for a baby of their own. I have three wonderful sons now and am in the exhausting season of having small children. GOD IS SO GOOD, and in our our saddest seasons HE gives us what we need on such a deep level. That doctor and nurse where so sent by God to answer our prayer. He was in the doctors eyes and in the nurses voice.
Nicole what a beautiful story and it is so beautiful that that experience gave you a special compassion for others. The Lord does use what we have gone through to be able to minister to others. This is the first time I have ever seen your name although I am still relatively new here but welcome and I am glad you shared that.
Nicole,
Thank you for sharing this painful and beautiful story here. Loved this: That doctor and nurse where so sent by God to answer our prayer. He was in the doctors eyes and in the nurses voice. I am certain that you can now offer comfort and hope so compassionately. So valuable.
Amen.
5. Often, when facing an enormous trial, we want to withdraw. Have you felt that way? Why is that one of the worst things you can do? church itself….so it doesn’t quite seem to fit this question. This is hard for me to remember. When my daughter, at age 10, who already had cystic fibrosis and we had lived with the myriads of appointments, worries, sleepless nights of never ending coughing, daily therapy and guilt always hanging over my head, if it didn’t happen, medication nightmares, hospitalizations, financial and insurance stresses……. was diagnosed ALSO with type 1-insulin dependent diabetes. That was a much harder diagnosis for me to handle, because I truly could not understand HOW on earth, we could manage both diseases AND HOW on earth could SHE keep up with all that was asked of her every single day…..(no time offs for vacations, holidays or birthdays). UGH. Just re-counting this turns my stomach. I didn’t sleep or eat for a week. Forced every bite just to try keep up some strength. I had previously signed up to attend a woman’s one day retreat with some church women, which was happening in a week or two. I remember starting to ‘back out’ when I was with several women gathering to make plans for car pooling etc. One woman came to me…..and literally, shook her finger at me and said sternly, ‘YOU CAN NOT back away now. Now, is when you need to be with others more than ever.” And I was ‘shocked’…..completely. She isn’t someone who talked to me a lot. And, out of some weird guilt or something, I went through with it and attended the retreat. It was horrible to be there. My daughter had had her first insulin reaction the night before, and I was SICK with worry the entire day. After, the day long seminar, we went out to eat. Another woman asked me how I’d enjoyed the day. I just spilled my guts and said ‘I was totally miserable’ and told them why. I know I cast a terrible shadow and rained on everyone’s parade. I also realized that the ‘advice’ from the woman who shook her finger at me…..was wrong. Not the concept in general. For I DO believe that we need each other greatly, in times of trial. But the way she did it AND the fact that she never once after that, came to me and asked how things were going for my daughter. Ever. SO…..yes, there is danger in withdrawing. But YES, there is also some time and space needed when someone is going through a trial. I NEEDED to be with my daughter on that day. I NEEDED to know that things were going okay and that her insulin/food intake was in balance. Pre cell phone days and there was no way for me to be in touch with my husband to see how she was. It was the longest day I’ve ever spent with other women. I have ZERO memory of what the seminar/speaker/discussion at the day long retreat was that day.
UGH……ignore the first half sentence in my above comment. I edited out some stuff and didn’t get it all.
Wanda–I was just headed to bed and saw this post come through and had to respond. I am so sorry. I hate that you had this woman, I’m sure meaning well, but really being like Job’s friends after they stopped sitting shiva! I had a very similar experience after my Dad died. I was in my 20’s, newly married, and on the Church staff. a “friend” insisted I not back out of the women’s retreat 3 weeks after my Dad died–though I was still numb and wordless–I went, approval idol I guess, and it was awful. The “right’ kind of fellowship during trials is a gift, but the “wrong” kind is pain upon pain. So sorry you had to go through that.
Regarding finger-shaking person: Very weird, especially since she didn’t seem to be someone who was there for you. I’m sorry that you had to add stress upon stress. (P.S. I don’t remember the topics of almost anything I attended over 10 years ago, maybe over 5 years ago– and that’s not because I’ve been through anything similar). Can’t imagine being gone right after her first insulin reaction, especially when she was so young. I have a difficulty determining what is withdrawal vs what is “normal” desire for time/space (sometimes it’s obvious, but there is a huge area that is more fuzzy to me)
Wanda – you just made my day!! You say so many needful things with that one story that I wouldn’t even know where to begin! Even though my “baby” is no baby anymore…..there are just times when a mother has to do what a mother has to do…..especially when keenly aware that our baby’s days may be thin…..our time with them like the sands through the hourglass (as it is in all our relationships!) ….and sometimes our voice, our hands, our feet….are LITERALLY “Jesus with skin on” to them! I truly think there is a difference between making our family and their needs our idols and following Jesus and showing them the love of Christ. Sadly, I sometimes think our families see the church as more of a “club” than the Body of Christ. What a world of difference to you if the finger shaking woman might have responded “Oh my goodness, of COURSE you must be with your child! What can I do to help? May I bring you some food? Let me pray for you and your family right now…..we will be praying for you on our retreat…..” Any number of ways to let the Spirit flow through! We really can be the sweet savor of Christ to one another …..and to the lost.
I just feel I need to say (even though none of you will ever know who the ‘finger shaking person’ is) that I have really grown to appreciate her. She sometimes comes off as stern and/or detached, but I have seen a true heart of compassion in her too…..and though I still don’t often see her, we have had some connections over the years that have been good! Just didn’t want to leave such a vivid, negative picture! 🙂
Wanda – so looking back, you can ALMOST see “tough love” in this woman’s finger shaking?!? You must have the spiritual gift of MERCY, WAnda!! 🙂 Seriously, thanks for adding these comments…..the Spirit working in you is SO evident and nourishes us all so much. Another example of that I found in your reply to me several posts back, when you mentioned being very careful with the details of your children’s lives. I needed to hear and think on that. I did want you to know, that with regard to Patrick, the details of his accident were swirling about on social media immediately….including a prominent local weatherman who has many followers, showing a photo and calling it “the worst single vehicle accident I’ve seen in my 10 years of reporting on traffic…..” the responses were getting out of this world crazy and, I stepped into the fray to set the record straight at that time. In the following days Patrick and I discussed secrets, shame…..many, many things, but he gave me his blessing on telling the story wherever I thought it could be of some help. I didn’t want you to think that he is unaware that I ask for prayer for him – sometimes adding some detail. Also, with Jes and her cancer, etc…..when she first told me, she asked me for absolute silence for a period of some months….which I of course, honored. After that, she also gave her permission for me to share as I needed to with other believers, etc. STILL – I took you words as from the Lord and appreciate them SO much!! You’re a wise mama I do believe.
Oh thanks for the above, dear Jackie. I’m not so sure I see her actions as ‘tough love’ (as it still does bother me to think of that day)…..but, somehow, I never really held that against her. We’ve never been close, but I’ve never gone out of my way to avoid her (as ashamedly, I can say, I have done for some). Where I’ve seen her compassion has been in her later years, when she has, several times gone to Kenya to work with AIDS orphans. I do see that she was well meaning, in what she said…..it did come on quite strong though! As for the privacy of our adult kids. I do respect everyone here who has shared about their kids. Every situation is different and I am really impressed that you’ve talked to Jes and Patrick and they have affirmed that you can share their stories. I also saw the facebook page where the newscaster had posted the photo of Patrick’s truck and read the comments. I saw your words, when you came on and said ‘It’s okay. I’m his mom’….and then went on to clearly set it straight. And you were not defensive or punitive to the commenters……but made a bold statement of your faith and honored God in your response. I was very moved by that, Jackie. I even told my husband about it, because I was so amazed at your wise and well balanced response. I can only wonder what I would do or say in such a situation. And oh, your dear daughter, Jes. My heart is so torn for her….I have another close friend (my daughter-in-law’s sister) who was dx with cancer at 23 and I spent a lot of time crying, praying/soul searching when she was going through her initial year of it….and two years later, when it recurred. (she is doing well right now) I truly think of you and Jes a LOT. The loss of Abel and cancer besides…….the grief of it all is really unthinkable. Please know that I have the highest regard for you and for what you share and do not at all look down on anyone here, who is more open about details than I sometimes have been. I also think (know) that moms who carry such deep hurts with their children so need a safe place to share and pray. As hard as it is to share, I am so glad that we can emotionally/prayerfully come alongside each other here.
You know, after considering the painful experiences of Wanda’s , and also Beth’s, I realize that one lesson i have learned is that one should not give advice…( by committing this error, I have been awakened). Sometimes one must just go to God and be still. For only time and tears -a needed relief, can heal. God gives each of us unique trials that others do not know.
Sadly I do know that cliques cause much pain in some churches. We did leave one church like that. They seemed ingrained and it was more like a social club, I believe. Yet then again some dear friends remain from that time in my life. This must hurt the heart of God as well as those who have withdrawn. My reason for leaving was that I was not growing or seeing fruit there. I do miss people who leave and i know there is always some hurt that is covered or just not revealed. Small fellowships like the one I am part of can be very good. But the enemy always seems to attack and we need to be alert.
Shirley….this is so true and yet, we all miss it at times. I like your words about ‘not giving advice’. I also need to take heed. I was ‘bemoaning’ how someone was handling a trial in her life to a friend just last week and my friend said to me. ‘I can’t speak to that because I have not walked in her shoes.’ Bam. I needed that. And your words too.
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it?
“Why are you downcast…why so disturbed within me?”
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul?
I sort of think he is asking “Where did God go?” which may be a symptom of having put his trust somewhere else – in some Idol Lie. I hope I’m connecting this up with our idolatry study in the right way.
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do?
To put his hope in God and praise Him. This tends to bear out what I said in my answer to #8. He may have had his trust in something else and realizes his mistake, and so he speaks truth to his heart and says “Hope in God and Praise Him.”
10. As the psalmist (we aren’t sure if it was David, though Spurgeon says it reeks of David!) is far away from others who love God (he may be fleeing in the wilderness from enemies, he may be captured) he remembers times when he did have fellowship with brothers and sisters. He remembers how God was close to him. He is lamenting when suddenly God comes to him. In verse 7 we have the famous phrase “deep calls to deep.” What water image is it paired with? What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?”
Part of verse 7 refers to waterfalls, but the second half seems more like the ocean “all your waves and breakers have swept over me. Waterfalls do make a roar, gathering steam, so to speak, from the friction of each stone it rumbles over until it hits the bottom which makes a loud noise. There is the sound it makes along the way, and then the louder sound when it finishes its course in a large pooling of water. You can hear a waterfall from a great distance.
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it?
Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me?
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul?
Of the main idols, this chapter gives me the feel of desire for security (feeling better) — or maybe affirmation/approval because he says his enemies are taunting him. Perhaps he is asking “Why do you feel so uncertain?” OR “Why does what others say make you so discouraged?” Ok, I’m going to take the cop-out answer: I think these idols feed each other and that there may be elements of both. There even could be a hint of power because the psalmist could remember when he led the procession, but I don’t have a strong impression of a power idol showing up right here.
SO, WHAT IS THE RIGHT ANSWER? I like the security of knowing 😉
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do? Hope in God; he knows that he will praise him once again. I LOVE this — and feel a sense of relief/certainty reading the verse. I KNOW God is trustworthy — and that is soaking in more deeply all the time.
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question: what is it? “Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? ” WHY? Oh, three such powerful little letters in that word! Oh, how deep it probes! It’s not enough to stay stuck on the obvious: in this case, our soul is cast down and in turmoil. Children instinctively know this, right? Somewhere along the way we lose a little interest in the “why” and just try to tread water and handle the “what”. “Why” pushes us deeper into the story…..pushes us to see a bigger picture than just my despair – “why” lifts our eyes to the One who holds it all in His hands…..
8. For those of you who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul? Just realized I haven’t done the idolatry study and thus, should not be out here in the deep weeds trying to figure out what this is about!! 🙂
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do? Hope in God. For I shall again praise Him, my salvation. He preaches the gospel to his soul! The hurt is real. The hope is true Truth.
Good question — eager to hear answers.
What is the image in Psalm 42:1-2 what do the streams of living water that the psalmist is trying to find represent? Life for the dry soul. The Living God. Refreshing
What water image is in verse 3 How is this a true lament? The water image is tearsTo me when we are so deep in pain and sorrow sometimes we risk not seeing God or believing the lie that He is not present.
Classic signs of depression in vs 3 the tears the weeping, no appetite not eating and not sleeping. He was in so much sorrow looking in he was not looking out and seeing God in the midst of that,
Find another casual factor to depression. Living in the what was and not in the present. Only focusing on what was his current distressing circumstance and not on anything else and missing God in the process.
Have I ever felt like withdrawing in an enormous trial? Why is that the worst thing you can do? Yes I have felt like withdrawing, running away, crawling in a hole, curling up in a corner you name it. Many times I have been in such positions I have not been allowed to do that . I do know it is one of the worst things I can do. When alone we are only accountable to ourselves and we need others. It gives the enemy a perfect opportunity to move in and work on us when we are in those depressed frames of mind and alone.
If withdrawing talk to your soul and tell some of the ways Christian brethren have encouraged you in the past? I am so blessed to have some wonderful prayer partners and I have reached out at times when I have needed to but not always. I have at other times turned to praise and worship all alone. Sometimes a prayer walk with a good friend. I came to this blog on a night that I was so discouraged and found just what I needed at that very moment all the Lord. I thank each of you here for encouragement you have given me and what I see day to day amongst each other. Truly a blessing. Thank you DeeJ
Liz – wonderful, thought provoking answers! 🙂 You are such a blessing to us ALL.
Jackie, Totally agree Liz is truly a blessing here!
Thank you Jackie and Rebecca <3
Jackie, Beth & Wanda, I get teary eyed reading your comments re: church attendance. I’ve been struggling with this issue for the last 2 years. We all have different reasons for withdrawing. I was raised in church and gave my heart to Jesus at a young age. Some of my happiest memories in life are from my church days. I made lifelong friends. My husband & I found support for the ups & downs of marriage. We learned to tithe and reach out to our community. For a time my hubby was a trustee, but unfortunately it was in this position that he saw an ugly side of church. It really bothered him. Maybe some people handle it better than others. I don’t know. (I know no church is perfect) Over the years we saw more conflicts arise in our church, mostly over stupid stuff. Some of our closest friendships were affected. So after 20 years at the same church, we decided it was time for a change. We were excited to be invited to a new church by some old friends. We quickly became involved and felt like we were “home”. Sermons were real. I felt really challenged & on fire for God because of this growing, giving church. However, five years later, sudden & unexpected changes in leadership brought turmoil and raised a lot of unanswered questions. The congregation was divided in loyalties. Many left, including us. We were accused of not standing by our church family. People from our small group never called to check on us. About a year later, a member from that small group committed suicide. It’s so hard to understand how things can spiral downward so quickly. It’s definitely a spiritual battle. Despite the hurts & disappointments, I still miss being part of a church family. Churches are full of imperfect people, myself included. The hard part is my husband is reluctant to try again. His reasons are “my ears ring from the loud music” and “lack of personal time”. (If he works 6 days a week, he wants one day for himself which I can’t deny him. Sometimes I’m exhausted from just a 5 day work week!) Currently, we “attend” a church service online every week in the comfort of our home where we can sit & talk it over. I guess it is our way of honoring the Sabbath. For Christian fellowship, we occasionally participate in a small group bible study. I’m also involved in a bible study with a coworker. We were recently invited to a local church (with a cappella music!) No excuses for my hubby now! LOL I would like to try it, but I don’t want to force my husband to do something he doesn’t want to do. Life can be so complicated! I just keep praying that God will show us where we belong.
Oh Joanne……I’m so glad you joined us here. I may comment more tomorrow……but I think I better make this short and get to bed. But thanks so much for sharing your story. Yes…..life is SO complicated. I keep praying too. I am tired of the ‘playing by ear’ approach I’ve taken because, like you……I was raised in church. Always! We even went to other people’s churches for events on Sunday evenings…..and to everything that ever happened in our own. And that’s how it was for us here too….up until the last decade. Anyway…..you’ve heard my story. I am so glad you shared yours. The church with a cappella music sounds really interesting. Would love to visit! 🙂 smile!
WELCOME Joanne! Thanks so much for having the courage to step up and post and introduce yourself to us! Actually, I’ve only been on the blog a matter of months, so perhaps you’ve “been here” silently longer than I have! Still, I couldn’t help but know that you will find connection here with others who so want to see the Lord JEsus glorified in the difficulties and the mundane of this life. MANY of us have been deeply wounded at times by the church…..not to be missed is BEth’s quote from Chuck Swindoll that she just posted! Nonetheless, we do endeavor to “spur one another on” here together ……and it is good.
Jackie, I mainly participate in Dee’s Bible Study Friend’s prayer group – I have been praying for you on there! 🙂 Like you I’ve only been on the blog for a short time; I think it was near the beginning of the Psalm study. I tend to be a silent blogger because I’ve never been very good at expressing myself or sharing theological opinions. Wanda, I’m so blessed to correspond with you on FB, your words are a comfort & inspiration to me! It helps to know I’m not alone in these struggles of life. To be able to share where I have been & where I am headed with a sister in Christ means so much! Dee, thank you for all the time & energy you devote to your bible study blog. God has truly lifted you up to be a teacher of His Word. I always find fresh insight & new understanding when I read your weekly blogs. To Everyone, I love to read your thoughts & personal stories. So moving & powerful! Thanks for sharing from the heart.
Just a quick note to thank you for responding to my message which got much longer and more detailed than I intended. I have done some of the things suggested – was a leader in Bible Study Fellowship for six years and that was a great experience, but ironically, I can no longer be in leadership because I’m not in a church. (Actually, that is a very good rule.) When my parents got sick in 2011 I was making many trips back and forth to Michigan (I live in western MN) so had to drop everything. Shortly after they passed away (summer of 2011) I was diagnosed with Menieres Disease and have some hearing loss – so that became my ‘new excuse’ for not getting back into church. I work in ministry so am surrounded by opportunities to serve others. It would definitely be frowned upon if my co-workers knew I wasn’t attending church. I’m pretty sure they suspect it, but don’t ask – for which I’m grateful. I hope to catch up with all of this later. I have a friend who was just diagnosed with breast cancer TODAY (I found out 3 hours ago) so have been with her tonight and am exhausted … But thank you for caring. Church is a complicated place. I grew up a PK so was on the ‘inside’ of all the drama … it’s really unbelievable what goes on. Was it Chuck Swindoll who said “The Christian army is the only army that shoots its own wounded.” So true.
Uff…..sad but sometimes, so true what Swindoll said. Thanks for sharing more, Beth. It’s always good to get to know each other better. And I’m so sorry to hear about your friend’s recent diagnosis. Oh….I hope she receives good care and has a hopeful prognosis. What a blessing you have been to sit with her tonight.
Beth – amen to every word of Wanda’s! And this is where your being such an introvert can really allow God to SHINE through you in your friend’s distress. The gift of your presence….you probably don’t overwhelm her with words! As Elizabeth mentioned the lovely Hebrew custom of “sitting shiva”…..the Lord is showing us here your warm and tender heart Beth. SO glad you are with us. Again, I just have to think that working through some of these Psalms is going to come around to warm YOU……
5. Often, when facing an enormous trial, we want to withdraw. Have you felt that way? Why is that one of the worst things you can do?
i have definitely wanted to withdrawal, when I have had the worst trials with my middle children, and I felt like I was praying and praying and praying and yet I didn’t feel as if God was listening to me. I didn’t seem to understand that he really was in charge and it was my turn to let go and let him take over. I remember night screaming for him to listen and solve the problem. To help me, to help my kids! It was SO PAINFUL. I wluld go through a few days, usually depressed, and sad. Finally, I would be raised up by a Nancy Leigh Demoss podcast or even some post here on the blog, and find my way back to Him….usually running and hoping he would accept me again. He did and does everytime.
Now that my mom is gone I really don’t have anyone to talk to whom I trust. I am a woman who needs to “talk it out!” I do have a best friend who understands and has also been a rock through much of my issues this last year. I know that God loves me and will listen to me. He is whom I should be going to first anyway. I try to do that now, and often. I ask His advice first and then wait. It is hard, but He and I work together and my life seems to work itself out now.
6. If you are, indeed, withdrawing, talk to your soul and tell her some of the ways being with Christian brethren has encouraged you in the past.
i am not in this place right now, although many storms will come and I may feel that way again someday. I will try to remember to stay close to Him and draw near Him. When you do so you find comfort and peace. I will try to remember my Christian friends, my NLD podcasts, and the lovely ladies on this blog. No pressure! Talking it out on the blog has been so helpful. Usually one of the ladies will point me to a certain scripture which really is meaningful and helps. And then there’s Tim Keller. You can always find a podcast where he will convince you that you should stay engaged. After “connecting” somehow, it usually isn’t too long before I start to see how my troubles should be solved.
Laura……I have benefited from your last paragraph too. I think sometimes, I feel guilty because I have withdrawn from church (though still partially involved) BUT I have never withdrawn from the Lord and from His Word…..(except for a short period about 5 years ago) I have sought Him desperately, when I am hurting and kept the company of at least one close friend and now, the blog sisters have also become so important to me too. Thank you for affirming that there are ways to continue to stay engaged, even if it isn’t Sunday morning in a physical church. (In my case, the trial has been the church service itself……so withdrawing from it doesn’t seem the same as withdrawing while I have gone through other trials. Does that make sense? ) I love that you said, ‘And then there’s Tim Keller……and he will always convince you to stay engaged’ (paraphrase) Smile. 😀
Laura – reading through the comments this morning…you have given my heart wings! Your last paragraph is PACKED with practicality! “It is hard, but He and I work together now….” – I vividly remember you from, I guess almost 2 years ago when I first started silently following this Study blog…..I need to say that I have seen before my very eyes ENORMOUS changes in you Laura!! You have such a direct way of sharing the way that you work out the Scriptures in your life…..and He is growing you into SUCH a beautiful saint.
You guys are too kind! I have an “immersion” in Him when I start to stray. I anticipate it happening and go to the first “crutch” I can. One I left off the list is praise and worship music. That gets played all the time these days to give me a constant reminder of who’s exactly in charge here! Thanks for the encouraging words!
I just realized (duh) that I didn’t mention scripture reading…..ugh. To be totally transparent here, it’s because I don’t typically go to scripture first. I know I probably should, however sometimes the Bible is so intimidating to me. There’s so much there. Where do I go? Where do I start? Maybe I should break that old habit with our new “you version” type Bibles. You can actually search for a phrase or word, and it Will lead you to every verse in the Bible with that phrase. I think I’m going to try that next time I’m feeling down instead of all the other things I do; my first thought should be to go to the Bible. It’s really just a habit.
p.s. I do find praise and worship contemporary music full of Scripture, however. So I guess I am getting a little bit of biblical “medicine!”
10. Ugh! I answered all of the “10 questions” about midnight last night….and I see here that I obviously forgot to “submit”! I’ll try again, but I kind of agonized over this because I just don’t see “deep calling to deep” quite the same way as we are looking at it here…..as many times as I read it last night, I KEPT coming back to this phrase reading as specifically the “twin deeps” being the crushing difficulties and trials of this life – that the LORD has brought! Much like Job. Or maybe Lamentations, chapter 3. Strangely, I DO find comfort in this way of seeing this Scripture…..for it brings me back to “why”? The big picture and that the story is really, ultimately, about God and not me! It presses me in to Him to trust that His Word is true and the breakers rolling over me are NOT the end of the story! Sorry, but that’s just where I landed on this one……
10A. Well, the first thing I thought about watching these rolling, crashing waves was watching the movie “The Perfect STorm” many years ago…..their story when faced with such waves did not end well. Deadly.
10B. Pairing v. 7 with v. 8 to see the positive: Hmmmm…He is WITH ME. Makes me think of the fearful disciples and Jesus sleeping in the boat with them. At the RIGHT moment, I can trust that He will rise and say “Peace, be still”. Oh, the steadfast love of the Lord (v. 8)!!
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it?
Why are you feeling discouraged? Why is my heart sad?
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul?
What are you pressing into other than the Lord for support and sustenance? Where are you placing your trust and confidence?
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do?
He tells his soul to return to the Lord…to rely and trust in the Lord’s love for him and the Lord’s provision; to praise and worship the Lord as he should.
10a. In verse 7 we have the famous phrase “deep calls to deep.” What water image is it paired with? What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?”
The water image is “raging seas.”
Hum…what do I know about the roar of waterfalls…? The water continually flows, with no apparent beginning or end; the rushing water flows over whatever is in its path often smoothing the area over time and ends up in a collective pool; there is beauty yet force and power in the water flowing.
(my mind isn’t making the connection…I’ll have to ponder this further throughout the day, and read others comments after work tonight.)
10b. The fourth water image is both negative and positive, though I for so long only saw it as negative. Find it in this same verse.
“as your waves and surging tides sweep over me”
Oh yes, the negative is easily seen, the feeling of being overwhelmed by the “waves and surging tides.” Yet I can see the positive…sometimes what appears to be the worst of circumstances turns out to be a blessing in disguise. Sometimes those “waves and surging tides” are needed to bring about a greater good, to turn us away from a path we should not be walking and direct us elsewhere, etc.
1. In Psalm 42:1-2, what is the image? What do the streams of living water that the psalmist is trying to find represent?
A Deer desperately dry desiring or ‘panting’ after water to satisfy her thirst and is panting because she isn’t there yet..so is the Psalmist panting and thirsting after God-dry because he isn’t there yet. I like how he says, ‘the living’ God..He is alive and present. I am thinking this passion isn’t just to acknowlege Him or just to casually be with Him, but the panting is a drive so strong to be in His presence as strong as a camel in heat.
2. The psalmist says he is not finding God. He is like a deer dying for water who comes all the way down from the mountain and finds the riverbed dry. What water image is in verse 3? How is this a true lament?
ooo…haven’t seen this before. I may be off but the water image could mean that sorrow is his food instead of God and He is going deeper down into the pit because his sorrow is telling him that God isn’t going to rescue him. That perhaps God doesn’t care and is leaving him to rot in his suffering. This is true lament because he sees what is really going on inside his soul and is expressing it to God.
3. Look carefully and see if you can find hidden in this verse 3 the classic signs of depression. (weeping, not sleeping, not eating).
1. V3a: Being sad day and night..not just occasionally which is normal. A sign of depression is that it is ongoing.
2. V3a “tears are food” : Not caring about anything day and night and either running to food for comfort or avoiding it and just laying there not able to function normally.
3. V3b: Thoughts are sunk too..you feel alone and believe the lie that God doesn’t care..He is distant. There are tons of other lies too..He doesn’t love me, I have failed and therefore He won’t come, etc..this tends to feed the lies more and your soul goes further into the pit and it feels this horrible sting of pain that won’t go away. The things you run to for satisfaction begin to not comfort anymore and you go further into the pit.
4. Find another causal factor to depression in verse 4.
To focus on the past-how you served God and were in his presence and then comparing it to now. Instead of seeing this as a valley or a a gift He wants to use to draw you closer than you were in the past.
So many of you have pain from church — Beth, Joanne, Wanda — a few thoughts.
I know how it is to feel lonely at church — more so since Steve is not with me. People often are not other-centered, and I continually need to play the host in conversation. The church is made up of sinners, and we fail. I often fail as well to be alert to the lonely… I think Psalm 42 is relevant, telling us to put our hope in God. One of the reasons he is so depressed, however, is that he is outside of fellowship — not his choice — he seems to be isolated somehow…I think we keep trying to be in fellowship, to love, to give grace, to be the host in friendship — even if we are new, alone, and afraid.
I know The Gospel Coalition has a church directory — there might be one in your area — though I know that is not a guarantee that it will be wonderful.
And I think it is also wise to find meaningful fellowship in small groups — Bible studies — and we love having you here!
Dee, this is speaking to me: “One of the reasons he is so depressed, however, is that he is outside of fellowship — not his choice —” Thank you!—- helps me sort through when I am outside of fellowship and various reasons, even the degree of choice. When I was caring for mom, I frequently missed — and though I had some choice, it was very, very difficult. When I am out of town for work, I do have some choice about where I am employed. Missing once in awhile (even for poor excuses) doesn’t put me out of fellowship, but if I don’t speak truth to my soul, it easily can turn into habit that does put me out of fellowship. As I think through times I’ve missed regularly (when I have been in town), I’ve been sick for weeks — or very depressed (have probably only had a couple of episodes since I’ve lived here). And during those prolonged illnesses, I could see God’s hand — the Spirit must’ve prompted other people to reach out, send cards, etc. I remember asking for forgiveness in church (had only lived here 3-5 years) when I was finally coming out of an episode of depression for withdrawing and not letting people know, and the support was there. It was GOOD that people acknowledged they didn’t know what to do (nothing they could do).
I will pray for the Lord’s prompting to know who is isolated because they may not be able to take the initiative to participate in fellowship. Plus, I will ask the Lord to help me be more open to groups that are not “my style.” It’s amazing to me that when I had almost NO choice, I appreciated ANY form of worship and fellowship with people from ANY background. When I have many choices, I get picky. (Definitely speaking truth to my soul now). This is convicting because I do love diversity, but I get stuck in a rut (not sure how much I love doctrinal diversity though 🙂 )
And I agree that the statement Renee highlighted is very meaningful. For me, personally, being ‘out of fellowship’ during my recent years is due to changes in theological views and the way God has drawn me to a kind of worship and reverence that no longer exists at my long time church. The casual, joking around, media laden service does not speak to my soul…..except to cause me consternation. I still make many attempts but I also stay in the periphery. So, while these verses about no longer going with joy to the house of the Lord DO hit home when I walk through the doors of my own church…..in a larger scale, do not fit. I DO love to be in fellowship. Here. In my Bible Fellowship group at church. And with my close friends one on one or in small settings. And, when I can…..in visiting another worship service if I am out of town and with a friend. So, for me…….it’s not hurt over feeling lonely as as my closest friends are at my church……but it’s a parting of theological and practical worship philosophies. I can’t quite put my finger on how to say it……but it seems that the ‘solution is the problem’! Interestingly, my pastor’s wife sent my husband and I an email yesterday and said that our fellowship leadership team is committing to pray for each person in the group and she is praying for me……and she asked for requests. Quite timely. She ‘knows’ from previous conversations about how we differ in our views and I truly do appreciate her. This is an interesting ‘twist’ and I know it has not gone unnoticed by our Loving Lord……
11. Don’t know how I’ve missed this piece before, but it will stick with me throughout this challenging day, I’m sure. “Come Lord Jesus, Come”
Right out of the gate “all who are thirsty” brings to mind the panting deer in dire need of the stream – water. Desperate. “dip your heart in the stream of life” – goosebumps! Others (Jill!) have brought out how very vulnerable the deer is when bending down to drink deeply of the water…..the danger doesn’t necessarily cease or the pursuers stop pursuing! Nonethless, the deer simply cannot go in without the water. TRUST is required. That drinking deeply of the water will bring renewed vigor and LIFE. Of course the song mentions “deep to deep” (whatever your interpretation of that may be! 🙂 ) several times…..oh how I love this: “nothing but your will for me , I am only free when you Come Lord Jesus, Come”. Again , in times of utmost distress, mourning, oppression, we cry “come Lord Jesus, Come”….and we throw ourselves upon His mercy.
“He who testifies to these things says ‘Surely, I am coming soon.’ Amen. ‘Come Lord Jesus!’ ” Revelation 22:20
5. Often, when facing an enormous trial, we want to withdraw. Have you felt that way? Why is that one of the worst things you can do?
Yes, I have felt that I wanted to withdraw – completely. And I have, at times, withdrawn.
The analogy/truth that immediately came to my mind when I read this question, is that we are in a battle against a vicious enemy. My dad served in Korea in the early 50’s. I have heard so many personal war stories from his time there. I also love to read history and I’ve learned that in war, it is life-threatening to be cut off from the rest of your platoon. That’s when you are more vulnerable to the enemy force. And, if you are alone and wounded there is no one to administer much needed medical attention.
So it is spiritually. We need each other. As believers, we are all in the same battle and we must find others that we trust enough to lock arms with. And sometimes when we have been deeply wounded, we need stretcher-bearers to get us to the primary physician who knows our hearts and is always our ultimate healer.
Nila Love that. The analogy of your father in battle is such a perfect one.
“So it is spiritually. We need each other. As believers, we are all in the same battle and we must find others that we trust enough to lock arms with. And sometimes when we have been deeply wounded, we need stretcher-bearers to get us to the primary physician who knows our hearts and is always our ultimate healer” .
A book that made a big impact on me on this very subject was “The Bait Of Satan” By John Bevere. I so recommend it
So good, Nila. And two thoughts. You are blessed to have your dad’s stories. So many folks who came back from serving in wars (maybe especially WWII) never spoke of it. I know many family members who wish they knew more. AND…..this post just made me think about your dad and his battle with Alzheimers. How is it going? I know you have so much on your plate.
One of my favorite devotionals is Streams in the Desert, Thinking on Deep calls to Deep I wanted to share the reading from yesterday to give new thoughts to what the Lord speaks to us regarding that. I pray it bless you as much as it blessed me and oh so true. For in the Storms of life which we all go through we have a loving Father there to bring us to that place of peace. I am praying for all who need this today. I may not know your name or your circumstance but the Lord does and for that I have peace.
And the peace of God, which transcends all our powers of thought, will be a garrison to guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus” (Phil. 4:7)
There is what is called the “cushion of the sea.” Down beneath the surface that is agitated by storms, and driven about with winds, there is a part of the sea that is never stirred. When we dredge the bottom and bring up the remains of animal and vegetable life we find that they give evidence of not having been disturbed in the least, for hundreds and thousands of years. The peace of God is that eternal calm which, like the cushion of the sea, lies far too deep down to be reached by any external trouble and disturbance; and he who enters into the presence of God, becomes partaker of that undisturbed and undisturbable calm.–Dr. A. T. Pierson
When winds are raging o’er the upper ocean, And billows wild contend with angry roar, ‘Tis said, far down beneath the wild commotion, That peaceful stillness reigneth evermore.
Far, far beneath, the noise of tempest dieth, And silver waves chime ever peacefully, And no rude storm, how fierce soe’er it flieth, Disturbs the Sabbath of that deeper sea.
So to the heart that knows Thy love, O Purest, There is a temple sacred evermore, And all the babble of life’s angry voices Dies in hushed silence at its peaceful door.
Far, far away, the roar of passion dieth, And loving thoughts rise calm and peacefully, And no rude storm, how fierce soe’er it flieth, Disturbs the soul that dwells, O Lord, in Thee. –Harriet Beecher Stowe
“The Pilgrim they laid in a large upper chamber, facing the sun-rising. The name of the chamber was Peace.”–Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress
Thankyou Liz, for this entry from Streams in the Desert. Wonderful analogy.
My favorite devotional it has nailed it so many times:)
Great words in this devotional, Liz. Really like all three parts of it. It reminds me of a song that has become a real favorite:
My life flows on in endless song; Above earth’s lamentation,
I hear the sweet, tho’ far-off hymn That hails a new creation
Thro’ all the tumult and the strifeI hear the music ringing;
It finds an echo in my soul—How can I keep from singing?
What tho’ my joys and comforts die? The Lord my Saviour liveth;
What tho’ the darkness gather round?
Songs in the night he giveth.
No storm can shake my inmost calm While to that refuge clinging; Since Christ is Lord of heaven and earth,How can I keep from singing?
I lift my eyes; the cloud grows thin ;I see the blue above it; And day by day this pathway smooths,Since first I learned to love it,
The peace of Christ makes fresh my heart ,A fountain ever springing; All things are mine since I am his—How can I keep from singing?
I didn’t know this song, until my son was in high school choir and they sang it for their all conference piece. LOVE, love, love the words and the beautiful melody. The authorship and background seems a little ambiguous as I’ve seen several stories/versions. And folk singers have (Pete Seeger/ Enya) have used different words (which are also good!) Our high school used one of the popular version of the lyrics although every concert at our high school has had 50 percent clearly sacred and songs of worship. (and who says God isn’t in the public schools?!)
(sorry for the sketchy editing. I wish you could copy and paste lyrics without having to re-do them!
I also didn’t know that Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote poems of faith. Impressive words given the time she lived….when she wrote about slavery in the U.S.
6. If you are, indeed, withdrawing, talk to your soul and tell her some of the ways being with Christian brethren has encouraged you in the past.
Understanding that others are experiencing similar circumstances takes an element of the loneliness away. Somehow there is strength to be gained in this. The Lord made us to be relational, even with quite imperfect sisters and brothers in Christ. And I have to remind myself of this when I am disappointed by someone or when I am the source of disappointment to someone.
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it?
He asks himself, ‘what’s the matter?’
I love C.H. Spurgeon’s light on this:
His faith reasons with his fears, his hope argues with his sorrows…….
And Spurgeon concludes:
If every evil be let loose from Pandora’s box, yet is there hope at the bottom. This is the grace that swims, though the waves roar and be troubled. God is unchangeable, and therefore his grace is the ground for unshaken hope.
1. In Psalm 42:1-2, what is the image? What do the streams of living water that the psalmist is trying to find represent?
“As a deer pants for water…” The God of All Comfort brought such depth to this psalm for me. The graceful deer panting for the Living Water to nourish its soul. Two things strike me this time—in order to thirst for something, we have to have previously tasted it. He loved us first and we tasted, and so now we crave that love. I am also reminded of Jesus’ words on the cross. “I thirst.” As Jesus faces the devastation of separation from God, His Spirit cries out—painting for us the picture of true longing to be filled with Living Water.
2. The psalmist says he is not finding God. He is like a deer dying for water who comes all the way down from the mountain and finds the riverbed dry. What water image is in verse 3? How is this a true lament?
His tears, desperate cries, have been constant, and the only thing to fill his body. He searches for God’s presence—he has known it before and will not be satisfied with any other food or drink until he has it again. Again, I also think of the Cross ‘My God, why have You forsaken Me?’
3. Look carefully and see if you can find hidden in this verse 3 the classic signs of depression. (weeping, not sleeping, not eating).
He is not eating or sleeping—crying uncontrollably, and his mind has fallen into a pit of despair leading him to question God.
4. Find another causal factor to depression in verse 4.
He used to enjoy fellowship and singing but now he has withdrawn, retreated into isolation from other believers.
5. Often, when facing an enormous trial, we want to withdraw. Have you felt that way? Why is that one of the worst things you can do?
I do tend to want to withdraw—though not so much from the Lord, but sometimes the audience of others feels like too much. Yet even in my tears along with the Lord, I know I cannot stay there. As we see in Psalm 42, our thoughts become muddled when we are hurting and alone. God designed us to be a Body—dependent upon one another. When we retreat, we not only hurt ourselves, but the Body as well. And when we cut ourselves off from the Body, we are more vulnerable, open to the Enemy’s attacks—on our minds, our bodies. I remember just after my Dad dies, I stayed in town with my mom for the following week, and was not emotionally prepared for the non-stop flow of people in and out of our home, bringing food. I remember saying to my mom ‘can’t we make them stay away for a little bit?’ and she answered that they needed to do this, and we needed to let them. I realized later though, as I can remember seeing people I had known since I was born, offering hugs, shedding their own tears, it was good. It was healing. As good as isolation can sound, I don’t think it can heal the soul they way fellowship does.
6. If you are, indeed, withdrawing, talk to your soul and tell her some of the ways being with Christian brethren has encouraged you in the past.
For me, it is often just showing up. Take the step, go to Church even though it was the 9th married Mother’s day that I was child-less….(though I did let myself off the hook a few of those years!). But what never seems to fail to lift me is music. Whether at Church, or just CD’s at home—it reaches to my soul when I am too weary for words, and stamps His truth into my pain.
Elizabeth ~ Loved this: But what never seems to fail to lift me is music. Whether at Church, or just CD’s at home—it reaches to my soul when I am too weary for words, and stamps His truth into my pain.
Me, too! This is so good, too: “For me, it is often just showing up.” Thanks, Elizabeth!
Yes! Music it is. No wonder Martin Luther said this:
Next to the Word of God, the noble art of music is the greatest treasure in the world.
Liz, I saw your question about FB earlier. Yes, you do have to be on FB. It’s possible to be somewhat private on FB (if you email me, I can tell you more). But you have to be careful (gulp!!) because it can be a huge time waster. The fewer FB “friends” you have, the less likely you are to get sucked in to reading all sorts of posts. If you can limit yourself to the group, you will be fine. What is killing me now is that I am in several groups, but I don’t read as many posts outside of groups as I used to read.
Renee Thanks for reaching out. I had made a decision to not join facebook. I just know I cannot. I occasionally go on my kids and the next thing I know 2 hours have gone by YUCK! With my work I have too much computer time already. I am honestly struggling bit keeping up with the Blog. I am going to pray for the right balance. I do love the studies and I love the community here. The Lord will direct me I am sure.
If anyone ever wants prayer you do not need to give me the details. I will just let the Lord direct and I have comfort knowing He knows:)
10. As the psalmist (we aren’t sure if it was David, though Spurgeon says it reeks of David!) is far away from others who love God (he may be fleeing in the wilderness from enemies, he may be captured) he remembers times when he did have fellowship with brothers and sisters. He remembers how God was close to him. He is lamenting when suddenly God comes to him. In verse 7 we have the famous phrase “deep calls to deep.” What water image is it paired with? What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?”
Okay, one more attempt to address “deep calling to deep!” God is undisputably deep — His depth knows no limits, one cannot find His borders. We, at least at times, can get ourselves into situations where we are under deep water, where we feel we have sunk to the very bottom. It is then that deep God calls out to us who are swirling deep in the bottom of whirlpool.
10. The fourth water image is both negative and positive, though I for so long only saw it as negative. Find it in this same verse.
A. How could this water image be negative?
“All your waves and breakers have swept over me” seems negative to me. It is too much water — sounds like one could drown from it — scary water!
B. Verse 7 paired with verse 8 shows how this water image could be positive. What do you see?
Verse 8 says “By day the Lord directs his love, at night his song is with me….” Perhaps the scary water need not be scary if God is there directing us through it.
10. Funny!! “Spurgeon says it reeks of David!” Does this quirkiness/humor show up in other places in his writings?
In verse 7 we have the famous phrase “deep calls to deep.” What water image is it paired with? waterfalls, breakers, and waves What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?” I saw so many waterfalls this past summer, from all the melting glaciers. During the weekend, before I read these questions, I listened to brief clips of the noise of the waterfalls. Some smaller waterfalls sound like a fountain, sort of a big trickle. But I’ve also been to waterfalls that can be heard for miles. Waterfalls with a larger flow of water, that have more pressure, especially when the water drops a long ways are much louder. I imagine that some of the sound is the water crashing on the water and rocks below. (Ok, snooping here. I just read this online… reddit: emphasis mine)
Amazing… The noise is from the turbulence and the energy released from closing the surface as air bubbles of various sizes drift below the surface. When I feel as if I am about to drown in turbulent waters, God, in his grace and mercy, is sending me AIR BUBBLES to breathe. He is speaking both through the sound of the turbulence and the breath/life he is giving me to survive. I may feel alone as the surface closes, but God is there speaking and providing sustenance.
Renee This was great:)
“When I feel as if I am about to drown in turbulent waters, God, in his grace and mercy, is sending me AIR BUBBLES to breathe. He is speaking both through the sound of the turbulence and the breath/life he is giving me to survive. I may feel alone as the surface closes, but God is there speaking and providing sustenance”
Like the bubbles! (Kinda makes me want to go find some and blow them 🙂 ) Great information and imagery!
10. The fourth water image is both negative and positive, though I for so long only saw it as negative. Find it in this same verse. waves & breakers
A. How could this water image be negative? they can cause drowning. Undercurrents are dangerous. Tidal waves do tons of destruction.
B. Verse 7 paired with verse 8 shows how this water image could be positive. What do you see? “deep calling to deep” would occur here, too. AIR BUBBLES — the Lord is enough.
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it?
Why are you downcast, O my soul…why so disturbed within me? What is at the root of what is really going on? When I read this, not in a state of deep darkness, I think—‘in light of our eternal inheritance, what do you have to be down about?!’…but when I am IN “that place”, it is so hard to see clearly, eternally.
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul?
What one thing have you made an epi-desire? What has become more important to me than God? What “good thing” have I made an “I can’t live without” thing?” I also think—“What truth am I not believing about God in this? What aspect of His character am I not trusting in? When I fear, I know I am not believing He is all-good. When I feel alone, forgotten—I am not believing that he is always here, He is the God who sees me. When I look at things in my life and think-how can this be the best thing?’-I am not believing in His Sovereignty.
Elizabeth, I like your response to #8. Reminds me that Keller described idolatry as turning a good thing into an ultimate thing (or something like that!)
6. If you are, indeed, withdrawing, talk to your soul and tell her some of the ways being with Christian brethren has encouraged you in the past. I think I misunderstood the withdrawal. I saw the psalmist absence in the assembly as non-voluntary (as Dee pointed out) and so I was thinking spiritual withdrawal which I tend to do when overwhelmed or as an alternative to perseverance. We are new to the area and have not found a church. Our last church was so big that I never did find true connection there and was always bothered that it cleared out so fast after the dismissal. It was a good church but I never felt “planted” there. I have 2 friends that I see as my “Christian brethren” but they are long distance friends so it takes more effort to “be with” them. I do not connect with many well. I do not like small talk and find that, after awhile, unrequited vulnerability becomes embarrassing for both parties. The good of Christian brethren is being pointed to Christ, to see sin more clearly, supported through repenting of sin, supported in prayer always, and encouragement! I agree with others who have said that the intent behind people’s actions in regard to connecting and helping is more important than their actual actions.
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it? “Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me?”
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul? What do you really desire? Where do you find your hope? Where do you find your salvation? Are you seeking the wrong kind of water? What do you really want most? Why is your sight focused away from God? Have you forgotten who God is?!
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do? “Hope in God; for I will yet praise him, my salvation and my God.” A command to hope and to praise and to acknowledge where his salvation comes from and to put God back on the throne.
10. In verse 7 we have the famous phrase “deep calls to deep.” What water image is it paired with? What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?” The water image is a waterfall and then breakers and waves overwhelming someone. I was not so good as Renee to look it up (Renee – ;)) but what I know about waterfalls is that they are overwhelming both in sight and sound. In fact – you can usually not hear anything else around you when you are close to a fair sized waterfall. Waterfalls are also teeming with life because of the abundant flow and consequent mist that covers a lot of area. The sound can also resonate in your head and chest sort of overtaking your senses ….When deep calls to deep it is unignorable. Just like the roar of a waterfall. Just as the noise must be acknowledged so must the source.
Your comments to 6 where very insightful. Yes at the root out lack of perseverance is spiritual withdraw. I like that. I believe many people are right there. I think that those who have so much to give should find others to pour into. Jill you have so much wisdom and some woman in the church needs you. You would be a wonderful mentor to a young believer. A young mother or a single person needing connection. our culture is broken and you are grounded in your faith many many believers aren’t. The Church needs people like you.
Oh Nicole, such kind words. Thank you.
11. Watch this and comment on it. What images from Psalm 42 do you find? Other thoughts? This song came to mind as soon as “deep cries out to deep” was mentioned. Although after Song of Songs I have a different perspective of Jesus “coming.” He is always here, but I do see the wisdom in asking for the Holy Spirit to move and work, aka “coming.” Stream of life is always such a powerful visual for me. We humans understand thirst so much – even those who are rich and without want or “need” feel thirst from time to time – and to parallel that with a spiritual thirst and a stream of life, versus a muddy bog, doesn’t lose its power because of that identity with thirst and knowing how good it is to drink. Also the pain and sorrow being washed away is the wave that overcomes with his steadfast love.
12. Read Psalm 43. What do you see? The first thing that jumps out is “Why do I go about mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?” I do not know the literal meaning of this but today it spoke to me as a “who cares what the enemy does, my God is bigger” sort of message. Along the same lines as the “why are you cast down, O my soul?” Why do I get so upset at oppression from the enemy? I know the enemy is going to attack me and I know the enemy wants to devour and laugh at me falling on my face so why mourn? My God is great and good and in control. And all so often what the evil one intends for evil actually brings Him glory and is worked for good!
The net thing was this, “Send out your light and your truth; let them lead me; let them bring me to your holy hill and to your dwelling. THEN I will go to the altar of God…” His light and truth is what brings us to the stream of life. He sends His light and truth and THEN we respond by coming to His altar. This is gracious and lovely. He wants me, He sends it so that I am called away from my stone heart and come to the stream of life to wash away my pain and sorrow – He desires these things for me.
Lastly, the repeat of “Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? Hope in God, for I shall again praise him, my salvation and my God.”
13. What must we at times keep repeating the same truth to our souls? Because I forget. God forgive me, I am distracted by my own reactions and desires and I forget. My eyes wander and I stumble off the path. But OH! He sends His truth and light and then I come back to His altar and He always forgives and welcomes eagerly and continues to teach, and mold, and refine, and I remember all the good work He has done in me! He has rescued me from slavery and broken my bonds! I am not the same person anymore – to God be the glory! Even me repeating the truth comes by His prodding and whisper. He blesses me by convicting me to stop, pray, turn. Though I fail and still feel a failure I will tell His truth that He HAS done work in me, He is at work in me. I need to focus on the turning, not the falling, because falling will always be inevitable, but the turning is the imprint of Him on my heart, and the testimony that He is working. The turning is good, the turning is seeking Him, loving Him.
Jill…when I pray for you, I pray for friends and fellowship…..and I will continue.
Wanda, thank you! It is much appreciated.
Jill – my prayers for you echo Wanda’s. Those very things that you pointed out above in an earlier post….being pointed to Christ, being supported in prayer, recognizing sin, repenting of sin, encouragement…..I pray that the Lord will bring you to that place of fellowship with others in your new home area. Are you in Norfolk?
Jill, 😀 I looked it up because I realized I didn’t know much (anything?) about the roar of waterfalls 😉 Good description of how waterfalls can overtake your senses. “Just as the noise must be acknowledged so must the source.” So true — I’m thinking of glacier waterfalls — and also of a waterfall in a jungle; the sources were so different.
1. In Psalm 42:1-2, what is the image? What do the streams of living water that the psalmist is trying to find represent?
I believe that the water represent life. Just as water gives life to our bodies our Lord refreshes our souls and gives life.
2. The psalmist says he is not finding God. He is like a deer dying for water who comes all the way down from the mountain and finds the riverbed dry. What water image is in verse 3? How is this a true lament?
In verse three the psalmists only comfort are his tears. He’s starving, weak and pitiful. Broken and lost..
3. Look carefully and see if you can find hidden in this verse 3 the classic signs of depression. (weeping, not sleeping, not eating).
Totally depressed, he can only see his hurt. Fixed on it unable to move forward
4. Find another causal factor to depression in verse 4.
He’s devastated by his present circumstances and in his mind wishes he could be in the past. Where he was close to God, in the presence of the people (happy).
5. Often, when facing an enormous trial, we want to withdraw. Have you felt that way? Why is that one of the worst things you can do?
As I was going over chapter 42 I recognized myself in it (probably to much). I sat hear crying feeling his pain as if it was my own. I’ve been fighting to get back to where I once was for about six months. I resined from a position as a children’s pastor in September of this year after going on a two month sabbatical. Honestly I haven’t been able to sit through a whole service in almost 5 years. The last two years I taught every week except for six weeks after delivering my third son. I love the kids and I love to pray for people. I just have nothing else to give right now. There’s an amazing song by Jimmy Needham called Clear the Stage. Through this song God showed me that the church has become my god. I had people around me all the time now I’m home. It’s kind of hard to be at church now. Maybe I feel ashamed that I could keep it up?
I also want to say thanks Dee, Rebecca, Wanda, Jill, Liz and Nila for the kind things said about my last post. Thank you Wanda for reminding me that this season is hard but is the most significant one and to recharge once in awhile.:-)
Nicole, just happened to see this as I was “leaving.” This caught my eye: ” I just have nothing else to give right now.” I have been there. I was immediately reminded of this song, my mantra. He is our strength, not just the last bit of it to get us through, but ALL of it. Blessings, Nicole.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX0bhq6FM5g
Thank you
Jill, Thank you for this song. I listened to it slowly and needed it here today.
Nicole, thanks so much for your honesty and vulnerability. Wow! Jimmy Needham’s song Clear the Stage is really powerful. Thanks for sharing that. Sorry that you are going through such a difficult season.
I’m glad you liked the song. In regards to my season light is on the horizon. The Lord is so good. I’m ok just growing. The Lord has big thing for me a my family. I will never be prepared if I dont grow. Just growing pains…:-) I’m really so so BLESSED!!!!
Nicole ~
Thank you for posting this song. I had never heard it and I understand how it must mean so much to you.
Tears here.
So good, thanks
Oh my, Nicole! That song IS amazing — spoke to me more powerfully than any other song I’ve heard recently. I’m so sorry that you are going through a painful time — and thankful you are seeing hope in and through Him. I’m also sorry I missed your earlier post (I’m so far behind reading posts that I finally had to give up in order to focus on the Bible Study — just sort of read where the page stops when I am scrolling between the questions and comment box — and it stopped where others were commenting on the song you posted!). Thanks so much for sharing this. I will be listening again… and again and again!
The song has such a powerful message. I’m so happy you like it. And thank you for your kind words.
Nicole – there was such a flood of responses to the song Clear the Stage that I knew I needed to give it a listen….only got the chance to do so late last night….OH – this one is going to be on replay for quite some time! It could be the theme song for DEe’s book “Idol Lies”!! I passed it along to my oldest son and he too, was blown away and wanted a copy of the words. Bless you for sharing! Within our little world here in MD, think this song is going to “go viral”! Talk about getting to the heart of the matter…. 🙂
10. The fourth water image is both negative and positive, though I for so long only saw it as negative. Find it in this same verse. “…all your breakers and your waves have gone over me.”
A. How could this water image be negative? Because his life is threatened. The first thing I think of is suffocating – not being able to breath. There is also a bit of an idol in my image in not being able to control what happens…
B. Verse 7 paired with verse 8 shows how this water image could be positive. What do you see? The positive I see is that unless I surrender all, my breath, my control, and He overtakes me I will not have His steadfast love or his song. When I succumb to His love and grace I become new – could there be imagery in here of baptism?! Living with Him is opposite of living with the world. He guides me and verse 8 implies that being overtaken by His waves and breakers is actually His steadfast love. Cool. I not only find the drink the psalmist was looking for at the stream but He gifts to me a wave so large that it overtakes me, which is so much more than the original desire, but it is His will.
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do?
Hope in God—remember all He has done, trust in what He will do.
10. As the psalmist …” What water image is it paired with? What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?”
Waterfalls… the echo—the calling back…Spurgeon says “As in a waterspout, the deeps above and below clasp hands” (Treasury of David) and “the great deep above stretches out its hands to the great deep below, and in voice
of thunder their old relationship is recognized;” (Sermon # 865). I am seeing something completely different than I have before (and for that reason I’m likely “off” here!…but here goes!) I am wondering if part of the “deep to deep” is both the broadness of His love—“as far as the east to the west”—the unlimited boundaries of His love, His mercy, His grace. And I think to—from the depth of Him, to the depth of our sin—He has bridged the gap, the Cross has done it, joined the deep to the deep. And in our depths of woe, He calls to us. of it.
OOOh—favorite song here came to mind! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aVWBSmghAs
From the depths of woe I raise to Thee, a voice of lamentation.
Lord, turn a gracious ear to me, And hear my supplication.
If Thou iniquities dost mark, Our secret sins and misdeeds dark,
O who shall stand before Thee?
To wash away the crimson stain, Grace, grace alone availeth.
Our works, alas! are all in vain; In much the best life faileth.
No man can glory in Thy sight, All must alike confess Thy might,
And live alone by mercy.
Therefore my trust is in the Lord, And not in mine own merit.
On Him my soul shall rest, His word upholds my fainting spirit.
His promised mercy is my fort, My comfort, and my sweet support.
I wait for it with patience.
Oh Elizabeth. I had never heard this song. I just sat here, letting it wash over me. Thank you.
Elizabeth – I was just thinking this evening that it is impossible to articulate the “deep calls to deep” represented by the waterfall – but I was wrong! Thank you SO much for sharing the Spurgeon quotes and then to link it to Him bridging the gap…lovely and yes, deep.
Wow! Love the imagery of the deep above and the deep below clasping hands. AND love the song! Thank you Elizabeth and Mr. Spurgeon!
Ooh, Elizabeth … I love the visual of the cross with breadth and depth
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it? Why are you downcast? Why are you so disturbed within me?
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul? I wasn’t in the study……so I shouldn’t even take a stab here…But, what I think I see, from a lamenting perspective is: “How can I find relief? Peace? Comfort?” “What is the source of my pain?” and “Why is this life so overwhelming me?” However….now that I’ve said that, I’ll be scrolling back to see what the real answer is!
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do?
~ Put hope in God.
~ Praise Him. (acknowledging He is both GOD and SAVIOR.)
~ Remember. (how He led, provided, was near….in the past.)
He is looking at the intimacy He once experienced with God. He lists physical places Jordan, Heights of Herman and Mt. Mizar. These are literal places. I’m sure there is more spiritual application that I don’t know.
Hi Wanda, I just wanted to say you are such a thoughtful person. The way you respond to different ladies posts. You think about what people are saying. Thank you.
I just want to add to something to what you said. When I’ve spoken to someone who’s just been back from Israel they talk about the physical land and it’s history. It changes people. What God did here and there. It’s amazing, and for the Israelites it was the same. There were memorials to God everywhere. When God did something he told His people to mark it. So the next generation would remember. It could have been that the psalmist was remembering what God did in these specific places. And for us we have to remember all he has done, recall on this “day” God delivered me “here” from “this” so our faith can stay strong.
Love the concept of “place,” Nicole — and how places and memories are related. (There’s a body of research related to “attachment to place” that I’ve found interesting)
It’s amazing how a smell or a object can bring us to a place in the past. We all need our memorial stones. Joshua 4:5-7
Nicole – I just wanted to extend my personal welcome to you here on our study blog – so GOOD to meet you and hear a bit of your story…..to see you digging into the Scriptures together with us – and, in trying to play a little catch up this morning and perusing some of the comments, I’m blown away by how many of of our group has been so TOUCHED by what you have shared . Amen!
Even more amazing to me…your comment about Israel moved me to tears. My daughter Jes and I are hoping to travel to Israel in the spring – right now, this is an enormous issue and looks like an impossible mountain (she has serious health complications, but I won’t bore you with the details right now! ). Still, the Lord is weaving together some “impossible” things that keep prodding me along in the planning stages. Some of the reasons for going are incredibly personal (we have graves to visit….), but it is my hunger for God that has been drawing me there for many, many years. I WAY never expected to log on to the blog this morning and see some comments about ISRAEL – and I am humbled and worshipping my Lord for meeting me here this morning through your words…..isn’t He wonderful??
I pray you can go. Israel is such an important place to so many people groups. I really really want to go to. We have many many friends who have been. Our pastors wife grew up in Israel. Her parent are missionaries to the Jewish people. I would like to go during Passover which is the same time as Easter (super significant)!! I will pray it’s the Lord will for you and your daughter to go.
I almost giggled when I read your kind comment this morning, Nicole. Because I woke up thinking about getting back on the blog and thinking that I had been way too visible…..commenting too often and telling myself to be less ‘verbal’ here. And then I saw your kind affirmation! I think I am just so glad I can participate all week this time, as my last two weeks have been very chopped up with travel. So…I might be making up for lost time! Ha!
Great points about the importance of place and memorials. It suddenly reminded me of when I met a Palestinian Christian from Bethlehem, a couple years ago. He grew up knowing all the stories of Jesus and always thought of Jesus as his near companion. But he ALSO got to walk where Jesus walked every day. When God really spoke to him about what Jesus taught on the Sermon on the Mount…..he went there to meditate and to be in that very place while he studied. THAT would be amazing.
Jackie! I so hope you get to go to Israel…..and I especially hope that it could be with Jes.
Wanda–I haven’t been able to keep up with responded to comments very well this week, but yours here was another I had to jump on & respond to! You could NEVER “comment too often”–I read your posts with ears ready to learn because He has gifted you with great wisdom–I actually shared something you said with my husband last night before bed…your trials have brought such beauty and wisdom, and I am so thankful you have been able to participate more this week, you are a gift.
Such kind words, Elizabeth. You have really encouraged me just now.
Good, you have really great things to share. I love all the images I get in my mind when meditating on scripture. Understanding the time, the people of that time and places it happened really helps….
In verse 7 we have the famous phrase “deep calls to deep.” What water image is it paired with? What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?” YOUR waterfalls. Waterfalls are LOUD, They are also strong and powerful, calming, free flowing, refreshing, frightening, life-giving and inexplicably beautiful. Waterfalls carve their own way through the rock. The rushing water leads and is in charge and yet it follows the previous path of the water that went before it. Waterfalls are perpetual. They happen, year after year when the snow from above melts and when the upper river gushes over the cliffs.
Since it has been noted that the deep calling to deep may represent the deep comfort calling to the deep sorrow, I see the attributes of waterfalls (and there are many more) paralleling with sorrow and comfort. Sorrow is loud and powerful. It is also frightening, somewhat perpetual and carves it’s own way in our hearts. True comfort is strong and loud and powerful too. It is also quiet and tender….but it is faithful. It continues perpetually. It is free flowing; able to meet us where we are, life-giving, calming and inexplicably beautiful.
Oooooo Wanda! I loved this “Waterfalls carve their own way through the rock.” Yes! He is the stone cutter – His love carving away the stone of idol in our hearts. Beautiful!
….and I like what you saw in my words, because I did not even see that depth of meaning, Jill!
6. If you are, indeed, withdrawing, talk to your soul and tell her some of the ways being with Christian brethren has encouraged you in the past.
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it?
Failure, failure, failure..
🙂
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul?
What is standing between me and God??
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do?
Remember who God is!!!
10. As the psalmist (we aren’t sure if it was David, though Spurgeon says it reeks of David!) is far away from others who love God (he may be fleeing in the wilderness from enemies, he may be captured) he remembers times when he did have fellowship with brothers and sisters. He remembers how God was close to him. He is lamenting when suddenly God comes to him. In verse 7 we have the famous phrase “deep calls to deep.” What water image is it paired with? What do you know about the roar of waterfalls that would go with “deep calling to deep?”
A. How could this water image be negative? It’s chaos, it’s pain, confusion
B. Verse 7 paired with verse 8 shows how this water image could be positive. What do you see? PURIFICATION!!!!!!
11. Watch this and comment on it. What images from Psalm 42 do you find? Other thoughts?
12. Read Psalm 43. What do you see?
His eyes are focused on the people instead of God. Once looks towards God he is refreshed. So so good!!!!
13. Why must we at times keep repeating the same truth to our souls?
Because life sometimes keeps throwing things at us. We have to stop looking at the situation, sometimes situation after situation and remember His truth. God will gives us everything we need in that moment. Just rest in Him.
Nicole……two things I really like here in what you saw in the water images. “Chaos” I thought of that, but forgot that word and I think it really fits. And then ‘Purification’. Oh….that is GOOD! We are washed by His blood and we are purified and refined by the trials; the waves and the breakers that wash over us.
10. The fourth water image is both negative and positive, though I for so long only saw it as negative. Find it in this same verse.
A. How could this water image be negative?
Okay….never mind that. I have no idea how that posted!
Was thinking more on deep calling to deep this evening… something about the deeper our pain and struggle the deeper His comfort and touch can reach. There is something about that that is so beautiful, that the deepest pain in our lives would also bring the deepest comfort, the deepest assurance of Him, the deepest touch, the deepest trust in Him who rules over all. It makes me look at pain and difficulty and long suffering differently. Some have shared this here from their own lives but the Spurgeon quotes of high reaching to low gave me new imagery…
Jill I can echo so much of what you said. That is why “Streams in the Desert” is one of my favorite devotionals. You will look at suffering in such a new light.
A. How could this water image be negative? Well, I spent quite awhile looking at some cross references to the water images this afternoon, so here goes: The verse says that “deep calls to deep in the roar of YOUR waterfalls. All YOUR waves and breakers have swept over me.” The thing that first stood out to me was YOUR. The waterfalls (life-giving and beautiful) belong to the Lord. But so do the waves and the breakers (frightening and devastating.) So, I had been having a hard time understanding how the waves and breakers sweeping over us come from the Lord’s hand. I did like both Jill and Renee’s responses to a similar question that Kerryn posed in helping me see that by God ‘allowing’ pain and trials, it really coming from His hand. Not just the suffering, but the fellowship of His sufferings and the gift that that is. These verses from Job also helped. In the rhetorical questions posed by the LORD to Job, in chapter 33: 7-11, the Bible says, “Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst from the womb? When I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, When I said, “This far you may come and no farther. Here is where your proud waves halt!” Wow. If I am seeing this analogy right, the LORD is reassuring Job that HE is in control. He made the seas. He keeps the seas. He controls the seas. And the waves cannot roll over me farther than He tells them to roll. So, I’m thinking that even though the ‘waves and breakers’ wash over me….God will bid them ‘Halt!’ and quiet the storm in His timing and His Sovereign wisdom. And THAT’S a positive image of the same verse. (and there were a bunch of other verses in Job, Psalms, Isaiah and Genesis that lent more clarity to me also.) In verse 8, of course, we see a clearer and more direct positive. The Lord is WITH us day and night. (even though our tears have been our food day and night.) And he DIRECTS His love to us. Doesn’t just randomly sprinkle it about. He deliberately directs and commands His love and His song to be with us. And the song is also a prayer to the God of my life. There it is again. As in verse 2…..‘the LIVING God’. Oh….I love that title SO much.
I am feeling a song coming on! “As a mother stills her child, Thou cans’t hush the ocean wild; Boist’rous waves obey Thy will when Thou says’t to them, ‘Be Still’! Wondrous Sovereign of the sea. Jesus, Savior, pilot me.” (and of course, the other two verses fit also!)
B. Verse 7 paired with verse 8 shows how this water image could be positive. What do you see? (see above!)
What according to vs 5 does he tell his soul to do? To put his hope in God and to Praise Him.
What do you know about a waterfall that would go with deep calling to deep? As others have already said waterfalls are loud and they have great power. They also have the power over time to cut thru rock. I think of the stony hearts we may have especially if we may be fleeing an enemy. When dealing with people who feel like enemies we have to keep our hearts well guarded against bitterness and resentment which are emotions that can harden us. We have to know who our real enemy is. I know the Lord wants to penetrate those hardened areas. That hardness also blocks us from drawing closer to the Lord.
10 What is the fourth water image? Breaking waves, also another roaring sound and they have great power
A How could it be negative? It has the power to destroy. I think of the power of a Tsunami or the crashing of waves in a storm. You could drown.
B How could this water image be positive? Sometimes (no many times) it takes the roaring crashing of a circumstance to get our attention yet in the midst of something that could potentially destroy us God is there
I was reminded of another sermon I had heard long ago also on water. Going out into the deep the Holy Spirit needs to take over. we can stand on Christ. He provides living water. From Ezekiel 47:3-12
And when the man went out to the east with the line in his hand, he measured one thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the water came up to my ankles. 4 Again he measured one thousand and brought me through the waters; the water came up to my knees. Again he measured one thousand and brought me through; the water came up to my waist. 5 Again he measured one thousand, and it was a river that I could not cross; for the water was too deep, water in which one must swim, a river that could not be crossed. 6 He said to me, “Son of man, have you seen this?” Then he brought me and returned me to the bank of the river.
7 When I returned, there, along the bank of the river, were very many trees on one side and the other. 8 Then he said to me: “This water flows toward the eastern region, goes down into the valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed. 9 And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes. 10 It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many. 11 But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt. 12 Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.”
And when the man went out to the east with the line in his hand, he measured one thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the water came up to my ankles. 4 Again he measured one thousand and brought me through the waters; the water came up to my knees. Again he measured one thousand and brought me through; the water came up to my waist. 5 Again he measured one thousand, and it was a river that I could not cross; for the water was too deep, water in which one must swim, a river that could not be crossed. 6 He said to me, “Son of man, have you seen this?” Then he brought me and returned me to the bank of the river.
7 When I returned, there, along the bank of the river, were very many trees on one side and the other. 8 Then he said to me: “This water flows toward the eastern region, goes down into the valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed. 9 And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes. 10 It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many. 11 But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt. 12 Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.”
I thought ba
10 What is the fourth water image? Breaking waves, also another roaring sound and they have great power
A How could it be negative? It has the power to destroy. I think of the power of a Tsunami or the crashing of waves in a storm. It could kill you.
B How could this water image be positive? Sometimes (no many times) it takes the roaring crashing of a circumstance to get our attention yet in the midst of something that could potentially destroy us God is there.
ck to a sermon I heard long ago about going out into the deep from Ezekial 47
Oh My Please forgive me I just took up so much space:( I went in to edit it but it still came out messed up. Time to unplug!
No worries, Liz! We’ve all had some undesired results of using the editing tool! Just chalk it up with the rest of them! Have to get to work….look forward to reading your comments later!
I’m having trouble getting on the blog in the usual way — am checking with David. Have wanted to respond to many of your comments.
Dee
11. Watch this and comment on it. What images from Psalm 42 do you find? thirst/weakness, stream of life, deep crying out to deep Other thoughts? “…pain and sorrow be washed away in the waves of His mercy, as the deep cries out to deep…” I LOVE LOVE LOVE this. When I think of streams, springs, and waterfalls, I usually think of fresh water — but when I think of waves and breakers, I sometimes think of salt water. I sometimes feel sticky after being in salt water, but for some reason, I think of streams as clean (even though I know they can contain organisms that make the water dangerous to drink). The water from the waterfalls I saw this summer was SO PURE, clean and refreshing. Purity, cleansing, refreshing — what Jesus gives.
Something I realized (again) tonight at class: Though I tend to be introverted (according to the tests 🙂 ), I typically am not shy. Although I often don’t feel like talking, I’m definitely talkative (i.e., motor-mouth) when I want to be. Unless I am (very) depressed, the two main things that I associate with withdrawal are mornings (when I was a kid, I used to build walls out of cereal boxes around my place at the table so that I could read the boxes rather than talk during breakfast; I guess this is nothing new 🙂 ) AND not speaking the truth to my soul — or speaking lies to my soul. I probably can’t do much about mornings; even when I go to bed early and get up early, my brain and mouth take awhile to kick in. This study has helped me think about what I AM telling myself. I easily can convince myself that I don’t like to be in groups of people, but THAT’S NOT TRUE. It is true that I do want (need?) time alone to recharge, but that’s not the same as disliking being in groups of people. When in a group, I usually am friendly and outgoing and enjoy other people (though I’m not fond of large social events). When I’m “there,” I don’t have trouble interacting with others; I like getting to know others and connect well. But … oh how I’ve told myself another story that often makes me dread going out.
Renee – laugh out loud moment for me!! First…Nicole had me in tears- the wonderful God filled kind….and next I’m picturing little Renee surrounded by her cereal box fort…..love, love, love it!!! And I so love welcoming Jesus into my morning….and then laughing and crying with Him as I read!!
Seriously, I can relate to almost everything about your second paragraph and appreciate the comraderie. I too, am very MUCH an introvert- but I’m not shy at all. I do love to be with people…..but oh, can I find a million reasons to cocoon away my life!! Fortunately, God has a way of bringing people by the farm if I don’t leave it often enough (since my work is here,it’s just ever so excellent to be here!)….some days this farm feels like an open house going on!! And I look back on those days and just LOVE how God moves through the eclectic group of friends and clients and neighbors ……the ordinary becomes His ordained ordinary. He is good.
Renee and Jackie……
And here I am, not sure I know the difference between being shy, or introverted….and I’m also not sure what I ‘am’! Maybe I should take a ‘test’. I’m sure there’s a million resources sitting on a shelf right next to me in my house (since my husband, the counselor/teacher….seems to have files and bookshelves full of that sort of thing) let alone the internet…..but I’ve still never really made the effort to figure it out. Never taken a Myers Briggs or anything. Maybe because I think…..’it all depends’ ! (I learned that catchphrase from Renee…. 😉 ) To be continued……..
haha… introverted means you get your energy/get recharged from being alone; extraverted is when you get energized/recharged from being around others (there’s probably a more articulate, slightly more accurate way to word it, but oh well…). And it probably does “depend” if you’re not on one end of the continuum or the other. But a person can be introverted, talkative, and not shy. Oh yeah, I’m sure your Mr. has access to a bunch of tests.
However, after teaching assessment for awhile, I’m not an overly strong believer in any “test.” NONE are 100% accurate, but sometimes they are kinda fun. Don’t get me going on reliability and validity 😀
Thanks, Renee! By that definition…..I am definitely an introvert. Unless you count books as people…..because I think that’s where I get my energy. Shy? It DEPENDS! (Where have I heard that before? I think a wise woman I know coined it on a blog or something.)
I too am an introvert…I can be outgoing and social, but it zaps my energy and I need that “alone” time to recharge…exactly what you said below to Wanda, Renee, about the difference between being introverted and extroverted.
Renee, I had to laugh when you mentioned assessment, reliability, and validity…I loved (LOVED) my social research course…it had a lasting impact on me. Never again after taking that course do I look at statistics or social testing the same way…I’m leery and questioning. I always look beyond the data to see how the testing was done, to see if it was done in a manner whereby the data is reliable and valid or merely to to justify something (think “spin”). I gather that we are on the “same page” in that regard, sister…:)
:~)
Don’t worry about it Liz…there is plenty of space. I enjoyed your comments and everyones!
Awe thanks Joyce:)
7. Now, in Psalm 42:5, the psalmist does something very wise. He takes his soul in hand and asks him a question. What is it?
What is wrong with you? Why are you so down?
8. For those who have been through our idolatry study, what do you think he is really asking his soul?
Why am I not being fulfilled? What’s missing in my life? I have everything I want/need, but life seems incomplete and hard now….
9. What, according to verse 5, does he tell his soul to do?
Shape up! Go to God and be fulfilled! Focus on Him and all will be well.
Renee, so good to see you again…:)
Bummer, I see this posted in the wrong place…my fault…I was having internet issues yesterday morning and my computer must have not reset to the bottom comment this morning.
12. Read Psalm 43. What do you see?
The psalmist is experiencing persecution and cannot sense the Lord’s presence. The psalmist feels alone and vulnerable. He is longing and pleading for the Lord’s presence and protection to return. He expresses his great longing to be in the Lord’s presence, to experience the Lord’s leading and guidance, to worship and praise the Lord. In verse 5 he speaks to his soul, asking why he has allowed discouragement to assail him and why he allows his heart to be despondent…his awareness returns to the Lord being his hope and consolation, worthy of his praise and honor, an ever-present light in the darkness. A confidence in the Lord returns. He remembers that despite his circumstances, the Lord is his hope and provision, his saving grace.
13. Why must we at times keep repeating the same truth to our souls?
It is easy to get beaten up by the world, to allow the circumstances of the world to overwhelm. It is easy to see all the turmoil and injustices and become despondent. So much in this world can assail and distract us… We must be persistent and adamant in remembering who is in charge/control, where our hope lies, and who ultimately wins the battle over evil…the Lord is our hope, our Savior, our provision, our EVERYTHING…in Him we have it ALL regardless of how things might appear in our human comprehension.
Testing — I think it may be a Firefox problem for now I am on with Safari. Do the rest of you see big spaces between some comments?
Dee, yes…I think the problem was with edits within a comment…no problem s with the blog itself. For a little while last night, I thought I didn’t have a comment box…but then found it when I kept scrolling down
Dee I am afraid I was the cause of that big white space I am so sorry:( I had copied and pasted something and for some reason it did it twice and then there was all that space. I went in and thought I fixed it in the edit screen but it did not. Please bear with me while I overcome my technical challenges. With Gods help I will get there:)
Liz, we really appreciate your contributions to the blog. Don’t let the technical glitches discourage you. We have all had problems from time to time. I am not sure if anyone has mentioned to you yet that those of us who used Microsoft Word to compose our answers to questions, and then paste it onto the blog, discovered that if we “copy” and then use “paste as plain text”, then all that technical mumbo jumbo and white space does not appear. I am not sure if this will help in your case, but I just thought I would mention it.
Dee – for a couple of months now, when I try to comment and am on Goggle Chrome, I have NO “submit” button anywhere near the comment box!! When I switch over to Internet Explorer, no problem. Maybe that’s just me, but it’s been consistently that way for quite some time!
Jackie, You are right. I switched browsers — and have had to refresh the page several times to make it possible to write in the comment box. Was on my phone before & didn’t think about that
Jackie…..ever since I switched to Chrome several months ago, the submit button is ‘half of a button’ to the right of the comment box. No idea why….but it works! Sometimes, it’s the normal button under the comment box.
Is it still a problem, Jackie?
Dee – all good, thanks!
3. Look carefully and see if you can find hidden in this verse 3 the classic signs of depression. (weeping, not sleeping, not eating). Yes, it seems like since he says his tears are his food that he is crying a lot and not eating real food. And since it says “night and day” that means he must be awake, crying much of the time and not sleeping.
4. Find another causal factor to depression in verse 4. I guess he is remembering better times of being in communion with others and now it seems he is not
5. Often, when facing an enormous trial, we want to withdraw. Have you felt that way? Why is that one of the worst things you can do? Oh wow, YES. I struggle with this ALL THE TIME! Even right now, a few days post surgery, I have had people wanting to come visit and I always say I’m not up for the visit (even though I’ve been on the treadmill and functioning pretty well!) because if I feel even slightly blue I just want to be alone and I have felt a bit down lately. Or, if I want to be around someone I only want it to be someone with whom I could feel comfortable just sitting with in silence and I really only have one friend like that and she lives a hour and a half drive away. I know it isn’t a good thing to do, though (isolate yourself) because I think the enemy is quicker to attack when he can get us isolated off to ourselves. And, obviously, we need other Believers to keep us accountable and sharpen us and encourage us (AND, when we isolate ourselves we also may be limiting some work that God wants to do in someone else’s life through our interactions with them or miss opportunities that we could truly be blessed by BEING a blessing.)
mary e.–I just saw your post in my email and had to come on here and respond–I SO related to what you wrote in “5” in my darkest of trials–especially the wanting to be with only those who will be OK with the silence. I have known that feeling of not necessarily wanting to be completely physically alone, but not wanting the (even “well-intended”) “words”. And then of course I thought how much deeper your trial and I felt this “urge” that you not be alone! I will pray for another kindred spirit, closer than the 1 1/2 hour-friend. Someone who will sit quiet with you and just be present. I gained a lot of wisdom from what you said here “when we isolate ourselves we also may be limiting some work that God wants to do in someone else’s life through our interactions with them or miss opportunities that we could truly be blessed by BEING a blessing”. I can attest that is very true in the ways He has used you here–modeled true faith tested by fire. (So all that to say–don’t retreat from the blog either! 😉
Thanks so much Elizabeth, for your kindness. I’m especially in a sad place right now because I continue to see some ideas in my church heading in a direction I can’t go along with, so feeling like it is time for me to find another place of worship and I’m literally broken-hearted over that. And for the prayer for another kindred spirit, oh YES! I have been praying for that for myself for a while now. Thank you SO MUCH! I’m adding my agreement!
Mary E., Your whole answer to #5 is so descriptive — of me, too. I smiled at the treadmill part — that you’re not up for a visit even though up for the treadmill and agree that it’s comfortable sitting with someone in silence when feeling depressed.
I think I have some kindred spirits on this blog. 😉
Yup 😀
Mary – God is so good to us. You surely DO have kindred spirits here. You cannot imagine how often the Lord Jesus brings you to mind….and I pray. As I’ve said many times, I feel such a connection with you as I walk through this dark valley (though unique of course, as is yours) with my daughter. Again and again, your courage because of Christ moves me in the deepest places of my soul. You are a gift from God to me.
Mary……I relate in some ways. After my first cancer surgeries, I forced myself to get out because of special events I couldn’t miss. But after my 3rd and 4th surgery…..I could not drag myself out. I could not face people. Did not want the questions. Did not want company. Our care director at church called to say she was stopping by and I felt bothered. Though she really had the sweetest intentions. And yet….I remember feeling ‘judgmental’ when a friend of mine stayed ‘hidden’ for weeks after another kind of surgery. Now, I’m back to remembering Shirley’s comment that we all have unique trials and also my friend’s words recently when she said in regard to a mutual acquaintance, “I have not walked in her shoes…..so I can not speak to how she’s handling this.” Maybe with enough reminders, it will sink in to me to love without assumptions with others are going through trials. I will also pray that you have someone to be near when you are desiring that…..
Thanks, Wanda. I so appreciate your prayers.
Mary – oh the sorrows you are being called to bear up under. Adding the church troubles to everything else…..years ago I had never realized how MUCH the local body meant to me until I saw it falling apart and splintering before my very eyes. I had taken the body for granted, for sure. I think so many here understand those tears you are shedding over it all….for it is so wounding – and JUST WHEN YOU NEED THE BODY OF CHRIST SO MUCH! Praying so much that the Spirit will rouse up just the right friend and/or fellowship for you there where He has planted you. Meanwhile, please stay here with us…..I need you so much! I so often turn to your comments to glean rich wisdom for the walk He is calling me to just now…..I’m so thankful beyond any words I know how to say.
Jackie, you are so kind. Thank you for your words of encouragement. I certainly glean much insight from your posts as well. And oh how I long to one day learn that your children are walking with Jesus, and I pray for your daughter’s healing from her cancer.