It was 1988. Steve and I, and our 12-year-old daughter Sally, were at our first Christian Bookseller’s Convention in Orlando. It was a huge arena with 350 booths. Many booths featured edifying books, Bible translations, and wonderful music. Others featured bumper stickers and t-shirts and Christian teddy bears that were cheesy, offensive, or theologically wrong.
Yet it was hard not to be a bit starstruck by all the famous authors and singers. Amy Grant! Michael W. Smith! Joni! R. C. Sproul! Philip Yancey! They were everywhere!
When we stood in line to get an autographed Living Bible from Kenneth Taylor, Sally was confused. She said, “But I thought God wrote the Bible!”
I had a table to sign “The Friendships of Women” for bookstore owners and their families. When a long line snaked up, I began to think maybe I was somebody. I needed somebody whispering the truth in my ear. “You are a sinner blessed by God.”
Sunday morning’s church service was one famous singer or rock band after another, complete with strobe lights and smoke.
What sobered us all up? R. C. Sproul walked out and began to preach on:
THE HOLINESS OF GOD
We were confronted with the truth of how holy was God and how sinful were we.
In Daniel 5, King Belshazzar gives an ostentatious banquet for a thousand of his nobles. They are all, including the wives and concubines, drinking from the stolen golden goblets from the Temple in Jerusalem. Suddenly fingers appear and write on the wall:
Mene, Mene,
Tekel,
Peres
Paige said that Daniel 5:6 in Aramic says his knots were untied — which means he soiled himself. That’s how scared he was.
Link to Paige’s lecture on Daniel 5:
Icebreakers:
1. What stood out from the above and why?
2. Denial is a strong impulse when facing what could be a hard truth. Share a time when you ignored a warning from your body, car, friends, or even the Spirit of God and truly regretted doing so. Or share when you didn’t deny it and were glad!
Act I: The Feast
3. Paige gave some background about the timing of Daniel 5 in comparison to Daniel 4, the contrast between the two kings, and the situation Belshazzar faced. What do you remember?
Manifestation
4. Read Daniel 5:1-4 and share what aspects of the feast stand out and why.
5. Listen to Paige up to Act II. The Fingers (Through the quote from Ernest Becker) and share what stands out and why.
6. Why did Paige say Belshazzar was showing off even though the Persian army was encamped around the walls? (She gave an illustration of a 97-year-old grandmother doing a kickstand at her grandson’s graduation party.)
Modern man is drinking and drugging himself out of awareness or spending all his time shopping, which is the same thing.
Ernest Becker: The Denial of Death
7. Comment on Becker’s quote. Do you think you are in denial of your coming death?
8. Are you applying Psalm 90:11-12 to your daily life? Could you specifically share how you are doing this?
9. Paige said, “The emptier I know myself to be, the more ready to showcase meaningless privilege.” What did she mean? Can you think of an example of this from your life to share?
Act II. THE FINGERS
Agitation
10. Read Daniel 5:5-16 and share what stands out and why.
11. Listen to Paige up to Confrontation (following the story of the 9-year-old spilling nail polish) and share what stands out and why.
12. What was usually on palace walls? Significance?
13. Why does Paige object to the phrase “God showed up?”
14. How did Paige’s mother make the drunken cousin face reality?
15. She told a story of a professor who drew a hook on the blackboard, would try to hang his coat on it, and it would fall down. He said, “One day it is going to stay up.” Paige said just as we think we can make imaginary things real, we can make real things imaginary. What examples can you think of from others or even yourself?
16. Why does Paige think is behind the deconversion stories? What do you think?
17. Why doesn’t the king call on the gods he has been toasting? The point?
Confrontation and Declaration
18. Read Daniel 5:17-29 and share what stands out and why.
19. Listen to Paige until after she talks about R. C. Sproul and The Holiness of God and Jonathan Edwards and share what stands out and why.
20. Compare Daniel 5:22-24 with Romans 118-20. How is the king an illustration of the truth stated in Romans?
21. Is Daniel confronting the king about his drunkenness or orgies? Then what? Application to your life?
22. The words on the wall all have to do with weights — not about perspective, but facts. The King has failed to worship the One True God. That is a fact. Mene, mene means numbered. Paige sang a song by Rent. (If you want to hear it go to the bottom of the blog.) Tekel means weighed. What was Paige’s point about her story of distress over her son’s birth weight loss?
23. What false scales do you measure yourself on? How can you change your thinking?
The reason we feel that divine wrath can be easily overstated is because we do not feel the true weight of sin. You will never make yourself feel that you are a sinner because there is a mechanism, as a result of sin, that will always be defending you against every accusation. We are all on very good terms with ourselves. And we can always put up a good case for ourselves. Even if we try to make ourselves feel that we are sinners, we will never really do it. There is only one way to know that we are sinners and that is to have one dim glimmering conception of God.
Martyn Lloyd Jones
24. Comments on the above?
Invitation
Whenever God brings us to the end of ourselves…it is a favorable moment. As Augustine said, I would be undone if I had not been undone; I would be ruined if I had not been ruined. God orders lesser afflictions that we may escape the greater.
Ralph Davis
25. Comments on the above? Can you share a time God brought you to the end of yourself and now you are glad?
26. Joni Eareckson said that her first round with cancer focused her like nothing before. She basically does not have a conversation with somebody without letting them know sin kills, hell is real, and Jesus came to save you. How could you better tell people the truth?
27. I thought Moms might comment on her illustration of a child saying “You are shaming me” and her response “I am parenting you.”
Act III: FULFILLMENT
28 Read Daniel 5:30-31 and share your thoughts.
29. Listen to the end with Paige and share what stands out and why.
30. How did Jesus reverse the order of the feast, the fingers, and the fulfillment?
31. What is your take-a-way and why?
Link to Song by Rent
85 comments
Icebreakers:
1. What stood out from the above and why? – It’s so easy for us to want to have the notoriety from others, it’s so easy to think that the grass is greener in someone else’s yard. But what truly matters is feeling the presence of God in our lives. The cheers of others will fade away, but God will never stop cheering for us. My friend just sent me a quote yesterday, that was in the pastor’s sermon back in Indiana and it made me think. From ‘John Piper’s God is the Gospel’ the pastor quoted “The critical question for our generation – and every generation – is this; if you could have heaven, with no sickness, and with all the friends you ever had on earth, and all the food you ever liked, and all the natural beauties you ever saw, all the physical pleasures you ever tasted and no human conflict or no natural disasters, could you be satisfied with heaven, if Christ was not there?” It made me wonder if I really am looking to see Jeus in heaven, or all the other things that would make me happy. Am I looking to just have a beautiful life, or an eternal beautiful life with Jesus. I really need to not focus on the praises of others and humble myself to Jesus.
2. Denial is a strong impulse when facing what could be a hard truth. Share a time when you ignored a warning from your body, car, friends, or even the Spirit of God and truly regretted doing so. Or share when you didn’t deny it and were glad! – My warning came from friends who knew of my first husband. They were trying to tell me to stay away, but I didn’t see anything wrong with him. He was truthful when he told me things. Well, that was a lie. He was not truthful, he was not faithful, and it all ended in divorce with a very stressful life of badgering and more lies. The only blessing that came from that time are my two boys. They suffered along with me, but God has truly blessed us all in the end.
Such a sad story, Julie. So glad you have your boys though!
I am so sorry that you had to endure such heartache, Julie. So thankful to God for His never ending grace that has given your family a beautiful way of healing this most difficult pain.
Julie, I’ve never heard the John Piper’s quote, but I have often thought about the fact that when most people talk about heaven they mostly focus on being with their family members and having no pain or sorrows. Jesus is a bonus, but not the main focus.
Dawn, once I heard that’s what I started thinking too. What do I look forward to? Something to definitely think about.
1. What stood out from the above and why?
I love the book “The Holiness of God,” by Sproul! So good! Here is a link to purchase.
https://www.ligonier.org/search?query=the%20holiness%20of%20god
I just looked and I have this book and Gentle and Lowly in my Kindle app. YAY
Yay!!
Act I: The Feast
3. Paige gave some background about the timing of Daniel 5 in comparison to Daniel 4, the contrast between the two kings, and the situation Belshazzar faced. What do you remember? – It’s giving us a fulfillment of God’s promises through his people. The judgement is in Daniel 5. It’s 22 years after King Neb’s death. King Bel is reigning in his father’s place while he is away. Chapters 4 and 5 are reciprocal chapters. Two equally evil kings are talked about with shocking messages and two very different responses. One response is humbled (King Neb) and one who ignores the Lord (King Bel)
Manifestation
4. Read Daniel 5:1-4 and share what aspects of the feast stand out and why. – They had no thoughts to using stolen items to have a drunken party. And everyone, nobles, wives, concubines, every one of them were giving praises to these gods of all the stolen items.
5. Listen to Paige up to Act II. The Fingers (Through the quote from Ernest Becker) and share what stands out and why. – King Neb built an empire and King Bel threw a party. He was all about himself and his status as a person. He wants people to think he is more powerful, by showing up his father, King Neb. He was insulting God by using the stolen items and praising his gods.
6. Why did Paige say Belshazzar was showing off even though the Persian army was encamped around the walls? (She gave an illustration of a 79-year-old grandmother doing a kickstand at her grandson’s graduation party.) – He didn’t care about what was happening outside the walls. He threw a party because he could. He was showing off because he couldn’t do anything else. The grandmother story was so sad to me. How embarrassing. She was able to do those things, but it doesn’t mean she should have been. ICK!
Modern man is drinking and drugging himself out of awareness or spending all his time shopping, which is the same thing.
Ernest Becker: The Denial of Death
7. Comment on Becker’s quote. Do you think you are in denial of your coming death? – I was a bit confused by this, but I think it might be saying that we are so concerned about what this life here on earth is giving us, that we have no concern about our eternal life? We live our lives like we will never die, that it doesn’t matter how blind we are to the sin we are doing.
8. Are you applying Psalm 90:11-12 to your daily life? Could you specifically share how you are doing this? – I would have to say I am but not well. I try to live a godly life that is pleasing to God and that will glorify me, if someone is watching or listening. But my attitude and how things come out of my mouth are not always pleasing. The tone used is not always gentle, and this is something I need to work on more. I do know my life on earth is numbered and only God knows when it will be over, but I have a part to play in this as well. I need to take care of what was given to me, and that includes my body, my family, my friends and all material things. I need to be uplifting and not condemning. I need to be a good steward of everything and cherish His gifts.
9. Paige said, “The emptier I know myself to be, the more ready to showcase meaningless privilege.” What did she mean? Can you think of an example of this from your life to share? – I think she means that when we get to the point of knowing we are nothing, then we try and make ourselves look like we have it all together to impress others around us? Is that right? Not sure. If it is what she meant, I needed a car and I saw this one on the lot that was cute, red and a sporty convertible. A car I would have thought I never could have had, but it was a good price, not real expensive, but the name was known to others as expensive. We bought it and brought it home and I didn’t feel peace about the purchase at all. I tried to say it would be ok, but I kept getting this nagging feeling of dread. Well, God stepped in and saved me from what could have been a very costly mistake. The car stopped running the next day, had to have it towed back to the dealer to get fixed, got it back and it stopped again. I laugh now, because it was only God that humbled me by taking it away. I never did get to use it like I thought, but in the end, I’m glad He knew what was best for me. I now have a more reliable and safer car to drive.
I like your thoughts on how to better number your days.
I think Paige meant empty in an Ecclesiastes sense — feeling like she life is meaningless, God is far off, and she doesn’t matter to anyone, including God…so that changes the application — though your application for another meaning is still good. 🙂
Thanks Dee for the explanation. Yes, I do see how the answer would be different. I will have to think about this one now.
The Feast
3. It’s been 22 years since Neb died. The new king worships Egyptian god, Set, but lives in Arabia. His son is the regent in Babylon, Belshazzar. The Persian army has defeated the Assyrians and is encamped around the king.
4. Daniel 5:1-4 It reads like a drunken orgy to me. All the wine drinking and the inclusion of women in the revelry.
5. Act 1: the feast Nebuchadnezzar built an empire, and Belshazzar planned a party. I think that perfectly sums up the context of the feast. It’s astounding to me that Belshazzar, in the middle of a siege, has this huge party and goes one step further by using the sacred vessels for dinking and idol worship. He knows the history, but chooses to ignore it.
6. Why is he doing this? His overwhelming need to show his superiority. Crazy behavior.
7. I am not in denial of my own death. My time is in God’s hands, and I am content knowing that.
8. I’m sorry to say that I don’t apply me heart daily to wisdom.
2. Denial is a strong impulse when facing what could be a hard truth. Share a time when you ignored a warning from your body, car, friends, or even the Spirit of God and truly regretted doing so. Or share when you didn’t deny it and were glad!
Mine would have to be a warning from my body about a health issue. I am glad I listened and have benefitted from that listening. Thank You Lord!
1. What stood out from the above and why? Thanks for sharing about the long line at your book signing. It is so easy for me to get caught in believing what’s good is me and forgetting where all good and perfect gifts come from. (PS I miss your God Hunt question it’s always good to read how God has worked)
2. Denial is a strong impulse when facing what could be a hard truth. Share a time when you ignored a warning from your body, car, friends, or even the Spirit of God and truly regretted doing so. Or share when you didn’t deny it and were glad! Thing that comes to mind is when my hubby and son were fueding. A friend warned me not to be so quick to defend son that I was undermining my husband. She was right and I learned to back off.
Thanks for the reminder about the God Hunt question — I’ll try to remember to get it back in!
4. Read Daniel 5:1-4 and share what aspects of the feast stand out and why. Vs4 drinking from the gold goblets from God’s temple and praising gods of gold, silver, bronze, iron, wood iron & stone. Why. how easy it can be to look at worldly things and praise a worthless god instead of the one True God.
5. Listen to Paige up to Act II. The Fingers (Through the quote from Ernest Becker) and share what stands out and why.
6. Why did Paige say Belshazzar was showing off even though the Persian army was encamped around the walls? (She gave an illustration of a 97-year-old grandmother doing a kickstand at her grandson’s graduation party.) he gave a great banquet for over 1000 nobles and the enemy was there. He was showing off the wealth given him and ignoring the lurking danger.
Modern man is drinking and drugging himself out of awareness or spending all his time shopping, which is the same thing.
Ernest Becker: The Denial of Death
7. Comment on Becker’s quote. Do you think you are in denial of your coming death? Instead of facing truth we can distract ourselves with things that give us a temporary release or temporary high. No, but I may not be focused on it and what I can be doing to leave behind spiritual legacy.
8. Are you applying Psalm 90:11-12 to your daily life? Could you specifically share how you are doing this? Ouch, I do ask God to help me do the good works He’s prepared in advance to do. I need God’s help to show me His ways and point out thr right road for me to follow.
9. Paige said, “The emptier I know myself to be, the more ready to showcase meaningless privilege.” What did she mean? Can you think of an example of this from your life to share? I think it’s a look at me and see what I have or can do. I completed a half marathon in October and yes there was a part of me that liked the attention when people asked me about it ( I’m sure they were surprised I’m almost as old as dirt.) Isn’t that a pretty meaningless thing to do? Yes exercise helps with health, but how more excellent the people who are bring people to Christ.
Your marathon story made me smile. Reminded me of the verse in Timothy about how exercise profits some, but how much more…
Judy, I smiled as your old as dirt remark. What an accomplishment for someone who is ‘that old’.
Act II the fingers
manifestation: God shows Himself – revelation
agitation 10. Daniel 5:5-15 What stood out to me was the queen’s part in this drama. She was obviously not at the party, v.10 she enters the hall. She is a voice of reason, reminding Belshazzar that Daniel can interpret the message. She also supplies a history lesson. The second thing that stood out to me was that the kind KNEW about Daniel, but chose to consult his wise men instead. Belshazzar was scared witless. It reminds me that age and wisdom is not always respected by a younger generation.
11. What stood out to me was when Paige said that everyone knows what is true about God and eternity (Romans 1), but some choose to deny it, denial being the endpoint of self deception, It’s too terrifying to admit what we know is true, to be true. What she said about people fashioning God into their own image of what He should be. People’s opinions are what matter most to them.
12. Palace walls usually are covered in displays of trophies, armour, portraits, art depicting past victories.
13. God showed up is an implication that He just arrived, but if fact He is always there.
14. He had thrown himself on top of her in bed saying he was looking for a real woman. Paige’s mother quickly and calmly replied,”Well you found one.” Totally not what he was expecting and it shocked him into sobriety.
15. Imaginary things real: Everyone goes to heaven when they die if they were good people (and even some who were not).
16. I agree with Paige. Instead of talking about the God of the Bible, speakers/pastors twist God into someone who is more acceptable to people. They are worried that people will walk away, leave their congregation. I like when Paige said God is not worried about them walking away.
1Timothy 4:3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.”
17. Belshazzar does not call on his gods, because he made them and knows they are powerless. The point being that we, too, can make things god, that we know are not God (our cool friends, beauty, career, children, etc.)
Love this, Cheryl: God showed up is an implication that He just arrived, but if fact He is always there.
Icebreakers:
1. What stood out from the above and why?
This lesson brought bad chills to my heart and soul. Belshazzar is so arrogant. He brings the holy vessel from the temple to prop up his own ego. Belshazzar blasphemes God and idol worships with the holy temple vessels. He is spitting in the eye of God and toasting pagan gods. This made me physical sick to read and to hear Paige state what he did. He is crazed with his need for significance and superiority; totally self absorbed.
2. Denial is a strong impulse when facing what could be a hard truth. Share a time when you ignored a warning from your body, car, friends, or even the Spirit of God and truly regretted doing so. Or share when you didn’t deny it and were glad!
There have been times in my life when I have ignored a warning from my soul. When I have done things that are self serving or out of pride, I have truly regretted it ~ so much so that those things, though I have asked God’s forgiveness, can come back with a vengeance in my thoughts and bring me to my knees for my foolishness and the fact that I was dishonoring God.
Oh Patti — I think we both need to remember those things have been thrown into the sea of forgetfulness!
Yes, Dee! So thankful for our Lord God!
1. What stood out from the above and why? How we all need to remind ourselves that we are sinners blessed by God. Even the phrases we use to express success like, they finally made something of themselves or all their hard work finally paid off, puts the emphasis on us and not the one who has given us undeserved blessing.
2. Denial is a strong impulse when facing what could be a hard truth. Share a time when you ignored a warning from your body, car, friends, or even the Spirit of God and truly regretted doing so. Or share when you didn’t deny it and were glad! There was a time when I was putting an unhealthy importance on a friendship of mine. Deep down I knew that the Holy Spirit was telling me that I was idolizing my friendship, but I kept on with what I was doing. In the end, when it turned out bad, it took an emotional toll on me
3. Paige gave some background about the timing of Daniel 5 in comparison to Daniel 4, the contrast between the two kings, and the situation Belshazzar faced. What do you remember? That Nebuchadnezzar was warned by God and humbly turns to Him. Belshazzar was warned by God, ignored Him and was judged.
Interesting observation about phrases we use that credit ourselves!
Wow! Dawn! So true about those expressions of success! A good reminder that without God we are nothing!
Loved your reminder in question 1 Dawn. Need to really think how I phrase things.
3. Paige gave some background about the timing of Daniel 5 in comparison to Daniel 4, the contrast between the two kings, and the situation Belshazzar faced. What do you remember?
It’s 22 years between when King Neb dies and the king is now Belshazzar. During this time the King was actually Benitis (?) but he was in Arabia for 10 years (self-imposed exile), and Belshazzar, his son was holding court in his place back in Babylon.
4 and 5 are reciprocal chapters. Two equally evil kings, two equally vital messages from the Lord. Two equally opposite responses. Nebuchadnezzar accepts that God is ruler of all and Belshazzar does not.
4. Read Daniel 5:1-4 and share what aspects of the feast stand out and why.
The wives AND the concubines were present!
They are using the vessels from God’s Holy Temple (!). What a mockery. They praised their gods as they drank from them.
5. Listen to Paige up to Act II. The Fingers (Through the quote from Ernest Becker) and share what stands out and why.
Belshazzar has the feast because he can. He is showing off. Even though the Persian army is encamped outside.
6. Why did Paige say Belshazzar was showing off even though the Persian army was encamped around the walls? (She gave an illustration of a 97-year-old grandmother doing a kickstand at her grandson’s graduation party.)
Because he could. Should he have done that? No. He is an empty character here. He is sponging off everything Nebuchadnezzar built. Belshazzar has a party. He is jealous of his father. He is going to double down by using the vessels. He is crazy for his need of significance.
7. Comment on Becker’s quote. Do you think you are in denial of your coming death?
I don’t think I am in denial of my death. I wonder when it will happen, will I be old, or younger? Will it be disease or will it be a natural death? Will anyone care? Will I really see Jesus? Will my mom and dad be there? Lots of questions but no denial. It is life.
8. Are you applying Psalm 90:11-12 to your daily life? Could you specifically share how you are doing this?
Live in each moment! I notice sunrises/sunsets, I take my time performing tasks instead of just rushing through. The wind is strong here today. I’m listening to it as I lay in bed sick today. I enjoy the sunlight coming through the window and warming my cold body.
Celebrate even the tough stuff. This is hard. For example, bedtime and getting ready for school in our house is a huge struggle. Keeping the kids on task so they don’t get distracted. I hate bedtime. I don’t want it to be that way. I’m not sure how to change it either. We do all the calming activities before too; bath, book, song, prayer. It’s just hard. Teaching kids to be responsible is hard. I’m working on a way to make it better.
9. Paige said, “The emptier I know myself to be, the more ready to showcase meaningless privilege.” What did she mean? Can you think of an example of this from your life to share?
We all want recognition. It is human to have these thoughts. If we feel like we have no meaning in our lives, then we try to elevate ourselves. Yes, ugh, here’s a story:
A few years ago, I was nominated for New England science teacher of the year. I won (There weren’t very many nominations)! What made me mad was my school district had no idea. A female science teacher, in their district, who wins a regional, national science award, and they can’t be bothered to recognize me? I was upset. So, I pushed. I made them recognize me! I guess I should have just relished in the moment myself. I got a cash prize that had to be approved by the school board, so they would have known then, I suppose. But….
I get it, Laura! 🙂 That was a natural response — but today I bet you’d have a supernatural response.
Oh man, your #8 answer with the struggles. Their little minds have so much running through their heads.
I have found an excellent website that I have joined called “A Fine Parent.” The founders read books about raising children and them provide interviews with the authors to help parents. I would recommend it to any new parent; it’s really good!
After I posted this, I went to listen to a master class called conscious discipline. I now have a strategy I am going to try with the kids tonight at bedtime to see if I can change things up. A struggle is that our daughter comes upstairs after we have settled them and gets them wound up again. I have to deal with her too!
Laura — you do have double trouble!
Congrats on science teacher of the year. You have a scientific mind and yet you have an artistic side that shows in dance.
Thanks Judy. Science is actually hard for me. I wanted to be challenged so that’s why I decided to do it. English and history came too easy. I know, I’m crazy!
Laura, you are a very talented woman with a heart for God. Thank you for sharing so openly with all of us. You have a very full plate and I pray that the Lord gives you strength for each day. You trust Him so, even through many challenges. God bless you!
3. Paige gave some background about the timing of Daniel 5 in comparison to Daniel 4, the contrast between the two kings, and the situation Belshazzar faced. What do you remember?
Both kings were equally evil and self absorbed. There were two equally shocking messages from the Lord. There were two very different responses.
King Nebuchadnezzar ends up looking humbly to the Lord, who is there is His grace. King Belshazzar proudly ignores the Lord until the Lord comes in His judgment.
Manifestation
4. Read Daniel 5:1-4 and share what aspects of the feast stand out and why.
Pure evil. King Belshazzar brings out the gold and silver vessels, which King Neb had taken out of the Holy temple in Jerusalem. They drank wine and praised their false gods of gold, silver, iron and stone. Totally blasphemed God.
5. Listen to Paige up to Act II. The Fingers (Through the quote from Ernest Becker) and share what stands out and why.
Belshazzar is arrogant, puffed up and showing off, because he thinks he is in control. Behaved badly because he could. History shows he did nothing of value. He threw a party.
6. Why did Paige say Belshazzar was showing off even though the Persian army was encamped around the walls? (She gave an illustration of a 97-year-old grandmother doing a kickstand at her grandson’s graduation party.)
Loved her quote: “the emptier I know I am to be, the more ready I am to showcase meaningless privilege.” The grandmother behaved badly because she could, not that she should. What a poor example to her grandson ~or maybe that is the value structure she lived by.
Modern man is drinking and drugging himself out of awareness or spending all his time shopping, which is the same thing.
Ernest Becker: The Denial of Death
7. Comment on Becker’s quote. Do you think you are in denial of your coming death?
I am very aware that my life is but a fleeting breath. Psalm 103: 15-16 ” As for man, his days are like grass; As a flower of the field, so he flourishes. When the wind has passed over it, it is no more, And its place acknowledges it no longer.” I love this Ann Voskamp quote: “Think of Eternity and live backward from that.”
8. Are you applying Psalm 90:11-12 to your daily life? Could you specifically share how you are doing this?
The older I get, the more I realize the power of a day or even a moment. I pray that I can focus on my words and behavior with each and every person I encounter and each event that happens each day. Even when overwhelmed, I feel that the Lord can bring us blessings if we can keep our focus on Him. This is not as easy as it sounds, as we live in a chaotic world that has become more “me centered” each year and each generation. This whole study is bringing me back to my word for the year: “Abide”. How I need to stay on my knees and look to the Lord every minute! Lord redirect my eyes to You and You only. The distractions come fast and furiously.
9. Paige said, “The emptier I know myself to be, the more ready to showcase meaningless privilege.” What did she mean? Can you think of an example of this from your life to share?
When we feel insecure or insignificant, it is tempting to want to find some significance. Getting older is putting me in a very insignificant category and I am okay with that. I pray that I can do some small thing each day, to help a grandchild or a friend come to know the Lord in a fresh and meaningful way. I pray that I can have a positive attitude and use kind words, when I am tempted to do otherwise. I definitely do not want to be the grandmother doing keg stands! Lord help me to represent you well….and keep my lips closed when you know I will misspeak!
#9 Patti, you don’t want to be the grandma doing keg stands made me smile. I love your heart though, that you want your lips closed so you don’t want to misspeak.
From Patti:
I love this Ann Voskamp quote: “Think of Eternity and live backward from that.”
Act II. THE FINGERS
Agitation
10. Read Daniel 5:5-16 and share what stands out and why. – King Bel is terrified by the hand appearing but takes no heed about it. Also, he puts himself so far above everyone else that he doesn’t even know who is in positions in the kingdom. I would think he would have seen all that was done through his father’s reign, and all that Daniel relayed to them. But still they were oblivious to the power of God around them. I see too that they continue to call Daniel by his God given name and not the name assigned by King Neb. This shows that they know the power of God in Daniel’s life and that just renaming him doesn’t change Daniel.
11. Listen to Paige up to Confrontation (following the story of the 9-year-old spilling nail polish) and share what stands out and why. – God is showing himself in this section. I loved when she said that ultimately, we all know the truth about ourselves, and King Bel knew that the hand coming and showing up was not good news. Deep down he knew that the way he was living and acting was not what should be being done. I need to dig deep and find my real truth.
12. What was usually on palace walls? Significance? – They hold the memorable items of things that had happened. This is a wall that will always be seen, and this wording is among all the things that hold memories. It will never be forgotten and will forever be there on the wall to be seen by everyone.
13. Why does Paige object to the phrase “God showed up?” – She said that God is never NOT there and is always showing himself. He is always around us. She is fine if we know that He is with us always, but if we don’t understand it, we need to stop using that phrase.
14. How did Paige’s mother make the drunken cousin face reality? – She told him he found a real woman. LOL, He asked for something, and she provided him with what he was looking for or what he thought he wanted. LOL
15. She told a story of a professor who drew a hook on the blackboard, would try to hang his coat on it, and it would fall down. He said, “One day it is going to stay up.” Paige said just as we think we can make imaginary things real, we can make real things imaginary. What examples can you think of from others or even yourself? – For me, when I’m faced with something that is way out of my comfort zone, I tend to put off doing it, probably because of fear of failure or confrontation, both these I don’t like. Maybe it will go away, and I won’t have to face it anymore if I just ignore it. But it continues to come back in to sight. I can’t pretend something is not there that I need to face up to. I need to realize that the problems that come up I need to handle, but I only can do that with God.
16. Why does Paige think is behind the deconversion stories? What do you think? – I thought this part was good. We can try and imagine what we want in to existence by just thinking about it being true. But in reality, we can’t make anything be true if it’s not. We like to think we can just cancel things out that don’t line up with our way of thinking, including God. If we don’t like what he says or does, we can just not follow him. Our denial will pull us deeper into deception. Not a good place to be.
17. Why doesn’t the king call on the gods he has been toasting? The point? – King Bel knows that he made those gods and calling to them will not help the situation he is in. They are meaningless objects. I think the point here is that we may sometimes think we can change something we cherish to be more powerful than it really is, but we can’t. Nothing we create will ever have reign over God’s authority and we should never want that. God is our ultimate helper, healer and Saviour.
Loved your application to prof who kept hanging his coat on an imaginary hook.
Confrontation and Declaration
18. Read Daniel 5:17-29 and share what stands out and why. – WOW, God does not play around with our prideful ways. Daniel again shows great faith in God by relaying what the message that was written meant. King Bel is so arrogant that he thinks nothing bad can happen to him. How said to think that we are invincible, and no harm will come to us when we defy God’s Word.
19. Listen to Paige until after she talks about R. C. Sproul and The Holiness of God and Jonathan Edwards and share what stands out and why. – The writing on the wall is a public declaration. It’s there for everyone to see. King Neb was more personal. Only he knew what God was saying. King Bel was being called out in front of everyone. If we don’t listen to God, or feel the tugs from Him, we will be brought to our knees. God will humble us in whatever way He sees fit.
20. Compare Daniel 5:22-24 with Romans 118-20. How is the king an illustration of the truth stated in Romans? – He knows the truth and he knows that what he is doing is wrong. It’s not been hidden from him. It’s been in place since creation and he definitely saw what happened to his father, but he continues to ignore it and thinks nothing, or no one can take him down. But God will not put up with our ignorance of thinking we don’t know the truth when the truth has been set before us. Judgement will come.
21. Is Daniel confronting the king about his drunkenness or orgies? Then what? Application to your life? – I think he is trying more to make King Bel realizes that by worshipping the things stolen from God was not a good thing to do. I think Paige made comment to it as if he were spitting in God’s face. Like taunting God that he had what was his and putting those things higher than God himself. The application for my life, would be for me to really watch what or who I’m worshipping. What thing, or what person am I putting above God. None of these things can help me in the end. Only God will be able to save me. I need to appreciate the Giver over the gift.
22. The words on the wall all have to do with weights — not about perspective, but facts. The King has failed to worship the One True God. That is a fact. Mene, mene means numbered. Paige sang a song by Rent. (If you want to hear it go to the bottom of the blog.) Tekel means weighed. What was Paige’s point about her story of distress over her son’s birth weight loss? – These words were not nouns but written in verb form. Active verbs are always God, and the passive verbs are ours. She was concerned about her son’s weight because she thought he was smaller than what the hospital had said. But because of the scale was not right from the beginning, the truth of his weight was misstated. We need to make sure our weights, our truth is set right from the start. If it’s not, the truth will always be off, the right perspective of our thoughts and what we believe to be truth will not really be truth.
23. What false scales do you measure yourself on? How can you change your thinking? – Right now, I’ve been trying to figure out what I should be eating to make me feel good, to help me lose some weight. I’m using these things as an excuse to sulk. My ‘if only’ is making me feel that I’m not thin enough and if I was I would feel so much better. And yes I could, but I need to get to the point of pushing through those thoughts and find my healing and help from God. To be ok with where I am right now and think of what God has done for me and continues to do for me. I need to think of things from above and not what others may be thinking of me.
The reason we feel that divine wrath can be easily overstated is because we do not feel the true weight of sin. You will never make yourself feel that you are a sinner because there is a mechanism, as a result of sin, that will always be defending you against every accusation. We are all on very good terms with ourselves. And we can always put up a good case for ourselves. Even if we try to make ourselves feel that we are sinners, we will never really do it. There is only one way to know that we are sinners and that is to have one dim glimmering conception of God.
Martyn Lloyd Jones
24. Comments on the above? – I think this is true for so many of us, me included. I tend to think, well what I’ve done is not as bad as what that person did. But when I think that way, I guess I’m judging them in a sense that they aren’t who they should be. But God is the only one that can change hearts. He has made us to be like Him, and I can only reveal to myself the sins I do, whether big or small. Sin is sin and I am not sinless. I’ve been saved by the blood of Jesus, but my life still is not sin free.
10. Read Daniel 5:5-16 and share what stands out and why The queen knew about Daniel but the king didnt. Just curious how she knew and he didn’t Though I have read it was the queen mother. Someone with that much wisdom completely unknown to the king. How did he miss it and what was Daniel doing all those years.
11. Listen to Paige up to Confrontation (following the story of the 9-year-old spilling nail polish) and share what stands out and why. Her explanation of writing on palace walls.
12. What was usually on palace walls? Significance? Because the walls showed the grandeur of the kingdom. God was greater than any kingdom thr king was over.
13. Why does Paige object to the phrase “God showed up?” God is always here. Just as Jacob saw the ladder, people can be given glimpses of God’s Presence.
14. How did Paige’s mother make the drunken cousin face reality? He thought he was jumping on his college age looking for a real woman and Paige s mom responded he had found one, It would have shocked him into confusion at first and then reality of the foolish mistake he had made.
15. She told a story of a professor who drew a hook on the blackboard, would try to hang his coat on it, and it would fall down. He said, “One day it is going to stay up.” Paige said just as we think we can make imaginary things real, we can make real things imaginary. What examples can you think of from others or even yourself? If I have had a toothache I hope to ignore it and it will go away and I won’t need a dentist. Foolishness on my part.
16. Why does Paige think is behind the deconversion stories? What do you think? If I understand it’s because we can cancel God because in our opinion God didn’t do what we think is right. God doesn’t think the way I do or approve of what I approve . People determine they won’t believe in a God like that. God doesn’t change and doesn’t become more or less relevant. I need to stand on that God’s truth is truth and Jesus is truth.
17. Why doesn’t the king call on the gods he has been toasting? The point? Because he knows they are “no gods” and made by human hands and are worthless to be of any help, We need the Most High God in our life to call upon.
Great answers — particularly liked your answer to 16.
10. Read Daniel 5:5-16 and share what stands out and why.
The fingers writing on the wall! I would be freaked out.
Why does the king not know of Daniel, if Daniel was given the highest honor of being the top of the wisemen? Seems like he would know, wouldn’t he?
11. Listen to Paige up to Confrontation (following the story of the 9-year-old spilling nail polish) and share what stands out and why.
It’s not about the writing but rather the writer. God was speaking!
God never shows up, He is always present. Never thought of that before! Even in our “God hunts,” I think of Him “showing up.” He is always here!
12. What was usually on palace walls?
All of the family portraits, the wars, the dynasty.
Significance?
God writes to cover up the king’s superiority. “This is who you are.” I am creator, not you.
13. Why does Paige object to the phrase “God showed up?”
He is always present.
14. How did Paige’s mother make the drunken cousin face reality?
Giving him the truth! She was a real woman.
15. She told a story of a professor who drew a hook on the blackboard, would try to hang his coat on it, and it would fall down. He said, “One day it is going to stay up.” Paige said just as we think we can make imaginary things real, we can make real things imaginary. What examples can you think of from others or even yourself?
I try to blot out my children’s adult lives. Even today, while speaking to our second oldest son, I noticed another tattoo. Ugh! 🤦🏻♀️. I ask myself, “ Can this please go away??” Then I plead with God to change his life. Help him remember You Lord.
I agree with her about the “cancel culture.” It is not acceptable to cancel others just because we don’t like them.
16. Why does Paige think is behind the deconversion stories? What do you think?
I’m not familiar with the deconversion stories. Is this like that Turtellian guy? God does not believe like I do, so I can’t possibly believe in Him anymore. God continues to pursue people.
I think people should focus on God and not on Earth. It is hard. We make mistakes. We are misunderstood, probably just like Daniel was. Just because I don’t agree with the LGB agenda doesn’t mean I don’t love people. He calls me to love people.
17. Why doesn’t the king call on the gods he has been toasting? The point?
He knows that his gods can’t help him. We do the same thing. We treat things like gods when we know they can’t help us. We know too. He thinks he can control the situation with his wealth.
10. Read Daniel 5:5-16 and share what stands out and why.
Belshazzar is scared by the fingers on the wall, but he does not have wisdom. He calls for the same magicians etc, but never thinks to call Daniel. The queen comes to calms his fears. She suggests Daniel, but refers to him as having a spirit of the holy gods, not of Almighty God. She acknowledges Daniel’s gift of interpretation, but no credit to God. God is not just showing up, He is always there, He is showing Himself.
11. Listen to Paige up to Confrontation (following the story of the 9-year-old spilling nail polish) and share what stands out and why?
People twist “who” God is and many make him “a god”, making a god in their image. None of will ever change who GOD really is or His power, His greatness or His relevance. If we change His relevance, this is denial. Cancellation, as in our current culture, does not cancel anything….except our own faith and what or who we have faith in. It is denial; Denial is the darker side of deception. We need to pray for discernment in this time in history, as we seem to have a culture returning to idols. We need to seek God’s truth not the truth that is what our culture calls truth.
12. What was usually on palace walls? Significance?
Portraits, Spoils of war; things that speak of the grandeur and superiority of the Dynasty. This is Not a hallucination~ but revelation. Everyone sees it.
13. Why does Paige object to the phrase “God showed up?”
He doesn’t just show up. He is always there. He is showing Himself. The hand writes on the wall to say “This is who you really are”
14. How did Paige’s mother make the drunken cousin face reality?
He says he is looking for a “real woman”! She says “You found one!”
From Patti: None of will ever change who GOD really is or His power, His greatness or His relevance. If we change His relevance, this is denial. Cancellation, as in our current culture, does not cancel anything…
18. Read Daniel 5:17-29 and share what stands out and why. Most of it stands out. Daniel didn’t want the king’s reward. He confronts the king comparing him to Neb unfavorably and the king’s lack of humility. The king rewards him anyway. Daniel’s boldness to confront the king and the king’s response to reward Daniel. ( maybe the king thought he’d get a reprieve somehow)
19. Listen to Paige until after she talks about R. C. Sproul and The Holiness of God and Jonathan Edwards and share what stands out and why.
20. Compare Daniel 5:22-24 with Romans 118-20. How is the king an illustration of the truth stated in Romans? Daniel tells king that the king knew that God had humbled N and stripped him of arrogance and pride and king Bel partied with sacred things anyway. This shows from Romans people are without excuse having seen His invisible qualities and divine nature. The wrath of God was revealed as God judged the king and sentenced him.
21. Is Daniel confronting the king about his drunkenness or orgies? Then what? Application to your life? His failure to honor God. Application is that God will forgive my sin if I recognize and turn to Him. What He is looking for is a desire for me to love and honor Him.
22. The words on the wall all have to do with weights — not about perspective, but facts. The King has failed to worship the One True God. That is a fact. Mene, mene means numbered. Paige sang a song by Rent. (If you want to hear it go to the bottom of the blog.) Tekel means weighed. What was Paige’s point about her story of distress over her son’s birth weight loss? Different scales? I need to measure myself as God would measure.
23. What false scales do you measure yourself on? How can you change your thinking? Other people ‘s approval or my trying to figure out what they are thinking and if finding me lacking. Stop it! Look to God and ask Him if I need correcting or if I failed. Then listen and let it go. It’s all in His hands and He can overrule or correct or direct me to correct any mess.
The reason we feel that divine wrath can be easily overstated is because we do not feel the true weight of sin. You will never make yourself feel that you are a sinner because there is a mechanism, as a result of sin, that will always be defending you against every accusation. We are all on very good terms with ourselves. And we can always put up a good case for ourselves. Even if we try to make ourselves feel that we are sinners, we will never really do it. There is only one way to know that we are sinners and that is to have one dim glimmering conception of God.
Comments on above. Yes I think I can miss sin in my life or come to my own defense mentally by rationalizing . I try to examine myself daily but I miss things, thoughts I have had or something I failed to do or say. The day I come face to face with Jesus I think I will understand how overwhelmingly sinful I am and fall to His feet for mercy and in thanksgiving.
A humble heart: I try to examine myself daily but I miss things, thoughts I have had or something I failed to do or say. The day I come face to face with Jesus I think I will understand how overwhelmingly sinful I am and fall to His feet for mercy and in thanksgiving.
Amen to Dee. Love your humble heart, Judy.
Whenever God brings us to the end of ourselves…it is a favorable moment. As Augustine said, I would be undone if I had not been undone; I would be ruined if I had not been ruined. God orders lesser afflictions that we may escape the greater.
Ralph Davis
25. Comments on the above? Can you share a time God brought you to the end of yourself and now you are glad? I didn’t like what happened to bring me to the end but it was for the best. I found my mom challenging when needed assistance, she adamantly refused help. I became her assisted living and she wasn’t pleased with that. Her neighbor was encouraging her to move to an assisted living place and one day another neighbor strongly confronted me and said that my mom didn’t need to move. I fell apart. I was dealing with my hubby’s health issues, helping her stay in her own place, and then to have an outsider tell me I was the problem. I decided I can’t do this any more. I went to Christian counseling. It gave me a chance to talk, get perspective and get healing from some past events. Am I glad. Absolutely!
26. Joni Eareckson said that her first round with cancer focused her like nothing before. She basically does not have a conversation with somebody without letting them know sin kills, hell is real, and Jesus came to save you. How could you better tell people the truth? I need to start to bring Jesus into the conversation, but I can’t think of specifics
That sounds like a very hard time with your mom!
I had to repent often of my sins in the situation. There were days frustration got the best of me, but I can look back and see that God was sandpapering off rough edges.
28 Read Daniel 5:30-31 and share your thoughts. Quick fulfillment of Daniel’s interpretation,
29. Listen to the end with Paige and share what stands out and why. It’s how she brings Jesus into the OT and leaves me worshipping Him God recorded the story of the fulfillment king’s judgement and unhappy ending so we can have a happy ending.
30. How did Jesus reverse the order of the feast, the fingers, and the fulfillment? He came served, healed and His fingers on the cross fulfilled my need for punishment of sin. One day because of Him I join the feast and have eternal joy in His Presence.
31. What is your take-a-way and why? Gratitude. I kind of ignored that it was Ash Wednesday. I’ve reserved the book Gentle and Lowly and pulled out Fount of heaven prayer book and will be mindful of what this season represents. I have the ultimate gift of Jesus and His unthinkable unbreaking love.
Icebreakers:
1. What stood out from the above and why?
I am reminded to give God the glory for anything that I can do. “You are only a (wo) man.” You are a sinner blessed by God.”
I have been at my daughter’s place the last 2 days and today, I went to a Redeemer Fellowship Church in KC. The pastor spoke on the life of King Rehoboam based on 2 Chronicles 10. He relied on his understanding and sought advisors who were his “buddies” rather than seeking God, and godly, wise advice from the older men who advised his father, Solomon. He did not humble himself and did not give glory to God.
I have had a recent accomplishment-all glory to God but I confess there is a temptation to bask in self-glorification. The practice of God Hunt and Ann Voskamp’s 1000 gifts keeps me grounded in the truth. Oh, help me, God!
2. Denial is a strong impulse when facing what could be a hard truth. Share a time when you ignored a warning from your body, car, friends, or even the Spirit of God and truly regretted doing so. Or share when you didn’t deny it and were glad!
I went to a friend to clear a matter after denying that there was something between us. It was a hard conversation but I am thankful I did.
I will bring back the God Hunt!
Manifestation
1. Read Daniel 5:1-4 and share what aspects of the feast stand out and why.
I see Belshazzar’s excess and insolent behavior toward the things of God. This is PRIDE at its worst.
5. Listen to Paige up to Act II. The Fingers (Through the quote from Ernest Becker) and share what stands out and why.
6. Why did Paige say Belshazzar was showing off even though the Persian army was encamped around the walls? (She gave an illustration of a 97-year-old grandmother doing a kickstand at her grandson’s graduation party.)
Because he thought he could! I am not 79 yet but I don’t want to be doing that just to prove I can. This might be hilarious and ridiculous but could I also be guilty of doing a kickstand in my heart even if outside I am not doing it? Because I can?
Not sure if this might be deleted; I am rabbit trailing here: From Adrian Rogers’ website: “For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry…”
“There is a classic story about a father who told his little four-year-old son to sit down, but the son didn’t sit down. So the father said a second time, “Son, I said sit down.” The boy still didn’t sit down. Finally, the father took him by the shoulders and forcefully placed him in the chair. He said, “Now, Son, sit there!” The little boy answered, “I may be sitting down on the outside, but—” he added defiantly, “I’m standing up on the inside!”
Modern man is drinking and drugging himself out of awareness or spending all his time shopping, which is the same thing.
Ernest Becker: The Denial of Death
7. Comment on Becker’s quote. Do you think you are in denial of your coming death?
I think I am very aware of my coming death. And so I am trying to live like I may not be here tomorrow by paying more attention to Psalm 90:12-“so teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.” Being intentional in spending time with people and truly being engaged with them and sharing what God is doing in my life.
8. Are you applying Psalm 90:11-12 to your daily life? Could you specifically share how you are doing this?
9. Paige said, “The emptier I know myself to be, the more ready to showcase meaningless privilege.” What did she mean? Can you think of an example of this from your life to share?
If I am empty inside, I would tend to pursue things of the world that I have access to. Indulgences are privileges that get out of hand.
I think shopping can be taken to an extreme. I was at a Bath and Body Works yesterday with my daughter. Oh, how enticing all the products they offer. There was this cute car freshener that was refillable. Do I need it? No. Do I want it? Yes. Do I have the money for it? Yes. Should I buy it? No. I could but I decided not to. And when I got home, I was glad I didn’t. I also went to a baker’s supply place and spent some money there. Do I need them? Probably not. But they would make cute treats for my friends. (Smile). “We shall see” Paige quipped before.
That’s a great story about the little boy.
18. Read Daniel 5:17-29 and share what stands out and why.
When Daniel describes how God made the King (Nebuchadnezzar) strong and mighty, killing any one, etc. it made me uncomfortable…to have our God be the One responsible for his actions. That’s just like God being responsible for, in today’s world, Putin’s evilness. I don’t like the way it feels. I realize He allows it, but isn’t responsible, right? Confused. Isn’t it more of the devils work?
19. Listen to Paige until after she talks about R. C. Sproul and The Holiness of God and Jonathan Edwards and share what stands out and why.
Interesting that Daniel has some words to say before he actually deciphers the dream. God gave him knowledge about what to say besides the dream interpretation.
The arrogance of this king is amazing. We are all willing to die for what we worship. That statement is hard, but truth.
God will let us be true to ourselves. Unfortunately.
I looked up several translations of verse 24. The amplified was interesting:
”Then the hand was sent from the presence [of the Most High God], and this inscription was written:“
Daniel 5:24 AMP
The words written were action words (belonging to God). Passive verbs are ours.
The message was, “numbered, numbered, weighed, and divided.” You are numbered out, you are weighed, you are divided.
What are we using for the scales of this life? “I know I’ll measure up if I just look this way, have the right car, live in this neighborhood , etc.” You are measuring against something, right? We go wrong because the scales are wrong! His are the One true set of scales. The standard of the scales is TRUTH.
The Holiness of God allows us to understand ourselves and who God is.
The consequence of all unholiness has to be judgement. We are condemned and have to be rescued. He comes to seek us!
Act II. THE FINGERS
Invitation
Whenever God brings us to the end of ourselves…it is a favorable moment. As Augustine said, I would be undone if I had not been undone; I would be ruined if I had not been ruined. God orders lesser afflictions that we may escape the greater.
Ralph Davis
25. Comments on the above? Can you share a time God brought you to the end of yourself and now you are glad? – God needs to get ‘me’ out of His way in order for him to be able to work in my life. The less of me and more of Him quote is what I need. God showed me all of this when I was trying to figure out how to run my life and raise two young boys. I was trying everything on my own. Working a full time and part time job, asking my parents to watch my kids so I could do the part time job. It ran me ragged. What I needed and what I finally came to realize was I just needed to keep crying out to Him. I lamented, and thanks to Dee’s study on this, I came to find that it was ok to cry out and lament to God. He was with me at all times, but I pushed him to the back and brought my efforts forward. Once I reversed it all, God gladly helped me out. He was there, just waiting for me to reach out and when I did, He guided me the rest of the way. Having done this in my past, has made me reach out to God so much more now and faster. It comes back to my mind how he helped me before, when I reached out to him, so I know that He will do it again. May not always be to my liking, but it is always the best way.
26. Joni Eareckson said that her first round with cancer focused her like nothing before. She basically does not have a conversation with somebody without letting them know sin kills, hell is real, and Jesus came to save you. How could you better tell people the truth? – I could tell them all that God has done for me in the past, how he’s been there waiting for me and how I am so grateful for what he’s done for me. I can try to explain to them that the way we live our lives matters. God cannot be with sin, and sin never turns out anything good, unless we learn from what we are doing. But most times sin destroys in some way.
27. I thought Moms might comment on her illustration of a child saying “You are shaming me” and her response “I am parenting you.” – This is funny coming up today. Last night we touched on this at my Living Room Conversations meeting. I remember my boys saying, and me way back when, ‘everyone else gets to do it’, (insert whatever the ‘it’ might be). They thought I was mean. I always told them, that I’m well to bad, I’m not your friend right now, I’m your mom, who needs to do the best I can for you and if you don’t like it, oh well, life is hard. I don’t know if what I said was the right thing, but I didn’t have extra time to sit down and have a long conversation. I was the parent and what I said was what it was.
Thank you for sharing your story, Julie. I have had those times of trying to do it myself. I, too, realized that He has to be first and He will make the way. Parenting is hard enough, being a single parent must have been so difficult. Thankful for the Lord getting you through hard times. He is faithful.
confrontation and declaration
18. Daniel 5:17-29 Bel thinks he has to bribe Daniel, as if what anyone would do all in their power to get that reward. Daniel turns down the reward, and proceeds to remind Bel of his heritage and the history of Neb (built up by God and brought down by God) and that BEL ALREADY KNEW THIS. Then Daniel tells Bel what he has just done, and only then does Daniel interpret the writing.
What stood out to me was that Bel gave the reward to Daniel, even though Daniel had spurned it. It seems as if Bel is still hanging on to his supposedly exalted position by showing what He can offer.
19. What caught my attentions was Sinners in the hand of an angry God has been turned into God in the hands of angry sinners. This was me before my conversion. I had no real conception of my sinful state (a good girl) until God showed me who HE IS.
20. Daniel/Romans Bel exemplifies the natural man of Romans 1. Even though he KNOWS there is a creator God, Bel chooses to worship the gods of his own making. He refuses to humble himself.
21. Daniel is confronting Bel about his blasphemy, his worship of gods that he’s made instead of the one true God.
22. The point of her story was that we have to make sure the scales are correct when looking at our lives. The only true scale is God’s holiness.
23. I thank God that He sought me out and wooed me to Himself. I do not feel a weight of sin any longer, but I do fell unworthy of all he has done for me, saving me thru Jesus and giving me His indwelling Spirit. to guide me. I have been adopted into the body of Christ. Now my scale is Jesus Christ and reflecting Him in my life.
24. My comment is Romans 6:11-14
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
I love this, Cheryl! The point of her story was that we have to make sure the scales are correct when looking at our lives. The only true scale is God’s holiness.
God in the hand of angry sinners was memorable — interesting that was you once — than ks for sharing.
18. Read Daniel 5:17-29 and share what stands out and why.
Daniel did not want any gain or gift that came from Belshazzar. Belshazzar had defied God and had exalted himself against the Lord of heaven-He sinned not through ignorance, but through disobedience and pride. He praised idols, but he did not praise the Most High God, the ruler of mankind. Verse 23: “But the God in whose hand are your life-breath and your ways, you have not glorified.”
19. Listen to Paige until after she talks about R. C. Sproul and The Holiness of God and Jonathan Edwards and share what stands out and why.
If we do not start at the Holiness of God, we will have no understanding of salvation. Without the Holiness of God, nothing makes sense. Everything will be off, because we are off. We have turned sinners in the hands of an angry God, into an angry God in the hands of sinners. The consequence of all unholiness has to be judgment. So Jesus came and flipped the scale. Judgment is not cancelled, it is transferred from me to Him.
20. Compare Daniel 5:22-24 with Romans 1:18-20. How is the king an illustration of the truth stated in Romans?
Even with the knowledge of the true God and the knowledge of how the king’s father (king Neb) humbled his heart finally to the true God, Belshazzar’s heart remained hard and Belshazzar exalted himself against the Lord of the heavens. Romans 1: 18-20 speaks of the wrath of God that is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness.
21. Is Daniel confronting the king about his drunkenness or orgies? Then what? Application to your life?
Daniel is confronting the king about his thoughts, words, deeds and lack of repentance. I need to be serious about following the truth of God in my heart, thoughts, my words and my behavior. I need to constantly have a humble and repentant heart towards God.
22. The words on the wall all have to do with weights — not about perspective, but facts. The King has failed to worship the One True God. That is a fact. Mene, mene means numbered. Paige sang a song by Rent. (If you want to hear it go to the bottom of the blog.) Tekel means weighed. What was Paige’s point about her story of distress over her son’s birth weight loss?
The hospital did not use a correct scale to weigh her son. We are in denial about the scales and about our willful condition. Without Jesus and an understanding of His sacrifice for our souls, we are condemned. We are to be judge, but Jesus flipped the scales and transferred my sins on to Himself.
23. What false scales do you measure yourself on? How can you change your thinking?
It is easy to try to compare our actions to the actions of others, to excuse our sinful thoughts, words and deeds. We are all guilty. We need to accept that only He is Holy. We need to accept Him with our whole being. He continues to seek to give us His gift of grace. Loved Paige’s words about: Our place of helplessness is a place of opportunity to eternity with Him.
The reason we feel that divine wrath can be easily overstated is because we do not feel the true weight of sin. You will never make yourself feel that you are a sinner because there is a mechanism, as a result of sin, that will always be defending you against every accusation. We are all on very good terms with ourselves. And we can always put up a good case for ourselves. Even if we try to make ourselves feel that we are sinners, we will never really do it. There is only one way to know that we are sinners and that is to have one dim glimmering conception of God.
Martyn Lloyd Jones
24. Comments on the above?
I love this quote. This is why I need to abide in Him and read and study His Word. We need to have others to keep us accountable. Thank you for this blog, dear Dee, where we can come to encourage one another.
I thought that quote from Jones so powerful too.
3. Paige gave some background about the timing of Daniel 5 in comparison to Daniel 4, the contrast between the two kings, and the situation Belshazzar faced. What do you remember? It was 22 years after King Neb died. Belshazzar wasn’t the titled King his father was, but he had been given the responsibilities of the king.
4. Read Daniel 5:1-4 and share what aspects of the feast stand out and why. The sheer number of people in attendance and the fact that on a whim he decides to take the gold and silver goblets that were from the Jewish temple and drink from them. It seems like such an odd thing to think of at that moment.
5. Listen to Paige up to Act II. The Fingers (Through the quote from Ernest Becker) and share what stands out and why. That Belshazzar wants so badly to be significant that he would throw a party and spit in God’s face at such a dangerous time for his kingdom.
6. Why did Paige say Belshazzar was showing off even though the Persian army was encamped around the walls? (She gave an illustration of a 97-year-old grandmother doing a kickstand at her grandson’s graduation party.) Because he could. He has no real importance in history and is trying to show everyone how great he is.
7. Comment on Becker’s quote. Do you think you are in denial of your coming death? He says that shopping and drinking are the same thing when you are doing it to numb yourself to the realities of life (and death). I don’t think that I am in denial of my coming death, but I do think that I live as though it is many years down the road when in reality it could be in the next few seconds.
That’s a good insight on thinking we have many years. Andrew Peterson has a song in which he says death still comes as a surprise.
28 Read Daniel 5:30-31 and share your thoughts.
Interesting note in the amplified version. I couldn’t copy and paste it here, but basically it said that some scholars believe “Darius” was a title, not a proper name. They think he was the head of Cyrus the Great’s army and was the one to take over and kill Belshazzar.
Fulfillment Daniel 5:30-31
It’s strange, but it was almost t he end of Bel’s life was almost anti climatic, he died. It is only as I take the chapter as a whole that I see the entire picture and realize the whole lesson and the mercy nad judgement of God. Bel had everything laid out for him, and he still chose death and judgement.
It’s a reminder to me that unless the Holy Spirit opens the ears, eyes, and hearts of people to truth, they will always refuse to humble themselves. I cannot make anyone believe, no matter how much I love them.
Listening to the end of Paige’s lesson, I couldn’t help but think about “Falling in Love With Jesus.” The love of God for us is so much greater than we can imagine. While I was still an enemy of God, bound in sin, Jesus sought me and wooed me to Himself. Every day is Valentine’s Day because of His everlasting, perfect love.
I once heard a speaker, Joanna Arp, use the illustration of standing beneath Niagara Falls, the water being God’s love gushing over us. A favorite song of mine is “Here is Love,” sung by Robin Mark.
“Here is love vast as the ocean, loving kindness as a flood When the prince of life our ransom, shed for us His precious blood
Who his love will not remember, who can cease to sing His praise? He can never be forgotten, throughout heavn’s eternal day s On the mount of crucifixion, fountains opened deep and wide Through the floodgates of God’s mercy, flowed a vast and gracious tide Grace and love like mighty rivers ,flowed incessant from above Heavens peace and perfect justice, kissed a guilty world with love”
25. How did Jesus change the order of feast, fingers, fulfillment?
Jesus took on flesh and came to earth, the actuaI fingers of God in the person of Jesus Christ. He bore the wrath of God’s judgement, fulfilling all that is required, “It is finished.” The feast begins here and now for believers, and it will continue into eternity in the very presence of the Lord after I die.
I love your points, Cheryl Ann! It’s a reminder to me that unless the Holy Spirit opens the ears, eyes, and hearts of people to truth, they will always refuse to humble themselves. I cannot make anyone believe, no matter how much I love them.
Listening to the end of Paige’s lesson, I couldn’t help but think about “Falling in Love With Jesus.”
Cheryl Ann, I love this “Listening to the end of Paige’s lesson, I couldn’t help but think about “Falling in Love With Jesus.” The love of God for us is so much greater than we can imagine. While I was still an enemy of God, bound in sin, Jesus sought me and wooed me to Himself. Every day is Valentine’s Day because of His everlasting, perfect love.”
23. What false scales do you measure yourself on? How can you change your thinking?
I already answered this question, but I wanted to go back and re-listen to this section. Cheryl Ann pointed this out and it is something I need to focus on. I woke in the night thinking of the importance of the majesty and might of God. Paige says this: We view the love of God and the sacrifice of Christ as the answer to a minor problem we might have. We have turned “sinners in the hands of an angry God into an angry God in the hands of the sinners.” Everything is off if we are in denial about the scales and we in denial about our willful condition. I need to think on this daily! and especially during the Lent Season. The Splendor of God and the Sacrifice of Christ is Everything!
Act III: FULFILLMENT
28 Read Daniel 5:30-31 and share your thoughts. – When disobedience comes in to play and there are no signs of a repentant heart, God will take care of that in the way He sees fit. In this case, it was death.
29. Listen to the end with Paige and share what stands out and why. – Mercy triumphs over judgement. God loves us so much. He gives us so many chances to see the writing on the wall. We need to not just read it; we need to heed it.
30. How did Jesus reverse the order of the feast, the fingers, and the fulfillment? – The fingers are still there for all of us, but for those of us who sit under God’s covering, Jesus came to take those fingers on for us, the difference is that for believers, Jesus fulfilled them all and because of that, we can come to His feast now with joy.
31. What is your take-a-way and why? – The book of Daniel is really opening my eyes in a new way. There is so much God is trying to tell us here. What I’m seeing is that our pride, our thinking that we can do all things on our own, needs to be gone completely. We cannot do anything without the help of Christ. If we don’t see that, if we don’t heed to the writing on the wall, God will see to it, in His way that we do. Either by death, or ruin. He has more grace than I have sin. I need to truly get to the point in my life to have less sin. I want to not waste the fulfillment made by Jesus on the cross. Lord, help me see just how much I’m loved by you.
Love Julie’s take-a-way:
The book of Daniel is really opening my eyes in a new way. There is so much God is trying to tell us here. What I’m seeing is that our pride, our thinking that we can do all things on our own, needs to be gone completely. We cannot do anything without the help of Christ. If we don’t see that, if we don’t heed to the writing on the wall, God will see to it, in His way that we do. Either by death, or ruin. He has more grace than I have sin. I need to truly get to the point in my life to have less sin. I want to not waste the fulfillment made by Jesus on the cross. Lord, help me see just how much I’m loved by you.
28 Read Daniel 5:30-31 and share your thoughts.
Belshazzar has been given every explanation and chance and yet his heart is hardened. He is left alone with his own destruction.
29. Listen to the end with Paige and share what stands out and why.
Paige had so many good points in her closing minutes. Here are a few that stood out to me.
It is the very nature of sin to destroy; That is why God hates my sin and loves me. He could not love me without hating my sin, anymore that you love your children and hate their sin, self destruction and addiction. This is so important to remember about how sneaky sin can be: What you think is loving you and lifting you up is completely taking all of us down. Our days are numbered. She pointed out the importance of know Psalm 39:4 ~ “Lord make me know my end And what is the extent of my days; Let me know how transient I am. ” A great Psalm to memorize.
There is always a fulfillment. Those who are outside of Christ, there is always a feast, finger and a fulfillment. For those inside of Christ, all three of those things are true, yet they will not be in that order.
The very same hand and Holy God who writes the judgment, sent His Son with human hand to wipe it all away. For what is waiting for us on the other side of the cross and tomb is Eternal joy and everlasting embrace.
The Lord recorded Belshazzar’s story with an unhappy ending, so that our story will have a happy ending. We make the choice in our words and how we spend our days.
Such good points, Patti. I’m amazed how in your grief you are still so affirming to others.
This from Paige:
Hey People,
Due to a water main break, the road to the church is closed. I wish I were joking but i’m not! We are unable to meet this morning. We are going to be flexible with the Lord’s timing and we are planning to meet tonight at 6:30 if they can get the repairs done. I need some faces. If you can’t usually come in the morning, now is your chance! Excited to see my night crowd. We will plan to conclude the study next week.
Again, this is all dependent on the repair being completed. If we are a “go” the link will be sent out at 4:30 p.m. today. Hope to see you tonight in prime time!
Paige
So stay tuned. I’ll tell you what is going on here.
19. Listen to Paige until after she talks about R. C. Sproul and The Holiness of God and Jonathan Edwards and share what stands out
Notes to the end of the video:
We will never make ourselves feel like sinners.
He has to judge but He doesn’t have to save.
We are condemned and must be rescued. Even though we don’t know it He still comes to find us.
The fingers are an invitation.
Judgement can’t be canceled only transferred. He took the weight, He took the sin, He was condemned. We can’t understand until we get this picture within us.
Sin kills, hell is real, and Jesus loves you and came to save you. Joni Erickson Tada
Belshazzar never looks to God. He honors Daniel instead.
“Teach us to number our days.” Moses
There is always a fulfillment. If we are in Christ, the scales have been flipped. The fingers healed us, the fulfillment of the cross took our sin, THEN the feast! Same thing, different order.
I was disappointed with myself for not being able to participate much this past week. I was trying to catch up and was pleasantly surprised that today’s study was canceled due to a water leak. This will give me a few more days to meditate on this wonderful study of Daniel.
Thank you, Dee, for this study. I have been blessed reading everybody’s comments. I got to the end of her message and will listen again before I send in my comments. I have a copy of Dane Ortlund’s Gentle and Lowly and would need to pick up where I left off.
I felt the same way when I saw that it was cancelled. I have listened to the whole message, but didn’t get to many of the questions. Also, it’s kind of funny because last week she said that she would have gladly skipped that one.
Dawn, yeah, I remembered her saying that from last week. she said so many good things on this one this week.
8. Are you applying Psalm 90:11-12 to your daily life? Could you specifically share how you are doing this? Instead of looking forward to and thinking about better future days, like M-F wishing it was the weekend or my vacation time or some other time besides a work day, I have been thinking about how each minute of each day is planned by God and I’ve found myself enjoying the moment more even if it IS at work.
9. Paige said, “The emptier I know myself to be, the more ready to showcase meaningless privilege.” What did she mean? That the more meaningless she feels she is, the more tempted she is to try to make herself look important. Can you think of an example of this from your life to share? I am 20-30 years older than the ladies that I work with. It is tempting sometimes to want to do or say something to make them think that I’m not THAT old, but that comes from not being comfortable with aging and feeling less significant because I’m getting older.
Loved your last answer Dawn.
Oh, Dawn, your answer to #9 makes me think of how I feel lately in the classroom. My students are getting younger and younger than me every year. The reality of being older and what comes with it is a challenge sometimes. And oh, to be content with where I am at and able to do! And again to be grateful that I am even alive at this point and that God has a purpose for me. I need not fight what it is and hanker about something else. The book Man in search of meaning comes to mind. Our meaning is found in God alone.