A very familiar passage, but Paige is so great in helping us see how it applies to us. I suspect one powerful part this week is drawn from Tim Keller’s message at ground zero to the families of victims of 9/11. He was given 7 minutes to explain the mystery of pain and suffering. He quickly told of what happened to the men in Daniel 3, who had been thrown in a fiery furnace. Like them, Keller assured these families that their loved ones were not alone, but that the “4th man” was with them. He frankly told them: “We don’t know now why God allowed it, but we do know what the reason is not. It is not that He doesn’t love us, for He went into the fiery furnace and died so that we might be ultimately rescued.”
Again, I’ll follow Paige’s outline so that you can go at your own pace. You can choose daily between the green path or the black. I’ve thrown in 2 questions from the staff of Paige’s church.
I. Why they Forced the Furnace
1. Read Daniel 3:1-15 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
2. Listen up to Point II (How they Faced the Furnace) and share points you liked as well as illustrations. Why do you think these are important?
Paige compared this Jennifer Lopez song to Nebuchadnezzar’s narcissism
3. What do you learn about Neb’s character from:
A. The size of the statute and the fact that it is pure gold (not just the head)?
B. How is this statue like the tower of Babel? And how does Neb foreshadow the coming antichrist?
C. What is the point of all the repetitive lists?
4. What does everyone do according to verse 7 and what is their reason?
5. What would you be willing to die for?
II. How they Faced the Furnace
6. Read Daniel 3:16-18 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
7. In verses 16-18, how do Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego respond to the command and why? What do they know and what don’t they know? So is faith a certainty or uncertainty?
8 Listen up to What They Found in the Furnace and share what comments or illustrations stood out to you and why.
(If your memory needs jogging, she shared John Chrysostom’s responses under threat of death; a Hindu holy man’s accusation; A Grief Observed; John Claypool and “Tracks of a Fellow Struggler;” and her friends who didn’t want to get on an airplane without her.)
9. What is the first of the Ten Commandments and why do the rest flow from it? Where are you tempted to run (and bow down) for comfort, approval, or control other than God?
10. What is faith not? What do you remember about:
A. It is not sharing — having God be “part of our heart.” What was her point with the movie An Indecent Proposal?
B. It is not our strength of faith. Have you ever had someone accuse you of failing because you didn’t have enough faith to see a prayer answered? How does this chapter refute that kind of thinking?
C. It is not a sense of God’s will. What did she mean?
My disappointment was not in the Lord but in my feelings.
C. S. Lewis in A Grief Observed
D. It is not a strategy to control God (Airplane story)
Faith is not to plot God’s course but to obey His command.
Ralph Davis
E. It is not silence before God (John Claypool “Tracks of a Fellow Struggler)
Faith does not eliminate questions, it just knows where to take them.
Paige (I think!)
11. What point was she making about Elisabeth Elliot reading the Apostle’s Creed again and again?
III. What they Found in the Furnace
12. Read Daniel 3:19-30 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
13. Listen to Paige to the end and share any comments or illustrations that stand out to you and why.
14. What was the only thing that burned up in the furnace?
15. How have God’s refining fires burned up things that bound you?
16. What was her point about how screams in the labor room are different than screams in other parts of the hospital?
17. Do you remember what Betsie told Corrie while they were standing naked in line?
18. She recommended Keller’s book Walking with God in Pain and Suffering. Here’s a two minute clip. Share what stands out to you from it.
19. When did Jesus ask of God “Why?” What does this teach us?
20. What is the lesson of the 4th man? When have you sensed Him in times of trouble? Be specific.
She told the story of Dereck Redmond who said he didn’t have a medal but he did have a father who loved him. See this:
‘s a
22. Comments?
22. What’s your take-a-way and why?
74 comments
Thanks, Dee for the Tim Keller quote on pain and suffering from 9/11.
We don’t know now why God allowed it, but we do know what the reason is not. It is not that He doesn’t love us, for He went into the fiery furnace and died so that we might be ultimately rescued.” I hope I can remember for future reference, and could have used earlier this week during chance encounter.
1. Read Daniel 3:1-15 and share anything that stands out to you and why. All the nations must worship. I hadn’t bought of the vastness of Babylonian empire that all nations had to worship statue. I looked at NLT translation and it said 90 feet high, 9 feet wide. That s a huge hunk of gold. What monetary wealth in that nation.
2. Listen up to Point II (How they Faced the Furnace) and share points you liked as well as illustrations. Why do you think these are important? Neb’s image was trying to surpass the image of the dream in chapter 2. Neb wanted total conformity. Worship and serve are mentioned 16 times in the chapter. S, M, and A understood the issue was who they were going to worship and there answer was NO to worshiping the king. Neb’s was ultimate command and S, M, A had ultimate commitment to God.
What do you learn about Neb’s character from:
A. The size of the statute and the fact that it is pure gold (not just the head)? It was something he wanted admired and noticed probably wanting awe.
B. How is this statue like the tower of Babel? The people in Babel were building a tower to be famous . Neb pictured himself as supreme and no one above him. And how does Neb foreshadow the coming antichrist? Neb expected all to worship the image or die. There was requirement of total conformity. There will be a statue of a beast and if you don’t worship it you will die
C. What is the point of all the repetitive lists? How emphatic and total the worship was to be of the king,
4. What does everyone do according to verse 7 and what is their reason? Worship or die, self preservation.
5. What would you be willing to die for? My kids and grandkids and I pray I’m strong enough to die for Christ.
Such thoughtful and honest answers, Judy. Not sure why the comment had to be approved — but sometimes that happens when there is a new device being used.
1. Read Daniel 3:1-15 and share anything that stands out to you and why. The fact that there are always people who try to make themselves look better by making someone else look bad. There was no reason for anyone to point out the 3 Jewish men for not bowing down other than to make themselves look better.
2. Listen up to Point II (How they Faced the Furnace) and share points you liked as well as illustrations. Why do you think these are important? The repetition of who the people who are to bow down as well as the instruments that will be the call to worship the statue. Nebuchadnezzar is having to drive in the importance of himself. He wants to make sure that everyone knows that he is the most powerful.
It is important because sometimes we try to show our importance by loudly proclaiming it or making sure that everyone knows that we are significant. There is the pride of self that we need to constantly be aware of.
Dawn — this makes me think of Proverbs 27:2 Let another man praise you and not your own mouth.
1. Read Daniel 3:1-15 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
The whole bowing down to the statue reminds me of what Muslims do when they pray by bowing toward Mecca. How would people in the countryside know which way the statue was? It’s not like they were educated and understood direction, right? I suppose the kings soldiers could go and tell them, but also, how would anyone know if you didn’t do it? Especially if you lived in the country? I guess your neighbor could tattle 🤷🏻♀️. That reminds me of the nastiness of covid a few years back. That was a horrible feeling! Knowing that neighbors might tell on neighbors. Ugh, what a horrible feeling. It certainly isn’t the way we were brought up here in America. We cared about each other. Now, it’s so divisive.
I also think it’s interesting how the astrologers tattled on the three friends. They were so jealous!
2. Listen up to Point II (How they Faced the Furnace) and share points you liked as well as illustrations. Why do you think these are important?
In all these years, I never realized Daniel was not put in the furnace! It was just his friends! I knew the numbers and that Jesus made the fourth, but I never reconciled it in my brain.
The king respected Daniel’s God but not enough to submit to Him.
He builds an image to himself! It says it 10 times. He is trying to surpass the dream and secure his place.
“…Obnoxious list of the instruments!” Hahaha…
He is a bully!
Power gone amuck.
In Revelation, the people and nations come to the lamb who was slain for them, not a bully who is threatening them. He is a pre-anti Christ. He places himself above all gods. First thing is no other gods before Me. There is no wiggle room. They will not obey man above God.
So good from Laura!
Laura, I thought the same thing this time around. Daniel wasn’t in there. Crazy how things finally show up for me.
I. Why they Forced the Furnace
1. Read Daniel 3:1-15 and share anything that stands out to you and why. – A ninety feet tall and 9 feet wide statue of gold had to be very heavy. How they got it to be that big is crazy. But I see King Neb was so full of himself that when people didn’t follow him and worship him and his gods, he got very upset. I noticed the wording in the NIV that made vs 15 sound more like a choice they could make but of course would have to deal with the extreme consequences. ‘If they are ready’ I wonder if the King was saying ready why he was so quick with this furnace decision and didn’t give any one more time to decide.
2. Listen up to Point II (How they Faced the Furnace) and share points you liked as well as illustrations. Why do you think these are important? – He took his dream that he had and ran past it and made it even bigger than it was. This statue was made of all gold and nothing else. He was going against what God had relayed to him through Daniel. The JLo story about the song, was showing that those who think of only themselves will never find the happiness and peace they are seeking. The 3 men had such strong faith that they did not bow to the king’s request. They believed and trusted the One True God. To have this kind of faith when faced with such a huge decision is what I need to get to.
3. What do you learn about Neb’s character from:
A. The size of the statute and the fact that it is pure gold (not just the head)? – He was very into himself. There was no one better than him in his opinion.
B. How is this statue like the tower of Babel? And how does Neb foreshadow the coming antichrist? – It is so tall that he is trying to show people he has marked the territory and that there is nothing or no one that will overtake him. He is trying to put his mark on those that are afraid to not follow him, just like the antichrist tries to do. He knows there is a more powerful being, but like the antichrist refuses to really see that he will be overcome in God’s timing.
C. What is the point of all the repetitive lists? – It shows how obnoxious the king is and he is throwing his weight around to those who are around him. He is putting so much peer pressure on them that they just don’t see what he is doing is wrong and to extreme measures.
4. What does everyone do according to verse 7 and what is their reason? – they bow down and worship him, they do as he asked. His peer pressure was so big that it seems as though he scared them into following him. Their faith was not with God, but their safety was their main concern.
5. What would you be willing to die for? – I can say my husband and my kids and God, but if the moment was put in front of me, would I really step in front of them or would my own safety be bigger.
II. How they Faced the Furnace
6. Read Daniel 3:16-18 and share anything that stands out to you and why. – the 3 men sound a bit puffed up in a way, but I know their faith was so full that they were not afraid to speak to king Neb like that. They trusted in their God fully and knew he would take care of them.
7. In verses 16-18, how do Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego respond to the command and why? What do they know and what don’t they know? So is faith a certainty or uncertainty? –they told king Neb that they wouldn’t follow or worship him and if they are thrown in to the furnace their God would be with them. They knew that God would take care of them because of the faith they had in Him, but what they didn’t know is HOW he would take care of them. I think faith is both a certainty and uncertainty. Certain, because if we believe and trust in God, we can know without a doubt that He will be there for us, but we don’t know what His plan is for our life so how he comes through for us is unknown. We just know that however he comes to us, is the best plan for our life.
8 Listen up to What They Found in the Furnace and share what comments or illustrations stood out to you and why. – Faith will get us through. It depends on where our faith is placed. They are certain of who they are and who HE is. What comfort it is to know that God will be with us, he will be that 4th man, hanging around with us.
(If your memory needs jogging, she shared John Chrysostom’s responses under threat of death; a Hindu holy man’s accusation; A Grief Observed; John Claypool and “Tracks of a Fellow Struggler;” and her friends who didn’t want to get on an airplane without her.)
9. What is the first of the Ten Commandments and why do the rest flow from it? Where are you tempted to run (and bow down) for comfort, approval, or control other than God? – “You shall have no other gods before Me.” If we have only the One True God in our hearts, we will be living for him and him alone. We won’t be divided on how we live. Being retired and now on a fixed income, I sense a bit of stress financially until the money is deposited again. I know that God has helped cover me in the past with finances and shouldn’t worry, but the fear creeps in.
10. What is faith not? What do you remember about:
A. It is not sharing — having God be “part of our heart.” What was her point with the movie An Indecent Proposal? – We can’t fully have faith in God if we split our faith up. It needs to be in him and only him. Her point to the movie was that they relied on themselves and did things they thought would make them happy but, in the end, tore them apart because of the unfaithfulness, even though they both thought it was ok and the right thing to do to get money. It’s sad how greed can get us to sell ourselves to the devil.
B. It is not our strength of faith. Have you ever had someone accuse you of failing because you didn’t have enough faith to see a prayer answered? How does this chapter refute that kind of thinking? – I can’t recall someone saying my faith wasn’t strong enough so my prayers weren’t answered. The 3 men didn’t know the outcome of what God would do, but they relied on and continued to have faith in him anyway and the outcome was the outcome. They knew it had nothing to do with their faith, how big or strong it was, but in God’s plan for their life. They would win either way, life on earth or eternal life with Christ.
C. It is not a sense of God’s will. What did she mean? – We can’t know what God is going to do, but we want him to follow our orders, or thinking. We know what is best but God can do it for us in our timing. We are so concerned about what we think God should be doing, that we miss what He is doing.
My disappointment was not in the Lord but in my feelings.
C. S. Lewis in A Grief Observed
D. It is not a strategy to control God (Airplane story) – This was funny. God does not show favoritism. He loves each of his children equally.
Faith is not to plot God’s course but to obey His command.
Ralph Davis
E. It is not silence before God (John Claypool “Tracks of a Fellow Struggler) – Some think that if we have faith, we can’t ever question God with what is happening. He welcomes our questions and conversations.
Faith does not eliminate questions, it just knows where to take them. – Loved this a lot. This was so good.
Paige (I think!)
11. What point was she making about Elisabeth Elliot reading the Apostle’s Creed again and again? – That who God is didn’t change because of her trials. He is consistent and never changing. She needed to repeat this over and over to remember just how good God is at all times.
So good, Julie, to look to His faithfulness in the past to help reduce stress!
1. daniel 3:1-15 He’s at it again, I am the king! I am sovereign! Do what I say! Then he flies into a rage again at opposition to his decree. The jealousy of the Chaldeans also comes out. They were only alive because of Daniel and his friends, but burned with jealousy.
2. Points I like: The conformity of everyone is because the king is a bully. I had never put that label on Neb., but that’s exactly what he was, Neb. gathers all the people of nations and languages in Shinar, Babel. The connection to the tower of Babel shows that man does not give up in his quest to be like a god, supreme.
5. What would you be willing to die for? Interesting question, Dee. Common responses are: the gospel, family, friends, etc. I find it easy to say, of course I would, but there is nothing demanding that sacrifice here in our country. I think, for me, the question of what I am LIVING FOR bears more scrutiny. I don’t fear death, but do I fear rejection, persecution, being called names, or being ostracized because of my faith?
Good to think about “what am I living for?” To number our days. Thanks Cheryl.
Cheryl great reminder to know what we live for in the here and now.
Part two Daniel 3:16-18
6-9. I went back to verse 15 to start, and it was interesting to read that the king gave them a “second chance.” Why did he do that, because of his “respect” for Daniel? I don’t know, but this pause, so to speak, seems uncharacteristic.
And then the three friends don’t even blink, or consider the offer, before responding with a definite “no.” The first commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before me…” was the bedrock of their faith. We don’t know their exact age when they left Jerusalem, but they were certain to know the history of their people, and the character and faithfulness of God. Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, deliverance from Egypt, Moses, etc. The way God had protected them and Daniel already (different diet, the dream, etc.) Their faith was rock solid.
My paraphrase: God can deliver us in the furnace, but even if He doesn’t, that’s okay. His will be done.
Good paraphrase, Cheryl.
I. Why they Forced the Furnace
1. Read Daniel 3:1-15 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
What has always stood out to me in this passage is, where is Daniel? Paige doesn’t address this but many commentators believe that Daniel was out of the country on business for the king. Whatever the reason, it must not of been important enough for the author to put it in the story and I believe Daniel would of stood with his three friends.
2. Listen up to Point II (How they Faced the Furnace) and share points you liked as well as illustrations. Why do you think these are important?
The Issue as Paige says is worship. These 3 men know the first commandment from the true and living God…”You shall have no other gods before Me.” and they will not obey the kings command to bow down and worship the image. It was amazing to me when Paige said that the verb for worship and serve are found 16 times in this passage! With there being so many repetitive words and phrases that one just blended right in. But not for these three me and to quote Paige, “they didn’t go running after this (not showy, obnoxious or to make a statement, but rather a quiet defiance), but they didn’t run away either.”
3. What do you learn about Neb’s character from:
A. The size of the statute and the fact that it is pure gold (not just the head)?
Neb is the occasion. He is trying to surpass his dream by making a whole statue out of gold.
B. How is this statue like the tower of Babel? And how does Neb foreshadow the coming antichrist?
The people built the Tower of Babel because they wanted to make a name for themselves and Neb is regathering people around himself.
He foreshadows the coming of antichrist in that when Jesus returns all nations and people will come around the Lamb that was slain. Revelation 4 &5.
C. What is the point of all the repetitive lists?
To make a point and these point to Neb!
4. What does everyone do according to verse 7 and what is their reason?
They bow down to the image as soon as they hear all the musical instruments.
They don’t want to be cast into the fiery furnace.
5. What would you be willing to die for?
It’s easy to sit here and surmise, but until I’m put in a situation where sacrificing my life may be necessary, I really don’t know. I like the fact these 3 men were living “thankful obedient lives” and not looking to be put on the spot but also willing to stand firm, even to death. Matthew 10:28.
I’d never read about the Daniel controversy!
Good point Sharon. Daniel hasn’t been mentioned since the dream was revealed. Hmm.
Do you think it is possible that Neb simply didn’t want to lose Daniel, this interpreter of dreams?
Hitler had a beautiful Jewish mistress and wife — but he may not have known she was Jewish, and certainly not a good woman like Esther!
Dee, that could be it. With Daniel he had more power to hang over everyone.
I. Why they Forced the Furnace
1. Read Daniel 3:1-15 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
Paige sure can pack in a lot in an hour. If I could type as fast as she can talk, I would surely love a transcript! Yes, indeed, a familiar passage that has fresh insights from her and each one of you here.
2. Listen up to Point II (How they Faced the Furnace) and share points you liked as well as illustrations. Why do you think these are important?
Paige compared this Jennifer Lopez song to Nebuchadnezzar’s narcissism
Yikes! I have not heard of this song before, but it speaks of a self-oriented life. And this is the type of song our youth are listening to nowadays.
3. What do you learn about Neb’s character from:
A. The size of the statute and the fact that it is pure gold (not just the head)?
He wanted to surpass the dream that Daniel revealed. It was all about him at this point. He wanted to be sovereign and wanted others to know about it and submit to it. Neb says, “Look at me!” He believed that the world revolves around him.
B. How is this statue like the tower of Babel? And how does Neb foreshadow the coming antichrist?
The tower of Babel was man’s way to exert himself, to make a name for himself. Neb foreshadowed the coming antichrist because he wants to command the worship that God alone deserves. The antichrist’s goal is to usurp the rightful, true King.
C. What is the point of all the repetitive lists?
The lists encompass all peoples and illustrate the pomp that Neb wanted others to see, acknowledge, and obey.
4. What does everyone do according to verse 7 and what is their reason?
They bowed down to the statue or would be thrown into the burning furnace! I conjure a ridiculous image in my mind envisioning all people except SMA or HAM (Hananiah, Azariah, and Mishael) bowing to the gold image.
Questions: Why was there no mention of Daniel? Maybe somebody already asked this question. How many times were the instruments played?
5. What would you be willing to die for?
Whoa! When she asked that question, I was quiet. Maybe, for my husband and my daughter. Because of the virtue of my relationships with them. BUT God sent His son to die for all, while we were yet sinners. The love of Christ surpasses all other loves we can have.
Would I be willing to die for my faith? I think of our persecuted brothers and sisters around the world. I thought of John the Baptist, the apostles, Paul, and all others in the Bible who gave up their lives for Jesus. May God strengthen me to stand up for Him if and when that time comes.
Bing, I hesitated to that question as well, who would I die for. I pray God will be with me if that ever comes up.
If you want a transcript, under the video click the word more. The last choice is for a transcript.
I keep the transcript open all the time and use it to find a particular quote from Paige. It’s easier than trying to find it in the video.
Dawn, thanks for this! I did not know there was a feature for transcripts!
III. What they Found in the Furnace
12. Read Daniel 3:19-30 and share anything that stands out to you and why. – The men that took the 3 men to the furnace died before they even got them in there, yet God and his mighty power kept the 3 safe even in the higher heated furnace.
13. Listen to Paige to the end and share any comments or illustrations that stand out to you and why. – The 3 men found freedom in the furnace. We can be better, refined in the furnace, a sanctification process happens. They were freed of the trial in the furnace, they were freed in the furnace. Jesus went into my furnace for me. I don’t have to go to it because of him.
14. What was the only thing that burned up in the furnace? – The ropes that bound them was the only thing that burned up. The Lord uses the furnace to set us free
15. How have God’s refining fires burned up things that bound you? – I have really been digging deeper to find out just who God is and though I still look up and ask questions, have a time of doubt and poor me attitude creep in, I know that he is burning all that fear and doubt up. I have to say it’s not all gone yet, but I do come to a incomprehensible peace so much faster now. He is still refining me but my seeing Him and what he has and will continue to do is so much clearer now.
16. What was her point about how screams in the labor room are different than screams in other parts of the hospital? – One leads to death, and one leads to joy and life. I think, though the cries of death will come, the peace of knowing who will meet us after our last breath will out way the sorrow. I’m sad that not everyone will find that peace in the cries of death.
17. Do you remember what Betsie told Corrie while they were standing naked in line? – I loved The Hiding Place, what a great book. God was covering this family with his peace. The comment when they were line being stripped of their clothing, WOW Corrie, said “Jesus was naked, they took his clothes too.” And Betsie said, “and I never thanked Him.” Oh my, this hit me hard.
18. She recommended Keller’s book Walking with God in Pain and Suffering. Here’s a two minute clip. Share what stands out to you from it. – I remember way back in high school, taking shorthand as one of the business classes and I was able to do it then, but now, many years later I can’t do any of it. I can’t write it or read it. It sure would come in handy taking notes at a retreat or during sermons, but because I didn’t keep up with it, I lost it all. I think it’s the same with what Tim Keller is saying. We can read all we want and know what is in the Word, but when trials, temptations or whatever the devil throws at us comes along, what we do will determine how we feel and how we get through it. If we take what we learn and DO IT, we will have such peace that others will not understand if they don’t have Christ in their life. It will help not only us, but others who are around us during these times. They will see God’s goodness and love.
19. When did Jesus ask of God “Why?” What does this teach us? – He asked God his father why at the cross. It teaches me that it is ok to ask God questions, to cry out to him in our struggles. He loves questions, but we may not like his answers but in the end, they are the right answers.
20. What is the lesson of the 4th man? When have you sensed Him in times of trouble? Be specific. – The 4th man is Jesus. He is with us in his love and comfort. I will never be alone in the furnace because Jesus was the only one who was alone. He did it because of the love he has for us and so we won’t ever have to be alone again. The 4th man always finds his people. I’ve sensed Him when bad things are happening, he brings me peace in those situations. I remember one time, my oldest son Kyle, was in Afghanistan, he made a quick call to me, saying that he was going out and if I didn’t hear from him in an hour to do some things with his life insurance money, then he said I gotta go, love you bye. Oh I was hysterical, called my sister and she couldn’t understand what I was saying because I was crying so hard, but then GOD, he stepped in and calmed my fears and reminded me that He had spared Kyle before. Kyle called again when he got back and God had his hedge of protection around Kyle the rest of the deployment, even though he was injured, God still was covering him and brought Kyle back home. It was only that peace from God that got me through those very hard 4 years of our lives. When I look back at this time and others, I am reminded over and over of God’s love for me. There is nothing better.
She told the story of Dereck Redmond who said he didn’t have a medal but he did have a father who loved him.
22. Comments? – Oh my, this clip brought tears to my eyes. This is how God is. He grabs us, takes us under his arm and walks with us. He never leaves us, he doesn’t care what others may say, he loves us enough to take the shame and suffering, so we don’t have to. He will be there in the suffering and in the peace. He’s everywhere around us, we just need to be looking for him.
22. What’s your take-a-way and why? – We are only 3 chapters in to the book of Daniel and man, there is so much in here. These studies have really opened my eyes to just how good God is. The love he has for his children is immeasurable. Daniel is showing me so much deeper that God is with me always. His love won’t stop even if I don’t accomplish a goal, or finish a race, he will be there to lift me up and take my place in the furnace. He’s waiting for my questions so he can give me His answer. He is always around me. And like Betsie, I haven’t thanked him enough.
Thoughtful answers, Julie.
3. What do you learn about Neb’s character from:
A. The size of the statute and the fact that it is pure gold (not just the head)? It shows Nebuchadnezzar’s grandiose view of himself.
B. How is this statue like the tower of Babel? It was made with human hands in an attempt to show the importance of the builder and what it represents. And how does Neb foreshadow the coming antichrist? The antichrist is going to make himself look important and all powerful to the world.
C. What is the point of all the repetitive lists? To really drive in the importance of the decree.
4. What does everyone do according to verse 7 and what is their reason? They fall down and worship the statue. Probably to avoid being killed.
5. What would you be willing to die for? Anything that God calls me to, but that is easier said than done.
6. Read Daniel 3:16-18 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
These three all have such great faith! I sure wish I could have that faith all the time. They are OK with whatever way it turns out. Not my faith, my Great God.
8 Listen up to What They Found in the Furnace and share what comments or illustrations stood out to you and why.
I think I went beyond this part. Dee, can you give us time stamps next week? Thank you!
Biblical faith is the definition of all or nothing.
Any diminishment of God is a denial of Him.
Your strong faith is not going to get you what you want from God.
The three do not pretend to know what God will do. They know He will do what He knows is best.
We can’t control God. Reverse psychology! Ha!
We can ask God why.
They are faithful. We do not know if they were strong. We are not told.
Elisabeth Eliot – not one of the statements are changed because of what has happened to her (or us). I often think about a grave situation (maybe I’m in the hospital, and if I look outside, life is continuing as it always does. The sun is shining, the birds are flying, people are grocery shopping, going to work, etc.) I am the one in the situation and God is with me. Thank God!
“I have a friend in heaven from whom you can’t separate me…there is nothing you can do to harm me.” John Chrysostom I know He is with me even when others are not nice to me.
12. Read Daniel 3:19-30 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
The soldiers were killed just bringing them to the furnace! It was obviously super hot.
The king is convinced that the God of the three men is God Most High! A complete turn about…
13. Listen to Paige to the end and share any comments or illustrations that stand out to you and why.
They found freedom in the fire. He burns the ropes but nothing else. They don’t even smell like smoke.
We are being sanctified. We are moving toward life through our suffering! Bring it!
Betsie and Corrie were both set free in two different ways. One was gassed and one was released.
If you want to find Jesus you will find Him in the furnace. Oh have I been there and yes, He has met me too! I love that He just wants a relationship with us. We are allowed to ask why? Why me?
So glad He has met you in the furnace!
6. Read Daniel 3:16-18 and share anything that stands out to you and why. S, M, A response was fixed. They would not worship another god. My faith should be that set.
O7. In verses 16-18, how do Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego respond to the command and why? What do they know and what don’t they know? So is faith a certainty or uncertainty? They didn’t know if God would save he, He would join them in the fire and He would save them
8
9. What is the first of the Ten Commandments and why do the rest flow from it? Where are you tempted to run (and bow down) for comfort, approval, or control other than God? Love God with ALL our hearts, minds and strength.
10. What is faith not? What do you remember about: Not about the strength of our faith not believe hard or long enough When bad things happen it’s not about got to believe The more we believe the more success we will have. It’s not in Bible that our strong faith will take care of us. Faith clings to God and faith follows Him. It is a certainty that I am in God’s hands and He will keep me safe.
A. It is not sharing — having God be “part of our heart.” What was her point with the movie An Indecent Proposal? Our faith is to be all in God. A diminishing of God in our life is a denunciation of God. Without God things fall apart.
B. It is not our strength of faith. Have you ever had someone accuse you of failing because you didn’t have enough faith to see a prayer answered? How does this chapter refute that kind of thinking? I don’t recall anything specific. S, M, and A simply trusted God with the outcome. They trusted in His sovereignty and goodness that whatever happened He was their God and it was His will. (Reminds me of Betsie’s response last week about God is in this too.) Faith is the strength of our need for a really great God.
C. It is not a sense of God’s will. What did she mean? Faith is surrender to God and what He decides to do. It’s not praying for what we want because we know best and we just need God’s power to do what we want. It’s faith in God that His ultimate purpose and answer is for our good.
My disappointment was not in the Lord but in my feelings.
C. S. Lewis in A Grief Observed
D. It is not a strategy to control God (Airplane story) Our strategy is not to be I’ll do all this and then God will do what I want. (We will fly with Paige because God won’t let her plane crash)
Faith is not to plot God’s course but to obey His command.
Ralph Davis
E. It is not silence before God (John Claypool “Tracks of a Fellow Struggler). It is okay to question God Silent submission reduces our personhood. God is a father who pities His children Words and dialog are the way we are to relate. God meets our questions with an invitation to deeper faith. We are to come to Him with our questions.Its the coming to God that is the greatest good for our faith.
11. What point was she making about Elisabeth Elliot reading the Apostle’s Creed again and again? Elisabeth repeated it because not one thing had changed in the truth because of the tragedies in her life. Same as last week’s lesson about the same worship at her church in 2016 post election because nothing had changed about God’s truths.
III
From Judy: Without God things fall apart.
II. How they Faced the Furnace
6. Read Daniel 3:16-18 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
All three men set their faces like flint. They knew what they were facing but remained hardened in their stand to be obedient to God. This reminds me of Isaiah 50:7 which is talking about the suffering of Christ…”For the LORD GOD will help Me; Therefore I will not be disgraced; Therefore I have set My face like a flint, and I know that I will not be ashamed.” Please note that I’m not comparing what they went through to what Christ went through but it does make me wonder about the teaching they received before they were taken captive or did they actually hear one of the prophets speaking this…Isaiah or Ezekiel?
7. In verses 16-18, how do Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego respond to the command and why? What do they know and what don’t they know? So is faith a certainty or uncertainty?
They responded by telling the king that they had no need to answer him because their God is able to deliver them from the furnace and He will deliver us out of your hand. But if not, we won’t serve your gods or worship the golden image.
They knew that no matter what God would deliver them. They didn’t know how.
It is a certainty in who God is, but an uncertainty of how it will all play out.
8 Listen up to What They Found in the Furnace and share what comments or illustrations stood out to you and why.
This whole section was so good and something I wish I had heard many years ago. In the summer of 2020 we did a study here on “Lament” and my first reaction was why? What Paige talked about in #5, “that faith is not silencing all of our questions,” reminded me of that study. I remember we discussed stoicism and Paige says here, “stoicism is NOT Biblical.” That “Lament” study really changed my prayers, thank you Dee🙏 and what Paige says confirms it once again!
Thanks, Sharon. The Lament has been so helpful to me, in grief — and in some ways, I lament every day for we live in a fallen world, and I am part of it.
The Lament study was very helpful. We don’t have to sit silently we can cry out to God and praise him all in the same breath.
II. How they Faced the Furnace
6. Read Daniel 3:16-18 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
7. In verses 16-18, how do Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego respond to the command and why? What do they know and what don’t they know? So is faith a certainty or uncertainty?
There was no negotiating with King Neb. They understood what he was asking of them but they would not bow down to him. They know the faithful God who can and will rescue them. Faith is a certainty because we have a God who is faithful to the end.
8 Listen up to What They Found in the Furnace and share what comments or illustrations stood out to you and why.
John Chrysostom- he defied the king and was not afraid of death. He stood his ground because he was standing on the solid Rock
The Hindu holy man came across to me as a narcissist like King Neb. It was always somebody else’s fault.
A grief observed by C. S. Lewis at the death of his wife, Joy. “My disappointment was not in the Lord but in my feelings.”
(If your memory needs jogging, she shared John Chrysostom’s responses under threat of death; a Hindu holy man’s accusation; A Grief Observed; John Claypool and “Tracks of a Fellow Struggler;” and her friends who didn’t want to get on an airplane without her.)
9. What is the first of the Ten Commandments and why do the rest flow from it? Where are you tempted to run (and bow down) for comfort, approval, or control other than God?
You shall love the Lord your God will all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your mind.
The rest flows from it as the question here is: “Who am I worshiping?”
I am tempted to run to other people, my own abilities, and my status.
10. What is faith not? What do you remember about:
A. It is not sharing — having God be “part of our heart.” What was her point with the movie An Indecent Proposal?
King Neb did not ask the three men to abandon God. He was just asking them to demote him. To make room for another god. A payout from Robert Redford to Demi Moore and her husband so they could get what they wanted. They got what they wanted alright (money and a solution to their problems) but ended up with a broken marriage.
B. It is not our strength of faith. Have you ever had someone accuse you of failing because you didn’t have enough faith to see a prayer answered? How does this chapter refute that kind of thinking?
Yes. “Have more faith”. The results of our prayers are not dependent on our faith. It is dependent on our faithful God and His sovereignty.
C. It is not a sense of God’s will. What did she mean?
My disappointment was not in the Lord but in my feelings.
C. S. Lewis in A Grief Observed
Our emotions cannot be depended on when we try to filter a “yes” or a “No’ as God’s answer. God’s faithfulness is a fact regardless of our circumstances.
D. It is not a strategy to control God (Airplane story)
Faith is not to plot God’s course but to obey His command.
Ralph Davis
We cannot over-strategize or manipulate God.
E. It is not silence before God (John Claypool “Tracks of a Fellow Struggler)
Faith does not eliminate questions, it just knows where to take them. Paige (I think!)
We are not to stuff our emotions and think it will go away. We are no less of a Christian just because we ask God why questions. We need to know He is the Person we need to bring these questions to.
11. What point was she making about Elisabeth Elliot reading the Apostle’s Creed again and again?
So she can remind herself who God is and not be carried away by her grief and her circumstances.
I too have those idols, Julie. Lord, help us both!
18. She recommended Keller’s book Walking with God in Pain and Suffering. Here’s a two minute clip. Share what stands out to you from it.
I actually have a copy of this book. I’m not sure when I got it and it have not read it all. I think I will read this for Lent.
We will all endure suffering in our lives. Instead of defeating us, we will learn how suffering can deepen us and grow us.
19. When did Jesus ask of God “Why?” What does this teach us?
Jesus asked God “Why?” When He was on the cross. Jesus took our sin (the furnace) so we could fellowship with Him. He gave us the way to fellowship with Him; in the furnace. He went there instead of us. He loves us. I will never be alone because Jesus was. He will never turn His back on us.
The Bible talks so much about the suffering. No other religion has a leader who suffers for His followers. Ultimate judgment. We join Him there.
12. Read Daniel 3:19-30 and share anything that stands out to you and why. The king’s response that anyone who spoke against S, M & A’s God would be torn limb by limb and their homes turned into a heap of rubble.” The king though recognizing God was still a brutal man. I guess I need to search my heart where do I let anger in because its out of my heart that I speak words. (It’s been a frustrating morning.)
Judy, am sorry about your frustrating morning. I have been there.
Part 2 daniel 3:19-30
12. It shouldn’t surprise me that the king responds again with fury to the opposition of the three friends. This is one scary dude, absolutely drunk with power.
What stood out to me today was that there wasn’t even the smell of smoke on them after being in the furnace. Have you ever walked into a room that smelled of any kind of smoke (just the smell, no open flame or burning canle/cigarette), stayed a few minutes, then walked out? The smell clings to my clothes and hair from just a few minutes. This was such a display of God’s power, down to the tiniest detail, saved to the uttermost!
13, There is no “What if,” Betsie told Corrie. There is no Plan B with God, I am exactly where He wants me. Circumstances my catch me unaware, but not the Lord.
19 “I will never be alone in the furnace, because Jesus was.” I will never experience total separation from God, because Jesus did, on the cross. “My God, My God, Why…”. He did it for me. FOR ME!
I imagine that is what hell is like, total separation from God. It would be agony for the believer (though not possible), and agony for the unbeliever (who has no conception of the blessings of the providence of God already showered upon all living).
I think that is one of Satan’s fiery darts, “You are alone in this sorrow, this furnace.” Thank God, that is not true!
From Cheryl:
I think that is one of Satan’s fiery darts, “You are alone in this sorrow, this furnace.” Thank God, that is not true!
13. Listen to Paige to the end and share any comments or illustrations that stand out to you and why. She always points us to Jesus and leaves me wanting to worship Him. He is with us in the fire and we grow in the fire and find freedom in the fire. That’s been true for me.
14. What was the only thing that burned up in the furnace? The ropes that bound them.
15. How have God’s refining fires burned up things that bound you? One that comes to mind was 7 or 8 years ago my mom for no reason slapped me. I remember my husband looked at me like what. There was a brief second I wanted to hit back, but didn’t, Thank God. . I felt terrible that my reaction was a desire to hit back. I had never struck my parents. Anyway friends prayed with me and we worked through forgiving my mom.
16. What was her point about how screams in the labor room are different than screams in other parts of the hospital? Some screams of pain may result in death and some will bring joy. It’s all in God’s hands. It’s trusting Him with the outcome even when we don’t understand why this is happening,
17. Do you remember what Betsie told Corrie while they were standing naked in line? Jesus was naked and Betsie responded I never thanked Him.
6. Read Daniel 3:16-18 and share anything that stands out to you and why. This always is the difficult concept to get across to unbelievers. God being in control and having things not turn out like we and everyone else thinks that they should, i.e. the baby dies, the disease isn’t healed, the “enemy” wins, the plane crashes, etc. These are the times that unbelievers use to “show” that God really isn’t in control.
7. In verses 16-18, how do Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego respond to the command and why? That God is able to deliver them from the King’s hand and they will not bow down. What do they know and what don’t they know? They know that God is in control of every aspect of the situation. They don’t know whether they will be rescued from the flames or through the flames. So is faith a certainty or uncertainty? It is a certainty. The certainty is that the almighty God is always in control of everything. The only uncertainty is in our minds.
8 Listen up to What They Found in the Furnace and share what comments or illustrations stood out to you and why. One thing that newly stood out to me was that their ropes were burned off. That has to have significance to biblical references that He will loose our chains and unbind us from the enemy’s capture.
Dawn,
I’ve been following silently. Your response to #6 caught me off guard. How unbelievers use difficult circumstances to show God is not in control. Certainly, life’s tragedies make even the strongest Christians ask ‘what is happening?’ Or like Christ, ‘why have you forsaken me?’ We don’t understand and we cry out for an alternative from God. Like Jesus, we want any option except the furnace. Would you all pray for my family as we navigate the tragic loss of my 6 month old granddaughter after watching her miraculously saved from a rare heart defect through surgery at only a few days old? I praise Jesus for the faith my children have in our big God, which allowed them to turn her funeral into a celebration and opportunity to share the gospel and yet, the pain of loss is so real and lasting. 💔https://www.youtube.com/live/sNN_K-vr684?si=6fHvKiB_WnTni8wQ
I will pray for you and your family as you grieve the loss of your precious Granddaughter. I am sorry for your loss.🙏✝️🙏
Chris, I am sorry to hear about your granddaughter. What a loss to you and your family. Praying for the peace of God and His comfort.
Chris, I am so sad to hear of your sweet granddaughters passing. Praying for your family 🙏🙏.
Chris, I am so sorry about your granddaughter. This is exactly what I was meaning. Sometimes these things have a tendency to make a hard heart even harder. I will be praying for you and your family.
I remember seeing your facebook posts during the time of her passing.
What a beautiful service for her. To have a pastor that also experienced a similar loss must have been a comfort.
Thank you all so much. This is one of many very difficult circumstances I have experienced this past year where I keep having to talk to my soul and remember all the promises and work on the cross. Though my head knows it, my heart needs to feel it. This community is a place I visit to get my heart in line. Thank you all ❤️
That was new to me too, Dawn — and SO GREAT!
12. Read Daniel 3:19-30 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
Like several others have mentioned…Where was Daniel when his 3 closest friends were to be burned alive? I never thought of this before…but that’s what stood out to me now.
13. Listen to Paige to the end and share any comments or illustrations that stand out to you and why.
Two things stood out to me, but the whole study of Daniel Chapter 3 was truly amazing. Paige really has a gift of teaching.
1- When Corrie ten Boom yelled out to her sister Betsy(as they stood naked in line before the Nazis) “they took His clothes too!” And she said “I never thanked Him”.
2- Jesus bore the burden of my sin and experienced being forsaken by His Father, so that I would never have to experience being forsaken by my Father God! I am forever grateful for the cross of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior! Lord Jesus, help me to live a life worthy of You and Your great Sacrifice for all humanity. Amen.
That was so good from Betsie!
20. What is the lesson of the 4th man? When have you sensed Him in times of trouble? Be specific.
He is always with us we are never alone. Oh boy, several times. Two stories stick out and I have told them here before. Pardon me if you have already read these.
The first was when I was 12. It is the most important. My father was dying (of alcoholism I found out about 12 years ago). He was in the hospital in ICU. My sister snuck me up the back stairs of the ICU and my gma opened the door for us to come in! Those were the days when children were not allowed in. I got to his bed and spoke to him for a couple of minutes. I don’t think he was awake. Then, I heard, loud and clear, “You may not have an earthly father, but I will always be your Father.” Plain as day! I keep that close to my heart. I need Him every hour.
https://youtu.be/tZIMDcgrF-Q?si=MhHqRZh6TjsWKyE-
The second story is about our middle son. He was angry one night (10-11 PM). He left the house unbeknownst to us, on a bicycle. We couldn’t find him for at least a day. I threw myself on my bed and begged the Lord to give me something, anything to help find our boy. The phone rang immediately! No lie. It was a woman I didn’t know, who asked me if I was the mother of the teen! She told me where to go to find him across the street from her house! Crazy.
He is with us ALL THE TIME.
https://youtu.be/ScK3v5gcBK0?si=RobeiFZUqN690ssT
Wonderful to read! I thank God for His faithfulness and that you recognize His voice, protection and provision.
Yes Laura, He IS with us all the time. That was the deep comfort God have me this past year regarding my Mom. He made it plain to me that He was with her every single moment of every single day near her holding her in his hands and caring for her. We serve a wonderful God who is our Father as He promised you He would be.
♥️
Laura, I remember the story about your son. And what a story about your Dad!
Great stories of His faithfulness.
I am touching base here to let you know God has graciously answered many prayers and taken my sweet Mom home to Heaven. Several of you have graciously prayed for that as well. She was 99 and her body was completely worn out. But God our Father was with her and it showed in her peace and her smile. We will miss her but we are rejoicing to know she is with Jesus. And she has had an amazing reunion with my Dad and a host of other family and friends. Yesterday my husband Terry and I drove back home to Nebraska from Texas where we have been for the past 6 weeks. It was a 15 hour drive but God gave us an incredibly good day and the strength and stamina to do it. We normally drive it in two days but we are convinced that it is because we had so many family and friends who were praying for us as we traveled. It is a wonderful blessing to be a part of the family of God. Mom’s funeral will be this coming Friday at our church and our son Tyce is officiating the service. It will be a whirlwind now. My sister and I will finalize the arrangements today with the funeral director. Our two brothers travel in tomorrow and a number of the ten grandchildren are coming on Thursday. Our home will be the center point for most of the activity. We desire that the service we plan will be a time of praise and worship to God our Savior as we celebrate the life of my Mom. She never drew attention to herself. Quite the contrary. What made her special was Jesus in her life. She was consistent and faithful in her walk with Him. I will rejoin the study as soon as I am free to. Again I love and appreciate the sweet sisters I have here on this blog study and thank you for your prayers.
I’m sorry for your loss. What a wonderful woman and example for life. Prayers all goes smoothly and that you have wonderful time of memories.
Oh, Bev, I am sorry your mother has passed, but praise God we know where she passed to – Glory! Reading about her I am reminded of Paul’s words: “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith.” Your mother did, too. What a legacy she has left you and your family. Lord bless you.
Bev, thanks for sharing your heart. I’m so thankful that your Mom is resting in the arms of Jesus and I pray for His peace and comfort over you and your family🙏❤️
Oh Bev, I’m so sorry for your loss. Praying for you and your family in the days ahead.
Dear Bev, I am so sorry for the loss of your Mother, but rejoice with you of her home-going! Praise God that you all have that Blessed Assurance in her new residence! Praying for you and your family to have a wonderful time of celebration of her life. 🙏✝️🙏
Bev, many, many prayers for you and your family as you say goodbye to your Mom. What a blessing for you all to have had her for many years. Thankful for the peace that encompasses your family right now. Hugs, dear friend!
Praying for you and your family. Rest in Him. Thank You Jesus for peace. ♥️🙏
Oh Lord, be with Tyce as he officiates his grandmother’s funeral service. Be with Bev and all who loved her mother.
III. What they Found in the Furnace
12. Read Daniel 3:19-30 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
These three men were in the fire with a 4th, unbound and not hurt. Abiding with Christ, fellowship and obedience in all circumstances is very freeing and knowing that He is always with me brings peace in the pain.
III. What they Found in the Furnace
12. Read Daniel 3:19-30 and share anything that stands out to you and why.
13. Listen to Paige to the end and share any comments or illustrations that stand out to you and why.
14. What was the only thing that burned up in the furnace?
The ropes that bound the men!
15. How have God’s refining fires burned up things that bound you?
My idols of approval and control and self-centered desires
16. What was her point about how screams in the labor room are different than screams in other parts of the hospital?
The screams in the labor room are equated to life and the screams in other parts of the hospitals are either for pain or suffering, and death.
17. Do you remember what Betsie told Corrie while they were standing naked in line?
“They took His clothes, too” and I forgot to thank Him!
18. She recommended Keller’s book Walking with God in Pain and Suffering. Here’s a two minute clip. Share what stands out to you from it.
19. When did Jesus ask of God “Why?” What does this teach us?
When He was forsaken and dying on the cross; we can ask God, “Why” and He can take all of our whys. I need to come to God for my why and He is okay with that.
20. What is the lesson of the 4th man? When have you sensed Him in times of trouble? Be specific.
The 4th man is always with me through the furnaces of life. It is often the times of trouble that He is most near.
A Tim Keller quote I found from Lisa Appelo: “Only the true God can go with you through that furnace and out to the other side. The other gods will abandon you in the furnace.”
She told the story of Dereck Redmond who said he didn’t have a medal but he did have a father who loved him.
The clip brought tears to my eyes. When all his dreams of a medal came crashing down, his father was there to support him to the finish line.
22. Comments?
At the end of the day, what matters most are the people who love us unconditionally. And who else can do this the best but our Heavenly Father?
22. What’s your take-a-way and why?
The furnaces of life will come but we will always have Jesus with us.
I thought of verses that are a favorite to many of us here:
Fear not for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are mine. When you pass through the waters, they will not overwhelm you… When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not see you ablaze. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43:1-3
Beautiful verses to end with. Thank you.
AMEN!