We’re doing a short series of hard questions that unbelievers often ask. This one may be the most common, and it is a hard one that needs to be handled with compassion and humility.
Free pexels photo by Warren Warby of children’s shoes stolen by the Nazis at a Polish death camp during the Holocaust
Above is Keller’s 8 minute version to this question. We will use this combined with Scripture this week. This is one of a series we will return to as a model for us. Peter tells us to answer questions with “gentleness and fear,” which I believe Keller models. Peter also tells us to be prepared to give an answer for the hope within us, and I want that for each of us.
On a personal note, thank you for your gentleness toward me when I mentioned a controversial view of hell last week. It’s good to discuss these hard questions with mature believers in an attitude of humility and truth.
Sunday:
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
Monday: Text # 1
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9?
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12?
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14)
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why?
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
4. What stood out to you the most and why?
Wednesday: Careful Listening
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!)
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this?
Keller tells us to always listen so carefully that we can repeat back what was said or asked to be sure we understand. He does this here.
Thursday: Kind to Everyone, Gently Instructed
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit?
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they?
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
B. What is his point with the cat story?
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.)
Friday: But why didn’t God stop the holocaust?
9. Watch to the end
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain.
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that does mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
Saturday:
11. What have you learned about being a winsome witness from Keller and the Scriptures?
12. We are to be prepared to give an answer. Share two things you might say in response to why does a good God allow evil and suffering?
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week? I have experienced a renewing in my soul for community with God and other Christians this week. I have been tempted to hole up in my house rather than go out and participate in events that have been going on this week. It has done my soul good to go out and be a part of His work and His family.
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? Never repay evil with evil, but give a blessing instead. That is our purpose, as Christians. Have compassion, be humble, be kind, for others may not remember what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel. Be an emissary for Jesus and do not defend yourself, especially with cruel words. I love this verse: “The Lord redeems the soul of His servants, And none of those who take refuge in the Lord will be condemned.” Psalm 34:22
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now? I struggle with the evil on the world, especially against the innocent. I don’t understand all the ways of God, but I don’t feel compelled to argue about things like that.( I do not like arguments or confrontations.) All I can do is trust Him. I have said this to unbelievers: that God has given us a lot of evidence of who He is, yet we have a choice to believe or not believe. If we believe and there is no God, we do not gain or lose; but if we do not believe and there is a God, (which I truly believe emphatically!) then we have lost eternal life. If we do believe and GOD does exist, we have gained everything! for eternity. Arguments can deteriorate a relationship, but sharing a loving answer to prayer that has helped you to see the reality of God, can give an unbeliever something to think about.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? We need to control our tongues from evil and our lips from speaking deceit. I must turn my heart from evil and do only good. We should seek peace and harmony in relationships. Our behavior, attitude and choices in life can demonstrate who we are and how we view God, more than an argumentative discussion. Be discerning in how you represent Jesus.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14) We do not encounter harm through an act of kindness. If we do suffer for our kindness, it brings a special blessing to our souls. We are not to fear those who try to intimidate us as believers. Believers are to only to fear/revere only God.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? We are to have an inner commitment to Christ in our hearts. We should be ready to make a defense to those who ask about our faith. When we defend our faith we should do it with humility, and a gentleness and reverence. Our defense should be given with love, never with arrogance, pride or degrading words or attitude.
If we believe and there is no God, we do not gain or lose; but if we do not believe and there is a God, (which I truly believe emphatically!) then we have lost eternal life. If we do believe and GOD does exist, we have gained everything!
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
God is answering prayers in the relationships of some of my family members. I pray that I will represent Jesus well, in my conversations. He is doing healing in His way and His time. My Piper dog is stabilized and doing well. I do have a heart for God’s creatures.
Patti, my prayer is the same for me as I will pray for you…” I pray that I will represent Jesus well, in my conversations.” I’m so glad to hear that Piper is stabilized! I can relate to having a heart for God’s creatures😊❤️
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
We had our two grandsons Wednesday through Sunday this last week and I am so thankful that we can be a part of their lives. I do understand why God gave children to young people as it was hard to keep up with their energy. We took them to their church yesterday as that was their choice and we so enjoyed it.
Oh, Sharon, This make my heart sing! What a great a time and you are making memories that will last forever. I agree! so wonderful that we have our kids when we’re young and energetic!
Sunday: 1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week? – My mind still seems to be in a whirlwind after my mom’s passing, and I missed putting an outing on my calendar. When my friend texted and asked if we were still coming, I was like, “oh man, I thought it was next week”. What I received back was compassion and understanding. She told me to give myself some grace. God is so good to bring people into our lives that soften the blows we give ourselves.
Monday: Text # 1 Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way. 2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16 A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? – We are to have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart and a humble mind. We are not to repay evil with evil but in return to bless. We act in these ways because we were called to be like Christ and will obtain a blessing when we do. B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now? – I can’t think of anything off the top of my head except for the conversation I had a couple of weeks ago with my bonus son. He’s mentioned to me a couple of times now that he talks to the dead. When he brings it up, I tell him he’s talking to the devil and that is not a good thing to be doing. I am not a confrontational person so when I do discuss things with unbelievers I come across as not being very bold. I speak in a softer way. I don’t like to compromise a friendship or a conversation, but I also want to be bold for Christ as He has called me to be. I need to work on this and remember to be gentle in my speech. C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? – If we want to enjoy good days and love life we are to not speak deceitfully or say evil things. We are to not do evil things but instead turn away from any evil. We are to speak peace and pursue peace in our lives. Staying pure in heart and finding peace will bring the presence of God in our lives. The Lord turns away from those who do evil. D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14) – Harm will be far from us if we do good. But if it does come our way, we are to suffer for righteousness’ sake and have no fear of them, we are to not be troubled in these times. E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? – But we are to honor God in our hearts and stand steadfast in His ways and defend the gospel. When we stand strong and have a good conscience, those who revile against us may be put to shame.
I love this, Julie: I don’t like to compromise a friendship or a conversation, but I also want to be bold for Christ as He has called me to be. I need to work on this and remember to be gentle in my speech.
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9?
Be of one mind.
Sympathize with each other.
Love each other.
Be tender hearted.
Keep a humble attitude.
Don’t repay evil for evil.
When you’re insulted don’t retaliate with an insult, but pay them back with a blessing as this is what God has called us do and He will grant you His blessing.
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?
In a discussion with disagreements I was very careful in how I responded, tying to see their side but giving my view point too. Seeing that we were not going to come to any agreement I finally said, “I think we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.” I did not want our different views to end us being mad at one another.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12?
How to behave…
Keep your tongue from speaking evil and your lips from telling lies.
Turn away from evil.
Do good.
Search for peace, and work to maintain it.
Why…
So you may enjoy life.
See many happy days.
The Lord’s eyes watch over those who do right.
His ears are open to their prayers.
He turns His face against those who do evil.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good?
We’ll be harmed or suffer .
But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14)
God will reward us so we don’t need to worry or be afraid of their threats.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why?
Worship Christ as Lord of our life.
Be ready to answer and explain about the hope we have as a believer when asked.
Do this in a gentle and respectful way.
Keep our conscience clear, so if people speak against us, they’ll be ashamed when they see what a good life we live because we belong to Christ.
Sunday:
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
My husband has been volunteering at the food pantry and has befriended and given some small jobs to a few men going there. Last Friday, one of the men came to help me with the garden. He is in his 50s, has some mental health issues, but can work some. He does not have much and lives in a low-income apartment here in town. He talked about some friends who are having health issues. I sensed a lonely, downtrodden man and couldn’t help but feel sorry for him. He has come to church before. That evening, he called my husband to thank us for giving him a job so he could pay his rent. I realized that no matter how small, God can use us to show his goodness to others. He calls us to do what is in front of us. I pray that Carl will know Jesus soon as his Savior and Lord.
I am thankful to have been able to read all the comments from last week! Wow-that was some heavy stuff, but insightful about hell.
Monday: Text # 1
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9?
Admonitions: be like-minded, love another, be compassionate and humble; repay evil with blessing
Warnings: do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult
Promise: You were called to do these things to inherit a blessing
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?
I was talking to a mother of one of our teens at church, and she asked a question about religion. She asked me if she needed to change religion if she were to be a Christian. I said that religion does not make us a Christian, but a relationship with Christ does. Then, she proceeded to tell me about what good things she does. I offered to meet with her at some other time, as her little son was fidgeting and I could tell they needed to go. A follow-up call later for a meeting time did not materialize as her schedule (6 kids!) got crazier. I keep in touch with her through texts, but haven’t had any more conversations with her. I looked back at that exchange and thought I could have done better. Nevertheless, I continue to pray for her, for a time with her, and the Lord’s will. I also have to remind myself that God can use other people to draw her closer to Him. I can see myself as one link and be content with that, and be open to another opportunity from the Lord to connect with her.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12?
Keep our tongue from evil and deceitful speech; seek peace and pursue it.
The Lord has his eyes on us, and He will answer our prayers.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14)
No harm will come to us. We are still blessed for doing good and should not be discouraged from doing so.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why?
Revere Christ. Our eyes should always be on Jesus. Be prepared to share my hope in Christ. Do these things with gentleness and respect and with a clear conscience.
Why: so that others who speak maliciously against our good behavior would be ashamed of their slander.
I love your talk with the young mom. Don’t we always feel we can do better? Praying for your words with her to open her heart as you say to perhaps others who can lead her further to Christ. I am sure your words softened her heart and peaked curiousity about Christ.
I love how you looked at your talk with the young mom, as maybe you were one link, and you are content with that. What a beautiful way to look at this encounter. You gave her the gospel in a sentence, you made a connection, and I pray that you can do a follow up, in God’s time. (It can be hard to have a deep conversation with a fidgety little one. ) I also love “our eyes should always be fixed on Jesus!”
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16 A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? We need to be humble, loving, sympathetic, tender. We shouldn’t repay evil for evil or seek vengeance. If we do this we will obtain a blessing. B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now? I had many conversations with an unbelieving coworker, that was a friend of mine, when I was younger and I’m afraid that I was harsh and sanctimonious. We were both pregnant at the time and I declined to do a prenatal test for genetic defects that she opted to do. The things that I said about why I wasn’t getting the test made me sound like I was a better and more loving mother than she was, because I would accept my baby no matter what and she would consider aborting hers. All of my reasons were because “I was a Christian” and wouldn’t do something as horrible as killing my child. I’ve always regretted how mean, unsympathetic and cold I was about the situation. She remained my friend and I watched her son in the mornings before I went to work. I’ve always hoped that she wouldn’t remember the thoughtless, unchristian comments that I made. C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? Keep our tongues from evil and our lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil. Do good. Pursue peace. The Lord listens to the prayers of a righteous person who seeks him, but turns away from those who do evil. D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? That you will be harmed. But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14) You will be blessed if you suffer for righteousness sake. E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? Honor Christ in your hearts. Have a good conscience. Answer people’s questions about the hope that is in you kindness and gentleness. So that even if they speak ill of you there will be nothing to prove them right.
That is interesting, about the prenatal testing. I had one done because they told me to. I went to church each week and considered myself a Christian, but did not know the viewpoint you had. Wow! They thought I would get an abortion so they made me have the test? That is so negative. Incidentally, the baby I had to have the test for was Sarah, our daughter. I thought they wanted us to have the test in case we had to prepare for a child with a disability! Ha! I’m so stupid! I’m glad it all worked out for you in the end.
I also was offered that prenatal testing and I don’t remember why but I denied it as I didn’t see any point in discovering problems that could not be addressed prior to the birth and I remember reading stats that showed inaccuracies in the test. Besides all this, I did not believe in abortion and I do think this was a part of the reasoning put forward for the test. Mine was offered at an Army hospital in Louisiana and I got the feeling they were required to offer the test, but there was absolutely no pressure to accept.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16 A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9?
We are to “be of one mind, love one another, sympathize, be tenderhearted, and humble.”
We are to also, “repay evil with evil, don’t pay back evil with evil, instead we should offer a blessing.”
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?
I have defended knowing Jesus to my colleagues over time. They have patronized me and I have backed down. I have also tried to explain, too vigorously, and was ignored. I have tried to live a life of kindness and gentleness toward them lately and that does seem better. One of them actually contributed to our upcoming mission trip.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12?
To live a happy life we are to not speak evil and no lies. Do good and search for peace.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14)
The Lord will watch over us. He will answer our prayers.
No one will harm us for doing good. The Lord will make sure of this. We should not worry.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why?
We are to worship with Jesus as the center of our life. When asked about hope we have to be ready to answer. We should answer in gentleness. People will see us in our lives and know the truth about Christ.
Sunday:
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
In my world of suffering, the good Lord has given me scripture, kind words from friends and family, and reminders of His love in the form of children’s books, songs, hymns, message at church and the beauty of creation. Despite the hard things that the enemy wishes to crush me with, the Lord keeps showing me his love and goodness.
Monday: Text # 1
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? *Have unity of mind *sympathy *brotherly love *a tender heart *a humble mind *do not repay evil for evil, reviling for reviling *instead bless *that you may obtain a blessing.
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now? I remember one discussion with a friend who was maid of honor in my wedding. We discussed how birth control can cause an early abortion and she had no problem with that as her view was that the mass of cells was not of consequence yet and that there was no point in considering such a small thing. Honestly, I wish I had a stronger argument prepared. I was a very new Christian at the time and very limply said that even at the moment of conception a fetus had a soul. Many years later, when I had opportunity to share my testimony with her in more detail, she admitted to being an atheist with the explanation that she never could believe “all that.” Again at that time, I wished I had a stronger argument prepared but only meekly shared my own story of faith and whispered a prayer for her.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? We are asked to keep our tongue from evil, do not tell lies, do good, seek peace, for the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and listening to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14) We are not likely to be harmed if we do good, but if we are we will be blessed.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? We are to give a reason for our hope in Christ with gentleness and respect so that those who slander us for our good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
Oh, Chris. You have a sweetest heart. I have had those times when I have tried to share and felt shut down by a response. I have wished I could have come up with more. She knows where you stand and that is important. 🙏
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.) He is so thoughtful, kind, careful in his responses, and wants to know the heart of the person he is answering so that his answer can reach his heart. I love the story of the noseeums.
4. What stood out to you the most and why? I love his response about how NOT believing in God doesn’t give the atheist any advantage. I wish I had thought of that with my friend. And his focus on the Love of Christ exhibited in his coming to suffer for us, which totally turns the table upside down with regard to why God allows suffering.
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
I love how he tells Eisenbach that both questions are important. His response is kind and thoughtful, never arrogant. Keller relates some of his own experiences dealing with horrific pain of the church families, as he has pastored. He has compassion, empathy and understanding. He makes a great point that it is not easier to face suffering by disbelieving in God. (Not sure if I was to put an answer here.)
4. What stood out to you the most and why?
Tim Keller has such compassion, empathy and humility. He never speaks “down” to Eisenbach. He responds the way he says is the best way to talk to one who is going through suffering: with silence, love, speaking when spoken to. When you are suffering, you don’t want a “quick fix” plan given to you. Suffering/grief is a process, one that you cannot bury, ignore, cover up or leave behind. You have to walk through it, not move on from it. Without the gospel the only comfort is “cold” comfort.”
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
He gently drew out the motive for the question.
His tone shows respect and humility…doesn’t speak down.
His humor comes out when speaking of breaking his cat.
4. What stood out to you the most and why?
I think what stood out to me was the humanness I saw and heard from Keller. He was vulnerable, even stumbling a bit in answering but yet he stuck in there and made his point.
I loved his humor about the cat, as well as their willingness to pay to have her leg fixed. Pets are a commitment and I love that they “love” their cat.🥰 I love his humanness too, Sharon. He was always so real!
Monday The Text
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? Admonitions: Be of one mind, love each other, be kind/compassionate/courteous, don’t retaliate (evil for evil) but return a blessing. Promise: This is how we are called to live, and we will inherit a blessing from the Lord.
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?I don’t recall discussing hard questions with unbelievers. I’ve responded to a question, but it never developed into a discussion.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? We should pursue peace, do good, be honest, shun evil. This righteous behavior (possible only through the power of the Holy Spirit) maintains our relationship with the Lord who watches over us and hears our prayers.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13- 14) It’s not likely that we will be punished or harmed for doing good. If we are harmed/persecuted it can be considered a blessing, for we are sharing in a small part what Jesus suffered.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? I should always be ready to give an answer to anyone questioning my faith and belief in the Lord, and questions as to why I do what I do. This is so that those who speak lies about me will be put to shame for their accusations/actions against me.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
He spent 9 years in a Catholic school and 4 years in a Jesuit prep school, then he came to Columbia and was an atheist. B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?
The European Christian church, for many years persecuted the Jews, even having po-grams on Christian Holy days. The Christian church ignored their Jewish roots and the fact that Jesus was a Jew. It would have been much less likely to happen, if the Christian church had not demonized the Jews. Gay people and other minorities were also exterminated. A good reason to study history. C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this?
Keller alludes to his question’s purpose: With so much pain and suffering in the world, how can God allow this? ~he speaks of his years dealing with other seemingly senseless sufferings, like a child being hit by a car~ it is all valid suffering, and the only proper response can be compassion~ silence, love, speaking when spoken to. The only real answer is that “it doesn’t tell why there is suffering, but it is not because He doesn’t love us”, “it is not indifference or hardness of heart” since God came down and died on the cross for us, that was because He love us. It does not tell us why God does not stop suffering, but that does not mean there is not a reason. Keller tells us to always listen so carefully that we can repeat back what was said or asked to be sure we understand. He does this here.
Tuesday Keller’s model
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.) Before answering the question, Keller wanted to clarify exactly what was being asked. That showed respect and that he was listening to understand. When Keller said the right response to someone in the midst of suffering is “silence, love, and speaking when spoken to,” models humility. There was humor in the story about the cat, but it also spoke to his point that humans suffer on a higher level than animals. More humility when Keller said he didn’t know the reason God allowed suffering, and then he found common ground with Eisenbach through philosophy saying, “Just because you can’t think of a reason, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.” Keller’s tone of voice and body language showed gentleness and respect.
4. What stood out to you the most and why? That Keller did not try to give reasons for the holocaust or suffering. I absolutely agreed with his statement about being silent, loving, etc with anyone in the midst of suffering. The way he pointed out that for whatever reason, it isn’t because God does not care for or love us, as evidence by Jesus coming to earth and suffering with/for us.
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect 3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.) – Tim showed David respect for his beliefs, he humbled himself when he said, “I don’t know why God didn’t come down to stop the Holocaust.” The humor I think was when he talked about his cat and also when he said that quote that seemed to go around in circles. Tim never made the David feel lesser for his beliefs, he didn’t argue or bring up him being an atheist in a bad way. He tried to answer the question in the most honest way he could. 4. What stood out to you the most and why? – All the ‘Christian’ schooling and teaching David had, and he ended up an atheist because of the Holocaust. It makes me question the teaching that he had. How, in twelve years of schooling, did he not see the true purpose of Jesus and all that he did for us.
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
1. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
He ensured he understood what the other man was asking him about.
Silence, love, speak when spoken to.
His illustrations of his cat ($1k surgery) were personal and also the gnats! (lol)
2. What stood out to you the most and why? “Whatever that reason from God would be, it cannot be a lack of love.”
I sure wish and pray I have Keller’s mind and wit. (Smile.)
I am super allergic to no-see-ums, and while checking on these nasty creatures, I found a DIY spray solution I can make to keep them off me! Thanks, TK and Dee, for bringing the subject up!
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
1. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
He ensured he understood what the other man was asking him about.
Silence, love, speak when spoken to.
His illustrations of his cat ($1k surgery) were personal and also the gnats! (lol)
2. What stood out to you the most and why? “Whatever that reason from God would be, it cannot be a lack of love.”
I sure wish and pray I have Keller’s mind and wit. (Smile.)
I am super allergic to no-see-ums, and while checking on these nasty creatures, I found a DIY spray solution I can make to keep them off me! Thanks, TK and Dee, for bringing the subject up!
Wednesday: Careful Listening
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
He was raised Catholic and, after being schooled in a Catholic school, became an atheist. The stickler for him was the Holocaust.
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!)
Astute would not be a description of me, but I will give this a try. (Smile). I did not have any idea why, but I went online and found out that David E has a BA in European history. Was Keller trying to specifically address European church history as compared to the political history of Europe? Not sure. Maybee Keller could have segued to religion vs. relationship with Jesus if David had asked the first question.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this? Keller tells us to always listen so carefully that we can repeat back what was said or asked to be sure we understand. He does this here.
Eisenbach is curious to hear what Christianity that Keller espouses has to say since his basis for it is mainly what his Catholic upbringing and schooling had taught him.
I am not sure what the answers are to these questions. My little mind is trying to grasp this exchange between the two men. Tim Keller is brilliant here. I thought of Rebecca Pippert as well.
Dee, this is a good lesson on careful listening and giving full attention to the other person. I can easily get distracted.
It really shows Keller’s humility and wisdom, knowing that Eisenbach had a degree in European history, that he mentioned that briefly, but did not pursue a discussion in that direction. He let Eisenbach choose the focus of the discussion. Tim Keller had such a gentle heart and always chose to glorify the Lord. Thank you for the research, Bing. It gave me a whole different view of this conversation.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
Went through 8 years of Catholic School where he says he got professional religious education and then he had 4 years of Jesuit prep school. He came out of a Catholic education an atheist.
What he struggled with after having a religious education was what happened in the holocaust. How could 6 million people be exterminated in a course of a war that took 80 million lives and there be a God?
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!)
I wonder if Bonhoeffer would have been on his mind?
Am I astute?😜
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this?
He agrees that the Holocaust is awful but as a minister he has been there for people who lost a child, which doesn’t sound like the Holocaust but it’s the same kind of misery. The same question, why in the world would God allow evil and suffering? And being through this over and over, he found the best response is silence and love.
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
Tim Keller tries to understand the man’s point of view. He also uses humor to try to explain how you can have faith God is there without actually seeing Him.
4. What stood out to you the most and why?
I think the man is very convincing in his lack of faith. I probably would have said something more on the lines of “no one ever said believing would be easy,” and referenced the book of Job, God’s faithful servant.
5. Watch just the first two minutes. A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
He went to Catholic school and came out an atheist. He couldn’t understand how God could allow the Holocaust to happen.
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!)
Is Keller trying to get the man to see that men were responsible for the horror of the Holocaust and it wasn’t just God “allowing” it to happen? The European church, made up of humans, didn’t stop the killing.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this?
He agrees that the Holocaust was awful and it’s hard to understand how God could allow it. He gives another example that is similar. A toddler that is killed by a car, and how he would have to sit with the family through it, as the pastor. He says silence is the best action.
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26 A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?
We are to not get into ignorant, foolish arguments. He asks a legitimate question.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit?
We are to not argue, but rather teach and be kind and patient.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
We may gently instruct them, and they may be changed by God, and freed of the devil’s grip, eventually.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
He talks about being silent and loving but available to those who are suffering. I’m not sure why he begins with this. Maybe to put this man in a position he understands first? We can all imagine how awful we would feel to have lost a child.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they?
Firstly, he says It doesn’t make it any easier to handle suffering by not believing in God.
The first reason is that there must be a higher law that says something (a human law) is unjust, to make it unjust.
The second reason is that God came to Earth and suffered. He suffered because He loves us.
8. Watch from minutes 4-6. A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
Keller is silly, talking about accidentally breaking the cat’s leg and having it repaired, spending $1000 in the process. He says they felt obligated to fix it!
B. What is his point with the cat story?
His cat example gives sort of a hierarchy to suffering. Humans suffer more than animals. Jesus’ suffering is more than ours.
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.)
It’s not that He didn’t love us. Otherwise He wouldn’t have come and gotten involved.
Not to get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights.
How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?
Keller doesn’t think his question is foolish and keeps it from turning into an argument.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit?
Not quarrel, be kind, able to teach and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
God could change their hearts so they learn the truth, come to their senses and escape the devil’s trap where they have been held captive by him and he can do whatever he wants.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
Silence, love and speaking when spoken to.
I felt he started there because it was his comfort zone and experience in dealing with suffering.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they?
It doesn’t make it any easier to handle or face suffering by disbelieving in God.
God Himself suffered when He came down to earth.
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
Through humor. The audience laughing at his comment, “we broke its leg by accident but we fixed it for only $1000.00, which we never in a million years thought we’d do for a cat. But, well you broke the cat you’re kind of morally obligated.”
B. What is his point with the cat story?
I’m not really sure…to be honest he lost me through that part of the conversation. Maybe because humans are on a higher pecking order?
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.)
The reason for suffering is not because God doesn’t love us. If He didn’t love us or care then He wouldn’t have come down and gotten involved. Jesus Christ voluntarily suffering on the cross goes far beyond my suffering.
***I can’t help but think, if Eisenbach is still a professor at Columbia, what is his stance on all the antisemitism protests that have and are taking place there? He seems to be so concerned about the suffering that took place during the Holocaust, but is he concerned about history repeating itself?
This interview was in 2011, way before the antisemitism at Columbia recently. I wonder, is Eisenbach a Jewish name? I looked it up and sure enough, it is!
Etymology of Eisenbach
WHAT DOES THE NAME EISENBACH MEAN?
The prominent surname Eisenbach is a proud symbol of Jewish heritage. Before the late Middle Ages, people were known only by a single name. However, as the population increased and travelers set out on their journeys, it became necessary for people to adopt a second name to identify themselves. Jewish hereditary surnames were adopted from a variety of different sources. There are three possible derivations of the surname Eisenbach. Houseofnames.com
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26 A Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?We are warned to refuse foolish and ignorant speculations. Eisenbach’s question was a meaningful question.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit ?
We are to be kind to all and teach, patient when wronged, with a gentleness to those in opposition.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
So that God can grant them repentance, leading to the knowledge of truth.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4. A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what helped most with those who are suffering. What is it~ and why so you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
Silence, love and speaking when spoken to. I think he started here, because it softened and redirected the questions away from being argumentative. B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheist should be slow to discard God. What are they?
1.) It is no easier to go through suffering by disbelieving in God.
2.) Only if there is a higher law that says it is unjust. God came down to earth and suffered. He showed that He loved humanity 8. Watch from minutes 4-6. A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
The way Keller tells the cat story is done with some humor to lighten the seriousness of the subject. B. What is his point with the cat story?
To show that human suffering is different and more than animal suffering….(some of this overlaps I’m my answers. )
C. Why does Keller say that while we many not know the reason for suffering, we know what it
I don’t know the reason He has not stopped evil. But the reason that He does not stop evil is not because He does not love us.
Wednesday: Careful Listening
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him? Eisenbach went to a Catholic school for eight years (calls it professional religious education), and then he went to a Jesuit preparatory school for four years. At the end of this twelve years of “religious education,” he was an atheist. His main question was how could the Holocaust happen (6 million exterminated, 80 million died) and there be a God?
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!) If I was the one listening to Eisenbach, I would have noticed that he went to a “Jesuit” high school. The Roman Catholic church, and Jesuits in particular, were very involved in education and government in Europe. I’m sure that the history would have been taught in those parochial schools, and would have given rise to the question of how the church allowed this to happen.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this? The first thing Keller says is that he agrees with Eisenbach, ..”the Holocaust was awful.” Then Keller speaks of examples of human suffering now, not like the Holocaust in scale, but similar in suffering and misery. He restates the question as to why God would allow it to happen, basically saying that anyone might feel the same way.
Wednesday: Careful Listening
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him? He comes out an atheist after 12 years of religious education because of the holocaust-he wants to know how God can allow such suffering.
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!) Keller seems to be saying, God allows free will so look what people have done or allowed. A minority formed a resistance against Hitler, but the majority went along with his terrible plan when they could have refused. The problem was very few were willing to suffer the cost, and it was life or death. Without faith, this wasn’t something anyone could sacrifice on their own-one would need faith in God to stand up to Hitler. Even those with faith really struggled with what was the right thing to do in many instances.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this? He mentions hard questions of suffering with those he pastors-like a two year old run over by a car. He talks about listening to those who are suffering and only speaking when spoken to. Keller tells us to always listen so carefully that we can repeat back what was said or asked to be sure we understand. He does this here.
I love your thoughtful answer to B., Chris. I wonder if people lacked knowledge of who Hilter really was. The news was so different than it is now. It is puzzling. I do think they had a lot of fear.
Thursday: Kind to Everyone, Gently Instructed
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category? Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies that produce quarrels. He is troubled that he has been through 12 years of religious education and cannot reconcile evil, suffering in this world with a good God.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit? Not quarrelsome, kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26? The person may come to their senses and be released from the devil’s foothold.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question? He says silence and love, speaking when spoken to helps most.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they? 1. It doesn’t make it easier to not believe in God. 2. There is a higher law than natural order.
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here? Keller speaks about the $1,000 they spent on relieving their cat’s suffering a broken leg. We laugh because its a cat and he is spending so much money but it provides a comparison to the degree of pain and suffering people experience.
B. What is his point with the cat story? The cat doesn’t suffer in the way people do, and Jesus coming to suffer on earth is even more. We cannot ignore the fact that Christ came to suffer the ultimate punishment for our salvation. And once again, the question should not be why must we suffer, but why would he suffer for me?
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.) it can’t be indifference on God’s part to our suffering or he would not have come to earth and suffered himself to provide our salvation-this requires belief in the gospel. We can’t assume there is no reason for suffering, just because we cannot see a reason.
Friday: But why didn’t God stop the holocaust?
9. Watch to the end
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? I love his honesty -it’s disarming. What other answer could he give?
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?” You can’t assume because there is no reason you can think of that God would have stopped the Holocaust, it doesn’t mean there isn’t one-this is cold comfort without the gospel. And the gospel says, whatever that reason would be, it can’t be a lack of love.
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that does mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
Oops.
C. I use this on myself daily. I keep Nahum 1:7 on the wall beside my bed and read it nightly when feeling overwhelmed with suffering. “The Lord is good, a refuge in the day of trouble; he cares for those who trust in him.
His response is genius. One cannot argue with his response.
10. I need to answer this later….
Thursday: Kind to Everyone, Gently Instructed
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category? We are warned to avoid foolish and ignorant questions that arouse controversy and strife. Eisenbachrelates his background of religious education, of having considered thoughtfully, and that he had a sticking point that he couldn’t get past.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit? Gentleness, patience, meekness, willingness to teach
C. Why, according to verses 25-26? So that God might convict the person, grant them repentance, open their hearts/minds to truth, and release them from captivity/bondage of sin/Satan.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question? The letters MLK wrote from Birmingham jail: How do you know a human deed or law is unjust? Only if there is a higher law that says it’s unjust. I think this was brilliant of Keller, because the recognition of God has to be the beginning of any truthful answer. Keller is questioning why anyone would consider something unjust, and that there has to be a higher law that we instinctively recognize.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they? Without God, there is no reason for moral outrage other than, “I don’t like it.” The second reason Keller brings up is the Christian view that God came down to earth (Jesus) and suffered and dies on the cross (which he then elaborates).
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here? There is relief brought about through humor. Although it’s interesting the Eisenbach’s comment, when Keller says they fixed the cat’s leg, is that Keller was kind of morally obligated to do so. That goes right back to what Keller said about a higher law, even when dealing with animals.
B. What is his point with the cat story? The Kellers loved their cat, and they willingly spent $1000 to have its leg fixed. Jesus came to earth, suffered and died because of God’s love for us. The point is that love is evidenced by action and is personal.
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.) The reason for suffering can not be indifference, hardness of heart, or lack of love on God’s part.
I agree — I missed the main point of his cat story. I just kept wondering if it is true that animals suffer less because their pain is primarily physical, but now I see his main point and it is so good.
9. Watch to the end A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain. Keller says he does not know why God did not stop the suffering, but it can’t be indifference or hardness of heart, or that He doesn’t love us. I like that Keller is honest and he is winsome in his response. He never puts down someone for asking a question. I liked that he said that the gospel keeps off the indifference. Without it, we would have only a visceral response, a cold comfort. B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
Because we cannot see something, it does not mean it is not there. Just because we don’t know an answer does not mean there isn’t one. C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God not doing this does that mean that God does not have one? What do you think of the response? I like that response because it is honest and true. We are not in a position to understand all of God’s ways, but we know that they are ultimately for good. 10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage : We are born again to a living hope; an inheritance which is imperishable and undefined reserved for us in heaven; salvation ready to be revealed in time; distressed by various trials, so proof of our faith will be more precious than gold, tested by fire; will easily in praise, glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus; you do not see Him now, but believe in Him….obtaining as the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Thursday: Kind to Everyone, Gently Instructed
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?
We are warned against foolish and stupid arguments because they produce quarrels. David sincerely wants Tim’s input.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit?
We must be kind and able to teach.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
To lead others to the truth and not be trapped by the devil.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
Silence, love, and speaking when spoken to. Maybe Tim is saying that we as humans do not need to have the answer to everything. Silence, sitting shiva with the suffering person, is better than words. We love them through our presence and only reply when we are spoken to.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they?
It is not any easier to handle suffering by disbelieving in God. Our response is only visceral and can only be because we do not like suffering. no consideration of a higher moral law.
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
Keller made it personal and brought humor. He said they paid 1K to have the cat fixed after they broke it. They had a moral obligation (David E. said this) to the cat.
B. What is his point with the cat story?
I am not sure if I got this. But the Kellers had a moral obligation to the cat to get it fixed. They spent 1K on the cat! We humans think along this line for animals. Can a God who sent Jesus to die and suffer for us think any less of human suffering?
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.)
It is not that He does not care or is not loving towards us; it cannot be remoteness or why He would get involved by sending Jesus, not indifference or hardness of heart.
Isah 55 comes to mind, but would this be too “preachy” when shared? For my thoughts are higher than your thoughts, my ways are higher than your ways.
Listen, be kind and gentle. So hard, but for the grace of God!
Thank you, Dee and Patti, for the feedback! That question made me think hard. I really appreciate short studies like this that help me seek the mind of Christ. Your questions, Dee, are thought-provoking. And Keller is superb.
Friday: But why didn’t God stop the holocaust?
9. Watch to the end
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain.
“I don’t know.” No, it has not surprised me, and this does show Tim Keller’s humility. “If you can’t think of a reason, that does not mean there can’t be one.” I learned that it is okay to say, “I don’t know”.
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
“If you can’t think of a reason, that does not mean there can’t be one.”
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that doesn’t mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
I think this is golden! I would like to see his illustration in the future! I think of the elderly in nursing homes who are bedridden for so long. My heart always aches for them.
10. We have listened to sermons on this before, where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
To prove the genuineness of our faith, for the praise, glory, and honor of Jesus. This is an opportunity to serve others.
9. Watch to the end A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain.
He did not know why God didn’t intervene with the Holocaust. Yes, I was surprised. Keller knew way more than I do about the Bible. I would think he would have had an answer. Or, was he trying to be more relatable to the man?
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
You have to have faith.
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that does mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
I kind of think it’s a cop out. But, it is also the truth. I may need to use it! Our ways are not God’s. It’s also a comfort to know we don’t have all the answers, but He does. I always go back to Job. God’s faithful servant. He never knew why, but he was faithful to the end.
10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
Your faith helps to endure the suffering and trials. We must remember that this suffering and endurance means we will have praise, honor, and glory in heaven.
Our reward for trusting in Him is salvation of our soul.
In human terms it is a cop out, but in terms of our faith it shows an understanding of our place in regards to God-his ways are higher and we cannot understand. Thank you Lord for knowing more than I and help me to remember, you have a reason for all that I cannot see and your ways are best. The fact that God is all knowing gives comfort but we must be willing to surrender ourselves to his authority and be willing to go wherever he sends us. Thank you Abraham, Noah, Jacob, Isaac, and so many hero’s of the faith for showing us how to do this.
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain.
He didn’t know what the reason was.
No. When people would ask why I believed in a God who would take my child, I always said I really didn’t know His reason, but that I believed in His Sovereignty and trusted He knew best.
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
Just because we may not understand or have a reason doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that does mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
I agree!
10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
I don’t deserve salvation but because of His great mercy and Jesus rising from the dead I have been born again.
I will have to endure trials for a little while, but these trials will show my faith is genuine.
Saturday:
11. What have you learned about being a winsome witness from Keller and the Scriptures?
I would ask for clarification by repeating what the other person said to make sure I understand. I should listen well, know the Scriptures, and use humor when appropriate.
12. We are to be prepared to give an answer. Share two things you might say in response to why does a good God allow evil and suffering?
I don’t know.
But because I can’t think of a reason, that does not mean God does not have one.
We may not know why God allows suffering, but we do know what it is not. It is not out of indifference or hard-heartedness or a lack of love. He sent His only son to suffer and to die for each one of us.
I pray I will remember these things from Keller when I am presented with an opportunity.
11. What have you learned about being a winsome witness from Keller and the Scriptures?
Try to understand the person’s viewpoint. Ask questions. Use humor.
12. We are to be prepared to give an answer. Share two things you might say in response to why does a good God allow evil and suffering?
I think He wants to draw us near to Him. We have choices; He allows us to choose Him or not. Experiencing suffering makes us want Him more. Even people who don’t practice their faith, when they are in the midst of suffering, cry out for God. He is hope to help them. Christ suffered at the hands of men. He took our sin which shows how much He loves us.
The Bible says we will have glory and honor if we stand firm in our faith. The world is a fallen place where evil exists. It is that way because of our human-ness. Look at a person like Corrie Ten-Boom. She suffered greatly at the hands of the Nazis and stood firm in her faith. God took care of her and used her family for good.
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1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week? I have experienced a renewing in my soul for community with God and other Christians this week. I have been tempted to hole up in my house rather than go out and participate in events that have been going on this week. It has done my soul good to go out and be a part of His work and His family.
I love hearing this, Dawn. “Soul” awareness!
Thank you for sharing this sweet praise, Dawn. I love how doing this fed your soul.
Dawn, this encouraged me as my temptation is the same…good for you!
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9?
Never repay evil with evil, but give a blessing instead. That is our purpose, as Christians. Have compassion, be humble, be kind, for others may not remember what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel. Be an emissary for Jesus and do not defend yourself, especially with cruel words. I love this verse: “The Lord redeems the soul of His servants, And none of those who take refuge in the Lord will be condemned.” Psalm 34:22
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?
I struggle with the evil on the world, especially against the innocent. I don’t understand all the ways of God, but I don’t feel compelled to argue about things like that.( I do not like arguments or confrontations.) All I can do is trust Him. I have said this to unbelievers: that God has given us a lot of evidence of who He is, yet we have a choice to believe or not believe. If we believe and there is no God, we do not gain or lose; but if we do not believe and there is a God, (which I truly believe emphatically!) then we have lost eternal life. If we do believe and GOD does exist, we have gained everything! for eternity. Arguments can deteriorate a relationship, but sharing a loving answer to prayer that has helped you to see the reality of God, can give an unbeliever something to think about.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12?
We need to control our tongues from evil and our lips from speaking deceit. I must turn my heart from evil and do only good. We should seek peace and harmony in relationships. Our behavior, attitude and choices in life can demonstrate who we are and how we view God, more than an argumentative discussion. Be discerning in how you represent Jesus.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14)
We do not encounter harm through an act of kindness. If we do suffer for our kindness, it brings a special blessing to our souls. We are not to fear those who try to intimidate us as believers. Believers are to only to fear/revere only God.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why?
We are to have an inner commitment to Christ in our hearts. We should be ready to make a defense to those who ask about our faith. When we defend our faith we should do it with humility, and a gentleness and reverence. Our defense should be given with love, never with arrogance, pride or degrading words or attitude.
This from Patti — I think from Pascal:
If we believe and there is no God, we do not gain or lose; but if we do not believe and there is a God, (which I truly believe emphatically!) then we have lost eternal life. If we do believe and GOD does exist, we have gained everything!
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
God is answering prayers in the relationships of some of my family members. I pray that I will represent Jesus well, in my conversations. He is doing healing in His way and His time. My Piper dog is stabilized and doing well. I do have a heart for God’s creatures.
Good to hear about family. And yes you do have a heart for God’s creatures.
Patti, my prayer is the same for me as I will pray for you…” I pray that I will represent Jesus well, in my conversations.” I’m so glad to hear that Piper is stabilized! I can relate to having a heart for God’s creatures😊❤️
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
We had our two grandsons Wednesday through Sunday this last week and I am so thankful that we can be a part of their lives. I do understand why God gave children to young people as it was hard to keep up with their energy. We took them to their church yesterday as that was their choice and we so enjoyed it.
Oh, Sharon, This make my heart sing! What a great a time and you are making memories that will last forever. I agree! so wonderful that we have our kids when we’re young and energetic!
Yes — gives us compassion for Laura who is raising her grands!
Oh Sharon, I can totally relate to this “I do understand why God gave children to young people as it was hard to keep up with their energy.”
Sunday:
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week? – My mind still seems to be in a whirlwind after my mom’s passing, and I missed putting an outing on my calendar. When my friend texted and asked if we were still coming, I was like, “oh man, I thought it was next week”. What I received back was compassion and understanding. She told me to give myself some grace. God is so good to bring people into our lives that soften the blows we give ourselves.
Julie, you continue to be in my prayers and your friend responding with compassion and understanding is a good example for me…thanks for sharing.
You are in my prayers, Julie. Grief consumes us, and it takes a long time to soften. What a blessing that your friend has such compassion and empathy.
Love your friend’s response, Julie — I agree!
Monday: Text # 1
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? – We are to have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart and a humble mind. We are not to repay evil with evil but in return to bless. We act in these ways because we were called to be like Christ and will obtain a blessing when we do.
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now? – I can’t think of anything off the top of my head except for the conversation I had a couple of weeks ago with my bonus son. He’s mentioned to me a couple of times now that he talks to the dead. When he brings it up, I tell him he’s talking to the devil and that is not a good thing to be doing. I am not a confrontational person so when I do discuss things with unbelievers I come across as not being very bold. I speak in a softer way. I don’t like to compromise a friendship or a conversation, but I also want to be bold for Christ as He has called me to be. I need to work on this and remember to be gentle in my speech.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? – If we want to enjoy good days and love life we are to not speak deceitfully or say evil things. We are to not do evil things but instead turn away from any evil. We are to speak peace and pursue peace in our lives. Staying pure in heart and finding peace will bring the presence of God in our lives. The Lord turns away from those who do evil.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14) – Harm will be far from us if we do good. But if it does come our way, we are to suffer for righteousness’ sake and have no fear of them, we are to not be troubled in these times.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? – But we are to honor God in our hearts and stand steadfast in His ways and defend the gospel. When we stand strong and have a good conscience, those who revile against us may be put to shame.
I love this, Julie: I don’t like to compromise a friendship or a conversation, but I also want to be bold for Christ as He has called me to be. I need to work on this and remember to be gentle in my speech.
Monday: Text # 1
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9?
Be of one mind.
Sympathize with each other.
Love each other.
Be tender hearted.
Keep a humble attitude.
Don’t repay evil for evil.
When you’re insulted don’t retaliate with an insult, but pay them back with a blessing as this is what God has called us do and He will grant you His blessing.
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?
In a discussion with disagreements I was very careful in how I responded, tying to see their side but giving my view point too. Seeing that we were not going to come to any agreement I finally said, “I think we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.” I did not want our different views to end us being mad at one another.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12?
How to behave…
Keep your tongue from speaking evil and your lips from telling lies.
Turn away from evil.
Do good.
Search for peace, and work to maintain it.
Why…
So you may enjoy life.
See many happy days.
The Lord’s eyes watch over those who do right.
His ears are open to their prayers.
He turns His face against those who do evil.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good?
We’ll be harmed or suffer .
But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14)
God will reward us so we don’t need to worry or be afraid of their threats.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why?
Worship Christ as Lord of our life.
Be ready to answer and explain about the hope we have as a believer when asked.
Do this in a gentle and respectful way.
Keep our conscience clear, so if people speak against us, they’ll be ashamed when they see what a good life we live because we belong to Christ.
Sunday:
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
My husband has been volunteering at the food pantry and has befriended and given some small jobs to a few men going there. Last Friday, one of the men came to help me with the garden. He is in his 50s, has some mental health issues, but can work some. He does not have much and lives in a low-income apartment here in town. He talked about some friends who are having health issues. I sensed a lonely, downtrodden man and couldn’t help but feel sorry for him. He has come to church before. That evening, he called my husband to thank us for giving him a job so he could pay his rent. I realized that no matter how small, God can use us to show his goodness to others. He calls us to do what is in front of us. I pray that Carl will know Jesus soon as his Savior and Lord.
I am thankful to have been able to read all the comments from last week! Wow-that was some heavy stuff, but insightful about hell.
What a blessing you and Richard were to Carl. I pray that had will come to know Jesus.
Monday: Text # 1
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9?
Admonitions: be like-minded, love another, be compassionate and humble; repay evil with blessing
Warnings: do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult
Promise: You were called to do these things to inherit a blessing
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?
I was talking to a mother of one of our teens at church, and she asked a question about religion. She asked me if she needed to change religion if she were to be a Christian. I said that religion does not make us a Christian, but a relationship with Christ does. Then, she proceeded to tell me about what good things she does. I offered to meet with her at some other time, as her little son was fidgeting and I could tell they needed to go. A follow-up call later for a meeting time did not materialize as her schedule (6 kids!) got crazier. I keep in touch with her through texts, but haven’t had any more conversations with her. I looked back at that exchange and thought I could have done better. Nevertheless, I continue to pray for her, for a time with her, and the Lord’s will. I also have to remind myself that God can use other people to draw her closer to Him. I can see myself as one link and be content with that, and be open to another opportunity from the Lord to connect with her.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12?
Keep our tongue from evil and deceitful speech; seek peace and pursue it.
The Lord has his eyes on us, and He will answer our prayers.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14)
No harm will come to us. We are still blessed for doing good and should not be discouraged from doing so.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why?
Revere Christ. Our eyes should always be on Jesus. Be prepared to share my hope in Christ. Do these things with gentleness and respect and with a clear conscience.
Why: so that others who speak maliciously against our good behavior would be ashamed of their slander.
I love your talk with the young mom. Don’t we always feel we can do better? Praying for your words with her to open her heart as you say to perhaps others who can lead her further to Christ. I am sure your words softened her heart and peaked curiousity about Christ.
So true, Chris. Don’t we always feel like we could do better?
I love how you looked at your talk with the young mom, as maybe you were one link, and you are content with that. What a beautiful way to look at this encounter. You gave her the gospel in a sentence, you made a connection, and I pray that you can do a follow up, in God’s time. (It can be hard to have a deep conversation with a fidgety little one. ) I also love “our eyes should always be fixed on Jesus!”
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? We need to be humble, loving, sympathetic, tender. We shouldn’t repay evil for evil or seek vengeance. If we do this we will obtain a blessing.
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now? I had many conversations with an unbelieving coworker, that was a friend of mine, when I was younger and I’m afraid that I was harsh and sanctimonious. We were both pregnant at the time and I declined to do a prenatal test for genetic defects that she opted to do. The things that I said about why I wasn’t getting the test made me sound like I was a better and more loving mother than she was, because I would accept my baby no matter what and she would consider aborting hers. All of my reasons were because “I was a Christian” and wouldn’t do something as horrible as killing my child. I’ve always regretted how mean, unsympathetic and cold I was about the situation. She remained my friend and I watched her son in the mornings before I went to work. I’ve always hoped that she wouldn’t remember the thoughtless, unchristian comments that I made.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? Keep our tongues from evil and our lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil. Do good. Pursue peace. The Lord listens to the prayers of a righteous person who seeks him, but turns away from those who do evil.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? That you will be harmed. But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14) You will be blessed if you suffer for righteousness sake.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? Honor Christ in your hearts. Have a good conscience. Answer people’s questions about the hope that is in you kindness and gentleness. So that even if they speak ill of you there will be nothing to prove them right.
That is interesting, about the prenatal testing. I had one done because they told me to. I went to church each week and considered myself a Christian, but did not know the viewpoint you had. Wow! They thought I would get an abortion so they made me have the test? That is so negative. Incidentally, the baby I had to have the test for was Sarah, our daughter. I thought they wanted us to have the test in case we had to prepare for a child with a disability! Ha! I’m so stupid! I’m glad it all worked out for you in the end.
I also was offered that prenatal testing and I don’t remember why but I denied it as I didn’t see any point in discovering problems that could not be addressed prior to the birth and I remember reading stats that showed inaccuracies in the test. Besides all this, I did not believe in abortion and I do think this was a part of the reasoning put forward for the test. Mine was offered at an Army hospital in Louisiana and I got the feeling they were required to offer the test, but there was absolutely no pressure to accept.
I love the humility in your story, Dawn!
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9?
We are to “be of one mind, love one another, sympathize, be tenderhearted, and humble.”
We are to also, “repay evil with evil, don’t pay back evil with evil, instead we should offer a blessing.”
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?
I have defended knowing Jesus to my colleagues over time. They have patronized me and I have backed down. I have also tried to explain, too vigorously, and was ignored. I have tried to live a life of kindness and gentleness toward them lately and that does seem better. One of them actually contributed to our upcoming mission trip.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12?
To live a happy life we are to not speak evil and no lies. Do good and search for peace.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14)
The Lord will watch over us. He will answer our prayers.
No one will harm us for doing good. The Lord will make sure of this. We should not worry.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why?
We are to worship with Jesus as the center of our life. When asked about hope we have to be ready to answer. We should answer in gentleness. People will see us in our lives and know the truth about Christ.
I love that you see a response in the form of a contribution to your mission trip. That does seem to be fruit for your labor!
My answer to 2 should say that we are to NOT repay evil with evil. Whoops! Ugh.
Sunday:
1. How did you experience the goodness of God in a world of suffering this last week?
In my world of suffering, the good Lord has given me scripture, kind words from friends and family, and reminders of His love in the form of children’s books, songs, hymns, message at church and the beauty of creation. Despite the hard things that the enemy wishes to crush me with, the Lord keeps showing me his love and goodness.
Monday: Text # 1
Francis Schaeffer said that what will be remembered 10, 20, or 30 years after an argument is not what was said but the tone. Even if you stumble at answering, being kind, loving, and gentle will go a long way.
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? *Have unity of mind *sympathy *brotherly love *a tender heart *a humble mind *do not repay evil for evil, reviling for reviling *instead bless *that you may obtain a blessing.
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now? I remember one discussion with a friend who was maid of honor in my wedding. We discussed how birth control can cause an early abortion and she had no problem with that as her view was that the mass of cells was not of consequence yet and that there was no point in considering such a small thing. Honestly, I wish I had a stronger argument prepared. I was a very new Christian at the time and very limply said that even at the moment of conception a fetus had a soul. Many years later, when I had opportunity to share my testimony with her in more detail, she admitted to being an atheist with the explanation that she never could believe “all that.” Again at that time, I wished I had a stronger argument prepared but only meekly shared my own story of faith and whispered a prayer for her.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? We are asked to keep our tongue from evil, do not tell lies, do good, seek peace, for the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and listening to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13-14) We are not likely to be harmed if we do good, but if we are we will be blessed.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? We are to give a reason for our hope in Christ with gentleness and respect so that those who slander us for our good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
Oh, Chris. You have a sweetest heart. I have had those times when I have tried to share and felt shut down by a response. I have wished I could have come up with more. She knows where you stand and that is important. 🙏
Chris, I think your answer about the soul of the mass of cells is truly lovely. I have never heard that and wow! It was a beautiful answer.
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.) He is so thoughtful, kind, careful in his responses, and wants to know the heart of the person he is answering so that his answer can reach his heart. I love the story of the noseeums.
4. What stood out to you the most and why? I love his response about how NOT believing in God doesn’t give the atheist any advantage. I wish I had thought of that with my friend. And his focus on the Love of Christ exhibited in his coming to suffer for us, which totally turns the table upside down with regard to why God allows suffering.
I agree with your Keller assessment.
I agree with Dee. Love your assessment of Keller, Chris.
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
I love how he tells Eisenbach that both questions are important. His response is kind and thoughtful, never arrogant. Keller relates some of his own experiences dealing with horrific pain of the church families, as he has pastored. He has compassion, empathy and understanding. He makes a great point that it is not easier to face suffering by disbelieving in God. (Not sure if I was to put an answer here.)
4. What stood out to you the most and why?
Tim Keller has such compassion, empathy and humility. He never speaks “down” to Eisenbach. He responds the way he says is the best way to talk to one who is going through suffering: with silence, love, speaking when spoken to. When you are suffering, you don’t want a “quick fix” plan given to you. Suffering/grief is a process, one that you cannot bury, ignore, cover up or leave behind. You have to walk through it, not move on from it. Without the gospel the only comfort is “cold” comfort.”
Good observations, Patti. He is such a model of compassion.
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
He gently drew out the motive for the question.
His tone shows respect and humility…doesn’t speak down.
His humor comes out when speaking of breaking his cat.
4. What stood out to you the most and why?
I think what stood out to me was the humanness I saw and heard from Keller. He was vulnerable, even stumbling a bit in answering but yet he stuck in there and made his point.
I agree, Sharon. I loved his humanness in spending 1,000 on his cat.
I loved his humor about the cat, as well as their willingness to pay to have her leg fixed. Pets are a commitment and I love that they “love” their cat.🥰 I love his humanness too, Sharon. He was always so real!
Monday The Text
2. Read 1 Peter 3:8-16
A. What warnings, admonitions, and promise do you find in verses 8-9? Admonitions: Be of one mind, love each other, be kind/compassionate/courteous, don’t retaliate (evil for evil) but return a blessing. Promise: This is how we are called to live, and we will inherit a blessing from the Lord.
B. Share a time you were in a hard discussion with an unbeliever and followed the above or did not. What happened, and what are your reflections now?I don’t recall discussing hard questions with unbelievers. I’ve responded to a question, but it never developed into a discussion.
C. Now Peter quotes from Psalm 34 telling us how to behave and why. What does he ask us to do and why in verses 10-12? We should pursue peace, do good, be honest, shun evil. This righteous behavior (possible only through the power of the Holy Spirit) maintains our relationship with the Lord who watches over us and hears our prayers.
D. What is not likely to happen if we do good? But if it does, what consolation do we have? (Verses 13- 14) It’s not likely that we will be punished or harmed for doing good. If we are harmed/persecuted it can be considered a blessing, for we are sharing in a small part what Jesus suffered.
E. What are we exhorted to do in verses 15-16? Why? I should always be ready to give an answer to anyone questioning my faith and belief in the Lord, and questions as to why I do what I do. This is so that those who speak lies about me will be put to shame for their accusations/actions against me.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
He spent 9 years in a Catholic school and 4 years in a Jesuit prep school, then he came to Columbia and was an atheist.
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?
The European Christian church, for many years persecuted the Jews, even having po-grams on Christian Holy days. The Christian church ignored their Jewish roots and the fact that Jesus was a Jew. It would have been much less likely to happen, if the Christian church had not demonized the Jews. Gay people and other minorities were also exterminated. A good reason to study history.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this?
Keller alludes to his question’s purpose: With so much pain and suffering in the world, how can God allow this? ~he speaks of his years dealing with other seemingly senseless sufferings, like a child being hit by a car~ it is all valid suffering, and the only proper response can be compassion~ silence, love, speaking when spoken to. The only real answer is that “it doesn’t tell why there is suffering, but it is not because He doesn’t love us”, “it is not indifference or hardness of heart” since God came down and died on the cross for us, that was because He love us. It does not tell us why God does not stop suffering, but that does not mean there is not a reason.
Keller tells us to always listen so carefully that we can repeat back what was said or asked to be sure we understand. He does this here.
Tuesday Keller’s model
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.) Before answering the question, Keller wanted to clarify exactly what was being asked. That showed respect and that he was listening to understand. When Keller said the right response to someone in the midst of suffering is “silence, love, and speaking when spoken to,” models humility. There was humor in the story about the cat, but it also spoke to his point that humans suffer on a higher level than animals. More humility when Keller said he didn’t know the reason God allowed suffering, and then he found common ground with Eisenbach through philosophy saying, “Just because you can’t think of a reason, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.” Keller’s tone of voice and body language showed gentleness and respect.
4. What stood out to you the most and why? That Keller did not try to give reasons for the holocaust or suffering. I absolutely agreed with his statement about being silent, loving, etc with anyone in the midst of suffering. The way he pointed out that for whatever reason, it isn’t because God does not care for or love us, as evidence by Jesus coming to earth and suffering with/for us.
I too like when he says he doesn’t know the reason, but he knows what the reason is not.
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.) – Tim showed David respect for his beliefs, he humbled himself when he said, “I don’t know why God didn’t come down to stop the Holocaust.” The humor I think was when he talked about his cat and also when he said that quote that seemed to go around in circles. Tim never made the David feel lesser for his beliefs, he didn’t argue or bring up him being an atheist in a bad way. He tried to answer the question in the most honest way he could.
4. What stood out to you the most and why? – All the ‘Christian’ schooling and teaching David had, and he ended up an atheist because of the Holocaust. It makes me question the teaching that he had. How, in twelve years of schooling, did he not see the true purpose of Jesus and all that he did for us.
Good point about his schooling.
I was puzzled by that schooling too….I don’t know how Jesuit schools teach. Do most Catholic schools just use the Daily missal?
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
1. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
He ensured he understood what the other man was asking him about.
Silence, love, speak when spoken to.
His illustrations of his cat ($1k surgery) were personal and also the gnats! (lol)
2. What stood out to you the most and why?
“Whatever that reason from God would be, it cannot be a lack of love.”
I sure wish and pray I have Keller’s mind and wit. (Smile.)
I am super allergic to no-see-ums, and while checking on these nasty creatures, I found a DIY spray solution I can make to keep them off me! Thanks, TK and Dee, for bringing the subject up!
Tuesday: Keller’s Model of Gentleness and Respect
1. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
He ensured he understood what the other man was asking him about.
Silence, love, speak when spoken to.
His illustrations of his cat ($1k surgery) were personal and also the gnats! (lol)
2. What stood out to you the most and why?
“Whatever that reason from God would be, it cannot be a lack of love.”
I sure wish and pray I have Keller’s mind and wit. (Smile.)
I am super allergic to no-see-ums, and while checking on these nasty creatures, I found a DIY spray solution I can make to keep them off me! Thanks, TK and Dee, for bringing the subject up!
Wednesday: Careful Listening
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
He was raised Catholic and, after being schooled in a Catholic school, became an atheist. The stickler for him was the Holocaust.
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!)
Astute would not be a description of me, but I will give this a try. (Smile). I did not have any idea why, but I went online and found out that David E has a BA in European history. Was Keller trying to specifically address European church history as compared to the political history of Europe? Not sure. Maybee Keller could have segued to religion vs. relationship with Jesus if David had asked the first question.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this?
Keller tells us to always listen so carefully that we can repeat back what was said or asked to be sure we understand. He does this here.
Eisenbach is curious to hear what Christianity that Keller espouses has to say since his basis for it is mainly what his Catholic upbringing and schooling had taught him.
I am not sure what the answers are to these questions. My little mind is trying to grasp this exchange between the two men. Tim Keller is brilliant here. I thought of Rebecca Pippert as well.
Dee, this is a good lesson on careful listening and giving full attention to the other person. I can easily get distracted.
I suspect too he would have loved to have contrasted religion with the gospel.
Yes, Rebecca Pippert is so good.
How wise you are to look up David Eisenbach, bing. Such great thoughts. I agree, “this is a great lesson on careful listening.” Thank you, Dee!
It really shows Keller’s humility and wisdom, knowing that Eisenbach had a degree in European history, that he mentioned that briefly, but did not pursue a discussion in that direction. He let Eisenbach choose the focus of the discussion. Tim Keller had such a gentle heart and always chose to glorify the Lord. Thank you for the research, Bing. It gave me a whole different view of this conversation.
Wednesday: Careful Listening
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
Went through 8 years of Catholic School where he says he got professional religious education and then he had 4 years of Jesuit prep school. He came out of a Catholic education an atheist.
What he struggled with after having a religious education was what happened in the holocaust. How could 6 million people be exterminated in a course of a war that took 80 million lives and there be a God?
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!)
I wonder if Bonhoeffer would have been on his mind?
Am I astute?😜
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this?
He agrees that the Holocaust is awful but as a minister he has been there for people who lost a child, which doesn’t sound like the Holocaust but it’s the same kind of misery. The same question, why in the world would God allow evil and suffering? And being through this over and over, he found the best response is silence and love.
That would have been a great opportunity to bring up Bonhoeffer. Very astute! 🙂
I never thought of Bonhoeffer! Love that you are astute!
3. Watch Keller’s discussion of the above and find examples of his model of gentleness, respect, humility, and even humor. (We’ll move on to his answers next.)
Tim Keller tries to understand the man’s point of view. He also uses humor to try to explain how you can have faith God is there without actually seeing Him.
4. What stood out to you the most and why?
I think the man is very convincing in his lack of faith. I probably would have said something more on the lines of “no one ever said believing would be easy,” and referenced the book of Job, God’s faithful servant.
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him?
He went to Catholic school and came out an atheist. He couldn’t understand how God could allow the Holocaust to happen.
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!)
Is Keller trying to get the man to see that men were responsible for the horror of the Holocaust and it wasn’t just God “allowing” it to happen? The European church, made up of humans, didn’t stop the killing.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this?
He agrees that the Holocaust was awful and it’s hard to understand how God could allow it. He gives another example that is similar. A toddler that is killed by a car, and how he would have to sit with the family through it, as the pastor. He says silence is the best action.
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?
We are to not get into ignorant, foolish arguments. He asks a legitimate question.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit?
We are to not argue, but rather teach and be kind and patient.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
We may gently instruct them, and they may be changed by God, and freed of the devil’s grip, eventually.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
He talks about being silent and loving but available to those who are suffering. I’m not sure why he begins with this. Maybe to put this man in a position he understands first? We can all imagine how awful we would feel to have lost a child.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they?
Firstly, he says It doesn’t make it any easier to handle suffering by not believing in God.
The first reason is that there must be a higher law that says something (a human law) is unjust, to make it unjust.
The second reason is that God came to Earth and suffered. He suffered because He loves us.
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
Keller is silly, talking about accidentally breaking the cat’s leg and having it repaired, spending $1000 in the process. He says they felt obligated to fix it!
B. What is his point with the cat story?
His cat example gives sort of a hierarchy to suffering. Humans suffer more than animals. Jesus’ suffering is more than ours.
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.)
It’s not that He didn’t love us. Otherwise He wouldn’t have come and gotten involved.
Thorough answers, Laura!
Thursday: Kind to Everyone, Gently Instructed
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23?
Not to get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights.
How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?
Keller doesn’t think his question is foolish and keeps it from turning into an argument.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit?
Not quarrel, be kind, able to teach and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
God could change their hearts so they learn the truth, come to their senses and escape the devil’s trap where they have been held captive by him and he can do whatever he wants.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
Silence, love and speaking when spoken to.
I felt he started there because it was his comfort zone and experience in dealing with suffering.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they?
It doesn’t make it any easier to handle or face suffering by disbelieving in God.
God Himself suffered when He came down to earth.
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
Through humor. The audience laughing at his comment, “we broke its leg by accident but we fixed it for only $1000.00, which we never in a million years thought we’d do for a cat. But, well you broke the cat you’re kind of morally obligated.”
B. What is his point with the cat story?
I’m not really sure…to be honest he lost me through that part of the conversation. Maybe because humans are on a higher pecking order?
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.)
The reason for suffering is not because God doesn’t love us. If He didn’t love us or care then He wouldn’t have come down and gotten involved. Jesus Christ voluntarily suffering on the cross goes far beyond my suffering.
***I can’t help but think, if Eisenbach is still a professor at Columbia, what is his stance on all the antisemitism protests that have and are taking place there? He seems to be so concerned about the suffering that took place during the Holocaust, but is he concerned about history repeating itself?
Sharon, I love your last statement! That is a great question and I would love to know the answer!! Your are extremely astute!
Good question, Sharon. It is possible those occurred after that interview, but I don’t know. I do think his Catholic upbringing failed him.
This interview was in 2011, way before the antisemitism at Columbia recently. I wonder, is Eisenbach a Jewish name? I looked it up and sure enough, it is!
Etymology of Eisenbach
WHAT DOES THE NAME EISENBACH MEAN?
The prominent surname Eisenbach is a proud symbol of Jewish heritage. Before the late Middle Ages, people were known only by a single name. However, as the population increased and travelers set out on their journeys, it became necessary for people to adopt a second name to identify themselves. Jewish hereditary surnames were adopted from a variety of different sources. There are three possible derivations of the surname Eisenbach. Houseofnames.com
Good point Sharon! The antisemitism at Columbia. Does he care?
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?We are warned to refuse foolish and ignorant speculations. Eisenbach’s question was a meaningful question.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit ?
We are to be kind to all and teach, patient when wronged, with a gentleness to those in opposition.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
So that God can grant them repentance, leading to the knowledge of truth.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what helped most with those who are suffering. What is it~ and why so you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
Silence, love and speaking when spoken to. I think he started here, because it softened and redirected the questions away from being argumentative.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheist should be slow to discard God. What are they?
1.) It is no easier to go through suffering by disbelieving in God.
2.) Only if there is a higher law that says it is unjust. God came down to earth and suffered. He showed that He loved humanity
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
The way Keller tells the cat story is done with some humor to lighten the seriousness of the subject.
B. What is his point with the cat story?
To show that human suffering is different and more than animal suffering….(some of this overlaps I’m my answers. )
C. Why does Keller say that while we many not know the reason for suffering, we know what it
I don’t know the reason He has not stopped evil. But the reason that He does not stop evil is not because He does not love us.
I wondered about his reflection that animals have less suffering because it is primarily physical. I hope so!
Me too!
Wednesday: Careful Listening
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him? Eisenbach went to a Catholic school for eight years (calls it professional religious education), and then he went to a Jesuit preparatory school for four years. At the end of this twelve years of “religious education,” he was an atheist. His main question was how could the Holocaust happen (6 million exterminated, 80 million died) and there be a God?
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!) If I was the one listening to Eisenbach, I would have noticed that he went to a “Jesuit” high school. The Roman Catholic church, and Jesuits in particular, were very involved in education and government in Europe. I’m sure that the history would have been taught in those parochial schools, and would have given rise to the question of how the church allowed this to happen.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this? The first thing Keller says is that he agrees with Eisenbach, ..”the Holocaust was awful.” Then Keller speaks of examples of human suffering now, not like the Holocaust in scale, but similar in suffering and misery. He restates the question as to why God would allow it to happen, basically saying that anyone might feel the same way.
Liked how you showed Keller’s compassion and listening.
Wednesday: Careful Listening
5. Watch just the first two minutes.
A. What does David Eisenbach tell Keller about his background and the stickler question for him? He comes out an atheist after 12 years of religious education because of the holocaust-he wants to know how God can allow such suffering.
B. Keller wants to clarify his question. From listening to him carefully, why do you think Keller thinks the 1st question of “how the European church could have allowed this to happen” might be in his mind?” (I’m checking to see how astute you are!) Keller seems to be saying, God allows free will so look what people have done or allowed. A minority formed a resistance against Hitler, but the majority went along with his terrible plan when they could have refused. The problem was very few were willing to suffer the cost, and it was life or death. Without faith, this wasn’t something anyone could sacrifice on their own-one would need faith in God to stand up to Hitler. Even those with faith really struggled with what was the right thing to do in many instances.
C. Eisenbach says no; it is the second question. I know Keller would have loved to have answered the first, for Eisenbach is obviously “religious” rather than “gospel-oriented,” but Keller respects him and goes to the second. How does he demonstrate compassion and understanding of why Eisenbach would wonder about this? He mentions hard questions of suffering with those he pastors-like a two year old run over by a car. He talks about listening to those who are suffering and only speaking when spoken to.
Keller tells us to always listen so carefully that we can repeat back what was said or asked to be sure we understand. He does this here.
I love your thoughtful answer to B., Chris. I wonder if people lacked knowledge of who Hilter really was. The news was so different than it is now. It is puzzling. I do think they had a lot of fear.
Thursday: Kind to Everyone, Gently Instructed
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category? Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies that produce quarrels. He is troubled that he has been through 12 years of religious education and cannot reconcile evil, suffering in this world with a good God.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit? Not quarrelsome, kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26? The person may come to their senses and be released from the devil’s foothold.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question? He says silence and love, speaking when spoken to helps most.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they? 1. It doesn’t make it easier to not believe in God. 2. There is a higher law than natural order.
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here? Keller speaks about the $1,000 they spent on relieving their cat’s suffering a broken leg. We laugh because its a cat and he is spending so much money but it provides a comparison to the degree of pain and suffering people experience.
B. What is his point with the cat story? The cat doesn’t suffer in the way people do, and Jesus coming to suffer on earth is even more. We cannot ignore the fact that Christ came to suffer the ultimate punishment for our salvation. And once again, the question should not be why must we suffer, but why would he suffer for me?
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.) it can’t be indifference on God’s part to our suffering or he would not have come to earth and suffered himself to provide our salvation-this requires belief in the gospel. We can’t assume there is no reason for suffering, just because we cannot see a reason.
I too liked his saying not believing in God doesn’t make suffering easier.
Friday: But why didn’t God stop the holocaust?
9. Watch to the end
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? I love his honesty -it’s disarming. What other answer could he give?
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?” You can’t assume because there is no reason you can think of that God would have stopped the Holocaust, it doesn’t mean there isn’t one-this is cold comfort without the gospel. And the gospel says, whatever that reason would be, it can’t be a lack of love.
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that does mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
Oops.
C. I use this on myself daily. I keep Nahum 1:7 on the wall beside my bed and read it nightly when feeling overwhelmed with suffering. “The Lord is good, a refuge in the day of trouble; he cares for those who trust in him.
His response is genius. One cannot argue with his response.
10. I need to answer this later….
I thought that was response was genius too and have used it.
Thursday: Kind to Everyone, Gently Instructed
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category? We are warned to avoid foolish and ignorant questions that arouse controversy and strife. Eisenbach relates his background of religious education, of having considered thoughtfully, and that he had a sticking point that he couldn’t get past.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit? Gentleness, patience, meekness, willingness to teach
C. Why, according to verses 25-26? So that God might convict the person, grant them repentance, open their hearts/minds to truth, and release them from captivity/bondage of sin/Satan.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question? The letters MLK wrote from Birmingham jail: How do you know a human deed or law is unjust? Only if there is a higher law that says it’s unjust.
I think this was brilliant of Keller, because the recognition of God has to be the beginning of any truthful answer. Keller is questioning why anyone would consider something unjust, and that there has to be a higher law that we instinctively recognize.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they? Without God, there is no reason for moral outrage other than, “I don’t like it.” The second reason Keller brings up is the Christian view that God came down to earth (Jesus) and suffered and dies on the cross (which he then elaborates).
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here? There is relief brought about through humor. Although it’s interesting the Eisenbach’s comment, when Keller says they fixed the cat’s leg, is that Keller was kind of morally obligated to do so. That goes right back to what Keller said about a higher law, even when dealing with animals.
B. What is his point with the cat story? The Kellers loved their cat, and they willingly spent $1000 to have its leg fixed. Jesus came to earth, suffered and died because of God’s love for us. The point is that love is evidenced by action and is personal.
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.) The reason for suffering can not be indifference, hardness of heart, or lack of love on God’s part.
Cheryl, I really liked your answer to 8B! It brought clarity for me in trying to understand what seemed to go right over my head…thank you😊🙏
I agree — I missed the main point of his cat story. I just kept wondering if it is true that animals suffer less because their pain is primarily physical, but now I see his main point and it is so good.
Cheryl, I agree with Sharon, all your answers clarified Keller’s points so well. Thank you!
9. Watch to the end
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain. Keller says he does not know why God did not stop the suffering, but it can’t be indifference or hardness of heart, or that He doesn’t love us. I like that Keller is honest and he is winsome in his response. He never puts down someone for asking a question. I liked that he said that the gospel keeps off the indifference. Without it, we would have only a visceral response, a cold comfort.
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
Because we cannot see something, it does not mean it is not there. Just because we don’t know an answer does not mean there isn’t one.
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God not doing this does that mean that God does not have one? What do you think of the response? I like that response because it is honest and true. We are not in a position to understand all of God’s ways, but we know that they are ultimately for good.
10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage :
We are born again to a living hope; an inheritance which is imperishable and undefined reserved for us in heaven; salvation ready to be revealed in time; distressed by various trials, so proof of our faith will be more precious than gold, tested by fire; will easily in praise, glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus; you do not see Him now, but believe in Him….obtaining as the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Thursday: Kind to Everyone, Gently Instructed
6. Read 2 Timothy 2:23-26
A. Of what are we warned in verse 23? How can you tell Eisenbach’s question does not fall into this category?
We are warned against foolish and stupid arguments because they produce quarrels. David sincerely wants Tim’s input.
B. What qualities does verse 24 say we should exhibit?
We must be kind and able to teach.
C. Why, according to verses 25-26?
To lead others to the truth and not be trapped by the devil.
7. Watch from minutes 2-4.
A. I was intrigued at how Keller began by telling what has helped most with those who are suffering. What is it – -and why do you think he started here, though it was not an answer to the question?
Silence, love, and speaking when spoken to. Maybe Tim is saying that we as humans do not need to have the answer to everything. Silence, sitting shiva with the suffering person, is better than words. We love them through our presence and only reply when we are spoken to.
B. Now Keller gives 2 reasons why atheists should be slow to discard God. What are they?
It is not any easier to handle suffering by disbelieving in God. Our response is only visceral and can only be because we do not like suffering. no consideration of a higher moral law.
8. Watch from minutes 4-6.
A. He tells a cat story. How does the Lord bring some relief to the tension here?
Keller made it personal and brought humor. He said they paid 1K to have the cat fixed after they broke it. They had a moral obligation (David E. said this) to the cat.
B. What is his point with the cat story?
I am not sure if I got this. But the Kellers had a moral obligation to the cat to get it fixed. They spent 1K on the cat! We humans think along this line for animals. Can a God who sent Jesus to die and suffer for us think any less of human suffering?
C. Why does Keller say that while we may not know the reason for suffering, we know what it is not? (I think is golden and we should memorize it. This is what the Lord showed my daughter when she did her painting of Aslan. He’s not safe, but He’s good.)
It is not that He does not care or is not loving towards us; it cannot be remoteness or why He would get involved by sending Jesus, not indifference or hardness of heart.
Isah 55 comes to mind, but would this be too “preachy” when shared? For my thoughts are higher than your thoughts, my ways are higher than your ways.
Listen, be kind and gentle. So hard, but for the grace of God!
You got the cat point that mystified many of us!
You got it, Bing! Thank you!!That makes perfect sense! You made my day!
Thank you, Dee and Patti, for the feedback! That question made me think hard. I really appreciate short studies like this that help me seek the mind of Christ. Your questions, Dee, are thought-provoking. And Keller is superb.
Friday: But why didn’t God stop the holocaust?
9. Watch to the end
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain.
“I don’t know.” No, it has not surprised me, and this does show Tim Keller’s humility. “If you can’t think of a reason, that does not mean there can’t be one.” I learned that it is okay to say, “I don’t know”.
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
“If you can’t think of a reason, that does not mean there can’t be one.”
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that doesn’t mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
I think this is golden! I would like to see his illustration in the future! I think of the elderly in nursing homes who are bedridden for so long. My heart always aches for them.
10. We have listened to sermons on this before, where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
To prove the genuineness of our faith, for the praise, glory, and honor of Jesus. This is an opportunity to serve others.
9. Watch to the end
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain.
He did not know why God didn’t intervene with the Holocaust. Yes, I was surprised. Keller knew way more than I do about the Bible. I would think he would have had an answer. Or, was he trying to be more relatable to the man?
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
You have to have faith.
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that does mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
I kind of think it’s a cop out. But, it is also the truth. I may need to use it! Our ways are not God’s. It’s also a comfort to know we don’t have all the answers, but He does. I always go back to Job. God’s faithful servant. He never knew why, but he was faithful to the end.
10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
Your faith helps to endure the suffering and trials. We must remember that this suffering and endurance means we will have praise, honor, and glory in heaven.
Our reward for trusting in Him is salvation of our soul.
Laura you so often make me smile:
I kind of think it’s a cop out. But, it is also the truth. I may need to use it!
In human terms it is a cop out, but in terms of our faith it shows an understanding of our place in regards to God-his ways are higher and we cannot understand. Thank you Lord for knowing more than I and help me to remember, you have a reason for all that I cannot see and your ways are best. The fact that God is all knowing gives comfort but we must be willing to surrender ourselves to his authority and be willing to go wherever he sends us. Thank you Abraham, Noah, Jacob, Isaac, and so many hero’s of the faith for showing us how to do this.
Friday: But why didn’t God stop the holocaust?
9. Watch to the end
A. What is Keller’s first response to this question? Does this surprise you or not? Explain.
He didn’t know what the reason was.
No. When people would ask why I believed in a God who would take my child, I always said I really didn’t know His reason, but that I believed in His Sovereignty and trusted He knew best.
B. What is Keller’s point with the “no see-um illustration?”
Just because we may not understand or have a reason doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
C. I have used this point on myself (even last week) when I don’t understand God’s ways. “Just because I can’t think of a good reason for God this, that does mean God doesn’t have one.” What do you think of this response?
I agree!
10. We have listened to sermons on this before where Keller has much more time. He does give reasons based on Scriptures such as 1 Peter 1:3-12. Find a few in this passage.
I don’t deserve salvation but because of His great mercy and Jesus rising from the dead I have been born again.
I will have to endure trials for a little while, but these trials will show my faith is genuine.
Though I don’t see Him, I trust Him.
Good answer to your friends. We think we are so smart until we consider the magnitude of God.
Saturday:
11. What have you learned about being a winsome witness from Keller and the Scriptures?
I would ask for clarification by repeating what the other person said to make sure I understand. I should listen well, know the Scriptures, and use humor when appropriate.
12. We are to be prepared to give an answer. Share two things you might say in response to why does a good God allow evil and suffering?
I don’t know.
But because I can’t think of a reason, that does not mean God does not have one.
We may not know why God allows suffering, but we do know what it is not. It is not out of indifference or hard-heartedness or a lack of love. He sent His only son to suffer and to die for each one of us.
I pray I will remember these things from Keller when I am presented with an opportunity.
You captured it, Bing! You are ready!!!
11. What have you learned about being a winsome witness from Keller and the Scriptures?
Try to understand the person’s viewpoint. Ask questions. Use humor.
12. We are to be prepared to give an answer. Share two things you might say in response to why does a good God allow evil and suffering?
I think He wants to draw us near to Him. We have choices; He allows us to choose Him or not. Experiencing suffering makes us want Him more. Even people who don’t practice their faith, when they are in the midst of suffering, cry out for God. He is hope to help them. Christ suffered at the hands of men. He took our sin which shows how much He loves us.
The Bible says we will have glory and honor if we stand firm in our faith. The world is a fallen place where evil exists. It is that way because of our human-ness. Look at a person like Corrie Ten-Boom. She suffered greatly at the hands of the Nazis and stood firm in her faith. God took care of her and used her family for good.