Last week and this we’re listening to an interview of Tim Keller on how to reach post-Christian America with the gospel. You may want to listen to the whole interview again, even if you were with us last week, for we will review some from his first half hour. Here is the link:
How deeply this interview has impacted me. I know I will be a better evangelist for this post-Christian culture. I realize I erred deeply a year ago when I spoke at a local gathering. I had befriended ten pickleball players and they had agreed to come together to hear me give my first of four weekly talks on “Friendship.” I began with my testimony, explaining that coming into a relationship with the Lord had greatly enhanced my friendships, for reasons I would explain.
I planned to share the gospel using the strategy that Keller, in this interview, said worked twenty years ago but does not work very well today by addressing their guilt. I told the women of my guilt of being intimate with Steve before we were married. I told them that though I justified it, saying we were soon to be married, I also knew deep in my heart it was wrong, even though I had yet to come into a relationship with Jesus. I was two months pregnant on my wedding day and I broke my dad’s heart — he could hardly look at me until after our son was born. I was burdened and sad during the first 18 months of our marriage, not knowing how to get out from under the guilt.
But after my sister showed me that Jesus was God and wanted my whole life, I wanted to find out if that could be true, and read the New Testament and Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis. A month later, believing it was true, I knelt to give my life to Him and ask for His forgiveness. He took that burden of guilt and set me free. He could do the same for them.
I looked at the table filled with my young pickleball friends and could tell they were angry and offended. Probably most of them had sex outside of marriage, even had lived with men, and had justified it and didn’t want to be told it was wrong. Only one of the ten, a Catholic, who understood something about guilt, was back the next week. And, at pickleball, I could tell my friends were uncomfortable with me. I have not seen much fruit this year.
I know because you are an empathetic group you will try to reassure me.I do know God can still redeem our failures, and indeed might have reached some of the older women present, but I also want to change my tactics in reaching this generation, as Keller explains so well. In my generation we wanted to be free of guilt. This generation wants to be free to go their own way — and Keller is as wise as a serpent in telling them that they are not free, but a slave to their god of being the best, or the prettiest, or the whatever… Only God is a kind Master.
Sunday: God Hunt!
1. Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Monday: Review (Identity)
This is from about 10 minutes to a little over 15.
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
6. Quoting Keller: “Christianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.” He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
Tuesday: Review (Politics)
This follows the last section and ends at about 27.31 when he talks about cities. I found it fascinating to hear him speak of four biblical values that are not together in any political party, but only in biblical Christianity. He also said a healthy church should emphasize all four.
7. What are the four biblical values?
8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon?
Keller showed the great political divide in evangelical churches. In conservative areas, there are far more “red evangelicals” who care about being pro-life and sexual purity, but not much about overcoming racism or social justice or caring for immigrants.
Photo by Isaac Quesada
Photo by Jeremy Wong
But in liberal areas such as the coasts, there are far more “blue evangelicals” who care about racial equality/justice and caring for widows, orphans, immigrants, and the poor. But they may not care so much, or even believe anymore, about the above two values of the unborn and the sanctity of marriage.
Photo from PexelsPhoto from Danilyuk on Pexels
Last night I watched another interview of Keller by Nieuwhof. Keller talked about how the mainline churches in America have lost so many members, unlike their counterparts in other continents who have stayed truer to Scripture. But he also said that now evangelicals, particularly white evangelicals, are losing members because they hold firmly only to two of the above values and come across as moralistic and judgmental.
9. What else do you remember from the first half of Keller’s interview?
Wednesday: Cities
This section is from about 27 minutes through 34. Read also Jonah 1:1-2.
10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in? Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful?
I admit this was convicting to me who lives in Ephraim with a population of about 300 — though swells to thousands in the summer. Again, perhaps if I had heard this 20 years ago, I would have made a different choice on where to live after Steve died. Yet I know God can use me here, though probably not as much as He would in the city.
11. If you do live in the city, what opportunities do you have to serve Him that I might not? How are you taking advantage of this?
Thursday: Healthy Churches and The Future
Listen from 34 to 47.
12. Why did Keller say, “My church does not have to grow (numerically)? What is the danger in putting the emphasis there?
13. Keller said he wasn’t sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.?
14. Why is it good if this hostility doesn’t happen — and why is it still good if it does?
Friday: Make People Wish Christianity Is True
Listen to the end.
15. What was Pascal’s advice?
16. How could you show others that Christianity has been so attractive for you? Be specific.
17. What question from Keller “turns people into a pretzel.” (I asked this question of my stylist this week and had a break-through!)
18. What did Keller have to say about “emotional apologetics.” What example did he give from C. S. Lewis? (Lewis listed 3 ways people cope with meaningless lives.) List them.
19. Now, how might you incorporate this into your testimony?
Sunday: God Hunt!
1. Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
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âI read an article sharing the particulars by a physicist who explained that the rocket attacks directed at Israel last week on Saturday night were an absolute miracle of Godâs intervention and protection.Â
Here are those comments:Â
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Mordecai Avitbul, is a doctor of physics and has worked for several years in the defense industry in Israel, in projects that are still the cutting edge of the State of Israel.  He said, âWhen I look at what happened on Saturday night on a scientific level, it simply cannot happen.âÂ
He explained that to have such a high percentage of weapons destroyed would take every element of the process â human, electronic, mechanical â working just perfectly. He went on to say, âThe likelihood that everything works out just as it should does not exist in complex systems like the defense systems that were operatingâŠ.Â
They have never, I mean never, even beyond the State of Israel, been tried in real time. I took a pencil and dove into the calculations to check the likelihood that such a result would materialize. The large number of events that had to be handled at precisely the right time doubles the chance of making a mistake. Â
With all the high technologies, the expectation was for a breach in the defense of the skies of the State of Israel. What happened though is that everyone, I mean everyone – the pilots, the system operators and the technology operators – acted as one man at one moment in total unity.
Even if we got 90% protection, it would be a miracleâŠ. If this is not an act of God, then I no longer know what a miracle is.
The rescue that took place for the people of Israel on Shabbat night is simply impossible naturally. I believe that this miracle saved the lives of many people from Israel.â
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âI believe this to be a huge God Hunt and an answer to many prayers for Israel.Â
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2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
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âWow Dee! I remember you sharing here about those talks you were going to give but hearing your story now and the fallout is so eye opening.  What a hard experience but for God. How gracious of Him to bring this teaching by Keller to your attention and give you context and now a better understanding of your audience. That stands out to me. I am convinced God is still very much with you in this Pickleball experience and the lives of others. We havenât seen the end of this mistake on your part. We are always learning arenât we.Â
I have always struggled in sharing the Gospel and not because I am afraid to. Over the years I have been âtrainedâ in lots of âmethodsâ but they always felt so rote to me. I just thought I didnât have the âgift of evangelismâ.  And besides my own story is not very exciting. I am definitely coming to better understand when it comes to the gospel that it really isnât what I say nearly as much as how I live my life. And I donât mean by just being a good deeds person but by being a real person with a caring heart.Â
Me-ism is so deeply ingrained in our culture now that helping people see their way out of it still has to be a supernatural work of God. No easy answers âbutâ for God. And KellerđÂ
God can use him to help us figure this out. I am encouraged.Â
Wow! Bev!! Thank you for sharing this information on the miracle for Israel!! I would love to read the article….do you share the source? Praising God for His faithfulness in caring for Israel, though they have not been so faithful to Him.Â
Amen, to your response to Dee! I am trusting God to use what Dee considers a “mistake” for the good of some souls. We live in a difficult time.Â
Bev, I love your Godhunt! I was amazed, too when I heard about the Iran rocket attacks on Israel. I had a quick thought of awe at how God protected Israel but the physicist’s explanation gave me goosebumps! Who else can make things work perfectly for God’s people? I say, wow, again, Lord!
Thanks for sharing!
Bev, loved your God hunt.  I read the quote to my husband and his response was, âwow, that just gives you goosebumps!â  We serve an amazing GodâŠthanks for sharing âŁïž
Bev,
This is such an interesting and incredible account from Mordecai Avitbul.  Would you copy and paste the source of this article for us?
Thank you!
Sunday: God Hunt!
1.      Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
My classroom seems to be a place where I see a lot of God sightings. So here is another one: one of my students who is a chatterbox and who seemed oblivious to how she comes across when she opens her mouth, asked me a question that initially offended me. I was tempted to give her a smart aleck-y or sarcastic response but the Spirit helped me hold my tongue. And He helped me to say words that were true and gracious. As I reflected on that conversation later, I realized my idol of approval was dethroned! A small victory for me with the Spiritâs help. Philippians 4:13 in the context of strength to prevail in doing good came to mind. âI can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.â
2.     What stands out to you from the above and why?
Dee, I did not know about your story with your pickleball friends. Thank you for sharing this with us and humbly acknowledging what you could have done differently. That is very impactful to me personally as Richard and I deal with a sensitive issue in our church regarding marriage. Tim Keller has opened my eyes to different ways of reaching the generation younger/older than me. I pray to God to forgive me for my futile and human attempts to reach others for Christ and that I would be sensitive to the Spirit as He leads. and yes, He can surely turn our failures into something beautiful as He only can.
Monday: Review (Identity) 3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
People back then had a belief in God, belief in an afterlife, belief in the moral law and belief in sin, had some respect for the Bible and an understanding of these things. Â So back then it was easier to reach that generation through guilt because the meaning of life was to be good whether you were a Christian or not. Â They were told youâll never overcome your guilt by just being good but that youâll have to get forgiveness from Jesus.Â
You addressed their guilt.
4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
They wanted to be free to discover their true self and express that without guilt. 5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
It changed from being psychological to sociological. Â Itâs all about justice, creating your own self and including marginalized people/identites.
Christianity gives you the only identity that is received and not achieved.  Trying to create yourself is a lot of pressure, but because of what Christ did for me, dying on the cross and taking the penalty for me and when I believe in Him I can  know Iâll be loved unconditionally forever.  Weâre righteous in Christ and what that means is, the minute I become a Christian God loves me as perfectly now as he will 5 billion years from now when Iâm perfect. Â
6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
James 1:9-11 basically says, the rich Christian should think about his low position and the poor Christian should think about his high position. Â Christian identity says that youâre a sinner and youâd go to hell if it wasnât for Jesus Christ. Â It makes you go low, youâre a sinner, you deserve nothing and say I canât save myself and yet in Christ I am loved and accepted. Â If youâre a poor person and all your life youâve been told youâre nothing, when you become a Christian you should dwell on your high position, on who you are in Jesus Christ. Â But if youâve been rich and you become a Christian you need to remember your low position, youâre a sinner saved by sheer grace. Â The Christian identify doesnât exclude people but is an enormous equalizer and takes all the pressure off.
I knew God was with me last week as I tried to keep myself on top of my very hectic schedule and getting ready for Spring Break week. He was right beside me, helping me get through. Thank You, Jesus! I managed to make it and now have a week to ârest.â
I also continue to see and hear things in my classroom from students who are Christians! A cross sticker on a water bottle, conversations about church activities, etc. I am hopeful by these activities near me at school! 2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I guess I donât understand why your pickle all friends would be mad at you about a story you were telling about yourself đ€·đ»ââïž. It was what happened to you. Iâm trying to put myself in your shoes by using what happened to meâŠ.my story about how I came to actually know Jesus; would that have worked? I was a church goer my whole life, but it wasnât until my 2 middles begin to give us trouble as teens that I gave myself completely to Him. I realized I was not in control and needed someone else to be in control. I gave up and gave it to Him and then I was free! It was a beautiful thing! I later realized I had made idols of my children, thanks to you, Dee.
Iâm also struggling with the Keller interview, myself. I think Iâm still a baby, and this is way over my head! I understand what he means about divisive politics. I canât understand Christians being okay with abortion, for example. I donât understand how/why we should âchangeâ our message to fit the ânew age.â Isnât the message the same? Love God and love people. I think todayâs world would appreciate that sentiment, right? But, are we trying to get them to come to church? Is that the goal? I suppose we could lure them with learning about how to love people using the Gospel. Iâm just not sure Iâm understanding what I need to, and gleaning what I should from the interview. Iâm a fairly literal person so when I read the Bible I try to uphold what it says. This generation would react to loving others, Iâm fairly certain of that. Wouldnât many of the healings and parables be of interest to them? Plus, Iâm not a pastor eitherâŠjust little ole me đ
I understand your frustration. I know Keller is not saying to change the gospel message. He is saying to get into the mindset.
When I said that what I did was wrong, they had so justified their own behavior, they wanted to run from me instead of receiving it. It is true, we must eventually get to morality, but if you can’t even get them to listen to the evidences for the truth of Christianty, you will fail.Â
Did it make sense to you that if you show them Christianity is desirable, then they might listen to the evidences for the resurrection?
I see. They wanted to justify their behavior, not feel bad about what they had done.Â
I also can see how you need to make  Christianity desirable. I appreciate you clearing it up! I did not get that from the interview. So many of us, myself included, seem to be unhappy, when we should be happy that we are saved forever!  We should definitely be happy about that.Â
Sunday: God Hunt! 1. Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
Our son and his family have been coming to church quite regularlyâŠI see a softness in our son towards the things of Christ which is an answer to prayer. Â
I would appreciate prayer in my attitude towards our church. Â Iâm hanging in there for my son as I donât want to be a stumbling block. 2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I so appreciate your honesty and transparency Dee. Â I donât look at your pickle ball experience as a failure but rather a learning process and that seeds were planted. Â
Sharon, this is wonderful to hear about your son. I will pray that he is drawn to Jesus in a very personal and lasting way. I pray for you to hang in there, dear sister in Christ.Â
Sharon, thanking God for answers to prayers for your son. I am praying for you regarding your church. I, too, have my “moments” with our church. But may God find us faithful to seek Him always and to give Him our disappointments and unmet expectations.
Sharon, My heart aches with you but also can identify with you about your son, and in not wanting to cause him to stumble via the church issues. That is a huge encouragement and also a correction for me. You are wise, sister!
That is a HUGE encouragement that your son and his family are going to church. WOW.. God is on the move.Â
Monday: Review (Identity)
This is from about 10 minutes to a little over 15.
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
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âThey could assume a Christsodom culture was in place and there was a social pressure to attend church at least occasionally. So when people came to church they just preached to the Chrisodom mindset and connected the dots of belief in a personal God, belief in an afterlife of heaven and hell,  belief in a moral law and sin. So they would preach to people who had a basic respect for church who felt the meaning of life was to be good and you preached to their guilt.Â
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4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
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âIt was a culture where the meaning of life was to be true to yourself. And people wanted to be free to discover themselves. Who they really were inside and be free to discuss that without feeling guilty.Â
It was all about the psychological.Â
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5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
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âNow today it is all about the sociological. About Justice. About creating yourself and including the marginalized.Â
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It has become all about identity. The pressure is on people when they try to create their own identity.Â
Keller said  âChristianity is the only identity that is received and not achieved.â
The message then to them is that God loves me unconditionally forever. I am righteous in Christ. And God loves me perfectly through all ups and downs forever. Postmodernism says identity is based on performance. A role that has to be played out.Â
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6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
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âChristian identity says that you are a sinner and without Christ you will go to hell. The lowest position is that I canât save myself. The low person who has been put down all his life for who he is when he accepts Christ is immediately raised up to a high standing because of Jesus and should dwell on his new identity in Christ.Â
But the rich person who has always been in a high position of acceptance and affirmation of who they are when he accepts Christ needs to remember their low position that they are a sinner saved by grace alone and are no better than anyone else.Â
Identify in Christ is the great equalizer. Keller commentedÂ
âI donât care where you guys are forming your identity there is no identity like the one in Jesus Christ.â
âThe gospel is that Jesus saves you and you donât. â
1. Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
I was feeling like my young friend, Tom, may have been overwhelmed at church last week. I kind of felt like maybe I had overstepped. I sent a note last night, just saying I hope he found some answers about wanting to volunteer and hoped that he was not overwhelmed. I received a very sweet note back. He said he was excited to meet with the youth pastor this Thursday. Praising God, as I thought I had messed everything up….but He had a plan. Tom signed the note “God bless you.” The Lord is working, even when we are clumsy, like me. 2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Dee, I have been so sad about the response from your Pickle ball friends. You are always so honest and open, and true to the Lord and to good morals. I agree with Sharon, that you have planted seeds. You were truthful, but it feels like people snubbed you because of your godly values. I am praying for the hearts of those who heard you. I love the interview with Keller. I have listened to it at least 7 times. Our culture has changed. Only God’s Word can transform us. People have a difficult time these days, dying to self. We are a self driven society and many don’t want to hear words to change themselves, but to keep the habits they love and fit God into that lifestyle. To quote my pastor: “we should not put ourselves on the platform of the “Unholy Trinity”: Me, Myself, I. (speaking of people who don’t want to change for Jesus.) Your holy words can land on ears that do not want to change their lifestyle, it is difficult for them to die to self and give one’s all to Jesus. ( I know that is a bit redundant)
Patti, I thought I was being too much having listened 4x to TK and being on my 5th! And you beat me by another 2x! Hahaha. Yes, Dee, we are getting to be quite the fans of TK.Â
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
You know (in your heart)Â you should be good, but you are not as good as you would like to be(guilt). Jesus can forgive you and you will be accepted. 4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
Be free to discover your true self. Psychological (Freudian). Getting free from people making you feel guilty. But a great career can’t forgive your sin, it can only enslave you. 5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?Â
The new emphasis is Sociological. It is centered on Social justice, including marginalized people and identities, creating your own identity. Keller says: Christianity give you the only identity that is received, not achieved. It is a gift. Creating your self has a “falseness” about it; Identity is a role you play, it has no redemption. You exclude bigots etc, as a way of bolstering self and your insecure identity (comparing yourself to others, angry when others don’t support you.) 6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
Christianity is the great equalizer. We all deserve nothing, for we all have sinned. In Christ, I am loved more than I could hope. Keller quote: “Jesus says ‘The Father loves you, even as He loves Me.” Dwell on who you are in Jesus. Christian identity does not exclude anyone. It is the greatest gift given.
Dee, this study is so good!
Monday: Review (Identity)
This is from about 10 minutes to a little over 15.
1.      How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
That generation believed the meaning of life is being good so if they are not good, they need Jesus to forgive them of their sins and to overcome their guilt.
2.     How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
They wanted freedom. Freedom to do what they want, to pursue who they think they want to be. Freedom to tap into their inner child and express it without having to deal with their guilt.
3.      How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
They now want identity, to make a name for themselves. To go out and find themselves in either their work, success, or family. In the end, it will not satisfy. As the song goes, âNever enoughâ. We reach them by making them see that performance can never earn them their identity. There is always something that needs filling. The only identity that is given and not earned can be found in Christ alone.
4.     Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
The poor man is at his lowest and when he comes to believe in Christ, he is elevated to being co-heirs with Christ. He was raised to this position without working for it. The rich man, though he thinks he has everything does not have anything until he gives his life to Christ. He also did not do anything to earn Christ’s love for him. Rich or poor, we are all at the same level at the foot of the cross.
This is so true, Bing! As the song goes, âNever enoughâ. We reach them by making them see that performance can never earn them their identity. There is always something that needs filling. The only identity that is given and not earned can be found in Christ alone.
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
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Via guilt.
 4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
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They want to be true to themselves. They wanted to be free to discover themselves. You should be able to express that without guilt.Â
He tried to explain to them that they were actually slaves to their careers and needed to be freed by Jesus.
 5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
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Itâs all about justice, creating myself, and marginalized people. Identity is a role I play.
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Christianity gives us the only identity received, not achieved. Jesus lost His glory and paid the penalty for us. Because of that, I know God loves me perfectly, forever. Itâs not up and down no matter how well I perform.Â
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Itâs all about using the cultural trends and the âplot lineâ of the culture to project a happy ending with the Gospel.
 6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
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Christian identity doesnât exclude people. Those with their own identity excludes others (âIâm not as bad asâŠ.â). There is no identity that is excluded in Jesus. You are [all] a sinner who needs saving. It doesnât matter if you are rich or poor.Â
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Laura, Love your answer to 6.) Christian identity doesnât exclude people. Those with their own identity excludes others (âIâm not as bad asâŠ.â). There is no identity that is excluded in Jesus. You are [all] a sinner who needs saving. It doesnât matter if you are rich or poor.Â
2. What stands out to you from the above and why? Keller’s wisdom on where to go with unbelievers in our culture now who want to be free by going their own way. It is indeed slavery, not freedom.
Also, Dee’s story stood out, but I want to encourage you, Dee. :-)You are teachable and humble and that is what I see in your story, even though I agree that our culture has become guilt-numbed which has resulted in a mindset of doing things my way will bring freedom. The fact that you are willing to listen and then correct course on what our culture really needs is what impacted me the most. You are VERY mature and so I really want to be like you as I grow more. More humble, more like Christ.
I took an evangelism class and their heart was in the right place, but the methods were old and dated. I knew if someone were to approach me that way I would’ve said I wanted nothing to do with Christianity. Especially if it was focused on heaven vs. hell instead of relationship. This might be pride, and I hope not (yikes), but I cringe when I hear someone say, “If you were to die today, do you know if you’d go to heaven?” or read a tract that says, “How to get to heaven.” I think I would’ve answered. “I don’t know, prove to me heaven exists and I’ll give you my answer.” That’s not reaching the heart need!
Rebecca,Â
You are an encourager too. I see it on this blog. I agree that some of those methods you mention in your last paragraph, might make me run the other way. You seem like a very relational and open Christian woman, who draws others to Jesus.Â
10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in? Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful?
Many of the churches in this part of the country do not focus on the gospel. It can be very hard to find a Christ centered church. Yet, one on one, there are many who have an emptiness that can only be filled by a relationship with Jesus. I have found that just being friends with someone can give me opportunities to talk about what Jesus has done in my life. There are many lonely people of all ages. I admit this was convicting to me who lives in Ephraim with a population of about 300 â though swells to thousands in the summer. Again, perhaps if I had heard this 20 years ago, I would have made a different choice on where to live after Steve died. Yet I know God can use me here, though probably not as much as He would in the city. 11. If you do live in the city, what opportunities do you have to serve Him that I might not? How are you taking advantage of this?
I think that you are amazing at connecting with others, Dee. I would totally flunk pickle ball. đ I do best with one on one relationships. I am not good at socializing in big groups of people that I don’t know. I probably need to get better at that. I have met many neighbors, just by walking my dogs. I like to keep in close touch with friends from years back and new friends as well. I like to be there, when someone just needs a listening ear. Sometimes, all you need to do is be available. I also stay in touch with my grandchildren and am available whenever they need to talk.Â
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?) By addressing their guilt and how they could be free of it. 4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want? To be free to discover their true self. They wanted to be free to go their own way. 5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? Now people want justice, they want to create their own selves, and include marginalized people. How did Keller suggest reaching them? Your identity in Christ is something that you have received, you don’t have to work for it. It is given to you. You are just as loved now as you will be in 5 billion years. It also doesn’t exclude. If you think that you’re non-judgemental and inclusive, you are going to look down on bigots. Which in itself is not being inclusive. 6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain. The rich Christian should think about his low position and the poor Christian should think about his high position. If you are a poor person, in a low position in life when you become a Christian your identity is in Christ you should dwell on who you are in Him. How raised your position is. If you’re a rich person, all of your life you’ve had the best and have been told how great you are, when you become a Christian you should dwell on the fact that you are a sinner that deserves hell and are nothing without Christ.
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7. What are the four biblical values? Racial equality, justice for the marginalized, pro-life and sex only between a man and a woman when they are married. 8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon? Because it means he’s not being a coward in his preaching. 9. What else do you remember from the first half of Kellerâs interview? To think that most people think that the meaning of life is to be good is not true in America today. They think that the meaning of life is to be true to yourself.
Tuesday: Review (Politics) 7. What are the four biblical values?
Christians should be sold out to racial justice, races are equal, weâre all made in the image of God.
Be deeply concerned about the poor and marginalized.
Be pro-life.
They should believe that sex should only be between a man and a woman in marriage. 8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon?
When you see this you say to yourself, ok, Iâm not a total coward.
9. What else do you remember from the first half of Kellerâs interview?
What he says from 1 Corinthians 1. Â âYou have to find a way to take the plot line of the culture and give it a happy ending in Jesus. Â For example from Corinthians 1, the Jews want power and the Greeks want wisdom but the cross is weakness to the Jews and foolishness to the Greeks but to the Jews and Greeks that are being saved itâs the true wisdom and the true power of God. What is Paul doing? Â The culture of the Jews is pragmatic, they want to know how to get things done, give me power. Â The culture of the Greeks was, theyâre artists, they want contemplation, they want wisdom, they want beauty. Â What Paul is saying is, the gospel confronts the idolatryâs of both of these cultures differently, the cross confronts the idolatry of power and wisdom, but the cross is the true wisdom and the true power of God. Â In the cross you actually get, Oh culture, what you want. Â This is contradictory fulfillment, itâs subverting it and fulfilling it.â
This is so good, Sharon:Â What Paul is saying is, the gospel confronts the idolatryâs of both of these cultures differently, the cross confronts the idolatry of power and wisdom, but the cross is the true wisdom and the true power of God. Â In the cross you actually get, Oh culture, what you want. Â This is contradictory fulfillment, itâs subverting it and fulfilling it.â
12. Why did Keller say, âMy church does not have to grow (numerically)? What is the danger in putting the emphasis there? The church grows if the people are growing spiritually and showing their faith. It must grow in joy, worship, etc. growing numerically should be a by-product of that. So we shouldn’t put an emphasis on growth but rather on spiritual growth.Â
 13. Keller said he wasnât sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.? Evangelical colleges could lose their accreditation, and christian radio stations lose their licenses because they are considered bigoted and hateful. We shouldn’t live in fearfulness of it. We have to not be afraid but be ready for it. Not be shocked if it happens.
 14. Why is it good if this hostility doesnât happen â and why is it still good if it does? It’s a win win. If it doesn’t happen, that’s great. If it doesn’t happen it’s better for us spiritually. If it happens, it’s better for us institutionally.Â
I somehow did Wednesday on Tuesday. 6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain. I already answered this question, yet I wanted to share this quote on Tim Keller’s website this morning. Love this wording:
“The rich brother needs to let the gospel humble him while the poor brother needs to let the gospel affirm him.” 7. What are the four biblical values?
 1) Sold out for Racial justice
2) Deep concern for the poor and marginalized
3) Pro life
4) For Christians, sex should only be between a man and a woman in marriage 8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon?
Then he feels as if “I am not a total coward here.” đÂ
Last night I watched another interview of Keller by Nieuwhof. Keller talked about how the mainline churches in America have lost so many members, unlike their counterparts in other continents who have stayed truer to Scripture. But he also said that now evangelicals, particularly white evangelicals, are losing members because they hold firmly only to two of the above values and come across as moralistic and judgmental. 9. What else do you remember from the first half of Kellerâs interview?
Inherited religion is dying. Young people choose what they want to believe. The protective covering is gone. There are more devout Christians, as well as more estranged Christians.Â
His comment about white evangelicals was sobering. And I see it. There must be a better answer to immigration — I really feel we should be letting people in, but somehow finding a way to vet. Seems our government should be able to figure it out — other than just building a wall which seems heartless. There’s a political remark from me — going where angels fear to go.
Yes, it was sobering…. and I see it too. I agree there needs to be a reasonable plan, but both sides of our government seemed at odds with each other. I do know some who have come in, are not vetted. They are very good citizens, hard workers, love this country and want to get citizenship and many are committed Christians; at the same time, others are criminals and marketing drugs. We have both in this area. So much confusion….it is a difficult time we live in. Lord come quickly!
There are laws about how immigrants come into our country. I canât just waltz across the border of any other country on Earth! These Palestinian studentsâ visas should be revoked. We allow peaceful protests! They are not peaceful. They are spewing hate speech. Why arenât they arrested for that? It all started back in Portland, Oregon, when we allowed people to beat up and actually kill people without consequence! I couldnât believe it was happening in my own country. Isnât it ironic that Eisenhower  had to call out the National Guard to walk blacks to class in the 50âs and yet in 2024 Jewish students have to stay in their dorms? Since when do we not support everyone in our country? Not right. Not American. Patti is correct; there are some very bad people coming across the southern border right now. We need to get rid of the current administration before our America is totally destroyed. Remember how they want to âfundamentally change America?â We are not socialist or communist, thank the Lord!  We canât be naive about this. There are bad people in the world. They donât care about eternity or God. We canât change people like that. At least I am just little old me and canât do a whole lot to help the situation other than vote the politicians out of office who are creating this chaos!Â
10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in? Because they are busy and unmanageable. Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful? Because there is so much need. There are so many different people with different needs, that it is impossible to not find somewhere to be useful.
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7. What are the four biblical values?
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He speaks of racial justice, the poor, sex is between a man and a woman in marriage, and be pro-life.
 8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon?
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It meant he wasnât a coward! The Bible sees all four of these ideas as one cloth.Â
 10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in? Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful?
They are expensive, and culturally diverse. No mission available to address these problems. It can be uncomfortable. There is so much need, however, so much to do!
 11. If you do live in the city, what opportunities do you have to serve Him that I might not? How are you taking advantage of this?
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I live in a small (30,000) town, not really a city. I will admit, this is a challenge for me. I donât think of serving in a city, although I have travelled to the bigger city of Manchester, NH to pray outside the abortion clinic. I have, years ago, served at a church food bank. I give clothing to certain groups. I give my time to help judge Christian speech and debate competitions for home school groups. My problem is that I am so busy working and caring for my family, I donât think (ugh) of outreach. I assume that our church sponsors many missionaries and that is their job to do for us. I suppose I should think about this more.
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Wednesday: Cities 10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in?
They are expensive, Â culturally diverse, complicated & ministry needs are different.
Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful?
Because there are so many people and so many needs, but you must have a ministry mindset.
11. If you do live in the city, what opportunities do you have to serve Him that I might not?
I donât live in a big city. Â As of 2022 the population of our city is approximately 10,000 people. How are you taking advantage of this?
This whole conversation was interesting to me as I think God will use us wherever we are. Â My parents and other missionaries lived near a small African village and at least 2 days from a city. Â Our mission field had a seminary school to train the Africans to become pastors and so church planting took place. Â There was a church where many Africans attended from the village near us and other villages not so near. Â I think we need to be where God has called us to be and be obedient to that calling for whatever capacity it is.
This is so true, Sharon: I think we need to be where God has called us to be and be obedient to that calling for whatever capacity it is. AMEN! This is so true. I have a totally different sense of calling than I had when I was young. There are so many needs everywhere right now that I feel there will always be places to serve.Â
“I think we need to be where God has called us to be and be obedient to that calling for whatever capacity it is.” This is good, Sharon! An encouragement to let God use us wherever He places us.
12. Why did Keller say, âMy church does not have to grow (numerically)? What is the danger in putting the emphasis there?
Data driven churches are not necessarily growing hearts to Christ. Keller makes decisions based on moral values. If people are growing spiritually and sharing their faith the church will grow. Growth is a by product; the church body must grow in joy and spirit. It is not about getting more people in the door, but about growing more people towards a knowledge and love of the Lord. 13. Keller said he wasnât sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.?
Churches could lose non-profit status; colleges could lose accreditation; Christian stations could lose FCC licenses. Â 14. Why is it good if this hostility doesnât happen â and why is it still good if it does?
If this hostility doesn’t happen, it is better for the institution; If it does happen, it is better for us spiritually.
From Patti:
Data driven churches are not necessarily growing hearts to Christ. Keller makes decisions based on moral values. If people are growing spiritually and sharing their faith the church will grow. Growth is a by product; the church body must grow in joy and spirit. It is not about getting more people in the door, but about growing more people towards a knowledge and love of the Lord.
Dee and Patti, I liked Tim’s answer to this question # 12. “It is not about getting more people in the door, but about growing more people towards a knowledge and love of the Lord.”
If this hostility doesnât happen, it is better for the institution; If it does happen, it is better for us spiritually. This one reminds me of Romans 8:28. whatever happens, god is working it out for good.
Saturday:
21. What is your take-a-way? Why?
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âThis week I got totally derailed from answering questions and posting here so I am going to just finish the week with the Saturday take away. We left Tuesday morning and traveled with our daughter and husband to attend a grandsonâs college choir concert 5 hrs away and then made a side trip on the way back home to pick up another grandson from the airport in Omaha. So I had 3 days on the road with family. I daily do my personal quiet time but just couldnât find the extra time to get plugged into answering questions here like when Iâm home in my little office space. Â I read the comments this morning (that always blesses me đ) and I have listened to the Keller interview twice in the past couple of weeks. Way behind some of you but I will listen again and try to enlarge on the brief notes I have taken.Â
There are a plethora of take aways from this study of Kellerâs interview so just have to choose one. đ
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âSomething Keller said that stood out to me is  âThe gospel is that Jesus saves you and you donât. âÂ
It was a bottom line answer in reference to the identity question of today. People thinking the meaning of life is to be true to yourself. He said thatÂ
âChristianity is the only identity that is received and not achievedâ and that Christ is the identity equalizer.Â
Because of what Jesus did.Â
There is no identity you can find like the one in Jesus Christ.Â
He used the James passage of how the poor Christian and the rich Christian should identify in what Jesus has done for them.Â
I think he actually applied his bottom line comment to whatever philosophy is the over riding influence on the culture. It will always be true.Â
âThe gospel is that Jesus saves you and you donât. âÂ
The challenge comes in how I can meet and engage the current culture in its need to hear and understand the true Gospel.Â
Thursday: Healthy Churches and The Future
12. Why did Keller say, âMy church does not have to grow (numerically)?
Itâs more important to have spiritual growth and numerical growth may be a byproduct of that.
 What is the danger in putting the emphasis there?
He talks about putting emphasis on what ought to be vs what is and getting caught up in data and what ought to be. Â He gets the âwhat isâ based on moral values that come from scripture.
Iâve been involved in churches that are so focused on numerical growth that spiritual growth becomes an afterthought and people are floundering in who they are in Christ.
13. Keller said he wasnât sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.?
They could get their accreditation taken away. Â We should be ready for a hostile culture but not fear it.
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14. Why is it good if this hostility doesnât happen â and why is it still good if it does?
Itâs better institutionally if it doesnât happen but better spiritually if it does.
Oh Dee! I just saw the devastation in Nebraska! Itâs awful. I wonder if Joyceâs family was affectedâŠpraying for all those states that had tornados yesterday. Do you still have family in Nebraska? â„ïžâ„ïžâ„ïžđđđ
Laura, I saw that, too! I don’t know of anyone personally who has been affected by the tornadic activities. Somebody related to one of my sister-in-law’s daughters-in-law had their home destroyed by the tornado in Elkhorn, NE. Yes, praying, indeed.
15. What was Pascalâs advice?
Bring people to the place where they wish Christianity was true, then show them it’s true. 16. How could you show others that Christianity has been so attractive for you? Be specific.Â
Knowing Jesus gave me a peace about why I am here and why every word I say and every act I do is important. It gave me peace, knowing that God is in charge of my life and He has a purpose for me on this earth. A good marriage, good job and travel are all wonderful, but those thing can be every changing and don’t fill your soul the way Jesus does. Jesus does not change. He is always there for us.  17. What question from Keller âturns people into a pretzel.â (I asked this question of my stylist this week and had a break-through!)
How do you determine whether something is right or wrong….how do you make a moral judgment?  18. What did Keller have to say about âemotional apologetics.â What example did he give from C. S. Lewis? (Lewis listed 3 ways people cope with meaningless lives.)
The book by Spufford: Unapologetics: Why, In spite of everything, Christianity still make great emotional sense.Â
C. S. Lewis: When you grow up, you discover that all the things you thought were going to make you happy, don’t do it. List them. 1) Job 2) Spouse 3) Travel 19. Now, how might you incorporate this into your testimony?
Looking back, I see how much better my life has been, since I gave it to Jesus. I think it is my testimony….I can look back and see Him in the good times and the bad times. He is faithful always.
12. Why did Keller say, âMy church does not have to grow (numerically)? What is the danger in putting the emphasis there?
You worry about the numbers and not the people and their needs.
BUT, isnât the whole point of the Great Commission to bring people to Christ via the Gospel??
13. Keller said he wasnât sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.?
Tax freedom loss, college accreditation loss regulations that donât align with the faith, persecution.
 14. Why is it good if this hostility doesnât happen â and why is it still good if it does?
Itâs good either way because the church can continue itâs mission and grow if left alone, and when the persecution happens we grow deeper in our faith.
Saturday:
21. What is your take-a-way? Why?
There were so many it was hard to pick one or two!
We have had a busy week with moving out of our old house, the last week of school for me (yay!), and the graduation ceremony last night. We were under a tornado warning and I was impressed with the turnout despite the weather. Quite many students and guests came in wet from the rain. Somebody would think we were crazy! It was small-town community support at its best. The venue was relatively full-there were more family and friends  than I expected.
My main takeaway was asking myself how I can share the gospel in ways that are relevant and attractive to the hearer. There is much love and freedom in the way Tim Keller approaches this topic. This has brought me clarity to some confusing thoughts I have had in terms of being an ambassador for Christ. This is one interview I will go back to again and again. I am looking for some more similar talks on YouTube.
15. What was Pascalâs advice?
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He said to bring people to a place where they wish Christianity was true and then show them itâs true.
 16. How could you show others that Christianity has been so attractive for you? Be specific.
 Oh the FREEDOM!! If people could understand how (as the song King of Kings says), âIn His freedom I am FREE!â They would want to be here with me!Â
When I was a baby Christian I needed control of everything and everyone. As I have grown in Christ I do not need to do that anymore. I know He is in charge! He is in control and I donât have to be anymore. It is total freedom.
 17. What question from Keller âturns people into a pretzel.â (I asked this question of my stylist this week and had a break-through!)
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I would love to hear this story! The question is âHow do you decide if something is right or wrong?â
 18. What did Keller have to say about âemotional apologetics.â What example did he give from C. S. Lewis? (Lewis listed 3 ways people cope with meaningless lives.) List them.
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People need to want it to be true for it to be true to them. Christianity makes emotional sense (from a book he read that he didnât recommend all of)
It helps us make moral decisions.
Mere Christianity on âhope.âCS Lewis said all the things that you thought were going to make you happy (good things) donât. There is emptiness. 1) you say, âI need a better wife, marriage, job, etc. 2) you say, âThere is no happiness.â You get cynical. It dehumanizes you. 3) Satisfaction of our desires exists, but it must be from another world, not here.
 19. I could incorporate this by helping others look forward to eternal life instead of the fleeting life here on Earth. The problem I see here though, is that people are connected to their families and familiar things that they canât see life without them. I would agree that it is difficult indeed. I suppose a testimony of freedom here on earth (from control) and realization that knowing Jesus well (itâs something I needed to understand before I understood freedom in Christ), by reading the NT, I now know that God left a little bit of Himself inside of each of us, so that the longing for Him, the desire, is there, and we just need to tap into it. By doing so, we leave behind the amenities of this life for the life ahead of us. Itâs the Francis Chan âRopeâ analogy.Â
72 comments
Sunday: God Hunt!
1. Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
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âI read an article sharing the particulars by a physicist who explained that the rocket attacks directed at Israel last week on Saturday night were an absolute miracle of Godâs intervention and protection.Â
Here are those comments:Â
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Mordecai Avitbul, is a doctor of physics and has worked for several years in the defense industry in Israel, in projects that are still the cutting edge of the State of Israel.  He said, âWhen I look at what happened on Saturday night on a scientific level, it simply cannot happen.âÂ
He explained that to have such a high percentage of weapons destroyed would take every element of the process â human, electronic, mechanical â working just perfectly. He went on to say, âThe likelihood that everything works out just as it should does not exist in complex systems like the defense systems that were operatingâŠ.Â
They have never, I mean never, even beyond the State of Israel, been tried in real time. I took a pencil and dove into the calculations to check the likelihood that such a result would materialize. The large number of events that had to be handled at precisely the right time doubles the chance of making a mistake. Â
With all the high technologies, the expectation was for a breach in the defense of the skies of the State of Israel. What happened though is that everyone, I mean everyone – the pilots, the system operators and the technology operators – acted as one man at one moment in total unity.
Even if we got 90% protection, it would be a miracleâŠ. If this is not an act of God, then I no longer know what a miracle is.
The rescue that took place for the people of Israel on Shabbat night is simply impossible naturally. I believe that this miracle saved the lives of many people from Israel.â
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âI believe this to be a huge God Hunt and an answer to many prayers for Israel.Â
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2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
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âWow Dee! I remember you sharing here about those talks you were going to give but hearing your story now and the fallout is so eye opening.  What a hard experience but for God. How gracious of Him to bring this teaching by Keller to your attention and give you context and now a better understanding of your audience. That stands out to me. I am convinced God is still very much with you in this Pickleball experience and the lives of others. We havenât seen the end of this mistake on your part. We are always learning arenât we.Â
I have always struggled in sharing the Gospel and not because I am afraid to. Over the years I have been âtrainedâ in lots of âmethodsâ but they always felt so rote to me. I just thought I didnât have the âgift of evangelismâ.  And besides my own story is not very exciting. I am definitely coming to better understand when it comes to the gospel that it really isnât what I say nearly as much as how I live my life. And I donât mean by just being a good deeds person but by being a real person with a caring heart.Â
Me-ism is so deeply ingrained in our culture now that helping people see their way out of it still has to be a supernatural work of God. No easy answers âbutâ for God. And KellerđÂ
God can use him to help us figure this out. I am encouraged.Â
Great God hunt, Bev — and thanks for your encouragement.
Wow! Bev!! Thank you for sharing this information on the miracle for Israel!! I would love to read the article….do you share the source? Praising God for His faithfulness in caring for Israel, though they have not been so faithful to Him.Â
Amen, to your response to Dee! I am trusting God to use what Dee considers a “mistake” for the good of some souls. We live in a difficult time.Â
Bev, I love your Godhunt! I was amazed, too when I heard about the Iran rocket attacks on Israel. I had a quick thought of awe at how God protected Israel but the physicist’s explanation gave me goosebumps! Who else can make things work perfectly for God’s people? I say, wow, again, Lord!
Thanks for sharing!
Bev, loved your God hunt.  I read the quote to my husband and his response was, âwow, that just gives you goosebumps!â  We serve an amazing GodâŠthanks for sharing âŁïž
Bev,
This is such an interesting and incredible account from Mordecai Avitbul.  Would you copy and paste the source of this article for us?
Thank you!
Sunday: God Hunt!
1.      Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
My classroom seems to be a place where I see a lot of God sightings. So here is another one: one of my students who is a chatterbox and who seemed oblivious to how she comes across when she opens her mouth, asked me a question that initially offended me. I was tempted to give her a smart aleck-y or sarcastic response but the Spirit helped me hold my tongue. And He helped me to say words that were true and gracious. As I reflected on that conversation later, I realized my idol of approval was dethroned! A small victory for me with the Spiritâs help. Philippians 4:13 in the context of strength to prevail in doing good came to mind. âI can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.â
2.     What stands out to you from the above and why?
Dee, I did not know about your story with your pickleball friends. Thank you for sharing this with us and humbly acknowledging what you could have done differently. That is very impactful to me personally as Richard and I deal with a sensitive issue in our church regarding marriage. Tim Keller has opened my eyes to different ways of reaching the generation younger/older than me. I pray to God to forgive me for my futile and human attempts to reach others for Christ and that I would be sensitive to the Spirit as He leads. and yes, He can surely turn our failures into something beautiful as He only can.
Great God Hunt Bing — and thanks.
Monday: Review (Identity)
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
People back then had a belief in God, belief in an afterlife, belief in the moral law and belief in sin, had some respect for the Bible and an understanding of these things. Â So back then it was easier to reach that generation through guilt because the meaning of life was to be good whether you were a Christian or not. Â They were told youâll never overcome your guilt by just being good but that youâll have to get forgiveness from Jesus.Â
You addressed their guilt.
4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
They wanted to be free to discover their true self and express that without guilt.Â
5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
It changed from being psychological to sociological. Â Itâs all about justice, creating your own self and including marginalized people/identites.
Christianity gives you the only identity that is received and not achieved.  Trying to create yourself is a lot of pressure, but because of what Christ did for me, dying on the cross and taking the penalty for me and when I believe in Him I can  know Iâll be loved unconditionally forever.  Weâre righteous in Christ and what that means is, the minute I become a Christian God loves me as perfectly now as he will 5 billion years from now when Iâm perfect. Â
6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
James 1:9-11 basically says, the rich Christian should think about his low position and the poor Christian should think about his high position. Â Christian identity says that youâre a sinner and youâd go to hell if it wasnât for Jesus Christ. Â It makes you go low, youâre a sinner, you deserve nothing and say I canât save myself and yet in Christ I am loved and accepted. Â If youâre a poor person and all your life youâve been told youâre nothing, when you become a Christian you should dwell on your high position, on who you are in Jesus Christ. Â But if youâve been rich and you become a Christian you need to remember your low position, youâre a sinner saved by sheer grace. Â The Christian identify doesnât exclude people but is an enormous equalizer and takes all the pressure off.
Excellent summaries!
1. Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
I knew God was with me last week as I tried to keep myself on top of my very hectic schedule and getting ready for Spring Break week. He was right beside me, helping me get through. Thank You, Jesus! I managed to make it and now have a week to ârest.â
I also continue to see and hear things in my classroom from students who are Christians! A cross sticker on a water bottle, conversations about church activities, etc. I am hopeful by these activities near me at school!Â
2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I guess I donât understand why your pickle all friends would be mad at you about a story you were telling about yourself đ€·đ»ââïž. It was what happened to you. Iâm trying to put myself in your shoes by using what happened to meâŠ.my story about how I came to actually know Jesus; would that have worked? I was a church goer my whole life, but it wasnât until my 2 middles begin to give us trouble as teens that I gave myself completely to Him. I realized I was not in control and needed someone else to be in control. I gave up and gave it to Him and then I was free! It was a beautiful thing! I later realized I had made idols of my children, thanks to you, Dee.
Iâm also struggling with the Keller interview, myself. I think Iâm still a baby, and this is way over my head! I understand what he means about divisive politics. I canât understand Christians being okay with abortion, for example. I donât understand how/why we should âchangeâ our message to fit the ânew age.â Isnât the message the same? Love God and love people. I think todayâs world would appreciate that sentiment, right? But, are we trying to get them to come to church? Is that the goal? I suppose we could lure them with learning about how to love people using the Gospel. Iâm just not sure Iâm understanding what I need to, and gleaning what I should from the interview. Iâm a fairly literal person so when I read the Bible I try to uphold what it says. This generation would react to loving others, Iâm fairly certain of that. Wouldnât many of the healings and parables be of interest to them? Plus, Iâm not a pastor eitherâŠjust little ole me đ
I understand your frustration. I know Keller is not saying to change the gospel message. He is saying to get into the mindset.
When I said that what I did was wrong, they had so justified their own behavior, they wanted to run from me instead of receiving it. It is true, we must eventually get to morality, but if you can’t even get them to listen to the evidences for the truth of Christianty, you will fail.Â
Did it make sense to you that if you show them Christianity is desirable, then they might listen to the evidences for the resurrection?
I see. They wanted to justify their behavior, not feel bad about what they had done.Â
I also can see how you need to make  Christianity desirable. I appreciate you clearing it up! I did not get that from the interview. So many of us, myself included, seem to be unhappy, when we should be happy that we are saved forever!  We should definitely be happy about that.Â
Sunday: God Hunt!
1. Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
Our son and his family have been coming to church quite regularlyâŠI see a softness in our son towards the things of Christ which is an answer to prayer. Â
I would appreciate prayer in my attitude towards our church. Â Iâm hanging in there for my son as I donât want to be a stumbling block.
2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I so appreciate your honesty and transparency Dee. Â I donât look at your pickle ball experience as a failure but rather a learning process and that seeds were planted. Â
That’s wonderful news about your son. Oh Lord, please continue wooing him!
Thanks, Sharon.
Sharon, this is wonderful to hear about your son. I will pray that he is drawn to Jesus in a very personal and lasting way. I pray for you to hang in there, dear sister in Christ.Â
Sharon, thanking God for answers to prayers for your son. I am praying for you regarding your church. I, too, have my “moments” with our church. But may God find us faithful to seek Him always and to give Him our disappointments and unmet expectations.
Thank you so much Dee, Patti & BingâŠappreciate your support and prayersâ€ïž
Sharon, My heart aches with you but also can identify with you about your son, and in not wanting to cause him to stumble via the church issues. That is a huge encouragement and also a correction for me. You are wise, sister!
That is a HUGE encouragement that your son and his family are going to church. WOW.. God is on the move.Â
Thank you Rebeccaâ€ïžâŠI have been a stumbling block in the past and am praying for His  strength and wisdom not to go there again đ
Monday: Review (Identity)
This is from about 10 minutes to a little over 15.
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
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âThey could assume a Christsodom culture was in place and there was a social pressure to attend church at least occasionally. So when people came to church they just preached to the Chrisodom mindset and connected the dots of belief in a personal God, belief in an afterlife of heaven and hell,  belief in a moral law and sin. So they would preach to people who had a basic respect for church who felt the meaning of life was to be good and you preached to their guilt.Â
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4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
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âIt was a culture where the meaning of life was to be true to yourself. And people wanted to be free to discover themselves. Who they really were inside and be free to discuss that without feeling guilty.Â
It was all about the psychological.Â
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5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
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âNow today it is all about the sociological. About Justice. About creating yourself and including the marginalized.Â
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It has become all about identity. The pressure is on people when they try to create their own identity.Â
Keller said  âChristianity is the only identity that is received and not achieved.â
The message then to them is that God loves me unconditionally forever. I am righteous in Christ. And God loves me perfectly through all ups and downs forever. Postmodernism says identity is based on performance. A role that has to be played out.Â
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6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
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âChristian identity says that you are a sinner and without Christ you will go to hell. The lowest position is that I canât save myself. The low person who has been put down all his life for who he is when he accepts Christ is immediately raised up to a high standing because of Jesus and should dwell on his new identity in Christ.Â
But the rich person who has always been in a high position of acceptance and affirmation of who they are when he accepts Christ needs to remember their low position that they are a sinner saved by grace alone and are no better than anyone else.Â
Identify in Christ is the great equalizer. Keller commentedÂ
âI donât care where you guys are forming your identity there is no identity like the one in Jesus Christ.â
âThe gospel is that Jesus saves you and you donât. â
Great notes, Bev.
1. Do you have a God Hunt from last week?
I was feeling like my young friend, Tom, may have been overwhelmed at church last week. I kind of felt like maybe I had overstepped. I sent a note last night, just saying I hope he found some answers about wanting to volunteer and hoped that he was not overwhelmed. I received a very sweet note back. He said he was excited to meet with the youth pastor this Thursday. Praising God, as I thought I had messed everything up….but He had a plan. Tom signed the note “God bless you.” The Lord is working, even when we are clumsy, like me.Â
2. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Dee, I have been so sad about the response from your Pickle ball friends. You are always so honest and open, and true to the Lord and to good morals. I agree with Sharon, that you have planted seeds. You were truthful, but it feels like people snubbed you because of your godly values. I am praying for the hearts of those who heard you. I love the interview with Keller. I have listened to it at least 7 times. Our culture has changed. Only God’s Word can transform us. People have a difficult time these days, dying to self. We are a self driven society and many don’t want to hear words to change themselves, but to keep the habits they love and fit God into that lifestyle. To quote my pastor: “we should not put ourselves on the platform of the “Unholy Trinity”: Me, Myself, I. (speaking of people who don’t want to change for Jesus.) Your holy words can land on ears that do not want to change their lifestyle, it is difficult for them to die to self and give one’s all to Jesus. ( I know that is a bit redundant)
Great news about Tommy.
You are always a balm to me Patti.
7 times. You are getting to be as big a fan as I am! Honestly, there are riches in every sentence.
Amen! I glean something new each time I listen.Â
Patti, I thought I was being too much having listened 4x to TK and being on my 5th! And you beat me by another 2x! Hahaha. Yes, Dee, we are getting to be quite the fans of TK.Â
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3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
You know (in your heart)Â you should be good, but you are not as good as you would like to be(guilt). Jesus can forgive you and you will be accepted.
4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
Be free to discover your true self. Psychological (Freudian). Getting free from people making you feel guilty. But a great career can’t forgive your sin, it can only enslave you.
5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?Â
The new emphasis is Sociological. It is centered on Social justice, including marginalized people and identities, creating your own identity. Keller says: Christianity give you the only identity that is received, not achieved. It is a gift. Creating your self has a “falseness” about it; Identity is a role you play, it has no redemption. You exclude bigots etc, as a way of bolstering self and your insecure identity (comparing yourself to others, angry when others don’t support you.)
6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
Christianity is the great equalizer. We all deserve nothing, for we all have sinned. In Christ, I am loved more than I could hope. Keller quote: “Jesus says ‘The Father loves you, even as He loves Me.” Dwell on who you are in Jesus. Christian identity does not exclude anyone. It is the greatest gift given.
Dee, this study is so good!
Monday: Review (Identity)
This is from about 10 minutes to a little over 15.
1.      How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
That generation believed the meaning of life is being good so if they are not good, they need Jesus to forgive them of their sins and to overcome their guilt.
2.     How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
They wanted freedom. Freedom to do what they want, to pursue who they think they want to be. Freedom to tap into their inner child and express it without having to deal with their guilt.
3.      How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
They now want identity, to make a name for themselves. To go out and find themselves in either their work, success, or family. In the end, it will not satisfy. As the song goes, âNever enoughâ. We reach them by making them see that performance can never earn them their identity. There is always something that needs filling. The only identity that is given and not earned can be found in Christ alone.
4.     Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
The poor man is at his lowest and when he comes to believe in Christ, he is elevated to being co-heirs with Christ. He was raised to this position without working for it. The rich man, though he thinks he has everything does not have anything until he gives his life to Christ. He also did not do anything to earn Christ’s love for him. Rich or poor, we are all at the same level at the foot of the cross.
This is so true, Bing! As the song goes, âNever enoughâ. We reach them by making them see that performance can never earn them their identity. There is always something that needs filling. The only identity that is given and not earned can be found in Christ alone.
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?)
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Via guilt.
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4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want?
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They want to be true to themselves. They wanted to be free to discover themselves. You should be able to express that without guilt.Â
He tried to explain to them that they were actually slaves to their careers and needed to be freed by Jesus.
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5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? How did Keller suggest reaching them?
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Itâs all about justice, creating myself, and marginalized people. Identity is a role I play.
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Christianity gives us the only identity received, not achieved. Jesus lost His glory and paid the penalty for us. Because of that, I know God loves me perfectly, forever. Itâs not up and down no matter how well I perform.Â
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Itâs all about using the cultural trends and the âplot lineâ of the culture to project a happy ending with the Gospel.
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6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain.
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Christian identity doesnât exclude people. Those with their own identity excludes others (âIâm not as bad asâŠ.â). There is no identity that is excluded in Jesus. You are [all] a sinner who needs saving. It doesnât matter if you are rich or poor.Â
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Great, Laura!
Laura, Love your answer to 6.) Christian identity doesnât exclude people. Those with their own identity excludes others (âIâm not as bad asâŠ.â). There is no identity that is excluded in Jesus. You are [all] a sinner who needs saving. It doesnât matter if you are rich or poor.Â
2. What stands out to you from the above and why? Keller’s wisdom on where to go with unbelievers in our culture now who want to be free by going their own way. It is indeed slavery, not freedom.
Also, Dee’s story stood out, but I want to encourage you, Dee. :-)You are teachable and humble and that is what I see in your story, even though I agree that our culture has become guilt-numbed which has resulted in a mindset of doing things my way will bring freedom. The fact that you are willing to listen and then correct course on what our culture really needs is what impacted me the most. You are VERY mature and so I really want to be like you as I grow more. More humble, more like Christ.
I took an evangelism class and their heart was in the right place, but the methods were old and dated. I knew if someone were to approach me that way I would’ve said I wanted nothing to do with Christianity. Especially if it was focused on heaven vs. hell instead of relationship. This might be pride, and I hope not (yikes), but I cringe when I hear someone say, “If you were to die today, do you know if you’d go to heaven?” or read a tract that says, “How to get to heaven.” I think I would’ve answered. “I don’t know, prove to me heaven exists and I’ll give you my answer.” That’s not reaching the heart need!
I so agree with you, Rebecca! Dee, You are VERY mature and so I really want to be like you as I grow more. More humble, more like Christ.
Awww Rebecca, I see so much maturity in you!
Rebecca,Â
You are an encourager too. I see it on this blog. I agree that some of those methods you mention in your last paragraph, might make me run the other way. You seem like a very relational and open Christian woman, who draws others to Jesus.Â
10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in? Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful?
Many of the churches in this part of the country do not focus on the gospel. It can be very hard to find a Christ centered church. Yet, one on one, there are many who have an emptiness that can only be filled by a relationship with Jesus. I have found that just being friends with someone can give me opportunities to talk about what Jesus has done in my life. There are many lonely people of all ages.Â
I admit this was convicting to me who lives in Ephraim with a population of about 300 â though swells to thousands in the summer. Again, perhaps if I had heard this 20 years ago, I would have made a different choice on where to live after Steve died. Yet IÂ know God can use me here, though probably not as much as He would in the city.Â
11. If you do live in the city, what opportunities do you have to serve Him that I might not? How are you taking advantage of this?
I think that you are amazing at connecting with others, Dee. I would totally flunk pickle ball. đ I do best with one on one relationships. I am not good at socializing in big groups of people that I don’t know. I probably need to get better at that. I have met many neighbors, just by walking my dogs. I like to keep in close touch with friends from years back and new friends as well. I like to be there, when someone just needs a listening ear. Sometimes, all you need to do is be available. I also stay in touch with my grandchildren and am available whenever they need to talk.Â
3. How did pastors thirty years ago preach to reach their generation? (And how did I?) By addressing their guilt and how they could be free of it.
4. How did that change when Keller came to Redeemer in the nineties. Instead of wanting to be free of guilt, what did they want? To be free to discover their true self. They wanted to be free to go their own way.
5. How did Keller say identity has shifted yet again? Now people want justice, they want to create their own selves, and include marginalized people. How did Keller suggest reaching them? Your identity in Christ is something that you have received, you don’t have to work for it. It is given to you. You are just as loved now as you will be in 5 billion years. It also doesn’t exclude. If you think that you’re non-judgemental and inclusive, you are going to look down on bigots. Which in itself is not being inclusive.
6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain. The rich Christian should think about his low position and the poor Christian should think about his high position. If you are a poor person, in a low position in life when you become a Christian your identity is in Christ you should dwell on who you are in Him. How raised your position is. If you’re a rich person, all of your life you’ve had the best and have been told how great you are, when you become a Christian you should dwell on the fact that you are a sinner that deserves hell and are nothing without Christ.
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7. What are the four biblical values? Racial equality, justice for the marginalized, pro-life and sex only between a man and a woman when they are married.
8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon? Because it means he’s not being a coward in his preaching.
9. What else do you remember from the first half of Kellerâs interview? To think that most people think that the meaning of life is to be good is not true in America today. They think that the meaning of life is to be true to yourself.
Tuesday: Review (Politics)
7. What are the four biblical values?
Christians should be sold out to racial justice, races are equal, weâre all made in the image of God.
Be deeply concerned about the poor and marginalized.
Be pro-life.
They should believe that sex should only be between a man and a woman in marriage.
8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon?
When you see this you say to yourself, ok, Iâm not a total coward.
9. What else do you remember from the first half of Kellerâs interview?
What he says from 1 Corinthians 1. Â âYou have to find a way to take the plot line of the culture and give it a happy ending in Jesus. Â For example from Corinthians 1, the Jews want power and the Greeks want wisdom but the cross is weakness to the Jews and foolishness to the Greeks but to the Jews and Greeks that are being saved itâs the true wisdom and the true power of God. What is Paul doing? Â The culture of the Jews is pragmatic, they want to know how to get things done, give me power. Â The culture of the Greeks was, theyâre artists, they want contemplation, they want wisdom, they want beauty. Â What Paul is saying is, the gospel confronts the idolatryâs of both of these cultures differently, the cross confronts the idolatry of power and wisdom, but the cross is the true wisdom and the true power of God. Â In the cross you actually get, Oh culture, what you want. Â This is contradictory fulfillment, itâs subverting it and fulfilling it.â
This is so good, Sharon:Â What Paul is saying is, the gospel confronts the idolatryâs of both of these cultures differently, the cross confronts the idolatry of power and wisdom, but the cross is the true wisdom and the true power of God. Â In the cross you actually get, Oh culture, what you want. Â This is contradictory fulfillment, itâs subverting it and fulfilling it.â
Amen to Sharon’s insight!
12. Why did Keller say, âMy church does not have to grow (numerically)? What is the danger in putting the emphasis there? The church grows if the people are growing spiritually and showing their faith. It must grow in joy, worship, etc. growing numerically should be a by-product of that. So we shouldn’t put an emphasis on growth but rather on spiritual growth.Â
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13. Keller said he wasnât sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.? Evangelical colleges could lose their accreditation, and christian radio stations lose their licenses because they are considered bigoted and hateful. We shouldn’t live in fearfulness of it. We have to not be afraid but be ready for it. Not be shocked if it happens.
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14. Why is it good if this hostility doesnât happen â and why is it still good if it does? It’s a win win. If it doesn’t happen, that’s great. If it doesn’t happen it’s better for us spiritually. If it happens, it’s better for us institutionally.Â
I somehow did Wednesday on Tuesday.Â
6. Quoting Keller: âChristianity gives you the only identity that is given not earned.â He gave James 1:9-11 as ways both the poor man and the rich man should perceive his identity. Explain. I already answered this question, yet I wanted to share this quote on Tim Keller’s website this morning. Love this wording:
“The rich brother needs to let the gospel humble him while the poor brother needs to let the gospel affirm him.”
7. What are the four biblical values?
 1) Sold out for Racial justice
2) Deep concern for the poor and marginalized
3) Pro life
4) For Christians, sex should only be between a man and a woman in marriage
8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon?
Then he feels as if “I am not a total coward here.” đÂ
Last night I watched another interview of Keller by Nieuwhof. Keller talked about how the mainline churches in America have lost so many members, unlike their counterparts in other continents who have stayed truer to Scripture. But he also said that now evangelicals, particularly white evangelicals, are losing members because they hold firmly only to two of the above values and come across as moralistic and judgmental.Â
9. What else do you remember from the first half of Kellerâs interview?
Inherited religion is dying. Young people choose what they want to believe. The protective covering is gone. There are more devout Christians, as well as more estranged Christians.Â
His comment about white evangelicals was sobering. And I see it. There must be a better answer to immigration — I really feel we should be letting people in, but somehow finding a way to vet. Seems our government should be able to figure it out — other than just building a wall which seems heartless. There’s a political remark from me — going where angels fear to go.
Yes, it was sobering…. and I see it too. I agree there needs to be a reasonable plan, but both sides of our government seemed at odds with each other. I do know some who have come in, are not vetted. They are very good citizens, hard workers, love this country and want to get citizenship and many are committed Christians; at the same time, others are criminals and marketing drugs. We have both in this area. So much confusion….it is a difficult time we live in. Lord come quickly!
There are laws about how immigrants come into our country. I canât just waltz across the border of any other country on Earth! These Palestinian studentsâ visas should be revoked. We allow peaceful protests! They are not peaceful. They are spewing hate speech. Why arenât they arrested for that? It all started back in Portland, Oregon, when we allowed people to beat up and actually kill people without consequence! I couldnât believe it was happening in my own country. Isnât it ironic that Eisenhower  had to call out the National Guard to walk blacks to class in the 50âs and yet in 2024 Jewish students have to stay in their dorms? Since when do we not support everyone in our country? Not right. Not American. Patti is correct; there are some very bad people coming across the southern border right now. We need to get rid of the current administration before our America is totally destroyed. Remember how they want to âfundamentally change America?â We are not socialist or communist, thank the Lord!  We canât be naive about this. There are bad people in the world. They donât care about eternity or God. We canât change people like that. At least I am just little old me and canât do a whole lot to help the situation other than vote the politicians out of office who are creating this chaos!Â
10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in? Because they are busy and unmanageable. Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful? Because there is so much need. There are so many different people with different needs, that it is impossible to not find somewhere to be useful.
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I forget where you live, Dawn. Is it in a city?
7. What are the four biblical values?
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He speaks of racial justice, the poor, sex is between a man and a woman in marriage, and be pro-life.
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8. Why did he say it was somewhat satisfying when people got up and walked out during a sermon?
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It meant he wasnât a coward! The Bible sees all four of these ideas as one cloth.Â
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10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in? Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful?
They are expensive, and culturally diverse. No mission available to address these problems. It can be uncomfortable. There is so much need, however, so much to do!
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11. If you do live in the city, what opportunities do you have to serve Him that I might not? How are you taking advantage of this?
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I live in a small (30,000) town, not really a city. I will admit, this is a challenge for me. I donât think of serving in a city, although I have travelled to the bigger city of Manchester, NH to pray outside the abortion clinic. I have, years ago, served at a church food bank. I give clothing to certain groups. I give my time to help judge Christian speech and debate competitions for home school groups. My problem is that I am so busy working and caring for my family, I donât think (ugh) of outreach. I assume that our church sponsors many missionaries and that is their job to do for us. I suppose I should think about this more.
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Maybe you and your family could get connected to one of those missionaries and really pray for them. They so need prayer! Just a thought.
That is a great idea Dee! We know a few of them personally.Â
Wednesday: Cities
10. What are some reasons cities are so difficult to live in?
They are expensive, Â culturally diverse, complicated & ministry needs are different.
Yet why also can city dwellers be very useful?
Because there are so many people and so many needs, but you must have a ministry mindset.
11. If you do live in the city, what opportunities do you have to serve Him that I might not?
I donât live in a big city. Â As of 2022 the population of our city is approximately 10,000 people.
How are you taking advantage of this?
This whole conversation was interesting to me as I think God will use us wherever we are. Â My parents and other missionaries lived near a small African village and at least 2 days from a city. Â Our mission field had a seminary school to train the Africans to become pastors and so church planting took place. Â There was a church where many Africans attended from the village near us and other villages not so near. Â I think we need to be where God has called us to be and be obedient to that calling for whatever capacity it is.
This is so true, Sharon: I think we need to be where God has called us to be and be obedient to that calling for whatever capacity it is. AMEN! This is so true. I have a totally different sense of calling than I had when I was young. There are so many needs everywhere right now that I feel there will always be places to serve.Â
Good point, Sharon!
“I think we need to be where God has called us to be and be obedient to that calling for whatever capacity it is.” This is good, Sharon! An encouragement to let God use us wherever He places us.
12. Why did Keller say, âMy church does not have to grow (numerically)? What is the danger in putting the emphasis there?
Data driven churches are not necessarily growing hearts to Christ. Keller makes decisions based on moral values. If people are growing spiritually and sharing their faith the church will grow. Growth is a by product; the church body must grow in joy and spirit. It is not about getting more people in the door, but about growing more people towards a knowledge and love of the Lord.
13. Keller said he wasnât sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.?
Churches could lose non-profit status; colleges could lose accreditation; Christian stations could lose FCC licenses.
 14. Why is it good if this hostility doesnât happen â and why is it still good if it does?
If this hostility doesn’t happen, it is better for the institution; If it does happen, it is better for us spiritually.
From Patti:
Data driven churches are not necessarily growing hearts to Christ. Keller makes decisions based on moral values. If people are growing spiritually and sharing their faith the church will grow. Growth is a by product; the church body must grow in joy and spirit. It is not about getting more people in the door, but about growing more people towards a knowledge and love of the Lord.
Dee and Patti, I liked Tim’s answer to this question # 12. “It is not about getting more people in the door, but about growing more people towards a knowledge and love of the Lord.”
If this hostility doesnât happen, it is better for the institution; If it does happen, it is better for us spiritually. This one reminds me of Romans 8:28. whatever happens, god is working it out for good.
Saturday:
21. What is your take-a-way? Why?
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âThis week I got totally derailed from answering questions and posting here so I am going to just finish the week with the Saturday take away. We left Tuesday morning and traveled with our daughter and husband to attend a grandsonâs college choir concert 5 hrs away and then made a side trip on the way back home to pick up another grandson from the airport in Omaha. So I had 3 days on the road with family. I daily do my personal quiet time but just couldnât find the extra time to get plugged into answering questions here like when Iâm home in my little office space. Â I read the comments this morning (that always blesses me đ) and I have listened to the Keller interview twice in the past couple of weeks. Way behind some of you but I will listen again and try to enlarge on the brief notes I have taken.Â
There are a plethora of take aways from this study of Kellerâs interview so just have to choose one. đ
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âSomething Keller said that stood out to me is  âThe gospel is that Jesus saves you and you donât. âÂ
It was a bottom line answer in reference to the identity question of today. People thinking the meaning of life is to be true to yourself. He said thatÂ
âChristianity is the only identity that is received and not achievedâ and that Christ is the identity equalizer.Â
Because of what Jesus did.Â
There is no identity you can find like the one in Jesus Christ.Â
He used the James passage of how the poor Christian and the rich Christian should identify in what Jesus has done for them.Â
I think he actually applied his bottom line comment to whatever philosophy is the over riding influence on the culture. It will always be true.Â
âThe gospel is that Jesus saves you and you donât. âÂ
The challenge comes in how I can meet and engage the current culture in its need to hear and understand the true Gospel.Â
Amen to your great take aways, Bev! Such a blessing to have a road trip with family and your grandson’s choir concert !!
Same here, Bev! I had a busy week and appreciate reading your takeaways and the comments here of many.
Thursday: Healthy Churches and The Future
12. Why did Keller say, âMy church does not have to grow (numerically)?
Itâs more important to have spiritual growth and numerical growth may be a byproduct of that.
 What is the danger in putting the emphasis there?
He talks about putting emphasis on what ought to be vs what is and getting caught up in data and what ought to be. Â He gets the âwhat isâ based on moral values that come from scripture.
Iâve been involved in churches that are so focused on numerical growth that spiritual growth becomes an afterthought and people are floundering in who they are in Christ.
13. Keller said he wasnât sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.?
They could get their accreditation taken away. Â We should be ready for a hostile culture but not fear it.
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14. Why is it good if this hostility doesnât happen â and why is it still good if it does?
Itâs better institutionally if it doesnât happen but better spiritually if it does.
Oh Dee! I just saw the devastation in Nebraska! Itâs awful. I wonder if Joyceâs family was affectedâŠpraying for all those states that had tornados yesterday. Do you still have family in Nebraska? â„ïžâ„ïžâ„ïžđđđ
Praying with you, Laura.
Laura, I saw that, too! I don’t know of anyone personally who has been affected by the tornadic activities. Somebody related to one of my sister-in-law’s daughters-in-law had their home destroyed by the tornado in Elkhorn, NE. Yes, praying, indeed.
15. What was Pascalâs advice?
Bring people to the place where they wish Christianity was true, then show them it’s true.
16. How could you show others that Christianity has been so attractive for you? Be specific.Â
Knowing Jesus gave me a peace about why I am here and why every word I say and every act I do is important. It gave me peace, knowing that God is in charge of my life and He has a purpose for me on this earth. A good marriage, good job and travel are all wonderful, but those thing can be every changing and don’t fill your soul the way Jesus does. Jesus does not change. He is always there for us.Â
 17. What question from Keller âturns people into a pretzel.â (I asked this question of my stylist this week and had a break-through!)
How do you determine whether something is right or wrong….how do you make a moral judgment?Â
 18. What did Keller have to say about âemotional apologetics.â What example did he give from C. S. Lewis? (Lewis listed 3 ways people cope with meaningless lives.)
The book by Spufford: Unapologetics: Why, In spite of everything, Christianity still make great emotional sense.Â
C. S. Lewis: When you grow up, you discover that all the things you thought were going to make you happy, don’t do it. List them. 1) Job 2) Spouse 3) Travel
19. Now, how might you incorporate this into your testimony?
Looking back, I see how much better my life has been, since I gave it to Jesus. I think it is my testimony….I can look back and see Him in the good times and the bad times. He is faithful always.
12. Why did Keller say, âMy church does not have to grow (numerically)? What is the danger in putting the emphasis there?
You worry about the numbers and not the people and their needs.
BUT, isnât the whole point of the Great Commission to bring people to Christ via the Gospel??
13. Keller said he wasnât sure how hostile the culture is going to get. What could happen to churches, colleges, etc.?
Tax freedom loss, college accreditation loss regulations that donât align with the faith, persecution.
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14. Why is it good if this hostility doesnât happen â and why is it still good if it does?
Itâs good either way because the church can continue itâs mission and grow if left alone, and when the persecution happens we grow deeper in our faith.
Saturday:
21. What is your take-a-way? Why?
There were so many it was hard to pick one or two!
We have had a busy week with moving out of our old house, the last week of school for me (yay!), and the graduation ceremony last night. We were under a tornado warning and I was impressed with the turnout despite the weather. Quite many students and guests came in wet from the rain. Somebody would think we were crazy! It was small-town community support at its best. The venue was relatively full-there were more family and friends  than I expected.
My main takeaway was asking myself how I can share the gospel in ways that are relevant and attractive to the hearer. There is much love and freedom in the way Tim Keller approaches this topic. This has brought me clarity to some confusing thoughts I have had in terms of being an ambassador for Christ. This is one interview I will go back to again and again. I am looking for some more similar talks on YouTube.
I love the small town community support at its best!! THE BEST! What a week you have had and God was with you every minute! Praise His Name!
15. What was Pascalâs advice?
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He said to bring people to a place where they wish Christianity was true and then show them itâs true.
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16. How could you show others that Christianity has been so attractive for you? Be specific.
 Oh the FREEDOM!! If people could understand how (as the song King of Kings says), âIn His freedom I am FREE!â They would want to be here with me!Â
When I was a baby Christian I needed control of everything and everyone. As I have grown in Christ I do not need to do that anymore. I know He is in charge! He is in control and I donât have to be anymore. It is total freedom.
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17. What question from Keller âturns people into a pretzel.â (I asked this question of my stylist this week and had a break-through!)
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I would love to hear this story! The question is âHow do you decide if something is right or wrong?â
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18. What did Keller have to say about âemotional apologetics.â What example did he give from C. S. Lewis? (Lewis listed 3 ways people cope with meaningless lives.) List them.
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People need to want it to be true for it to be true to them. Christianity makes emotional sense (from a book he read that he didnât recommend all of)
It helps us make moral decisions.
Mere Christianity on âhope.âCS Lewis said all the things that you thought were going to make you happy (good things) donât. There is emptiness. 1) you say, âI need a better wife, marriage, job, etc. 2) you say, âThere is no happiness.â You get cynical. It dehumanizes you. 3) Satisfaction of our desires exists, but it must be from another world, not here.
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19. I could incorporate this by helping others look forward to eternal life instead of the fleeting life here on Earth. The problem I see here though, is that people are connected to their families and familiar things that they canât see life without them. I would agree that it is difficult indeed. I suppose a testimony of freedom here on earth (from control) and realization that knowing Jesus well (itâs something I needed to understand before I understood freedom in Christ), by reading the NT, I now know that God left a little bit of Himself inside of each of us, so that the longing for Him, the desire, is there, and we just need to tap into it. By doing so, we leave behind the amenities of this life for the life ahead of us. Itâs the Francis Chan âRopeâ analogy.Â
https://youtu.be/cMbbVR88kd0?si=8gyh9PylIeYmAq5D
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