Only five verses this week — but WOW!
“When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven…”
Why?
We saw in Revelation 7:1 that angels hold back the final judgment, so that the saints can be sealed. Now we see they even hold back their own praise, so that the prayers of the saints can be heard by God.
We’re again going to see the similarity between the judgment in Exodus and the judgment in Revelation. With both, God is concerned about the suffering of His own and brings plagues. Plagues harden the hearts of unbelievers and refine believers.
History repeats, for the God of the ancient Hebrews is the God of us. This is a quote from Alec Motyer, who explains how the believers in Exodus might have described their salvation. We could say the same, word for word:
We were in a foreign land, in bondage, under the sentence of death. But our mediator—the one who stands between us and God—came to us with the promise of deliverance. We trusted in the promises of God, took shelter under the blood of the lamb, and he led us out. Now we are on the way to the Promised Land. We are not there yet, of course, but we have the law to guide us, and through blood sacrifice, we also have his presence in our midst. So he will stay with us until we get to our true country, our everlasting home.
I’ve always loved what God told Moses, and this is very relevant to this passage in Revelation:
I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey.
Exodus 3:7-8
This is the story of all saints as well. We have been, are being, and will be rescued from Satan. Right now we are traveling through the wilderness, through a time of tribulation, but God will bring judgment on those who persecute us, including Satan, and then bring us into the promised land. The prayers going up to God in Revelation seem to be the cries of deceased saints. But I don’t think it is a big leap to say that God also cares about our prayers, and certainly, other scriptures confirm this.
Our “crying out” matters. He cares about our suffering.
He hears.
In “Gentle and Lowly” Dane Ortland writes: “He hates with righteous hatred all that plagues you. In your grief, He is grieved. In your distress, He is distressed.”
This year has been a wonderful year for me for I have seen God answer my most fervent prayer, that He would kindle a passion for Him in the hearts of my children who seemed to lack it. I have always felt Sally has been stalked by Satan, and I also know my daughters Anne and Beth suffered so in their childhood orphanages. So I have been crying out for their release. G. K. Beale and David Campbell ask in their combined commentary: “Are our prayers directed toward obtaining benefit for ourselves or glory for God?” I know my prayers for my daughters have been that they will be released from Satan’s treacheries and bonds, and that is for God’s glory. This is important for me to see, for often God does not answer my prayers that are truly just for my own benefit and comfort.
Though it has taken time, this year, to my amazement, God came running and has rekindled passion in two of my children.
Yet despite His faithfulness, I’m still a bit like the believers in Acts 12 who, though they had been earnestly praying for Peter’s prison release, still, couldn’t believe it when Rhoda told them Peter was at the door.
Another important application which Dr. Campbell mentioned to me in an e-mail is that we need to be praying for our persecuted brothers and sisters. I confess I have prayed much more for my own children. Why? Because I love them so. So I think a wise prayer is to ask God to give you a burden for a particular people group. He has given me a burden for the Christians in North Korea — I’ve read more books than I can count that have stirred my cold heart. I’m now praying at least daily for them. When I asked our own Sharon why she was praying more last week, she said it is because of all the suffering brothers and sisters around the world. Help us to care and intercede, Lord!
Word Document #14
Sunday:
- What stands out to you from the above and why?
- When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you?
Monday: Scriptural Context
There are strong parallels, as we will see as we continue this study, between the plagues of Egypt and the judgments of Revelation. There are other parallels too, which will be helpful to keep in mind.
3. Read Exodus 3:7-10 and summarize God’s main message to Moses.
4. In Exodus 7:5, what was God’s main purpose for the plagues?
5. What other purposes did God have for the plagues according to Exodus 10:1-2?
6. And what purpose did He have for delivering the Israelites according to Exodus 14:4?
In both Exodus and in Revelation we see God asking for His glory. In the shorter Westminister Cathechism, the answer to “What is the chief end of man” is: “Man’s chief end is to glorify God, [a] and to enjoy him forever.”
7. Why is it important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God? (Take time with this.) And, how are you doing this?
Tuesday: The Seventh Seal
8. Read Revelation 8:1-5 aloud and share anything that stands out to you.
9. Compare Revelation 8:4-5 with Exodus 19:18-19. What similarity do you see and what might this mean?
10. Read Dr. Campbell’s opening paragraph under the seventh seal and answer:
A. What is the content of the seventh seal?
B. God told the prophet Habakkuk He was going to execute judgment both on Israel and then on the nations who He used to refine them. What does Habakkuk tell the people in Habakkuk 2:20 and how is this similar to Revelation 8:1? What do you learn from this?
C. What else stands out to you from this paragraph by Campbell?
D. I see a common thread with Job, Habakkuk, and here again in Revelation with the response to the judgment of God being silence. Why, do you think?
11. Read Campbell’s second paragraph and share what you learn about the meaning of:
A. “Hour”
B. “Half an hour”
C. The timing of judgment
D. What application do you see for yourself in the above?
Wednesday: The Different Views
In the Historist and Futurist views, the belief is that the four judgments occur chronologically, one after another, at the end of time. In the Idealist view, these various judgments (horses, seals, trumpets, bowls) are like the four different perspectives of the gospels which occurred at the same time. As you know, Dr. Campbell takes the Idealist view, and believes these judgments all occur simultaneously from the ascent of Christ to His return, though heightening in intensity at the very end. This is not a matter of salvation, and we must give grace and also pray to discern the truth.
12. Read Revelation 8:2-4 again. What does John see?
13. Read Dr. Campbell’s third paragraph beginning with “John sees further detail.”
A. What does the incense represent according to Campbell and what is his support?
B. Why does he think these are the prayers of the deceased saints?
C. What scriptural support does Campbell offer for these various judgments being parallel rather than consecutive chronological judgments?
D. Do you agree or disagree and why?
14. Read the following paragraph by Campbell and share his main point.
15. Read the rest of the section and find the comfort for believers and anything else that stands out.
Thursday/Friday Optional Kevin de Young Sermon or Shorter Meditation by the Kellers
Click below and find the Kevin de Young sermon on Revelation 8:1-5. (It’s at the end)
https://www.monergism.com/topics/mp3-audio-multimedia/00-new-testament-sermons-book/revelation/chapter-revelation/revelation-6
Or, this under 10 minute piece by Tim and Kathy Keller is actually on Psalm 150, but goes with this week’s theme on the prayers of the saints:
16. Share your comments or notes from the above sermon.
Saturday:
17. What is your take-a-way and why?
116 comments
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? OUCH but a GOOD OUCH. Our prayers for missionaries and our brothers and sisters around the world stood out. Such a crucial reminder to ask God to lay a people group on my heart and then pray fervently.
Another prayer that stood out was a gentle reminder from God to direct my prayers toward glory for God. Lately I’ve asked God to release me from a person in my life or help me see fruit in this person’s heart while I wait. Just the other day I changed it and added if this relationship will not bring you glory then I ask that you release me because I don’t have the courage to. God can do miracles in hearts but hearts can harden and though a mystery, He is in charge of it all. There is nothing I can do or say that would thwart His plan, and since I’m not sure I will wait and trust. I recall when Moses lacked courage God gave Him Aaron-so nothing I do can thwart God’s plans. I certainly don’t have that much power.
2. When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you? To trust God more, for He goes before and behind me and hears me and feels pain with me, and loves me and those I pray for deeply. I’ve also learned, (and had, and have, and will continue to repent), that I don’t have as much control over circumstances and people as I thought and, objectively speaking, I am so glad I don’t! The reason I try to control isn’t for their good but for my comfort! What a burden to carry and how frustrating it is! Yet how freeing it is to trust God and walk in faith with circumstances and hearts and I have been getting better in that.
Yes, Rebecca-such a great prayer: Another prayer that stood out was a gentle reminder from God to direct my prayers toward glory for God.
oh Rebecca–this is such a beautiful surrender, wanting Him to be glorified more than even wanting the relationship for yourself. He has brought you to such a place of submission to Him above all else. I ache for you, and pray with you that He will lead you.
In my own way with my daughter, I relate too to the realization that yes, He can do anything but yet some hearts are hardened… I pray that either way in your situation you will be released from the weight, the pain and longing.
Lizzy, Dee and Bing -again, thank you thank you. Keep praying. There are days I see hope and other days I don’t but I am determined not to ride the emotional rollercoaster of putting my hope in the wrong person on days that look promising. In Christ alone. He is my hope, my solid ground. He made and owns the universe, He can handle this and so I trust-but need help from you, my sisters, to stand for He is in you and loves me through you. I’m human and can easily become weak. 🙂 (sorry, rabbit trailed!)
Oh Rebecca, I grieve to read this, feeling you are back in the same place with this person after having so much hope. I will indeed pray for you.
Dee, yes..just not sure what is going to happen. I see glimmers of hope at times like this week desiring to binge watch The Chosen season 2. Also, mentioning the desire to read David Campbell’s book after seeing it next to my PC and hearing me talk about it. Keep praying! I am so so grateful for your prayers.
Rebecca, God works in mysterious ways and I am blessed by your surrender. I need to do that as well with my daughter and other loved ones.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
This just kind of floored me: “they even hold back their own praise, so that the prayers of the saints can be heard by God”.
And also this: “ask God to give you a burden for a particular people group”. Ever since I was very young I have felt a burden for children in dangerous situations. I want to ask God to give me a specific group to pray for in that way.
2. When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you?
God hears our prayers. He loves to give good things. He is Sovereign. His ways are best. I often copy what I’ve heard you pray Dee, “unless You have a better plan…”
3. Read Exodus 3:7-10 and summarize God’s main message to Moses.
God sees the affliction of His people in Egypt and has heard their cry. He knows their sufferings and has come to deliver them out and into a land of blessing.
4. In Exodus 7:6 what was God’s main purpose for the plagues?
To demonstrate His power and convince Pharaoh to release His people.
5. What other purposes did God have for the plagues according to Exodus 10:1-2?
That they would know He is the Lord.
6. And what purpose did He have for delivering the Israelites according to Exodus 14:4?
That He would be glorified and all would know that He is the Lord.
7. Why is it important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God? (Take time with this.) And, how are you doing this?
God tell us Himself to glorify His name. Scripture tells us “Therefore, whatever you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God,” (1 Cor. 10:31).
The purpose for ALL of creation is to bring glory to God. There is no greater call for any living thing.
He is worthy of glory. He made each of us to then delight in Him and out of that love to reflect Him, love one another, praise Him, and in so doing we bring Him glory.
How am I doing? I immediately think of the ways I do not bring Him glory. When someone’s name is not safe in my mouth. When I complain or get easily frustrated with things not done as I would. When I doubt or worry.
Other times I find it “easy” to glorify Him-when I see the ways He has provided for my daughter, protected my family, deepened our faith. I love His Sovereignty. It is amazing to me that He holds ALL the power and is equally ALL wise, all good, all true. And that He longs to listen to us–it really is amazing the God He is. I think on that and it feels crazy to ever doubt or fear.
I want to bring Him glory always. I have felt such a burden lately, a strong desire, to be holy. I have learned that holiness is not a gift we receive, we must pursue it. I’m sure there’s a sinful part of me that wants to be holy so I can be thought of as holy, but a large part of my heart, He has made, desires to be holy to bring Him glory. Please forgive me Lord for the ways I fail to glorify Your name. Thank You for the incredible privilege You give us to be able to glorify You. Help me to reflect You more, for Your name.
Lizzy, oh that I, too would pursue holiness. Thank you for the prompt and your prayers. I pray this for myself, too. Please forgive me Lord for the ways I fail to glorify Your name. Thank You for the incredible privilege You give us to be able to glorify You. Help me to reflect You more, for Your name.
That’s a wonderful transition in why you desire holiness, Lizzy.
God will show you which group of children in danger to pray for. I’ve been so caught up in the transgender lies and grieved over all the young children taking hormones to try to change genders. Right now they can’t reverse and 80% regret it. Such child abuse.
Dee, oh so sad to hear this about children taking hormones to change genders. I was walking with a friend this morning and she shared how a mother she knows said that she wanted to have her newborn baby choose the gender later on.
Lizzie, thanks so much for bringing to my mind the realization that holiness must be pursued. I’ve read the verse in Hebrews, but somehow never saw it.
What stands out to you from the above and why? When you spoke of examining your prayers to see if they are to bring God glory which should be our ultimate desire. Some of my prayers are for my own convenience, I need to be more mindful of my motives.
When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you? That God delights in giving good things to his children. God answered my prayers recently. I haven’t heard from one of the kids that we sponsor since the Covid lockdown. I got 2 letters from her this week. She and her family are healthy.
Dawn, what a great answer to prayer with the kid that you sponsor!
And I am like you, more often than I would like to be- Some of my prayers are for my own convenience, I need to be more mindful of my motives.
Sweet answer to prayer, Dawn.
Sunday:
What stands out to you from the above and why?
I love Alec Motyer and have listened to several of his sermons. And I am glad to read his words again that you shared here, Dee. “Now we are on the way to the Promised Land. We are not there yet, of course, but we have the law to guide us, and through blood sacrifice, we also have his presence in our midst. So he will stay with us until we get to our true country, our everlasting home.”
May I always remember that He is here with me. I like this song by Francesca Battistelli. “Holy Spirit” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoZd7ZXh9yY
When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you?
He has often answered my prayers far beyond what I have asked and could ever imagine. Ephesians 3:20
There is no prayer too small for God to hear and answer. I wanted some corn one day and just thought it out loud. Then out of the blue, a member of our church came by our house and asked if we would like some corn! I couldn’t believe my eyes nor ears! The bearer of corn was a man named Ron-he was Rhoda for me that afternoon!
3. Dee, this was very convicting and I am still processing an experience from this morning: “Are our prayers directed toward obtaining benefit for ourselves or glory for God?”
Today, one of my sisters-in-law came to visit our church. We did not know she was coming. I was surprised to see some old wounds resurface. As I sat on the pew and search my heart, the Lord brought to my heart what I have been learning here. I need to surrender to God (again!) my tendency to give in to my idol of comfort. Relating to her means getting uncomfortable and I do not like that. But what will bring God the honor -my comfort or my sister-in-law’s ministry need)?
I prayed to be released from my idol and God answered. We invited her to our house for lunch and we had a pleasant conversation and I felt we ministered to her in a special way. God continually is working in my heart to have unconditional love for others.
Oh I can understand your struggle. One of my missionary friends told me she was going to stop praying for a friend because every time God gave her a friend who needed her a whole lot more than she needed her! But you are strong, Bing, so it doesn’t surprise me this is happening to you.
3. Read Exodus 3:7-10 and summarize God’s main message to Moses. He’s heard the cries of His people and He is coming to rescue them.
4. In Exodus 7:6 what was God’s main purpose for the plagues? To wear down the Pharaoh so he would free His people
5. What other purposes did God have for the plagues according to Exodus 10:1-2? So that they would tell their generations what God has done so they will know that He is the Lord.
6. And what purpose did He have for delivering the Israelites according to Exodus 14:4? So that they would learn to be still and trust God to fight for them.
In both Exodus and in Revelation we see God asking for His glory. In the shorter Westminister Cathechism, the answer to “What is the chief end of man” is: “Man’s chief end is to glorify God, [a] and to enjoy him forever.”
7. Why is it important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God? (Take time with this.) And, how are you doing this? Making the goal of our lives to glorify God is the foundation that helps us persevere in trials-to run the race well and finish well. Daily it will help us trust Him in the battles with satan and our flesh and will help us have more opportunities to repent as we see red flags in our thinking, speaking, and actions that make us doubt Him and desire to glorify ourselves. We will enjoy Him more and more and reflect Jesus more to everyone around us and attract them to Him. This goal is why we are here as Dee quoted above! It keeps us humble and dependent on Jesus.
How am I doing this? First of all I can do so much better! I fail more often than not but He knows that and though I can grieve Him, He still delights in me. I ask God to help me be more aware of the places in conversations, or in actions where I can drop Gospel seeds in someone’s life. I seize the time God gives to spend with God in His word and in just talking with Him.
So good to have you back, Rebecca.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I laughed out loud when I read there would only be five verses this week! Hahaha. You have stretched me far and wide in this study, Dee. I have learned so much but can barely keep up .!
Love the imagery of the saints releasing their prayers to God! Oh how touching. For some reason it reminds me of this song:
https://youtu.be/tqPMChzWLrE
Makes me cry.
2. When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you?
I realize that God is actually listening.
P.S. A plug for a book that features Dee as a child is wonderful! The babies make me read it to them nearly every day! I think it was written by her daughter in law (?). Is that correct, Dee? I think we will buy the others too!
Oh thank you for the plug, Laura. I have a daughter-in-law named Julie, but this is a charismatic pastor’s wife living near me. How is that for a charismatic and reformed women to work together! She and I are also working on Can A Boy Be A Girl? I love her and she’s VERY TALENTED. Your kids would probably like her Hurrying Worrying Henry too from furables.com
Thank you for clarifying Dee. I am so glad to hear you are working with her on that book! I’m guessing it will be a good one 😉.
Dee, you are a gem! I showed the babies pictures of you, Sally, me and Jackie at the Poconos retreat and they were so excited that they “knew” the “Dee” of the story! You are popular with these two. Hahaha! So sweet 😘
That’s so sweet, Laura!
Laura, I love the Chloe book about Dee and her sweet dog too! I also bought Hurrying Worrying Henry for our next door neighbor, Julia, who just turned three. Danielle (Julia’s mom) and Julia both love Hurrying Worrying Henry so much, they wanted the link to find more of Julie’s books! I think your babies will love it. Praying for your upcoming book, Dee, about “Can A Boy Be A Girl”.
Sunday
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
That He is concerned with our suffering…”Our crying out matters”, but how important it is that it’s to His glory and not for our benefit. I often wonder if God does hear my cries and if they really do matter, but honestly I don’t always stop to think what is my motive? This is such a good reminder for me and Lord please forgive me when it has been about me, about my comfort, about my persona and not about You!
2. When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you?
It teaches me that He is a God of surprises. How often have I prayed one way and He has answered it in a totally unexpected and different way. Then when I have seen how He does answer it, it makes so much more sense than what I’d been praying for. Therefore, it shows me He knows best and He is sovereign. And it also shows me His great love for me…what an amazing and faithful God!
Monday
3. Read Exodus 3:7-10 and summarize God’s main message to Moses. His main message is that He has heard the cries of His people, He has come to deliver them from their oppression and Moses is the man He is sending.
4. In Exodus 7:6 what was God’s main purpose for the plagues? Dee, I’m not sure if you meant verse 5, which is so the Egyptians would know that He is the the Lord.
5. What other purposes did God have for the plagues according to Exodus 10:1-2? He made Pharaoh and his officials stubborn so He could display miraculous signs among them. Also, so Moses could tell his children and grandchildren how God made a mockery of the Egyptians and the signs He displayed.
6. And what purpose did He have for delivering the Israelites according to Exodus 14:4? So His glory would be displayed through Pharaoh and his army.
7. Why is it important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God? (Take time with this.). I look at glorifying God as a picture of a scale…the more He is honored and valued in my life, the scale tips in His favor and the other side of the scale becomes lighter and less of me. That’s important so God and the work He wants to accomplish will be more visible than I am. And, how are you doing this? I have learned and am still learning that the world is watching…in my good times and in my sufferings and that scale is visible. What will my testimony be, to which side will the scale tip? I must die daily to self, be in His Word and prayer. More of Him and less of me.
Your last paragraph reminds me of John the Baptist — He must increase and I must decrease.
I found the way you put this interesting:
Also, so Moses could tell his children and grandchildren how God made a mockery of the Egyptians and the signs He displayed.
Reminds me of Psalm 2.
1. What stood out in the introduction and why.
It had never occurred to me that the angels were holding back their praise, nor that the silence was for God to better hear our prayers. What an encouragement to pray!
And then the need for us to have pure motives in prayer, to not be looking for our benefit and comfort, but for God’s glory. Makes me think of James saying we don’t have because we don’t ask, and when we do ask we don’t get because we pray selfishly, wanting to use the answers for our own pleasure.
2. What does answered prayer in your life teach you?
That God is far more gracious than I deserve. He is a good Father who delights to give good things to His children. That I am happier and more satisfied with the answers that glorify Him than the ones that are all about me. Prayer is part of the journey, teaching me about His character and allowing me to participate in His work rather than just being my getting what I ask for.
3. Exodus 3:7-10. God’s main message to Moses.
God had heard and seen the misery and suffering of His people. Their prayers were before Him, and He had concern for them. Now was the time for Moses to lead them out.
4. Exodus 7:6. God’s main purpose for the plagues.
Dee, did you by chance mean verse 5? That verse says He wanted Egypt to know that He was God. Reminds me of Ray VanderLaan in his video series, ‘That the world may know.” He said that phrase, basically the same as this one in Exodus, is used over and over in Scripture. I gather that our whole journey on earth is not only for our personal benefit, but to witness to the world the truth and beauty of the Lord.
5. Exodus 10:1-2. What other purposes did He have?
So that the people of Israel could tell the coming generations about God in such a way as to inspire them to believe and come to Him.
6. Exodus 14:4. What purpose did God have in delivering Israel?
Again, so that all of Egypt would know that He alone is God. So that He would receive glory. Which I take to mean in context, for them to have a proper understanding of Him and turn to Him.
7. Why is it important to have a goal to glorify God? How are you doing with this?
It is what we were created to be doing. Until we are caught up in that, our lives are seriously lacking. Jesus said it is possible to gain the world but lose our soul. We gain our soul by being what we were created to be, and that is worshippers of God. It is in worshiping Him that we find ultimate fulfillment. That is where we really find everything we keep searching everywhere else for.
Years ago, I knew and said it was my goal. Over the years, I’ve lost sight of that multiple times. The Lord has been showing me that I’ve allowed lies to speak to me, making me doubt His character and His goodness. I’ve said I felt I was a disappointment to Him, but truth is I was letting myself be disappointed with Him. Like weeds in a field, Jesus and I are addressing these one by one. As I agree with Him on what He shows me, it is bringing more joy and freedom to me.
Yes, I did mean verse 5 and will fix it. Thanks for your good eyes to catch those mistakes, Mary. I also smiled at the way you phrased it — “Did you perhaps mean…” Deborah Tannen’s book on women’s style of communication versus men’s says that women have learned how to diplomatically correct mistakes, saying to their husband something like, “I would turn here — but what do I know?” 🙂
8. Revelation 8:1-5. Having the time frame stated has always confused me because time in heaven isn’t like time for us. I find great comfort in knowing my prayers are before Him and precious to Him.
9. Comparing Revelation 8:4-5 & Exodus 19:18-19. In both, there is smoke billowing up, an earthquake and the sound of trumpets. I guess it points to there being nothing new in Revelation, but only a repackaging of what is elsewhere in Scripture. For sure, it says that Scripture is consistent with itself and therefore reliable in every way.
10. Campbell’s opening paragraph on the seventh seal.
A. The content is judgement.
B. Habakkuk 2:20 tells the people to be silent before God, and that is like the silence in heaven in the presence of judgement. From this I learn that when we are confronted by God in judgement, we are no longer full of defensiveness or excuses, but we fall silent knowing His rightness in His judgement. No one will talk back to God in that moment.
C. What else stood out? That the seventh seal is really the culmination of the sixth.
D. The common thread in Job, Habakkuk and Revelation is the response shown to judgement being silence. Since even heaven falls silent, we need to be like Job and despise ourselves, repenting in dust and ashes.
11. From Campbell, what do you learn about the meaning of:
A. Hour? This is sudden and unexpected judgement.
B. Half an hour? This refers back to parallel passages in Daniel.
C. The timing of judgement? This is a confirmation of what Jesus told us, as far as it being unexpected in our minds when it actually happens.
D. Application. I need to let the unknownness of the timing not lull me into complacency but rather spur me on to greater effort, realizing that it could happen now.
Great application, Mary.
8. Read Revelation 8:1-5 aloud and share anything that stands out to you.
Seven! Seventh seal, seven angels and seven trumpets. The silence was for a half hour-30 minutes (3-Trinity?) – totally may be mistaken.
That there was a lot of incense for the angel to fill the censor with to offer God because of our prayers – how beautiful an aroma to God. Then we see the angel filling the empty sensor with fire from the altar and hurling it down to earth. There is a reason as to why the angel hurls the fire down to earth right after emptying the censor with our prayers to God but I don’t understand yet. It is polar opposite.
9. Compare Revelation 8:4-5 with Exodus 19:18-19. What similarity do you see and what might this mean?
The Lord descended on Mt. Sinai in fire so it was covered with smoke and the smoke billowed up from it and the mountain trembled violently. This sounds like the smoke from the incense from our prayers the angel offered to God, and the earthquakes, thunder, lightening that occurred after the angel threw fire from the altar down on earth. OKAY, so I am starting to connect the dots..hmm but I still don’t connect it fully. Can’t wait to get to the next question but I have to get ready for work! I hope I can do this on my lunch break today.
Love your hunger.
I’m not sure what half an hour means — perhaps a short time — ???
6. And what purpose did He have for delivering the Israelites according to Exodus 14:4?
God will get glory; and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD.
In both Exodus and in Revelation we see God asking for His glory. In the shorter Westminister Cathechism, the answer to “What is the chief end of man” is: “Man’s chief end is to glorify God, [a] and to enjoy him forever.”
7. Why is it important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God? (Take time with this.) And, how are you doing this?
Good question! I feel inadequate to answer it. The purpose of our lives is not about us, our pleasure, comfort, power, even being well-thought-of. It is to make God’s glory our aim. Skeptics would say “why does God deserve glory” and “isn’t God being selfish himself, by demanding the glory”. At this point, I can only say honestly because God said so; and because, if I do, I will find a deeper and a truer happiness than I would by pursuing my own self-centered happiness. But that sounds like a self-centered reason to glorify God. However, I cannot seek to truly glorify God if I do it for self-centered reasons. I have to get out of self-seeking and forget about myself, immersing my focus on how much He deserves all the honor, the glory, the praise. This is truly very hard to do because I am naturally self-focused, bending inward toward my comfort, pleasure and so on. Even when it seems I am thinking of others it is often so that I will be well thought of or gain more status or power. I need to turn to deliberately daily, even moment by moment turn my thoughts Godward – seeking his wisdom, to love with his love, to obey his thoughts and ways. I do this poorly, stumbling frequently.
Oh I smiled at this post. I wonder if out of God’s great love for us, in understanding our fragility, that maybe it is okay to want to glorify God in part because we will have joy. Isn’t that in the 1st point of the Westminster Confession? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever?
What stands out to you from the above and why? The angels hold back their own praise so that the prayers of the saints can be heard by God. And the smoke of the incense with the prayers of the saints ascended before God from the angel’s hand. This whole lesson is so powerful to me. Being on the West Coast, I am always an HOUR 🙂 or few behind. It stands out to me that God loves us so and He knows and understands our pain. If we trust Him and His timing, we are more able to relax in His care. (easier said than done…) I am really seeing a great difference in the way I pray since we started this study. I am learning so much about Revelation, but I am learning to pray in Praise in every prayer. I have read all of your beautiful answers and the sweet humility you each have in your lives and prayer lives. What precious saints you all are! How I pray that I will glorify God in my prayer life and in my actions each day. I feel that as we glorify God in wonder and awe, He is pleased and we become more aware of His presence in our lives daily. I often see this very tiny hummingbird, sitting on the highest spot of an evergreen tree….the little twig he is standing on does not look strong, yet he is there most mornings…..I think of how I often feel like that hummingbird….so small and sitting on a fragile bough, yet God has me in the palm of His mighty hand daily.
When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you? Last week we had three major things happen that overwhelmed me. My husband’s insulin went bad and we didn’t know it immediately. This made him terribly ill. Our oldest daughter, who is already recovering from a major foot surgery, had a spot show up on a mammogram, and our middle daughter in Rhode Island was bit by a dog and ended up in the hospital. I felt so overwhelmed and alone. I realize daily that life is very fragile. I realized, once again, how quickly and dramatically life can change. I knew that God was aware. I felt paralyzed, but I prayed and I was thanking God and glorifying Him for my husband, our children, grandchildren and our lives. I even listened to the Tim Keller video early…and that helped me. Grateful to God that He had us all in His hand. Things are better this week and how I praise God for His faithfulness. My prayers are always answered in ways I cannot imagine, but better than I can imagine. He is God. He is awesome. We know we will have to wait for heaven to see some prayers answered. How blessed we are to live in a country where we have the freedom to have this study. Praise Him.
Oh Patti — sooooo much. You are that little hummingbird on a tiny bough, but God has you. And you are such a gift here.
Thank you sweet friends, for your prayers. God has heard our prayers. He always answers in such beautiful and unexpected ways. My husband is doing much better and we are both so grateful that the Lord brought the “insulin” issues to our attention. God is always good and both of our daughters are growing closer to the Lord. This is a huge answer to prayer in our lives. I love the prayer journal and I have done that in the past….I need to start it again.
I pray that I will let go of doubts and fears, and grumpy thoughts….and pursue Holiness. I love that we need to pursue it! Praising our Heavenly Father for being with each of us today.
Patti, I’m just getting started this week and so saw your post! I’m so sorry you had all of this happen to you and your family, and that you felt so overwhelmed and alone. I’m thankful to hear everyone is doing better….that your daughters are drawing closer to God. Prayers for you and your family!
oh Patti–what an emotional and difficult week you had. I am so sorry. I love this: “I feel that as we glorify God in wonder and awe, He is pleased and we become more aware of His presence in our lives daily. ”
Praying now for all-Lord would You restore Patti’s husband’s health, thank You for allowing them to find out the insulin was bad. We also for Your healing protection over her daughters, and please give Patti Your peace. In Your Name we ask
Patti, me, too. I feel that my prayer life has more of a rhythm day by day. and I know it is because of our study here. Praying while walking, when doing dishes, sweeping the floor, even when in pain, and asking God to help me because I know He sees me.
Lord, be with Patti, and please work out your will in her husband’s life, the insulin incident; her 2 daughters facing health challenges. You are awesome to answer in ways that we cannot imagine or better than we can imagine as Patti says here. You are worthy to be praised!
Patti, I am just seeing this as I am reading through some of the posts. I’m sorry I missed it earlier and I hope your family is doing better now. Life is hard and changing minute by minute. It is so important to keep God our “center.” He is here with us. He does love us, and He will help us. I am speaking to myself as much as you 😉. Thank you for being here. You are a kind soul.
3. Read Exodus 3:7-10 and summarize God’s main message to Moses.
God explains to Moses that He has seen the suffering of His people and wants to help them out of their persecution. He wants to rescue them and needs Moses’ help to lead them to a better life in the “Land of Milk and Honey.”
4. In Exodus 7:5, what was God’s main purpose for the plagues?
To make the Egyptians know who He was/is.
5. What other purposes did God have for the plagues according to Exodus 10:1-2?
He also wanted Moses to be able to pass the events to his children and their children.
6. And what purpose did He have for delivering the Israelites according to Exodus 14:4?
He wanted the Egyptians to know His glory.
10. Read Dr. Campbell’s opening paragraph under the seventh seal and answer:
A. What is the content of the seventh seal? Divine judgement
B. God told the prophet Habakkuk He was going to execute judgment both on Israel and then on the nations who He used to refine them. What does Habakkuk tell the people in Habakkuk 2:20 and how is this similar to Revelation 8:1? What do you learn from this? The Lord is in His Temple, let the whole earth be silent before Him. That both are regarding judgment and silence.
C. What else stands out to you from this paragraph by Campbell? God has roused himself from His holy dwelling (to bring out of inactivity to swift action?). God will bring distress on all mankind..”In the fire of His Jealousy all the earth will be consumed.” He will make a full and sudden end to the inhabitants of the earth.
In the fire of His jealousy stood out. Man’s natural bend is to idolatry and whoa are we! It is like having an affair-but worse-ongoing over and over. I can’t imagine God’s patience, let along His furious jealousy-yet His timeline is fluid-not like ours. When I compare that to us, oh my..we are so finite compared to Him and unable to withhold that kind of response for very long.
This makes me want to be so careful of idolatry in my life, and get better at repenting faster-not because He will punish me because I am sealed and safe, but because of how deeply it hurts and grieves Him. 🙁
D. I see a common thread with Job, Habakkuk, and here again in Revelation with the response to the judgment of God being silence. Why, do you think? I’m not sure but it is because of the immensity-His Holiness- and I think of Isaiah when He said “woe to me! I am ruined, for I have unclean lips.”
You have a tender heart, Rebecca, and certainly have an appreciation for how God feels. I’d change the word punish to discipline in your answer to C, just to remember that Jesus paid for all of our punishment.
Dee, yes you are right! He disciplines and doesn’t punish.
I think punishment is our default mode!
12. What does John see? The seven angels who stand before the throne being given trumpets. Another angel comes with a gold censor to the altar to offer prayers and incense. When that is done, he takes coals from the altar and hurls it to the earth. Not sure how using the censor for both is significant…
13. A. Campbell says the incense represents God hearing and accepting the prayers, like in Lev 16. Isn’t it in one of John’s epistles that he says that if we know that God hears us, then we know that we have what we’ve asked for?
B. Campbell thinks these prayers are from the saints under the throne. It doesn’t say ‘under’ though, so I don’t see how he can be so sure on it.
C. Scriptural support for the four judgements being simultaneous and not chronological. Just like the four gospels are covering the same time frame but telling it from their own perspective and slant. There is a movie titled Vantage Point that keeps bringing you to the beginning of an event and then following through from each of 6-8 main characters. You are seeing the same event every time, but it looks very different. Confusing at first, but each time you get more of the complete story.
D. Do you agree or disagree? I kind of get what Campbell is saying, but at the same time it is really hard to throw away everything I’ve ever been taught on this subject. Sometimes it starts to seem plausible, and then I can’t see how the end will come.
14. The next paragraph’s main point. That what we might call special effects are the same at the end of each set of judgements, showing that it is only one event, and is a mirror of Exodus 19.
15. In the next paragraph, find the comfort for believers, and anything else that stands out.
Whatever suffering has come because of their stand for Jesus, their eternal reward is far more lasting and precious and is waiting for them. I heard once of a young man severely crippled from birth who had a vibrant attitude. Someone asked him why he wasn’t angry with God over his suffering. He replied, “Its OK. God has all eternity to make it up to me.”
Mary — I think you might find this one page article from Ligonier helpful. It goes through the 5 views simply but concludes there is some value in each and encourages preachers to preach expositionally. Though I have come to be persuaded by this view, I want to hold it loosely, for Revelation is so mysterius.
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/interpreting-revelation/
Dee, thanks so much for the article. That was very helpful. I was feeling that Campbell was in a way hitting me over the head and saying, do you get it yet? To hear that there are weaknesses in his view makes me sigh in relief. I think at this point I’d describe myself as an eclectic. I am totally fine with ambiguity in explaining passages. God has always been beyond my understanding and I’m comfortable with trusting Him with the right interpretation.
Thanks, Mary!
8. Read Revelation 8:1-5 aloud and share anything that stands out to you.
The silence of Heaven… the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne… rose before God from the hand of the angel.
9. Compare Revelation 8:4-5 with Exodus 19:18-19. What similarity do you see and what might this mean?
Similarities: the smoke, thunder, trembling of the earth. The rumbling in Exodus are said to be because the Lord had descended on it, so maybe the prayers of the saints brings His presence in Revelation?
10. Read Dr. Campbell’s opening paragraph under the seventh seal and answer:
A. What is the content of the seventh seal?
Divine judgment.
B. God told the prophet Habakkuk He was going to execute judgment both on Israel and then on the nations who He used to refine them. What does Habakkuk tell the people in Habakkuk 2:20 and how is this similar to Revelation 8:1? What do you learn from this?
Hab. 2:20-the Lord is in His holy temple, let all the earth keep silence before Him. Rev. 8:1-when the seal was opened, there was silence.
C. What else stands out to you from this paragraph by Campbell?
The number of times we are told to be silent before the Lord, reminds me of His holiness. Zech. 2:13 “Be silent, all flesh, before the Lord…” Zeph. 1:7 “Be silent before the Lord”
D. I see a common thread with Job, Habakkuk, and here again in Revelation with the response to the judgment of God being silence. Why, do you think?
God is Holy. He is perfectly just. We are sinful. We have no argument before Him.
11. Read Campbell’s second paragraph and share what you learn about the meaning of:
A. “Hour”-the sudden nature of God’s judgment
B. “Half an hour”– (symbolic, not literal) the judgment will be sudden and unanticipated.
C. The timing of judgment-sudden, unexpected
D. What application do you see for yourself in the above?
Be silent. Recognize I have no place to defend or argue, doubt or fear. I have no words before Him but thanksgiving for His mercy.
12. Read Revelation 8:2-4 again. What does John see?
7 angels with 7 trumpets. Another angel with a golden censer, and incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne…the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rising before God from the hand of the angel.
Clear interpretation of half an hour!
Dee, like Laura, I am so grateful for only five verses this week. The rest of my life has had a lot of demands, and I’d look at the homework and despair. So I contented myself with just reading everyone else. It has been nice to dive in this week, even if I have needed to power through.
16. Sermon by DeYoung.
We long in our lives to see ourselves making a difference, being part of the solution. Revelation shows us how we can do that.
Rev 8:1 seems like we were brought to the edge of the climax, and then we get silence. While it doesn’t seem to fit, it is meant to give a deep breath in the short timeframe left before judgement really comes. This silence is for effect. While it is what John saw, it doesn’t mean there will be literal silence in heaven. God brings the vision to John like this to get us to the edge of our chairs in anticipation. We know it is the end because of the phrase, ‘thunder, rumblings, flash of lightening, and earthquake’. This is a theophany, like in Exodus 19, showing God’s presence with the people. Same with Rev 4:5, so the one in Rev 8 is also showing God coming.
The half hour silence is a pause before the final judgement, setting you up for the crescendo. Just like babies start their loudest wait with a silent scream. It is the calm before the storm. We wait in anticipation, but that isn’t strong enough to describe the scene. It is more like speechless in wonder. The incense is our prayers. On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest had to go behind a cloud of incense as a protection from the holiness of God. In the same way, our prayers protect us. They also bring in the final judgement in response to the pleas of believers for justice.
The end of injustice shows us two truths. One is that God hears our prayers with pleasure. The second is that prayer makes a difference in His sovereign response.
So will you pray and use your influence? Don’t miss out on the difference prayer can make both in your life, and in the world. Make prayer a priority. This is where change comes from for ourselves and for the world.
Tim and Kathy Keller, It all ends in Praise, on Psalm 150.
Where should we pray? Everywhere. What should we pray for? Everything. Who should we pray for? Everyone. How should we pray? In every way. This psalm is at the end of the book, which has had a lot of lament. But when we pray long enough, we end up in praise. Praise moves us to be more like Him. It may take years, decades even, to see the results of our prayers. But that is OK. The journey is worth it.
Mary, I don’t want you to despair when you look at the homework! Do what you can and be gentle with yourself.
Mary, I always love your perspective! Love your thoughts on the DeYoung sermon and on Tim and Kathy Keller.
Monday: Scriptural Context
There are strong parallels, as we will see as we continue this study, between the plagues of Egypt and the judgments of Revelation. There are other parallels too, which will be helpful to keep in mind.
1. Read Exodus 3:7-10 and summarize God’s main message to Moses.
God had seen the misery of His people and He is concerned about their suffering and He will come and rescue them from Egypt and sent Moses to Pharaoh.
2. In Exodus 7:6 what was God’s main purpose for the plagues?
His judgment
3. What other purposes did God have for the plagues according to Exodus 10:1-2?
So that the Israelites can tell their children and grandchildren how He dealt harshly with the Egyptians.
4. And what purpose did He have for delivering the Israelites according to Exodus 14:4?
He will gain glory for Himself and the Egyptians will know that He is the Lord.
In both Exodus and in Revelation we see God asking for His glory. In the shorter Westminister Cathechism, the answer to “What is the chief end of man” is: “Man’s chief end is to glorify God, [a] and to enjoy him forever.”
7. Why is it important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God? (Take time with this.) And, how are you doing this?
I think glorifying God is the only thing that helps everything in this world makes sense to me. No other goal is attainable or possible because nothing is made possible without Jesus. So why pursue something that never satisfies? Why not pursue One who satisfies always?
Everything is enjoyable in Christ; even the smallest source of joy like a cold drink of water or the beauty of a blade of grass can be a source of joy when seen through His eyes.
I have started being more mindful (like what our Dawn says here), thanking God for little things and big things. And I expectantly look for Him in and for the unexpected. He is so good at surprises!
7. Why is it important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God? (Take time with this.) And, how are you doing this?
I think it is important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God because He made us and He loves us. He wants us to know Him well because it is He who offers us peace in our lives. If we glorify Him, we know this peace. It’s the C.S. Lewis quote I have on my fridge:
“Look for yourself and you will find loneliness and despair. Look for Christ and you will find Him and everything else.”
If I don’t glorify Him, then who will I glorify? Myself (money, fame, success)? What does that get me? I don’t mean this in a, “well, I better glorify God or I won’t get what I want” way, or, an, “I don’t have anything better going on so I better glorify God” way either. I just mean that we will put our efforts, our focus, somewhere.
I have been on the precipice of this for a while now. Almost driving in, but not fully committed. I do believe complete joy will be there for me when I make the plunge! Oh Lord, please help me glorify You only in my life. Amen.
8. Read Revelation 8:1-5 aloud and share anything that stands out to you.
I laughed out loud on “…about a half an hour.” Haha, it’s like this was written today for us, in our time.
Love that the prayers are lifted in incense. It makes such ac good imagery for me!
9. Compare Revelation 8:4-5 with Exodus 19:18-19. What similarity do you see and what might this mean?
There is smoke (incense) that rises, trumpets sounded (in Exodus) and present (its coming in Rev) and thunder. This is important. God is here, it is a Holy place.
10. Read Dr. Campbell’s opening paragraph under the seventh seal and answer:
A. What is the content of the seventh seal?
The seventh seal is divine judgment.
B. God told the prophet Habakkuk He was going to execute judgment both on Israel and then on the nations who He used to refine them. What does Habakkuk tell the people in Habakkuk 2:20 and how is this similar to Revelation 8:1? What do you learn from this?
The Lord is in His Holy temple and all souls keep quiet before Him. There is silence in both scriptures. God will judge; He commands our attention.
C. What else stands out to you from this paragraph by Campbell?
He is so sure of himself when he states that the premillennial view is “mistaken.” That is funny to me! He uses the OT (Habb and Zeph) to back up his ideas of this scripture however, quite convincingly. He points out that the people fumbled and God followed with a judgment.
D. I see a common thread with Job, Habakkuk, and here again in Revelation with the response to the judgment of God being silence. Why, do you think?
I don’t recall the silence in Job? I searched and found where silence is mentioned in Job, however I didn’t see that it was God judging 🤷🏻♀️.
I guess if I were there, I would want to make sure I could hear all that God had to say, so I would be quiet and listen.
10. Read Campbell’s second paragraph and share what you learn about the meaning of:
A. “Hour”
A certain, sudden time of God’s judgment.
B. “Half an hour”
Sudden and unanticipated.
C. The timing of judgment
It’s an hour that is unexpected.
D. What application do you see for yourself in the above?
Well, there are times when I am hyper-focused on other things (work, family, myself). I am not prepared for His coming. It would blind-side me I am fairly sure. I need to be like the bridesmaids who kept their lamps “trimmed and burning.”
Yes, he is sure of himself. I think he is quite convincing, but indeed we need to hold this all loosely and get the main ideas. This was a good article:
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/interpreting-revelation/
Thanks Dee! I appreciate this information. I need to understand the different views.
11. Read Campbell’s second paragraph and share what you learn about the meaning of:
A. “Hour” The sudden nature of God’s judgment
B. “Half an hour” Sudden and unanticipated
C. The timing of judgment It will come when least expected
D. What application do you see for yourself in the above? To be ready. I need to keep my lamp lit (Matthew 25). To have His word hidden in my heart from spending time with Him, and listening to Him so that I might stand sturdy against temptations. Though I am sealed and protected from compromising or denying Him, but if I allow myself to become luke warm via my natural bend to idolatry what will it be like then?
13. Read Dr. Campbell’s third paragraph beginning with “John sees further detail.”
A. What does the incense represent according to Campbell and what is his support?
Incense represents God hearing our prayer (Lev. 16:12-13). The incense given by God to the angel represents the prayers of the dead saints standing under the altar.
B. Why does he think these are the prayers of the deceased saints?
Rev. 6:11 says they were to wait until their fellow servants and brothers are complete. The incense rising means their petitions have now been heard.
C. What scriptural support does Campbell offer for these various judgments being parallel rather than consecutive chronological judgments?
Each set of judgments ends with a picture of the last judgment at Christ’s return, suggesting they are parallel descriptions of the same events (like the Gospels are parallel descriptions of the same events).
14. Read the following paragraph by Campbell and share his main point.
The unbelieving world will fall under God’s judgment but those who are sealed will be saved. Christians will be spiritually protected, completely delivered, though we may (will) suffer in other ways.
15. Read the rest of the section and find the comfort for believers and anything else that stands out.
We can take comfort that whatever our measure of suffering and persecution for the sake of Christ, we have an eternal reward far more precious and a lasting that awaits. We receive this reward at death as we enter God’s presence, and ultimately at Christ’s return.
Lizzy, I think your notes are longer than the Kellers’ talk!
🙂
🙂
sorry about that, I should have edited better, just short on time
Sorry to post so much at once. I’m out the next few days so trying to finish. I loved listening to Tim & Kathy. Here are my notes:
Tim & Kathy on Psalm 150
The last Psalm—tells us about Praise.
Where should God be praised? Everywhere- praise him in his sanctuary, praise him in his mighty heavens
Why should we praise Him? For everything-for his acts of power, His surpassing greatness,
don’t just praise Him for what He’s done, praise Him for who He is.
Where should we praise Him? Everywhere
why should we praise Him? for everything
how should we praise Him? in every way, praise him with trumpet , harp, lyre , cymbals
Who should praise Him? Everyone- let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
This is the last of all the Psalms. Reading through the Psalms there’s grief, there’s anger problems; one third of the Psalms are lamentations. At least one third of the psalms are just filled with agony and unhappiness and yet at the very end, the last five Psalms, are praise Psalms.
All prayer in the end, ends in praise. Confess your sins, it ends eventually, in spite of the sorrow, it ends in the joy of forgiveness. You lament and you cry out to God, it will end in the joy of resting more in Him, and of course, praise. The Bible says the more we see Him as He is, the more we become like Him.
2 Corinthians 3 says were transformed from one degree of splendor to the next as we gaze on His beauty, as we contemplate Him. 1 John 1:3 one says that when we see Him we’ll be like Him, when we see Him as He is. The more we praise Him, the more we become like Him. The more we confess, the more we move toward praise, eventually the more we lament, the more we move toward praise. **If you stay with God, and if you process everything in prayer, everything it always ends in praise.
Quote from Eugene Peterson: “Psalm 150 does not stand alone for more hallelujah. Psalms are inserted in front of it so that it becomes the fifth of five Psalms that conclude the Psalter. These five hallelujah psalms are extraordinarily robust. This means no matter how much we suffer, no matter how much our doubts, no matter how angry we get, no matter how many times we have asked in desperation ‘how long O Lord’-prayer always develops finally into praise. Everything finds its way to the doorstep of praise. This is not to say that other prayers are inferior to praise, only that all prayer pursued far enough becomes praise. Don’t rush it. It can take years, decades even, before certain prayers arrived at the hallelujahs at Psalm 146 to 150. Not every prayer is capped off with praise. In fact most prayers of the Psalter do not cap off with praise, but prayer is always reaching toward praise and will finally arrive there. So our lives will be filled out in goodness. Earth and heaven eventually meet in an extraordinary conjunction, clashing cymbals announced the glory, blessing amen hallelujah.”
Cathy suggests to keep a prayer journal-write down the prayer and the date you prayed it and then you have another column which might be empty for a really long time where you record the date and the answer that God finally gave. Then you can you can keep track of the things that God has answered so that you don’t lose the praise over the long span of time that it might take.
Tim adds that sometimes the prayers are answered differently than we ask, and in looking back, sometimes we can say hallelujah because it actually did happen, but in many many other cases we can say hallelujah because it doesn’t seem as important as it used to- the thing we wanted was actually not all that wise or necessary even though at the time we thought it was absolutely necessary. We can says Hallelujah to His wisdom that He’s wiser. In many many cases we can look back and say hallelujah because even though God never gave it, we can see good things that happen in my life because of it. It is important to keep track of prayers so that you can see God’s wisdom and praise Him for it either way.
Lizzy,
I love all of this! Thank you so much for all of the inspiration!! Praise is so Powerful!
Lizzy, thanks for your thorough notes. So many things stood out to me while listening and doing chores at home. I need to go back to my prayer journal. No excuses such as I am too busy, etc. Listening to Tim and Kathy was very encouraging in this regard. All prayer in the end, ends in praise. Powerful!
12. Read Revelation 8:2-4 again. What does John see?
He saw the seven angels, who were given trumpets, standing before God.
He saw another angel with a gold incense burner who stood at the gold altar. A “great amount of incense” was given to him to mix with the prayers of the saints, to use as an offering. The smoke of the incense ascended to God.
Tuesday: The Seventh Seal
1. Read Revelation 8:1-5 aloud and share anything that stands out to you.
That there was silence for half an hour after the seventh seal was opened. I wonder why half an hour?
2. Compare Revelation 8:4-5 with Exodus 19:18-19. What similarity do you see and what might this mean?
There was fire that came to earth; God descended from Mount Sinai in fire
There were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning; the mountains trembled
Meaning: our prayers are powerful and God will “come” down to speak to us? Am not sure? Our prayers affect what’s going on earth?
10. Read Dr. Campbell’s opening paragraph under the seventh seal and answer:
A. What is the content of the seventh seal?
God’s divine judgment
B. God told the prophet Habakkuk He was going to execute judgment both on Israel and then on the nations who He used to refine them. What does Habakkuk tell the people in Habakkuk 2:20 and how is this similar to Revelation 8:1? What do you learn from this?
The Lord is in His holy temple; let all the earth keep silence before Him. There was silence after the seventh seal was opened. Silence means the day of the Lord is near and a day of wrath is coming.
My own thoughts: This makes me think of the ominous silence before a tornado hits. It is a forewarning. In movies, silence is preparatory for something big about to happen. So be watchful.
C. What else stands out to you from this paragraph by Campbell?
D. I see a common thread with Job, Habakkuk, and here again in Revelation with the response to the judgment of God being silent. Why, do you think?
God’s judgment is consistent throughout history?
11. Read Campbell’s second paragraph and share what you learn about the meaning of:
A. “Hour” sudden nature of God’s judgment
B. “Half an hour” judgment
C. The timing of judgment will be sudden and unanticipated
D. What application do you see for yourself in the above?
I need to be ready because I do not know when the Son of Man will come back and judge the earth.
What a word picture — the ominous silence before a tornado hits!
Wednesday: The Different Views
In the Historist and Futurist views, the belief is that the four judgments occur chronologically, one after another, at the end of time. In the Idealist view, these various judgments (horses, seals, trumpets, bowls) are like the four different perspectives of the gospels which occurred at the same time. As you know, Dr. Campbell takes the Idealist view and believes these judgments all occur simultaneously from the ascent of Christ to His return, though heightening in intensity at the very end. This is not a matter of salvation, and we must give grace and also pray to discern the truth.
12. Read Revelation 8:2-4 again. What does John see?
Seven angels who were given 7 trumpets ( to announce something?)
Another angel with a golden censer and incense with the prayer of all God’s people
And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.
13. Read Dr. Campbell’s third paragraph beginning with “John sees further detail.”
A. What does the incense represent according to Campbell and what is his support?
The incense is often associated with God’s hearing prayer in the OT. In Leviticus 16, priests are depicted as offering incense. And in 7:15-17 Christians have been portrayed as priests and as the fulfillment of the Levitical priesthood.
The incense given by God to the angel represents the prayers of the deceased saints under the altar.
B. Why does he think these are the prayers of the deceased saints?
Because it says in 6:11 these saints are to wait until “the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete”.
C. What scriptural support does Campbell offer for these various judgments being parallel rather than consecutive chronological judgments?
Each set of judgments conclude with the depiction of the last judgment at the return of Christ much like the Gospels are parallel descriptions of the ministry of Christ. And in Chapter 20 later, the same church age is described figuratively as a long period of time, a millennium at the conclusion of which comes yet another parallel description of the last judgment at Christ’s return.
D. Do you agree or disagree and why?
I agree, although my mind is spinning here (so many literary expressions my Filipino grasp of the English word has been extremely challenged, which I love BTW), this just makes sense to me and I trust God for progressive revelation to me personally. But whatever is the right view, I am leaving it up to God. And I reserve the right to change my mind mid-air (as Dee said here before?)!
14. Read the following paragraph by Campbell and share his main point.
Believers will be sealed by a mark on their forehead (they will be identifiable) until they are completely delivered.
My thoughts: Campbell mentioned an initial historical fulfillment in the final destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. There was no mention of a literal mark on the forehead of those who were saved and sealed. So I believe the mark on the forehead is spiritual and speaks of our protection although we might suffer.
15. Read the rest of the section and find the comfort for believers and anything else that stands out. Whatever measure of suffering we have here on earth on account of our testimony to Christ, an eternal reward far more precious lasting, and precious than this suffering awaits us.
Thoughts: We will receive our reward initially on our death and translation into God’s presence (7:9-17) and ultimately at Christ’s return as we enter the new creation portrayed in chapters 21-22. WOW-I can look at death initially as a door to my reward! Oh, joy, joy! This really helps me see my death and the death of my fellow Christians as a gift and gives me the urgency to be sharing my faith with those who are not.
Isaiah 25:8 he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth. The Lord has spoken.
Isaiah 26:19 But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise—let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy—your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.
Hosea 13:14 “I will deliver this people from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death. Where, O death, are your plagues? Where, O grave, is your destruction?
I Corinthians 15:54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
Some more thoughts: I am eager to get done with this study to be able to see the “synopsis” and to have a better understanding of the different views. Although it would be easier for me to just search other people’s thoughts on these views, I want to be patient and study along on this blog and reap the benefits of “rightly dividing the Word of Truth 2 Timothy 2:15 I can be so impatient at times.
As I was re-reading Chapter 7:9-17, John asked the angel who the multitudes (washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb) are and the angel replied, they are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation. To me, this means that the tribulation is throughout the church age and not a single event or else what happened to the ones in the OT and to us? I hope I am making sense here!
Oh, Bing! I was so happy to see I am not the only one whose mind is spinning! I love the other reference verses you shared! Thank you so much!
I am loving this study and it is making me think a lot and analyze…and pray with joy, pray for the persecuted, pray for each of us as we study this, and pray with Praise!
12. Read Revelation 8:2-4 again. What does John see? “And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.” In my Bible references: “In OT times the trumpet served to announce important events and give signals in time of war. The seven trumpets of Rev 8-9; 11:15-19 announce a series of plagues more severe than the seals but not as completely devastating as the bowls.”
13. Read Dr. Campbell’s third paragraph beginning with “John sees further detail.”
A. What does the incense represent according to Campbell and what is his support? According to Campbell, incense is often associated with God’s hearing prayer in the Old Testament. In Lev. 16:12-13, the priests are depicted as offering incense. In Rev 7:15-17, Christians have been portrayed as priests and as the fulfillment of the Levitical priesthood. Their prayers, not animal sacrifices, are offered with incense before God. The altar is the same altar as described in 6:9. The incense given by God to the angel represents the prayers of the deceased saints standing under that altar (6:10).The fact of the incense going up indicates that their petitions have now been received by God.
B. Why does he think these are the prayers of the deceased saints? I am not sure; possibly because of Rev 6:10-11: “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they ad been, would be completed also.”
C. What scriptural support does Campbell offer for these various judgments being parallel rather than consecutive chronological judgments? I found this confusing, as Revelation 6:11 seems to imply the judgments will not start “until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, could be completed also.” “Each set of judgments concludes with a depiction of the last judgment at the Return of Christ.” I think this is Campbell’s support for his view.
D. Do you agree or disagree and why? God’s wisdom is so infinite and my mind is so finite, I am not sure how to put this section together in my head and heart. I got a bit nervous when Campbell stated “This proves they are parallel descriptions of the same events, much like the four Gospels are parallel descriptions of the ministry of Christ.” I accept God’s word on faith. I feel unsettled when the word prove is used….I am more comfortable when a human says: “This is the way I see it”. I am not sure how I feel about this particular statement, though he may be correct in his assessments.
14. Read the following paragraph by Campbell and share his main point. These words, marking the end of the seal judgments, are almost identical to the descriptions of the last judgment in 11:19 (the end of the trumpet judgments) and 16:8 the end of the bowl judgments). The same angel, with “authority over fire” reappears in the description of the last judgment in 14:18-19. He feels that all four passages describe the same event….At the end of the paragraph, Campbell compares this passage to the final element of Ezekiel’s vision as the angel throw the fire from the altar on the earth.
15. Read the rest of the section and find the comfort for believers and anything else that stands out. John sees this prophetic word as ultimately fulfilled in the sealing of Christians on their foreheads. Rev 7:3. Unbelievers will fall under judgment throughout the church age, but Christians will be spiritually protected, even though in other ways they may suffer. The unbelieving world will fall under total judgment at the end of of history, and Christians will be completely delivered. “Christians throughout the ages can take comfort that, whatever their measure of suffering has been on account of their testimony to Christ, an eternal reward far more precious and lasting than that suffering awaits them.”
I am trusting in God’s plan whatever it is! HE REIGNS!
Like Laura, you saw how confident he is. That’s why I gave Laura and Mary that article from Ligonier. I think we have to be humble as there are godly men from various perspectives and it is mysterious. But there is so much that is applicable that doesn’t matter so much about the perspective, unless you think everything happened in the past or this is only about very end times, and I don’t think either of those seems likely.
It’s so good to have you here Patti.
Oh, I love that article from Ligonier. I joined their site. Oh, we have to be humble for sure! These godly men have studied so well and I love their various perspectives. I printed off the article to read and re-read. All of their thoughts are very valid. It is mysterious too and we each have a unique perspective depending on our experiences. Thank you for all that you have done to create this wonderful study, Dee. It has truly given me so many new insights into prayer and Revelation. I love that all prayer ends with Praise.
Patti, even though we have never met, I get so excited when I see you have posted. You are so affirming and yet discerning. Like all the women here, you have become precious to me!
Thank you, Mary. And you ladies have all become precious to me! We are all so blessed that Dee is doing this amazing study!
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I love the thought of a silent pause in heaven! And it is so that God can hear the prayers of His saints. It is a picture of His attentiveness and concern.
2. When you think about answered prayers in your life, what does it teach you?
Sometimes I am like Dee, in that I still have some skepticism or think, “Wow – I can’t believe God really answered this prayer!” It teaches me that He does listen and hear. But I want to be cautious, because if my prayers don’t get answered the way I think they should, it doesn’t mean that God doesn’t care. I’ve read and heard a lot of testimonies about really hard trials, and then there’s a silver lining on the clouds at the end of the story. But it doesn’t always happen that way. Usually, the person telling the story will very much praise God because everything turned out okay in the end. Then I wonder, but what if it didn’t? Then what would you say?
3. Read Exodus 3:7-10 and summarize God’s main message to Moses.
God has heard the cries of his people in their misery as they are slaves to the Egyptians, and He is concerned. He has come down to do something about it. He is going to use Moses to deliver His people.
4. In Exodus 7:5, what was God’s main purpose for the plagues?
That the Egyptians would know that God is Lord….the One, True God, when they see how He judges them (the Egyptians) yet protects His people, the Israelites.
5. What other purposes did God have for the plagues according to Exodus 10:1-2?
The plagues served to harden the heart of Pharaoh and his officials. These miraculous signs of God were also done to establish a history among God’s people, so that they would be told to their children and grandchildren, and so that everyone would know that God is the Lord.
6. And what purpose did He have for delivering the Israelites according to Exodus 14:4?
To gain glory for Himself through the defeat of Pharaoh and all his army, and so that all the Egyptians would know that He is the Lord.
Love your opening reflections, Susan, and how they go along with what Kathy and Tim shared — how looking back, they are glad some prayers were not answered the way they wanted, but they surely didn’t feel that way at the time.
13. Read Dr. Campbell’s third paragraph beginning with “John sees further detail.”
A. What does the incense represent according to Campbell and what is his support?
God hearing prayer. Lev. 16: 12-13
B. Why does he think these are the prayers of the deceased saints?
The response they were given is to wait until the number of their fellow servants and brothers is complete.
C. What scriptural support does Campbell offer for these various judgments being parallel rather than consecutive chronological judgments?
Each set of judgments concludes with a depiction of the last judgment at the return of Christ. This proves they are parallel descriptions of the same events, like the 4 Gospels are a parallel ministry of Christ.
D. Do you agree or disagree and why? I’m still wrapping my mind around it as I was taught future so it is new.
14. Read the following paragraph by Campbell and share his main point. That unbelievers will fall under God’s punishment but Christians will be sealed and though may feel some pain, will be delivered from God’s judgment.
15. Read the rest of the section and find the comfort for believers and anything else that stands out. Whatever measures of suffering on account of their testimony of Christ, an eternal reward more precious and longer lasting than suffering awaits. We’ll receive this reward initially at our death and then ultimately at Christ’s return as we enter the new creation. This is a GREAT comfort to me. Helps me to remember while suffering (on account of my testimony of Christ).
13. Read Dr. Campbell’s third paragraph beginning with “John sees further detail.”
A. What does the incense represent according to Campbell and what is his support?
The incense represents the prayers of the deceased saints who are under the altar, protected. He reminds us that incense is associated with the Levitical priests in the OT. The priests offered up prayers to God. In Rev 7:15-17 Christians are portrayed as priests.
B. Why does he think these are the prayers of the deceased saints?
The altar is the same altar as in chapter 6.
C. What scriptural support does Campbell offer for these various judgments being parallel rather than consecutive chronological judgments?
He says each of the judgments concludes with the final return of Christ.
D. Do you agree or disagree and why?
I guess I agree because of the answer above? If they all end with the return of Christ then they would all be going on at the same time. But, I need to go back and see where they all end that way. Confused a bit.
You’ll see it if you go back!
14. Read the following paragraph by Campbell and share his main point.
Ezekiel prophesied the very events that take place in Revelation. God’s people are marked on their heads for safety. Jerusalem will be under God’s judgment, however the sealed people will be saved. Christians will go through suffering but be spiritually protected. Unbelievers will be judged. Christians will be ultimately saved. The last bit of Ezekiel’s prophecy is the burning coals are thrown over the city (as the fire is over the altar).
15. Read the rest of the section and find the comfort for believers and anything else that stands out.
Although Christians have suffered for their faith, their eternal reward is more precious and lasting. They will receive it upon their death, and with their entrance into God’s presence. They will receive it also, when Christ returns.
I thought the sermon very good. My favorite quote was from Martin Lloyd-Jones: “A Christian is someone whose mouth is stopped.” What did you all think of that?
Dee, I listened to Tim and Kathy’s devotional, but plan to listen to Kevin DeYoung on the way home from work today. I’ll try to remember to listen closely to this quote.
I admire how you have kept up all these years, despite the huge demands on your life, Rebecca.
Dee, Thank you for your faithfulness to God and as a result to us here on the blog. You are a gift God has given to us and who He moves through to help us, and I’ve seen how He moves through my sisters here as well to help me see.
I don’t have much support spiritually in my home and can’t get myself to attend the churches around here as most have unintentionally left their first love to make ministry and other things (including social justice which I think is good but shouldn’t be primary) their core-it’s a subtle fade to luke warm. I am vulnerable too! So in this rough season in my life I am surrounding myself with believers I’ve known for over 30 years who I love and need. Even though I am okay with our differences (I am more reformed in my ideology now), it is His love in us that binds us and glorify’s Him. We go deep and the churches I’ve been to in my county-including women’s ministry-tend to not want to go deep. Like we do here!
Rebecca, I love what you wrote and I so agree with you about Dee’s faithfulness to God and to us here on the blog. It is a huge gift and support. I don’t know where you live, but many of the churches here are also lukewarm. I am so thankful that our church is on fire for Jesus. He is the center. We are in a part of the country that seems to be going the wrong direction, so I am very grateful for strong Christian friends and some strong Christ centered churches. I love that this study goes deep. I pray that God will strengthen you in this rough season. I love your statement that it is His love that binds us and glorifies Him!
Tuesday
8. Read Revelation 8:1-5 aloud and share anything that stands out to you.
What started as silence turned into busy ministry by the angels.
9. Compare Revelation 8:4-5 with Exodus 19:18-19. What similarity do you see and what might this mean?
The smoke of the incense mixed with prayers of Gods saints ascended to God from the altar where the angel had poured them out. Angel filled incense burner with fire, threw it down upon the earth…Thunder, lightening and earthquake. Rev.
Mt Sinai covered with smoke because God ascended on it in the form of fire. Smoke billowed in the sky, mountain shook violently, As blast of rams horn grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God thundered His reply. Exodus
The fire, smoke, mountain shook/earthquake and thunder. The presence of God and how He responds.
10. Read Dr. Campbell’s opening paragraph under the seventh seal and answer:
A. What is the content of the seventh seal? Divine judgement.
B. God told the prophet Habakkuk He was going to execute judgment both on Israel and then on the nations who He used to refine them. What does Habakkuk tell the people in Habakkuk 2:20 and how is this similar to Revelation 8:1? What do you learn from this? ”The Lord is in His holy temple; let all the earth keep silence before Him.” It’s similar in that there is silence. That God is silent before He judges.
C. What else stands out to you from this paragraph by Campbell? That there is content in the 7th seal.
D. I see a common thread with Job, Habakkuk, and here again in Revelation with the response to the judgment of God being silence. Why, do you think? I don’t see a passage for Job , but definitely see the thread between Habakkuk and Revelation. I’m not sure. Is God only silent before the final judgement?
11. Read Campbell’s second paragraph and share what you learn about the meaning of:
A. “Hour” Sudden nature of God’s judgement.
B. “Half an hour” Judgement will be sudden and unanticipated.
C. The timing of judgment Anytime
D. What application do you see for yourself in the above? The importance of always being ready.
He was talking about the end of Job when Job said, “I put my hand over my mouth.” I loved the Martyn Lloyd Jones quote how a Christian is someone whose mouth is stopped. I think once you’ve truly experienced both your own sinfulness and the awesomeness of God, there’s no more arguing. Would love your thoughts.
That was the verse in Job I was trying to remember earlier! The silence reminded me of that and I wondered why God brought that out to me and what He wanted me to “see”.
Yes, I think once we’ve truly experienced our sinfulness and God’s abounding forgiveness, faithfulness, graciousness and mercy-we grow more and more humble and abandoned to Him-the more of Him, the less of us. I kind of start to realize, who am I? Like what God said to Job-where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Though I am His and forgiven it is because of Jesus shedding His blood for me. All of my idolatrous ways of thinking I know what is best for me and others start crumbling against who He is, and He starts the crumbling process!!
So good, Rebecca.
The passage is Job 40:4,5. “I am nothing – how could I ever find the answers? I will cover my mouth with my hand. I have said too much already. I have nothing more to say.”
I will confess that I really struggled with where you were going with this question other than the silence. I understand this passage in Job and the interesting thing with Job, is that after he said that, God continued to challenge him, to which Job replied “I know that You can do anything, and no one can stop you. You asked, ‘Who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorance (ouch!)? It is I – and I was talking about things I know nothing about, things far too wonderful for me…I take back everything I said, and I sit in dust and ashes to show my repentance.” Job 4:2-6. This brought it home for me in regards to what you were saying “there’s no more arguing.”
Tim and Kathy Keller devotional on Psalm 150.
If you stay with God and process everything before Him it ends in praise and the more we see God as He is rather than just what He has done the more we will praise Him, and the more we praise Him the more we become like Him.
This is so true. I often find it is a battle with my thoughts sometimes-to really let go and give Him scary and terrible things. To be willing to let Him walk with me through grief, pain, and even in good seasons.
The things I pray for that i want Him to answer; What helps me is remembering and praising Him for who He is while I am praying-so I can let go of things I struggle to let go of and rest more in the assurance that He’ll gladly take it from my shoulders and He will gladly deal with it in His time. Regardless of His answer I can trust and rest in Him and be in wonder that I’m His.
Tim and Kathy Keller-It all ends in praise
a. Psalm 50 is the last psalm. And it is all about praise.
Where: Everywhere Why: for everything How: In every way Who should praise: Everyone
There is grief, anger, 1/3 of the psalms are lamentations but all prayers, in the end, end in praise.
b. If you process everything in prayer, it always ends in praise.
Eugene Peterson quote on Psalm 150
5 Hallelujah songs
No matter how much we suffer, doubt, and become angry or have asked in desperation how long O Lord, prayer develops in praise. A prayer pursued far enough ends in praise. Don’t rush it! It may take years decades to end in praise or hallelujahs; our prayers are always reaching in praise.
Kathy: You can lose the praise if takes decades to arrive at Hallelujahs. Record your prayers by keeping a dated journal
Hallelujahs can be expressed for 3 reasons:
80% hallelujah because it actually happened
Hallelujah because the prayer does not seem important as it used to; maybe not wise or necessary.
Hallelujah in praise to His wisdom that He did not give it. God never gave it to me but I have seen good things that have happened to me because of it.
Tim: “That is spirituality in the long run.”
I smiled when Kathy said something about her being married to 2 men other than Tim if God answered her prayers. I would say the same thing about me. One particular man was who I thought would be the answer to all my prayers. Everything looked so dismal when we parted and he married someone else. So thankful God did not answer my prayers then.
Another thought I have is a reflection on this quote: A prayer pursued far enough ends in praise. At times even when the specific answer was a long time in coming, God gives a “whiff” of an answer enough to keep me praying for the matter. The answer can either be by the Spirit speaking to me to wait or to direct my prayers a different way. Praise or a hallelujah, I believe is appropriate at these times.
Interesting about your similar situation to Kathy Keller’s, Bing. I prayed my Sally would marry Josh Harris when they dated for two years. So glad that was a no!
Dee, your prayers for Sally struck a chord for me as well, and as thankful for Sally and with you that she did not marry Josh Harris. I am praying for my daughter, Ruth, who told us she does not want to get married and have children!
I am praying for a Boaz for her but I need to give up “maneuvering” God to what is really a ridiculous hold on what I believe is best for our daughter. Here come my idols of comfort and control again! He knows what is best for her more than I would. First, she needs to go back to Jesus, her first love.
So true, Bing!
Wednesday
12. Read Revelation 8:2-4 again. What does John see? 7 angels standing before God and each given a trumpet. Another angel with a gold incense burner standing at the altar, given a great amount of incense mixed with the prayers of the saints as an offering on the gold altar before the throne. Smoke of the incense and prayers of the saints ascended to God from the altar where the offering had been poured out.
13. Read Dr. Campbell’s third paragraph beginning with “John sees further detail.”
A. What does the incense represent according to Campbell and what is his support? God’s healing prayer. Compares it to Leviticus, 1612-13. Speaking of Aaron, he fills an incense burner with the burning coals of the altar where he slaughtered the bull which is the altar before the Lord. Then takes 2 handfuls of fragrant powdered incense, carries the burner behind the inner curtain. There in the Lord’s presence will put the incense on the burning coals so a cloud of incense rises over the Ark’s cover – the place of atonement – that rests on the Ark of the Covenant. Christians are a fulfillment of the Levitical priesthood. Instead of a bull, in Revelation the prayers of the saints are sacrificed with incense before God.
B. Why does he think these are the prayers of the deceased saints? When the 5th seal is broken John sees under the altar the souls of all who have been martyred shouting to God how long before He will avenge their blood.
C. What scriptural support does Campbell offer for these various judgments being parallel rather than consecutive chronological judgments? To be honest I didn’t see any scripture he used to support it? He just says, “the fact of the incense going up indicates their petitions have been heard and further confirms that the 6th and 7ths seals depict the final judgement.”
D. Do you agree or disagree and why? I’m not sure. It always seemed in my reading Revelation that what happens during the trumpets is worse than the seals and the bowls worse than trumpets. But I’m definitely keeping a open mind.
15. Read the rest of the section and find the comfort for believers and anything else that stands out. Whatever our measure of suffering has been on account of our testimony to Christ, an eternal reward far more precious and lasting than that suffering awaits us,
Sharon, I appreciate you saying you are keeping an open mind even though you are unsure of what Campbell says in answer to Question C. May the Spirit guide us all. Wouldn’t it be something to find out later in Heaven that there is actually another view? Am so glad that these are not necessary for salvation. God, thank you that Jesus is supreme over all views of life and what we do with Him is what matters.
Sharon and Bing — It’s so good when you ask questions like this — like the Bereans! If I have time questions send me to the longer commentary Campbell did with G. K. Beale. Here’s an excerpt from the longer explanation from that:
In Psalm 141:2 prayer is associated with incense and compared to sacrifice (see psalm) …The fact that incense is offered from the altar shows that the prayers of the saints who were slain for their testimony (Rev 6:9) represent the sacrifice of their lives for the cause of Christ, and so their petition for judgment in 6:10 has been found acceptable to God. … the response of the angel throwing down fire signifies the last judgment is taking place (Rev 8:5)
There is lots more — didn’t want to overwhelm people with this longer commentary (which is actually a shorter commentary from an even longer one!) but maybe this is helpful — though I know it is mysterious.
Thank you Dee, that is very helpful.
Patti, I feel this study has drawn me closer to God as it’s caused me to be dependent upon the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, to which I cry out for several times!
Amen Bing! And I have often thought the same thing about there being another view…He is a God of surprises!
Same thing for me, Sharon. And you are such a joy.
Sharon and Bing, I had similar feelings about question C. I think these questions help us to ponder God even more and I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide each of us as we study. It is so much information to take in. Thank you, Dee, for the addition explanation. I love the Ligonier explanations of the different views. I don’t feel that I have to know an exact answer, but I am learning so much just by doing this study. I especially love that we all agree with what Bing said: God, thank you that Jesus is supreme over all views of life and what we do with Him is what matters. AMEN!
This is a rabbit trail but this might relate? Has anyone here watched the Chosen season two episode six where Mary Magdalene sinned-that scene is fictional but oh it brought to light God’s Love over law, and Mary experiencing her sin nature which brought her to her knees in Jesus presence. No arguments, she could barely gather up the courage to face Jesus and repent. It was so impactful-so much there.
It was heart breaking to see her gradually relent to satan’s condemnation, yet it was relatable. What she went through before she went to Jesus to repent is relatable too. Jesus asked her if she thought she would never struggle with sin after being forgiven, and that He wants her heart more. Isn’t that like us to forget He wants our hearts more? I am starting to think that one of the reasons it’s easy for us to revert to the law is because we are encouraged in the western church to “do” more than to love Jesus for who He is, and to worship Him first with all our heart, mind and soul. Obedience to Him flows from our love relationship with Him-not the other way around.
I loved that episode of The Chosen, Rebecca! I love the entire series because we feel like we know the hearts of each of the disciples and of Mary. I totally related to sometimes feeling that I don’t live up to what Jesus wants of me….I feel that I have let Him down; especially, in my thoughts and my stubborn heart….I do want more of Him and I am so happy that He wants our hearts more. I am trying to let go of my need “to do” and cling to my need of Him directing me to do what He wants me to do, not what I think I should do. I am praying that He will give what is His best for my children and grandchildren….not what I think is best. He already has their paths planned….I need to pray more for their hearts to desire Him and His will. I love this that you wrote: Obedience to Him flows from our love relationship with Him-not the other way around.
I loved that episode too, Rebecca. When she finally was able to look at Jesus, he said to her, “I forgive you.” And yes, the part about he and the Father wanting her heart….”we can work with that”.
I love both the Tim and Kathy Keller piece and the Kevin de Young sermon. Many of you mentioned all the wonderful thoughts in the Keller piece, so I will comment on Kevin de Young’s sermon.
I am so happy I was able to listen to it ~ though I had to do it in segments~ It really helped clarify a lot of things that were unclear to me. I took four pages of notes in my journal. I loved his explanation of Theophany-God Appearing~ starting with Exodus 19 and then in Revelation, various verses each representing the appearance of God….going through to God’s final judgment. The half hour of Silence: Climactic pause before the sudden end; Judgment; Glory. DeYoung includes several OT verses on Silence. I love the quote Dee mentioned… Martin Lloyd Jones “A Christian is someone whose mouth has been shut”. 🙂 We are in awe of our Father God and of Jesus. God, you make the rules and you tell me how to live (not the other way around). The response to something great is Silence. We worship an awesome God, let us not be fools and desire a puny God.
He addresses Moralistic Therapeutic Deism…..This section sounds like many of the lukewarm churches Rebecca mentioned.
God will reveal His full judgment and His full glory. That is so exciting!! DeYoung also has a beautiful description of the Tabernacle: the courtyard, the altars, and The Holy Place…and The Holiest Place. There is a lovely section on the burning of the incense and prayer; and discussion of the Highest Jewish Holiday, The Day of Atonement. He connects all this with Revelation.
There is so much in this sermon. Another section I loved: God has arranged things so prayer makes a difference. God has sovereignly ordered the world, so He responds to prayer. His sovereign purposes are accomplished through His people praying. The hands that fold in prayer move the hands that control the world. You make a difference when you pray. I hope I worded that correctly, but this was powerful to me. We make a big difference in the world when we pray! We do worship an Awesome God.
Patti, thank you for these wonderful notes…helped me in my frustration of the study this week. Hopefully I can find time to listen.
Same thing for me, Sharon. And you are such a joy.
Patti — I loved “God has arranged things so prayer makes a difference.” Same with evangelism somehow!
Patti and Sharon ( and all),
I am at a hotel for the next 4 days to help with the training of new teachers in MO. I was ready to skip Kevin DeYoung’s sermon as I thought I will not have time to listen but last night and this morning, I felt prompted to listen to it. I am so glad I did! I won’t repeat the good notes that Patti or Mary B wrote. But here were some of my silent moments:
Silence-the only appropriate response to God’s revealed glory and wrath.
When God answers, there is silence as one’s response should be to an unimaginable grace!
A true Christian is one whose mouth has been stopped.
He moves in response to folded hands in prayer. It is an incense, a pleasing aroma to Him (won’t forget this every time I eat a Krispy Kreme doughnut!)
And this one became radioactive to me: “If you don’t want a God who punished his Son…” Somewhere here Dee mentioned that God disciplines us in response to Rebecca,s comments, I believe. And I thought, “What a Jesus we have! He was punished (he couldn’t be disciplined because He did no wrong) but we are never punished because Jesus took the penalty/punishment of our sins. This really is helping me see the kindness of God in Jesus Christ. When I sin, He does not punish me but disciplines me so I can go back to the right path. The “rod” is not condemnation but the conviction to get back as fast as I can to my loving Savior.
My takeaway:
My prayer matters to God-it is pleasing to Him.
Silence is a response to God’s glory and His unimaginable grace.
Thankful, so thankful for this study.
7. Why is it important to make the goal of our lives to glorify God? And, how are you doing this?
I think the answer, after thinking about it, is that we WILL glorify something or someone in our lives. It’s just human nature. We can glorify people, whether athletes, well-known Christian leaders, actors/actresses, people in our own lives. We can glorify ourselves. I remember learning something in one of our studies here about God doesn’t like it when His glory is stolen. I like to glorify God when I’m out in nature, seeing His beautiful creation and thinking about how the things He has made glorify Him and point to His creativity, imagination, artistry, and power.
8. Read Revelation 8:1-5 aloud and share anything that stands out to you.
It was interesting that John noted the amount of time that the silence lasted; about half an hour. The image of the large amount of incense and the prayers of the saints going up before God, and then the angel taking the censer, filling it with fire from that golden altar, and hurling it on the earth.
9. Compare Revelation 8:4-5 with Exodus 19:18-19. What similarity do you see and what might this mean?
In Exodus it says that Mount Sinai was covered with smoke because the Lord descended on it in fire, and the mountain shook violently. In Revelation, the “fire” from the altar strikes the earth, bringing thunder and rumblings and an earthquake. Could this mean that this is when the Lord returns to judge the earth? In both passages, there are trumpets. In Exodus, the sound of the trumpet gets louder and louder. In Revelation, the angels are each given a trumpet, but it does not say that they made any sound with them. I’m not really sure what this means. In Exodus, the smoke and loud trumpet signaled the Lord’s presence there. But in Revelation, the fire being thrown down to the earth, the thunder, lightning, and earthquake seem to signify something different. The Lord was coming to speak with Moses in Exodus; I don’t get the impression of a visit on friendly terms in Revelation.
10. Read Dr. Campbell’s opening paragraph under the seventh seal and answer:
A. What is the content of the seventh seal?
The content of the seal is divine judgment.
B. God told the prophet Habakkuk He was going to execute judgment both on Israel and then on the nations who He used to refine them. What does Habakkuk tell the people in Habakkuk 2:20 and how is this similar to Revelation 8:1? What do you learn from this?
Habakkuk tells the people that the Lord is in His temple, and let all the earth be silent before Him. In Revelation 8:1, the Lord is on His throne, and there is silence. Campbell says this is the background for what is happening in Revelation, about the silence. The silence precedes the Lord getting ready to bring judgment.
C. What else stands out to you from this paragraph by Campbell?
Campbell writes that in Zechariah, all flesh is commanded to be silent before the Lord, because He has roused Himself from His holy dwelling. Campbell connects the seventh seal with the sixth (which I had to go back and refresh my memory). The sixth seal commences the final judgment, and the seventh seal completes the thoughts of the final judgment begun in the sixth seal. So I am thinking that the silence before the judgment means that there will be not one voice that is able to utter a complaint, an accusation against God, or any excuse as to why He should not bring this judgment.
D. I see a common thread with Job, Habakkuk, and here again in Revelation with the response to the judgment of God being silence. Why, do you think?
I remember that after Job asked God a lot of questions in the midst of his suffering, God came and answered him, and Job put his hand over his mouth. He had nothing to say back to God. What can we say to God? Can we accuse Him of being unfair, too harsh, irrational, or “flying off the handle”, unable to control His anger? I would think that whatever it would look like to “see” God “rousing Himself” in preparation to bring judgment, it would be pretty terrifying. Who would be so foolish as to “stand up to Him”? What can be said? There cannot be any arguments as to why He shouldn’t bring His judgment.
Interesting parallels throughout Revelations. Thanks for your insights too.