WE HAVE BEGUN A JOURNEY WE WILL
BE ON FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES
BUT OH!
STONES ARE BEING CHISELED
HEARTS OF FLESH RELEASED
TO LOVE, TO FEEL, AND TO EXPERIENCE
THE POWER OF GOD
This week, before the beauty of concentrating on Thanksgiving and Advent, we will review where we’ve been, and as part of that review, discuss a movie that portrays some of the themes we’ve discussed. The Tree of Life grapples with what Romans 6, 7, 8 calls the old nature (simply called nature in the film) and the new nature (called grace in the film) and with the difficult question of suffering, drawing upon the close of Job. The story of this Texas family shows how “nature” and its natural bent of clinging to idols destroys, and how “grace” and its gift of trusting God can overcome. I’ve received e-mails from those wondering why I would recommend this movie, and it true it is not a light movie, but I believe it to be one, when discussed, that may act as a hammer in the shattering of stones in your heart. I was so moved by it in so many ways. I sensed the quickening of God on the writer/producer — more than he may have even realized. To my knowledge, none of the lead actors are believers, yet God used them. (As He used Cyrus, “though he does not know me” to free the Jews.) It might be a movie to discuss over the holidays with people you love — even non-Christians.
Here is an excellent review from Christianity Today which I recommend that you read before watching. (They feel it is appropriate for children and I do too, though not the very young.) Here is that review:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/movies/reviews/2011/treeoflife.html
STONECUTTER REVIEW:
When we began, I asked you to begin to identify a heart idol. Tim Keller, in Counterfeit Gods, identifies three primary heart idols.
1: COMFORT/SECURITY
2. POWER/CONTROL
3. AFFIRMATION/APPROVAL
So often in the past we have tried to work on the “near sin” but ignored the deep heart idol. For example, someone with the near sin of losing his temper might try to count to ten, but as long as he ignores his deep heart idol of control, he will not be likely to have victory. It isn’t enough to try harder, or to be a faithful church goer, but you absolutely must identify how you are trusting in something other than God. We all do it, for it is our natural bent.
In the same way, someone with a near sin of overeating, overspending, or oversleeping may get a better diet, budget, or alarm clock — but until she allows God to be her comfort instead of food, or shopping, or sleep, she will not have victory.
We may have never considered that we have an idolatry problem. We are simply living in a way that feels natural, or, as The Tree of Life puts it, “the way of nature.”The father in The Tree of Life loved his family, and yet he nearly destroyed them, and passed down his abusive ways to his eldest son. It isn’t until he loses the job that he gave his all to that he sees the clay feet of his idol. We may not realize we are living for power or approval or comfort — but seeing our idols and how they destroy is indeed, half the battle. Realizing they are not our friends can change our whole lives, as many of you have seen.
We also learned that idols cannot be removed, only replaced. We must allow, in faith, to allow God to be our approval, our comfort, our security, our control… That is a journey that happens as we abide in Him, and as we practice the habit of turning from the darkness of our idol to the light of the One True God. Repenting must become like breathing. The more you experience God’s love, the more you long for it, and your heart of flesh will continue to be released.
Sunday/Monday (Icebreaker and make plans to see the movie)
1. During our journey, name at least one heart idol you identified and ways that You saw the Stonecutter move in your life, both in chiseling the stone and in being to you what your idol could not be.
Monday-Wednesday: Bible Study
The prophets use the terms of idolatry and adultery almost interchangeably. Their point is that sin is not so much “breaking a rule,” but breaking God’s heart. Hosea was commanded to marry an unfaithful woman as a living parable for God’s people, that we might see the futility of running after our idols, how we are breaking God’s heart, and what He longs to show us about Himself.
When Kathy Troccoli and I were praying what book of the Bible we would use for the third in our trilogy about approaching Jesus as our bridegroom, Kathy wanted to do portraits of Christ from The Gospel of John. I wanted to do portraits of Christ from the prophet Hosea. After praying for God’s heart and likemindedness of two very strong-willed and different women, one night, I woke suddenly in the middle of the night thinking, “I wonder if we might see the same portraits of Jesus in both the writings of Hosea and the writings of John.” I could already see The Redeemer, The Lion, and The Bridegroom in both — but the most important portraits of Jesus in John are the eight great I AM’s, and I didn’t see THE GREAT I AM in Hosea. But I wondered… I went downstairs in the middle of the night and curled up with Hosea in my green leather chair — might I find THE GREAT I AM? During that reading I wondered if THE GREAT I AM might be seen, in the negative in Hosea 2:2. The next day I called Dorian Coover-Cox, a Hebrew expert at Dallas Seminary, and she confirmed it. She said, “YES! YES! He is saying, because of your infidelities, for a time, I am separating from you — and I AM NOT your husband. It’s temporary, to bring her to her senses, and He sees a day when she will again call Him her husband and He will enable her to keep her covenant.” Forever in Love with Jesus therefore shows the portraits of Christ that are in both Hosea and John,because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And it is filled with amazing portraits by Martin French done especially for that study.
2. Read Hosea 2
A. Why is the Lord going to “separate” from His people, saying I am not her husband, according to verses 1-2?
B. Why, according to verse 5, did she decide to go after her lovers?
C. What does she not realize, according to verse 8?
D. Describe God’s heartbreak in verse 13. How has this fact helped you resist your idols more effectively than approaches in the past? Be specific by describing the old approach and the new approach.
E. Why did God lead His bride into the wilderness? Meditate long on Hosea 2:14-15.
F. Describe a way that the failure of an idol in your life ultimately led to you hearing God’s tender voice.
G. In Hosea 2:16-23, describe how we will be truly changed when we see Jesus face to face. (“In that Day”)
H. What stands out to you from Hosea 2 and why?
3. Preparation for watching The Tree of Life
A. The movie opens with Job 38:4. Read this verse in context. What point is God making to Job with this verse and with the ensuing questions in the close of this magnificent book?
B. Suffering can turn our hearts to stone if we do not trust God, but God has given us far more evidence than Job ever had for us to trust Him. Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes.
4. The movie opens with the statement that there are two ways of life — the way of grace and the way of nature. Meditate on this passage from Romans 6:
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
In terms of our Stonecutter study, you often have the choice during the day to present yourself to your idol or to trust God. What promise can you find in verse 14 and what does this tell you about “the way of nature/idols” and “the way of grace/God.”
5. There is a point in the movie where the eldest son is becoming abusive like his father and he quotes Romans – I do not do what I want to do, but I do what I hate. How have you experienced the power of sin spiraling you down — and how has God been able to reach down and rescue you?
REFLECTING ON THE MOVIE (Friday-Saturday)
6. WHAT CHRISTIAN THEMES STOOD OUT TO YOU FROM THE MOVIE AND WHY?
7. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT “THE WAY OF GRACE” AND “THE WAY OF NATURE” IN THE OPENING? COMMENT, IF YOU DO.
8. THERE IS A KALIEDOSCOPE OF IMAGES FROM THE CLOSE OF JOB AND THEREFORE CREATION IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE MOVIE. (NOTE THAT THEY TAKE PLACE IN THE SAME AREA THE BOYS PLAYED.) WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU AND WHY? FAVORITE IMAGES?
9. The mother represents grace, but grace does not mean licentiousness or freedom from the law. Find examples of when she talked sternly to her eldest son about his abuse. When you are aware of a parent’s love (or God’s love) why is obedience more likely?
10. What do you think the father’s idol was and why? How was it bringing destruction?
11. What awakened the father to the futility of his idol? What evidence of repentance did you see in the father in his words to his wife after the son died?
12. Do you think the mother could have handled the situation any differently? Why or why not?
13. What did you think the closing scene represented?
14. Describe the forgiveness scene between the two brothers. Comment.
15. Why do you think the movie was called “The Tree of Life?”
16. What was your take-a-way from the movie — positive or negative?
301 comments
G. In Hosea 2:16-23, describe how we will be truly changed when we see Jesus face to face. (“In that Day”)
Our idols will be removed! Right now they can’t be removed, only replaced-so we will bathe in His approval, comfort and security-there won’t be that natural pull away from Him. Also, the times we sense His presence now-it comes as a bubbling brook most of the time. SOmetimes he comes as a waterfall-or a roaring wave flushing over us-but those consuming waves can be rare, yet when we are with him face to face-He will respond-They won’t be rare. There won’t be these intermittent senses of His absence like we have here on Earth. Our marriage will be consummated so to speak-we will be one completely. (the best way I can think to describe it). 🙂
H. What stands out to you from Hosea 2 and why?
He amazes me-that may sound too simple-but His love amazes me. His desire for Israel-His desire for me astounds me. His faithfulness to go to the cross-to shed his blood-to take on my insults-my idolatry-to put Himself aside for me. Instead of abandoning me in my adultery-He rescues me-He forgave once and for all and restored me to Himself, but sin still puts up a block in my fellowship with Him yet He still rescues me-still longs for a closer relationship with me. I really believe He also longs for the consummation in the future when I am with Him face to face-like a bridegroom awaits. I also believe we can’t know this in full, only in part while we are here because of sin and idolatry-but we will on that day when He removes our idols-I CAN’T WAIT!
Do you get Christianity Today? I am troubled by an article that says we can’t really have sustainable intimacy with Jesus — perhaps I don’t understand what he is saying — and I know it is not a waterfall, but as you say, a bubbling brook — let me know if you get it and read it and give me your opinion!
OH my! Yes, we can have sustainable intimacy with Jesus-and I have found it gets deeper as time goes on-although I want it to go deeper yet-like Keller said the depth of the bubbling brook starts out like a mile deep, but as we draw closer to God it goes two miles deep-I forgot exactly what he said, but it was similar to that-I wonder why Christianity today says that? I will have to read it.
What is the title of the article? I am looking online. I don’t subscribe to Christianity Today.
I don’t know if it is online. It’s called “Disappointed with Intimacy”
Great! I will look for it-I am going to google it before I leave for work. It is my LAST week working 20 hours a week! yay! 🙂
Dee, I don’t think it is online. I did find a Bible Study outline on it, and I was troubled with some of the ‘teaching points’: http://biblestudies.stores.yahoo.net/ourdiwigod.html
Don’t you think our longings CAN be fulfilled here? One of the teaching points says we must wait for the fulfillment of our longings. Teaching point five REALLY bothers me.
Sorry, I just dropped the boys off at school and had to come back. I was thinking as I was driving-scary thing! 🙂 I think when there is the cycle of repentance and faith here on Earth-as I turn from my sin, from my idols my intimacy grows. I am HORRIBLE at articulating this because it is supernatural- It sounds like this writer takes the concept of sensing His absence as if He really is absent, when the whole point is that the Reason we sense his absence is because He is present. I remember Keller saying that. Does that make sense?
I also have to say, the closer in intimacy I have gotten-the deeper the bubbling brook goes-the more of a stranger I feel in this world-I understand what God says when He says we are not of this world and nothing around me is as fulfilling as He is, yet I know this is only a taste in comparison to when I am face to face- I can’t imagine how deep that will be.
Well an online version came through e-mail and I commented — but loved your point about absence which I didn’t say — I may have misunderstood him — but it made me sad for readers
Elizabeth, THANKS! How in the world did you find the article? I think I googled everything I could think of.
I could be wrong, but what bothered me overall was his approach to God. there might be an idol issue which I picked up on when he talked about his disappointment in ministry and in life-also, perhaps he wants God for what He can give rather than wanting Him for Him-in regard to his unmet expectations? These things do block intimacy with God.
I didn’t like the comment about prayer at all. I find great comfort in hearing-He speaks to me through the word and in prayer He brings scripture to mind, even songs! Prayer is a two way street-I am aligning with His desires-You bet his personality is experienced in prayer.
Your comment on the bottom was VERY rich!
sorry I can’t edit..I have to jump off to pick up the boys from church. 🙂
Before I leave, I have to say-I am coming at this from an angle of observation-I don’t want to be critical at all! We all struggle-so perhaps we should pray! 🙂
I have to add, my heart goes out to the readers who may now believe they can’t have this deep intimacy with God-that is sad!
sorry to interrupt you 2, but I got curious–I think I found it–is this it? Haven’t read yet…
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/november/disappointedintimacy.html
I think it is it Elizabeth this is what really stood out to me as sad and not true….I pray He experiences God in a more real way.
The Bible does promise that we can have true intimacy with Christ. But this intimacy, which is mediated through the Holy Spirit, is unlike any other relationship with which we are familiar. It is one in which we are known more than we know (1 Cor. 13:12). The comfort we find in the conversation of prayer is the comfort of being heard more than of hearing (1 John 5:14-15). It is a relationship that is personal but reveals little about Jesus’ personality. It is also a relationship where our greatest intimacy will be experienced in the future rather than the present. For the present, we should not expect to find ultimate fulfillment in our experience of Christ. That is yet to come.
This is me again! 🙂
I do believe the best is yet to come however, through His word we can deeply know Him, as we work through breaking free from things in the wilderness or trials He reveals deeper intimacy to us and we are able to know Him deeper. He has not experienced this…apparently.
Then about prayer, well clearly Scripture speaks of the sheep hearing the masters voice and when a thought popped in your head out of no where or you taught and amazing message you know that was God. That is intimacy, grace the deeper things of hearing…And oh my Jesus personality shines all over the place as we experience Him in trial, etc He is hilarious, loving, kind, and teaches, leads and guides. I have had the best time with Him in this wilderness and that was not all fake. It is real intimacy of experiencing Him. Through His word and Spirit as I sit still in His presence. Now yes our greatest intimacy will be experienced in Heaven here things are skewed this is true. 🙂 How often we miss it and I think He has. That is dangerous ground for self-sufficiency.
these same points stuck out to me too Angela, specifically: “…is the comfort of being heard more than of hearing (1 John 5:14-15). It is a relationship that is personal but reveals little about Jesus’ personality”
I felt sad for him too–honestly, I prayed for him, because it felt like he was writing from a hurt, lonely place…like maybe he is in a season of wilderness. But I believe the Holy Spirit, as Keller said, the power of God within our hearts, does allow us to hear Him, to know Him, to experience Him, in some deep degree here on earth…that is the fellowship with Him…oh, I’m rambling, sorry!
Thanks Elizabeth for finding the article. I read it but may need to read again when I am not so tired. Right now my take is that what we experience now is nothing to what we will experience when we lose our sinful natures. BUT, I also think they too greatly minimalize what we can experience now. Maybe they are saying that we should not expect this continually until we attain our marriage? I think it is true that we will experience dry times but what we experience now will sustain us through those times.
yes i hope that is what he was saying…Cuz we do have dry times for sure.
A. The movie opens with Job 38:4. Read this verse in context. What point is God making to Job with this verse and with the ensuing questions in the close of this magnificent book? asking him do you really trust me? it seems like he wasnt really trusting him.. but again i am not sure.
B. Suffering can turn our hearts to stone if we do not trust God, but God has given us far more evidence than Job ever had for us to trust Him. Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes.
For me listening to music! I love music! It calms me that is why i listen to it at night as i go to sleep! Also his word and having it memorized helps!
2. Read Hosea 2
A. Why is the Lord going to “separate” from His people, saying I am not her husband, according to verses 1-2?
Because His people have committed spiritual adultery against the Lord by turning to false gods/idols.
B. Why, according to verse 5, did she decide to go after her lovers?
God’s people got mixed up in their thinking; forgetting that it was God who provided everything for them; it was He who had given them this land of milk and honey; yet they looked to their pagan neighbors as the source of their food, water, clothing, and wine. They may have begun to sacrifice to false gods, like the pagans, to appease these gods so their blessings would continue.
C. What does she not realize, according to verse 8?
That it was God who gave Israel, His spiritual wife, her grain, wine, and oil; who lavished silver and gold on her.
D. Describe God’s heartbreak in verse 13. How had this fact helped you resist your idols more effectively than approaches in the past? Be specific by describing the old approach and the new approach.
Last Sunday in church, the pastor referenced spiritual adultery. He asked the men in the congregation, “How would you feel if your wife was messing around with somebody else?”
Here in verse 13, it’s like God is watching His “wife” making herself beautiful, putting on her special jewelry, for another man; He is watching her “make love” to someone else. God feels forgotten.
I need to be reminded of this fresh and new, today. I forget so quickly. I am getting better at seeing the idol lurking under the sin, but then I can go back to that old pattern of “that’s wrong; I have this sinful attitude because underneath is an idol of control, or approval”. But I leave God out of the equation! Here it is again; He is standing there, waiting for me to come to Him, while I try to manipulate my circumstances, or eat a sweet, or buy something on impulse. The old approach of trying to memorize a verse and apply it also leaves out how God feels when He is ignored.
We all forget quickly and your reminder reminds us all! 🙂 Sounds like a good sermon from your pastor.
E. Why did God lead His bride into the wilderness? Meditate long on Hosea 2:14-15.
First, I am struck by the contrast of “allure her” and “lead her into the desert”.
If a man wanted to allure his wife, one would think he might go all out, surprising her with a romantic candlelit dinner, a gift of expensive jewelry, wonderful food, music; an atmosphere to create the ultimate in comfort for her. But here is God alluring His “wife” by taking her into the desert. When I think of a desert, I don’t think of it being comfortable; it’s dry, hot during the day, cold at night; filled with creatures like snakes and lizards. It doesn’t sound like an alluring place.
God’s people had all these material comforts and were indulging in them, but were paying homage to false gods for them and had made these things idols.
So it’s like God said “We’ve got to go back to square one”, and in verse 15 God is remembering how His people were when they first came out of Egypt, in the desert. He will strip her of all her material comforts/idols; but not really – for it was in the desert that He so richly provided for her and she was totally dependent upon Him. She looked to Him for her every need, and He never disappointed. It was then that Israel did sing songs of deliverance and thanksgiving to their God.
God had to remove every idol and every comfort from His wife, yet it was not an act of cruelty, it was an act of love; “I will speak tenderly to her”. With no distractions, she will be able to hear His voice, and respond to Him with love.
His purpose was to ultimately restore every kindness and blessing to her; but He had to first put her in a place of total dependence upon Him.
F. Describe a way that the failure of an idol in your life ultimately led you to hearing God’s tender voice.
This is exciting because this is an old story but today I am seeing it in a new way, too. For about 18 months before my 3rd child was born, I was having an affair in my mind with another man. We were friends with another couple and I felt like I was in love with this other man. He seemed to be everything my husband was not. While I never physically did anything about my feelings, I thought of this man constantly, and whenever we went out with this couple, I would make sure I looked my best. So just reading verse 13 again, I can almost see how God watched me adorning myself for another man, giving my heart to another, making my life all about being focused on this man, filling my thoughts with him. I lived for every opportunity to see this man.
After my baby was born, I began to fall apart, having physical health problems, and emotional problems, too. Fear, panic attacks, anxiety, depression. I was a mess. One night when I was home alone with the baby, I was on my knees praying, and I asked God, “Why can’t I just be happy like I was a year ago?” And I heard God’s tender voice, in my mind, asking me, “What were you so happy about?” And I saw it. I saw how I had been making this man the source of my happiness. But my idol had failed me, because there I was, miserable and alone; my idol could not help me, but I realized I had God. I saw that I was guilty of spiritual adultery. It was the beginning ot breaking me of this idol. At first I was foolish enough to think that now that I saw the problem, I could handle the friendship. God took care of that. The friendship simply went away – nothing happened, they just sort of went out of our life.
Looking back I am so thankful that God loved me enough to save me from my own stupidity and from going down a path that could have been disastrous. He took me into the wilderness but it was the best thing for me!
Great great story! Thank you for sharing it.
1. During our journey, name at least one heart idol you identified and ways that you saw the Stonecutter move in your life, both in chiseling the stone and in being to you what your idol could not be.
I discovered on this journey that all three heart idols called my name in various ways but the one which called the loudest is POWER/CONTROL. The Lord helped me realize that by using Dr. Leslie Vernick in her counsel to pay attention to body language. As I have shared before, one particular Sunday I became aware of an urge overtaking me and I quickly realized it was the idol of power/control calling my name. My instant prayer was, “Lord put a guard over my tongue. I want to use it as a dice-o-matic.” The urge left and after much time of reflection I came to realize that what I was wanting to control was the speech of another person when I disagreed with their OPINION. I see that I want to be in the right and, I am glad I can say now, I no longer want the satisfaction of proving someone to be wrong. We are all entitled to have opinions and I am learning to sort opinion from fact. Jesus, THE WORD, is my whole reason for living, and I am getting comfortable with wearing the student hat and not the teacher hat. One way the Stonecutter chiseled my stone was by using Romans 14 to remind me, not once but twice in a week, that I am to love the weaker brother and I myself am a weaker brother compared to some of you. When my pastor preached a sermon from Romans 14 and the upcoming SS lesson was on the same topic I knew God was speaking directly to me. You see, I had begun to stop attending SS because, quite frankly, it all boiled down to my pettiness. This past Sunday I went to SS, joyfully, and lo and behold when I got to class no one was there. I joined another class that morning and saw my SS leader in choir and I later discovered that my SS class had moved to another room and no one had bothered to let me know. Well, in times past I would have really gotten upset and changed classes but this time the Spirit reminded me to bear the weakness of others. I let my SS leader know I would be out of town this Sunday and I am really looking forward to going back to SS. I don’t have to be teaching a SS class for validation. I am loved by God and if I never step foot in front of another class as long as I remain on earth I still get to grow in the knowledge of Christ through the study of Him and His Word.
My personal theme for 2011 has been JOURNEY TO FREEDOM and I am ending the year free from all the baggage of my past 48 years. As an old southern gospel song says, I WOULDN’T TAKE NOTHING FOR MY JOURNEY NOW!!! As I have told y’all before I would not have made it this far without all of you holding me up in prayer. Looking forward to Thanksgiving reflections and Advent. This will be my only post this week. Please pray for me on the 18th (Friday). I will be traveling to Alabama for my thirty year high school class reunion. I’ll be returning home on Sunday the 20th.
BLESSINGS!!!
Glad to hear your leg is better Dee. I have been praying for you.
Good to see your post. Love your theme for the year. I will pray for you, Tammy. Safe travels!
Tammy — there is so much of a teachable spirit here. It is wonderful!
A. The movie opens with Job 38:4. Read this verse in context. What point is God making to Job with this verse and with the ensuing questions in the close of this magnificent book?
Job’s perspective is limited due to the amount of time he’s lived on the earth. He has limited knowledge and limited experience. God existed from eternity, designed the world and keeps it functioning. He is the absolute authority not only as creator/sustainer but in overseeing every detail of Job’s life and working out His great purpose for Job’s benefit.
B. Suffering can turn our hearts to stone if we do not trust God, but God has given us far more evidence than Job ever had for us to trust Him. Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes.
I have been having headaches almost daily for three weeks (I will improve when it freezes outside). When they come I ask God to heal me but if He does not I trust Him to be near me until they pass. Sometimes I consider His love or His suffering. I often tell myself a favorite verse, Job 13:15, “Though He slay me, yet will I put my trust in Him” in this way I remind myself that His plan is bigger and better and He can be trusted no matter what pain He allows. Since being in this study I have come to grasp His love for me in a much greater degree and this helps too when pain comes.
Im frustrated with my slow reading and inability to read all your posts:( Im sorry! my dyslexia makes reading slow and my family makes time very limited. I know you all have such great things to share!
the desert that was our marriage for so many years has given me a different perspective on this I think. as isreal went other places to find what she thought she needed she was doing what her limited sight thought she needed to do. it did not “feel” like her “needs” were getting met so she took matters in her own hands.
I pushed and pushed and pushed Paul to give me the emotional intamacy I thought i needed I wanted Him to make me feel comfortable and for him to give me what only God can give. the lonliness at first made me over active and then pushed me into the arms of our loving savior.
But it was not until I gave up my “right” to have the husband i thought i deserved. Gave up trying to control him and everything about our lives, that God was able to come it and soften my heart. I have been able to forgive and forget, to let things go and insist that I am always right. I have slowed down to let him catch up when i am planning things. I ask for his advice and listen to it. all these things are a sign of the idol of control being broken.
now, if only I could do that ALL the time and with the kids too:)
Cyndi — this is so good. Thanks for being so vulnerable.
Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes.
1. God is in control.
2. God knows the reason for and the outcome of this suffering.
3. God is love and goodness all things that come our way will be turned to good.
I usually do not journal, but last year I wrote something down that came to me and as I read it today, I am blown away with how it parallels my life right now and how I am lacking in fully believing what I wrote, so much has changed for me in the last year.
I wrote: “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28)-does not equal hand God lemons and He’ll make lemonade, that would be saying that God will make the best of a bad situation. No, the bible says that He will work it for good. He will make it an ingredient for good. It will become such an integral part of the the good that it cannot be separated from it. Lost your job? It is part of the good. Bad health? It is part of the good. Child kidnapped and murdered? Yes, it too is part of the good. If your are called of God and love God it is ALL worked together for good. There is no way for good to triumph over evil without God’s ability to take what is meant for evil and MAKE IT GOOD. Even the most hurtful, violent or stressful things are made a part of the good.
If you find this hard to accept or believe then you need to read the bible, pray and ask God to accept the hard truths and the unbelievable.”
Since I wrote this my husband’s educational buyout deal ended in April with his graduation from college and he still hasn’t found a job the pays even half of what he was making before he went to school. My emotional and mental health has taken a dive that I never would have believed would ever happen to me (and still can’t for that matter) and my niece who was my daughter was killed in a freak accident. I know God was preparing me and it makes me cry to think of how I am grappling to believe what was so easy to believe last year.
Dawn, my heart goes out to you for all this suffering. We must hold you up in prayer! Jesus, I pray and lift my sister in Christ, up to you. You alone can redeem these terrible hurts and restore Dawn and her family. I ask you to tenderly comfort and sustain her. I pray she runs to you, her strong tower, for safety from the storms of life. Amen.
Father wrap your arms of comfort around Dawn this very moment. Though her mountains are being shaken and her hills have been removed, Your unfailing love for Dawn is not shaken nor has Your covenant of PEACE been removed. Thank You for leading her to us so we can lift her up to You. In the name of our Blessed Redeemer Christ Jesus. Amen.
Amen to the prayers for you, Dawn M.S. “Yeah, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.” Lord, comfort and strengthen Dawn through this valley. In Your powerful name, Amen.
“ask God to help you accept the hard truths…”
Thanks for sharing with us Dawn — so much pain. We can better pray.
In terms of our Stonecutter study, you often have the choice during the day to present yourself to your idol or to trust God. What promise can you find in verse 14 and what does this tell you about “the way of nature/idols” and “the way of grace/God.” 14. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What a key verse for us! I am finding my idol has less and less power(dominion)over me because I am living in and enjoying God’s grace. I am presented with a choice every day to yield myself to my idol (I find it a tyrannical taskmaster)and obey it which brings death or yield myself servant to God and it’s fruit brings life. In terms of the Stonecutter/the gospel I WANT to submit myself, my day to Him b/c I see the Great Love that took my place on the cross, I see the pain bowing my knee to my idol causes Him and I run to Him submitting my will to His will out of thankfulness. I have concluded with Ann Voskamp, It is all grace! Thank you, Jesus.
5. There is a point in the movie where the eldest son is becoming abusive like his father and he quotes Romans – I do not do what I want to do, but I do what I hate. How have you experienced the power of sin spiraling you down — and how has God been able to reach down and rescue you?
Yes! my idol made me do things I would otherwise never do. The old saying, “Sin will take you farther than you ever wanted to go…” Worshiping my idol made me angry, sad and hopeless. I often quoted the verse mentioned.
God reached down to me through this study and through Dr. Keller’s sermons which opened my eyes to the truth that pierced my hard concrete heart and rescued me with the gospel.
Prayer request: I am rejoicing in some real victories over my comfort idol(food) the past three weeks but know God wants me to eat less at mealtime. I want to stop eating when I feel just satisfied as opposed to stopping when I feel full. I see it as greediness to say in my heart, “I’m already giving up this and this I shouldn’t have to eat less as well.” The truth I must speak to my soul is that whatever it takes to be at a healthy weight is not too high a price to pay in light of the price He paid for me on the cross and His sweet rescue these past months. Another truth is I am fully responsible for bowing to this idol. It is going to cost me personally but God is my helper and I am not alone. I can do all things through Christ as He strengthens me.
I want to share a clip that blessed my socks off sisters. You know this idol breaking can feel at times like suffering and it can feel lonely like it’s just me and God and I can wonder if I am going to make it through. It’s not the terrible suffering many of you are going through but it does hurt. This morning I needed to stir up my faith and God led me to this:
http://youtu.be/igyCX7wmKgc
Thanks for sharing Kim.. I love Beth Moore!
Thanks for sharing this. I shared it with a couple of my friends who are going through tough times.
yes love it Kim
shared this on FB and a lot of people really needed it, thanks!!!
Ladies
I feel a deep conviction to share with you that i gave into temptation today.. I have been having a very hard week.. so please pray i feel myself going in the ‘downward spiral’
Meg may God give you strength to say no to this temptation now. Hang in there. Praying for you.
dear sweet Meg. please don’t let this one sin make you feel like you are not loveable! I know as a mom the child that has been hurt and is struggling the most is the one that has a special place in my heart for that time
I think God has a very special place in HIS heart for you Meg. please dont let this make you feel like you are not “good enough”!
I had a friend who was in a samesex relationship from 12-22 and she got married with out telling anyone. it came out 2 years later. she would often say that she could not figure out how God could love her and her guilt eventually turned her from God and her family.
now I know that whenever she gave into the type of temptation you gave into she would say “God just cant love me when i do what im doing” and she really believed this. I wish I would have known then what i know now, but i just did not understand.
please please please know that God is crazy about you Meg, He loves you so very much, so not let satan tell you the lie that your not loveable if you do this. its his trick to keep you from the one who REALY loves you!!!!!
you are loved so much by our savior!!! NO MATTER WHAT
its a double edged sword. the act of sin keeps us from realizing Gods best for us but the guilt of sin keeps you from letting HIM love you. as you find healing Meg, give yourself grace and EVERY TIME you fall into tempation go to Him and let Him hold you and show you how much he loves you….NO MATTER WHAT
Good counsel for Meg from dear cyndi!
Thank you Dear Cyndi! This encouraged me sooo much!
Meg. i also remember something that Dee said a while ago. she talked about how the more we focus on beating the sin the more our minds are on that sin and the more we strugggle with it.
she said what we need to do is turn our thoughts and minds and hearts to jesus and his love and the good things he wants us to think about, fill our minds with the good and the sin will eventualy just fade away into the background because it can not compete with HIS love.
i remember a movie where a little girl was having nightmares and a woman told her whatever she did do not dream of bunnies…of course that night she dreampt of bunnies because she was trying so hard not to and no more nightmares…
you are self comforting, that is normal. I wonder if there is another behaviour that would comfort you that you could turn to in times of hurt??? i will be praying for you to find one so that as you are healing from your past your heart will be drawn to GOD even as you stuggle.
hope that makes sence…..
Thank you Cyndi! So encouraging! Love you sis 🙂
🙂
3. Preparation for watching The Tree of Life
A. The movie opens with Job 38:4. Read this verse in context. What point is God making to Job with this verse and with the ensuing questions in the close of this magnificent book? I am so big and so infinite you cannot even begin to understand. Be silent before me and trust. I take care of all things. They are all in my hands. Nothing is too big for me or goes without my notice.
B. Suffering can turn our hearts to stone if we do not trust God, but God has given us far more evidence than Job ever had for us to trust Him. Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes. Oh just how He is always there. How he answers prayer. Provides. Has come through in the past so I know He will again. The Word, examples there. He is so good to us. Over and over. It may not look the way we want or think it should but it is His way and we can trust.
4. Sin has no right to rule you now. We are under grace. We must tell it no.
5. There is a point in the movie where the eldest son is becoming abusive like his father and he quotes Romans – I do not do what I want to do, but I do what I hate. How have you experienced the power of sin spiraling you down — and how has God been able to reach down and rescue you? Well an example is like eating sweets. I think I will just eat one which is not sinful in and of itself. but then I feel it luring me to satisfy a deeper hunger. I give in again, then again, and again and pretty much everytime I can buy one, etc. God opens my eyes to this and lets me know it is wrong and helps me say no as I run to Him and run to His arms. He is the only thing that can fulfill me.
3.A. The movie opens with Job 38:4. Read this verse in context. What point is God making to Job with this verse and with the ensuing questions in the close of this magnificent book?
His point is that we really don’t have understanding about the creation of the world, or about God himself and why he does what he does.
B. Suffering can turn our hearts to stone if we do not trust God, but God has given us far more evidence than Job ever had for us to trust Him. Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes.
God loves me. God has a purpose for me. God will bring justice. One day I will be free from all pain and have eternal joy in God’s presence.
4. The movie opens with the statement that there are two ways of life — the way of grace and the way of nature. Meditate on this passage from Romans 6:12-14
In terms of our Stonecutter study, you often have the choice during the day to present yourself to your idol or to trust God. What promise can you find in verse 14 and what does this tell you about “the way of nature/idols” and “the way of grace/God.”
Sin does not have ultimate hold on me any longer. The way of grace is how I can live now, moment by moment.
3. Preparation for watching The Tree of Life
A. The movie opens with Job 38:4. Read this verse in context. What point is God making to Job with this verse and with the ensuing questions in the close of this magnificent book?
Who are you to know my ways? Trust me.
B. Suffering can turn our hearts to stone if we do not trust God, but God has given us far more evidence than Job ever had for us to trust Him. Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes.
Well, The Gospel-I know God Loves me so much He had His son suffer on the cross the worst kind of suffering-Jesus didn’t endure taking on God’s wrath and separation from God in that moment to keep me at arms length-so I know He Loves me, I know He sees my suffering and wants me to come to Him-He says come to me all who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest. I think of how He comforted Mary on the way to heal Lazarus-He stopped and wept with her-He didn’t have to do that but He did. He could have told her to rejoice for He was going to heal Lazarus, but He didn’t so that is significant-He is the great comforter. So I can trust He will comfort me and give me rest in my suffering-it is a process of Lamenting and trusting and listening as he quickens my heart in His word-He will come to me like the spring rains in my suffering-He does so with His word, and with other believers.
4.
Wow..Verse 12 says to not let it reign to make me obey it’s passions-so I ask, how can I not let it reign? Again, I go back to the Gospel-Jesus brought me from death to life! So sin doesn’t have to have dominion over me anymore. When I reflect on Jesus’ Grace and Mercy toward me by paying my penalty to bring me from death to life-that compels me to choose to go to Him in repentance and faith.
5. There is a point in the movie where the eldest son is becoming abusive like his father and he quotes Romans – I do not do what I want to do, but I do what I hate. How have you experienced the power of sin spiraling you down — and how has God been able to reach down and rescue you?
I think it is every day to be honest. For me now the struggle is control over my time, my kids etc..So when I feel my teeth grit a lot of times God brings scripture to mind and moves my heart to repentance, and trusting Him-and I don’t let it go further where I allow my idol to make me obey it’s passions. I am learning, however, when I do fail and obey it’s passions it is because I didn’t listen to God’s quickening, and forgot the Gospel again-yet there is Grace. He has allowed the consequences and the way He has rescued me is when He reveals to me how my actions have effected my children-it brings me to my knees in repentance and then He enables me to walk in faith. You know, I also thought of how my sisters here like Cyndi, Anne, Elizabeth and others as well as my face to face sisters have encouraged me in parenting. This too is God’s rescue of comfort and wisdom.
Oh, and I forgot to add that when I do experience the power of sin spiraling me down-I hate it-first of all because I feel like I am cheapening His death on the cross-I forget! It is like I am ignoring Him-He Who loves me incomprehensibly-It is like I am saying, God you lied. This breaks my heart too. I just want it to break my heart so badly that the thought of me even taking a first step toward my idol leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Anne, Angela, Elizabeth, and Rebecca — each of you who read that article that upset me — thank you! After I wrote my comment I felt I had written in the heat of passion and gained empathy for those who come on this blog doing so and then cannot edit! So that was good for me. I could have been clearer! But I appreciated you reading it and commenting it. I think he had some good points but I am sad that it was a lead article and that I think it will lead people to believe intimacy is unattainable now. I wish I had quoted what Rebecca mentioned from Keller — a sign of His absence is a sign of His presence. Anyhow — thank you each for caring and reading…
I totally understand, but I didn’t see anything you would need to edit. You really articulated well what intimacy with God looks like. I really believe God is passionate about this-He went to the cross for it and I think your passion reflects His.
4. The movie opens with the statement that there are two ways of life — the way of grace and the way of nature. Meditate on this passage from Romans 6:
2Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
In terms of our Stonecutter study, you often have the choice during the day to present yourself to your idol or to trust God. What promise can you find in verse 14 and what does this tell you about “the way of nature/idols” and “the way of grace/God.” Well we are not under the law (the way of nature/idols) but Under Grace and we are to trust God and turn to him when we are wanting to turn into our idols.. But we are not to give in just becuase God gives us Grace.. There is a verse that says shall we keep on sinning so GOd can show us more and more of his wonderful grace of course not!
I thank God every day that He brought me to this study where I can be enlightened and uplifted by the comments and prayers of my faithful sisters!
AMEN!
5. There is a point in the movie where the eldest son is becoming abusive like his father and he quotes Romans – I do not do what I want to do, but I do what I hate. How have you experienced the power of sin spiraling you down — and how has God been able to reach down and rescue you? Well i can give a recent example, for the past couple of weeks i have been really bad about doing my quiet time.. and it showed i was really giving into the enemy in many areas and yeserday giving into tempation. This morning i literally got on my face and prayed and cried out to God to rescue me and bring me back to himself! I am feeling sooo much better and so much happier! and joyful!
I thought of this verse:
I do not do what I want to do, but I do what I hate, these past few weeks and especially yesterday when i was at the end of myself! making very bad choices etc..
I just needed to share this song. It connects so well with all that we have been talking about. It’s new to me called “Go and Sin No More” by Rebecca St. James. So encouraging!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wj72FbOJEOU
Great message!
3. Preparation for watching The Tree of Life
A. The movie opens with Job 38:4. Read this verse in context. What point is God making to Job with this verse and with the ensuing questions in the close of this magnificent book?
I AM GOD. I am the Alpha and the Omega, trust me. I know exactly what I am doing, and I am Good.
B. Suffering can turn our hearts to stone if we do not trust God, but God has given us far more evidence than Job ever had for us to trust Him. Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes.
Look at what the Word says about Him. One of the Moody programs Dee did, on the God of All Comfort, she said look at what Scripture teaches about:
His Heart—that I can trust Him, remind myself of the Truth—His Love, His Power…
History—He has always been faithful, remember the ways He has answered very specific prayers, met my tangible and emotional needs, showered me with blessings, and
Heaven— to talk to my soul about the promised future with Christ.
Elizabeth, yes, I remember this-His heart, History and Heaven-I almost forgot! Thanks for that!
we are not longer able to get CDs from netflix and our library doesn’t have it and our red box does not have it so I have no way to get the movie:(
Cyndi, I was able to rent it from Blockbuster but it was 2.99 for one day. I would have liked to see it more than once.
on line? all our blockbusters have closed:(
Cyndi, no we still have a storefront Blockbuster but it does seem to be on its way out. I don’t know if they still do online business.
Hey all I am really needing some prayer. I am really struggling with maybe approval idol. Not sure but I need my thoughts to be okay with this. Be satisfied in only Him. My heart is hurting greatly and I need to know how to move forward in love. I have been down for some weeks now. It is not a mystery. People know I am in need, people know how sick I am at church. However, tangibly no one seems to help. One person did do a meal and I really appreciated it so much but several asked and I even expressed the need and how hard it was but they did nothing. It hurts my heart so much to know how much I pour in there and then when I have a need I am overlooked. Also when I had surgery a while back the same thing happened. If people have babies people are rising up all over to get them meals. Then in my small group right in front of me as I was so very sick they were discussing needs that a lady may have when her daughter was going to have surgery how once they took up money for a house cleaner for someone, etc. All these ideas yet did nothing for me. Well typing this helped me release some of my tears from the pain. I just don’t understand. It hurts so deeply how people can just overlook you when you are right in front of them so sick. It is so sad. I just wonder if God wants me to help some how so others do not have to experience this. Sometimes I am tired of being the one though to start these things sometimes it would be nice to be the one to be ministered too you know. 🙁 Well thanks for hearing me and please pray I don’t again fall into cynicism or harden my heart toward people. I don’t serve to get anything in return you just think if you fall someone will be there to pick you up from the church. I was deeply touched by my home school group at the end of this they really were loving and concerned and offered much help, I mean meals, transporting kids, even helping with a road trip I may need to take out of state for further testing. These are homeschool moms who really dont have time to do this but they did. I thank God for that but where was my church? Ok I am done. Love you all thanks for listening.
Your post is a great reminder to me to keep my eyes open for those who need to be remembered. I hope it helped the healing process. I wish I was close enough to bring you a meal-I love to cook! Hugs and prayers you will recover well.
Angela — I do hurt for you. I suspect it is part of the reticence of being near those who are suffering — it’s easier to go when a baby is born. They may also see you as so competent. But it does hurt.
We are more sinful than we dare to think, and we do not love well. I found Elizabeth’s testimony on forgiving so helpful — maybe it would help you. I’m glad you shared with us so we can pray.
Thanks you two! I want to try to find this on Elizabeth Elliot. I have fresh tears again reading this. I just cannot believe how painful I am letting this be. It is part of not letting me be walled up and hard like I like to be so I do not get hurt. But no more.
It is interesting about saying people do not like to enter into suffering. or be near those who are. Maybe that is my mission. I do have eyes to see. Sweet Hannah (with aspergers) helps me see too. I just want to live with lepers you know? But I know since I have a family I cannot. Since I am too weak I cannot. God knows my heart. Thanks so much and for the prayers. I spoke and cried with my husband today. It helped some too.
oh sweet Angela, I really hurt for you reading this. A friend and I were discussing this issue in regards to her church and similar feelings she is having…anyway, I think so often there is just an ignorance of what to do, of how to care, of not wanting to intrude…maybe more than a lack of caring–but that doesn’t take away your real and legitimate pain. I remember the Nancy Guthrie talk Dee led us to on hurting people in the church. It is so hard in your position as you have had such a leadership role, and invested so much, and if things were reversed I’m sure you’d be the one showing so much care. I will pray that hearts would be awakened, reminded,that you would be cared for. It is what the body is intended to do. And if it is appropriate for you to let your needs be known again, I will pray you have wisdom.
I too wish I could come and sit shiva with you, I will pray others near you will come and experience that blessing.
Thank you! I knew you all would understand. I really need prayer not to harden my heart. I also have to teach that faith without works is dead in James to a group that I pour into who did not do the same for me. Pray I can overcome in love. His love. I need to be in HIM to love well. I too know I am sinful beyond what I can even comprehend. I cannot let the enemy have me here. It is critcal. Especially after such a wonderful intimacy time with God. Love you friend. I know you all would be there and the only ones I really know to talk to about it. 🙂
this happens to me all the time, i think it is because we look like we have it all together….even when we are sick people just think we have it covered. i know when i was sick everyones thought someone else was taking care of things. I did have people send meals for a week after we got home with Lily.
its so hard, I wanted to scream….cant you see im drowning here. i have older kids now so it is much easier but its just hard to not be taken care of. i wish i was close:(
So sorry it happened to u too cyndi. I wish we were all close. 🙂 what are you dealing with Cyndi? I cannot remember if you have mentioned it. I am no better today so it leaves me frustrated. How long I wonder? But He will get us through.
6. WHAT CHRISTIAN THEMES STOOD OUT TO YOU FROM THE MOVIE AND WHY? The way of Grace and way of Control. You can chose one way.
7. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT “THE WAY OF GRACE” AND “THE WAY OF NATURE” IN THE OPENING? COMMENT, IF YOU DO. I forget specifics on this/
8. THERE IS A KALIEDOSCOPE OF IMAGES FROM THE CLOSE OF JOB AND THEREFORE CREATION IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE MOVIE. (NOTE THAT THEY TAKE PLACE IN THE SAME AREA THE BOYS PLAYED.) WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU AND WHY? FAVORITE IMAGES? It was very interesting. I did like the dinosaurs it was an interesting thing to include.
9. The mother represents grace, but grace does not mean licentiousness or freedom from the law. Find examples of when she talked sternly to her eldest son about his abuse. When you are aware of a parent’s love (or God’s love) why is obedience more likely? Oh I forget this but still feel she could have been a bit more stern in places. Yet I wonder why I thought that? Could she really or am I resistant to that kind of grace in parenting?
10. What do you think the father’s idol was and why? How was it bringing destruction? Control. thought he had to make his own way. Take it. For money. To provide, have things, position, power, it was taking over and taking him away from family and relationship with them. They were pulling away because they knew his heart was not true. I was sad how they celebrated at his leaving. I understood though.
11. What awakened the father to the futility of his idol? What evidence of repentance did you see in the father in his words to his wife after the son died? Life was so short/The stupidity of the piano pages and criticism. Also I saw some when he lost his job and was talking to the son about that too.
12. Do you think the mother could have handled the situation any differently? Why or why not? Oh I forget this part. Didn’t she just scream? Call the father? Oh I forget.
13. What did you think the closing scene represented? Was it Heaven? I was kind of confused? If not the door then represented loosing your idols to the way of grace??
14. Describe the forgiveness scene between the two brothers. Comment. It was sweet. I really liked it and their tenderness. YOu could tell it was real. They did love one another.
15. Why do you think the movie was called “The Tree of Life?” Maybe because of creation and how life goes on. We are just a small part of it. There is so much else all around us from all time. We are just a blip.
16. What was your take-a-way from the movie — positive or negative? It was definitely artistic. It was strange because of that. It made it different and I liked that. It was hard to follow it all. I did not understand it all. I did like how it portrayed their searching for God. WHen did you find me>question…etc.Our lives are stories and we are interconnected in them. God uses all things and it is grace. Interesting. I am not sure if it was positive or negative. I know that does not make sense. It is one of those movies that just makes you take a pause and think.
6. WHAT CHRISTIAN THEMES STOOD OUT TO YOU FROM THE MOVIE AND WHY? Creation, Family, Scripture verse, Grace. Beauty of the earth. Talking to God, Seeking God.
7. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT “THE WAY OF GRACE” AND “THE WAY OF NATURE” IN THE OPENING? COMMENT, IF YOU DO. No, sorry.
8. THERE IS A KALIEDOSCOPE OF IMAGES FROM THE CLOSE OF JOB AND THEREFORE CREATION IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE MOVIE. (NOTE THAT THEY TAKE PLACE IN THE SAME AREA THE BOYS PLAYED.) WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU AND WHY? FAVORITE IMAGES? The fetus, Tons of water images, The heavens. My favorite images were the ones I grew up with like drinking from a hose, playing hide and seek, firecrackers, swimming, neighborhood kids,
9. The mother represents grace, but grace does not mean licentiousness or freedom from the law. Find examples of when she talked sternly to her eldest son about his abuse. When you are aware of a parent’s love (or God’s love) why is obedience more likely? Because you don’t want to hurt or disappoint you parents or God.
10. What do you think the father’s idol was and why? How was it bringing destruction? Power/control. He took out his anger on them and they grew angry with him as well.
11. What awakened the father to the futility of his idol? What evidence of repentance did you see in the father in his words to his wife after the son died? The death of his son. He seemed genuinely sorry for the way he treated him.
12. Do you think the mother could have handled the situation any differently? Why or why not? If you mean the way her husband parented I will say that in the 50’s women were meeker and quieter when it came to standing up to their husbands. I’m not sure she felt safe enough to say much. I think she did her best to make up for her husbands anger issues and was putting up with lots to keep the family together.
13. What did you think the closing scene represented? I guess an end to his struggle, it seemed like he reconciled his childhood.
14. Describe the forgiveness scene between the two brothers. Comment. I loved that scene. It was very sweet. I thought the parts of the movie that were the best were the actual storyline as opposed to the first hour of images.
15. Why do you think the movie was called “The Tree of Life?” We all have a family tree and we all have questions about where we came from and why. All families struggle and hopefully come together.
16. What was your take-a-way from the movie — positive or negative? Once the movie moved into the storyline I really enjoyed it. I felt a gratefulness wash over me for the family I had. It was painful to see the children mistreated. I had loving parents who treated me with kindness.
I’m trying to catch up reading everyone’s posts. My computor was off for 2 days:( Needed a new motem. Didn’t keep me from praying for all of you, tho! It’s only 12:54 am here!
It’s great to read your reflections on the movie. Here are a few of mine. I wish I could have heard all the questions from the stream of consciousness, but caught more the 2nd time.
Very few movies deal with the big questions of life — but this one tries.
First — the question of suffering. This middle son was the one who was more likely to choose the right: “I don’t want to fight.” Who finally spoke up against his father’s abuse in defense of his brothers and mother: “Be quiet.”
Who trustingly put his finger on the BB gun when asked to by his big brother. Who loved music and played, delighting his father. So — why is this son taken? (I identified so — I asked God — why take Steve — there are so many rotten fathers, husbands, and doctors…) But then! That kaleidoscope of images from creation — God, knows what He is doing. The symphonic music. Breathtaking. The close of the movie not quite as effective, but I think it represented future hope of reconciliation and trust in God’s ultimate goodness — and the mother says, “I give my son to You” and it looks like the Spirit is helping her as she lifts up her hands. (I wept at the hope of being together with loved ones and at letting go — trusting God.) Again, the symphonic music.
The other great theme is the problem of evil. And it was interesting to see how dark the eldest son became, even finding a way to hurt his mother by taking her slip…in the grasp of sin and Satan — and yet not beyond the grasp of grace. Nature is strong, which was demonstrated again and again — the father overpowering, the big dinosaur overpowering — yet, as it said in the beginning, grace will win — if you submit to grace, you will ultimately have victory.
Thanks for those reflections. It helps alot.
6. WHAT CHRISTIAN THEMES STOOD OUT TO YOU FROM THE MOVIE AND WHY?
I have to say, I love how Dee summarized it above. Those themes stuck out to me as well-I loved how she put the main themes together.
It has been a week since I have seen the movie, so I am glad I took notes, but I have forgotten some things that were fresh on my mind. 🙁
7. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT “THE WAY OF GRACE” AND “THE WAY OF NATURE” IN THE OPENING? COMMENT, IF YOU DO.
I wrote it down, but missed a sentence of what was said about Grace: “Grace doesn’t try to please itself…It accepts insults and injuries. Nature pleases itself and wants others to please it-to Lord it over them and to have its own way.
8. THERE IS A KALIEDOSCOPE OF IMAGES FROM THE CLOSE OF JOB AND THEREFORE CREATION IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE MOVIE. (NOTE THAT THEY TAKE PLACE IN THE SAME AREA THE BOYS PLAYED.) WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU AND WHY? FAVORITE IMAGES?
I didn’t catch that it was the same area the boys played in-wow..Kind of changes things a bit. For some reason it was the Dinosaurs and the beauty and wonder of the Milky ways and the Galaxies. To me that showed the Glory of God-so magnificent-hard to contain or fathom-a mystery. I think this theme meant to me that there is sin and death and has been since sin entered the world with Adam and Eve so even people who walk the way of Grace will die-but God set into motion life, and He has redeemed sin and death-and in the end He will redeem heaven and Earth and make it better than even those boys knew when they played in that forest.
9. The mother represents grace, but grace does not mean licentiousness or freedom from the law. Find examples of when she talked sternly to her eldest son about his abuse. When you are aware of a parent’s love (or God’s love) why is obedience more likely?
She was stern but he was assured of her love-the history of her love. His heart was softened by her love and he was more willing to turn and obey her. I don’t think he wanted to disappoint her or hurt her.
I think my assurance of God’s love does lead to repentance and obedience. I can trust Him because I know He loves me and I know He is Holy and can’t make mistakes-He knows what is best for me and does what is best, even if I do suffer-He uses it for my good.
10. What do you think the father’s idol was and why? How was it bringing destruction?
Control. It had encased him and enslaved him. It was destroying his kids love for him and destroying him. It damaged his boys emotionally for life and set in motion a heritage of passing it down. He hurt his wife-abused her physically too which messed up her emotionally. It is like he was killing his family from the inside out.
11. What awakened the father to the futility of his idol? What evidence of repentance did you see in the father in his words to his wife after the son died?
I think it was when he lost his job. He sat down on the grass and said, “I dishonored it all and didn’t notice the glory-I’m a foolish man.” He said he tithed and did everything right-went to church every Sunday-and look he is jobless. I didn’t note what he said to his wife after his son died. I did notice repentance though.
On a side note-did you remember the woman who consoled the mom when she was grieving? She literally told her, well at least you have two boys- but it was harsher than that. I think she was trying to help the mom get over it faster, but she acted as if the boy that died had no significance. It was like he was akin to an animal dying. I thought it was an unloving approach to someone who is grieving.
12. Do you think the mother could have handled the situation any differently? Why or why not?
Yes I do. She should have taken the boys out of that home and separated from her husband early on. He was both physically and emotionally abusive. I think there should have been a rescue there.
13. What did you think the closing scene represented?
I am thinking that Grace leads to victory-I don’t recall the last few seconds of the film though.
Rebecca, your response to #12 caught me right between the eyes. I don’t mean that in a bad way but I have to say that I have been down that road! It was after a season of verbal abuse from my husband to my son that I sensed a call from the Lord to take Joey and leave. It changed my husband remarkably and I do not say that it was the wrong thing to do. What I do say is that it was not nearly as simple as I thought it would be. It hurt, hurt, hurt, everyone involved because the father son relationship is complicated and so important. The most important thing for me was the clear call from the Lord. It is just too dangerous without that. And honestly, because of where I have been, I did not think he was all that bad as a father. He spent lots of time with his sons. He talked to them about what he thought was important. In the beginning I thought Mr O’Brien was a pretty good father actually. I didn’t like some of the things he taught them but I was a little surprised when he went off the deep end like he did. I even defended the father to my husband. I need to watch the movie again but that was my first take.
Anne, Yes I agree I think he did love his kids and I think I may have answered a bit too harshly-without Grace. I think in that day and age it would have been hard to get the boys out of that situation unless it was egregious and their lives were in danger, and as you said that is a very hard decision to make and can’t be taken lightly. I think ideally removing them from that situation would have been good for them, but sometimes the ideal thing isn’t an option in some families. I don’t think the wife and her son’s lives were threatened-in that case, yes leaving immediately is necessary, but in this case perhaps not. Something to think about! 🙂
Rebecca, I did not mean to be so blunt. I’m sorry. You make a very valid point. It is a question I have grappled with like I said. I guess that is why the rapid fire response from me. Mr. O’Brien was not a very good father but his love for the boys was irreplaceable. His abuse was very ugly but was it such that social services would have removed the children had he been reported? Maybe he would have been better as a father if the children did not live with him all the time. But my experience has been that when boys get to be teens, fathers are necessary and as a mother I must have a very good reason for taking that away from them.
I think Jack was a pretty bad boy and he got worse when his father was away on that trip. Mom trying to deal with him alone was not working very well. This is like a broken record but I need to watch it again with all of these thoughts in mind.
Oh Anne, it is no biggie for me-I didn’t take you being blunt at all! We are just discussing this topic and you do make some great points! Decisions like that as well as other decisions people make seem real easy when one is looking from the outside in-yet when you are in their shoes and have to make that choice-it isn’t so cut and dry, so your thoughts are definitely well taken!
14. Describe the forgiveness scene between the two brothers. Comment.
This is when I wept. The boy who forgave was a picture of Jesus. The boy who was forgiven said this: “What was it you showed me, I see it was you. Always you.” I think he was talking to God-remember in the beginning of the movie before his friend drowned he asked God if he was watching him and that he wants to know He is and he wants to see what God sees.
I wept because it brought to remembrance when my older brother was Jesus like that to me when I didn’t know God yet-It was God showing me His love through my brother and the power of His love usurped the power of my brother’s sin nature so much that it caused me to come to know Jesus. This love wasn’t of my brother-believe me! 🙂
15. Why do you think the movie was called “The Tree of Life?”
How God has set up a theme from the beginning of time until now-like a tree that grows forever-leaves form and then they die and new ones spring forth-God has set into motion life-He is sovereign and everything fits together for His purpose and Glory-even ‘the way of nature and Grace’.
16. What was your take-a-way from the movie — positive or negative?
I think I gave this away early on. 😉 Positive-I think my take away is to trust that there is a mystery to suffering that I will never know-but I can trust Him in it and be encouraged in the end heaven and Earth will be restored.
Wonderful observations Rebecca.
Did you hear the father also say, After I never missed a day of work, I tithed every Sunday…
Oh yes that really hit me-he was steeped into works-righteousness/legalism in all areas of his life-I think perhaps his control idol blinded him from understanding Grace. Maybe he thought his job, his children were all given to him due to his good works, rather than gifts from God given by His Grace.
You know, it kind of reminded me of the wilderness-God took Israel into the wilderness in Hosea 2-She saw how worthless her idols were after she was stripped of what they gave her. I think this is true with the father-it took him being in the wilderness to see the worthlessness of his control idol and his works.
Catching up on everyone’s posts!
Angela,
I am so sorry about what you posted above about no one from church sensing your very real needs right now and stepping up to help. I am glad your homeschool group is helping, but yes, I can understand your disappointment and your questioning of “where is my church?” I also wish I lived close to bring you a meal! I don’t know, is there even one woman in your small group at church that you could express your feelings to? Maybe there is misunderstanding, thinking that your husband or kids or family member’s are already helping you – could it be they don’t understand how desperate your need is? Or just how really ill you are? I sincerely hope that is the reason for their not helping; and that if you can communicate to one or two in that group honestly, they will be glad to help you.
Thanks Susan. The sad part is my homegroup knows we have no family in the area, and they saw how very sick I was I could barely walk or even think well last week. 🙁 I think they know. But the important part I think is I overcome it in loving and the way of grace and help others see. It still hurts though. Your care is helpful in helping me process through.
http://youtu.be/X-afZJ9_TIM
I want to love HIM from the inside out, even when i stumble and fall.
my heart and my soul, i give YOU control, consume me from the inside out….
i think this song speaks of the journey we are all on.
Cyndi, Thanks for this song-I listened to it before I went to take the boys to school-wanted to let you know before I leave for work!
I also read the Christianity Today article this morning. Here are my thoughts:
The author seems to be tackling what I would call “the question of disappointment”. He begins with an example from his childhood; the submarine. Then he moves to the unreasonable expectations of advertising; how things are peddled to us with the promise that from things we will get ultimate fulfillment of our very real human desires; when in fact, things never can deliver that. I think he then feels there is a problem when the church uses those same marketing strategies and applies them to spirituality. He talks about Christianity without scars, without the hard work of following Jesus. He doesn’t name it, but perhaps he is thinking of the “prosperity gospel” that many churches seem to preach? Where nothing bad will happen to you, you just name it and claim it and God is going to bless you. He says there is no place for a person like Job. While he describes how Job’s path was blocked by God, the author didn’t go into what we learned on this blog when we studies Job; how God revealed Himself to Job so that Job ended up really knowing this God He had worshipped all his life. Job got real intimacy with God.
He then talks about the young man being told by a youth pastor “to date Jesus”, and says that is like saying that intimacy with Jesus comes through the same mechanisms which sustain human relationships: presence, touch, conversation.
He kind of lost me after that. I thought he made some excellent points, but he almost seemed to take the “presence, touch, conversation” literally; going on to explain that we can’t really see or touch Jesus or audible hear His voice; maybe that’s what he meant when he said we will need to wait for that ultimate fulfillment. That is obvious; but he didn’t talk about things like inner joy, or God “talking” to us through His word or bringing a verse to our minds, or what Keller talked about in his sermon about the apostle John suddenly bubbling over when he talked about “Behold, what manner of love is this?”
I also didn’t understand his saying that we cant comprehend anything about the personality of Jesus.
Dee, I thought your comment on the article was very well said and while you argued a different point, you were respectful.
Excellent review, Susan. thanks so much
Susan, yes this was excellent! I liked the reference to John bubbling over in “beholding” the love of Christ. that made me think- God wants us to grow in our faith. Does growth merely mean ‘knowing more’ or does it go from the head to the heart-How does it go from the head to the heart? I think when scripture talks about the mature who are better able to discern good and evil-that discernment is wrought out of intimacy with God. We can’t ‘grow’ apart from intimacy with God. I think of Ann VosKamp’s book-Jesus’ personality is brought out in creation too, in our brothers and sisters in the Lord, as well as the Word. I will stop..I need to go to work! 🙂
I also read the article and agree that this is an excellent review, Susan. I also wondered if the writer was concerned about the “name it, claim it” perspective. He is warning those seeking physical pleasures from God NOW, but giving no understanding of the benefits of truly seeking God’s honour and holiness. It is very unfortunate that he has not had deeper experiences with God to show that there is much more we can know of Jesus now. We do not need to wait for heaven to experience God’s spiritual touch or Jesus’ personality. He is basically saying, ‘Hang in there and wait for heaven’ which, unfortunately, is what many Christians believe when they face suffering. I myself thought that was all there was for many years.
Has anyone read Larry Crabb’s “66 Love Letters: A Conversation With God That Invites You Into His Story”? I think Crabb’s book gives a much deeper perspective on seeing God in suffering. It explores each book of the Bible as a letter from God to you with the scarlet thread of Jesus woven into each book. It is a deep book and slow going, but it is a wonderful perspective on the drama of Scripture and struggles to understand the pain of the people of Israel and why God allows it and uses it. I have only finished the Old Testament part and have learned so much about HOW IMPORTANT understanding the Old Testament is. The OT gives so much richness to who Jesus Christ is and why he came. Oh, how he loves us when we have done nothing to deserve it and given him so much pain!
I haven’t read that one, but am so glad for your recommendation of it, Diane!
I have the book and have read through Judges– you are right, it isn’t the kind of book you read through quickly–it is a great one to read leisurely and allow the things he says to sink in. I am really enjoying it and seeing things in the OT that I don’t think I have seen before.
3. Preparation for watching the Tree of Life.
A. The movie opens up with Job 38:4. Read this verse in context. What point is God making to Job with this verse and with the ensuing questions in the close of this magnificent book?
Job has been questioning God, and God replies, “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.”
God is making the point that Job cannot even begin to understand the “why” of the questions he is asking; he is not the Creator, he is the creature.
B. Suffering can turn our hearts to stone if we do not trust God, but God has given us far more evidence than Job ever had for us to trust Him. Name a few things that you can cling to when suffering comes.
When we studied John 11, where Jesus comes to Mary and Martha after Lazarus died, and the sermon by Keller on The Furious Love of Jesus, it really helped me discover God’s heart about suffering, grief, and death. How Jesus took the time to enter into Mary’s grief and wept with her, even though He knew in a few minutes, her brother would be returned to her. How Jesus took on death, knowing that it was His death sentence to raise Lazarus from the dead. How he was weeping also for all the funerals in the future, for all the grief and sorrow where there would be no miracle. It helped me to understand how God feels about things like my nephew’s death.
4.
“Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.” (Romans 6:12-14 NIV)
In terms of our Stonecutter study, you often have the choice during the day to present yourself to your idol or to trust God. What promise can you find in verse 14 and what does this tell you about “the way of nature/idols” and “the way of grace/God”?
I do see the theme of idolatry throughout this passage; “offering parts of your body to sin”. We are all ‘worshipping at some altar’ throughout our day; either to our gods/idols/self or at God’s altar. The promise is that because I am saved by grace, Jesus has forever broken the chains of sin; it is no longer my master. I choose to sin, but really, am no longer compelled to sin; I am no longer enslaved to sin. It is a choice now. The “natural man”, who has not yet been redeemed, is under the law, which he cannot keep. This person is just acting natural; having idols in his life, sinning because he is a slave to sin; offering his body to do sinful acts. I have been set free from this way of life.
We rented the movie a few weeks ago when Dee first mentioned it, and I had hoped to watch it again before now, but haven’t been able to get it. I also wish I had read the review Dee posted first, I do think it would have helped me grasp it more (maybe!)
4. What promise can you find in verse 14 and what does this tell you about “the way of nature/idols” and “the way of grace/God.”
The promise is that freedom is REAL, it is available to us, but it is a choice. God’s grace gives me the choice to instead turn to Him, rest in Him, trust Him.
5. There is a point in the movie where the eldest son is becoming abusive like his father and he quotes Romans – I do not do what I want to do, but I do what I hate. How have you experienced the power of sin spiraling you down — and how has God been able to reach down and rescue you?
Staying with my “theme” of unforgiveness, my tendency when hurt is to retreat. Since I was a young child, I can remember running to my room and just waiting on my bed until someone would come and pursue me, or apologize if necessary. As I grew older, I continued this form of self-protection. And that’s it—the lie. I told myself I was justified, I’d been hurt and needed protection. I still tend towards this. If a friend or my husband hurts my feelings, I am tempted to retreat, go cold, put distance there. This was still a strong struggle when I first began studying under Dee. I knew it wasn’t right, I mean forgiveness is such a basic Christian value, it felt shameful to admit I struggled so much with it. But I am a great justifier. I felt my reasons were valid enough and in the name of self-protection, I was being smart.
But God wouldn’t let this go in me. He has pursued me on this sin. He has wanted me free of it, to trust in Him, not my self-protective techniques. The more I see my own sinfulness, my need for His grace, the price He paid, the more my hands just go weak in the grasp of my idol. My body relaxes and I have no choice, no real safe place to hide, other than in His Arms.
This is so beautiful, Elizabeth. I have learned so much from you, and Tammy, about real forgiveness. I see I need much work in this area of my life, to submit to God. I can say or feel I have forgiven someone, like my husband, for example, yet I find my attitudes and actions don’t show it – I retreat, withdraw, put up a self-protective wall, act cool and distant; all the while feeling justified.
I love this, “The more I see my own sinfulness, my need for His grace, the price He paid, the more my hands just go weak in the grasp of my idol.”
This brought tears to my eyes, Elizabeth. I see this in myself as well. When I am hurt, the walls go up and often stay up. I feel justified in protecting myself. The work God is doing with you in this area of unforgiveness is such a powerful testimony of the grace and wonder of God. Your testimony “He has wanted me free of it, to trust in Him, not my self-protective techniques. The more I see my own sinfulness, my need for His grace, the price He paid, the more my hands just go weak in the grasp of my idol. My body relaxes and I have no choice, no real safe place to hide, other than in His Arms” is so beautiful. Lord, let it be true for me as well.
Sorry my answers are short and I can’t get to the rest until later today–
6. WHAT CHRISTIAN THEMES STOOD OUT TO YOU FROM THE MOVIE AND WHY?
Our own powerlessness to control our sin; forgiveness; creation…and the Truth the His ways are not our ways, He is in control of all things
7. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT “THE WAY OF GRACE” AND “THE WAY OF NATURE” IN THE OPENING? COMMENT, IF YOU DO.
I got this much written down: “Nature is willful, it only wants to please itself, to have its own way….grace doesn’t try to please itself; it accepts being slighted, accepts insults and injuries.”
8. THERE IS A KALIEDOSCOPE OF IMAGES FROM THE CLOSE OF JOB AND THEREFORE CREATION IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE MOVIE. (NOTE THAT THEY TAKE PLACE IN THE SAME AREA THE BOYS PLAYED.) WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU AND WHY? FAVORITE IMAGES?
The POWER of God. I loved all the images, it was incredibly well done in my opinion. I loved the water scenes most.
So some really good things…1 this sermon is so good and spoke to right where I was at. http://sermons.redeemer.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=access.download&ID=1022876 It is a $2.50 one but so thankful. Also, I wrote up our proposal for women’s ministry which included a need for ministry of compassion to people. My situation helped me see the deep need. I am thankful to God for this. Also, in about an hour I am leaving for a girls conference with my daughter. Appreciate prayer. She is struggling with a control idol. Very much demanding of me to be packed, etc, etc, I think she is insecure though. I know she really wnats this weekend. So pray I have strength and it will be fun. I have a driver another mom and her best friend. I just want us to grow together and in the Lord.
Love you all praying your weekends are blessed!!
His,
Angela
praying for you this weekend Angela–special time for you and your daughter, and strength for you–wow–you are truly inspiring!
Thank u so much Elizabeth for prayer. God worked a great thing between us and broke through. A great barrier. I pray it stays that way in the home. She is jealous of her sister and it boils down to her feeling there is not enough time for her since her sis hasso many special needs. Her love language is quality time.we will try to balance and make it work. My sickness is not helping either. But I think we are understanding each other.
please pray for me. as winter starts so does my husbands depression that he refuses to admit is depression. I just drains me of joy when i am around him. im trying so hard to love him with Gods love, but he is just so neg….right now its about the fact that i am going to chicago to be with my best friend and sister for 2 days. he is very envious of me and is saying that he never gets to do fun things. I try to get him to do fun things all the time but he will not plan ahaid so they never happen. if I did not plan a trip we would not go on one. and he only wants to go with me, not any friends, well with 5 kids that is really hard. I would LOVE for him to get away but he has convinced himself that he cant. I don’t no how to explain it but it is just very hard. I NEED a break, I NEED time with my best friend who i have not spent time with just the 2 of us in over 15 years. but i have a hard time enjoying it when paul is so neg. about it…i asked him if i could go weeks ago and he said yes and now all the plans are made. i just don’t know what to do and the stress is really getting to me.
praying Cyndi!
9. The mother represents grace, but grace does not mean licentiousness or freedom from the law. Find examples of when she talked sternly to her eldest son about his abuse. When you are aware of a parent’s love (or God’s love) why is obedience more likely?
I guess I missed when she talked sternly to Jack about his abuse. I admit I had to leave a few scenes to just my husband, just hard for me to watch the father at times. I do see how obedience is more likely when there is love behind it, because the love allows us to trust. This is a bit silly of an example, but on my mind—the other night we played the “trust fall’ game with the kids. We stood behind them and let them fall backwards into our arms. My one that struggles more with trust was hesitant, but did it. (My BIG mistake was when I actually got my husband to fall back on me!) But it was a good lesson in trusting—they knew we loved them and would not ask them to fall if we weren’t going to catch them.
10. What do you think the father’s idol was and why? How was it bringing destruction?
He was consumed with power and control. One scene that sticks out was when he criticized the older brother for letting the screen door close, and then he makes him close it quietly a lot of times. I think he may have had an approval idol too, like when he was showing the boys where rich people lived and I forgot his exact line but something like they see themselves as the 4th person in the Trinity. You could see in little Jack’s eyes, all he heard was I must succeed to be acceptable, to be worthy of my father’s love. I could see such emptiness in the father, and trapped-like he knew no other way…he had probably been raised similarly…but the destruction. The pain in their hearts, seeing too how he favored the middle son. The fear of those children—never knowing what to expect from him—such painful uncertainty. There was a sense that they could not breathe around him.
11. What awakened the father to the futility of his idol? What evidence of repentance did you see in the father in his words to his wife after the son died?
After his son dies, he said he regrets being too harsh on his son. And when he loses he job, it breaks him—he said something like “I’m nothing…I didn’t notice the glory.”
12. Do you think the mother could have handled the situation any differently? Why or why not?
I wish she had. I wish she had been strong enough to stand up against her husband’s abusive ways. I wish she had protected the boys more. Could she have? In that time, I’m sure it was not likely. Her love did show through, and ultimately redeemed, it was just hard to see how much pain was endured for all.
13. What did you think the closing scene represented?
I’m really not intellectual enough for these questions! I guess I saw it as coming full circle, maybe at least a preview of the new Earth. Also in Jack’s vision-the family experienced Love, Grace, restoration, forgiveness, healing.
14. Describe the forgiveness scene between the two brothers. Comment.
That was one of my favorite scenes–he reflects on the day in the woods when he hurt his brother and was offered grace, forgiveness.
15. Why do you think the movie was called “The Tree of Life?”
OK, just thinking out loud here—I guess saying that Life is A tree. We coming from one beginning—God creating Adam, the root– and there are decisions at every growth point to go, branch off, one way or the other. A tree reproduces, each new tree has something from the parent, it’s seed, and yet each tree is uniquely it’s own. Hmm, too brain foggy today to get much deeper, will come back to this!
16. What was your take-a-way from the movie — positive or negative?
It was an incredible movie. I loved that it risked dealing with life and death, sin and grace…so deeply. I wish I had read the review first, and that I didn’t try to start watching it at 10pm! That made it a bit overwhelming, I knew there was so much to take in. I do plan to rent it again when it’s available. Another reason it was hard one for me to watch—and I usually lean towards the deep, heavy movies…is that honestly, the middle son who dies looked SO much like my son, and had a lot of his personality. That sounds a bit surface-y but it just made me extra-emotional. And the realness of the portrayal of sin was so well done, but hard for me to swallow.
I did really like the narrations—loved the rhetorical questions—where were you?….And when the un-named boy died in the lake/swimming pool—Jack says something about was he bad? Will you take me too? The voice-overs were the most powerful parts to me. I wish I could have a text of the words.
Oh, also liked when Jack was on his bed and prayed to be obedient…and mixed in were questions to God. I think that’s when he said I want to see like You see.
You saw things I didn’t which I love Elizabeth.
I thought my 12 year old grand-daughter old enough and tried to watch with her, pausing to explain — and she was so bored I finally said, “Want to do something else?”
She said, “YES, PLEASE!”
I am having a hard time with the questions about the tree of life… I didnt understand the movie and watched it twice to see if i would understand it better the second time.. I had a very hard time sitting through it.. it wasnt my type of movie.. but i am reading everyones answers so i am understanding it a bit more but i dont want to copy everyones answers!
Well, dear Meg. I’d say twice is enough. You are a trooper, dear one!
3a. I think that all of the book of Job up to this point has been asking God why He has allowed what Job sees as injustice. How could he see it as anything but an outright attack on his person? So God takes the position that Job is equal in power to Him and questions Him as such. Job has been presumptuous. He cannot answer even one question. The point is that we can question God all we want but never will we really understand His ways. We just have to trust Him.
b. I love Elizabeth’s answer to this. I can trust His heart for me, His history of faithfulness and His promise of heaven with Him.
c. In verse 14 I am promised freedom. If I were under the law(nature) I would be condemned but under grace I am free. I think there are 2 kinds of freedom represented here, freedom from penalty and from sin’s power over me. It does not make me obey its passions if I do not let it reign in my body. How do I accomplish this? I present myself to God as one who has been brought from death to life.
4. In verse 14 I am promised freedom. If I were under the law(nature) I would be condemned but under grace I am free. I think there are 2 kinds of freedom represented here, freedom from penalty and from sin’s power over me. It does not make me obey its passions if I do not let it reign in my body. How do I accomplish this? I present myself to God as one who has been brought from death to life. I remember the gospel.
5. I experienced the power of sin taking me down in the enslavement of an idol that I did not see at all. Spiraling down is a great description of my condition. I picture God reaching down into that whirlpool and disrupting it. The flow of my life was taking me down. His rescue seemed like a disruption and very painful but it got my attention and changed my course. It seems that the death of this son did the same for the father. I don’t remember the sequence of events but I think the job loss came first but it did not bring true repentance.
6. The greatest Christian theme that stood out to me is the human condition of enslavement to idols. It explains Paul’s lament in Romans. It is the way of nature because it is our natural unregenerate condition.
For the rest of the questions I answered what I could but many things I just don’t remember.
12.I think the mother was wonderful because she demonstrated grace so well. I really need to see the movie again because I wonder if there were some things she could have done along the way to prevent the takeover of the father’s control idol.
15. I think it is called the Tree of Life because families grow like trees. A branch grows and effects how the rest of the tree grows. If not pruned there is not much that can be done to change the growth. A branch can be cut off but the scar remains and the beauty of the tree is marred.
16. My take away from the movie was positive. God is able to grow us in spite of ourselves, as He grew the father. It was sad that the son died but I had the sense that of the brothers he was the one ready to meet the Lord. I remember thinking what a good thing it was not Jack. Not just because his brother appeared to be more Christlike but because he needed to grow and I believe that he will as his father did. The fact that he remained haunted as an adult is a good sign of that.
Love your thoughts on the son who died and the title!
Can anyone tell me where I can find the movie Tree of Life? My library doesn’t have it and I don’t get Netflix. We don’t have a movie store in my town anymore. Is it somewhere on the web?
Laura, Meg mentioned this to someone else earlier. You can rent and watch it online at: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A2858905011%2Cp_drm_rights%3ARental&field-drm_rights=Rental&page=1
Hope it helps! 🙂
thank you so much for your prayers!! things went really well tonight paul and i were able to pray together and things seemed to really calm down after that
Thanks for telling us! That’s such a praise. Have a good time — I think you will now!
so glad to hear this cyndi! praying you have a wonderful time away and for your husband too with the kids!
I really enjoyed the comments about the movie and now I think I would like to see it again. Anne, you gave a great answer as to the title! A couple more things: The middle son that seemed to keep giving grace and trust when it was undeserved like his mother’s example. Something inside made him want relationship with his older sibling. The forgiveness he offered was precious-so easy to give. I thought the woman (Possibly her mother) who was suppose to be comforting after the son died needed a lesson in sitting shiva! And yet look at the grace filled response- I would have been kicking and screaming! One thing that I didn’t understand was burying her slip and laying clothes on the bed. Was he fighting an internal battle not wanting to receive grace from his mother?
Enjoying your comments too Kim.
I think it was her mother who failed to sit shiva!
And yes, she did respond graciously.
I think the slip episode was a desire to hurt the mother. She did seem to like to wear pretty things, so this was his way of hurting her. I’m not sure! There is such a tendency to blame others. Did you catch how he entertained thoughts of killing his father when his father was under a car held up by a jack? And how he told his mother she didn’t stand up to his dad. He was really spiraling into darkness.
just jumping in here–the car scene disturbed me! that and the frog…just the depths of our sin nature, the thoughts…
Dee–I read this yesterday from Oswald Chambers and thought it tied in well with the choice between our old nature and our new:
“If the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.” John 8:36
And Chambers says : “God delivers us from sin–we have to deliver ourselves from our individuality. This means offering our natural life to God and sacrificing it to Him, so He may transform it into spiritual life through our obedience.”
I think I am understanding this now. The child feels angry that one parent acts out but also angry at the parent who allows it and doesn’t rescue. Then it feels like neither parents love well. I have experienced this. When I see this movie again I think I will see it with new eyes.
Love the Chambers quote, Elizabeth.