How Long, How Deep, How Wide, & How High Is God’s Love For Us?
As I have shared many times, I brought havoc and pain to my relationships not only with my administrative assistants, but with my adult children, by making sideways comments, endeavoring to change their course. When I saw that this was the sin of manipulation, I have repented and rarely do it — and all of my relationships are so much better. But I wouldn’t be able to turn from this sin, especially with those I deeply love, like my adult children, if I didn’t trust that God’s love was longer, stronger, deeper, and wiser than my own. My firstborn son and his wife just visited for two weeks, and I marveled how much better our relationship is than it was twenty years ago. They want to be with me. They seek me out. I even took my daughter-in-law shopping for her birthday — something that I don’t think would have happened before my turn seemed certain to her.
I realize that the root reason I nag or manipulate is fear. I fear the path they are on and desperately want to change it. I’m not talking about sin, but about what I perceive as dangerous. If the Spirit allows me freedom to speak the truth in love about something I see as dangerous, such as not getting colonoscopies, or riding motorcyles, or being lax in parenting — then I can do so once in love, but then I must zipper my mouth and shut down any non-verbal communications. Anything else will be inefficacious and destroy intimacy.
My ability to surrender is growing as I grow in the confidence that God’s love is longer, stronger, deeper, and wiser than my own. I must not try to be the Holy Spirit. And even if the choices we make or our loved ones make lead to suffering, those are stepping stones to glory.
Paige’s lecture, like her lecture on adoption, was so reassuring about the love and purposes of God. She began with this book to address our fears that when we are feel unloveable, God might withdraw His love. But no! His love is deeper than that.
This is next week’s lecture — this week’s is over. This one up til Tues. night.
Questions in Purple are for those simultaneously reviewing Revelation 1-11.
Questions preceded by a * are Paige’s.
Sunday: Getting Started
- What stands out to you from the above and why?
- Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love. If it is too personal to do here, do it somewhere else!
- Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive!
Monday: How Long?
Prepare your heart with this:
4. Read Romans 8:28-30
A. Find the verbs associated with God. Do these assure you of His love and commitment to you? Explain.
B. Paige told a story about a girl who found out later in life she was adopted — and she ran off to be by herself. Do you remember what happened and Paige’s point?
C. Paige made a point that this is all of God, and said: “If we started it, then we have no assurance.” What did she mean? Do you agree? Disagree? Explain.
*D. How do we define good? The good life? The good day? The good year? The good job? What is the “good” for which He works all things? Is this the good that we seek? That we pray for?
*E. What if God desires this good, but it just never happens for us? See Philippians 1:6, 1 Corinthians 1:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:24.
F. What is the good? Do you see this happening in your life?
*5. Read Colossians 1:15-20. Jesus is twice announced to be “the firstborn.” Of what? Given His rightful firstborn status in both of these ways, how does the purpose of His firstborn status in v. 29 show God’s amazing love for us? Refer back to v.17.
6. How many brothers does God show John he will have in Revelation 7:1-17? What does this number 144,000 symbolize?
Tuesday: How Deep? How Wide?
I so identified with Paige’s story with her kids, when they say, “You just don’t want me to be happy.” They’ve forgotten how she loves them, feeds them, clothes them, bears their stretch marks!
When I was about 12 I said those words to my dad after he forbade me from doing something. I still remember exactly where we were. I was sitting in my walk-in closet, pouting, and he was standing at the door. When I spoke those words, he began to cry. It startled me. He said, “Everything I do, the reason I work and give and try so hard, is because of the overwhelming love I have for you, your mother, and your sisters.” I never forgot it. What more could he say?
*7. In Romans 8: 31b-35a Paul poses 5 questions. They are all found to be rhetorical because each of them contains an included or attached truth that makes them “unanswerable” (J. Stott). Look at each—the question and the unshakeable truth. Conclude by sharing your answer to the question in v. 31a.
8. Read Romans 8:33-34 again. Who could accuse us before the Father? Who is constantly interceding for us? Do you remember what Dean Ortland said about “refresh?”
*9. Read Zechariah 3:1-5 about Israel’s own high priest standing before Him. What defense can be offered? How strong is this defense? Refer to 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Galatians 3:26-27 for an understanding of the new garments. What about Revelation 19:14?
10. Paige told a pretty dramatic story about what she brought to show and tell. What was the point of her story?
*11. We sometimes talk about “covering” something or someone in prayer. Do we ever consider being “covered”? Think about what Romans 8 has told us about Who intercedes for us—vv. 26-27, 34 (Hebrews 7:23-25). Where is the Spirit (vv. 9-11)? Where is the Son (v. 34)? So is His intercession very personal and intimate? Or transcendent and powerful? Is there any aspect of our lives not “covered”?
Wednesday: How High?
Once when speaking to a primarily black church in Chicago, I started quoting Romans 8:35. I asked “What shall separate us from the love of Christ?”
A woman cried out, “Shall tribulation?”
I thought — oh my, I hope I can remember these verses. I said back: “Shall distress?”
They cried, “Shall persecution?”
I said, “Or famine?”
They cried, “Or nakedness?”
I said, “Or danger?”
And they finished, “Or sword?”
And we all laughed, assurred that nothing, no nothing, could separate us from His love.
12. Read Romans 8:35-39.
A. What is the promise?
*B. Do you live your life in the insecurity of your love for God or in the assurance of His love for you?
13. Paige told the story behind George Mathison’s Hymn “Oh Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go” Do you remember the story? How do the lyrics of that song help us overcome our sorrow when humans let us down?
*14. What do you FEEL like separates you fro God’s love? When are you most prone and most quick to doubt or even deny His love?
Thursday: Weight of Glory
15. Paige told about St John Chrysostom being brought before the emperor and threatened by him in many ways. Do you remember how he responded when told he would be banished, that his riches would be taken, and that he would have no friends?
16. As you look carefully at the words in Romans 8:37, what is the promise? What is not the promise?
17. Paige quoted Lewis several times.
A. Once, in Narnia, when the children were so afraid their “faces were like cold gravy” what happened to overcome their fears?
B. In the Great Divorce Lewis writes: “Heaven, once attained, will work backwards and turn even agony into a glory.” What does that mean. How does that give you hope?
18. Do you remember Paige’s conversation with her 4 year old daughter? What was the point?
19. What assurance of God’s love can you find in Revelation 5:9-10?
Friday:
20. What is your take-a-way and why?
104 comments
Such good answers, Mary.>
This is Patti’s post from yesterday — because of the links it had to be approved — but I didn’t want you to miss it!
12. Read the last two chapters of C. S. Lewis’ “The Last Battle.” Here are some quotes — let them fuel your imagination. Do you resonate with them? If so, how?
A. The term is over. The holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning. This life we are living, is as a term in school. We are learning to know God, to trust Him, to live a life that continues to draw us closer to Him. We know there is more when we “graduate or get to the holidays”, but we cannot capture it in our imaginations. It is so beyond our finite minds, yet we know that He will help us persevere and get through the term. When we complete our journey, we will then be able to see the beautiful and perfect place that we only now and then get a glimpse of…it will be our real home.
B. That was not the real Narnia. That had a beginning and end. It was only a shadow or a copy of the real Narnia which has always been here and always will be here. This earth is only a shadow, whose brilliance and beauty we cannot totally see now. It is temporary; it began for us when we were born and it will end when we leave this earth. When God turns the page on our life, we will join Him in the real Narnia/Heaven. It will be the perfect version of where we now reside.
C. It reminds me of somewhere but I can’t give it a name. Could it be somewhere we once stayed for a holiday when we were very, very small? We will know it is familiar, but it will be so much more perfect and so much better. Years ago, we heard an author speak about a book he co-wrote. It is called The Privileged Planet. It is a wonderful book from The Discovery Institute. There is a dvd on it as well. It helps you see how God so intricately designed this place we call earth. I have never looked at the world in the same way. It is well worth the read.
D. Have you noticed one can’t feel afraid, even if one wants to? Try it. Our minds and hearts will be so changed that we will remember no pain, no sorrow, no loss. We will have only joy and fellowship with God in His Glory! All relationships will be healed! All bodies will be new and spiritual!
E. The current was racing away behind you, but you were such a wonderful swimmer that you could make headway against it. Everything we imagine, will be possible! We will be able to float in the sky with the angels, swim deep in the crystal clear ocean with the beautiful and colorful sea life. There will be nothing to fear! Sharon’s son and my daughter will ride the waves without their surfboards! They will sail across the water like beautiful flying birds! They will be perfectly dry when they come out of the water!
F. I have come home at last! This is my real country! I belong here. This is the land I have been looking for all my life, though I never knew it till now…Come further up, come further in! We will know that this is our true home! We will see the beautiful sunsets that Dee sees from her home on the lake, but it will always be light and color will be everywhere. There will be no time! Dee’s Steve will be hugging her and his children and and we can all hear him laughing his beautiful laugh!
G. Share a quote you love. ” This is still Narnia, and more real and more beautiful than the Narnia down below, just as it was more real and more beautiful than the Narnia outside the stable door! I see…world with world, Narnia within Narnia…” “Yes,” said Tumnus, “like an onion: except that as you continue to go in and in , each circle is larger than the last.”
H. Revelation students — what parallels did you see?
It is definitely a new earth. It is recognizable, yet so much more than we can see or experience here. We have just a hint of it on this planet. It will be so perfect and so beautiful.
Revelation 21:1-2 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no long any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.”
John 14:3 “If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.”
here is the book link….
The Privileged Planet: How Our Place in the Cosmos Is Designed for Discovery
by Guillermo Gonzalez and Jay Richards | Feb 1, 2004
4.7 out of 5 star
Oh, wow! Thank you so much, Patti, for all of these and Dee, for posting it here or we could have missed the beauty of what Patti has shared. I will check the link! Have a good day in the Lord, everyone. This is the day the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it!
Thank you for posting this. Patti thank you for your insight and the time that you spend giving us insight into God’s word.This book is going onto my must read list.
Patti, this is wonderful! I liked your description of a school term. In Africa we went to school for 3 months which was considered a term and then went home for a month. I remember when the 3 months were up the excitement of seeing my parents trumped everything else. Thankfully I only had to do this for half of my 9th grade year but I want to live with this same anticipation of one day seeing Jesus face to face…the excitement!
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? The influence (control may be a more accurate term) that fear has on our actions. I have been pondering this all day. Your insight, Dee, into the root of your actions (rather the Spirit’s revelation to you?) may be insight into all our idols. For though we have identified control, comfort, approval, etc as our “roots” it is the FEAR of not having those things that may be the ultimate driving force behind our actions. Our behaviors manifest from our deepest beliefs. Your comments above are apropos to God’s lesson to me lately about letting people (my children included) have their own journey. He writes each story and I am learning to come alongside instead of trying to pull them to my journey trying to make their thoughts and choices like mine. This lesson has been through the Bible Study I am doing … each of those beautiful women have a story that GOD is writing, I merely have the privilege of being alongside them for this particular bend in the road. There is freedom in God’s power and sovereignty… I only obey, He determines outcome.
2. Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love. I am habitually anxious about being the best. I want to be the best friend, the best nurse, the best mother… this all stems from approval and makes mistakes devastating… it also predisposes me to gossip because I (shamefully) am keeping track of points in order to secretly judge who is best. This has been a life-long struggle..God has slowly chipped away at this but my “truth” for battling this was slightly skewed until the last couple of years. I used to tell myself of my worth in Christ but this still carried a prideful desire to have *more* worth than others … which is NOT Truth. Now there are two Truth’s that the Spirit reminds me of when I become anxious or feel the competition rise in my heart. 1. ________is not my life CHRIST is my life. 2. All children of the King are valued at a high price and all are welcomed. He loves them and I am the chief of sinners with the privilege of serving (pleasing) the King who is the ONLY one worthy of praise! I love watching The Chosen for Christ interacts with all humbly, with whatever response they need but never, ever with pride. It reminds me to love.
You show great insight, Jill. I do think His Spirit is revealing to us what a part fear plays, and how perfect love casts out fear!
Jill, I love everything you wrote! I so many times think I need to do something, instead of praying and leaving it in God’s hands. I need to make a Bible bookmark with this on it: There is freedom in God’s power and sovereignty… I only obey, He determines outcome.
These are two more things I need to remember! 1. ________is not my life CHRIST is my life. 2. All children of the King are valued at a high price and all are welcomed. He loves them and I am the chief of sinners with the privilege of serving (pleasing) the King who is the ONLY one worthy of praise! I love watching The Chosen for Christ interacts with all humbly, with whatever response they need but never, ever with pride. It reminds me to love.
3. Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive! …”called according to his purpose…” this is great comfort- we are created on purpose for a purpose.
I am pondering “more than conquerors.” Verses 35-37 are somewhat of a mystery. Paul asks if certain things can separate us from the love of Christ then he answers his own question by quoting “for your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered” which leads him to conclude that we are more than conquerors. So being killed all the day long must mean something victorious and not a defeat…. ? Thinking on this…
More good pondering. Kathy Troccoli used to say “With every death there is a resurrection,” meaning when we die to self, when we surrender to God for His glory, life will spring.
9. Read Zechariah 3:1-5 about Israel’s own high priest standing before Him. What defense can be offered? How strong is this defense? Refer to 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Galatians 3:26-27 for an understanding of the new garments. What about Revelation 19:14?
In Zechariah, the high priest Joshua stands before the angel of the Lord wearing filthy garments, and Satan is there accusing him. The defense offered is that God has taken away his sin. His filthy garments are exchanged for clean garments. There can be no stronger defense than God Himself having taken away the sin.
2 Cor 5:21 assures us that because God made Jesus, who had no sin to be sin for us, in Him we might become righteous.
Gal 3:26-27 talks about being sons of God through faith in Christ and having been clothed with Christ.
So I think these new garments in each of these examples are putting on the righteousness of God (through Christ). We are given His righteousness.
Rev 19:14 is a picture of the armies of heaven following the Lord, and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Again, being clothed in His righteousness as pictured as clean, white clothing.
10. Paige told a pretty dramatic story about what she brought to show and tell. What was the point of her story?
Her tonsils in a jar for show and tell outdid the boy’s model airplane. When she put the jar on her desk, her teacher vomited and everyone was dismissed early. Her point: Satan shows up in the courtroom of heaven with his accusations against us. They’re big and impressive; nobody can top that. However, Jesus shows up with His glorified, resurrected scars, and Satan “throws up and everyone goes home.”
11. We sometimes talk about “covering” something or someone in prayer. Do we ever consider being “covered”? Think about what Romans 8 has told us about Who intercedes for us – vv. 26-27, 34. (Hebrews 7:23-25). Where is the Spirit (vv. 9-11)? Where is the Son (v. 34)? So is His intercession very personal and intimate? Or transcendent and powerful? Is there any aspect of our lives not “covered”?
Paige talked about the mother covering her daughter when the plane crashed; covering her with her own body and she would not let her go. Paige said, “Such is the love of Jesus for us. He left His place in heaven of safety, lowered Himself to us, covered us with the sacrifice of His own body, and He will not let us go.” The Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And, Jesus also is at the Father’s right hand interceding for us. Hebrews tells us that Jesus always lives to intercede for us; He cannot die like the human priests did. The Spirit who intercedes for us is living inside of us. Jesus is at the right hand of God. So I would say that His intercession is both transcendent and powerful, AND personal and intimate. There is no aspect of our lives that is not covered.
Susan, Love love love your answer to 10:
“Her point: Satan shows up in the courtroom of heaven with his accusations against us. They’re big and impressive; nobody can top that. However, Jesus shows up with His glorified, resurrected scars, and Satan “throws up and everyone goes home.”
What stands out to you from the above and why? The Dan Fogelberg song. It’s a song that came out when I was a teenager in the midst of a very deep depression. At the time my heart longed for someone, anyone to say these words to me. Now I know that someone always has been and always will continue to sing this to me.
Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love. If it is too personal to do here, do it somewhere else! My biggest source of anxiety is that I am wasting my earthly life and not doing anything of significance for God’s kingdom. I know that God loves me and already knows the plans that He has for me. As long as I continue to seek His will, I am where He wants me to be and am who He wants me to be.
Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive! Romans 8:37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
Isn’t that the best to know God’s love is longer than…and He’s singing over us?
It’s made me less hesitant to pray for every little thing.
And you are right on — what He requires of us is faithfulness — love The Message paraphrase in Romans 8 of “What’s Next, Papa?”
Sunday: Getting Started
What stands out to you from the above and why?
I love the book that she shared and how affirming the mother was to the child of her love for him. And God’s love is even far more than maternal love.
“When we feel unlovable, God might withdraw His love.” I used to feel this way in the past, but God has really done merciful and gracious work in my life. I am learning to take Him at His Word-that He loves me just as I am and that He has a purpose for my life.
Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love. If it is too personal to do here, do it somewhere else!
I have shared here before that one of my idols is people-pleasing. And like Dee, I have realized that the root of this is fear. Fear of not being accepted and loved for who I am.
It is still a challenge and more so some days. Today was no exception-so many people to please and so little time (pardon the sarcasm). I have also recognized some of my propensities to it like not feeling too well, too busy, not having quality time with the Lord at the beginning of the day, not spending time in the Word. I am learning to fix my eyes on Jesus and not on people.
When I see myself going down the slippery slope of idolatry, I sing to my soul if not speak to it. “Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so. Yes, Jesus loves me, the Bible tells me so.” “His banner over me is love.” Song of Songs
I John 4:18 Such love has no fear because perfect love expels all fear.
Ephesians 2:4-5 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Ephesians 3:18-20 … that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us…
As I typed these last verses, v.20 became radioactive to me. It is possible to know and to comprehend the love of Christ because He is “able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think.” Lord, that I may grow in my knowledge of your love for me.
Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive!
If God is for us who can be against us?
This verse gives me such courage to face life and any of its circumstances. No matter what, God is with me.
“Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.”
We are not just conquerors but more than conquerors through Jesus. I get the victory but above that is I get Jesus.
From Bing:
When I see myself going down the slippery slope of idolatry, I sing to my soul if not speak to it. “Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so. Yes, Jesus loves me, the Bible tells me so.” “His banner over me is love.” Song of Songs
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I love Dan Fogelberg! Sweet music. Reminds me of my sister.
You are so transparent with your self-idols, Dee. Thank you. It is hard to admit when we are wrong! I have a way about myself (I am guessing I am on the “spectrum”) of saying exactly what I mean with no sugar coating. I wish I weren’t like that, and I believe I have lost many friends (and don’t have very many friends because of it). BUT, God made me who I am. I need to push into it as in child birth. I only need Him.
2. Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love. If it is too personal to do here, do it somewhere else!
I am anxious when talking to someone who is a “boss” figure to me. in fact, I need to do it today! Dear Lord help me go slowly and speak and think clearly.
3. Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive!
I love that Christ is one of us! He is the first. We are like Him and God wanted us so He sent Him to be with us.
I always love you honesty, Laura! I also love this: I love that Christ is one of us! He is the first. We are like Him and God wanted us so He sent Him to be with us.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? I love the Dan Fogelberg song and the visuals with it. I am so thankful for God’s love, which is so endless and so unconditional! When I think of how much I love my children and how much I desire for them to love God, be well and have good relationships…..then I think of how much more God loves and desires us to have fellowship, love and interaction with Him….and He wants us to desire the proper things of this earth and to be good stewards…I am overwhelmed by a desire to please Him. I fail daily and I so relate to leaning on my idols of pleasing people…I constantly have to relinquish my control and everything to Him! (Why I need Jill’s comment in plain sight to remind myself: There is freedom in God’s power and sovereignty… I only obey, He determines outcome.)
2. Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love. If it is too personal to do here, do it somewhere else!
I am anxious about the future and relationships. I am so thankful for your study on Idols, Dee. It opened up a whole new world to me. I love your transparency and your speaking of “sideways comments”….I never even realized I did that! Oh, my! What an eye opener! I work on that so much now….maybe I have not used the words, but one time my son said something (a negative sideways comment from him to me) about me giving him “self help” books. I had given him a book on a subject he and I had been discussing…something he was interested in (I thought)…ouch! I have not done that since. I love what you wrote, Dee: I realize that the root reason I nag or manipulate is fear. I fear the path they are on and desperately want to change it. I’m not talking about sin, but about what I perceive as dangerous. If the Spirit allows me freedom to speak the truth in love about something I see as dangerous, such as not getting colonoscopies, or riding motorcyles, or being lax in parenting — then I can do so once in love, but then I must zipper my mouth and shut down any non-verbal communications. Anything else will be inefficacious and destroy intimacy. Such an excellent reminder!! Thank you!
3. Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive! I love verses 8:38-39. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing…. “will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” He loves us longer than, higher than, deeper than, wider than…..eternally….before we were born, He created us….This calms my soul.
Patti, I, too, have been guilty of sideway comments especially to those I love. I don’t know why I have thought in the past, that sideway comments are more kind than just being honest about something. Or maybe, the kinder way is just not saying anything and giving it to the Lord-He always does things right anyway! I am with you about the future and relationships. I often have to speak or sing the truth to my soul.
Patti and Bing — thank you both for this encouragement. My eldest son is the age that Steve was when he began to not feel well (colon cancer) so not getting colonoscopies has been fear producing. But I really am seeing God’s love so much better that it is shutting down the fear. That’s amazing to me.
Oh, Dee~ Those kinds of things are fear triggers with me too. Our son is past the age my husband was, when he got diabetes. I have turned that over to the Lord. And I love what you wrote, Bing: giving it to the Lord-He always does things right anyway! Think I need this on my refrigerator!
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? (I’ve been keeping up, but miss everyone!)
“My ability to surrender is growing as I grow in the confidence that God’s love is longer, stronger, deeper, and wiser than my own. I must not try to be the Holy Spirit. And even if the choices we make or our loved ones make lead to suffering, those are stepping stones to glory.”
It delights me to hear of Dee’s growth and I underlined what stood out. I’ve been struggling with a decision that either way would bring suffering. I feel like I am stuck mostly because of what a few people in our church might think, but this really encouraged me. There is nothing I can do, no choice I can make that will tie God’s hands up so that He can’t work in it for stepping stones of glory, and nothing I do will alter His love for me. I tend to think He will be upset with me if I make the wrong choice.
2. Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love. If it is too personal to do here, do it somewhere else!
done.
3. Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive!
Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
God is the one who Justifies and I am not condemned by God, so if anyone condemns me, so what? I am the King of Kings and Lord of Lords who loves me no matter what and understands me and cries out on my behalf.
I have been praying for you, Rebecca. I will pray for your decision…praying that the Lord will speak to your heart and make it clear to you.
Oh, Rebecca-this so true-There is nothing I can do, no choice I can make that will tie God’s hands up so that He can’t work in it for stepping stones of glory, and nothing I do will alter His love for me.
I am praying that you would keep leaning on God during these hard times that you are going through. Oh, how He loves us!
Praying, sweet sister 🙏🙏♥️♥️
Wow, Rebecca: I’ve been struggling with a decision that either way would bring suffering. I feel like I am stuck mostly because of what a few people in our church might think,
I pray you will be set free of that, but it is a hard one!
Monday: How Long?
Prepare your heart with this:
4. Read Romans 8:28-30
A. Find the verbs associated with God. Do these assure you of His love and commitment to you? Explain. Foreknew, predestined, conformed, called, justified, glorified.
He knew me before I was me and chose me and He will finish the work in me that He has started. He will not abandon me until I am glorified like His Son.
B. Paige told a story about a girl who found out later in life she was adopted — and she ran off to be by herself. Do you remember what happened and Paige’s point?
The girl showed up at Paige’s parents’ house and had the realization that she was chosen by her parents.
C. Paige made a point that this is all of God, and said: “If we started it, then we have no assurance.” What did she mean? Do you agree? Disagree? Explain.
Since our feelings are not dependable, our relationship with God will often be in jeopardy if I think I can start a forever relationship with Him. The secure status of a relationship depends on the character of the One who initiated it. God is dependable and always trustworthy. I am not.
*D. How do we define good? The good life? The good day? The good year? The good job? What is the “good” for which He works all things? Is this the good that we seek? That we pray for?
To be conformed to the likeness of His Son.
*E. What if God desires this good, but it just never happens for us? See Philippians 1:6, 1 Corinthians 1:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:24.
God will complete what He has started in us. Philippians 1:6 He will also keep you firm to the end so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. I Thessalonians 5:24 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.
I have to believe that God is always working things out for my good.
F. What is the good? Do you see this happening in your life?
Being conformed to the likeness of God’s Son. Yes, I have a different perspective of life now knowing that I am loved, and my conformity is not to a human being but the Son of God Himself. And this work of conforming to Jesus is not up to me but to God who is faithful to what He has started and will complete.
*5. Read Colossians 1:15-20. Jesus is twice announced to be “the firstborn.” Of what? Given His rightful firstborn status in both of these ways, how does the purpose of His firstborn status in v. 29 show God’s amazing love for us? Refer back to v.17.
The firstborn over all creation and from among the dead. V.29 the firstborn among many brothers and sisters v. 17 In Him all things hold together.
That God counted us worthy to give the same status as He has given His Son. He has answered the priestly prayer of Jesus in John 17:22-24
“ The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, maybe with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.”
6. How many brothers does God show John he will have in Revelation 7:1-17? What does this number 144,000 symbolize?
It is symbolic of the church that would be made up of a multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language.
Yes yes: The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.
4. Read Romans 8:28-30
A. Find the verbs associated with God. Do these assure you of His love and commitment to you? Explain. God foreknew us. God predestined us to be transformed. God works all things. It is a comfort to think of God foreknowing me. He had a plan before I messed up, before I made choices that were disobedient and yet He still works and destines me to His purpose and work. He decided from the beginning that I was His.
B. Paige told a story about a girl who found out later in life she was adopted — and she ran off to be by herself. Do you remember what happened and Paige’s point? “They choose me! I haven’t been easy but they choose me!” What a beautiful picture. I imagine this girl emotionally riding the roller coaster of all stages of grief in one brief evening – what a shock but o grace to arrive at awe and wonder at the love bestowed. Paige’s point was: God choose us! We are adopted, there is no refusal, only acceptance.
C. Paige made a point that this is all of God, and said: “If we started it, then we have no assurance.” What did she mean? Do you agree? Disagree? Explain. Yes! If anything was dependent on me (the beginning, the end, or anything in between) is would be inherently corrupted with sinful nature and weakness. But He started it and He will end it – all things in His hands THAT is reassurance … our choices still matter but they are ot where my foundation is.
*D. How do we define good? The good life? The good day? The good year? The good job? What is the “good” for which He works all things? Is this the good that we seek? That we pray for? Of course the most natural and common definition of “good” is ‘devoid of hardship or inconvenience.’ But true good that He is working all things toward is His glory – our reflection of Christ. Good is getting rid of that which impedes our sanctification. Good is not only getting rid of the things that inhibit glorifying Him but also filling with things that are of Him and reflect Him. My most common prayer is for a heart of obedience snd remembrance of who I am and to whom I belong.
F. What is the good? Do you see this happening in your life? Good – He allows my struggles again and again so that I can again and again grasp for Truth – be reminded of where I need to cling, to drive deeper and deeper the Truth He wants me to learn and embody. And I do see softening of the edged of my stone heart – seeing Him and His Gospel more clearly.
Love this:
They choose me! I haven’t been easy but they choose me!” What a beautiful picture. I imagine this girl emotionally riding the roller coaster of all stages of grief in one brief evening – what a shock but o grace to arrive at awe and wonder at the love bestowed. Paige’s point was: God choose us! We are adopted, there is no refusal, only acceptance.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I bought the children’s book for my grandson and am saving it for his birthday next month. It’s so sweet! Now if only I could read it to him with Paige’s southern accent!
2. Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love.
I tend to be anxious about the future – what it will be like, will I have any sense of purpose or meaning in my life, will I be alone. Often when I read the Psalms, I read David’s words and all of the different emotions he took to God….things like loneliness, fear, feeling abandoned. Then I read his words about how he knows that God will be there for him, and it helps.
3. Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive!
“I’m absolutely convinced that nothing – nothing living or dead, angelic or demonic, today or tomorrow, high or low, thinkable or unthinkable – absolutely nothing can get between us and God’s love because of the way that Jesus our Master has embraced us.” (The Message)
I like the “because of the way that Jesus our Master has embraced us.” It reminded me of the story Paige told about the four year old girl who survived the plane crash; her mother would not let her go. This tells me that the way that Jesus holds me is such that nothing, no one, can get in-between us to separate me from Him.
I had forgotten the plane crash story. So good. Perfect love is casting out fear in me! In us!
The story of the plane crash gives us such a strong mental picture of being held in an embrace that will NOT let us go…. I can see that mom in my mind, wrapping her arms around her little girl, determined to shield her, protect her. And sacrificing her own life, too.
I thought the same thing, Susan. This precious Mom giving her life to give her child life. Perfect Love.
4. Read Romans 8:28-30
A. Find the verbs associated with God. Do these assure you of His love and commitment to you?
God works, foreknew, predestined to be conformed, called, justified, glorified. These verbs show an overarching picture of God working before I was even born, and continuing to work up until the day I am glorified. His commitment goes on right through into eternity. He will finish what He started.
B. Paige told a story about a girl who found out later in life she was adopted – and she ran off to be by herself, Do you remember what happened and Paige’s point?
She was home for the weekend from college and found out she’d been adopted. She was so upset that she just left, and later showed up at Paige’s home. When they opened the door, she was sobbing, and said, “They chose me. They wanted me. I have not been easy at all, and I didn’t come to them; they came to me!” Paige’s point is for us to stop and consider this: He chose me. He wants me. He came after me. In order to understand our relationship with God and to have assurance, we must understand the right order of this relationship. We did not initiate it; He did. God made a decision for me, and then I made a decision for Him.
C. Paige made a point that this was all of God and said, “If we started it, then we have no assurance. What did she mean? Do you agree? Disagree? Explain.
I have started a lot of relationships that haven’t lasted. In our human frailty, we don’t have what it takes to keep a relationship from falling apart. Paige said that these verses are not talking about a human relationship, as in “it takes two”. The “right order” of our relationship with God is what gives us assurance. God first loved me, and then I loved Him. I agree with Paige. My heart is so prone to wander away from God, that were it to depend on me, I’d be in big trouble. God’s love for me never changes, never grows cool, never wanders in its attention.
D. How do we define good? The good life? The good day? The good year? The good job? What is the “good” for which He works all things? Is this the good that we seek? That we pray for?
We usually define a good day as a day without any mishaps or bad news. Our world defines the good life as having money, great vacations, a nice car, fancy clothes….material wealth. Paige said that these verses about the “good” for which God is working all things come right after the verses about suffering and groaning. Paul does not say that all things “are” good. Cancer is not good, disability and death are not good. The “good” is that we are being conformed to the image of His Son, Jesus. That is the ultimate good. Paige said that there really isn’t anything better than this: “God is making us to be like Jesus, so that when we go to be with Jesus, we will be able to enjoy Him and relate to Him in every possible way.” God is weaving every single thing in our lives unto that purpose, out of His great love for us.
I have to be honest and say this isn’t the first thing that comes to mind when I’m suffering or in pain, or that I actively seek after this or pray for it.
E. What if God desires this good, but it just never happens for us? See Philippians 1:6, 1 Corinthians 1:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:24?
“He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
“God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.”
“The one who calls you is faithful, and He will do it.”
I think all these verses are saying that it will happen for us? We can’t conform ourselves to Christ, but God can. Maybe when we die, we’re each at different stages of progress? Maybe some had more conforming opportunities than others, or some cooperated more with the conforming process?
F. What is the good? Do you see this happening in your life?
The good is to be conformed to the image of God’s Son, Jesus. Is this happening in my life? I hope so. I am not what I should be, but I am not what I used to be. Maybe the more accurate way to assess this is to ask someone who really knows me.
So good from Susan:
My heart is so prone to wander away from God, that were it to depend on me, I’d be in big trouble. God’s love for me never changes, never grows cool, never wanders in its attention.
Amen. I love love love this. Thank you, Susan.
1. LOVED the Dan Fogelberg song! Also, it is so true, sufferings are stepping stones to glory. I keep hearing God’s words to Baruch, Jeremiah’s servant: Should you seek great things for yourself? Seek them not… Jer 45. God is the only great Thing I should be pursuing. I need to choose to be content with Him, to have His presence be enough for me.
2. An area of anxiety. It’s probably related to what I just shared. I’ve always wanted ‘more’. To prove that I’m worthy of being alive, by being being good or productive or thought well of by others. More and more, as I hear Him show and tell me that He is enough, when I feel anxious I can say it back to Him, that He is enough.
3. Romans 8:28-39. What jumps out at me is ‘in all these things we are more than conquerors’…. It is so easy for me to see this as a medieval battle, and we get to raise our arms in a victory that was so lopsided that we are not just conquerors, but more than. Yet what I see in Scripture is that our victory often comes out of what looks like defeat. It is when we don’t give up believing Jesus is Who He says He is, even when our dreams, our relationships, our health or whatever else dies. When we raise our voices from those ashes and proclaim Jesus is Lord. That is being more than a conqueror.
Really good post, Mary. All of it!
4. Romans 8:28-30.
A. Verbs used to describe God: works, foreknew, predestined, called, justified, glorified. I debated whether conformed belonged to the list or not. Do these assure you of His love and commitment to you? It is so helpful that these are all actions coming from Him, done to believers for our good.
B. The girl finding out she was adopted. She disappeared, and they were so afraid for her. When she turned up, it was as someone totally undone by the fact that she had been chosen.
C. Paige said, if we started it, we have no assurance. What did she mean? Agree or not?
When we are trying to make a relationship with someone, there’s a dance that goes on. We don’t want to be too eager and make every contact, for fear that they are getting tired of you and only being polite while they look for an exit strategy. But with God, He skips the dance. He puts Himself out there and continues to do so, showing us that He is not going to change His mind and walk away from us. He isn’t like us, and we can take comfort in that.
D. Define ‘good’. Our tendency is to define it by the current world standards, by what we desire and think is worthwhile. The rich young ruler called Jesus ‘good’, and Jesus said nothing is good except God. By that understanding, the good God is working in the passage is whatever helps move us closer to Jesus. It isn’t usually what our prayers are full of, or what we ask for ourselves. I’ve heard it said we will come into heaven wanting our gold to come with us and have St Peter ask why we wanted paving material.
E. What if the good God desires doesn’t happen?
God says over and over that He finishes what He starts, and the implication is that it isn’t our ability that will make it happen, but His.
F. Do I see the good in my life? Satan specializes in parking himself in our ears and telling us all the ways we don’t measure up and why we should give up. And if discouragement isn’t working, then he points out anything we’ve gotten right and tries to twist that into pride and arrogance. I figure that if I keep my eyes on the One who is Good, He will sort out the rest of it for me at the right time.
5. Read Colossians 1:15-20. Jesus is twice announced to be “the firstborn”. Of what? Given His rightful firstborn status in both of these ways, how does the purpose of His firstborn status in v 29 show God’s amazing love for us? Refer back to v 17.
Jesus is the firstborn over all creation and He is the firstborn from among the dead. Paul says that he wants to present every man complete in Christ, and this is what he labors for (v 29) with the help of His power working in him. Verse 17 says that Jesus is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. Is the purpose of His firstborn status to make us complete in Him? I am not sure I understand this question.
6. How many brothers does God show John he will have in Revelation 7:1-17? What does this number 144,000 symbolize?
John sees a vast crowd, too great to count; people from every nation, tribe, people, and language. 144,000 represents a large, indefinite number of people.
7. In Romans 8:31b-35a Paul poses 5 questions. They are all found to be rhetorical because each of them contains an included or attached truth that makes them “unanswerable”. Look at each – the question and the unshakeable truth. Conclude by sharing your answer to the question in v 31a.
If God is for us, who can ever be against us? (Answer: God didn’t spare His own Son, but gave Him up for us all. Won’t He therefore give us everything else?)
Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for His own? (Answer: No one; God HImself has justified us.)
Who then will condemn us? (Answer: No one, because Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us. He sits at God’s right hand, interceding for us.)
Can anything ever separate us from Christ’s love? Does it mean He no longer loves us if we have trouble or calamity, or are persecuted, or hungry, or destitute, or in danger, or threatened with death? (Answer: No. Despite all these things, victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.)
The question in verse 31a: “What shall we say about such wonderful things as these? Looking back at all of Romans 8, what shall we/I say? It is all true. Our suffering is not meant to be the end of us or to plunge us into despair. We have the Holy Spirit who helps us. Nothing can ever separate us from God or from His love.
8. Read Romans 8:33-34 again. Who could accuse us before the Father? Who is constantly interceding for us? Do you remember what Dean Ortlund said about “refresh”?
Paige said that Satan could accuse us before the Father; others could accuse us, and we could accuse ourselves. And the real problem is that all of the accusations are true! But Jesus is constantly interceding for us. “Intercession is the constant hitting “refresh” on our justification in the court of heaven. Christ does not intercede because the Father’s heart is tepid towards us; but because the Son’s heart is so full towards us. But the Father’s own deepest delight is to say “Yes” to the Son’s pleading on our behalf.” (Ortlund)
Paige said that every time we stumble and fall, rebel and reject, Jesus is right there, hitting refresh on our justification.
7. In Romans 8: 31b-35a Paul poses 5 questions. They are all found to be rhetorical because each of them contains an included or attached truth that makes them “unanswerable” (J. Stott). Look at each—the question and the unshakeable truth. Conclude by sharing your answer to the question in v. 31a. What then shall we say? We shall say, “Take it to my Father.” We shall say, “Take it to my husband.” We shall say, “Take it to He who rules the universe and all that is in it. The story is written and I am His. You have no power here.”
8. Read Romans 8:33-34 again. Who could accuse us before the Father? Who is constantly interceding for us? No-one can *successfully* bring a charge against us. It will have no weight because it has already been paid – legally, justly, fully. Christ is constantly interceding for us.
*9. Read Zechariah 3:1-5 about Israel’s own high priest standing before Him. What defense can be offered? How strong is this defense? Joshua had on filthy garments. The defense is the rebuke of the Lord against the accuser. Then the Lord declares “I have taken your iniquity away from you and I will clothe you in pure vestments.” The Lord’s clean vestments are the defense. There is nothing that can counter this as it is perfect, everlasting, and from the most powerful being.
*11. We sometimes talk about “covering” something or someone in prayer. Do we ever consider being “covered”? Think about what Romans 8 has told us about Who intercedes for us—vv. 26-27, 34 (Hebrews 7:23-25). Where is the Spirit (vv. 9-11)? Where is the Son (v. 34)? So is His intercession very personal and intimate? Or transcendent and powerful? Is there any aspect of our lives not “covered”? The Spirit is in us. Christ is at the right hand of God. He is personal, intimate, transcendent, powerful! (Tho we perceive we can limit these but we cannot, even if we do not actively participate He is still powerful, intimate, personal, and transcendent!) Our lives are “covered.” The real question is: how are of it we are and how do we let that change our approach to prayer and action?!
The point of Paige’s tonsil story: (I had to go back and listen -29:23 for anyone else that needs to hear it again). The point was that just as Paige’s 6-year old tonsils trumped the model airplane in show and tell (causing the teacher to vomit and class to be dismissed) Christ’s death and resurrection is the trump card to Satan’s accusations … he vomits and just goes home because there is no contest.
So good from Jill on speaking to Satan’s accusations:
“Take it to my Father.” We shall say, “Take it to my husband.” We shall say, “Take it to He who rules the universe and all that is in it. The story is written and I am His. You have no power here.”
Sunday
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
…even if the choices we make or our loved ones make lead to suffering, those are Stepping stones to glory …the picture reminded me how slippery, treacherous and hard stepping stones are, but worth it.
2. Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love. If it is too personal to do here, do it somewhere else!
My future and my health.
3. Read Romans 8:28-39 and share anything that stands out to you or becomes radioactive!
My absolute favorite verse, “And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.”Romans 8:28
4. Read Romans 8:28-30
A. Find the verbs associated with God. Do these assure you of His love and commitment to you? Explain.
He works, for the good, of those who love, He chose and knew them, become, He called, He gave, gave glory.
Picking these verses apart makes me know He loves me! Listening to Paige speak of these verses has truly hit my heart. He loves me. This I know. We sing it every night to the babies (not really babies anymore – I’ll post their school picture on the fb page). It’s easy to say the words, but oh! to know! Paul wrote the words over and over for us to let it sink in….the penny has dropped for me! Thank You Jesus! ♥️
B. Paige told a story about a girl who found out later in life she was adopted — and she ran off to be by herself. Do you remember what happened and Paige’s point?
They couldn’t find the girl. Finally when they did she said, “They chose me.” Our realization that He has chosen us was her point.
C. Paige made a point that this is all of God, and said: “If we started it, then we have no assurance.” What did she mean? Do you agree? Disagree? Explain.
Hmmmm…..I’m not sure I remember or took notes on this. I guess that we, as humans, have nothing to back ourselves (like gold). Jesus is our assurance. He paid the price for us. If God is the One who justifies, then no charge can stick. All things work for our good! The bad, the good, and the ugly.
I do agree. I could not provide what God does. I love, love, love Paige’s comment from Dane Ortland about how every time we sin God hits the “refresh” button! Such a great image.
*D. How do we define good? The good life? The good day? The good year? The good job? What is the “good” for which He works all things? Is this the good that we seek? That we pray for?
To me, good is nothing that bothers, annoys, or gets me out of sync with my day. When life chugs along and doesn’t glitch. But, a bad thing, when it happens might not be good to me at the time, but when I look back I can see how it helped and was good after all.
His good is when all events are put together and “good” comes of them. I suppose I should pray that He works it all out. I don’t know that I do? We are in a family crisis presently; hard stuff. I don’t see good in it. I am trying to “do the right thing.” Maybe one day I will see the good?
*E. What if God desires this good, but it just never happens for us? See Philippians 1:6, 1 Corinthians 1:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:24.
It will happen, even if it isn’t the way we think it should be. This is His promise.
F. What is the good? Do you see this happening in your life?
The good is completely comprehensive, no limitations. He turns our enemies into our slaves, He sometimes allows what He hates for the good of us. The wind is blowing but we will not be blown over. We are being conformed to the image of His Son. We do not know how He is working for us.
I do see the good happening in my life, though I do wonder why I sometimes don’t seem to have the “normal” things like others do; it saddens me…the disappointment (for example, we have 4 kids. None of them have had a regular wedding to be married. I will never get to be mother of the bride/groom. I have never been a bridesmaid in a friends wedding, only for my sister. I have other examples too!). I don’t question too much. He knows what is best for me. I have always had the things I needed to live. He takes care of me. I know it!
Father, please give wisdom to Laura and her husband in this family crisis, and work it all together for the good, conforming them to Your son. In Your Name I pray.
So hard, Laura!
Laura, I will pray for you and your family. I understand family crisis. I have a hard time “not trying to fix it” and leaving it to God. I am learning to wait on the Lord and His way. It is so so hard. I will pray for wisdom, discernment, hope and peace for you in this battle. I love when Bing told me: “The Battle Belongs to the Lord.” I pray this for you.
Laura, praying for you and your family in the midst of your family crisis.
Thank you ladies, for the encouragement and prayers. One of the situations has resolved itself. Thank you Lord Jesus! You are King!
So good to hear this answer to prayer, Laura! Praise God! He is faithful!
Monday
4. Read Romans 8:28-30
A. Find the verbs associated with God. Do these assure you of His love and commitment to you? Explain.
know, causes, work together, good, love, called, purpose, advance, chose, become, chosen, come, called, gave, right standing.
Yes, because I can know it’s true and He initiated it.
B. Paige told a story about a girl who found out later in life she was adopted — and she ran off to be by herself. Do you remember what happened and Paige’s point?
She ended up at Paige’s front door as her father was a preacher just sobbing and finally said, “they chose me, I had not been easy but they chose me.” It was her parents who chose to adopt her…she didn’t earn it. The God of the universe set His love on me and nothing can thwart that love for eternity past to eternity future.
C. Paige made a point that this is all of God, and said: “If we started it, then we have no assurance.” What did she mean? Do you agree? Disagree? Explain.
If we started it, our works initiated it and therefore what place does God have? We try within ourselves to make the relationship work. In our relationship with God there are 2 and we must understand the correct order and that order is what gives us assurance. God made a decision for me and then I made a decision for Christ, God made a commitment to me then I made a commitment to Him, Christ gave His life for me then I gave my life to Christ, Jesus asked me into His heart then I asked Him into my heart. He first love me and then I loved Him.
I agree, but God chose me not because He knew I would chose Him but because that was His purpose, that was His plan. She quoted this from Spurgeon ~ “I know God chose me because I never would of chosen Him, and I know He chose me before I was born because He never would of chosen me after I was born.”
*D. How do we define good? The good life? The good day? The good year? The good job? What is the “good” for which He works all things? Is this the good that we seek? That we pray for?
Good is something that isn’t negative. All those good things listed are what we hope to receive, it’s about us. God’s “good” is what He sees as best and that may be a season of suffering. The best place to be is in His hands, loving Him and knowing that He works all things according to His purpose.
*E. What if God desires this good, but it just never happens for us? See Philippians 1:6, 1 Corinthians 1:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:24.
This is an interesting question. If He desires it, why would it never happen? All the verses listed say God will finish what He has started.
F. What is the good? Do you see this happening in your life?
Loving God because He first loved us is knowing that He is in control. No matter what we’re going through He has a purpose. It may not look good to us but we know, know, know, not feel that He will work it together to be good because that’s His purpose.
I’m counting on it in my life!
Sharon — love your reasoning. I have come to believe that the doctrine of election is the most divisive doctrine in the church — but I so love how you put it. If God chose me because He knew I would choose Him, then why did He have to choose me?
Dee and Sharon,
I’ve thought about this and often wondered if it could be both and that we are fighting over something we are both right about. 🙂 It was like bells to my ears when I heard Paige say emphatically, “It’s both!” “It’s both!”. The only way I can think to describe it is through the metaphor of marriage or by going to the Song to see the maiden who was chosen, choose but yet He melted her. I am sure God has melted others and they say no. I like that it is a mystery! Like we know in part now but we’ll know in full later!! SO I say, no need to fight about it, it’s both!
I agree, Rebecca. It is both! How I do not know, but clearly both are in Scripture.
I agree 💯% Rebecca! It’s a subject that people try to put God in a box of their understanding…no way can we do that! And it’s beyond my understanding.
I am so late jumping in on this lesson. We have been having wind and rain storms here and it is a crazy mess. We have lost electricity three times in the past two weeks. Thankfully, it has just been a few hours, but I seem to be accomplishing little! Wet people, wet dogs, wet clothes, flooding streets…..I have thought back to Paige’s lecture a couple weeks ago!
I love all of your thoughts and answers, Sharon! I agree with you, Dee and Rebecca! It is beyond our understanding, but it is good. it is in God’s plan and I must trust Him. This is perfect, Sharon: I agree % Rebecca! It’s a subject that people try to put God in a box of their understanding…no way can we do that! And it’s beyond my understanding.
Won’t it be wonderful when we see Him face to face and we understand it all. I have been reading so many of Tim Keller’s posts recently. His illness is causing suffering, I know. It is so uplifting and encouraging to read what he writes about suffering….and even the sweetness of that. (rabbit trail…)
Oh Patti, I’m glad you’re ok! Having friends and family in the NW we heard of the bad storms…not fun!
Thank you, Sharon. We are grateful for God’s protection. He is good, even through the storms…all kinds…in life. 🙂
4. Read Romans 8:28-30
A. Find the verbs associated with God. Do these assure you of His love and commitment to you? Explain.
He predestined, called, justified and glorified. This assures me! He predestined me-that I would be His before I was born, and He wooed me into fellowship with Him, and is homesteading in me and While I am here on earth, He is conforming me to the Image of Christ until He glorifies me. He has me for eternity! He will never forsake or leave me while I am struggling in this skin needing daily to repent. He walks with me through it, straightens my path and encourages me.
B. Paige told a story about a girl who found out later in life she was adopted — and she ran off to be by herself. Do you remember what happened and Paige’s point? She cried out that they chose her instead of being mad they didn’t tell her. She was humbled and thrilled that they loved her so much they chose her. God chose me. He didn’t have to, but He did and that means everything to me and makes me want to press into Him more and not press into idols.
C. Paige made a point that this is all of God, and said: “If we started it, then we have no assurance.” What did she mean? Do you agree? Disagree? Explain.
If I believe I pursued God before He pursued me, then His love would have to be conditional-based on me but I am sinful and prone to wandering and can’t woo myself to Him! Actually I am incapable of starting it.
I wouldn’t have assurance because it would mean God is aloof and is wishy washy about me..like well whatever, if you want to then I will. That really negates the Gospel for He gave up everything to come in the flesh to rescue us! He pursues us first.
*D. How do we define good? The good life? The good day? The good year? The good job? What is the “good” for which He works all things? Is this the good that we seek? That we pray for? The good in which he works all things is our sanctification and glorification. “All things” is our sin nature exposed through trials (testing) and suffering. This is how he brings what is in the heart to the surface so we can see, repent and turn and walk in obedience. Also in our valleys where we are wounded, He compels us to love the one who wounded us and helps us see that he/she is made in His image and He died for them too. (of course if they haven’t repented you set boundaries, but you love them, forgive them and don’t start hating and wanting justice which is SO easy to do.)
*E. What if God desires this good, but it just never happens for us? See Philippians 1:6, 1 Corinthians 1:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:24.
He began the good work in us and will carry it out to completion. He is the one who called me into fellowship with Jesus, not me, so He will carry it out to completion.
F. What is the good? Do you see this happening in your life?
Yes, I see it happening in my life. I’ve learned SO much for what laid deep in my heart was stirred to the surface and He is freeing me from relational idolatry (marriage-wise). Also in other ares of the dark recesses in my heart.
*7. In Romans 8: 31b-35a Paul poses 5 questions. They are all found to be rhetorical because each of them contains an included or attached truth that makes them “unanswerable” (J. Stott). Look at each—the question and the unshakeable truth. Conclude by sharing your answer to the question in v. 31a.
I am left tongue-tied. May I say, without sounding disrespectful, “Duh… of course, it makes sense! Jesus finished and fulfilled all that was required to secure my eternal security. Who can therefore accuse or separate us from God’s love?”
And like Job, I say, My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore, I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.”
8. Read Romans 8:33-34 again. Who could accuse us before the Father? Who is constantly interceding for us? Do you remember what Dean Ortland said about “refresh?”
Satan can accuse us before the Father, but Jesus will take up our case in the highest court. He is constantly interceding for us. Every time the enemy accuses me, Jesus refreshes the justification button.
*9. Read Zechariah 3:1-5 about Israel’s own high priest standing before Him. What defense can be offered? How strong is this defense? Refer to 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Galatians 3:26-27 for an understanding of the new garments.
Jesus has already given us clean garments. He has exchanged our filthy garments with his robe of righteousness.
What about Revelation 19:14?
We will be dressed in fine linen, clean garments when we are in Heaven.
10. Paige told a pretty dramatic story about what she brought to show and tell. What was the point of her story?
Her tonsils story beat the story of the classmate who had a fancy plane! Just like the enemy trying to build his case against us. Then Jesus shows up and the enemy’s accusation went to naught.
*11. We sometimes talk about “covering” something or someone in prayer. Do we ever consider being “covered”? Think about what Romans 8 has told us about Who intercedes for us—vv. 26-27, 34 (Hebrews 7:23-25). Where is the Spirit (vv. 9-11)? Where is the Son (v. 34)? So is His intercession very personal and intimate? Or transcendent and powerful? Is there any aspect of our lives not “covered”?
Believers are covered by the intercession of the Holy Spirit who lives in us and of Christ who is seated at the right hand of God. His intercession is personal and intimate, transcendent and powerful. The Spirit intercedes for us according to God’s will therefore we are fully covered!
*B. Do you live your life in the insecurity of your love for God or in the assurance of His love for you?
I have to remind my soul that God’s love for me is limitless in height, depth, width, and length!
13. Paige told the story behind George Mathison’s Hymn “Oh Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go” Do you remember the story? How do the lyrics of that song help us overcome our sorrow when humans let us down?
He was going blind. His fiancée left him, and his only sister and primary caregiver died.
I found a little commentary about this song and this struck me: Dr. Matheson says this hymn was “written in the Manse of my former parish one summer evening in 1882. It was composed with extreme rapidity; it seemed to me that its construction occupied only a few minutes, and I felt myself rather in the position of one who was being dictated to than of an original artist I was suffering from extreme mental distress, and the hymn was the fruit of pain.”
What I particularly loved about this comment was the fruit of pain was seen in the words of the hymn. Dr. Matheson continued to look to God and saw Him for who He is in the midst of his pain. Steppingstones to glory, indeed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGAPkKXBQKI Beautiful acapella rendition of the song by a Youth Choir
*14. What do you FEEL like separates you from God’s love? When are you most prone and most quick to doubt or even deny His love?
When I do not understand why things are the way they are and not as they should be. But then I realize, do I really know what is right and what should be? And am glad that the question used the word “feel”. I need to counter “feel” with what I “know” about God’s love.
Thanks for the link to that hymn, Bing!
Love this rendition by the youth choir, Bing!
Thank you for sharing this link, Bing. What a beautiful rendition of this hymn. Love the visual artistry of the youth choir, the rocks and sea…..and the rainbow peeking through at one point in the hymn. Such beautiful words to remind us of His Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go. Love that He will not let us go!
Monday
*5. Read Colossians 1:15-20. Jesus is twice announced to be “the firstborn.” Of what? Given His rightful firstborn status in both of these ways, how does the purpose of His firstborn status in v. 29 show God’s amazing love for us? Refer back to v.17.
He is the firstborn of all creation- v 15 and from the dead- v18.
He is the firstborn among many brothers, which is who we are. I can’t imagine a greater love than being an offspring of the Son and being conformed to His image!
6. How many brothers does God show John he will have in Revelation 7:1-17? What does this number 144,000 symbolize?
144,000 and it symbolizes a lot of of brethren.
Tuesday
*7. In Romans 8: 31b-35a Paul poses 5 questions. They are all found to be rhetorical because each of them contains an included or attached truth that makes them “unanswerable” (J. Stott). Look at each—the question and the unshakeable truth. Conclude by sharing your answer to the question in v. 31a.
If God is for us, who can be against us? No one can successfully be against us.
8. Read Romans 8:33-34 again. Who could accuse us before the Father? Who is constantly interceding for us? Do you remember what Dean Ortland said about “refresh?”
Satan could accuse us.
Jesus is constantly interceding for us.
Orland said, “He is hitting refresh on our justification.”
Whoops….my answers to 9-11 posted up above as a reply….I must’ve accidentally done that!
Tuesday
*9. Read Zechariah 3:1-5 about Israel’s own high priest standing before Him. What defense can be offered? How strong is this defense? Refer to 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Galatians 3:26-27 for an understanding of the new garments. What about Revelation 19:14?
Satan is rebuked by the LORD. The defense is so strong that he is like a brand being pulled out of the fire, whose filthy clothes are removed and he is clothed with rich robes and a clean turban put on his head. Those united in Christ in baptism have put on Christ like new clothing. We are made right with God through Christ. The armies of heaven are dressed in the finest of pure white linen.
10. Paige told a pretty dramatic story about what she brought to show and tell. What was the point of her story?
She took tonsils for show and tell and topped off all the other ones…teacher got sick and dismissed class early. Satan shows up to the courtroom thinking his accusations will top them all, but Jesus shows up with resurrected scars and Satan throws up and leaves…nothing can top or supersede His love!
*11. We sometimes talk about “covering” something or someone in prayer. Do we ever consider being “covered”? Think about what Romans 8 has told us about Who intercedes for us—vv. 26-27, 34 (Hebrews 7:23-25). Where is the Spirit (vv. 9-11)? Where is the Son (v. 34)? So is His intercession very personal and intimate? Or transcendent and powerful? Is there any aspect of our lives not “covered”?
This is such a great question…we’re always being covered. The Holy Spirit, who is in us pleads for us with groaning and in accordance to God’s will and Christ who is sitting at the right hand of God is our advocate and lives forever to intercede with God on our behalf. His intercession is personal, intimate, transcendent and powerful and there is no aspect of our lives that isn’t covered. I will be honest, I have never thought about this before…how comforting and wonderful.
Love your response to 11. It is so comforting!
Sharon, what a picture to hold on to…. The devil stands accusing me, and it sounds like it will prevail. But then Jesus shows up with His resurrection scars. It causes the devil to ‘throw up and leave’.
Wednesday
12. Read Romans 8:35-39.
A. What is the promise?
Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.
*B. Do you live your life in the insecurity of your love for God or in the assurance of His love for you?
So many times it’s insecurity of my love for God, that’s when I think I’m in control. Remembering that He is in control, He knows best, helps me live in the assurance that He loves me.
13. Paige told the story behind George Mathison’s Hymn “Oh Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go” Do you remember the story? How do the lyrics of that song help us overcome our sorrow when humans let us down?
He was engaged to be married and found out that he was going blind and his future wife couldn’t be married to a blind man so she called off the engagement. His sister took care of him over the years. The night before his sister was to be married it brought back memories of his own heartbreak and he sat down and wrote the hymn in 5 minutes.
Oh love that will not let me goI rest my weary soul in theeI give thee back the life I oweThat in thine ocean depths its flowMay richer, fuller be
Oh light that followest all my wayI yield my flickering torch to theeMy heart restores its borrowed rayThat in thy sunshine’s blaze its dayMay brighter, fairer be
Oh joy that seekest me through painI cannot close my heart to theeI trace the rainbow through the rainAnd feel the promise is not vainThat morn shall tearless be
Oh cross that liftest up my headI dare not ask to fly from theeI lay in dust’s life’s glory deadAnd from the ground there blossoms redLife that shall endless be
The love of God will never let us go…Jesus has made us a perfect spotless bride.
*14. What do you FEEL like separates you fro God’s love? When are you most prone and most quick to doubt or even deny His love?
Sinning, living for self and allowing idols to be first place. When things aren’t going well, thinking that it must be because of something I did and why would He love me?
*5. Read Colossians 1:15-20. Jesus is twice announced to be “the firstborn.” Of what? Given His rightful firstborn status in both of these ways, how does the purpose of His firstborn status in v. 29 show God’s amazing love for us? Refer back to v.17.
He is the firstborn over creation and He is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead. He wanted us to be like Jesus, the first born, so we would be a part of Him. If we were part of Him then we would be with Him always.
6. How many brothers does God show John he will have in Revelation 7:1-17? What does this number 144,000 symbolize?
144,000….it symbolizes the 12 tribes and 12 disciples. It is all who believe.
Great on Revelaton, Laura!
*7. In Romans 8: 31b-35a Paul poses 5 questions. They are all found to be rhetorical because each of them contains an included or attached truth that makes them “unanswerable” (J. Stott). Look at each—the question and the unshakeable truth. Conclude by sharing your answer to the question in v. 31a.
Well, it is true that if God is for us no one can be against us, however, many will be against me here on Earth. But, for me, it only matters that God is pleased with me.
Right now, our country is so divided. It is sad. Even our families are splitting and much of the reason is all based in fear, not fact.
8. Read Romans 8:33-34 again. Who could accuse us before the Father? Who is constantly interceding for us? Do you remember what Dean Ortland said about “refresh?”
satan can accuse us before the Father. Jesus is constantly there, at the right hand of the Father, interceding for us. Everyone we mess up, the Father hit the refresh button!
*9. Read Zechariah 3:1-5 about Israel’s own high priest standing before Him. What defense can be offered? How strong is this defense? Refer to 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Galatians 3:26-27 for an understanding of the new garments. What about Revelation 19:14?
The defense is the washing of sin by God. It’s the strongest defense we have! We have new clothes! We have been washed clean by the blood of Jesus. Thank You Lord!! This study is helping me understand how much God loves me. I am blown away correlating all the scriptures together. It is amazing. I never knew how deep and wide. Oh, we can sing the songs and read the scriptures, BUT, this is powerful stuff. Thank you Dee and Paige!
10. Paige told a pretty dramatic story about what she brought to show and tell. What was the point of her story?
She had her tonsils and topped the best show and tell for the day! Her teacher threw up and everyone went home! The scars the Jesus bears top everything.
*11. We sometimes talk about “covering” something or someone in prayer. Do we ever consider being “covered”? Think about what Romans 8 has told us about Who intercedes for us—vv. 26-27, 34 (Hebrews 7:23-25). Where is the Spirit (vv. 9-11)? Where is the Son (v. 34)? So is His intercession very personal and intimate? Or transcendent and powerful? Is there any aspect of our lives not “covered”?
The Holy Spirit is within us. Jesus is at the right hand of God. His intercession is within us and next to the Father. It is personal and intimate AND transcendent and powerful. No aspect of our lives is left uncovered. Thank You Jesus!
Your answer to *9 is so perfect!! It is all so deep and wide and I just keep learning more and leaning more into Jesus. Amen to all you wrote!
Amen to Patti — your answer to 9 makes me so happy, Laura.
Time for an interlude….
https://youtu.be/dhU-Omwg2rU
Laura, maybe not so much an interlude as completely undoing me before the God who has been, is, and will continue to be more gracious to me than I can comprehend. Thank you.
Thursday
15. Paige told about St John Chrysostom being brought before the emperor and threatened by him in many ways. Do you remember how he responded when told he would be banished, that his riches would be taken, and that he would have no friends?
I remember her telling this story but didn’t write it down so looked it up (cheated).
Threatened with banishment he responds…You cannot banish me, for the world is my Father’s house.
But I will kill you…No, you cannot, for my life is hid with Christ in God.
I will take away your treasure…No, you cannot, for my treasure is in heaven and my heart is there.
But I will drive you away from your friends and you will have no one left…No, you cannot, for I have a Friend in heaven from whom you cannot separate me. I defy you. For there is nothing you can do to harm me.
This is an interesting article about it… https://olddeadguys.com/2017/11/12/chrysostoms-reply-to-eudoxia/
16. As you look carefully at the words in Romans 8:37, what is the promise? What is not the promise?
Overwhelming victory is ours through Christ who loved us.
That we can be separated from the love of Christ and we have no victory.
17. Paige quoted Lewis several times.
A. Once, in Narnia, when the children were so afraid their “faces were like cold gravy” what happened to overcome their fears?
B. In the Great Divorce Lewis writes: “Heaven, once attained, will work backwards and turn even agony into a glory.” What does that mean. How does that give you hope?
18. Do you remember Paige’s conversation with her 4 year old daughter? What was the point?
She asked her Mom if she thought she was awesome and she took her face in her hands and said I think you’re awesome.
To give her an assurance of her love for her.
19. What assurance of God’s love can you find in Revelation 5:9-10?
That Jesus Christ who shed His blood and ransomed us, causing us to become a Kingdom of priests and reigning with God is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals.
Thanks for looking that up, Sharon!
Yes, thank you, Sharon, for the link.
2. Name an area where you tend to be anxious and speak to your soul based on what you know about God’s love.
I tend to be anxious when I wonder about whether I will do a good job on some responsibility, this follows from my idol of approval of man.
As I reflect on God’s love that is so high,so deep, so wide and so strong, I realize that He loves me no matter how I perform and He is my advocate, who is sitting at the right hand of God! He loved me first from eternity and made a commitment for me, then I made a commitment to Him. I am so thankful and I am so safe in His care.
3. Romans 8:28-39, what stands out? If God is on our side, who can ever be against us?
4. How do we define good? Good is what is declared so by God! A good life is pleasing to God, that is a life that honors Him in all things. He works all things for our good- to conform us to the image of Jesus, to be more like him. Our trust is not in earthly goods or pleasures, but rather the heavenly treasures.I do pray for this.
What if God desires this good, but it just never happens for us? Philippians 1:6 He who began a good work will complete it in you.I believe this promise and I know it will take a lifetime and an eternity, but it is true, He will!
From Shirley: “I realize He loves me no matter how I perform.”
This is spot on and so simple and straight forward. How I pray for this too. Thank you, Shirley. “A good life is pleasing to God, that is a life that honors Him in all things. He works all things for our good- to conform us to the image of Jesus, to be more like him. Our trust is not in earthly goods or pleasures, but rather the heavenly treasures. I do pray for this.”
And Amen to Dee’s comment. So thankful He loves me, even when I don’t perform well.
Shirley, yes, He loves us no matter how we perform. Philippians 1: 6 is my prayer verse for my daughter. He will complete what He has started in us!
5. Jesus is the firstborn of what?
Jesus is the firstborn both of creation and from among the dead. Is this a way of saying of both the living and the dead? However you interpret it, firstborn here refers not to chronological birth order, which is an error Jehovah Witnesses make, but rather that He holds the legal right of first privilege and primary heir. It means He is before all creation and before all who get raised from the dead. That He rules over both. His purpose in being both was to buy us and present us to the Father perfect in Himself. In that place, we are with Him intimately forever.
6. How many brothers will there be? What does the number symbolize?
It is a great number with ties to both the Old Testament tribes of Israel and the New Testament disciples, showing the inclusion of all believers. It is more than are worth taking the trouble to count.
7. Romans 8:31b-35a. Paul’s five rhetorical questions.
Each time, Paul is contrasting who God is and what He has done for us with the questions that come up in our own minds about whether we are secure in God or not. And each time, the logic is that nothing can take us away from God. So our response to when the questions come, whether from the world, the flesh or the devil, needs to be the truths of Scripture. Nothing can take us away from Him.
8. Romans 8:33-34. What did Dane Ortlund say about ‘refresh’?
He said that no matter how many times we are attacked before God, Jesus is always ‘refreshing’ God’s memory and awareness of how Jesus covered our sin with His blood.
Thursday: Weight of Glory
15. Paige told about St John Chrysostom being brought before the emperor and threatened by him in many ways. Do you remember how he responded when told he would be banished, that his riches would be taken and that he would have no friends? St. john responded to the emperor by countering his supposed punishment with the Word of God and the riches that he has in Christ. His response is evidence of his knowledge of the truth.
16. As you look carefully at the words in Romans 8:37, what is the promise? What is not the promise?
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
We are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
It did not promise that we will not receive accusations and condemnation from the enemy. It did not promise that we are more than conquerors by ourselves.
17. Paige quoted Lewis several times.
A. Once, in Narnia, when the children were so afraid their “faces were like cold gravy” what happened to overcome their fears?
Aslan came!
B. In the Great Divorce Lewis writes: “Heaven, once attained, will work backwards and turn even agony into a glory.” What does that mean? How does that give you hope?
Every pain, sorrow, suffering will be naught because of the promise in Romans 8:28
18. Do you remember Paige’s conversation with her 4-year-old daughter? What was the point?
Her 4-year-old asked Paige if Paige thinks she is awesome. And after Paige said she is, she held Paige’s cheeks and said, “I know you think it!”
When we come to God and ask what He thinks of us, we KNOW He thinks we are awesome! “You are the apple of my eye,” says the Father to us. Deuteronomy 32:10; Zechariah 2:8
“The apple of one’s eye originally referred to the central aperture of the eye. Figuratively it is something, or more usually someone, cherished above others.”
From the Cinderella movie:
Do I love you because you’re beautiful?Or are you beautifulbecause I love you?Am I making believe I see in youA girl too lovely tobe really true?Do I want you because you’re wonderful?Or are you wonderfulBecause I want you?
I am wonderfully and beautifully awesome because God loves me!
19. What assurance of God’s love can you find in Revelation 5:9-10?
I have been purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ and will reign in the new earth and new heaven as a kingdom of priests to serve God. I have been purchased from the “slavery block” to have the freedom that Christ paid for me through his blood.
Friday:
20. What is your take-a-way and why?
That God loves me, and nothing can separate me from His love nor can the enemy bring any accusation or condemnation on me. Everything that God brings about or allows in my life rises from His great love and mercy to me.
Dear Bing,
This is all so sweet and precious:
When we come to God and ask what He thinks of us, we KNOW He thinks we are awesome! “You are the apple of my eye,” says the Father to us. Deuteronomy 32:10; Zechariah 2:8
“The apple of one’s eye originally referred to the central aperture of the eye. Figuratively it is something, or more usually someone, cherished above others.”
12. Read Romans 8:35-39.
A. What is the promise? Nothing, nothing, nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
*B. Do you live your life in the insecurity of your love for God or in the assurance of His love for you? I pray that I daily live it in the assurance of His love for me. When I slip and slide, or I feel a great attack from the evil one, I feel wobbly! I pray for the Holy Spirit to intercede! I love to picture Aslan roaring and the enemy disappearing! In my notes from Paige’s lecture: The lens that we look through is important. I want to always look through the lens of God’s will and know that He can use my failures and suffering as Steps to Glory. Another note from Paige: We will not escape bad things, we will conquer in them.
13. Paige told the story behind George Mathison’s Hymn “Oh Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go” Do you remember the story? How do the lyrics of that song help us overcome our sorrow when humans let us down? We have the assurance of God’s Love always and everywhere. His love is stronger than anything we go through. Testimonies of those in the deepest pain, mean the most because Christ is deeper still.
*14. What do you FEEL like separates you from God’s love? When are you most prone and most quick to doubt or even deny His love? When I sin, I feel separated from God. Another note from Paige’s lecture: Sin is the ultimate killer. It is the only thing that can separate us from God. (Romans Chapters 1-3). It is the great divider. Only unatoned for Sin can separate us from God. Jesus was separated and abandoned by the Father so that we may never be. The knowledge of the sin of my earthy self brings me to my knees. It also helps me to see how much love and grace the Lord has given to me. I pray that I may have much love and grace for others. I love that we conquer through His power, His love, His strength. I need that every hour!
Love this whole post, Patti!
11. We talk about ‘covering’ with prayer. Two things come to mind. One is an umbrella. You see and hear in public about being covered by an umbrella, meaning having a blanket protection from something, like an insurance risk, for example. Which makes me relate it to a shield, and Scripture repeatedly says God is our shield. The other thing that immediately popped into my mind was from The Lord of The Rings, when a couple of Hobbits are given cloaks made by the elves. When they pulled those cloaks over themselves, they blended into the background so well, the enemy couldn’t see them. When we cover something in prayer, I think what we’re doing is similar to the things above. We are asking God to totally guard and care for that situation. Of course, if we move out from God’s protection, then we are exposing ourselves. I may have gotten totally off topic here…
Is His intercession personal and intimate, or transcendent and powerful? Both.
Is there any aspect of our lives not covered? No, though I do think we can move out of His perfect will in rebellion and He may choose to partially hold back His full protection, wanting us to see our folly and return to Him.
14. What do I feel separates me from God’s love? When am I most prone to doubt or even deny His love?
Probably when I sin; I feel so discouraged and disgusted with myself. And I project those feelings onto Him. The image of God hitting ‘refresh’ is so good! Very helpful to remind myself with.
The quote you put between questions, from Chrysostom, I wish I could program into my brain!!
Love your great analogies about “covered”, Mary! Word pictures always stay in my head!
I wish I could programs The Chrysostom quote in my brain too!
Friday
20. What is your take-a-way and why?
I think what Paige brought home this week was, it is one thing to be loved – it’s another to know it. For those times within my own mind that I’ve done something and think God can’t possibly still love me, I will go to Romans 8…it leaves you without a doubt! He will always love stinky eyed me!
He will always love stinky eyed me! (FROM LAURA)
12. Read Romans 8:35-39.
A. What is the promise?
The promise is that nothing can separate us from Christ’s love.
*B. Do you live your life in the insecurity of your love for God or in the assurance of His love for you?
Probably both. As I have grown in my knowledge of the Word, I have realized how much He loves me. However, the old ways still remain deeply ground inside; do I pray enough? Am I kind enough? Do I love people enough? Do I care enough?
13. Paige told the story behind George Mathison’s Hymn “Oh Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go” Do you remember the story? How do the lyrics of that song help us overcome our sorrow when humans let us down?
George was to be married but at 20 was losing his eyesight. His fiancé decided she didn’t want to be married to a blind man. His sister ended up taking care of him until she was to be married. The day of her wedding he wrote this hymn, he says, in five minutes! He said he had a “mental suffering” and it all came to him at once. His realization was that God would not leave him though others would.
*14. What do you FEEL like separates you fro God’s love? When are you most prone and most quick to doubt or even deny His love?
Sin separates me. I mentioned a meeting I had a couple of days ago. I pushed because I believe there is harm to children being done in our schools. Because I pushed, I upset someone. I tried to be calm and succinct. I wonder if God doesn’t want me to push sometimes? It’s when I feel uncomfortable inside that I worry I have messed up with God.
Laura, I think it’s okay to state your opinion, if you feel strongly about it. You tried to be calm and succinct. We can state what we believe and do it in a way that is not attacking another person or threatening them.
12. Read Romans 8:35-39
A. What is the promise?
The promise is that there is nothing that can separate us from God’s love.
B. Do you live your life in the insecurity of your love for God or in the assurance of His love for you?
I live in both places, truthfully. I vacillate between feeling secure and insecure. I’ve never thought of it this way, however; that when I feel insecure, it is because I am in the insecurity of my love for God.
13. Paige told the story behind George Matheson’s hymn “O Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go”. Do you remember the story? How do the lyrics of that song help us overcome our sorrow when humans let us down?
George was going blind. When he told his fiance, she broke off their engagement. George went on to work and write for the next twenty years, as a blind man and having his sister as his companion and caregiver. Then, his sister announced her engagement to be married. George was devastated. In despair, he went to his room and wrote this hymn in one hour. The lyrics are about finding God, His love, and hope even in our darkest times of despair. George wrote lines like “I rest my weary soul in Thee.” “O Joy that seekest me through pain, I cannot close my heart to Thee.” “I trace the rainbow through the rain.”
14. What do you FEEL like separates you from God’s love? When are you most prone and most quick to doubt or even to deny His love?
Shame over something I’ve done makes me feel separated from His love. Shame says, not only did I do something bad, I AM bad. Have you ever unintentionally cut off another driver? I have. Then, when I realized what I’d done, though unintentionally, and I saw the other driver making nasty gestures at me and mouthing obscenities, I felt shame. Surely, God must be agreeing as to what a loser I am! It’s that kind of feeling when I sin, when my sin is pointed out to me by another.
Or, when I am having difficulty sensing His presence, which is a lot. I wonder, why is He silent? I have heard that Mother Teresa, after hearing clearly from God in her life, (some say she had the experience of locution, which means she actually audibly heard God’s voice) then experienced silence for the next fifty years. The more she longed for His presence, the more empty and desolate she felt. She did not abandon her faith or her work, but it must have been really hard for her to live like that.
That is interesting about Mother Theresa. She asked that her prayer diary be kept private so she could be honest with God but of course it was published post-humously. People were shocked she had times of doubt and struggling! I thought, They must have never read the psalms!
15. Paige told about Saint John Chrysostom being brought before the emperor and threatened by him in many ways. Do you remember how he responded when told he would be banished, that his riches would be taken, and that he would have no friends?
I don’t remember word for word, but in response to banishment, he said that it would be impossible because the whole world is God’s house. Riches – you can’t take them away because they’re in heaven where my heart is, and God is his closest friend.
16. As you look carefully at the words in Romans 8:37, what is the promise? What is not the promise?
“No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ Jesus.” It does not promise that these things listed previously will not touch you, but they cannot separate you from God’s love, and they are stepping stones to glory.
17. Paige quoted Lewis several times.
A. Once, in Narnia, when the children were so afraid their “faces were like cold gravy” what happened to overcome their fears?
Aslan appeared.
B. In the Great Divorce Lewis writes: “Heaven, once attained, will work backwards and turn even agony into a glory.” What does that mean? How does that give you hope?
Maybe it means not that our sufferings in this life will be erased or that we will not have any memory of them, but they will be swallowed up in His love, glory, and the unimaginable joy of being in His presence. In a previous lecture, Paige quoted Lewis: “What is glory? It’s fame with God. Finally and fully pleasing the One we were created to please.” So perhaps the “turn even agony into a glory” is speaking about our glory.
18. Do you remember Paige’s conversation with her 4 year old daughter? What was the point?
After getting herself ready for preschool and even putting on makeup, Paige’s daughter asked her, “Mommy, do you think I’m awesome?” When Paige answered yes, her daughter put her hands on her mommy’s face and replied, “I know you think it!” (The point being she did not reply, “So are you, Mommy!”)
Paige said we need to be convinced of God’s love and acceptance for us that we can put our hands on God’s cheeks and say to Him, “I know You do!”
19. What assurance of God’s love can you find in Revelation 5:9-10?
It is Jesus who was killed, and His blood that has ransomed us for God, and caused us to become God’s kingdom and His priests.
20. What is your take-away and why?
Paige talked about how, despite everything we know about God’s love for us, we always come up with questions and doubts….”But what if….but what about?” So, where do I run when I am doubting God’s love? She gave a powerful quote from John Piper which gave a metaphorical example of living inside the promises of Romans 8 as if you were living inside a strong building with indestructible pillars holding it up. Part of the quote is, “If you live inside the massive promise, your life is more stable than Mount Everest. Nothing can blow you over if you are inside the walls of Romans 8:28. Outside is confusion, fear, and anxiety. There are straw houses of drugs, pornography, and dozens of meaningless, futile diversions. There are thousands of substitutes. Inside, you simply can’t be blown over.”
So I may feel that I am outside of God’s love, but the truth is that I am inside, always. However, if I don’t believe that I am, I will turn to substitutes, and Piper named many….all things that we put our trust in to make us feel secure, but all straw houses that can be blown down and away at any moment. Right now, I know a woman whose husband has turned to one of those straw houses, a diversion, and while they have not yet uncovered the root cause of why, it may have something to do with the decline of his physical health and feeling the resulting threat to his personhood, or manhood, due to physical limitations. He is being blown over because he is not living inside the house. While my substitutes are not as extreme, they are substitutes nonetheless, and I try to live in my own carefully constructed straw houses, and all the while the wind is blowing through the cracks and threatening to collapse everything. My take-away then, is to remind myself to go inside! Go inside the walls of Romans 8:28.
15. Paige told about St John Chrysostom being brought before the emperor and threatened by him in many ways. Do you remember how he responded when told he would be banished, that his riches would be taken, and that he would have no friends?
I didn’t write anything down for this (this is why it would be good to be able to go back and review, but I barely have time to listen once 😔).
I’m guessing he said that was fine? He didn’t need anything from earth because his true life was beyond this place.
16. As you look carefully at the words in Romans 8:37, what is the promise? What is not the promise?
Christ’s victory is the promise. He loves us. That it will be easy is not the promise.
17. Paige quoted Lewis several times.
B. In the Great Divorce Lewis writes: “Heaven, once attained, will work backwards and turn even agony into a glory.” What does that mean. How does that give you hope?
God is always working for our good. Sometimes He allows what He hates for the good of us. The wind is blowing but it won’t blow us over. We are being confirmed to the image of His Son. In the end, I will be blessed.
18. Do you remember Paige’s conversation with her 4 year old daughter? What was the point?
This was when her daughter got herself all “made up” and she told Paige she looked awesome (or something like that). No matter the mess, we are awesome in His eyes!
19. What assurance of God’s love can you find in Revelation 5:9-10?
He will open the scroll, accept the believers who will then be a kingdom of priests.