What will it be like to see Jesus face to face?
What will we be like?
What will the new heaven and new earth be like?
We are given pictures, yet, as the song says, “I can only imagine.”
C. S. Lewis will help fuel our imagination at the end of the week.
This is one idea from John Eldredge.
What will we really be like? This is what we know for certain:
The whole creation is on tiptoe to see the sons of God coming into their own.
Romans 8:19 (JBP)
We are in process now, and there is a strong relationship between suffering and glorification. The fires of suffering can refine us, making us more like Jesus.
This week will be exciting, as we ponder our sure hope, and wonder what it will be like.
Remember to get “The Last Battle” from the Narnia Series and read the last two chapters.
The last battle draws much inspiration from the book of Revelation — there is someone who pretends to be Aslan, but is not and deceives many. But those who belong to the true Aslan are safe.
Next week’s lecture:
Questions in Purple are for those simultaneously reviewing Revelation 1-11.
Questions preceded by a * are Paige’s.
Sunday: Getting Started
- What stands out to you from the above and why? How did you interpret the John Eldredge clip?
Monday: Revelation of Glory (To us, In us, About us, For us)
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from the 2nd half of Paige’s lecture.
3. Read Romans 8:18-21
A. What does Paul consider in verse 18? How has this perspective, if it has, helped you to suffer well? Be specific if possible.
B. What insight does 1 Corinthians 15:42 tell us about our new selves?
C. Paige told a story about going out to lunch with a beautiful model — do you remember it and her point?
Paige said that God is making His new creation “fit” for His transformed children. She quoted J. B. Phillips paraphase of verse 19, which is:
The whole creation is on tiptoe to see the sons of God coming into their own.
D. What thoughts do you have on verse 19, from the above paraphrase or your own translation?
E. Who subjected all of creation to futility, and why, according to verses 20-21?
F. Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, storms — all are examples of God subjecting His creation to frustration. How has this specifically affected you — was your heart made harder or were you refined? Specific examples please!
4. How can you see God subjecting the creation to frustration in the blowing of the first four trumpets? (See Revelation 8:6-13)
Tuesday: Relationship between Suffering and Glorification
*5. Read 2 Corinthians 4:14-18
A. How do these verses echo the call to hope?
B. How is it encouraged by comparion (v. 17)? Of sight? Of length of time? Or weightiness?
C. How are we to regard our lives in the present? (See both 2 Corin. 4:7 and 4:17)
D. Meditate on the word incomparable in verse 17 (or “beyond all comparison”) What point is being made?
*6. Continue reading in 2 Corinthians 5:1-5
A. What causes the groaning in this passage? Is it a lack of faith? An abandonment by God?
B. Is our groaning caused by our frustration with the present and a heart fixed on God or by our fixation on the present and frustration with God? (Where is Joni’s heart fixed according to Paige’s illustration?)
Wednesday: Groaning Because of Expectation
7. Paige contrasted grumbling and murmuring with groaning. What is the difference? Why are the first two sin and the last actually positive? How might you apply this?
8. Read Romans 8:22-28
A. Who is groaning and why according to verses 22-25?
B. Paige’s brother is an obstetrician and she told a story of a woman in a hard labor and the name she gave to her baby. She talked about suffering and glorification being inseparable. How do you see this in this story? In your life?
*C. Why is Romans 8:26-27 an encouragement and not a discouragement to pray? Does prayer require our strength? Our wisdom? Our insight? Certain words? Can our imperfect hurt others or ourselves? How do these verses fan our hope into flame?
Thursday: New Heaven, New Earth, New Us!
*9. God will transform this earth into a new earth FOR US. What will it be like? Share any passages you know. Consider Isaiah 11:6-9 in the Old Testament and Revelation 21:1-7, 22:1-5 in the New. And then brainstorm. What are you most excited about? Remember that we cannot imagine MORE than He has for us (1 Cor. 2:9).
*10. Read John 14:1-4. Again, He is preparing a place FOR US. What is its purpose? What is the center of our eternal joy in that place (v.3b)?
*11. And what will WE be like? Or rather WHOM will we be like? See John 17:22-26, Colossians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:1-2. Further reflect on 1 Corinthians 15:42-55 for your own encouragement and HOPE.
12. Read the last two chapters of C. S. Lewis’ “The Last Battle.” Here are some quotes — let them fuel your imagination. Do you resonate with them? If so, how?
A. The term is over. The holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning.
B. That was not the real Narnia. That had a beginning and end. It was only a shadow or a copy of the real Narnia which has always been here and always will be here.
C. It reminds me of somewhere but I can’t give it a name. Could it be somewhere we once stayed for a holiday when we were very, very small?
D. Have you noticed one can’t feel afraid, even if one wants to? Try it.
E. The current was racing away behind you, but you were such a wonderful swimmer that you could make headway against it.
F. I have come home at last! This is my real country! I belong here. This is the land I have been looking for all my life, though I never knew it till now…Come further up, come further in!
G. Share a quote you love.
H. Revelation students — what parallels did you see?
Friday:
13. What is your take-a-way and why?
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Sunday: Getting Started
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
a. I listened to the song,” I can only imagine” and the chorus brought so much yearning in my heart for that Day!
Surrounded by Your glory, what will my heart feel
Will I dance for you Jesus or in awe of you be still
Will I stand in your presence or to my knees will I fall
Will I sing hallelujah, will I be able to speak at all
I can only imagine.
But for the meantime: “But courage, child, we are all in the paws of the true Aslan”.
We are kept safe! Jude 1:1-2 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, to those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ: Mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance.
[Nothing]… can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:39
b. Refining is necessary if we want to reflect Jesus’ image.
There never is a day when I am not made more aware of my need for refining. When days are good, they can be a temptation to think that I have arrived so the Lord gently brings along some “suffering” so I am reminded of my need for His help. I can look at my suffering again and see no curse in it. Only the refining process for my good and for His glory.
Bing, I love that song and it goes through my head a lot. “I Can Only Imagine”! Yes, the refining hurts, but so important. I love that we are in the paws of the true Aslan. 🙂 I agree that I am very aware of my need for refining daily. My first prayer of the day is often “Lord I need you to get through this day; without falling flat on my face.” I so need Him every hour. I Need Thee Every Hour is another hymn that has been going through my head lately.
Oh Bing, this song always brings tears and even more so after I watched the movie. Bart’s father was very abusive and an alcoholic, but did come to the Lord. I really felt that for Bart, he was imagining a perfect place with a perfect Father!
Also, love the scripture!!
1. What stood out in the introduction and why?
“We are in process now, and there is a strong relationship between suffering and glorification. The fires of suffering can refine us… necessary if we want to reflect the image of Jesus Christ.” For some reason, I keep thinking about Susan’s struggle with whether or not God causes suffering. For a different group I’m part of, we are reading Trusting God by Jerry Bridges. If I could, Susan, I’d recommend that to you as a deep and comprehensive look at God’s sovereignty.
About the John Eldridge clip. I think the woman is waking up in heaven (though maybe some would see her as in the unresponsiveness of death). She slowly becomes aware that she is someplace different, new, but beautiful. I get the impression she had been old and crippled but now is young and beautiful. She keeps looking at her dark hair and young skin, marveling at her ability to move her hands freely and to stand up and walk. She is drawn to the curtained door, hearing waves, wind and children’s voices. With one small glance back, she walks through the door and you see her no more. I liked the feeling of awe and wonder and that what you’re leaving is no more than a nice room, while you are walking out into this bright entire world. I think the awe and wonder are accurate. Personally, not so much the rest. That is just my personal take.
I love your take on this Mary! Beautiful thoughts!
Mary, for some reason, it seems like we are reading a few of the same books. I love Jerry Bridges-he was such a deep, thoughtful godly man. I am not yet sure of what to think of the clip from John Eldridge. All I can think of right now is the woman going through the curtained window. That part gave me such sweet peace. I would also like to see a rendition of the same but with a man instead of a woman. It was still a beautiful scene though we know it would only be an echo of what is to come. Paige said that we can overimagine and it is okay! I love that!
Mary, thanks for the book referral…will put it on my list.
I am ordering that book too, Mary! Thank you for the great recommendation! xo
Thank you for the book recommendation, Mary. The “why” of suffering is a mystery that we will never completely understand, yet the daily decision we have is to trust that God is good, whether we are in a time of suffering or not!
Sunday: Getting Started
What stands out to you from the above and why? How did you interpret the John Eldredge clip? I have always loved the comparison of God refining us in the fire. Going through the process is so painful and hard to understand. I always think of Corrie ten Boom describing our lives like a weaving. From the back side it is a mess of tangled threads, but what God sees on the other side is a Golden Crown. The glory that awaits us after the furnace of fire. Always hard to grasp, but looking backward on life we can see how He was walking with us that entire time. I love the John Eldredge clip. I imagined that she was seeing her body that had been old, or crippled, or ridden with disease~ and she awakened to see it new~ she left her journal (her worldly belonging) and got up, a young, beautiful, healthy and whole woman and walked through the curtain to glory. What a beautiful clip….brings me lots of tears….it is the way I envision my mother when she left the earth. She was in an adult care home for about 16 weeks before she went to heaven…it was about 8 minutes directly west of our home. We were praying for her and with her the night before she went to heaven; then telling her it was okay if she wanted to go. She had said for the previous two days (and she was lucid) that two nights in a row, an angel had appeared to her, waiting to walk her over the bridge to heaven. We hugged her as she slept, then we went home. It was hot and humid night…the air very still all night. The next morning at 6:02 a huge refreshing breeze came through our open bedroom window! I immediately sat up….the dogs (who normally get me up at 5 am) were asleep and woke up and I said “Wow, that cool breeze feels good; I think that was GG going to heaven.” I knew she was gone….I jumped in the shower and as I got out the phone rang…my daughter, who was visiting, said “Who could that be?” I told her it was Leah from the home calling about GG. It was…and Leah was crying…I told Leah, “it is okay and I know why you are calling.” She told me she had checked GG at 5:30 and she was breathing and at 6:15 when she checked, she was gone. I knew the Lord gave be that tiny peek at His Glory, because He knew how devastated how was going to be when she died. Sorry for the long tale, but it was such a gift I will never forget….yes, I am sobbing.
Oh Patti,
That’s a beautiful story. I can just picture you with the fresh breeze and knowing. I love that she had those visions of an angel wanting to walk her home.
Patti, dear friend! What a gift that was from God to feel that cool breeze about the time your Mom went to Heaven. I like to imagine that when the Lord welcomes His children in Heaven that their loved ones are blessed with something special on earth. A cool breeze, a special sighting, a recognizable smell. I was told when Mom took her last breath, she had her arms raised up. I would like to think she saw Jesus. Now, I am crying, too.
Patti, such a sweet memory…a kiss from the King!
Dee, Bing and Sharon~ It truly was a kiss from the King and so unexpected. It made me think how quickly and unexpected His return will be. My mom lived with us for 14 years after my dad died (very suddenly). She was alone in Minneapolis and did not drive. My husband invited her to live with us and it was a very lovely time and so hard to have her leave us. I think the Lord knew I needed that. I love that your mom was reaching out to Jesus. What a blessing from our Lord Jesus. He is so good.
Such beautiful stories of your Mothers, Patti and Bing
Patti, what a beautiful, incredible story about your mom’s passing! I know the pain of losing your mom, as I’ve lost mine, too….what an amazing “peek” into His glory….and that your mom told you about seeing the angel! It must’ve been, and continues to be, a great comfort to you. Thank you for sharing.
It has continued to comfort me, Susan. I am sorry that you have lost your mom, too. It is so hard. I am sure you have been a huge comfort to patients in your nursing career. Being a nurse is being an “earthly angel”.
Sunday
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? How did you interpret the John Eldredge clip?
This week will be exciting, as we ponder our sure hope, and wonder what it will be like.
I like this quote from a local pastor, “If you’ve lost hope, it’s because you’ve lost your curiosity that there might be something else ahead of you, that’s beautiful, and good, and full, and free.” ~ Michael Ashcroft
I interpreted the clip of a woman going from death to glory, coming out of labor. She is still the same person but changed, healed and new. When she looked at her fingers it reminded me of my Mom who’s body was riddled with rheumatoid arthritis and almost blind with macular degeneration. I can only imagine seeing her again one day healed and new!
Yes — I love that thought about your mom. Mine too!
I love the quote by Michael Ashcroft, Sharon. Beautiful thoughts about your mom. We can only Imagine.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
“there is a strong relationship between suffering and glorification. The fires of suffering can refine us, making us more like Jesus”
At church this morning my Pastor referenced John 14:3 and I cried through the end of service. I have always had a longing for Heaven, a sense of my Homesickness, and through some trials over the last few weeks the promise of Home has been the only thing to give me peace.
OK, and honestly I didn’t love the clip–didn’t hate it, I just think for me, I have imagined Home so many times it’s too personal for me to watch someone try to give image to it. I’d rather hold on to my own if that makes sense. A bit over-thinking as usual, sorry!
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from the 2nd half of Paige’s lecture.
I loved this lecture so much I have listened multiple times. It’s amazing the timing of it in my personal life. I have been struggling with some things that in an earthly sense have left me feeling “orphaned” from my biological earthly family of origin and extended family. But in His mercy I have been soaking in my identity as His adopted child.
I loved the groaning of the world, the Holy Spirit, of us—that it is right for us to groan for Him, I feel that so much lately. We should not grumble or murmur but we groan.
I love how she talked about suffering—it is proof of our adoption. It is proof that we are precious to Him. We follow Him into suffering and it brings a nearness that nothing else does. Suffering is the path to glory, they are inseparable. Be honest about suffering and look to the promised glory., it erupts from the suffering.
3. Read Romans 8:18-21
A. What does Paul consider in verse 18? How has this perspective, if it has, helped you to suffer well? Be specific if possible.
I am clinging to the perspective this promise brings. I honestly feel it is keeping me going. I long to be Home with Jesus, and not just so the bad will go away, but more, really, to just hide in His arms and feel that love, acceptance, and that yes, all the hard is untrue.
In our sermon today at church my Pastor said we all have a “box” as Christians of the things that don’t make sense, the things we have to trust in faith that One Day He will make right. But when we get to Heaven, that box disappears because all of the doubts and questions are gone, He makes all things new.
B. What insight does 1 Corinthians 15:42 tell us about our new selves?
Our bodies will be imperishable, eternal.
C. Paige told a story about going out to lunch with a beautiful model — do you remember it and her point?
She’s sitting with her friend and a man stops by and says he’s a huge fan…Paige jokes that he could have meant her, but she said of course you would know he was talking about her friend because her beauty was obvious. When we are with Him we will be like Him and our glory and beauty will be obvious to the universe.
D. What thoughts do you have on verse 19, from the above paraphrase or your own translation?
I love that translation of creation being on tiptoe to see the sons of God coming into their own. I had never thought of it this way, that creation has been restrained but how it longs o burst forth and see the glory.
E. Who subjected all of creation to futility, and why, according to verses 20-21?
God subjected creation to futility after the Fall of Adam and Eve. But One Day it will be restored and freed.
F. Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, storms — all are examples of God subjecting His creation to frustration. How has this specifically affected you — was your heart made harder or were you refined? Specific examples please!
Do you mean literally these types of storms? I have been spared, amazingly from physical storms like those. But emotional and relational storms have been frequent in my life and even now in the midst of another, I feel a certain blessing, nearness to Him. In listening this week I thought of my suffering as a “birthmark” to being His.
Lizzy, it is good to see you here. and this is beautiful- “In listening this week I thought of my suffering as a “birthmark” to being His.” wow-I did not think of that before! I thought of one of the Nancy Drew books I read-of a prince that was finally reunited with his grandmother, the queen. And the identifying mark was located on the sole of one of his feet! Even though he lived incognito for a while and people knew him only as an artist, he has always been a prince. How so like us! We have always been chosen and are children of God and we are clearly identified, and marked by our suffering.
Peace to you in the midst of your present “storm”, sweet friend.
oh dear Bing–love this story and Nancy Drew, made me smile! Love you
Lizzy, I understand how you feel about the clip! I think we all have our own images of what it will be like. Vernon McGee shared that he imagined that he’d be able to go throughout the whole universe and explore the different planets. It would be fun to hear what we’d each imagine.
So good to see you here❤️
Sharon, love the imagination of Vernon McGee! Personally I am imagining beautiful music!! Probably dancing, too, like Laura’s !
Lizzy — so thankful these lectures are ministering you as you feel orphaned!
Dear sweet Lizzy, how good to see you back and to read these beautiful responses. You are not over-thinking at all. Yes, the clip did have a bit of a down side, because we did not really see anything “Glorious” like being swept through the clouds and blue skies with an angel leading us to Jesus. (One of my images). I kind of thought it was a transforming moment, leaving her life (the journal which was done and complete) here, to begin as a new being…so it was kind of bittersweet. Your pastor’s sermon sounds so good~ I just read John 14:3 and am feeling somewhat like you~ a bit orphaned and like I don’t belong anywhere right now. Family issues can be cruel and devastating. I am thankful that my adopted daughters have been such a good support. I long for the promise of that heavenly home fulfilled too. I pray for you so often, as I think you are going through things similar to what I went through in my younger years. You are a beautiful woman in all ways, with a heart for Jesus. It is so crazy, how some people can turn that upside down. I think that is the world right now and even people who don’t acknowledge Jesus as Lord are seeing that things are not quite right anywhere. But, we have the Lord and He is real, true, mighty and our warrior. We Are in the Paws of the True Aslan. I will keep praying for you.
You and Lizzy do share a common hurt — and you are both so lovely. I pray for that connection to grow.
oh Patti. You are reminding me how much He loves me that He has put you in my life at this time. Your words here brought instant tears because I am so drawn to your wisdom and feel so connected without every having met. He is so good. I have continued to pray for you as well. A few months ago when I added you to my card over my bathtub…it’s funny, all the other names I had written in pencil. The day I added you I just grabbed something to write with and it was bright pink ink. So every night your name leaps off the card in bright pink and I smile and pray for healing in your family and strength and for His peace to wash over you. Love you~
Lizzy, it’s so sweet you have the “…card over the bathtub.” People appreciate prayers 😉.
Dear Lizzy! I am crying reading your words! I have not had access to my computer for a couple of days… so I am just now catching up. I love the pink ink. 🙂 I do feel a connection with you and I hope we are able to meet someday. I am praying for you and all of your family connections to be healed by our Heavenly Father. I continue to pray for peace in your heart, as well…and strength for each day. I know that the Lord has His timing and sometimes it seems like it takes a long time. I am trusting daily and praying that we will both be able to focus on what He is doing and not on things that are discouraging in our days. Praying for some sweet surprises from Jesus for you this week. Love you dear friend.
Lizzy, I had to turn to John 14:3 and read. Then, I remembered that I had shared that passage with my dad once, before he became a Christian. I am sorry for your ongoing pain and feeling “orphaned”….I agree with Patti that you are a beautiful woman in all ways….you are a treasure, and you are treasured by Him.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? How did you interpret the John Eldredge clip?
Suffering-being refined. I had a particularly hard week last week and this weekend and am in a difficult season in my life where suffering is coming in waves but from every side. I need lots of refining and in it draw nearer to Jesus. 🙂 How I needed Romans 8 again listening to Paige this morning.
John Eldredge clip: I see it as all things new when we are resurrected or when we die and are face to face. I see someone on a horse on the beach and think that is Jesus coming to take me out of the wilderness (fallen and sinful world) into His presence in full-no sin. I also think of my mom who is getting more frail and that when she dies she will be joyous-looking at her hair -young again -in her prime of beauty, no more living in the results of the fall and sin and death.
Will step up my prayers for you, Rebecca.
Yes Rebecca…many prayers!
Rebecca,
Prayers for you, dear friend.
I will be praying for you, dear Rebecca. The enemy is very busy with all of us right now, but HE WILL BE DEFEATED! Praying for your precious mom, too.
I will also pray. So agree with Patti; the evil one has been very busy in my life. Ugh! So much.
Praying for His love and strength in the midst of those waves, Rebecca.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? How did you interpret the John Eldredge clip?
I liked the idea of refining us. It reminds me of a scripture in Malachi. Our pastor preached about this very thing yesterday. I don’t think I have thought too hard about what the afterlife would be like either. Like, are our deceased loved ones this way now, or do they have to wait for Jesus to come again?
“He will sit like a refiner of silver, burning away the dross. He will purify the Levites, refining them like gold and silver, so that they may once again offer acceptable sacrifices to the Lord.”
Malachi 3:3 NLT
I am not too sure about the video clip. I didn’t think we would actually have physical bodies in eternity? I thought we wouldn’t need them anymore? I don’t know if I understand the large waves either? The connection?
Malachi so relevant to all this.
One day we will have physical bodies like Jesus does — I think they will be pretty different than that scene — but I know we will be recognizable!
Laura, it’s funny that you mentioned the waves as I noticed surfers and imagined my son always catching a perfect wave and a mom not worrying about sharks!!
: )
Oh! that makes sense! I also have a couple of surfers in the family. Hahaha!
Laura and Sharon! I love the waves…I dream of swimming fearlessly in the ocean….of flying like a bird in the sky….and running through fields of soft grass that feels like velvet….
New here. Just finished The Jesus Who Study with a group from my church. Thank you for your efforts preparing this study. It changed my life powerfully as well as the life of my wife and several people in our group.
I so appreciate your encouragement, Wayne!
2. From Paige’s lecture. Since I listened to it all at once, I may have something from the first half. Our suffering has been given to us by God. It is not an accident. We draw closest to Him in it, and see more of Him in it. No other religion has a god who suffers. I think this is where the Jerry Bridges book got highlighted in my mind in regards to Susan’s comments.
We will be perfectly conformed to Him, changed but yet ourselves. There have been times in my life I wondered if once God is done removing evil from me if there’d be anything left. But then I ran across a quote from? Michaelangelo? Someone asked how he knew how to carve a large block of marble. His answer was, simple. I just take away anything that isn’t the end result.
The difference between grumbling and groaning. In one we are only complaining, whining and not wanting anything but our own comfort. In the other, we are honest about how hard it is, but we do it with our hand in His and trusting that it will come out right. We groan in guaranteed anticipation. The Holy Spirit within us increases our dissatisfaction with here while growing our hope for there, and so our groaning grows.
Loved the Keller quote: the best times in this life are leaveable, and the worst times are bearable because of the glory that is coming.
Be defined by hope, leaning forward. Or are we too worldly to want it? Come farther up and further in. You are not as happy as God means you to be.
As a hammered dulcimer fan, I loved, loved, the music at the end!!
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from the 2nd half of Paige’s lecture. So much stands out from Paige’s lecture. I love this: “Glory is the substance of Majesty, Significance, Victory, Brightness, Beauty, Splendor, Realization.” “It is the state in which God dwells.” I also love the C.S. Lewis quote: We will be welcomed into the heart of things – the door we have been knocking on all of our lives will open at last.” Suffering and Glory are inseparable because one is the path to the other. Glory does not replace suffering-it grows our of suffering. That is why you have the language of labor and birth.
3. Read Romans 8:18-21
A. What does Paul consider in verse 18? How has this perspective, if it has, helped you to suffer well? Be specific if possible. The sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. Our finite minds cannot grasp how glorious it will be. When suffering has happened in my life and there is a glorious answer to prayer about that suffering, the answer is so much more memorable with suffering that has been difficult. If a relationship is mended or you receive a sincere and loving apology for a wrong done, my joy is so great and my heart is so full that I remember little about the original issue, but I always remember the miracle of the answer. I sometimes think God allows the longer suffering, so we really see that the miracle is from Him. So many things seem impossible….but not for God. (sorry for the run on long answer)
B. What insight does 1 Corinthians 15:42 tell us about our new selves? Our new bodies will be imperishable.
C. Paige told a story about going out to lunch with a beautiful model — do you remember it and her point? It was obvious to all who saw them, that the model was exceptionally stunning and lovely….because she was..it was obvious!
Paige said that God is making His new creation “fit” for His transformed children. She quoted J. B. Phillips paraphase of verse 19, which is:
The whole creation is on tiptoe to see the sons of God coming into their own.
D. What thoughts do you have on verse 19, from the above paraphrase or your own translation? It is a bit like small children at Christmas, when they are so excited, with so much anticipation, that they want to stay awake or get up and take a peek…to see what is under the Christmas tree.
E. Who subjected all of creation to futility, and why, according to verses 20-21? God subjected all creation to futility, in hope that it will be set free from slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. Do many reject this, wanting things “good” right now rather than waiting for the BEST when God returns in Glory.
Like small children at Christmas — love that picture, Patti.
5. Read 2 Corinthians 4:14-18 A. How do these verses echo the call to hope?
We will be raised and in His presence, our inner being is being renewed every day, we will have an eternal weight of glory that is beyond comparison.
B. How is it encouraged by comparison (v. 17)? Of sight? Of length of time? Or weightiness?
Our suffering now is light in comparison and temporary, but the glory we will receive is weighty and eternal.
C. How are we to regard our lives in the present? (See both 2 Corin. 4:7 and 4:17)
This life is temporary and nothing compared to what lies ahead.
D. Meditate on the word incomparable in verse 17 (or “beyond all comparison”) What point is being made?
No matter what we go through here, what awaits us in Heaven will far outweigh the pain and struggle with it’s beauty and richness, fullness of love and glory. If we could see what awaits us we would not give care to anything we are experiencing here.
6. Continue reading in 2 Corinthians 5:1-5 A. What causes the groaning in this passage? Is it a lack of faith? An abandonment by God?
No, the groaning is the response of faith, it is a cry that comes out of assurance of Him and longing to be nearer still.
B. Is our groaning caused by our frustration with the present and a heart fixed on God or by our fixation on the present and frustration with God? (Where is Joni’s heart fixed according to Paige’s illustration?)
Our groaning is a heart that is fixed on Him and frustrated with the brokenness of this world, longing for our true Home.
7. Paige contrasted grumbling and murmuring with groaning. What is the difference? Why are the first two sin and the last actually positive? How might you apply this?
Grumbling and murmuring are fixed on self and wanting God to fix things our way. Groaning is evidence that we recognize who we are as His children, we know who God is as Sovereign and we long for the Day when all will be made as He designed.
8. Read Romans 8:22-28 A. Who is groaning and why according to verses 22-25?
The whole creation, including us, groan.
B. Paige’s brother is an obstetrician and she told a story of a woman in a hard labor and the name she gave to her baby. She talked about suffering and glorification being inseparable. How do you see this in this story? In your life?
I love how she said suffering is the necessary path to glory. Glory does not replace suffering but it grows out of it. What I am experiencing now is suffering that surprised me and that I still don’t see anything I could have done to prevent it—but I sense Him so close, and I am comforted by these truths, and it is keeping my heart soft towards those who are rejecting me.
C. Why is Romans 8:26-27 an encouragement and not a discouragement to pray? Does prayer require our strength? Our wisdom? Our insight? Certain words? Can our imperfect hurt others or ourselves? How do these verses fan our hope into flame?
I love how she talked about this—our prayers being a “blob” and the Holy Spirit makes them beautiful. Last week I was sharing with my church staff some of my current trials and one of our Pastors and friend asked me how they could pray for me—I had just heard this lecture and thought—I don’t know, but I trust the Spirit to do it.
Love from Lizzy:
Grumbling and murmuring are fixed on self and wanting God to fix things our way. Groaning is evidence that we recognize who we are as His children, we know who God is as Sovereign and we long for the Day when all will be made as He designed.
Lizzy, I love this from you, “….but I sense Him so close, and I am comforted by these truths, and it is keeping my heart soft towards those who are rejecting me.”
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? How did you interpret the John Eldredge clip?
It stands out that there is such a strong relationship between suffering and glorification. I guess I don’t like to think about the “positive” side of suffering; only that I don’t like it and wish it would not be so. I’m not sure I liked the Eldredge clip. I think it was showing that we will still be ourselves, with a physical body. I just didn’t like it that the woman woke up in a room all alone (I’m assuming this was supposed to be after she died.) Where was everyone else?
You make me smile — but so true — she was all alone! I’d be pretty sad about that!
I’ve finally got my computer up and functional. I’ve been waiting on my husband to do the IT work ( you know the old saying the cobbler’s children have no shoes)…
What stands out to you from the above and why? How did you interpret the John Eldredge clip? The quote from C.S. Lewis’ book stands out to me. I just got to that part in the audio version of the book and it was something that I had repeated to myself throughout Saturday. When I saw the picture and the quote “But courage, child: we are all between the paws of the true Aslan.” It struck me as an affirmation that this is something I need to focus on. Right now I am making some life changing decisions as far as my career goes (it may involve less money and employment stability) and while I am continuing to seek God and rest in knowing that He is in control every step of the way, I still find myself unable to stay asleep at night and it bothers me that maybe I’m not casting all of my cares on Him and I’m letting anxiety overtake me. I have a prescription drug that is a sleep aid, but relying on it is also a discouragement.
As far as the John Eldredge video goes it was a different perspective, but if I hadn’t known that it was supposed to be the moments after you leave this world, I don’t think that I would have figured it out from this video. I don’t know what it will be like, but I’m kind of hoping for an instantaneous flood of joy from being in the presence of Jesus and seeing my brothers and sisters in Christ. Not waking up alone and left to discover everything. Since the bible says, “But just as it is written, “Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and which have not entered the human heart, all that God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Cor 2:9 I’m sure that whatever it is, we haven’t even come close to imagining.
Oh so glad the Aslan paws helped you in your current flux!
Dawn, Days are difficult when you can’t sleep. I will pray for peace and rest for you. I have many nights like that too. I love this verse you quoted: “Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and which have not entered the human heart, all that God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Cor 2:9…..It will be so beyond anything of this earth that we would not be able to describe it.
I will pray for you as well Patti.
Thank you dear Dawn.
Monday
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from the 2nd half of Paige’s lecture.
God is making a suitable habitat for us. The more I think about that Eldridge clip the more I wonder if that is the woman’s suitable habitat. It isn’t the first morning she has woken up in her new body, that is if we sleep, but one of several and each time she does she remains amazed at her newness and the awesome habitat God has made for her, no loneliness as she is surrounded by His glory. In John 14:2 it speaks of a mansion being prepared for us…how do you picture your mansion looking like?
3. Read Romans 8:18-21
A. What does Paul consider in verse 18? How has this perspective, if it has, helped you to suffer well? Be specific if possible.
The suffering we’re experiencing now doesn’t compare to the glory He will reveal to us later.
When losing our son to SIDS the pain and grief was unbearable. I didn’t instantaneously have this perspective. The time that you are in the fire being refined is a time when all the impurities and ugliness is being removed and you slowly learn what God is teaching you and what He is refining you to be. It seems the more times the heat is turned on (suffering takes place) and those impurities are being removed and Jesus’s reflection is seen within you, the more you realize the value of His glory that will one day be revealed in you, far out weighs all of that.
B. What insight does 1 Corinthians 15:42 tell us about our new selves?
That we will be raised imperishable and immortal. Message,,,”when we’re raised, we’re raised for good, alive forever!”
C. Paige told a story about going out to lunch with a beautiful model — do you remember it and her point?
This made me smile. A group of men recognized the model and when they were leaving one man went over and commented that he was a big fan of hers. The model said thank you, he walked away and Paige responded, “that sure was cocky, how do you know he wasn’t speaking to me?”
Paige said that God is making His new creation “fit” for His transformed children. She quoted J. B. Phillips paraphase of verse 19, which is
The whole creation is on tiptoe to see the sons of God coming into their own.
D. What thoughts do you have on verse 19, from the above paraphrase or your own translation?
Creation is waiting eagerly for me (and not the other way around) when God will reveal who His children really are.
E. Who subjected all of creation to futility, and why, according to verses 20-21?
God did. Because with eager hope the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay.
F. Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, storms — all are examples of God subjecting His creation to frustration. How has this specifically affected you — was your heart made harder or were you refined? Specific examples please!
Going through hurricane Florence and many others, God refined me. It amazes me how much frustration God is subjecting His creation to with all of these disasters happening just in our country. He is the one in control of the climate…not us.
4. How can you see God subjecting the creation to frustration in the blowing of the first four trumpets? (See Revelation 8:6-13)
He throws hail and fire mixed with blood to the earth, 1/3rd of the earth set in fire, 1/3rd of the trees burned and all the green grass was burned.A great mountain of fire thrown into the sea, 1/3rd of the sea became blood, 1/3rd of things living in the sea died and 1/3rd of all ships on the sea destroyed.
A great star (named Bitterness)fell from the sky, burning like a torch, fell on 1/3rd of the rivers and springs of water, 1/3rd of water made bitter and many people died from drinking the water.
1/3rd of the sun was struck, 1/3rd of the moon, stars became dark, 1/3rd of the day was dark, and also 1/3rd of the night.
I was so impressed with your attitude during and after Hurricane Florence.
Monday: Revelation of Glory (To us, In us, About us, For us)
1. Share one thing that stood out to you from the 2nd half of Paige’s lecture.
“An end of time view or perspective changes everything…Groaning is the sound of hope… And we have the Holy spirit who groans with us…Am I defined by my hope, groaning and gazing?”
“You are not as happy as I want you to be.” Aslan
I am learning that only in GAZING can I GROAN with HOPE.
Song: One thing have I Desired by Maranatha Music One Thing Have I Desired (of the Lord), by Maranatha Music – YouTube Dee, let me know if this link needs approval again. I updated my desktop, and it seems to show some new stuff that I have not seen before, and don’t want to give you extra work!
3. Read Romans 8:18-21
A. What does Paul consider in verse 18? How has this perspective, if it has, helped you to suffer well? Be specific if possible.
“ I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.”
As Paige has said there is no contest between our present suffering and the glory that will be revealed in us. They can only be contrasted but not compared.
I have shared here before that I have low back problems. I have been treated for it many times and there seems to be no rhyme or reason why it flares up at times. Whereas before, I would resent it as an intruder to my level of comfort, I am learning to look at this suffering as a “weight” accruing ( Paige used this word) to a greater good, glory for me.
B. What insight does 1 Corinthians 15:42 tell us about our new selves?
“That’s how it will be when our bodies are raised to life. These bodies will die, but the bodies that are raised will live forever.”
It is hard to imagine what a forever life would be, but I look forward to it and can look at the consequences of corruption in my body with hope.
C. Paige told a story about going out to lunch with a beautiful model — do you remember it and her point?
The model was readily recognizable because of her obvious attributes as the world sees beauty. Her point was our glorified bodies would be recognizable-we will all be changed and be conformed to the image of Christ. Hallelujah!
Paige said that God is making His new creation “fit” for His transformed children. She quoted J. B. Phillips paraphrase of verse 19, which is:
The whole creation is on tiptoe to see the sons of God coming into their own.
D. What thoughts do you have on verse 19, from the above paraphrase or your own translation?
The very thing that we often worship, that is, creation, is secondary to us. We do not wait for creation to come into its own, it waits for us!
For what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? Psalm 8:3-4
“The worth of a human soul can be estimated only by the light reflected from the cross of Calvary. So terrible was the doom of the lost race, so great the glory to which the redeemed might be exalted, that the Father is satisfied with the infinite price which he pays for their redemption. It was the joy set before Christ in accomplishing so great salvation, that led him to submit to shame, agony, and death. How do all the treasures and the glories of earth sink into insignificance when compared with the value of a human soul!” Ellen White
E. Who subjected all of creation to futility, and why, according to verses 20-21?
God.
F. Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, storms — all are examples of God subjecting His creation to frustration. How has this specifically affected you — was your heart made harder or were you refined? Specific examples, please!
We had an ice storm several years ago in our small town of 10 thousand. Schools were canceled, business was very slow, no electricity, workers working round the clock to get power back. I thought of the nursing homes and my elderly patients. I remember sensing God’s peace overriding my fears and opening my eyes to His sovereignty and His purposes. And then sensing His direction as to how our family can reach out to others.
2. How can you see God subjecting the creation to frustration in the blowing of the first four trumpets? (See Revelation 8:6-13)
Hail and fire, death of creatures of the sea, commerce being affected, death, darkness.
What stands out to me from Paige’s lecture: First this was wonderful! but I must say that the part about prayer is really speaking to me. The spirit prays for us and intercedes for us… and groans for us. Our opportunity to come before the Father is so humbling but we don’t know how to pray as we ought. The Father searches our hearts and loves us so much. Too much to answer in the affirmative even to our requests.
I was also impressed with the quoting of the verse from the hymn Love Divine: ” Finish then thy new creation, pure and spotless let us be, let us see thy great salvation perfectly restored in thee, changed from glory into glory till in heaven we take our place, till we cast our crowns before thee, lost in wonder love, and praise. ” It’s been repeating in my head all day!
I love that hymn, too, Shirley! …lost in wonder, love, and praise.
Love those thoughts about the Father searching our hearts and He loves us so much. How I cling to that when I am overwhelmed with how to pray. I love that hymn, Shirley. What a good reminder of all we have to look forward to.
Tuesday
*5. Read 2 Corinthians 4:14-18
A. How do these verses echo the call to hope?
What we have to look forward to, being raised with Jesus and even though our bodies are dying, our spirits are being renewed everyday and that’s why we have a hope, never giving up.
B. How is it encouraged by comparion (v. 17)? Of sight? Of length of time? Or weightiness?
We can see our present troubles as small, not lasting very long, yet they produce a glory that vastly outweighs them and will last forever.
C. How are we to regard our lives in the present? (See both 2 Corin. 4:7 and 4:17)
We should regard ourselves as fragile clay jars, knowing our present troubles won’t last long.
D. Meditate on the word incomparable in verse 17 (or “beyond all comparison”) What point is being made?
That our eternal weight of glory surpasses all comparisons to our present troubles.
*6. Continue reading in 2 Corinthians 5:1-5
A. What causes the groaning in this passage? Is it a lack of faith? An abandonment by God?
A desire to put on new bodies so our dying bodies will be swallowed up by life.
It’s not a lack of faith as we’re looking ahead.
We are not abandoned by God because He has given us His Holy Spirit.
B. Is our groaning caused by our frustration with the present and a heart fixed on God or by our fixation on the present and frustration with God? (Where is Joni’s heart fixed according to Paige’s illustration?)
Our groaning is caused by frustration, frustration of being in our present bodies but longing to put on heavenly bodies like new clothing – that’s a heart fixed on God.
Joni fixed her eyes on future divine fulfillment. She was able to look beyond her walls and see where Jesus was taking her, saying come Lord Jesus.
5. Read 2 Corinthians 4:14-18
A. How do these verses echo the call to hope?
That the only thing that matters here on Earth-when trials come is not the trial but how God is changing me/us on the inside from it. He is getting me ready to meet Jesus face to face…ahhh..finally home with no sin getting in the way of intimacy. Totally in His presence being like Him for just as God raised Jesus, he will me.
B. How is it encouraged by comparion (v. 17)? Of sight? Of length of time? Or weightiness?
Affliction is light and momentary vs. The eternal weight of Glory
C. How are we to regard our lives in the present? (See both 2 Corin. 4:7 and 4:17)
I’m challenged not to put my hope or dismay on what is seen or in the resolve of my afflictions but to put my hope in the unseen always looking forward to the day I am face to face.
D. Meditate on the word incomparable in verse 17 (or “beyond all comparison”) What point is being made?
What is here, our afflictions, and the weightiness of the world, even the good things are nothing compared to what God has in store for us in the future, and to know He is using it all for the future-to transform us-so we have no reason to fear or be dismayed. Like Keller said, when we are face to face with Jesus being here on earth will seem like one nights stay in a raunchy motel. 🙂 Not sure that is exactly what he said but something like that.
I think he was quoting Teresa of Avilla – one night in a bad hotel! We’ve probably all experienced that. I remember begging David, my administrative assistant at the time, to change hotels. We had cockroaches and it was so dirty — but that’s where they had put us. He said, “This is how missionaries live all the time!” So, we stayed! 🙂
The end of The Last Battle has been my definition of Heaven for years. Beautiful study.
Welcome, Judy — I can tell I’d love to have you active here!
Welcome Judy Lou!
Wednesday
7. Paige contrasted grumbling and murmuring with groaning. What is the difference? Why are the first two sin and the last actually positive? How might you apply this?
Groaning is a result of hope…our focus is upward, knowing there is glory to come that far out weighs the present trouble. Grumbling and murmuring is a result of focusing on our present circumstances and having no hope.
The first 2 are sin because we take God completely out of the picture and focus on self.
‘The last is good because our focus is on God and the amazing eternal life He has for us.
‘This is good for me as I’m having a frustrating time physically…oh, may I groan and not grumble!
I totally missed answering this question! I love your answer, Sharon! So wise! Thank you!
3. Romans 8:18-21. A. What does Paul consider, and how does that help you suffer well?
Paul says the suffering today will be as nothing when God’s glory is revealed to us. I think of the hymn, it will be worth it all when we see Jesus.
B. We will be raised imperishable; so different than these bodies that started dying as soon as we were born.
E. So from the clues in the questions, it was God who subjected creation to frustration, so that when we are finally glorified, it will be, too. Is it because we are a part of creation, linked together in the fall and linked together in liberation and glorification?
F. When I see or hear or come close to experiencing extreme ‘acts of God’, it always makes me think of Revelation and how God does all those things, hoping that some might turn to Him.
4. When I read these verses in Revelation, I think about how secular people talk about the environment. They see doom in overpopulation, deforestation, pollution, global warming and such. I’m not saying we aren’t stewards of the earth, but that even while seeing the problems, they refuse to turn to Him.
5. 2 Corinthians 4:14-18. A. As Jesus suffered and died, His outer self was wasting away, but His inner self was raised to new life. We can live our lives in that pattern. We can trust that our suffering will bring us greater glory, just as His did for Him. It won’t be because we are so great, but because He chose to call us and give us His Spirit, so that we can be like Him, with His life in us.
B. We can be encouraged because what we see around us is not our goal, but our goal is what He promised us. Everything on this earth is temporary, but what we are being given is eternal. The seeming heaviness of what we go through now will be far out weighed by the glory coming to us in Jesus.
C. We should regard our lives now as just a shadow; a movie teaser, if you will. The real deal is coming, and we can live for that.
D. The point being made is that what we are moving toward is so fantastic that we can’t compare it to anything here. It is beyond all we know or even imagine.
6. 2 Corinthians 5:1-5. A. What causes the groaning?
It is caused by the presence of the Holy Spirit, alerting us that where we are now is small and paultry, helping us to long deeply for what is coming. Rather than from a lack of faith, it is actually a product of faith, believing God at His word, knowing He has not abandoned us, but is paving the way for us to be so much more than we are now.
B. Some people do struggle with a frustration with God and a fixation on the present. I think that leads to depression, dismay, and giving up. A fixation on God with a frustration with the present actually leads to purpose, meaning, and a positive resolve. That’s what you see in Joni.
7. To grumble and murmur is to complain, with a mindset that sees no way to change it. It reminds me of people you try to help, and for every suggestion, they have a reason why it won’t work. They seem to want it not to work, to just be pitied. Groaning is a realistic reaction to the hardships and rigors of this life, infused with a hope for the future and a longing for that day to get here. I know that when I am grumbling, I want it all to be someone else’s fault, and I want that someone to come and grovel before me and make it up to me. One way for me to change that is to start being grateful, listing out all God has done and is doing for me and how much He is there for me.
8. Romans 8:22-28. A. Who is groaning, and why?
It is we, and the creation we are part of that is groaning. We have hope for a different world and reality, and it is hard to wait for it.
B. Suffering and glorification are inseparable. There is no childbirth without suffering, but the results of the suffering – the baby – is so much more than the pain. We all want joy without suffering, but in my life I know that whenever I’ve had a taste of joy without suffering, I don’t really value it.
C. We don’t have to have just the right words in order to pray. We can know that setting our soul’s face toward Him and then trusting Him for the words is effective. Even when the Spirit takes over and all we feel is His groaning for us. Can imperfect prayer hurt others or yourself? God’s perfection is so much greater than any lack on our part! Just as parents interpret what their young children are saying or asking for, God does that to a much higher degree.
I love all these thoughts, Mary! It is so true that we value the joy more, if there has been suffering to get there. Imagine how glorious heaven will be!
This is wonderful! God’s perfection is so much greater than any lack on our part! Just as parents interpret what their young children are saying or asking for, God does that to a much higher degree.
I love your thought, Mary, on how our imperfect prayers cannot hurt people.
Wednesday: Groaning Because of Expectation
7. Paige contrasted grumbling and murmuring with groaning. What is the difference? Why are the first two sin and the last actually positive? How might you apply this?
8. Read Romans 8:22-28
A. Who is groaning and why according to verses 22-25? The whole of creation groans and as with the pains of childbirth; we groan within ourselves, with expectation of our adoption. As Paige stated, groaning is a longing, an anticipation, we are in the “in between”.
B. Paige’s brother is an obstetrician and she told a story of a woman in a hard labor and the name she gave to her baby. She talked about suffering and glorification being inseparable. How do you see this in this story? In your life? Suffering and glory are inseparable because one is the path to the other. Glory grows out of suffering~ the story is so much the same as pain and childbirth. For the believer, no pain is wasted; suffering is not just a reality, but it has a purpose unto our glory. I think the suffering in my life has helped me to be more sensitive to the suffering of others. In a way, suffering can be a gift that God allows in our lives, to make our hearts more tender to those in need. If we had no suffering, we could easily become shallow, lack humility and lose compassion for others.
*C. Why is Romans 8:26-27 an encouragement and not a discouragement to pray? Does prayer require our strength? Our wisdom? Our insight? Certain words? Can our imperfect hurt others or ourselves? How do these verses fan our hope into flame? It is an encouragement to pray. As hope helps the believer through suffering, the Holy Spirit helps us to pray. As Paige stated, we have His Holy Spirit. He is the first fruit in us. He grows our hope ~ He prays for us~ Our Heavenly Father hears our heart. The Holy Spirit translates. We fix our eyes on the unseen and yearn for the beauty that is coming.
I love the Pascal quote: “Life can only be understood backwards but it must be lived forwards.”
A friend gave me a similar quote~ I don’t know who said it: “Think of Heaven and live backwards from that. ” …..I love that thought ~ Always keep our eyes focused on heaven…..it will change the way we live today.
“If we had no suffering, we could easily become shallow, lack humility and lose compassion for others.”
Such a true statement Patti. I was thinking for myself how easily I fall into that when all is going well…”I” think I’m in control and it becomes all about “me”.
I liked the Pascal quote too😊
Love this Patti: Think of Heaven and live backwards from that. ”
This week Paige quotes The Great Divorce with a similar quote.
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from the 2nd half of Paige’s lecture.
I probably appreciate the Holy Spirit more now than I did prior to her study. He is the first “installment.”
3. Read Romans 8:18-21
A. What does Paul consider in verse 18? How has this perspective, if it has, helped you to suffer well? Be specific if possible.
Paul says that our suffering will be equal to the glory in our future. It reminds me that the more I suffer the more I will experience glory. Well, I have missed out on many dad-daughter events since my dad died when I was 12. That was when God spoke to me and told me He would be my father. Although I have experienced suffering throughout my life, I do believe overall I have been blessed; watched over by Him.
B. What insight does 1 Corinthians 15:42 tell us about our new selves?
Our Earthly bodies will be planted in the ground but raised to live forever.
C. Paige told a story about going out to lunch with a beautiful model — do you remember it and her point?
She and the model were at lunch and a man recognized her and stopped at their table to say hello. As the man was leaving, she said, “thanks for stopping by (or something acknowledging his presence at the table).” Paige said, “how do you know he was talking to you?” I think her point was that in God’s eyes we are ALL beautiful, not just some who are picked out of a crowd.
Wednesday
8. Read Romans 8:22-28
A. Who is groaning and why according to verses 22-25?
Creation is groaning, looking forward to the day it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay,
Believers also groan because we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering.
B. Paige’s brother is an obstetrician and she told a story of a woman in a hard labor and the name she gave to her baby. She talked about suffering and glorification being inseparable. How do you see this in this story? In your life?
When the baby finally came she was asked for a name, to which she replied “Shekinah Glory!” Without the labor and pain there would be no glory!
*C. Why is Romans 8:26-27 an encouragement and not a discouragement to pray?
It’s an encouragement to know that even if I don’t know what to pray that the Holy Spirit prays for me with groanings that can’t be expressed in words. The Father who knows all hearts, understands the Spirit and what the Spirit is pleading for me…(and I love this)…the Sprits pleadings, is in harmony with God’s own will!
Does prayer require our strength?
No, as the the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
Our wisdom?
No
Our insight?
No
Certain words?
No
Can our imperfect hurt others or ourselves?
I’m thinking the question is, Can our imperfect prayers hurt others or ourselves and the answer is no.
How do these verses fan our hope into flame?
That all my prayers are answered in accordance to His will because of the Holy Spirit’s groanings. There’s no certain formula, nothing I need to memorize, but just pour out my heart because God knows it.
From Sharon:
That all my prayers are answered in accordance to His will because of the Holy Spirit’s groanings. There’s no certain formula, nothing I need to memorize, but just pour out my heart because God knows it.
AMEN!
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from the 2nd half of Paige’s lecture. I was just awed by it. I hope that there will be a way to share her studies in the future. They are too rich to be a one and done.
3. Read Romans 8:18-21
A. What does Paul consider in verse 18? That the things that we suffer in this life will not compare to the glory of our heavenly, eternal future. How has this perspective, if it has, helped you to suffer well? Be specific if possible. The greatest tragedy that I have suffered thus far in my life is the sudden death of my niece who I was very close to. The hope of seeing her and spending eternity with her is a great comfort to me. Knowing that she is experiencing the very thing that I hope for brings me happiness and joy for her.
B. What insight does 1 Corinthians 15:42 tell us about our new selves? Our perishable body will be planted like a seed and our imperishable body will grow from that.
C. Paige told a story about going out to lunch with a beautiful model — do you remember it and her point? She wondered how the model knew that the person was referring to her. It’s because she know who she is and it was obvious to everyone in the room.
They did say her historical studies would become available, so I assume this will too. Perhaps she doesn’t want pirating because there will be editing to make them better.
D. What thoughts do you have on verse 19, from the above paraphrase or your own translation?
We wait in anticipation for the glory of God to bless us!
E. Who subjected all of creation to futility, and why, according to verses 20-21?
God subjected all of creation to His wrath because of the initial disobedience of Adam and Eve.
F. Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, storms — all are examples of God subjecting His creation to frustration. How has this specifically affected you — was your heart made harder or were you refined? Specific examples please!
I have been through many hurricanes (Camille in the 60’s!) and tornadoes. I have never been hurt or had too much property damage. I guess the thing that strikes me most about going through the storms is the scariness of them. It is sure terror that something will happen, you just never know what that something will be; the unknown.
With the tornadoes, we had small children and a 2 story home with no basement. We had a staircase “closet” that we would gather in when the sirens went off (always in the middle of the night (?!). Our bedroom was downstairs and the three kids (at that time) were upstairs. I used to time myself by counting as to how long it took me to jump out of bed, run up the stairs, grab the baby in the nursery, the toddler in his bed, and “kick” the 6 year old down the stairs. I would throw everyone in the closet (dog and cat would follow) and dive in myself. My best time was 15 sec! Where was my husband? Out side of course! Watching the storm…..
4. How can you see God subjecting the creation to frustration in the blowing of the first four trumpets? (See Revelation 8:6-13)
Isn’t it more than just frustration? When you go back and read, it seems like it is death and destruction for sure! Fire burning, water in the sea is blood, people dying, bitter water, and darkness. That all sounds awful, just like the anticipation of a storm. Some would die, and I suppose some would live, however what would their earthly life look like after the wrath of God?
Oh how I loved the picture you painted in F!
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from the second half of Paige’s lecture.
Hope calls for a commitment to gazing – gazing at what is coming. Two adverbs about our hope are eagerly and patiently.
3. Read Romans 8:18-21
A. What does Paul consider in verse 18? How has this perspective, if it has, helped you to suffer well? Be specific if possible.
He considers or compares our present suffering with the glory we will be given later. When I keep this perspective in mind, it does help me to turn away from my idols, which are my attempts at alleviating my suffering, trials, and disappointments here and now. It reminds me that there is something better waiting for me, that I don’t have to eat crumbs on the floor when there is a feast waiting for me. Most of all, it is HE who is waiting for me, who is here now with me, and who will remind me and help me if only I turn to Him first instead of a substitute.
B. What insight does 1 Corinthians 15:42 tell us about our new selves?
This verse says that while our bodies now decay and die, our new resurrected bodies will be different. They will not decay nor die.
C. Paige told a story about going out to lunch with a beautiful model – do you remember it and her point?
God is making all of creation new and “fit” for His children….our full glory and beauty as His children will be revealed one day. All of creation will be on “tiptoe”, wanting to see God’s children. Paige’s friend was a stunningly beautiful model, noticed by all around her, and one man in particular stopped by their table, saying he was a fan. Paige joked, how do you know he wasn’t talking about me?
D. What thoughts do you have on verse 19, from the above paraphrase or your own translation?
“The created world itself can hardly wait for what’s coming next.” (The MSG) It’s interesting to me that the creation is described here as having human longings, much like we do. That’s not to say that I believe in animism, but it is interesting. I listened to a podcast in which a scientist who studies trees and forests has found in her research and experiments that trees do communicate with each other on a chemical level, and that the old idea of clearing out mature trees in order to plant new ones is not a good idea. Her research demonstrated that older, mature trees “mentored” younger trees. It was pretty interesting!
E. Who subjected all of creation to futility, and why, according to verses 20-21?
God subjected creation to futility, putting it under the curse. The curse was the result of the Fall.
F. Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, storms – all are examples of God subjecting His creation to frustration. How has this specifically affected you – was your heart made harder or were you refined?
I have never been in an earthquake, fire, or hurricane. There have been times when a bad storm damaged our roof, or a tree fell in the yard, or we lost power for a while. The first year our sons moved away, one to Florida and one to Texas, was the year of Hurricanes Harvey and Irma, which struck the areas where they lived. Fortunately, our son in TX lived on the 8th floor of an apartment building in Houston; he was traveling on business when it struck and had the foresight to have a friend move his car from the bottom floor of the parking garage up to the top. If not, his car would’ve been underwater, as the lower level flooded. However, last year an unnatural winter storm struck Texas and pipes froze, and he lost that apartment when pipes burst in the ceiling and flooded the living area and kitchen. I was thankful that he was safe. It was horrible to hear the news reports of people who were found frozen to death, though. That’s the heartbreaking part of natural disasters – the loss of human lives.
4. How can you see God subjecting the creation to frustration in the blowing of the first four trumpets? (See Revelation 8:6-13)
These verses describe disasters inflicted upon the earth, the oceans, rivers and springs….undrinkable, poisoned waters, living creatures that live in the seas dying, fires and other devastations.
“Everything happens for a reason” — and other lies I’ve loved – YouTube
This is a link to a short Ted talk by a young Christian woman named Kate Bowler, about her own suffering through her cancer journey. I think she touches on some of the things we’ve been discussing about suffering.
Susan, what is your take on her feeling that not everything that happens to us has a reason?
Mary, what I heard this woman say is that she doesn’t have to have a reason or a formula for why she has this cancer. After she had her op-ed published, she received letters from people eager to tell her the reason she had cancer. Some suggested it was because she’d done something wrong, or that God had given her cancer. Some people told her husband, while she was in the hospital, that everything happens for a reason. When he asked, please tell me the reason, they didn’t know what to say. Yet she hasn’t lost her faith in God. She said she has never felt abandoned by God, and has experienced His love. I remember the pastor of a church I used to attend told us in one of his sermons about his teenage sister who had been killed in an accident while riding a horse, and the awful, hurtful comments of some Christians who attended her funeral who said this must have happened because….
I think of Job’s friends, who did well when they kept silent, but when they started talking, thinking they knew the reason why Job was suffering, that’s when they got in trouble. I think it is our nature to want to know why, to want to have a reason for why things happen. Personally, I don’t have to know why to still trust in God. I spent a long time agonizing over the “whys” as to why my 21 year old nephew died tragically from an overdose, when I’d heard testimonies of others who had been on drugs being delivered by God and who were now living happy, productive lives. I came to the conclusion that even if I was presented with a box of information containing the “why”, I probably wouldn’t want to open it up. I gained something more as I worked through the grief….having come onto this blog when Dee was doing a study on her book, The God of All Comfort. I drew closer to God. I can believe in a God who may also weep with us over senseless tragedies. Not having a “good” reason does not diminish God in my eyes at all. That’s just how I see it. If I get hit by a drunk driver tomorrow and am severely injured, the reason would be that I am hurt because of the sin of another person who chose to drive drunk. I would not believe that God singled me out to be injured in this way. I would trust Him to be with me, to weep with me, to help me work through things like forgiveness. If I stay close to Him, I can expect to grow in my faith.
Susan, I so appreciated hearing your take on this. I totally agree that people can say terrible things out of their own discomfort in painful situations. And we do well to be quiet and just cry with the ones in that crucible. I am looking forward to hearing Paige’s new lecture and what she has to say on this.
Susan, Thank you for sharing that link. I just listened to it. I am crying like crazy, but it excellent. I have never felt that everything happens for a reason… I agree with you….I do not have to have an answer to the “Why” to trust God. I find it difficult when there is a tragedy, like your young nephew. I love Dee’s book The God of All Comfort~ I love that our God weeps with us over loss and tragedy. I love that He can give us hearts to forgive. I love that He loves us no matter what.
I have also gained more by working through grief, with God as my refuge. I loved the part of her talk when she said she felt “love”. I have felt that supernatural “love” in very difficult times and it has taught me to press into Jesus so much more, every day of my life. He is the Love, the comfort, and the answer.
Thank you, Susan.
Thanks, Susan. In this week’s lecture Paige dismantled “Everything happens for a reason”
I was able to listen to Paige’s new lecture when I couldn’t sleep last night. I am thinking this may be a semantic thing. When I tell someone that I believe everything happens for a reason, I don’t pretend to know what the reason is. I say it from a deep conviction that nothing can come into our lives God has not allowed. Paige said the same thing when she quotes John Newton: All He sends is necessary; nothing can be necessary that He withholds. All that is in our life, especially what we don’t want, is there because we need it, and what is not there we don’t need. I know there are people who don’t say it in that light, but people who don’t have our understanding of rainbows don’t negate what God intended for them. So my take is that sharing with people that the Sovereign God of the universe was/is not out of control in the events of their lives, is meant to give them hope and a place to direct their pain and their questions.
Mary, I appreciate our being able to graciously engage in conversation about this topic! The whys of suffering and pain in this world are downright hard, confusing, and mysterious. I think you are right, to say that you don’t know the reason. I believe the hurtful (though some may be truly well-meaning) statements come when people act as if they know the reason for your suffering, and proceed to tell you what it is, or to throw a Bible verse at a person who is deeply hurt or grieving. It isn’t helpful, and can feel like a knife in the heart.
*9. God will transform this earth into a new earth FOR US. What will it be like? Share any passages you know. Consider Isaiah 11:6-9 in the Old Testament and Revelation 21:1-7, 22:1-5 in the New. And then brainstorm. What are you most excited about? Remember that we cannot imagine MORE than He has for us (1 Cor. 2:9).
The Glory of the Lord will be everywhere. The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord. I love that so much! I am excited that it will be filled with people we have lost, who will all be beautiful in our eyes. The light will radiate everywhere! We will be able to do anything that we can think of. We will instantly be where we wish to be. Everything will have order and meaning. There will be so much that we cannot even imagine it with our finite minds. Everyone will be filled with joy. No more illness. Joni Eareckson Tada and all those who have suffered will be whole and will be dancing. Our eyes will see everything clearly and in a different way than we see now. The light will be more beautiful than any early morning sky we have ever seen and there will be peace and joy everywhere. All the trees, hillsides will be filled with beauty and colors we have never before seen. The crystal clear aqua water (there will be no sea…not sure what that means) will be filled with glorious creatures for us to enjoy. The animals will beautiful, colorful and friendly. Their fur will be beautiful and soft. They will walk freely and mingle with the heavenly people. There will be many children everywhere. The air will be clean and pure. We will be able to float through the air with the birds and swim in the sea with the dolphins. The flowers will be amazing and beautiful! There will be no fear, no sorrow, no grief, no pain, no fighting, no envy…..or anything negative.! There will only be love everywhere!
You should paint this, Patti! Beautiful.
I wish I could! 🙂 I see it in my dreams sometimes. 🙂
*9. God will transform this earth into a new earth FOR US. What will it be like? Share any passages you know. Consider Isaiah 11:6-9 in the Old Testament and Revelation 21:1-7, 22:1-5 in the New. And then brainstorm. What are you most excited about? Remember that we cannot imagine MORE than He has for us (1 Cor. 2:9).
Had to post this before I was finished. Most important, we will see the Glory of the Lord. We will be in God’s Glory!
9. In the Isaiah passage, there is no more dog eat dog. Instead there’s total harmony and ecological balance. In Revelation 21 we are told God will physically present be with us. The next chapter says there is no more curse, but rather complete healing. As one who has received a lot of emotional and spiritual healing, complete, total and lasting healing sounds – well, heavenly! But a question I have. All these passages seem to speak of a renewed, restored earth and heaven, yet Jesus said He was going away to prepare a place for us. The implication is that He is doing that not here, but somewhere else. And if that is true, then the images in Revelation of the new earth coming down to us make sense. So I am confused here.
10. John 14:1-4. The purpose of the place Jesus is preparing for us is so that we can be with Him. Totally. Physically. We have His Spirit now, but we all long to be able to touch Him, see Him, and have Him embrace us. I’m not sure how He can do that with all of us, but I take it that I will long no more, but be satisfied.
11. In heaven, according to the verses Dee mentioned, we will be holy. We will have perfect, glorified bodies. We will be like Jesus, having perfect unity with the Father. I don’t need to be concerned about what age I will be or what I will look like. What I will have and be there will be different than what I have now, but it will be just right.
I see how that seems like a paradox. But because He is Jesus He could make that work together! 🙂
You are right, Mary! It does answer the Revelation images of the new earth coming down to us. It will be amazing to experience!
*10. Read John 14:1-4. Again, He is preparing a place FOR US. What is its purpose? What is the center of our eternal joy in that place (v.3b)? Jesus is preparing a place for us, where He will be. We will be with Him and fellowship with Him. “I will come again and receive you to Myself that where I am, there you may be also.” Such comfort to know that we will reside in His presence.
*11. And what will WE be like? Or rather WHOM will we be like? See John 17:22-26, Colossians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:1-2. Further reflect on 1 Corinthians 15:42-55 for your own encouragement and HOPE.
He will give us glory. John 17:22 “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one.” 1 John:1-3 ” ..”it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will se Him just as He is.”
1 Cor. 15: 42-55 I love this whole passage. We will be changed. We will be imperishable, raised in glory, raised in power, with a spiritual body! We will bear the image of the heavenly! So many wonderful promises. and I love this: 1Corinthians 15: 51- 52 “Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleepp, but we wil all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.” What beautiful promises!!
5. Read 2 Corinthians 4:14-18
A. How do these verses echo the call to hope?
They reach into the future for us to “see.” We don’t worry about our bodies here on earth, because our spirit grows even though our bodies are decaying.
B. How is it encouraged by comparion (v. 17)? Of sight? Of length of time? Or weightiness?
Our present troubles are small and won’t last very long. The glory produced will be great and last forever!
C. How are we to regard our lives in the present? (See both 2 Corin. 4:7 and 4:17)
We are a light that needs to shine for all to see.
D. Meditate on the word incomparable in verse 17 (or “beyond all comparison”) What point is being made?
The greatness of our glory is far better than anything here on earth.
*6. Continue reading in 2 Corinthians 5:1-5
A. What causes the groaning in this passage? Is it a lack of faith? An abandonment by God?
Our lives can be painful. We are human. We are shortsighted in our thinking and seeing. We want to give in, to be with God. It is not a lack of faith! It just has to come in God’s time, not our own time. It is not abandonment by God either! He left us the Holy Spirit.
B. Is our groaning caused by our frustration with the present and a heart fixed on God or by our fixation on the present and frustration with God? (Where is Joni’s heart fixed according to Paige’s illustration?)
Our groaning should be a frustration on the present and a heart fixed on God. It might be on fixation with the present and a frustration with God. Joni’s is definitely a heart fixed on God, as her present circumstances are extremely frustrating (laying on her bed while she is trying to work, having to be helped to do everything).
Love this Laura: It is not abandonment by God either! He left us the Holy Spirit.
12. I re read the whole book, because it’s been awhile. And I kept coming to tears at the parallels to our time. The duplicity and twisting of truth to where you don’t know who to believe outside of scripture, and so many don’t hold to it, either. So while I resonated with all the ones listed, the one I want to share was not among them. It is when Lucy said, “we’re so afraid of being sent away; You have sent us back into our old world so often.” And that is what it feels like when ‘life’ in my body, on this earth, takes me away from what I had been experiencing in His presence with Him. When you have to come down from being with Him on the mountaintop. To no longer have any separation is what I’m looking forward to! When I got married, that’s what I most valued. I didn’t have to say goodbye anymore to this man I loved. We could be together. Now, I know that God is always with me by His Spirit, but I also know that heaven will be different and better. There is a song from Beth Moore’s study, The Patriarchs, talking about Abraham longing for a better home. Both the quote from Lewis and the song awaken in me the same intense longing for heaven.
6.For while we are in this tent we groan and are burdened.We long to be clothed with our heavenly bodies.Joni’s heart is fixed on Jesus. She tuns to God and praises Him. I have an album in which she sang about heaven. It brings tears it is so beautiful.She has the joy of the Lord, though the physical pain is ever present. I know she gives God glory anyway. I was privileged to hear her speak twice.
7. Grumbling and moaning are sinful because they are complaining like the Israe,ites to Moses. Groaning acknowledges the struggle yet we push on anyway.
8. Who is groaning? The whole creation
B. Suffering and glorification are inseparable.Groaning is the process as the children of God obtain glorious freedom!
You make me want to read the whole book again, Mary!
I love this Mary. I have not read the entire series, only the first book. I don’t know why I have not….I love C.S. Lewis!! Thank you for sharing this quote! I think I need to go back and read all of them!
I often have heard about The Chronicles of Narnia and read snippets of it but now would want to read the whole series! What an imagination C. S. Lewis had!
13. What is your take-a-way and why? Every bit of it is worth taking away. The difference between groaning and murmuring, the simplicity of true prayer, how it all lines up with Revelations.
I had never read/listened to The Last Battle (I read hundreds of books to my children over the years, “chapter books” were our nightly read. Yet I somehow missed the Chronicles of Narnia). Lewis has such a way of portraying the incomprehensible. I was struck by the people that were on the dark side of the door and couldn’t see, smell or taste what the others were trying to show them. And how quickly they found themselves on the other side of the door not even realizing at first that they had “died”. The only thing that I didn’t understand was how the soldier who loyally followed Tash (not sure if I spelled it right since I had an audiobook) right up to the end was now on the other side of the door. I know it was explained that every good thing that he did for Tash was counted as a good thing to Aslan, but I don’t understand why. Unless it was to show that God opens the eyes of whomever He wills. Or maybe I missed something, that sometimes happens when I’m listening while driving.
I was glad to see some new names on the blog.
I did not quite understand the soldier part either, Dawn. I wondered if it was someone who had not been told or heard about Jesus, yet was seeking to find God.
That is interesting about everything good thing done for Tash — perhaps because God looks at the heart and they thought Tash was the real God? Interesting!
Catching up here!
Wednesday: Groaning Because of Expectation
7. Paige contrasted grumbling and murmuring with groaning. What is the difference? Why are the first two sins and the last actually positive? How might you apply this?
Grumbling and murmuring are sins because they are the idols of self. Groaning is giving expression to valid emotions to God alone.
8. Read Romans 8:22-28
A. Who is groaning and why according to verses 22-25?
Creation groans, we groan, and the Spirit groans.
B. Paige’s brother is an obstetrician and she told a story of a woman in hard labor and the name she gave to her baby. She talked about suffering and glorification being inseparable. How do you see this in this story? In your life?
After a very long hard labor, the woman gave birth to a girl. And she named her Shekinah Glory. The suffering of labor giving way to the joy of childbirth. The suffering of chronic pain for me gives way to the character of more empathy for others who are in pain as well.
*C. Why is Romans 8:26-27 an encouragement and not a discouragement to pray? Does prayer require our strength? Our wisdom? Our insight? Certain words? Can our imperfect hurt others or ourselves? How do these verses fan our hope into flame?
This passage is an encouragement to pray because it reminds me that I am not alone in my praying. Even when I do not know what to pray for, the Holy Spirit will interpret my words and translate them to the Father ( like a perfect interpreter) to align them with the Father’s will.
I love this, Bing! Grumbling and murmuring are sins because they are the idols of self. Groaning is giving expression to valid emotions to God alone. So true!!!
I, like Laura, did not remember the name in the birth story! Shekinah Glory! How perfect!!
7. Paige contrasted grumbling and murmuring with groaning. What is the difference? Why are the first two sin and the last actually positive? How might you apply this?
Grumbling and murmuring is a dis-satisfaction with God and your situation. Groaning and moaning leads to HOPE. We long and hope for the day He comes.
8. Read Romans 8:22-28
A. Who is groaning and why according to verses 22-25?
All of creation because of sin and suffering. We groan in anticipation and expectation.
B. Paige’s brother is an obstetrician and she told a story of a woman in a hard labor and the name she gave to her baby. She talked about suffering and glorification being inseparable. How do you see this in this story? In your life?
I don’t remember the name she shouted out (I tend to just listen to the real life stories, not take notes on them).
Suffering and glory are inseparable because suffering leads to glory! Glory grows out of suffering. Some pain leads to death and some leads to life. Your pains are not death spasms, suffering has a purpose.
*C. Why is Romans 8:26-27 an encouragement and not a discouragement to pray? Does prayer require our strength? Our wisdom? Our insight? Certain words? Can our imperfect hurt others or ourselves? How do these verses fan our hope into flame?
It is an encouragement, because the Holy Spirit is with us. The desire overwhelms the distraction. The Holy Spirit is the “first fruits,” the first “installment.” Come Lord Jesus! Come today! Our strength comes from the HS. We just cry out. The HS knows what we need so we don’t have to know what to pray for, the HS intercedes for us. The Father searches our hearts and our prayers are always answered. We should always be looking forward to heaven; what is to come. Do not be satisfied with this world! Our hope is strengthened by the Holy Spirit. We are not alone. Ever. Thank You Lord Jesus!
12. Read the last two chapters of C. S. Lewis’ “The Last Battle.” Here are some quotes — let them fuel your imagination. Do you resonate with them? If so, how?
A. The term is over. The holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning. This life we are living, is as a term in school. We are learning to know God, to trust Him, to live a life that continues to draw us closer to Him. We know there is more when we “graduate or get to the holidays”, but we cannot capture it in our imaginations. It is so beyond our finite minds, yet we know that He will help us persevere and get through the term. When we complete our journey, we will then be able to see the beautiful and perfect place that we only now and then get a glimpse of…it will be our real home.
B. That was not the real Narnia. That had a beginning and end. It was only a shadow or a copy of the real Narnia which has always been here and always will be here. This earth is only a shadow, whose brilliance and beauty we cannot totally see now. It is temporary; it began for us when we were born and it will end when we leave this earth. When God turns the page on our life, we will join Him in the real Narnia/Heaven. It will be the perfect version of where we now reside.
C. It reminds me of somewhere but I can’t give it a name. Could it be somewhere we once stayed for a holiday when we were very, very small? We will know it is familiar, but it will be so much more perfect and so much better. Years ago, we heard an author speak about a book he co-wrote. It is called The Privileged Planet. It is a wonderful book from The Discovery Institute. There is a dvd on it as well. It helps you see how God so intricately designed this place we call earth. I have never looked at the world in the same way. It is well worth the read.
D. Have you noticed one can’t feel afraid, even if one wants to? Try it. Our minds and hearts will be so changed that we will remember no pain, no sorrow, no loss. We will have only joy and fellowship with God in His Glory! All relationships will be healed! All bodies will be new and spiritual!
E. The current was racing away behind you, but you were such a wonderful swimmer that you could make headway against it. Everything we imagine, will be possible! We will be able to float in the sky with the angels, swim deep in the crystal clear ocean with the beautiful and colorful sea life. There will be nothing to fear! Sharon’s son and my daughter will ride the waves without their surfboards! They will sail across the water like beautiful flying birds! They will be perfectly dry when they come out of the water!
F. I have come home at last! This is my real country! I belong here. This is the land I have been looking for all my life, though I never knew it till now…Come further up, come further in! We will know that this is our true home! We will see the beautiful sunsets that Dee sees from her home on the lake, but it will always be light and color will be everywhere. There will be no time! Dee’s Steve will be hugging her and his children and and we can all hear him laughing his beautiful laugh!
G. Share a quote you love. ” This is still Narnia, and more real and more beautiful than the Narnia down below, just as it was more real and more beautiful than the Narnia outside the stable door! I see…world with world, Narnia within Narnia…” “Yes,” said Tumnus, “like an onion: except that as you continue to go in and in , each circle is larger than the last.”
H. Revelation students — what parallels did you see?
It is definitely a new earth. It is recognizable, yet so much more than we can see or experience here. We have just a hint of it on this planet. It will be so perfect and so beautiful.
Revelation 21:1-2 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no long any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.”
John 14:3 “If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.”
here is the book link….
The Privileged Planet: How Our Place in the Cosmos Is Designed for Discovery
by Guillermo Gonzalez and Jay Richards | Feb 1, 2004
4.7 out of 5 star
So good Patti. I put it on next week as it has to be approved and I think most will miss it otherwise. Sometimes link trigger a red flag as often it is spam going to something to be sold.
Thank you, Dee. It is such a good read…and the dvd is excellent too. Really helped me see how God created this place just for His people.
Thursday: New Heaven, New Earth, New Us!
*9. God will transform this earth into a new earth FOR US. What will it be like? Share any passages you know. Consider Isaiah 11:6-9 in the Old Testament and Revelation 21:1-7, 22:1-5 in the New. And then brainstorm. What are you most excited about? Remember that we cannot imagine MORE than He has for us (1 Cor. 2:9).
I am so excited about our True Home! Yesterday, Friday, yes, I am late here, a new friend came by, and we had a great visit. Before she left, she handed me a copy of Elyse Fitzpatrick’s book titled, Home. I haven’t read any of her books before, but I noticed that Dr. Paul Tripp wrote the foreword. She had me at Tripp’s foreword! And I thought, how very timely for our study! I couldn’t wait to dig in some more after I read the first few pages.
Isaiah 11 talks about a child leading some of earth’s as we know them, natural ferocious animals; the animals not hunting prey; the most vulnerable, represented by the suckling child, will not be hurt.
Revelation 21:1-7
No more sea, no more death, tears, sorrow, crying, no more thirst. To me, this means no more suffering. I am not sure about “no more sea”-I guess, no more expanse that would separate continents, so we have access to everything without the need for anything man-made like ships? I love C.S. Lewis’ The Last Battle even all the more!
*10. Read John 14:1-4. Again, He is preparing a place FOR US. What is its purpose? What is the center of our eternal joy in that place (v.3b)?
There is a place for each one of us. The center of our joy is being with Jesus!
*11. And what will WE be like? Or rather WHOM will we be like? See John 17:22-26, Colossians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:1-2. Further reflect on 1 Corinthians 15:42-55 for your own encouragement and HOPE.
John 17 We will have the glory that Jesus has. Colossians 3 We will appear in Jesus’ glory
I john 3 We shall be like Jesus and when we see him, we would know. No more guessing on what Jesus looks like!
I Corinthians 15 We shall all be changed! I will not have to deal with sin anymore. I will see my loved ones. Wait, I do not even have to pray anymore because there will be no need for help, just joyous company with God and brothers and sisters from all nations, tribes, and languages! And I do not have to identify nations, tribes, and languages, either.
Love your comments about I Corinthians 15, Bing. We shall all be changed! I will not have to deal with sin anymore…How marvelous, and we forget this important fact as we imagine the glory ahead!
12. Read the last two chapters of C. S. Lewis’ “The Last Battle.” Here are some quotes — let them fuel your imagination. Do you resonate with them? If so, how?
A. The term is over. The holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning. I often think of this verse: Weeping may tarry for the night but joy comes in the morning. Psalm 30:5b
B. That was not the real Narnia. That had a beginning and end. It was only a shadow or a copy of the real Narnia which has always been here and always will be here.
This world is not my “Narnia”. Everything here will end. Life in the real Narnia, Heaven, will have no end. What joy and hope this brings!
C. It reminds me of somewhere but I can’t give it a name. Could it be somewhere we once stayed for a holiday when we were very, very small?
I have started reading, “Home; how Heaven and the new earth satisfy our deepest longings” by Elyse Kirkpatrick. I think my somewhere is a place where my heart is at home. I have lived in at least 12 physical homes and although they were home for that particular time in my life, there is a longing for a permanent home. My husband and I think where we are right now would probably be our last earthly home unless God moves us again before He calls us to our real Home. And that somewhere always includes loved ones. when I get to Heaven, there will no longer be any longing for home because I will be in my true home. (Rabbit trailing)
D. Have you noticed one can’t feel afraid, even if one wants to? Try it.
I tried this and some fears came up so what a day that would be when I will no longer fear even if I want to. But in Heaven, I will not even try because fear will be gone!
E. The current was racing away behind you, but you were such a wonderful swimmer that you could make headway against it.
I am not a good swimmer at all so this sounds fun to me! I can float on my back and watch the clouds-who knows I may swim with the fish and go underwater.
F. I have come home at last! This is my real country! I belong here. This is the land I have been looking for all my life, though I never knew it till now…Come further up, come further in!
Is it possible that we are already on our journey further up and further in figuratively while still here on earth?
G. Share a quote you love.
“You do not yet look happy as I mean for you to be.” Aslan
I love this quote because it means that it is okay to feel sad, lonely, homesick while on this earth. Nothing here will ever satisfy.
H. Revelation students — what parallels did you see?
Narnia is symbolic of the heavenly Promised Land (the closing of the 7th trumpet on Revelation 11:19). I found it interesting that in revelation 11:12, the phrase come up was mentioned: “ …they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud…”
I am not sure if this means something as it relates to further up and further in?
Friday:
13. What is your take-a-way and why?
Suffering has really taken on a different perspective for me -it is no longer an intruder but a friend that makes Jesus more near, clear, and dear.
Dee, thank you for being such a wonderful blog study leader, influencer, sister-in-Christ!
Friday
13. What is your take-a-way and why?
1. The groaning and prayer of the Holy Spirit … I really felt comforted that I can pour my heart out to Him and many times there aren’t any words, that the Holy Spirit takes over and it’s in accordance to His will!
2. Suffering is minimal compared to what I will have in glory and that helps me live and focus backwards to forwards…keeping my eyes upwards!
*9. God will transform this earth into a new earth FOR US. What will it be like? Share any passages you know. Consider Isaiah 11:6-9 in the Old Testament and Revelation 21:1-7, 22:1-5 in the New. And then brainstorm. What are you most excited about? Remember that we cannot imagine MORE than He has for us (1 Cor. 2:9).
I am most excited to be rid of my earthly body! The pain and tears being gone….that will also be good. His arms around me, telling me He knows I tried my best and was faithful.
*10. Read John 14:1-4. Again, He is preparing a place FOR US. What is its purpose? What is the center of our eternal joy in that place (v.3b)?
The purpose is so He is always with us! He is our center of eternal joy.
*11. And what will WE be like? Or rather WHOM will we be like? See John 17:22-26, Colossians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:1-2. Further reflect on 1 Corinthians 15:42-55 for your own encouragement and HOPE.
We will be like Jesus!
5. Read 2 Corinthians 4:14-18
A. How do these verses echo the call to hope?
In these verses, Paul is helping to set eternity in our hearts. I would think that for someone who believes that when you die, there’s nothing that comes after, you might be tempted to just give up in the face of suffering. But Paul says, “That is why we never give up. Though our bodies are dying, our spirits are being renewed every day.” He keeps pointing us forward to eternity, promising us that the same God who raised Jesus will also raise us.
B. How is it encouraged by comparison? (v 17) Of sight, of length of time, of weightiness?
Verse 17 shows us a kind of scale. On one side are our present troubles. They are “quite small” and won’t last for very long. On the other side of the scale is the immeasurable, great glory that these very troubles are producing for us, and it is glory that will last forever. The weight of that glory tips the scale decidedly that way.
C. How are we to regard our lives in the present? (See both 2 Cor 4:7 and 4:17)
We can see our lives in the present, though interspersed with times of trouble and suffering and weakness, as an opportunity to show forth God’s glory and His power, as it shines through the cracks of our weakness. We must remember that our time on earth in our bodies was never meant to last forever; we have something wonderful to look forward to.
D. Meditate on the word incomparable in verse 17 (or “beyond all comparison”) What point is being made?
My translation says “immeasurably” great glory. The point is that we can’t begin to imagine what God has prepared for us – the glory…seeing Him in His full glory, our own glory that will be revealed in us.
6. Continue reading in 2 Corinthians 5:1-5
A. What causes the groaning in this passage? Is it a lack of faith? An abandonment by God?
It is our dying, weary bodies that make us groan and sigh. It is not a lack of faith or that God has abandoned us. Rather, we long to one day slip out of these earthly bodies of ours and to put on our new heavenly bodies, just like putting on brand new clothes.
B. Is our groaning caused by our frustration with the present and a heart fixed on God or by our fixation on the present and our frustration with God? (Where is Joni’s heart fixed according to Paige’s illustration?)
Joni’s living in a wheelchair since the age of 17 causes her to groan with a heart fixed on God and a longing for her new resurrected body. I can tell when my heart is fixated on the present and when I am frustrated with God, that He’s not doing what I want in my life or in the lives of others, because all I’m wanting is a quick fix now and for my discomfort to be over and for things to just go along smoothly. I think I learned something new, at least for me, this week, about examining my own frustrations more deeply to see what is my end goal? Where is my heart really fixed? God says it’s okay to groan and long for eternity and He doesn’t equate that with grumbling and complaining.
This is such a good point, Susan! Where is my heart really fixed? A quick fix is sometimes what I desire to relieve my sorrow or anxiety of the present. Thank you for this reminder!
” I think I learned something new, at least for me, this week, about examining my own frustrations more deeply to see what is my end goal? Where is my heart really fixed? God says it’s okay to groan and long for eternity and He doesn’t equate that with grumbling and complaining.”
7. Paige contrasted grumbling and murmuring with groaning. What is the difference? Why are the first two sin and the last actually positive? How might you apply this?
Grumbling and complaining serve no real purpose. It reminds me of the Israelites in the wilderness, grumbling and murmuring against the Lord, and He got angry with them. Maybe they should have “groaned” with longing for the Promised Land. Grumbling and complaining focus on the present and there is no looking forward with anticipation. I believe it also shows a heart that is not trusting God and is not thankful to God. I liked the C.S. Lewis quote about “Hell begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining….”
8. Read Romans 8:22-28
A. Who is groaning and why according to verses 22-25?
Both the creation and Christians are groaning. We groan in anticipation of being released from pain and suffering, and for when we will be given our full rights as God’s children, including our new bodies.
B. Paige’s brother is an obstetrician and she told a story of a woman in a hard labor and the name she gave to her baby. She talked about suffering and glorification being inseparable. How do you see this in this story? In your life?
The woman, after suffering a very difficult labor, named her child Shekinah Grace, I believe. I think Shekinah means God’s glory? Paige said that suffering and glory were welded together in Jesus’ life, and they will be in ours, too. Since glory grows out of suffering, Paul uses the language of labor and birth here. Suffering can feel like death, but I need to remind myself that it is instead the pain of birth in me; the birth of growth, perseverance, and maturity.
C. Why is Romans 8:26-27 an encouragement and not a discouragement to pray? Does prayer require our strength? Our wisdom? Our insight? Certain words? Can our imperfect hurt others or ourselves? How do these verses fan our hope into flame?
This should encourage us to pray because it says that it’s impossible to mess up when we pray. We may not know what or how to pray, or have the right words to say, but we can count on the Spirit’s prayers for us. Our imperfect prayers are made perfect by the Spirit, who will express things for us according to God’s will. That can kindle a flame of thanksgiving for the Spirit.
9. What I most look forward to is an end to the pain and suffering in this world, like all the suffering I see at the hospital, and an end to death, because when someone dies, there’s something in us that cries this isn’t right; this shouldn’t be. I think it was in Revelation too that we read a passage about God spreading a tent over us, and it’s just a picture of His care and nurturing of us and we lack nothing.
10. Jesus is preparing a place for us so that we can be with Him where He is, for always. Jesus will be the center of our joy; we will be happy because we are with Him.
11. What will we be like? We will be like Him, and we will finally be perfectly one with Him. Right now, I have an earthly body just like the first man, Adam, but one day, I will be like Jesus, the man from heaven, and my resurrected body will be like His.
12. Read the last two chapters of C. S. Lewis’ “The Last Battle.” Here are some quotes — let them fuel your imagination. Do you resonate with them? If so, how?
A. The term is over. The holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning.
B. That was not the real Narnia. That had a beginning and end. It was only a shadow or a copy of the real Narnia which has always been here and always will be here.
C. It reminds me of somewhere but I can’t give it a name. Could it be somewhere we once stayed for a holiday when we were very, very small?
D. Have you noticed one can’t feel afraid, even if one wants to? Try it.
E. The current was racing away behind you, but you were such a wonderful swimmer that you could make headway against it.
F. I have come home at last! This is my real country! I belong here. This is the land I have been looking for all my life, though I never knew it till now…Come further up, come further in!
G. Share a quote you love.
I will say that fantasy is not really a favorite genre of mine, however I really want to try to like the CS Lewis series. I like the idea of it. So I found a book at our beach house last month (we leave books for each other to read) that was all 7 books of the Chronicles of Narnia in one book! I snagged it so I read the last 2 chapters of the book “The Last Battle” today. It was ok; kind of hard to “get.” I like the “further up and farther in” idea. The closer you get to Him, the more you are satisfied. I love the letter D quote!