We’ve arrived at the Pinnacle of Romans: Romans 8.
Paige calls Romans 8 a picture of “the normal Christian life.” Christ is either in us or He is not, there is no in-between. Paige said the in-between is an invention of those who want to sit comfortably in their sin. Instead, we are to live with a continual awareness of Christ in us and us in Christ.
She quoted St. Patrick’s prayer:
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me, Christ on my right, Christ on my left, Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down…
This reminded me of one of Terence Malick’s films. Malick is a devout Catholic and the secular world cannot fathom his movies. At the Oscars one year, Billy Crystal sang, to the tune of Alfie, “What’s it all about, Terence?” As Paige said, the secular person lives without an awareness of God and the unseen world.
The following link will take you to a clip of the perspective of a priest ministering to the sick, the lonely, and to those caught in the painful bondage of sin, such as a husband (played by Ben Afflick) whose conscience is troubled as he is torn between his wife and another woman. Sin produces pain! And we are called, as a royal priesthood, to a hurting, sinful, and broken world.
Even if you watch just a little you’ll get a glimpse, not just of a devout priest’s life, but of “the normal Christian life.” Every person within a few feet of us should be seen with the eyes of Christ — everything we do should be unto Christ — all our thoughts should be honoring to Christ…and we must battle fiercely with our own sin so we can have peace with God. Here is the link to the clip from “To The Wonder”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJCfS_OyxGk
Here is Paige’s lecture for next week’s lecture which will begin at 10 central on Sept 29 if you want to get started early!
Questions in Purple are for those simulataneously reviewing Revelation 1-11.
Questions preceded by a * are Paige’s.
Sunday: Getting Started
- What stood out to you from the above and why?
- Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture.
- Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not — there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16?
Monday: Review and Overview
4. Justification is described in Romans 8:1-3. What has been paid for and how?
“Jesus filled up our bank account. Now we are to SPEND THE BANK ACCOUNT.” (We are not to live like the Beverly Hillbillies.)
5. Romans 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification?
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13?
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option?
*6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification? What is the great danger in reversing their order? What is the great danger in separating them? What role does faith play in each?
Tuesday: Fix Your Minds
7. Review Romans 8:5-8. What are we told to do and why?
*8. John Owen (17th century) said that “voluntary thoughts are the best measure and indication of the frame of our minds.” So what is the default setting of my mind—what comes to it most naturally when it is allowed to wander? Do I default to worldly thoughts or spiritual thoughts?
9. The view our study in Revelation has been taking is that the pictures and numbers are symbolic rather than literal most of the time. For example, “the Mark of the Beast” or “666” that is put on men’s foreheads and hands represents not a literal number on a literal forehead and hand. Do you remember what they symbolize and how that relates to this passage in Romans?
10. Paige said we must fill up our minds and asked: “What are your reading? What are you watching? And who is an influencer in your life?
11. Paige said that secular people can be nice, but there is a big difference, an antithetical way they walk in contrast to believers. What is it?
12. Paige quoted John Piper’s though on “Christian hedonism” which is that glorifying God is the path that leads to joy. Dying to self, though initially painful, can actually lead to better relationships, more joy — share how you have experienced this.
Wednesday: Occupation of the Heart and Mortification of Our Flesh
13. Read Romans 8:9-11 and share what you learn about the Spirit.
*14. What does it mean for us that the Spirit “dwells” within us? That He does not drop by, or stop in, or come and go? That we are His temple? That we are not our own? Is that comforting? Convicting? Disconcerting? Is this a source of security or insecurity for us?
15. Ben Franklin and Tolstoy listed virtues to aspire to, whereas Saint Patrick prayed for Christ to be all around him through the day. Which is more effective and why?
16. Read Romans 8:11-17.
A. According to verse 11, what was the Spirit able to do and what should this mean for us?
B. List some of the promises give to those who live by the Spirit in verses 12-17.
17. Describe how to parent unidolatrously, to eat unidolatrously, to play sports unidolatrously, to use the gifts God has given you unidolatrously. (Choose what is most relevant to you.)
Thursday: The Expulsive Power of a New Affection
18. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What are we told to do and why?
*19. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What is the order of the commands in this passage? Where is the THEREFORE? Why must that always be the order in sanctification? Does our security in God’s love lead to the mortification of sin, or follow the mortification of sin?
20. In Revelation 10, John is told to “eat the scroll” and it will make his stomach bitter, but in his mouth will be sweet as honey.” How could this riddle relate to the normal Christian life?
Friday:
21. What is your take-away this week and why?
156 comments
1. What stood out in the introduction and why.
That carnality is an invention of those who want to sit comfortably with their sin. Seems like some people want to believe they are Christians and going to heaven, but only barely inside the door. As though everything they want is in the world and they hope to dabble in it without giving up assurance instead of loving Jesus and following hard after Him. Does anyone use that phrase anymore??
The movie clip didn’t play for me but by what you said about it I’d say of course the world doesn’t understand the director. The things of God are foolishness to the world and they can’t understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Whether it is calling sin sin generally, sin in someone specifically, battling it in ourselves, or having compassion on those suffering the effects of sin, they just don’t get it.
Eras 2. One thing from Paige. There are no imperatives in this chapter, only the description of what God designed the Christian life to look like.
3. We are either in Christ or not. In Revelation Jesus says He does not accept those who are lukewarm; He will spit them out.
Mary, yes to this-“there are no imperatives only a description of what God designed the Christian life to be like”. I am learning to be more accepting of life as it comes and to use the trials that come as a springboard for prayer, opportunities to be dependent on God, and to stay united with Christ.
Bing, I really needed to hear this. Thank you.
We just got home from three days with our son and family and I feel emotionally spent, insecure and discouraged. I need to focus on Jesus, not circumstances or my feelings.
Mary, I hear you. I believe the more we get closer to God, the more keenly we are aware of the realities of life and “wish” they weren’t so obvious to us. The old life is a more carefree life since we are not tuned in as much to that which grieves our Father. And the enemy knows that and plays with our thought life which in turn affects our feelings. I am a very “feeling” person and often times have to really talk Scripture to my soul and make my mind obedient to Christ. My feelings then follow though they may take a little while.
Mary and Bing — your conversation reminds me of Keller’s thought that the believe has both more joy and more pain than the unbeliever.
As though everything they want is in the world and they hope to dabble in it without giving up assurance instead of loving Jesus and following hard after Him. Does anyone use that phrase anymore?? Mary, this is so true! I love this whole conversation with you and Bing. I can relate to all of it. Thank you.
Mary, I hear you. I believe the more we get closer to God, the more keenly we are aware of the realities of life and “wish” they weren’t so obvious to us. The old life is a more carefree life since we are not tuned in as much to that which grieves our Father. And the enemy knows that and plays with our thought life which in turn affects our feelings. I am a very “feeling” person and often times have to really talk Scripture to my soul and make my mind obedient to Christ. My feelings then follow though they may take a little while.
4. What has Jesus done for us and how? He completely paid for our sin with His blood. Made me think of 2 Peter 1:3-4. His devine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness… justification and sanctification!! We can spend the money….
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
The Love of Romans 8:39-“nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture.
I honestly haven’t finished yet but I will be able to tomorrow. My schedule has changed quite a bit and I’ve had a hard time posting last week but I am loving the lectures. I’m only going slow this week because I needed to hear and re-hear the first half. I think I have rested in my debt being paid and living as if my account is zero…even believing in my future inheritance, but forgetting that my account is FULL, TODAY. And what good is it if I don’t draw on it? Instead I treat it as zero and try to earn pennies….
Also when she talked about fixating our minds on the Word. We cannot do that if we are not IN the Word, filling our minds with it.
3. Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not — there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16?
God spits the lukewarm out of His mouth. We are either hot or cold, for Him or against Him, in Him or not in Him, but there is nothing in between. I liked too how last week Paige reminded us we are born for worship. We will worship something. Our minds fixate on somethings. It is either Jesus or something else.
Lizzy, I haven’t finished listening to Paige, too. But I love what you shared as well. Our accounts are full. TODAY. I can draw from it anytime.
Love this from you Lizzy — you are resting that your account is paid but forgetting it is also full!
Lizzie, such a good point to bring forward, how we can fixate on our idols or we can fixate on God. We get to choose! And we today have more opportunity to fill ourselves with God and His truth than ever before in history. We can listen to someone read scripture in version after version 24/7. We can listen to podcasts and sermons and teachings. We can read the Bible in a dizzying array of choices. We can hear scripture and worship songs. We can read biographies and inspirational books…. If we do not fixate on Jesus, it is because we are choosing not to.
Mary–reading this gave me chills “we today have more opportunity to fill ourselves with God and His truth than ever before in history”–WOW. So true and so convicting. I was in a season recently where my mind seemed to flood with anxious thoughts while I was trying to fall asleep. We started playing hymns at bedtime and it has helped me so much to “fix” my mind on Him and sleep.
Lizzy, wonderful suggestion about listening to hymns at bedtime! What is it about when the lights go out, that our minds often light up with every anxious thought and fear? Sometimes at bedtime, I listen to James Martin’s Examen podcast, which helps me to reflect on the day and try to see where God was active. It’s just another way of focusing my thoughts on Him before I go to sleep,
5. Rom. 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification?
I like this from the Westminster Shorter Catechism “Sanctification is the work of God’s free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.”
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13?
It is the Spirit’s work in us to make us like Christ. Walking according to the Spirit, setting our minds on Him, with His Spirit indwelling us.
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option?
I am either living by the Spirit and His desire for me or I am living according to my flesh, doing what I desire.
I love this, Lizzy. It makes it very clear. I like this from the Westminster Shorter Catechism “Sanctification is the work of God’s free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.”
Sunday: Getting Started
What stood out to you from the above and why?
St. Patrick’s prayer stood out to me and how it was used in the movie, To The Wonder”. And I hope I am not off-kilter in using this verse to be similar in thought: Psalm 139:5 “You hem me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me.” What a powerful image of the company of Christ whatever I am doing, wherever and whenever. Matthew’s special memory verse from The Chosen 😊 “Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. “ Psalm 139:7-10 Oh, I am rabbit-trailing here!
Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture.
That Romans 8 is a picture of the normal Christian life is a revelation to me. Paige sure has a way with words and God is using her in my life to firm up convictions that I have never put in words. And am thankful that it is not about Paige but the power of the written Word and the work of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not — there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16?
You are neither cold nor hot. You are lukewarm (no in-between) therefore I will spit you out of my mouth
Psalm 139:5 goes perfectly with St. Patrick’s prayer!
Bing, the vision of Him hemming us in behind and before and laying His hand upon us also reminds me of the reciprocal possession! Thanks for sharing that…good stuff❤️
Bing, I think your other Scripture references tie-in perfectly with St. Patrick’s prayer!
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
Tough stuff. There is no in between. I get it, but….we are human. We try, as Paul says, to do the right thing but we don’t. So, we may want to be solely in Christ, or we don’t, but I suspect we are in the middle by no fault of ourselves, because we are sinful humans.
I liked the quote and I liked your comments about Christ all around us. Not sure I liked the movie clip? It was sad to me. I don’t think we are to be sad all the time. Maybe if the music were a bit peppier? I think Jesus might have laughed every so often? I love the way The Chosen portrays Him!
Perhaps He was somewhere between The Wonder and The Chosen! 🙂
Laura, on the fact that there is no in between… maybe it is easier for you to relate to this statement…. There is no such thing as being a little bit pregnant. You either are, or you are not. It doesn’t matter whether you act like it or not. The facts are the facts.
Mary, what a great example!
1. What stood out to you from the above and why? The movie clip has intrigued me… to contrast (compare) the life of a priest serving with a man struggling with adultery. Thought provoking and stark portrayal of what we have discussed here for years. The thing I am pondering most is the the internal pleading for the man not to cheat .. it seems the obvious choice, the right thing! But when I consider my own idolatry (adultery) … the struggle within, the choices that should have been different… new perspective, very convicting.
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture. Again, so many things. Like Lizzy, I liked the FULL bank account concept. Other things: >>“We are never saved by our sanctification, only justification can save. However you cannot separate the two. We are declared righteous therefore we are being made righteous.” >>The same Spirit that raised Jesus is in me…never doubt that He can sanctify me. >> She quoted a random pastor, “what you are when you’re alone with God, that you are and nothing else.”
Always love your reflections, Jill. I think Terrence Malick is too reflective for most, and I admit sometimes his movies drag, but they are so poignant and beautiful. I thought he truly expressed so well the pain our idols bring.
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
Oh wow….the film clip. (Terrence Malick movies are amazing; I have seen The Tree of Life and A Hidden Life). This clip was so moving, it brought tears. I have always loved what I see as the beautiful, ministerial role of a Catholic priest who serves as the hands and feet of Christ, and in particular, the sacrament of the anointing of the sick and administering last rites. As you see him minister to hurting, broken people, Christ is always on his lips and in his thoughts. Our world is so broken and hurting.
And we, too, are called to minister to the hurting and broken people we meet. To our own families, to those who are hard to get along with, who irritate and annoy us, who try our patience. Every person within a few feet of us should be seen with the eyes of Christ – everything we do should be unto Christ – all our thoughts should be honoring to Christ.
Susan- very convicting of what stood out to you-Every person within a few feet of us should be seen with the eyes of Christ – everything we do should be unto Christ – all our thoughts should be honoring to Christ. I go back to my idol of comfort-the hurting and broken people in my life takes a lot of energy and time. I don’t like the discomfort that comes along with ministering to them. I need to see these people with the eyes of Christ. Oftentimes, I just do not want to look into the depravity of my selfishness when I see someone broken and hurting. I just want to fix it so I do not have to deal with the discomfort anymore. Ugh! Thanks be to God I am not left alone with my self-seeking efforts and the Holy Spirit does His convicting. Truly, what Dee shared before or somebody (?), we are to be daily repenters.
Oh, Bing! I so resemble what you said, ” I just do not want to look into the depravity of my selfishness when I see someone broken and hurting. I just want to fix it so I do not have to deal with the discomfort anymore.”
Bing, you articulated the struggle we have so well; “….the hurting and broken people in my life takes a lot of energy and time. I don’t like the discomfort that comes along with ministering to them….I just want to fix it so I do not have to deal with the discomfort anymore.” Add to that feelings, at times, of ambivalence towards the person who is hurting and broken. My idol of comfort is always needing to be confronted, too.
This is beautiful, Susan.
Susan — I knew you would like Terence Malick. Most don’t — but I knew you would. Tell me how your speaking went last weekend at the retreat!
Sunday
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
The comment from Paige…the in-between is an invention of those who want to sit comfortably in their sin. As I have said before, Satan owns the fence. I feel in the world we live in today that so much sin is justified because that’s where we want to make our address at. It doesn’t matter that God doesn’t dwell there, as long as I’m happy and feel the compromise is ok…such dangerous territory we are in. In the movie clip you can really see the struggle each man is having with their relationships, one with women and the other the Lord. I thought the correlation was eye opening as in every day life, moment by moment we have a choice to make. As Paige said, where do our affections lie, with Jesus or our sin?
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture.
The one thing is the “reciprocal” and knowing that I’m included in the indwelling of the Spirit, Father and Son as they each indwell one another. That was comforting to me…Wow, so awesome!
“And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God.”
Romans 8:10
3. Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not — there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16?
We can’t be lukewarm, we’re either hot or cold. If we’re lukewarm He will spit us out of His mouth.
Sharon, this is SO SPOT ON!! Yes! the in-between is an invention of those who want to sit comfortably in their sin. As I have said before, Satan owns the fence. I feel in the world we live in today that so much sin is justified because that’s where we want to make our address at. It doesn’t matter that God doesn’t dwell there, as long as I’m happy and feel the compromise is ok…such dangerous territory we are in. In the movie clip you can really see the struggle each man is having with their relationships, one with women and the other the Lord. I thought the correlation was eye opening as in every day life, moment by moment we have a choice to make. As Paige said, where do our affections lie, with Jesus or our sin?
Sharon, I wasn’t sure where Paige was going with the reciprocal possession until she explained it. I thought that was WOW, too!
Yes, Satan owns the fence!
And yes. we have been invited into the dance of the Trinity!
Dee. I thought of that while she was drawing it but couldn’t remember which study and passage that was from. I just love the vision of it being a dance.
Sharon, your word picture of “who owns the fence” is so insightful. We do justify sin because that’s where we want to live.
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture.
We get everything Christ has by being in Him.
3 Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not — there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16?
Choose either hot or cold, but NOT luke warm!
1. What stood out to you from the above and why? I loved so much of what is right here. The clip from the film was so moving. This priest was an inspiration, such an example of one who sees, feels and lives with the eyes, ears, and mind of Christ.
Paige calls Romans 8 a picture of “the normal Christian life.” Christ is either in us or He is not, there is no in-between. Paige said the in-between is an invention of those who want to sit comfortably in their sin. Instead, we are to live with a continual awareness of Christ in us and us in Christ. Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me, Christ on my right, Christ on my left, Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down…
Every person within a few feet of us should be seen with the eyes of Christ — everything we do should be unto Christ — all our thoughts should be honoring to Christ…and we must battle fiercely with our own sin so we can have peace with God.
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture. This is more than just one thing, but they all weave together: Our mindset reveals who we are. Everything that absorbs our thoughts. What do you spend your solitude doing: When you are alone with God, what do you fixate on? You cannot set your mind on what you are NOT feeding yourself. What is influencing us? Our nature controls our mindset; thus our battle. Learn to protect your mind. Your true religion is what you do with your solitude. His path and boundaries are good for us.
Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not — there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16? “I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you our of My mouth.” You cannot be both mine and not mine~ you are either in Christ or not.
Patti — you know how we hear all the time the importance of what we put in our mind. I’m singing more and going to read more on The Gospel Coalition website and the classic books. I love having you here, dear friend.
Dee and Patti, I started watching a show recommended to me on Netflix last night and the whole time I’m thinking, this isn’t a good thing to be feeding into my mind. I was embarrassed that I watched two episodes but went to bed knowing that I wasn’t going to watch any more and repented. My father-in-law refused to watch Dancing With The Stars because of the outfits the women wore…he understood for himself what he needed to be fixating his mind on. (Philippians 4:8)
I too am glad you’re here Patti…such an encourager!
This might be a great place to recommend reading or shows. I know, in the winter, (which comes fast in Wisconsin!) I do like to watch an hour at night. Recently I watched a live stage production of Carousel I loved — even though Rogers and Hammerstein think we get to heaven by good works. And I have found documentaries on the Reformers enlightening. The World and Everything in it has made some recommendations that have been good. I have some recommendations on my website — and I know some are controversial. Great book recommendations — both fiction and non-fiction are welcome too.
I have a list of books that I want to read, am currently reading, and then I check them off when I’m done! I am still finishing Henri Nouwen’s Return of the Prodigal Son. I re-read Frederick Buechner’s The Sacred Journey this summer, and I want to read his book called The Remarkable Ordinary. I want to read The Story of A Soul by St. Therese of Lisieux, and The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton. I would recommend Gentle and Lowly to anyone!
Thank you, Susan! I’ve read just three of those!
Another great inspirational book: Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus by Nabeel Qureshi. I could not put it down.
Dee and Sharon, I love being part of this wonderful group. You all are such amazing women. I learn so much for your perspectives on scripture and life!
Thank you for the great recommendations, Susan. I find that I can so easily have some little thing be a trigger to make my mind wander back to a past hurt or family issue that I cannot resolve. It is so important to stay Christ centered in our minds and hearts. What we feed our souls through books, movies and tv, and conversations is what can control us. It is so subtle and so “everywhere” in our world right now.
I love Gentle and Lowly too. I do love so many of the wholesome “classic” musicals. I love well written historical fiction. Kim Michele Richardson’s The Book Woman from Troublesome Creek. Giver of Stars by JoJo Moyes. Both of these fiction books are about the traveling librarians. I love Dee’s recommendation: Ordinary Grace by William Kent Krueger.
I cannot sing, but I sing in my head and I love the Charity Gayle songs; and In Christ Alone; Steve’s favorite: Be Thou My Vision; A Mighty Fortress is our God. I have so needed these hymns and the Psalms recently. So many I know are going through difficult health problems. I will go to the Gospel Coalition website too. Great idea Dee. I love the biographies of the Missionaries.
4. Justification is described in Romans 8:1-3. What has been paid for and how?
“Jesus filled up our bank account. Now we are to SPEND THE BANK ACCOUNT.” (We are not to live like the Beverly Hillbillies.)
5. Romans 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification? We must have both Justification and Sanctification. Justification is the starting point. The beginning of the new me. The whole new me. The Sanctification is the Growth in holiness. The ongoing process by which we are made right. It is the Transforming. The goal is not that we are just CHRIST Covered; the goal is that we are Christ Conformed. (reminds me of the priest in the film clip)
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13? So that, we are transformed from walking according to the flesh to walking according to the Sprit. Our minds are to be transformed from set them on the things of the flesh, to setting them on things of the Spirit. The mind set on the flesh is death; the mind set on the Spirt is life and peace.
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option? There are only two options: You are In Christ or you are Not In Christ. You. IF God is not occupying our hearts, it is a rejection of God. The 3rd option, as Mary said “the Dabbler” does not exist in scripture. What you feed your mind is your mind set. My mind set reveals who I am. You cannot serve two Master; you cannot walk in the Spirit and in the flesh.
*6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification? What is the great danger in reversing their order? What is the great danger in separating them? What role does faith play in each? Justification is the starting point. The beginning of a whole new me. It is the gift of Jesus who forgive sinners (not sin). Jesus paid the debt. SO THAT, I will grow is Holiness; and continue the process of growth. You cannot have the growth before you receive the gift.; yet you must have both. Dying unto sin and growing unto righteousness. We must have faith to accept the great gift that Jesus gave~ His life for my sins. I must have faith to battle the sin that my old self is tempted by.
Paige Brown’s Romans 8 study is so terrific! I’ve listened to it once taking notes and need to listen again. Thanks for the extra push in getting me to listen to her teaching. I missed her lesson on Romans 4-7 unfortunately but glad I didn’t let that stop me from listening to Romans 8. One thing I loved from Paige’s teaching: that, yes, the debt is paid in full; I am covered by Jesus’ death for me. BUT I need to understand deep in my soul that my account is full. I am RICH with Christ’s righteousness and I need to LIVE out of that richness! So incredible! My body may be weak and dying but my spirit can and should soar with delight, dancing with joy in Him!
My life has been so demanding lately that I find it almost impossible to comment here. Next week we are leaving to travel for three weeks. I don’t know how I am going to find the time or opportunity to listen to Paige but I am going to try my best! Please pray for us for health and travelling mercies from the Lord, especially as covid cases are soaring in our part of the world!
Diane–praying for His hedge of protection over you, that He will protect your health, and for safe and good travel! Wish you were coming to me! 😉
Diane you will be in my prayers for God’s protection around you this whole trip. Be safe and enjoy!
Diane, where are you going? My husband and I leave Sunday, driving to Maine and back over the next two weeks.
Prayers for you too Mary! I would love to get to do that with my husband–one day!
You know that if you come to the NE that you must come and visit me, right 😉?
Mary, if you are going to Maine you will be near me in southern NH! Would you be interested in a cup of coffee? I could meet you somewhere or you are welcome to stop by our house for a rest 😉. It would be so fun to meet up!
Laura, I would absolutely love to! Do you want to message me on Facebook with some contact information?
Will do!
Safe travels, Diane as well as God’s protection from the virus.
I’m glad it didn’t let you stop you too, Diane. And I will pray for protection and opportunities to listen!
Diane, prayers for safe travels and also to see and experience new things on your travels!
Diane, I will be praying for you as you travel the next few weeks. Praying for safety, good health and many blessings along the way. Mary, I will be praying for safe travels for you and your husband too. Praying that you both enjoy each and every day to the fullest. May the Lord keep you all safe and well. It is a beautiful time of year to drive to Maine, Mary! Praying for the Lord to protect us all from the virus.
Thanks, everyone, for your kind words and prayers. Mary, I live in New Brunswick, Canada, and I hope to get to Toronto, Ontario, Canada for a wedding and visits with friends and family. We are driving. It’s basically 17 hours of driving (with rest and food stops).
Diane, may the Lord bless you beyond what you are asking or imagining….
Thank you, Mary and everyone. My relationships with those we will be visiting are complex so I do appreciate your prayers and concern. Family and friends relationships need nurturing and risk taking and lots of prayer. It is especially difficult when children that we brought up with Christian mindset and who we thought were believers, now are living totally secularly without reference to God and, in fact, quite skeptical of God and critical of “Christians”. We need great wisdom and courage.
Oh, Diane. I understand and can relate to that. I will be praying for your time together and your conversations. Life is so complicated these days. So much friction in families. I will be praying for you and Mary daily.
Thanks, Patti Lynch. Families are definitely under attack. Some of my family for sure! Even since I wrote the above comment requesting prayer, my husband posted something on FB that made some of my family members angry. Yikes! Misunderstandings can so easily lead to angry words and families damaged or worse! He sent an apology but no response so far!
Prayers for you Diane and Mary,too,with your travels. My husband and I have been camping in our RV in central Vermont and spent several visits with friends and family.Yes, encouraging them in their walk, a true blessing for me. Some times I can work on the study and am veryinspired by Paige. Love the full bank account!
Sunday: Getting Started
1. What stood out to you from the above and why? – I am really enjoying this study so far. Paige is powerful on how she gets across the message of God’s Word. How sad for the secular person to think that they can prosper without God. That think their world is all there is to this life. I really liked the St. Patrick’s prayer, it put in perspective just where God needs to be in my life, everywhere.
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture. – I listened today while working and jotted some things down, but as usual she has so much information, I stopped writing and getting ready to listen again with hopefully no distractions. But what I did write down already that really hit home was when she said we can’t set our minds on Christ if don’t get in to His Word. It was a great visual for me on thinking about just where I’m spending my time and what I’m thinking about throughout the day. Is it God and His Word or frivolous stuff that won’t amount to anything that is useful.
3. Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not — there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16? – He says that he wishes they were cold or hot but because they are lukewarm he is going to vomit them out of his mouth. ICK what a picture that brings to mind. He doesn’t want us to be undecisive about our relationship with him, we are either all in or we are living on our own.
5. Romans 8:4-13.
A. What is sanctification? It is the life long process of becoming more like Jesus. It is the ‘godliness’ part of 1 Peter 1:3. It is spending the money He put in our bank account. I think I generally live afraid. Afraid to try, afraid to fail, afraid of people, of pain…. How can I learn to be godly without trying? Without finding out in falling down experiences where to walk and how to walk? I forget that my safety is not up to me. It is up to my Father.
B. How is it described in this passage? As a mindset, a mindset that has to find expression in action. The whole passage is full of things that are continuing to happen.
C. Thoughts on this being a picture of the normal Christian life. In the past, I’ve gotten the impression that the focus was on my success in doing certain ‘Christian’ things. Like spending all my time in church, staying away from ‘the world’, and restricting my behaviors so that others in Christian circles were pleased. But reading this today, what I see is a Daddy who wants to teach me how to navigate in the world, showing everyone what He is like and how much He loves them. To be so excited about Him and what He is doing in me that I am living out loud. Listening to Him as He steers my bicycle.
6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification? In reversing the order? In separating them? What role does faith play in each?
Justification is a legal term, referring to our legal standing before God because we accepted Jesus’s blood as the covering for our sinful nature. It is the wiping out of our debt. Sanctification is the filling up of our bank account. It is the process of living out the truth of our justification. If we confuse them, we think our actions fill up the bank and bring us good legal standing. It is flipping the order. If we try to separate them, we are just making our works or choices the definition rather than God having set all the terms and provided all the expense. Faith is essential to both. We have to believe Him, take Him at His word, both that my debt is gone and that I have an infinite bank account.
Mary, I love your musings “How can I learn to be godly without trying? Without finding out in falling down experiences where to walk and how to walk? I forget that my safety is not up to me. It is up to my Father.” I would love to just talk to you and “muse” together. You are so real and honest.
And I love it here! What a great company I am in! I can see all of us linking arms and walking each other “home”. And doing it virtually. Now, I am rabbit trailing again. GOL (giggle out loud)
Bing, I thought I had already replied to you and now see that I didn’t. If it never happens on this earth, I much look forward to the time in eternity when we can sit together and muse to our hearts content!!
Oh Mary — sounds like the Spirit is setting you free! I love this:
…reading this today, what I see is a Daddy who wants to teach me how to navigate in the world, showing everyone what He is like and how much He loves them.
Mary, Bing and Dee! I am loving all of this dialogue! How I fall down everyday! Wow! I can easily fall into the “afraid” mode too, Mary. Yes, I love agree with Bing! You are so real and honest!
Love this Bing!! And I love it here! What a great company I am in! I can see all of us linking arms and walking each other “home”. And doing it virtually. Now, I am rabbit trailing again. GOL (giggle out loud)
I love all rabbit trails…they always bring treasures!
Monday: Review and Overview
1. Justification is described in Romans 8:1-3. What has been paid for and how?
Justification is acknowledging that all of my sin and my debt (he has set us free from the law of sin and death) has been paid in full by Jesus Christ through his death therefore there is now no condemnation for me.
“Jesus filled up our bank account. Now we are to SPEND THE BANK ACCOUNT.” (We are not to live like the Beverly Hillbillies.)
5. Romans 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification?
Sanctification is to grow in righteousness and holiness.
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13?
Living according to the Spirit; setting my mind in the Spirit; life and peace govern me through the Spirit; life in Jesus’ righteousness; life is given in my mortal body through the Spirit.
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option?
You cannot be living in the flesh at the same time living in the Spirit.
*6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification? What is the great danger in reversing their order? What is the great danger in separating them? What role does faith play in each?
The danger in confusing justification and sanctification is that we either reverse the order or we leave sanctification out and say that justification is enough. Paige said we do not want to be just Christ covered. We need to be Christ conformed. If we reverse the order, we go back to righteousness by works which is impossible because no one is righteous except God and our righteousness is as filthy rags.
Faith is believing that we are saved through the death of Christ alone therefore we are justified. And no other way.
Faith is accepting the process of being made righteous and holy and trusting the Holy Spirit to work Christ’s life out in me.
Love what you put in capitals!
7. In Romans 8:5-8 we are told to do what, and why?
We are told to have our minds set on what the Spirit desires and not on what the sinful nature desires. Paul says it leads to life, and to pleasing God. It would be so much easier for me if I could keep remembering that God is not taking anything away from me; not holding out on me, but asking me to let Him bring good to me in His timing.
8. What is my default setting? What do I think about when my mind wanders?
My knee jerk is to say food, or what I need to get done. But if I look back in time, I used to habitually fantasize; make up stories starting from some detail in my life and then spinning it out to make myself the star. And I realize I haven’t done that in ages. A lot of times I hear God ask me, ‘what do you want?’ And my passionate response is that I want Him. I can say with Newton that while I am not where I want to be, praise God, I am not where I was!
9. The mark of the beast, what it is and how it relates to this passage of Romans.
Worn on the forehead, it is a mind mirroring the thoughts, attitudes and desires of the world. Thinking and valuing as the world does. On the hand, it is acting like the world; doing as the world, the flesh and the devil do.
10. What are you reading/watching; who is influencing you?
In the 45 years of our marriage, we have had only a few with TV reception, and during those few watched very little. I am grateful for that side benefit of not having the money to buy one when we first married. Over the years, I’ve gotten pickier about what I read and the movies I watch. Somewhere I have a quote from someone who talked about the ‘great god, entertainment’, and how believers used to correctly look down on it but gradually gave up and now embrace it. That convicts me that I still waste too much time and let too much evil in. There’s so many better things to do.
11. Paige said secular people can be nice, but there is a big difference between them and believers. What is it?
The difference is the goal and direction of their lives. Makes me think of Paul telling us not to be yoked together with unbelievers. Hitching ourselves up with anyone who doesn’t want Jesus first is asking to be pulled away from Him.
12. Glorifying God is the path that leads to joy. Dying to self, though initially painful, can lead to that which is better and more joyful. Share how you’ve experienced this.
The only way to have a resurrection is to first have a death. In the same way that I don’t want this frail and failing body to live forever and yet I want to live, I don’t want my sinful and harmful ways to live forever. I want them to die so that Jesus can resurrect in me that which is new and clean and good. I used to live with anger that was like the skin on my spirit. Always there under the clothes of my pretending to be someone else. God repeatedly asked me to not go there, not to lash out in anger, and to let it go and trust Him. I did make some little progress while biting my tongue. But He was gracious and hearing my pleas, healed me of it. For the week after that, I kept ‘feeling’ my spirit and being so excited. The anger was gone, just as I imagine it was like for lepers to have their disease gone. Not that I never get angry. I’ve had a few very regrettable episodes. But it is no longer an accurate description of me. And I want that same freedom from sin in other areas. The pain of change is way less than the joy of new life.
Now having reread that, why on earth don’t I always live it out???
1. What stood out to you from the above and why? Nothing can separate us from the Love of God in Christ Jesus and the movie clip. That is why God wants us to fight sin in our life and not succumb to it. Because it will hurt us and He loves us too much.
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture. Job #1 of the Holy Spirit is to pour the love of God into our hearts. We already have sin so that isn’t hte first job of the Holy Spirit.
3. Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not — there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16? That you are either cold or hot. If you are lukewarm you are not His.
Love this Rebecca — He wants us to fight sin cause it hurts us.
2. Share one thing that stood out to you from Paige’s lecture.
It’s very hard to share just one thing. I’m thinking of her discussion on the Holy Spirit. We say, “I don’t know; can He make any difference in me?” To which Paige provides this answer: “He can empty graves! Can He take someone like me and grow holiness in me? He can put beating hearts in dead bodies! Yes He can!” We do not understand the power of Who is living in us.
That being said, after taking about ten pages of notes, and it was all very, very good stuff, I felt….overwhelmed, like my brain was going to explode. I am stuffed full of information. But I also felt anxious! I wondered about those Roman believers who listened to this letter being read….did they understand all of it, every point that Paul was trying to make, and they didn’t have the benefit of all of scholars and church fathers who came later and expounded on this letter. And, there were some statements that felt a little bit legalistic to me. I understand that we must put sin to death, but her exhaustive list; for example, “Do I need to be spending this much money on my beauty, what I look like?” I understand that beauty can become an idol, an obsession. So, for example, I used to get my hair hi-lighted twice a year, but have decided I just don’t want to anymore. But any woman who has any kind of coloring service knows it’s expensive, unless you do it at home. Is that just serving to feed an idol of beauty, in the same way that if you spend money to get manicures and pedicures or massages and facials does? Should I feel guilty if I ever spend money for something like that? And I feel uncomfortable being “left alone with my own thoughts”….am I sinful if I’m googling about how to decorate an entryway table? Is my home an idol? Sure, there have been times when I have mindlessly scrolled and googled on my phone, which I know is not a productive use of my time. That part of her talk left me feeling like Mary Magdalene portrayed in The Chosen, when she cried to Jesus, “I can’t live up to it!”
3. Romans 8 shows you are either in Christ or not – there is no in-between. How does Jesus say the same in Revelation 3:15-16?
The “hot” would be in Christ, the “cold” would be outside of Christ. Jesus says He wishes you would be one or the other, but not lukewarm. He will spit the lukewarm out of His mouth….oh but He does not say that He will spit the “cold” out of His mouth. He is describing these believers’ deeds as being neither cold nor hot, but lukewarm. So is the lukewarm the one outside of Christ?
This is a difficult subject, too. Paige said that all these categories of carnal Christians, or Christians who are not spiritual, (and I would add the term backsliding Christians) are all imaginary, made-up categories that do not exist and are not supported by Scripture. I have heard a few sermons, however, even on Moody Radio by well-known pastors, talking about just such kinds of Christians. I have heard the term, “re-committing my life to Christ” after such a time of backsliding. I have heard it in people’s testimonies in church. I have heard people say about their children, “He or she isn’t walking with the Lord right now.” So is it possible to be in-Christ and to not be walking with Him? I just listened to the testimony of a young woman who talked about her faith, which she had early in her life, but when she went off to college, she moved further and further away from her family’s values and from God, and convictions she once had about sexual purity, she put aside. This went on for a few years, and she became increasingly distressed, and then she turned around and turned back to God and repented. So, was she not really in-Christ during those years of rebellion? I don’t think she would say that. This just leaves me with a lot of questions.
Yes — I understand the questions. I do believe in eternal security because I think the only way you could believe you could lose your salvation is if you did something to earn it – -and we know we didn’t. What we don’t know is if someone’s conversion was true – it seems hers may have been, but she was a prodigal, yet He didn’t let her go. But it is indeed mysterious.
Glad you are being so moved by Paige, Susan.
This subject has always eluded me as well Susan. Being what I believe to be a prodigal for a few years in my life, I look back and I believe God had a hold of me because I never was hostile toward Him. My life may of said otherwise but I don’t think I ever went to the place of just not caring. Yes, I lived the way of my flesh but because of the Holy Spirit within me…I was miserable! I knew deep down where I needed to be and I really don’t believe I wasn’t a Christian or lost my salvation (which I agree with Dee on). The interesting thing is in going through this time I wanted to be baptized but not until I was right with God. So, as you said, Paige probably wouldn’t agree with me😏
Susan, I have thought about these questions too. There are many mysteries with the prodigal ones. I pray that Jesus knows the hearts of those I worry about in my family. I continually pray for a hedge of protection from the evil one around my children and grandchildren. I pray for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in each of them. Of course, they have to desire that, we cannot do anything but pray. When words do not match the actions, it hurts my heart.
Tuesday: Fix Your Minds
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires, but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
7. Review Romans 8:5-8. What are we told to do and why?
Set your mind on things that the Spirit desires. It brings life and peace and pleases God.
*8. John Owen (17th century) said that “voluntary thoughts are the best measure and indication of the frame of our minds.” So what is the default setting of my mind—what comes to it most naturally when it is allowed to wander? Do I default to worldly thoughts or spiritual thoughts?
I find myself going to the default mode of worldly thought-world problems, my family’s issues, my personal needs. I have found the discipline of bringing Scripture to mind very helpful in correcting my thoughts. I am learning to ask the Holy Spirit to speak to me. The 31 days of praise by Ruth and Warren Myers have been helpful to me. And so do the following verses:
2 Corinthians 2:5 “ We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.”
Philippians 4:8 “Whatever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, and admirable-think on these things.”
9. The view our study in Revelation has been taking is that the pictures and numbers are symbolic rather than literal most of the time. For example, “the Mark of the Beast” or “666” that is put on men’s foreheads and hands represents not a literal number on a literal forehead and hand. Do you remember what they symbolize and how that relates to this passage in Romans?
The seal is God’s ownership of us, a guarantee for us of our access to heaven; will keep us safe from “giving way to the pressure of compromise or deny Christ… The seal is to be identified with the Holy Spirit.”
In Romans, we are identified by whether we walk in the Spirit or in the flesh.
10. Paige said we must fill up our minds and asked: “What are you reading? What are you watching? And who is an influencer in your life?
Great questions! I think I have shared this before from The Message on I Corinthians 10:23 “Looking at it one way, you could say, “Anything goes. Because of God’s immense generosity and grace, we don’t have to dissect and scrutinize every action to see if it will pass muster.” But what do we feed our minds? GIGO-Garbage in, garbage out.
4. Justification is described in Romans 8:1-3. What has been paid for and how?
Justification equals no condemnation. Sin has been paid for because God sent His Son, Jesus, in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. Paige said there are two aspects of Justification:
Forgiveness: sin has been paid for through Jesus because He received all of our condemnation.
Imputation: the full crediting of Jesus’ perfect righteousness to us.
Paige said if we had a zillion dollar debt, and Jesus paid it, the balance is now zero in our account. That does not mean we get to work to fill it up. That is not the gospel. Jesus imputes zillions of dollars of His righteousness into our account. So yes, we are to spend the bank account, not continue to live as paupers when in reality we live in a mansion of grace.
5. Romans 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification?
Sanctification is only possible for those who have the Spirit of Christ, and it is putting to death “the misdeeds of the body” (or sin) by the power of the Spirit.
It is having a mind set on what the Spirit desires, and Paige said it is the process by which we are made righteous. Not to be confused with justification, which is a declaration; sanctification is a process.
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13?
It is a process, then, of learning and growing in living according to the Spirit. (Paige said that the word translated “live” is not right, as in “Those who live in accordance with the Spirit.” She said the Greek word is “are”, so it would be “Those who are according to the Spirit”.) I guess it’s a process then of becoming who we really are or who we are created by God to be. It’s described as having a mind set on the spiritual, and it leads to life and peace and submission to God.
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option?
I liked what Paige said about our goal isn’t to be Christ-covered, but rather Christ-conformed. She said these verses simply describe what it looks like to be a Christian, and not a “super Christian”; just a Christian. This tells me that what is described here is attainable to all believers, because we all have the same Spirit and we all have Him to the same degree. Paige pointed that out – that there are no degrees of indwelling of the Spirit; there aren’t some people who have more of Him and some less. If this is the case, then we all should be living what is coined the victorious Christian life.
This passage doesn’t mention a third option; there are only two: you are according to the flesh or you are according to the Spirit. What other option would there be?
6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification? What is the great danger in reversing their order? What is the great danger in separating them? What role does faith play in each?
Confusing them: We must be clear that we are never saved by our sanctification. We are saved by the work of Christ alone. We must place our faith in Him alone and not in even the best, most unselfishly motivated righteous acts we may have ever done.
Reversing their order: Justification comes first and is how we are declared righteous. We will not be declared righteous if we become righteous enough. Sanctification does not lead to justification. Again, our faith is not in the process of sanctification for our salvation; it is in knowing our sin was paid for and we were declared righteous by God.
Separating them: You can never have one without the other. You cannot separate the legal work of Christ and the transforming work of Christ. Paige said that “Jesus comes with a blessing in both hands.” If you are justified, sanctification will follow. Jesus died for my sin and gave me His righteousness, therefore I can battle sin and grow in righteousness. If my faith is in my works, it is in the wrong place.
7. Review Romans 8:5-8. What are we told to do and why?
We are not to be as one who is according to the flesh, having a mind set on what the flesh wants. We are of the Spirit, so our minds are to be set on what the Spirit wants. We are to allow the Spirit to control our thoughts, our minds. We have the power, by the Spirit, to submit to God’s laws.
8. John Owen said that “voluntary thoughts are the best measure and indication of the frame of our minds.” So what is the default setting of my mind – what comes to it most naturally when it is allowed to wander? Do I default to worldly thoughts or spiritual thoughts?
Honestly, it’s both. I can be thinking about God, or something I read in a spiritual book, or a Bible verse, or a conversation with someone in which we talked about God, or praying for people as I go about my work, or just wondering about God and the spiritual life. And, my thoughts can be distracted and running to and fro with things I need to do, projects around the house, a person who has irritated me or said something that offended me, daydreaming.
9. The view our study in Revelation has been taking is that the pictures and numbers are symbolic rather than literal most of the time. For example, “the Mark of the Beast” or “666” that is put on men’s foreheads and hands represents not a literal number or a literal forehead and hand. Do you remember what they symbolize and how that relates to this passage in Romans?
The mark of the beast or 666 according to Dr. Campbell are not literal marks in the flesh of a person, but symbolic and signify ownership. Just like we are sealed and marked spiritually as owned, or belonging, to God. This passage in Romans talks about those who belong to God and those who do not. There is no outward mark on a person’s body to show this; the Spirit of God cannot be “seen” indwelling a person, and because Paige made the point that some who do not have the Spirit may be some of the nicest people we know, you can’t always “see” who does not have the Spirit, unless you really know them and understand what motivates them.
10. Paige said we must fill up our minds and asked, “What are you reading? What are you watching? And who is an influencer in your life?”
I posted above about some books I’m reading or want to read. I like to read books about spiritual formation. The book discussion group I’m in is currently reading Keller’s The Reason For God. I like to read my Bible. I tend to read more non-fiction than fiction, though there’s a lot of good fiction out there. I don’t watch a whole lot of TV, and sometimes if my husband is watching something that bothers me, I just go to another room. I have never read nor watched any of the Harry Potter books or films. I did watch the first two movies with my husband recently, and found there were a lot of examples in it of what happens when a person allows evil to take over (Voldemort) and a lot of other themes of light versus darkness, etc…
I don’t follow any influencers on social media, but we all have to be aware of what and who is influencing us. It can be a family member or a close friend, influencing us for good or for bad. It can be social media, television and movies, even the news. There are also spiritual influencers out there and we need to be careful who we trust.
11. Paige said that secular people can be nice, but there is a big difference, an antithetical way they walk in contrast to believers. What is it?
She said that when we speak of someone walking in the flesh (which is antithetical to one who is walking in the Spirit) we are not talking about criminality or gross immorality. The person may be really nice, but this describes a life lived with no reference to God. It is a complete absorption with self and with this world. It is walking on a path directed by self.
Believers walking in the Spirit are on a path directed by God, living according to His ways, such as speaking the truth, loving others more than yourself.
12. Paige quoted John Piper’s thought on Christian hedonism which is that glorifying God is the path that leads to joy. Dying to self, though initially painful, can actually lead to better relationships, more joy. Share how you have experienced this.
Right away I’m thinking of how I just spent last weekend at a spiritual retreat, and then I came home to – the same frustrations and unmet expectations in relationships. And, I reacted in the same way that I always do. I was lamenting, “Oh, if only I could just stay at the retreat house, I’d be more spiritual!” And then I stopped myself and thought, “I didn’t leave Jesus back there…for heaven’s sake, the theme of the weekend was abiding in Christ….He is with me wherever I am!” So, I prayed to God that I so want to be done with my old ways of reacting to disappointments and unmet needs/expectations; I want to be different, I want to let all that stuff go! And I can “see” that if I do, with His help, joy is just around the corner for me. But yes, it’s going to be painful to let go of my dependence and expectations on others to meet my needs, and my resentment, jealousies, and irritation when they fail, and feeling sorry for myself. But I have the desire for the desire to do it!
I like what you wrote about influencers — not necessarily famous people but family members — what we really admire tells so much about our own hearts.
I really love your answers, Susan! You are so honest and I can relate to so many of your thoughts! This is so true: you can’t always “see” who does not have the Spirit, unless you really know them and understand what motivates them. Love what you said about coming back to “reality” after a retreat. So much truth!
Monday
4. Justification is described in Romans 8:1-3. What has been paid for and how?
The debt of all sinners. The fullness of forgiveness and the crediting of Jesus’s perfect righteousness to us. He took upon Himself the sins of the world when He died on the cross, a payment the law could not satisfy, only the blood of Jesus.
5. Romans 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification? It’s the purpose of justification, a process, a growing up in righteousness and holiness. An act – ongoing work of God’s grace – dying to sin and living unto righteousness.
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13? It is a life that is controlled by the Spirit and not our sinful nature. Our sinful nature is hostile toward God and we cannot serve two masters at one time. “It is not black; it is not at enmity, but enmity itself; it is not corrupt , but corruption; it is not rebellious, it is rebellion; it is not wicked, it is wickedness itself. The heart, though it be deceitful, is positively deceit, it is the distillation, the quintessence of all that are vile; it is not envious against God, it is envy; if is not at enmity it is actual enmity.” ~ Spurgeon Paige…In Christ is the only place we are sanctified, not a matter of location but occupation. We’re not in the flesh because we have the Spirit of Christ…He occupies us.
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option? It makes perfect sense. We can only live the Christian life if the Spirit dwells within us otherwise we’re in the flesh and hostile toward God…they can’t go hand in hand.
*6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification?
They are 2 different things. Justification is Jesus coming one time (indwelling us) sanctification is a process.
What is the great danger in reversing their order?
The danger is thinking we can become righteous without being in Christ.
What is the great danger in separating them?
We can’t separate the legal work of Christ and the transforming work of Christ.
What role does faith play in each?
Justification – that we know, know, know that Jesus Christ laid His life down for us, rose from the dead and lives within us.
Sanctification – that we know, know, know that the work Christ started in us, He will bring to completion.
Like your definition of sanctification!
Sharon, what a great way to think of sanctification, as the purpose of justification!
Tuesday
7. Review Romans 8:5-8. What are we told to do and why?
We are told to be controlled by the Spirit…so we will think of things that please the Spirit, and our mind leads to life and peace.
*8. John Owen (17th century) said that “voluntary thoughts are the best measure and indication of the frame of our minds.” So what is the default setting of my mind—what comes to it most naturally when it is allowed to wander? Do I default to worldly thoughts or spiritual thoughts?
I would love to say that I always have spiritual thoughts but my mind bounces all over the place. I wonder what kind of person does have spiritual thoughts all the time and what is their vocation?
9. The view our study in Revelation has been taking is that the pictures and numbers are symbolic rather than literal most of the time. For example, “the Mark of the Beast” or “666” that is put on men’s foreheads and hands represents not a literal number on a literal forehead and hand. Do you remember what they symbolize and how that relates to this passage in Romans?
666 is the number of man, a mark which symbolizes he belongs to Satan. The demonic counterfeit of the Trinity, dragon, beast and false prophet. The opposite of that is the Trinity…Father, Son and Spirit which indwells those who are truly His, which is spoken of in Revelation 7.
10. Paige said we must fill up our minds and asked: “What are your reading? What are you watching? And who is an influencer in your life?
I usually read about 4 books at a time, but they are Christian related.
What I’m watching is probably too much news and as I stated above not things I need to be at times.
My influencer is way too much time spent on Facebook and Instagram 🥴
7. Review Romans 8:5-8. What are we told to do and why? I answered this and my answers disappeared! We are to set our minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind set on the flesh is death, and hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so. If your mind is set on the flesh you cannot please God. There are so many distractions in this life that cause our minds to wander aimlessly. I love Lizzy’s idea of playing hymns before going to sleep.
*8. John Owen (17th century) said that “voluntary thoughts are the best measure and indication of the frame of our minds.” So what is the default setting of my mind—what comes to it most naturally when it is allowed to wander? Do I default to worldly thoughts or spiritual thoughts? My goal is dwell on the things of the Spirit; good and wholesome things. Julie mentioned last week how her mind would turn toward something that was bothering her ~ I can so relate to that. It is truly a struggle to keep our mind on the right track. I love that Paige said “Everyone who is Justified has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit I feed is the spirit that becomes strongest in my heart and mind. I also love that she said “be killing your sin or it will be killing you. Sin grows in the dark like gremlins. Pull it out in the light and see it for what it is.” This was priceless! I do not want my idols to be my security…I do want to pull the idols out by the roots like weeds.”
9. The view our study in Revelation has been taking is that the pictures and numbers are symbolic rather than literal most of the time. For example, “the Mark of the Beast” or “666” that is put on men’s foreheads and hands represents not a literal number on a literal forehead and hand. Do you remember what they symbolize and how that relates to this passage in Romans? Satan’s followers bear his mark; The Lamb’s followers bear the Lamb’s mark or Name.
10. Paige said we must fill up our minds and asked: “What are your reading? What are you watching? And who is an influencer in your life? I want the Lord and the Holy Spirit to be the influencers in my life. We used to go to movies that we considered good acting, wholesome stories, mysteries…..we have not been to a movie for a very long time. We used to attend plays and musicals, but in recent years we have not enjoyed as many (aside from all of the Covid closures) due to subject matter that was not wholesome. We read more and watch the few good films that we can find or we buy recommended DVDs. I love The Chosen and I am so thankful the series!!! I do love to read!!
11. Paige said that secular people can be nice, but there is a big difference, an antithetical way they walk in contrast to believers. What is it? You are either in Christ or not in Christ. The Holy Spirit dwells within us if we are in Christ. We have a new nature. We are walking with the Spirit and setting our minds on the things of God; God’s law. I love that Paige said: You cannot set you mind on God’s Word if your mind is not filled with God’s Word. Those who are not in Christ know, but that cannot submit; because you cannot serve two Masters. If you walk in the flesh you reject the only source; God’s path and boundaries are God’s law, set by God. Love others more than self.
12. Paige quoted John Piper’s though on “Christian hedonism” which is that glorifying God is the path that leads to joy. Dying to self, though initially painful, can actually lead to better relationships, more joy — share how you have experienced this. I love the John Piper quote! So powerful. Like Susan, I have taken pages of notes…and I am re-listening to her talk! I try very hard to let go of things my family members have done or said to me. I try to forgive things when I do not get an apology. It is not about me. One of my children was critical because I was a peacemaker….If I pray and concentrate on the joys in my life and not the sorrows….the gains and not the losses….and the heavenly treasures not the earthly treasures, it helps me to stay in the right Spirit.
When I see you in Seattle next, we must discuss what we liked and didn’t about The Chosen!
I will love that!!
4. Justification is described in Romans 8:1-3. What has been paid for and how?
Our sin has been paid by Jesus. Cha-ching!
5. Romans 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification?
It’s the blessing given to us by God; the protection of the Holy Spirit. It is righteousness because we have received Jesus and have the Spirit within us. We are believers so we receive what Christ has and that includes eternal life.
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13?
It tells us what’s like to be a Christian. We try to dump our sinful nature and instead follow the Holy Spirit.
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option?
You are either a Christian or you are not. There is no in between. You can’t be “kind of” pregnant. You can’t be sinning and bound to Christ at the same time.
*6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification?
Justification leads to sanctification. They are from the same source.
What is the great danger in reversing their order?
Everything comes from our security in Christ.
What is the great danger in separating them?
We need both. We need the payment of the debt from Jesus and then I can become holy (sanctified).
What role does faith play in each?
We have to believe that we have received all that Jesus has; it is the beginning. We then need to have faith that we are able to battle sin as we are becoming righteous.
I am not feeling like I get these ideas in a solid way. I am sort of getting it.
I started calling my friend Ron the name Nathaniel because there is no guile in him. I wonder what the female equivalent of Nathaniel is — that’s what I want to call you, Laura!
Haha! I looked it up…Nathania 😉. I like it!
Okay — Nathania it is.
Monday: Review and Overview
4. Justification is described in Romans 8:1-3. What has been paid for and how? – My sin was paid for by Jesus when he died on the cross in my place.
“Jesus filled up our bank account. Now we are to SPEND THE BANK ACCOUNT.” (We are not to live like the Beverly Hillbillies.) – I loved this when she talked about it. I was trying to think what I ran home from school to watch. LOL
5. Romans 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification? – Sanctification is the process we go through to make us righteous
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13? – We have to live according to the Spirit and when we do, we have Christ in us. Our mortal bodies will be raised to life because of living according to the Spirit. If we live according to the flesh we are not in Christ and He is not in us. When we live as the Spirit lives in us our minds will be renewed to live according to God’s laws.
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option? – I think we have been given a great amount of grace, but we have to do our part in living according to the Spirit if we don’t we can’t have Christ in us since he cannot dwell where sin continues to happen. There is no in-between because we are either in Christ and He is in us or we aren’t. God, Jesus, The Spirit cannot live among sin so we have to be all in or we will die.
*6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification? What is the great danger in reversing their order? What is the great danger in separating them? What role does faith play in each? – When justification and sanctification are mixed up we can tend to think we are saved by our works, but justification was freely given to us the minute Jesus took our spot on the cross. Once we have that, we have to start to change and live according to the laws of God, which I think is the process of sanctification that makes us righteous. Paige said they cannot be separated, we can’t have one without the other. Justification is the beginning of a new me and sanctification helps me get more righteous and to the end goal of living like Christ. Not sure if I got this right or not yet.
Hey Sisters — how would you respond to Julie’s answer 6 — might help Laura too, as she says she is not quite getting it. Julie is awfully close but not quite.
I will take a stab at it.
Justification (which has to come first)is the fullness of His forgiveness and imputing or crediting us with His righteousness which isn’t just a credit but an account that never empties out. Justification is what it means to be “in Christ.” That must come before sanctification, which is why He justified us…so by having Christ in us/the power of the Spirit, we can continue in the ongoing act of the work of God’s grace – dying to self and living unto righteousness. The danger in reversing the two is thinking we can become righteous on our own when justification does that.
Sharon, Lizzy and Dee~ I love all of your responses. I am going to save them. You each a gift with your words. I cannot always put my thoughts into words when talking about my faith.
I’m being simple here but I think* the key is that both justification and sanctification are gifts. Justification makes us justified before our Holy God, and sanctification is the ongoing work of the Spirit to make us like Christ. Our only part is faith. And the danger in reversal, as Sharon said, is that we can create a works-based righteousness if we believe our sanctification makes us justified. God declares us justified because Christ’s righteousness is IMPUTED to us. Then by the Spirit in us, we are made like Him. Thank You Lord!!!
Sharon and Lizzy — thanks! Both of you made vital points. Justification must come first and the key ingredient in both is faith, not trying to obey the law. When I choose to give sacrificially, turn away from junk food, or share the gospel — there must be faith that God will empower and meet me. As Paige said, “Spend the bank account – your debt is not just paid, your account is full!”
Tuesday
11. Paige said that secular people can be nice, but there is a big difference, an antithetical way they walk in contrast to believers. What is it?
They walk with a mindset on things of the flesh, dominated on self and apart from Christ. Godlessness.
12. Paige quoted John Piper’s thought on “Christian hedonism” which is that glorifying God is the path that leads to joy. Dying to self, though initially painful, can actually lead to better relationships, more joy — share how you have experienced?
There was a ministry at church that I really felt the Lord calling me to do and I kept telling Him no (for 2 months), in hopes that someone more qualified would step up. When I finally obeyed and volunteered there was a peace and joy that overcame me. It always amazes me how disobedience can steal your joy and have such a ripple effect. I know I’m not qualified but it’s in missions and I’m trusting God to give me the grace and bring glory to Him!
Wednesday
13. Read Romans 8:9-11 and share what you learn about the Spirit.
Controlled by the Spirit if we have the Spirit of God living in us.
Those who don’t have the Spirit do not belong to Him at all.
The Spirit gives life because we’ve been made right with God.
The Spirit of God raised Jesus from the dead and lives in us.
Just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, He’ll give life to our mortal bodies by the same Spirit living in us.
*14. What does it mean for us that the Spirit “dwells” within us? That He does not drop by, or stop in, or come and go?That we are His temple? That we are not our own? Is that comforting? Convicting? Disconcerting? Is this a source of security or insecurity for us?
He has permanently moved in, we are His homestead, can’t be removed. He determines our delight and direction.
I find this very comforting. It gives me a seal of security that can’t be removed.
15. Ben Franklin and Tolstoy listed virtues to aspire to, whereas Saint Patrick prayed for Christ to be all around him through the day. Which is more effective and why?
The St. Patrick’s prayer because it isn’t just a virtue to aspire. It isn’t my work but the work of Christ.
16. Read Romans 8:11-17.
A. According to verse 11, what was the Spirit able to do and what should this mean for us? Raise Jesus from the dead. Give life in our mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in us.
B. List some of the promises give to those who live by the Spirit in verses 12-17. We have no obligation to do what our sinful nature urges us to do. Through the power of the Spirit, if we put to death the deeds of our sinful nature, we’ll live. We’re children of God if led by the Spirit. We’ve received God’s Spirit not the spirit of a fearful slave when He adopted us. We can call Him Abba Father. His Spirit joins with ours to affirm that we are God’s children.
17. Describe how to parent unidolatrously, to eat unidolatrously, to play sports unidolatrously, to use the gifts God has given you unidolatrously. (Choose what is most relevant to you.)
Being a grandparent without idolatry. Giving them to the Lord in all aspects of their lives and realize I can love them but they do not replace Jesus on the throne of my life. I will tell you that having lost a child that is not easy but I have to trust and place them into His hands…even my own children, daily!
Loved your answer to 17.
Sharon, I guess your answer to 17 also means how I view myself as a grandparent. It opened my eyes to why I came home from time with my kids and felt beat up. I wanted them to see me in a better light. For the grands to give me warm fuzzies. Before reading your answer, I didn’t think there was idolatry there. But there is. O Lord, please move me completely out of that! And thank You for my sister for helping me see it.
Oh Mary, I so appreciate your tender heart and your statement “for them to give me warm fuzzies” is so much my mindset and I didn’t see that before listening to Paige…ugh! May my mindset be “My Jesus I love Thee first and foremost.
What a simple but powerful view of being a parent and a grandparent! Thank you Sharon! I love this. It is such a good reminder to daily put Jesus on the throne of my life. I want to trust Him more. I just read this by Dr. Tony Evans: “When you know who is at the controls, you have peace even in the middle of life’s storms. ” He Is Our Savior. He is in Control. He listens. He has His timing. They are His children….these are reminders to me from me.
Thursday
18. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What are we told to do and why?
Set our sights on things above, where Christ is. Not on things of this earth. Put to death sinful, earthly things lurking within you…
We’ve died to this life, and our real life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life is revealed to the whole world, we’ll share in all His glory.
*19. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What is the order of the commands in this passage? Where is the THEREFORE? Why must that always be the order in sanctification? Does our security in God’s love lead to the mortification of sin, or follow the mortification of sin?
Therefore is at the beginning…If you have been raised with Christ…
Justification always comes before sanctification as we must be In Christ.
Our security in His love leads to the mortification of sin. Romans 5:5…The first job of the Holy Spirit is to pour the love of God into our hearts, not convict us of sin.
20. In Revelation 10, John is told to “eat the scroll” and it will make his stomach bitter, but in his mouth will be sweet as honey.” How could this riddle relate to the normal Christian life?
God’s Word is sweet like honey but it is sharper than an two edged sword, piercing to the heart and should put us at odds with the world.
The faith that unites us to Christ disunites us from His competitors
The faith that makes peace with God makes war with our sin
If you are not at odds with sin then you’re not at home with Jesus.
Not because of being at odds with sin makes you at home with Jesus
But because being at home with Jesus makes you at odds with sin. ~ John Piper
7. Review Romans 8:5-8. What are we told to do and why?
We are told to focus on the Spirit since it lives within believers. We are told to not focus on our sin. Letting your sinful nature control you leads to death.
*8. John Owen (17th century) said that “voluntary thoughts are the best measure and indication of the frame of our minds.” So what is the default setting of my mind—what comes to it most naturally when it is allowed to wander?
This is a good question; I don’t really know the answer but I think my thoughts probably go to things of the day; kids, dinner, schedule after school, etc.
Do I default to worldly thoughts or spiritual thoughts?
Probably worldly thoughts first, however since I study the Bible in many different ways (not just this blog) I do think about time that I need to fit it in during my day. I usually have these spiritual thoughts throughout the day because it’s the only way I can get it all in!!
9. The view our study in Revelation has been taking is that the pictures and numbers are symbolic rather than literal most of the time. For example, “the Mark of the Beast” or “666” that is put on men’s foreheads and hands represents not a literal number on a literal forehead and hand. Do you remember what they symbolize and how that relates to this passage in Romans?
The mark of the beast refers to Satan’s marking of us for him, I think? Well, Romans is guiding us to how a Christian should live, so that is the opposite of evil. We have to choose, satan or God? There is no in-between. You can’t “kind of” be a Christian!
10. Paige said we must fill up our minds and asked: “What are your reading? What are you watching? And who is an influencer in your life?
Another good question! I read the Bible, textbooks, science articles, and political news. I read children’s stories too 🤷🏻♀️. I don’t really watch TV; we don’t have cable and NOTHING interests me! I gave up Netflix due to their taking a political stand a couple of years back. If I watch anything it would be something not science! Like the documentary on John Adams or The Chosen (love, love, love The Chosen!!)
My Influencers? God, my deceased mother, my husband, Dee (!), sisters here on the blog, my sister, my pastor, my 2 best friends. I will say though, I am influenced by the news also.
11. Paige said that secular people can be nice, but there is a big difference, an antithetical way they walk in contrast to believers. What is it?
They walk in accordance to the flesh. They are self-absorbed. They are not loving others more than themselves.
12. Paige quoted John Piper’s though on “Christian hedonism” which is that glorifying God is the path that leads to joy. Dying to self, though initially painful, can actually lead to better relationships, more joy — share how you have experienced this.
It is SO true!! When I have given up a bad habit, I have more joy in my life. I have more time on my hands to give to others because I am not self focused.
I remember those years with little ones and how focused you had to be on them – -I so admire you for doing what you are doing. I admit I love the freedom of not being continually interrupted so I can think!
13. Romans 8:9-11. What do you learn about the Holy Spirit?
He gives life, He is the mark of our believing or being in Jesus, and it says He is in control.
14. The Holy Spirit dwells in us. He is not just stopping by. We are not our own. Is this comforting? Convicting?
My thoughts went first to the little booklet from years past, My Heart, Christ’s Home. In it, Jesus is making Himself more and more at home in the believer. I want Him to be more and more in control of me. I just wish He were more aggressive about it, so that I’d make faster progress.
15. Which is more effective, aspiring to virtues or praying for Jesus to surround me all day?
Without a doubt, looking to and leaning on Jesus. When I’ve tried the self route, I can only keep it up a short time. Then I’m exhausted, terribly discouraged, and beaten not only for the moment, but for days or even weeks.
16. Romans 8:11-17. A. In verse 11, what was the Spirit able to do, and what does it mean for us?
He raised Jesus from the dead. It means He is not limited in me. Except maybe by me?? When I don’t listen, or obey? Is this my current emotional state talking, or is it real that I’m not experiencing everything of God that I should be?
17. Describe how to live some aspect of your life unidolatrously.
I am much struggling in my mind with this today. Through Paige’s messages I am aware as never before that all the other labels I can put on idols in my life are only covers for the truth that I want to be front and center. I am the idol. Until I read Sharon’s post about grand parenting today, I would have denied that was an issue. My grands are not idols for me. I missed the fact that being what I considered to be good and effective in my role as Grammy is an idol for me. I don’t know yet how to do this right. Have been praying off and on all day on it.
Mary — I so appreciated your vulnerability. If you read my interchange with Laura, you may be another Nathania (feminine of Nathaniel!)
Dee, you are so sweet, but I can’t claim to be without guile. There is way more deception that goes on in me than I want, and I suspect, more than I know.
Seems the more we grow the more light He shines in our cellars!
4. Justification is described in Romans 8:1-3. What has been paid for and how? Sin and death. God sent His Son to us in our likeness to take on our condemnation for sin wrapping us in His righteousness so that we can enter through the ripped curtain into the Holies of Holies to be with God. All we do is choose to receive this gift.
“Jesus filled up our bank account. Now we are to SPEND THE BANK ACCOUNT.” (We are not to live like the Beverly Hillbillies.) – I LOVE THIS. lol regarding beverly hillbillies but a great metaphor.
5. Romans 8:4 begins with “in order that” and then leads to a description in verses 4 through 13 of sanctification. Read it.
A. What is sanctification? To grow in holiness. To be set apart from the world. We are sanctified by Truth-Being obedient to His Word but that is only possible by Him living in us.
B. How do you see it described in Romans 8:4-13? ( as putting our sin to death) Only by the Holy Spirit living in us can we put to death our fleshly sin. If we are of the flesh and not of Christ we are unable to put our sin to death.
C. What thoughts do you have on this being a description of the normal Christian life? Why can’t there be an in-between 3rd option? I liked how Paige said we can stumble and fall on the path but we stay on the path as opposed to not being on the path at all. So we are either believers on the path being transformed when we stumble and fall or we aren’t believers being off the path with no evidence of transformation-there is no in-between.
*6. What is the great danger in confusing justification and sanctification? What is the great danger in reversing their order? What is the great danger in separating them? What role does faith play in each?
I love these questions! Okay, so if we confuse Justification and sanctification then we will think are sins are forgiven so I am good so we don’t really have to put our fleshly sin to death. We need to walk in faith that we are justified and because of that we are free from the weight of sin-we have Him in us to enable us to put sin to death.
If we reverse their order then we believe good works, or transforming myself into a good person will please God and therefore I will eventually be justified. We will lack faith in Jesus and literally be rejecting what He did to set us free.
We can’t separate them because we can’t be sanctified if we aren’t resting in our Justification by Jesus Christ. Justification is the groundwork in order for us to become more and more like Jesus which is the goal.
Great answers, Rebecca.
Rebecca, I really love these reminders in 5…we need to grow in holiness, to be set apart from the world, be obedient to His Word…Only by the Holy Spirit living in us can we put to death our fleshly sin. If we are of the flesh and not of Christ we are unable to put our sin to death. So we are either believers on the path being transformed when we stumble and fall or we aren’t believers being off the path with no evidence of transformation-there is no in-between. It sounds so much easier than it sometimes is!
Patti, No doubt! Paige didn’t say how often we stumble on the path. (a smile inserted here)
Wednesday: Occupation of the Heart and Mortification of Our Flesh
13. Read Romans 8:9-11 and share what you learn about the Spirit.
I am no longer in the realm of the flesh but in the realm of the Spirit who lives in me.
The Spirit of life lives in me because of righteousness (through Christ) God’s spirit is in me who raised Jesu from the dead, God will also give life to my mortal body because He lives in me.
*14. What does it mean for us that the Spirit “dwells” within us? That He does not drop by, or stop in, or come and go? That we are His temple? That we are not our own? Is that comforting? Convicting? Disconcerting? Is this a source of security or insecurity for us?
He is homesteading in us. The Spirit is constantly in me. I am His temple. He owns me now therefore I can have His rule in my life.
15. Ben Franklin and Tolstoy listed virtues to aspire to, whereas Saint Patrick prayed for Christ to be all around him through the day. Which is more effective and why?
I missed writing down the virtues that BF and T wrote about. But I kind of remembered that what they emphasized was more what I can do on my own. St. Patrick’s shows his dependence on Christ, and this is far better.
16. Read Romans 8:11-17.
A. According to verse 11, what was the Spirit able to do and what should this mean for us?
The Spirit gives life to our mortal bodies that means that He will continually renew me daily as sin is put to death. Since sin in my mortal body is put to death, the Spirit then lives in me to do the process of sanctification.
B. List some of the promises given to those who live by the Spirit in verses 12-17.
He gives us the power to live by the Spirit.
He reminds us that we are children of God.
He reminds us of our adoptions as sons.
He testifies with our spirits that we are God’s children.
17. Describe how to parent unidolatrously, to eat unidolatrously, to play sports unidolatrously, to use the gifts God has given you unidolatrously. (Choose what is most relevant to you.)
To parent unidolatrously is not to see my daughter as the ultimate source of my comfort and significance. To have an open hand on however God wants to work in her life, fully confident that “He who has started a good work in (my daughter) will complete it till the day of Christ.” Philippians 1:6
For me to trust God to have His way in my daughter’s life and not my way. To speak the name of Jesus over my daughter’s life.
18. Colossians 3:1-5. What are we told to do, and why?
We are told to move our focus from here; by which I mean myself, my circumstances, the world around me, and put it there; meaning on Jesus and every spiritual truth in Him. The why is because we no longer belong to this world so we need to focus on the world we do belong to, which is the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.
19. What is the order of the commands here? Where is the therefore? Why must that always be the order in sanctification? Does our security in God’s love lead to mortification of sin or follow it?
The order is recognizing our position in Jesus, and only then going after our sin. The therefore is right at the start of listing some of the sins that need to die. It has to be in that order because we can’t kill sin in our own power – that is the exact reason we needed a Savior. Yes, definitely, our security in Christ leads to us working at killing sin. Or at least it should. But if I had to kill my sin in order to be secure, it would never happen. I’d never kill any sin and I’d never be secure.
20. The normal Christian life is all about tasting the sweetness of the Lord. Experiencing His presence, love, mercy, and forgiveness for us. And then comes the digesting of those truths, the outworking of our salvation. That is where we do battle with our sin. The killing of it is a hard and bitter thing. It is necessary and even desirable, but not pleasant or sweet.
I just caught myself in a time of thought and realized it was about the Bible! Hahaha! Yay!
Awesome 😊
🙂
Last night I dreamt about the doctrine of election. Do dreams count? 🙂
What a doctrine to dream about…I’d definitely say that counts!!
🙂 I find that my dreams are often an attempt to solve problems but they don’t really help me — do you find that. We are discussing election versus free will tomorrow in our home church and our leader’s team has different views, so I am concerned — esp if my unsaved sister comes — so it was a crazy dream that didn’t help! 🙂
13. Read Romans 8:9-11 and share what you learn about the Spirit.
The Spirit controls us if we have the Spirit of God within us. The Spirit gives us life because we are made right with God. The Spirit lives within us.
*14. What does it mean for us that the Spirit “dwells” within us? That He does not drop by, or stop in, or come and go? That we are His temple? That we are not our own? Is that comforting? Convicting? Disconcerting? Is this a source of security or insecurity for us?
I liked this part of her discussion! It’s where she drew the picture of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. She connected each one back and forth with many arrows. It was sweet! So, if they are all connected and we are also living in Christ, then we too have all the connections. It is comforting to me! I’m protected from every direction.
I liked that diagram too!
Thursday: The Expulsive Power of a New Affection
18. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What are we told to do and why?
*19. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What is the order of the commands in this passage? Where is the THEREFORE? Why must that always be the order in sanctification? Does our security in God’s love lead to the mortification of sin, or follow the mortification of sin?
You have been raised with Christ (this is now your condition)
Set your minds on things above
Your life is hidden with Christ in God…Christ is your life.
“Therefore” is after all these truths mentioned above.
Our security in God leads to the mortification of sin. BECAUSE I have been raised with Christ, my life is hidden in Him, His life is my life (Holy Spirit) then I can put to death whatever belongs to my earthly nature.
I now am married to Christ, (I love her example of her friend not having success in his fight against addiction but was later changed because he got married!) therefore, I have a new affection (Him) instead of the old lover (the enemy and his wiles, me).
20. In Revelation 10, John is told to “eat the scroll” and it will make his stomach bitter, but in his mouth will be sweet as honey.” How could this riddle relate to the normal Christian life?
The normal Christian life is a choice-making life. “Choose you this day whom you will serve.” The flesh clamors for what is of the natural man. The process of putting sin in my life to death is “bitter” but the joy of experiencing Him and his forgiveness and love is sweet. And the surety of the Holy Spirit living in me should be the impetus to do what is “true, right, noble, pure, admirable, and excellent”.
Friday:
21. What is your take-away this week and why?
The Holy Spirit indwells/occupies my heart-fully, not in installments or degrees but FULL. And NOW. And ALWAYS. He is homesteading-oh, what truth!
We have been given the fullness of the love of God, the fullness of the work of Christ, and the fullness of the presence of the Spirit all at the same time. Hallelujah!
All I can do now is praise Him for the truth that is revealed in Romans 8. I am copying this praise prayer from Ruth and Warren Myers’s book, 31 days of Praise.
“I exult before you because you are eternal and never changing in your truth (There is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus), in your attributes, and in your attitude toward me and all your loved ones. I am so glad that your persistent tenderness binds my heart to you forever…that you who began a good work in me will carry it completion until the day of Christ Jesus…To you who are able to keep us from falling and to present before your glorious presence without fault and with great joy -to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power, and authority through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore, Amen!”
I love this quote, Bing. So thankful that I am His forever. So thankful for His persistent tenderness binds my heart to His forever.
From Bing: He is homesteading-oh, what truth!
7. Review Romans 8:5-8. What are we told to do and why? Live in accordance with the Spirit so that we have our minds set on what the Spirit desires.
*8. John Owen (17th century) said that “voluntary thoughts are the best measure and indication of the frame of our minds.” So what is the default setting of my mind—what comes to it most naturally when it is allowed to wander? Do I default to worldly thoughts or spiritual thoughts? I would say I do both but hope to default more and more to spiritual thoughts.
10. Paige said we must fill up our minds and asked: “What are your reading? What are you watching? And who is an influencer in your life? This really convicted me! My husband and I have found something we like doing at night when we are able and that is watching a movie or episodes of a season on prime, netflix or hulu. Last night we watched Season 3 of The Man in The High Castle and had to stop watching last night because of the same sex scenes. I like to watch crime investigation documentaries and that can get sketchy. Dee is an influencer in my life of what Holy Spirit empowered transformation looks like!
11. Paige said that secular people can be nice, but there is a big difference, an antithetical way they walk in contrast to believers. What is it? Trying to make themselves better in their own strength, but human effort will come up short. What will they do when they come up short? Who will they run to for the power to hold on when life gets hard? We need God’s power in us, wrapped around us and carrying us! It is an everlasting foundation! Believers walk in this.
12. Paige quoted John Piper’s though on “Christian hedonism” which is that glorifying God is the path that leads to joy. Dying to self, though initially painful, can actually lead to better relationships, more joy — share how you have experienced this. Oh my I’ve had to die lately to a seed of resentment building up in my heart for I am better emotionally and am able to think more clearly leading to the truth of how I’ve been treated all these years (even growing up) and put my head in the sand. So instead of letting the resentment grow for this person (I really was angry inside for a few days last week), I gave it to God and asked Him to help me to pull that seed out before it grows.
Rebecca, I like how you say Dee is an “influencer” in your life! (She’s a good one, too). It’s hard to deal with seeds of resentment; I can hold on to resentment in my heart, too. I love how you are giving it to God so that He can pull that seed out before it grows.
I’m so praying God gives you wisdom with this person, dear Rebecca.
21. Just wanted to share some of the other things that particularly stood out to me from Paige’s teaching.
The goal is not to just to be covered by Jesus but to be conformed to Him.
We have two natures. The one we were born with and the one we got at our new birth. The strength of these two natures or mindsets is the same. The difference is in what each nature is focused on.
The things we fill our minds with are not merely time consuming, they can be mind consuming. Which direction is your mind going – toward God or away from Him?
We will struggle with sin our whole lives, but the difference is falling down on on the path as opposed to not being on the path at all.
Jesus is making us His own, homesteading in us. Which made me think about the rules that went with homesteading. You didn’t just live on the land, you had to be improving it.
Jesus gives you the money to buy Him gifts, just like we do with our kids.
Mary, I really liked the “homesteading” metaphor, too! And yes, you just didn’t live on the land, you were making improvements to it!
Mary, my husband and I watch a show about homesteading and what you said about “improving “ is so true (will watch the show differently now)…the Spirit’s work.
15. Ben Franklin and Tolstoy listed virtues to aspire to, whereas Saint Patrick prayed for Christ to be all around him through the day. Which is more effective and why?
As Paige said, Saint Patrick had it right. Praying to have Christ in every aspect of my life is more effective. Who can go wrong with the best surrounding you at all times? To emulate His ways is to have the virtues of the other two men, and MORE!
16. Read Romans 8:11-17.
A. According to verse 11, what was the Spirit able to do and what should this mean for us?
He raised Jesus from the dead.
B. List some of the promises give to those who live by the Spirit in verses 12-17.
With the help of the Holy Spirit you will put to death your sin and you will have life.
His Spirit joins with our spirit to show we are God’s children.
We are His heirs, heirs to God’s glory. If we share this as heirs, we also share His suffering.
17. Describe how to parent unidolatrously, to eat unidolatrously, to play sports unidolatrously, to use the gifts God has given you unidolatrously. (Choose what is most relevant to you.)
We do these activities with Christ in mind. When we do that we are placing the focus on Him and not the activity or person. This helps us keep idols away. I did not know this idea when I was helping to raise our first 4 kids. I made them my idol. It was excruciating to break that pattern. I eventually did it with a lot of pain and over a long period of time. I could not have done it without God’s guidance. Dee and this blog helped too.
Friday
21. What is your take-away this week and why?
Oh, the big “ion” words (justification, sanctification) within the “Christian “ vocabulary can be quite intimidating but Paige and many of you here brought such clarity to them. We tend to throw these words out thinking everyone knows what they mean, including myself and this week helped me know how to explain them which I’m realizing is so important. Now I ask myself, how well do my children really understand? I want to run to both of them and share…asking God to open my sons heart to want to listen. I know my daughter will as we share spiritual things, but I so want her to grasp the depth! Where was this study so many years ago? Thanks for doing this Dee, as others have said , you are definitely an influencer in my life and really, all you wonderful ladies here! My heart is full❤️
I am so blessed by the many wonderful influencers on this blog!
I second what Sharon and Dee said! This blog group has been one of the biggest influencers in my life! I am thankful for you all!
18. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What are we told to do and why?
We are told to put away the evil of this world and focus our attention on God. Our real life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ is revealed to the whole world we will share His glory!
*19. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What is the order of the commands in this passage?
Set your sights on God.
Think about heaven.
Put to death the sins of earth.
Where is the THEREFORE?
It is where it says “For…” in verse 3. Our lives are hidden in Christ, and we will reap that benefit when He returns.
Why must that always be the order in sanctification?
We have to battle sin constantly, with the help of Jesus. Then we may be sanctified. Sanctification comes as we eat sin at the root; un-Idolatrously! Piper says, “If you aren’t at odds with sin then your aren’t at home with Jesus.”
Does our security in God’s love lead to the mortification of sin, or follow the mortification of sin?
I say both. We need to forge ahead, knowing that God loves us and we need to eradicate the sin within to honor that love. Then, when we have succeeded in the death of the sin, we can relish in His love through the joy brought by not having the sin in control of us.
20. In Revelation 10, John is told to “eat the scroll” and it will make his stomach bitter, but in his mouth will be sweet as honey.” How could this riddle relate to the normal Christian life?
Well, our Christian walk is not an easy one. It is difficult to be like Jesus. However, when the walk is complete and our Savior comes to get us, how sweet that day will be! We must remember we are the prize and will share His glory eventually.
I see where your thinking is with regard to security and mortification of sin, and it is true that dying to self gives evidence to self that we belong to Him, but I think He would want you to feel completely secure in Him because your debt has been fully paid. I do see your point though.
13. Read Romans 8:9-11 and share what you learn about the Spirit.
The Spirit of God lives in every believer and has the ability to control our desires. The Spirit does not live in those who do not belong to Christ. Having the Spirit in me is the same as having Christ in me. The Spirit is also “the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead”. Saying that the Spirit lives in us is the same as saying the Father, Son, and Spirit live in us. The Spirit gives life to our bodies.
14. What does it mean for us that the Spirit “dwells” within us? That He does not drop by, or stop in, or come and go? That we are His temple? That we are not our own? Is that comforting? Convicting? Disconcerting? Is this a source of security or insecurity for us?
My thoughts on what it means that the Spirit dwells, or lives, in us: God has chosen to make His home in me. Henri Nouwen writes so beautifully about this in his book, The Return of the Prodigal Son, about how Jesus told his disciples that the Father and He would come to them and make their home in them. Nouwen writes of the inner place where God has chosen to make His home; everything we need is there, and, Nouwen writes, we get to that place through prayer. So we have the Holy Spirit, Who is very God, as much God as the Father and the Son, living in us…we often say, having taken up residence in our hearts. (Sometimes I look in the mirror and think, where is this place?!) God also make a permanent commitment. We’re not “living together” without any commitment, so that He can leave if He wants. I can’t kick Him out, either. God’s Spirit lives in us by a promise, a covenant, an un-breakable contract, so to speak. It’s marriage for life, and – not until “death do us part”, because death will not part us from His Spirit.
Paige used the word “homesteading” – that the Spirit develops our hearts as His home. I think this is mind-boggling but very comforting and secure. Jesus also spoke of these things in John 15 when He talked about “abide in Me as I in you”. It’s comforting because we’re not left to do life on our own. Our first invitation from Jesus was “Come to Me….” and then “Abide in Me”. Eric Liddell and Harold Abrahams exemplify this: Liddell had the Spirit. He felt God’s pleasure as he ran, a sign of Jesus abiding in him and he in Him. Abrahams did not have the Spirit. He felt pressured to perform, to win, to prove himself. He was beset with insecurity.
15. Ben Franklin and Tolstoy listed virtues to aspire to, whereas Saint Patrick prayed for Christ to be all around him through the day. Which is more effective and why?
It’s not a bad thing to want to acquire certain virtues, but the problem is that we don’t have the power to do it on our own. It sound as if St. Patrick prayed to remind himself that Jesus was in and all around him as he went about his day, and he drew on His power to help him as he ministered to others, or to be virtuous.
16. Read Romans 8:11-17
A. According to verse 11, what was the Spirit able to do and what should this mean for us?
The Spirit was the power that raised Jesus from the dead. Now that is POWER. Paige put it like this: “But we ask, I don’t know; can He make any difference in me? Can He take someone like me and grow holiness in me?” We need to think about this: this same Spirit can empty graves and put beating hearts in dead bodies. It is the same Spirit of Jesus who called out a dead man from a tomb, too, after several days. How can we/I then sink into despair and want to give up because of this kind of thinking, that I will never change?
B. List some of the promises given to those who live by the Spirit in verses 12-17.
The Spirit can help me put to death the misdeeds of the body. We have received the Spirit of sonship (daughter-ship!) We can call God Abba, Father. The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are His children. We are God’s heirs, co-heirs with Jesus.
17. Describe how to parent unidolatrously, to eat unidolatrously, to play sports unidolatrously, to use the gifts God has given you unidolatrously. (Choose what is most relevant to you.)
Since becoming almost a total empty-nester, I have joined a private FB group for empty nest moms, and it is a Christian group. There’s a lot of grief and heartache expressed in many of the posts and a lot of similar themes: what is my life purpose now, I feel as if I’ve lost my identity, I’m depressed, my marriage isn’t so great. I can identify. Why? Because when I was raising my kids, my identity was “Mom”. My kids were my life, why I got up every day and looked forward to the day; they gave me unconditional love (well, until they got to be high-school age), comfort, companionship, security, approval, affirmation, security. I have to honestly admit that God was not number one in my heart. I had “disordered affections”. Of course, my children were and are tremendous blessings from God and He meant for me to love them, care for them, and enjoy them and enjoy being their mom, but not for them to become my life. When they grow up and move away, I still believe it’s normal to feel sadness because I’m human and yes, I miss those years and I miss seeing them. But sliding into depression, intense sadness, feeling lost, anxious, purposeless, like life has lost its meaning indicates something of a problem.
I had many of those intense feelings in the Fall of 2019 when my youngest moved into her college dorm her freshman year. I felt so lost and alone. Paige says that we need to speak the truth to ourselves, by saying “_____ is not my life. Christ is my life.” That was a good and helpful tip, but I don’t believe we can just say it and it will make the idols of our hearts disappear. She also spoke about Chalmers’ and how we need a “new affection” that will expel the idol’s place in our hearts. That takes action on my part. I need to repent of my idolatry, spend time with Him, redirect my heart and my focus. I still always go back to Rebecca’s testimony in Idol Lies. Watching the news and eating had replaced God in importance in her life. She had to turn away from those things and begin to replace them with spending time with Him, reading spiritual books. And, she had to wait, sometimes painfully so. Now, with our kids, we can’t put them aside, but we need to, with God’s help, keep them in their rightful place as wonderful blessings and people to love….and especially to remember that ultimately they belong to Him and not to us. I also remember Dee talking about looking for “red flags” that tell us an idol is operating. So, my son didn’t call me and my heart is sinking….what is that telling me? I need to turn back to Jesus as He is my life. This is more easily expressed and written about here than done!
Susan, as always, thank you for your vulnerable sharing about your children. I still struggle with “keeping [my daughter in her] rightful place”. Just love her and not making her an idol. I am thankful for the Holy Spirit “homesteading” in me and always refining my heart and mind. Thank God I am not left alone in my maneuverings to control my significant relationships so I can avoid discomfort. Putting my sins to death daily is hard.
Oh Susan I see such growth in you and know you can be a mentor to those empty nester facebook moms.
18. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What are we told to do and why?
We are to set our hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at God’s right hand. We are to set our minds on things above and not on earthly things. Our old self died, and we have a new life now, hidden with Christ in God. We must put to death, therefore, all those things that were a part of our earthly nature: immorality, lust, greed, evil desires, idolatry. I kind of get this icky image of being a new person but walking around with a dead corpse strapped on your back. Not only does is smell bad, but it’s heavy and “dead weight” and gets in the way of everything you try to do. We need to get rid of it.
19. Read Colossians 3:1-5. What is the order of commands in this passage? Where is the THEREFORE? Why must that always be the order in sanctification? Does our security in God’s love lead to the mortification of sin, or follow the mortification of sin?
Order of commands: Set your hearts on things above. Set your minds on things above. Put to death whatever belongs to your sinful nature.
The “Therefore” comes after being told that we have been raised with Christ and now have a new heart and mind that is able to focus on spiritual things. Paige said that the positive comes before the negative. As in sanctification, the justification always comes first because it must. If we were told first to put to death our sinful nature on our own, and then we will have God’s love and His mind and our hearts will be like His, we would have no hope of ever achieving that. The “Therefore” says, in a way, “Now that you are fully equipped with these heavenly tools that have been give to you by God….go ahead and get rid of these things.”
20. In Revelation 10, John is told to “eat the scroll” and it will make his stomach bitter, but in his mouth will be “sweet as honey”. How could this riddle relate to the normal Christian life?
Sometimes, obeying God isn’t pleasant, at least not at first. It’s not pleasant to be the first one to apologize, to admit you sinned, to take a step to make things right, or to turn away from something you know is sinful but you like doing it. It can seem bitter at first, but the fruit of turning away in the end will be pleasant.
21. What is your take-away this week and why?
My ears always perk up at any talk about idolatry. I always need these reminders. Paige talked about killing sin at the root, asking myself, “Why am I greedy, anxious, angry, lustful…” It’s because something besides Jesus is my beauty, my significance, security, importance. An idol always lies at the root of sin. I also want to remember the motivation: she said that we can acknowledge our sin because we have a big banner of no condemnation over our head, so there’s nothing we can’t face, or confess, because we already have the love of God. The love of God is the foundation for everything. It’s His love that will keep me “at home” instead of going off to the far country like the prodigal son in search of things that are at home already.
Susan, I really liked what you said about it not being pleasant to be the first to apologize or admit you sinned or try to make things right, and yet in the end, it is very sweet to have done so.
I’m singing at my church tomorrow morning and am excited because of what it’s about. she’s lamenting over her sin (idolatry). laying it down at Jesus feet.
“Oh let this be, where I die. My Lord with Thee,. Be lifted high as my kingdoms fall, once and for all, once and for all.” The link to the song is below.
https://youtu.be/4oaRYLEIeis
Beautiful, Rebecca! I have not heard of this before. Will somebody be recording you singing? I would love to hear your beautiful voice again!
oh Rebecca–what I would give to go and listen to you!! Praying for protection over all logistics and for Him to be glorified!
Rebecca, thank you So Much for this link!! It is late on Saturday, and we leave on vacation tomorrow. I still have a lot to do, and am worked up. That usually leads to my eating unnecessarily. But in listening to this song, my heart breaks before God. I want to lay myself down before Him and die here….
Praying for His anointing on you dear Rebecca!