We are at a pivotal point in Mark.
Keller calls it “The Turn.”
The disciples have been following Jesus, believing He
had come to rescue them out of all their troubles.
He turns and tells them he must suffer and be killed.
Peter rebukes him.
How can this be?
Our symbol this week is a man falling off a cliff,
for Jesus tells us to follow Him into “death.”
We must die to ourselves to find real life,
and it can feel like this:
I certainly felt that way when I realized as a young mother that Jesus was who He claimed to be, and that if I clung to my life and to my dreams for what I thought would make me happy, I would lose my life.
It felt frightening to surrender, but I am so thankful God gave me the faith to do so, for the Lord kept His promise.
I found, and am continuing to find, life to the full.
As missionary Jim Elliot said:
Yet Elliot also said that you can’t really give your whole life to the Lord in a single moment, it is a daily dying. And so together, through this study, we urge one another to live with abandonment to Him, knowing the way up is down!
Also, in the season of Lent, of repentance, we will not turn from our idols unless we trust God to be there for us, for He is love.
This brings me to our highlight from our discussion last week.
Highlight from Last Week’s Discussion:
Several of you commented that you hadn’t seen how the miracle of the “second touch” is also a metaphor for how He keeps touching us to heal our blindness. In part, so we don’t just see people as “trees walking.” Julie P. wrote:
OH WOW…Seeing people as trees walking. This hit hard. I want to have my eyes looking up and forward and not down that I pass up an opportunity to be kind and loving to someone.
We also need continual healing for the “cataracts” we develop, that make us blind to His constant love. Jennifer G. is one who was so overwhelmed when she saw God’s love for the first time, but she realizes she must keep seeing it. She made a couple of wonderful statements:
I am reminded there is nothing I can do to win God’s love. He has already freely given it. I must remember that and walk in that truth instead if the lies I tell myself or allow myself to believe.
And she also noticed how people who often go out and tell after Jesus told them not to, but:
…even in our disobedience He loves us completely
We have to keep remembering. My friend Sylvia also called me, referring to the question of last week if God is ever disappointed in us, and said she felt the theme of Scripture is that He is grieved rather than disappointed, looking particularly at Hosea. That whole book is a picture of God’s great love for a bride who keeps grieving Him by running after her lovers.
And Hosea 14 is a picture of true repentance. Take a look at it. Sylvia said: “He is grieved by our sin, by our running to idols instead of to Him, for it so wounds us when we don’t trust His love.” Grief seems a more accurate word than disappointed. I thought that too was insightful.
Thoughts? Great to keep talking.
Oh Lord, give us your second touch, so that today and all this week we might see people, not as trees walking, but those who need love, and help us to be good repenters, “dying” to our false lovers, running away from them and into your arms, so that we might be “like a green pine tree.”
Sunday:
- What stands out to you from the above and why?
- Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result?
Monday: Who Do You Say That I AM?
3. Read Mark 8:27-30
A. How did the disciples respond to Jesus’ question: “Who do people say that I am?”
B. Who do people say that He is today?
C. When He directed the question to His disciples, who was the first to answer and what
did He say?
4. Read Mark 8:31-33.
A. What shocking thing does He now tell them?
B. How does Peter respond, and why, do you think?
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think?
5. What insight does Daniel 7:13-14 give you into Jesus title “Son of Man?” Can you turn this
Scripture into a praise of adoration?
6. Read the opening of chapter 8 in Keller’s book, up to “A Personal Necessity” and share any
comments or questions.
Tuesday: Falling Into His The Everlasting Arms
Elisabeth Elliot always began her radio program, Gateway to Joy, with:
“‘You are loved with an everlasting love,’ that’s what the Bible says,
‘and underneath are the everlasting arms.’”
That trust in His love, in His goodness, helped her to live her life with reckless abandonment.
7. Read “A Personal Necessity” in Chapter 8.
A. What does Vanstone say is the difference between false love and true love?
B. When you look at your relationships, asking God to help you see, would you agree
that “there’s a certain mercenery quality to your relationships?”
C. Keller says “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all.” If we
believe that, it fills us up and helps us to love better. How has the Word (perhaps think of
The Song of Songs) or the reality of Christ’s presence in your life helped you to love
others better?
8. Read the note from the young woman in Keller’s church at the end of this section. Can you identify? Why or why not? Pray for yourself to move toward this kind of trust and true love.
Wednesday: Winning Through Losing
9. Read a Legal Necessity in Keller’s book and explain why Jesus had to die.
10. Read A Cosmis Necessity in Keller’s book and explain how Jesus won through losing.
11. Is there anything else in these two sections that stood out to you? If so, what and why?
Thursday: A Way of The Cross
12. Read Mark 8:34-9:1
A. To whom is Jesus speaking?
B. What does He tell them is required in a disciple?
C. Some say you can be saved yet not a disciple. What evidence is there in the text
to cast doubt on that?
D. Find all the reasons you can that Jesus gives for “losing your life.”
13. N. T. Wright asks this good question: “How have you seen in your life and in others’ lives
that “if you want to save your life, you’ll lose it, but if you lose your life because of me and
the Message, you’ll save it?”
14. If Christ leads us into danger, why should we not dread the loss of our lives?
15. Using this passage, pray for yourself and those close to you.
Friday: A New Kind of King
15. Ask the Lord to help you focus as you carefully read Keller’s closing section in this chapter.
Share your notes and comments.
Saturday: Review
16. What do you think you will remember about this week’s lesson and why?
17. Is God impacting your life through His Word? If so, give a praise.
128 comments
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I have always been afraid of heights. The idea of jumping off the cliff is SO scary to me. I might not “make it” in the end. I sometimes feel alone in this journey. On Friday I had a brief encounter with 2 colleagues who aren’t particularly God people. Neither go to church and both can be extremely moody and grumpy at times. One reminds me of me, 10 years ago. I wasn’t too happy in my response to them as we talked about God; sometimes I can get tongue tied and not know what to say. They were talking about teaching jobs in private schools…the low pay. I came into the conversation late and put in my two cents…about how many of those teachers aren’t doing it for the pay (unheard of!). One of them made a comment and I said that all you need to know about Jesus is love. The younger one (not the one that reminds me of me) said, “well, you have to believe that God is the one Savior and I don’t believe that.” How do you respond to that?? Ugh. I’m pretty sure these two will remain grumpy for many years to come. When I fall, I fall into His arms and that is a happy place to be. Thank You Lord.
2. Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result?
The whole quote from Jim Eliot is good. I’m trying to become a better steward of my body, with food and drink. It is difficult, but when I do, my insides feel better; I feel better all around. I have to die daily. When I falter I must get back up and try again. Persistence is paramount.
Persistence is paramount! And when we see how obedience in healthy habits affects our body and sense of well being, I think it should encourage to see how obedience in loving and walking in the light will affect our soul and sense of well being.
I thought your answer about love was good. Often we think of better replies after a conversation.
I like Keller’s response about what did it cost your god to love you?
I tend to say, “If you examine the evidence for the resurrection, you’ll find it overwhelming. Read or watch the Case for Christ. He is the only One who claims to have risen from the dead — the rest are dead.”
I applaud you for entering in and loving them, Laura.
Dee, where can you find the Case for Christ to watch?
Laura, I’m so like you when talking to someone. I feel so inadequate to defend the God that has helped me through my struggles.
Here’s a link to the movie on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/99bbBKSrZfE
Craziest thing happened with that grumpy young woman this week…we had “Kindness Day” on Friday and she sent me a post card to brighten my day 😊. I wasn’t the only one… She really has had a bad last year I will say. So, I can be lenient on her for the grumpiness!
1. what stands out to you from the above and why? “Yet Elliot also said that you can’t really give your whole life to the Lord in a single moment, it is a daily dying.” This is a comfort to my religion-bent weary soul. There are so many stories of faithful Saints that my daily pursuits seem piteous in comparison … can this mundane ritual really be a life fully committed to the Lord? Surely if I was better my life would be ‘bigger’! No. The Gospel firmly, continuously, unfailingly assures me that small obediences (daily deaths to self) are where the Holy Spirit is working. Some days I may get a mountain top view (something grand and amazing in its God manifestation) BUT the Gospel assures me that the beauty in a single lowly short-for-this-world flower holds the same testimony as the mountain – God the Creator. “God doesn’t get His addresses wrong” (Butterfield) therefore I am where He has meant me to be. And His Gospel will keep working on my heart to give courage and love to do His work. Amen and Amen. 2. Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result? I had a disturbing issue come up at work, a conflict. I stewed and stewed about it and vented (was pretty upset at and ashamed of my reaction to it). As I finally drove home when the work day was done I really sought the Lord and He showed me my fault in the conflict (even though I tried my hardest to justify it away). And so, following my conviction, I went and talked face-to-face with the individuals. I apologized for my part and spoke (I hope) kindly but frankly about their part. The result was much more about my own heart than about the conflict. Small steps that show His work in my heart. On the practical side one of the gals involved sent me a very complimentary text the next day which was surprising.
I also wanted to comment about Jesus being ‘disappointed’. I have not studied it but I really like what Sylvia said and it reflects my own initial thoughts on the topic. I think grieve is much more accurate. Disappointment implies expectations for a difference choice or performance… but Christ knows our every thought and move so to be disappointed would mean that He thought we would “do better.” Instead I think He is grieved at the hard parts in our journeys, the places where we forget and choose hurtful things over Gospel things. Thank you for sharing Sylvia’s thoughts.
So many good thoughts, metaphors, and then a powerful testimony. Thank you, Jill! I loved the beauty of a flower for a day…
Jill, thank you for sharing about your shortcomings in your work situation. I applaud you for going back and apologizing. I find that when I blow it like that at work, I sometimes tend to lay low and wait for it to blow over instead of admitting my wrongdoing or my bad reaction, but you’ve encouraged me to do otherwise.
Jill, it took courage for you to go to your coworkers and admit your own part in the conflict as the Lord had convicted you. Along with Dawn, I applaud you for that.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Not in a single moment, but a daily dying to self and it is like jumping off a cliff, but as Laura so sweetly said, landing in His arms. That God isn’t disappointed when we sin rather He grieves-what a difference in words!
2. Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result?
Relational idolatry: Turned from making my marriage the ultimate but learned turning the first time doesn’t mean I won’t be tempted daily and I have been. The result? the chain of my idol has been broken for I am in chains to Christ, so TRUE FREEDOM in Christ. As the days go by my idol pulls me back into bondage but though Paul was in chains in a prison cell the truth is that he was in chains to Christ and it is true with me because of Him. So yes, each day I need to surrender for it is a lie to think one time of surrender is all I need, but with each surrender, I am learning He abandons me more to Him which is what my sinful heart so needs!
This is SOOOOOO WONDERFUL TO HEAR.
This is gold, Rebecca!
Rebecca,
Thank you for this encouraging post. Words I needed to hear.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Jennifer’s words are such a needed reminder for me “I am reminded there is nothing I can do to win God’s love. He has already freely given it. I must remember that and walk in that truth instead if the lies I tell myself or allow myself to believe.”
I do believe His Word that He loves me but it is so hard to really let myself feel it as love without any conditions except my trust in Him. I so want to trust His love more. I so often feel I am working for Him rather than with Him, still trying to prove or earn my standing. But more and more I see how this affects my relationships, and keeps me clinging to the idol of approval, crippled by the fear of not being loved, trying to be dutiful, useful, needed–so I can earn being loved. I also believe it does grieve Him, as Dee said above, when I don’t trust His love for me. I am beginning to see the sin that keeps me from it–for it is fear, rather than truly trusting in His words. Psalm 139. I surrender my fear, my doubts, the lies.
2. Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result?
Well, in addition to my thoughts above, I have a new challenge I will commit here, now, to surrender to Him, trusting His plan.
3. Read Mark 8:27-30 A. How did the disciples respond to Jesus’ question: “Who do people say that I am?”
“John the Baptist; and others say, Elijah; and others, one of the prophets.
B. Who do people say that He is today?
A great man who loves and accepts everyone no matter what. Or, other says He is unfair, unloving, a harsh judge.
C. When He directed the question to His disciples, who was the first to answer and what did He say?
Peter said “You are the Christ”.
Lizzy — we are doing Keller’s Lenten study on the Psalms and heard such a good message from David Bisgrove on Psalm 34, a psalm that has always rather confused me for God doesn’t deliver us out of all our troubles. Bisgrove made a great case for God delivering us out of our fears as we take the eternal view, and realize also, eternally, He delivers us out of all our troubles. He said to replace the fear of our circumstances with the fear of God and we will be delivered from our fears.
Yes Dee! This is so true.
Sunday:
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? – I love the Jim Elliot quote “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose” and “that you can’t really give your whole life to the Lord in a single moment, it is a daily dying.” This is so true…”In the season of Lent, of repentance, we will not turn from our idols unless we trust God to be there for us, for He is love.” These are very important reminders I think. Our society is always in a hurry to get nowhere. We have prepared foods in the stores, we have fast cars, drive up lanes for everything. Sometimes the conveniences in our lives can really be against us. We don’t stop to see what we are putting in our bodies, are we eating to get full or should we be looking at what we eat to be satisfied, a more lasting feeling. When we are in such a hurry we don’t have the time to really see what is in front of us and the reason we see people as trees walking around. We are so worried about what material items we have that will not last a lifetime, instead of knowing that God provides what we need each day. There is no reason to hoard, to hold on to things we don’t need, God can take it all away in an instant. We need to give it up and hold on to the love only God can give us, to seek Him to help us through our days. He is all we need to be satisfied.
2. Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result? – I’ve given up my life and family’s lives. I realized I cannot control them any longer and I need God to bring the people in their lives that will bring them back to the cross. I can be there as a mom, wife, sister, but I can’t get them to the cross unless they are open to it. I’ve planted the seeds, now they may have to be watered by someone else that comes along and I’m ok with that. For my life, I’m asking God to cleanse me from the inside out, so my changes are more lasting and fulfilling. The results from this are slowly happening, which shows that the change in our life is not overnight, but a daily effort. I’m seeing my youngest going back to church, I’m seeing my stepson and his wife ask questions about God and going back to church. I’m seeing my husband change in front of my own eyes, in being more observant of what is happening in front of him, his eyes are being open. And for me, I’m feeling freer, lighter in my soul if that makes any sense. What a great feeling it is to see and know that God is good all the time.
…”feeling freer, lighter in my soul if that makes any sense.” All the sense in the world!!!
Julie, what a wonderful testimony of God’s power in the life of your family, and your life, as you have been so faithfully praying for them and letting go. This really encourages me.
Makes so much sense, Julie!
Julie, it is so good to see the freedom you are experiencing as you are giving up the idol of control in your life…feeling freer, lighter in your soul!
Sunday1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I find this statement, “Losing your life to find it” so philosophical on its own. I’m glad that we have the Word to bring it’s full meaning to light. It isn’t an easy truth…I want to be in control. Looking forward to this study.
2. Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result?
This is a good question for a control freak and I hate to admit it but it rears it’s ugly head while I’m driving. This morning driving to church I had a person tailgating me. I turned off onto a side street to the main highway. I saw that the driver that was tailgating me had gone up the next side street hoping to beat me. I drove by her and just smiled and the look on her face wasn’t anger but rather despair. She turned in behind me and I just felt the Lord telling me to pray for her and listening to His voice (not audibly of course) snapped me out of my ugly control mode and I prayed for her. The result was compassion and peace. I would of let her in front of me at that time but she turned.
Wow, the Lord gave you a “second touch” to really see her!
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
“He is grieved rather than disappointed.” Grief is probably a better word and certainly a heartbreaking word. Sin breaks God’s heart and grieved him so much that he sent Jesus to pay the penalty for our sins. Because sin has to be atoned for. God cannot look on sin.
What I was objecting to in our discussion a couple of weeks ago was the statement “Jesus is never disappointed with us.” That implies that he is not hurt or grieved when we wrong him. Also, if we truly believe that he is not disappointed or grieved with us, then we might embrace the idea that we can sin and it does not matter. As the Apostle Paul said, “Shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid!” It is very dangerous to say, “Jesus is never disappointed with us” unless we give (or make sure that others understand) the entire context that it grieved him so much Jesus had to die for it.
2. Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result?
I am reading Brennan Manning’s “Ruthless Trust” at the moment. It is a book I read about 20 years ago, that impacted me greatly at the time and I needed to revisit it. He has a chapter on the glory of God where he challenges our mindless worship (going unthinkingly through the forms of worship with our minds and hearts elsewhere). I was mindful of that today at church when I had a restless preteen grandson sitting beside me, antsy to get going. I may not be physically restless but am I truly focused on Christ? I am praying for a renewed experience of the glory of God in my life with, among other things, a new passion that overcomes my self-conscious reticence to share my faith. This confronts my idols – my love of comfort and my desire to be accepted. Do I love God more than the approval of others? More than my comfort zone? I am battling these questions right now.
Oh Dianne, I too am battling with those last two questions!
It’s been a great discussion, Diane, and I’m so thankful for your part in it.
Diane, you said exactly what I feel, the confrontation of my idols of comfort and my desire to be accepted. Do I love God more than the approval of others? I want to overcome my self-conscious reticence to share my faith, too. Prayers for each of us to have surrender in this area. thank you
Diane, thank you for explaining further about how we must not take ‘Jesus is never disappointed with us’ and leave out the entire context that our sin does grieve Him, and that Jesus had to die for our sin. That makes sense to me.
Monday
3. Read Mark 8:27-30
A. How did the disciples respond to Jesus’ question: “Who do people say that I am?”
Some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah and others say You‘re one of the prophets.
B. Who do people say that He is today?
A great teacher. A crutch for Christians. Just a man. The Son of God. The Lamb of God. The Messiah
C. When He directed the question to His disciples, who was the first to answer and what did He say?
Peter answered, You are he Messiah.
3. Read Mark 8:27-30
A. How did the disciples respond to Jesus’ question: “Who do people say that I am?” Some said he was John the Baptist, or Elijah, or a prophet.
B. Who do people say that He is today?
A teacher, or a ” way shower” instead of “The Way”. Some say He isn’t God. The popular one now a days is Jesus sinned like us so there are blasphemous movies and conversations that portray Him in the most unholy way.
C. When He directed the question to His disciples, who was the first to answer and what did He say? Peter, of course. 🙂 Peter said he was the Messiah.
Note: I have to say verse 29: “But what about you? Who do you say I am?” – popped out to me. I wonder if Jesus changed His tone here? The intense love and desire Jesus has for them seems to be revealed here.
4. Read Mark 8:31-33.
A. What shocking thing does He now tell them? That He must suffer many things and be rejected by the Elders, chief priests and teachers, and be killed and three days later rise.
B. How does Peter respond, and why, do you think? Peter took Jesus aside and rebuked Him.
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think? Get behind me Satan, you don’t have the concerns of God but of human concerns. Jesus said this to Peter because Peter was looking at Him as a mere human being-not thinking about Him being God also.
5. What insight does Daniel 7:13-14 give you into Jesus title “Son of Man?” That his title Son of Man isn’t merely human, although it is, but also exalted. Jesus was given authority, glory and sovereign power over all nations and everyone will bow down and worship Him. Can you turn this Scripture into a praise of adoration? Yes and I wrote it out here but then it was too long so I erased it-so glad to get to adore Him this morning! 🙂
5. What insight does Daniel 7:13-14 give you into Jesus title “Son of Man?” Can you turn this Scripture into a praise of adoration?
The Son of man is given divinity here. He comes on the clouds with the Ancient of Days [God]. And he was given dominion and glory and a kingdom. All peoples will serve him. His dominion is everlasting, shall not pass away or be destroyed.
Jesus, you have been given rule over the entire world. Yet right now, others rule it; many of whom are under Satan’s rule. Darkness reigns. Come soon, Lord Jesus, and take up your throne and rule with power and glory. Help those of us who believe in you to serve you as we ought to right now. You are King. Thank you that your kingdom will never ever end.
6. Read the opening of chapter 9 in Keller’s book, up to “A Personal Necessity” and share any comments or questions.
Quotes that stood out:
“Yes, I’m the King, but I’m not anything like the king you were expecting.”
The Son of Man must suffer.” Never before had anyone in Israel connected suffering with the Messiah. The Messiah was supposed to defeat evil and injustice and make everything right.
By using the word must, Jesus is also indicating that he is planning to die voluntarily. He is saying, “This is why I came; I intend to die.” That is totally inexplicable to Peter. Jesus is saying “I have to die.” The world and you cannot be renewed unless I die.”
Comments:
From his mother’s knee, Peter had always been told that when the Messiah came he would defeat evil and injustice by ascending the throne. But here is Jesus saying, “Yes, I’m the Messiah, the King, but I came not to live but to die. I’m not here to take power but to lose it; … that’s how I’m going to defeat evil and put everything right.”
It’s hard to live in this world and watch rulers destroy people and people destroy each other. It’s hard to watch creation be destroyed as well. I so long for Jesus to return and make all things right – defeat evil and injustice. Based on my own fervent desires for Jesus’ second coming, I can understand why Peter would think, “Well, Jesus has just got it wrong. This is not how things must work. I have to correct him; straighten out his thinking. The Messiah must come and fix things. He cannot suffer and die.”
Love your comments here, Diane.
So key from Diane: By using the word must, Jesus is also indicating that he is planning to die voluntarily.
Some churches teach Jesus was murdered. No!
Love this Diane and so agree “It’s hard to live in this world and watch rulers destroy people and people destroy each other. It’s hard to watch creation be destroyed as well. I so long for Jesus to return and make all things right – defeat evil and injustice”
Monday
4. Read Mark 8:31-33.
A. What shocking thing does He now tell them?
Calling Himself the Son of Man He tells them He will suffer greatly, be rejected by the elders, leading priest and teachers of religious law. Be killed and 3 days later raise from the dead.
B. How does Peter respond, and why, do you think?
He reprimands Jesus and tells Him not to talk that way. I can’t imagine someone I’ve grown to know, seeing all the miracles…the wonderful things they’ve been doing in helping people, talk so morbidly. Also, in Jesus telling Peter he was looking at what He said from a human perspective tells me Peter still didn’t fully understand why Jesus had come. His idea of Messiah was someone who was going to deliver the Jewish nation. Did Peter even hear when He said “3 days later I’ll raise from the dead? I’m glad that there’s a Peter in the gospels…so human, so me!
5. What insight does Daniel 7:13-14 give you into Jesus title “Son of Man?” Can you turn this Scripture into a praise of adoration?
Daniel saw a son of man in human form, coming on the clouds, presented to the Ancient of Days and given authority, honor, and sovereignty over all the nations of the world, so people of every race, nation and language would obey him. His rule is eternal and his kingdom will never be destroyed.
I humbly come before You Jesus in praise and worship. Knowing that You have authority, honor and sovereignty over all the nations, Your rule is eternal and Your kingdom will never be destroyed is comforting, brings me peace and hope. And because of who You are, all people will obey You. At the name of Jesus, every knee should bow…every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord!
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think?
“Get behind me Satan.” I think what Peter said was a temptation to Jesus. He knew the plan of His Father and didn’t need anyone or anything causing Him not to follow through. Hebrews 2:18a, “For since He Himself was tempted…”
So sorry I missed this and I have no idea why it had to be approved!!!
I often see the gift of mercy in your comments.
Your comment is awaiting moderation. (I thought I’d repost this as it has been 3 hours since I posted this 🤷🏻♀️. And I noticed I hadn’t done this question!!)
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think?“Get behind me Satan.” I think what Peter said was a temptation to Jesus. He knew the plan of His Father and didn’t need anyone or anything causing Him not to follow through. Hebrews 2:18a, “For since He Himself was tempted…”
Monday: Who Do You Say That I AM?
3. Read Mark 8:27-30
A. How did the disciples respond to Jesus’ question: “Who do people say that I am?” – They told him that some thought he was John the Baptist, some thought Elijah and others thought a prophet.
B. Who do people say that He is today? – Christ, Son of Man, Son of God, Messiah, King of Kings
C. When He directed the question to His disciples, who was the first to answer and what did He say? – Peter answered first when asked Who do you say I am. He told Jesus “You are the Christ.”
4. Read Mark 8:31-33.
A. What shocking thing does He now tell them? – That he must suffer many things and be rejected by elders and chief priests and killed and after 3 days he will rise again.
B. How does Peter respond, and why, do you think? – he took Jesus aside and rebuked him for saying those things. Did he say this because he loved Jesus so much that he didn’t want to believe that was going to happen? Or was it part of God’s plan for Peter to be the one to do since he was also going to deny him.
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think? – Jesus rebuked Peter and said “Get behind Me, Satan; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.” Did he rebuke Peter so the other disciples would not follow along with Peter, because these things happening to Jesus is God’s plan and had to happen in this way?
I’m sure His rebuke must have hurt Peter — yet so important for Peter to grasp! And yes, Julie, the others too.
Monday
6. Read the opening of chapter 8 in Keller’s book, up to “A Personal Necessity” and share any comments or questions.
The word must in Jesus saying that He must suffer, He must die, modifies and controls the whole sentence. It means that everything listed in this sentence was a necessity. Keller goes on to say that “this is one of the most significant words in the story of the world, and it’s a scary word. What Jesus said was not just ‘I’ve come to die, but I have to die’.”
Wow! Such obedience, such love!
Monday
5. What insight does Daniel 7:13-14 give you into Jesus title “Son of Man?” Can you turn this Scripture into a praise of adoration? – He was coming with the clouds of heaven and has authority, glory and sovereign power. Everyone will worship him and his dominion is everlasting and will never pass away…Oh Lord, thank you for giving me hope, hope that everyone I love will finally worship you before you come. Your dominion is never going to go away. We will always have you with us until you take us home. Your power will never be overtaken, you will rule over all the world, and that is enough for me to look forward to.
6. Read the opening of chapter 9 in Keller’s book, up to “A Personal Necessity” and share any comments or questions. – Peter rebuking Jesus is like Jesus rebuking demons. Was this the start of Peter’s denial or is he just that scared for Jesus to leave him. It seems like Peter was just starting to understand Jesus, and the next minute he is saying I MUST suffer, I MUST die. His friend and teacher is being taken away and he didn’t even get to enjoy him fully. I see that Jesus voluntarily put himself in my place to die for me and everyone else that knows him, and I guess those that don’t since we are all sinners, that if he can do that for me, I definitely can die to my old sinful ways and respect the sacrifice he made for me on the cross. Makes me feel really bad that he put up the ulitmate sacrifice but as our Father, he would do that without question. I can only ask Him to help me do the same if the time comes for me to give my life for my children. Will my fear take hold or will He give me the strength I need to overcome that fear and step in to save those I love, but may not love me the same. OUCH!
Julie, what a good question you ask, “Was this the start of Peter’s denial?” I think my answer to that is “Probably.” Jesus saying that the Messiah must suffer and die, just did not make sense to the Jewish brain brought up to understand that the Messiah would be the conquering hero. If Peter never really did believe that Jesus needed to suffer and die, if Peter secretly believed that Jesus really would not die, then when it became obvious that Jesus intended to do just that, of course, Peter would deny him. He probably would think “What is the use of sticking with Jesus? He is not the Messiah we hoped he was?” Peter could not conceive that Jesus would actually rise from the dead!
Thank you Diane, that makes a lot of sense to me now.
3. Read Mark 8:27-30
A. How did the disciples respond to Jesus’ question: “Who do people say that I am?”
They said some thought he was a prophet, some John the Baptist, and some Elijah.
B. Who do people say that He is today?
It depends….Christians believe He is the Messiah, some think He was a “good man,” some think He was a prophet.
C. When He directed the question to His disciples, who was the first to answer and what did He say?
It was Peter. He said He was the Messiah.
4. Read Mark 8:31-33. A. What shocking thing does He now tell them?
Jesus told the disciples that He must suffer and be killed, and on the 3rd day rise again.
B. How does Peter respond, and why, do you think?
Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. I have always loved Peter, He seems to be the one willing to say and do what is in our nature but we may be afraid of saying. He’s real and honest, he messes up. But he loves Jesus.
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think?
“Get behind me, Satan! For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
Jesus knew that the enemy had put these thoughts in Peter, confusing him about Jesus’ purpose, trying to lure him away from the truth. I see this as Jesus rebuking Satan in Peter more than a harsh word at Peter himself. He is addressing the root—the wayward heart in all of us.
The quote from Jim Elliot has always stood out to me. “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.”
Dying to self, yes, is an ongoing process. I agree that we must be good repenters and pray along with you that I might have my goal to see more clearly and to love others more dearly, To surrender completely and to die to false lovers.
Thanks for the encouragement, Julie, Jennifer, Dee.
3. When Jesus asked his disciples who do people say I am, they answered, John the Baptist, one of the prophets… But who do you say I am, and Peter spoke, You are the Christ!
4. Then the shocking news came when Jesus told them he must suffer many things and be killed. Peter responds negatively and took him aside and rebuked him! Of course the disciples wanted their Messiah to be a reigning king and expected a different outcome. Jesus then rebuked Peter.
5. Daniel’s vision “there came one like a son of man, Ancient of Days, and was given a kingdom, that all peoples might serve Him. His Kingdom is one that will never be destroyed!
In Keller’s chapter, he says, “Jesus said, I’m the King but I’m not anything like the king you are expecting.” they had the notion that the Messiah was supposed to defeat evil and make everything right in the world. When Jesus says I must suffer and die, this is too hard for Peter to accept. Jesus says. I Have to die.
Who do people say I am today? A great man, a prophet, some, my Savior”. I just read Patricia Raybon’s book, Undivided, written with her daughter who became a Muslim. Such discussions they had about Who is Jesus? Her daughter will not accept Jesus as God, but respects his teaching. It is an incredible journey for the two to reach out to each other, taking separate spiritual journeys.
Always love recommendations of good books, Shirley!
Oh this sounds interesting, I need to write this one down.
4. Read Mark 8:31-33.
A. What shocking thing does He now tell them?
He tells them that the Son of Man will suffer, be rejected by the leaders, and die. However, three days later will rise from the grave.
B. How does Peter respond, and why, do you think?
Peter really gets upset and tells Jesus (!) to not talk that way. I’m sure Peter is bothered by the information Jesus gives him.
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think?
Jesus calls Peter Satan (!) and says he is only seeing things from a human perspective, not God’s perspective.
5. What insight does Daniel 7:13-14 give you into Jesus title “Son of Man?” Can you turn this Scripture into a praise of adoration?
Oh, Son of Man! How I love You! Thank You for giving Your life so that I could join You in heaven one day. Thank You for suffering so I wouldn’t have to; for taking my place. I can’t wait for the day when You come from heaven in the clouds and claim me as one of yours. That day will be a beautiful thing. Forever, You will reign forever. I love You, oh Son of Man. Amen.
6. Read the opening of chapter 8 in Keller’s book, up to “A Personal Necessity” and share any comments or questions.
“If you want to follow me, you’ve got to come to the cross too.”
“Never before this moment had anyone in Israel connected suffering with the Messiah.”
“…the Messiah was supposed to defeat evil and injustice and make everything right in the world. How could he defeat evil by suffering and dying? That seemed ridiculous, impossible.”
I guess I never thought about this much before (the last few sentences above). I just took it on faith. It then dawned on me that sometimes when I am more humble and kind in bad situations, I end up being the one that benefits. I wonder if doing the opposite to what others think you should is really a better option than your initial gut reaction to a situation?
Certainly we should see the Lord’s approval and not man’s — not always easy!
6. Read the opening of chapter 8 in Keller’s book, up to “A Personal Necessity” and share any comments or questions.
I am blown away by the fact that the woman was the first to understand a parable from Jesus. I never saw that before! She knew she was unworthy but wasn’t too prideful for she accepted God’s love for her.
I like the contrast of being too prideful to see our need, verses being too down on ourself to accept God’s love-both are forms of pride. Our western culture is rights oriented which, in my view makes us want God for what He can give us and so we have more of a rightful assertiveness toward God, but I like Keller’s phrase of how God wants us to approach Him, with “rightless Assertiveness.”- Like the woman with the possessed daughter. She kept coming at Jesus-wouldn’t give up but it wasn’t with pride.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Jesus calls us to follow Him “into death”, and we must die to ourselves to find real life. I’ve been listening to some messages by Leslie Vernick, and she touched on this subject as well. She did point out that dying to ourselves does not mean to become nothing, to be ‘asleep’, unaware, or passive. She pointed out that Jesus was completely submitted to His Father’s will, yet Jesus was the most fully alive person who ever lived.
It also stands out to me what Dee said about how she realized that if she clung to her life and her dreams, what she thought would make her happy, she would lose her life in the end. This is a good reminder to me to examine myself and ask, what is it that I am clinging to? What is it that I believe will make me truly happy? Is it God, or something else?
As to the discussion from last week about is God disappointed with us, and Sylvia saying the better way to describe it is that He is grieved, I want to share what I learned from the book I’m reading, Tim Keller’s The Prodigal Prophet (about Jonah) for my book discussion group. We met yesterday and the chapter we were discussing touched on this as well. God is talking to Jonah about how Jonah had compassion for the plant, and God says that He has compassion for Ninevah. Keller said that the word used in these verses for “compassion” means to grieve over someone or something, to have your heart broken, to weep for it. God is saying that His compassion is for people, which Keller said is radical language because it is the language of attachment. Because God needs nothing and is perfectly happy in Himself, not ‘needing’ us, how could He get attached to us? Keller says that He loves only voluntarily. He voluntarily attaches His heart to us, meaning that the sadness of our condition makes Him sad; it affects Him. So I’m thinking, in a divine, mysterious way, our pain, my pain…my sin and the disaster it wreaks in my life, the condition of my heart…God is also bound-up with so that it affects Him, too. In a small, human way, I know the pit I’ve felt in my stomach when something is not going well for one of my children, or when they suffer the sting of their wrong actions and behavior. So with God, infinitely more does He feel it. My sin hurts Him because His heart is attached to mine.
2. Where have you surrendered to Him recently? What was the result?
My marriage is going through a rocky time right now, maybe precipitated by the stress of updating our kitchen. It is hard for us to be on the same page with decisions; he wants it done one way, I want it done the other way. He feels that he can never do anything right in my eyes, that I am a know-it-all. I feel he is too harsh with me. I wasn’t home fifteen minutes from Florida and we were fighting. I didn’t used to think that I had a problem with control, but I see that I do. I have a more perfectionist way; I want things done just so. It is hard to look truthfully at my idol of wanting control, because I want my opinion to count, too. I don’t think I have fully surrendered it yet.
Please everyone read the above from Susan! Soooo good. Relates to our discussion on God grieving over our sin.
Your comments are really helpful here, Susan. I appreciate what you are adding to the discussion about God having compassion on us, attaching himself to us — feeling sad; his heart bound to our.
Also, I appreciate your honesty about the rough time with your husband – being a ‘perfectionist’ and appearing to your husband like a “know-it-all”. We are doing home renovations as well. I too have a control idol; but it is hard to let go of control and at the same time “want my opinion to count”. Renovations are stressful. I can so identify with you in this.
This…”My sin hurts Him because His heart is attached to mine.” What a visual to remember!!
Love all of your post Susan!
Susan,
Thank you for this post. Reading it through tears.
Susan, thank you for always giving to us from your heart. I loved the picture of Jesus heart being bound to mine. This really puts things in perspective for me. I will also be praying for your marriage. For me when I want something done differently them my husband I kind of turn it around and put it in question form, like…’could we do it this way’ or something to make him think about what I really want to happen.
3. Read Mark 8:27-30
A. How did the disciples respond to Jesus’ question: “Who do people say that I am?”
They replied that some people said He was John the Baptist (I remember that Herod was convinced Jesus was John, come back from the dead), or perhaps He was Elijah, and others said one of the prophets.
B. Who do people say that He is today?
Jesus was a teacher, a good man, a man who started a religious upheaval or movement, an important historical figure.
C. When He directed the question to His disciples, who was the first to answer and what did he say?
Peter answered first, saying that Jesus is the Christ.
4. Read Mark 8:31-33
A. What shocking thing does He now tell them?
Now that Peter has rightly identified Him as the Messiah, Jesus plainly tells them that He is going to suffer, be rejected by the religious leaders, and be killed. After three days, He will rise again. He said this very clearly.
B. How does Peter respond, and why, do you think?
I’ve heard some commentators believe that Peter was thinking about their nation and how the Messiah was supposed to, in their minds, fix all the problems, throw off the yoke of the Romans, bring prosperity and such, yet maybe Peter’s initial reaction was a gut-level fear…Jesus was his friend, he loved Him, and maybe his initial reaction was NO NO NO! Out of feeling protective of Jesus, maybe fear of losing Him? Maybe a stop saying these things, Jesus…you’re going to stay right here and we’re going to continue on just as we have been.
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think?
It was kind of harsh…I don’t think Jesus was ‘calling’ Peter ‘Satan’, but rather unmasking the enemy’s deception here? Satan had tempted Jesus in the wilderness to protect Himself, to call off His mission. Satan is working on Peter here, wanting him to cling to Jesus, to say no, You’re not going to go through with this, I won’t let You. Could Peter have had a bit of relational idolatry here, with Jesus? Yes, Jesus was Peter’s Savior, yet Peter wanted to cling to Him so that he could feel safe and secure.
5. What insight does Daniel 7:13-14 give you into Jesus’ title “Son of Man”? Can you turn this Scripture into a praise of adoration?
Daniel sees a figure, “one like a son of man”, coming with the clouds of heaven. I think this is a vision of the humanity of Jesus, that He, though God, did become in appearance and in every way, like us; human. Yet it’s clear He’s not just an ordinary man because He approaches the “Ancient of Days” (and is accepted into His presence…not like us, because sinful man cannot approach). Then we see this son of man being given all authority, glory, and power, and he is worshipped by all peoples of every nation. He is given a kingdom that will never pass away.
Lord Jesus, you called yourself the son of man. It sounds humble, like you are reminding us that you are one of us, in one way. Yet you are God, and to you alone belongs all glory, power, honor, and worship. Thank you that I can put myself into your hands, knowing that you hold all things, and hold them well. You have all the control over everything, and you are everlasting. Help me to trust you, Jesus, and to keep this eternal kingdom of yours in mind to I can focus on what really matters.
I came across this quote by Puritan John Owen I wanted to share in light of our thoughts of receiving, believing God’s love for us. He is commenting on John 16:26-27 (“I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf; for the Father himself loves you”). Especially the thought of how my not believing His love for Him grieves Him:
Saith our Savior, “Take no care of that, nay, impose not that upon me, of procuring the Father’s love for you; but know that this is his peculiar respect towards you, and which you are in him: ‘He himself loves you.’ It is true, indeed (and as I told you), that I will pray the Father to send you the Spirit, the Comforter, and with him all the gracious fruits of his love; but yet in the point of love itself, free love, eternal love, there is no need of any intercession for that: for eminently the Father himself loves you. Resolve of that, that you may hold communion with him in it, and be no more troubled about it. Yea, as your great trouble is about the Father’s love, so you can no way more trouble or burden him, than by your unkindness in not believing of it.” So it must needs be where sincere love is questioned.
I love this Lizzy.
It brings to mind a childhood memory. My dad had told me I could not go to a party — I don’t remember the details. I still remember I was sitting on the floor of my walk-in closet and he was standing by the door. I told him that he didn’t love me. He astonished me by breaking down and weeping, telling me I meant everything to him.
oh Dee! What a perfect picture. That’s a treasure. And an inspiration as a parent. Your tender sweet dad. He sounds like Steve in that picture.
Thanks, Lizzy.
I read this Dee after reading Susan’s comment about God being attached to us..I can’t help but connect it with this. When we sin we tell God we don’t think He loves us and I think that grieves Him much deeper than we know and this tender scene with your dad is such an amazing picture of that.
This is good, Lizzy. I guess I’ve always thought that ‘I am accepted in the Beloved (Jesus)’…kind of like without Jesus, without being ‘in Him’, I would NOT have the Father’s love and acceptance. Hmmm…but maybe that’s not exactly what Owen is saying here? I assume he’s addressing the Christian, not the unbeliever? But this is standing out to me: “as your great trouble is about the Father’s love, so you can no way more trouble or burden him, than by your unkindness in not believing of it.”
Susan–I probably should have posted more context to this, but what I got from it is that my not believing His love for me, my doubting the depths of it or just how my own insecurities make it hard for me to fathom–this grieves Him. And that changes me, because it makes me remember that His loving me is all about who He is, not about me.
I haven’t been able to post much this week but as always I am loving your thoughtful wisdom. I’ve thought many times of the gift you are here and I think Julie explained it best–you share your heart with us.
Lizzy, I so agree with you and Julie about Susan. She is truly a gem here. Wise, humble and authentic.
7. Read “A Personal Necessity” in Chapter 8. A. What does Vanstone say is the difference between false love and true love?
False love is where you use the other person to fulfill your own happiness. Authentic love is where you are joyful because you fulfill the other persons needs regardless of how they treat you.
Tuesday7. Read “A Personal Necessity” in Chapter 8.
A. What does Vanstone say is the difference between false love and true love?
False love is all about yourself. Only loving others because they’re meeting your needs and affirming you. I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine. It’s non vulnerable so others can’t get too close and your ego isn’t hurt in case they don’t love or accept you.
True love is all about others. You love them because their happiness is what’s important regardless if it’s reciprocated. It’s vulnerable because you allow others to get close, not worrying about how your ego will be affected or if they may reject you.
B. When you look at your relationships, asking God to help you see, would you agree that “there’s a certain mercenary quality to your relationships?”
Sadly, yes. In looking at friendships over the years I’ve only allowed people to get close that I knew would accept me. And even still I keep myself at arms length. It seems that whenever I have gotten close to someone I’ve been hurt or rejected.
C. Keller says “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all.” If we believe that, it fills us up and helps us to love better. How has the Word (perhaps think of The Song of Songs) or the reality of Christ’s presence in your life helped you to love others better?
One thing that stood out to me in reading Mark 8:31 is Jesus saying He would be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes. His ministry didn’t depend on their acceptance of Him. Jesus knew the one and only person who affirmed Him and that was His Father and that is a good reminder for me today. The more I keep my eyes upward, knowing His love for me, the more I can extend that love outward to others and not let it become about me!
8. Read the note from the young woman in Keller’s church at the end of this section. Can you identify? Why or why not? Pray for yourself to move toward this kind of trust and true love.
Most definitely. I feel in her statement, “I am safe and protected and that protecting myself or standing up for myself is actually a good thing” that she was probably abused in some way. I understand that abuse can cause low self esteem, which in turn causes one to be a people pleaser. I could so identify with her saying, “His love has enabled me to set up emotional boundaries with people that I never could before.” I pray Lord that You would help me to love others with Your love.
It seems that whenever I have gotten close to someone I’ve been hurt or rejected.
I think you are so lovely, Sharon, this is hard to imagine, yet man is fickle, and so probably sooner or later a little betrayal will come. Do you think that is it?
Oh Dee, you are so sweet! I think man being fickle is part of it but I have to take some of the responsibility too. I believe I have gotten better lately and not worrying so much to please others but there’s always a twinge of mistrust. These studies have helped me so much!!
So glad!!
7. Read “A Personal Necessity” in Chapter 9.
A. What does Vanstone say is the difference between false love and true love? – “In false love your aim is to use the other person to fulfill your happiness. Your love is conditional. In true love your aim is to spend yourself and use yourself for the happiness of the other, becuase your greatest joy is that person’s joy. Your affection is unconditional.”
B. When you look at your relationships, asking God to help you see, would you agree that “there’s a certain mercenary quality to your relationships?” – I would have to agree. I truly do love unconditionally for a time, but then I get discouraged, emotionally drained, when there is nothing coming back to me to fill my tank up again. I then step back and hold back a complete unconditional love that I should be giving that person.
C. Keller says “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all.” If we believe that, it fills us up and helps us to love better. How has the Word (perhaps think of The Song of Songs) or the reality of Christ’s presence in your life helped you to love others better? – It has come to make me realize that if I can’t give unconditional love at all times, I’m expecting too much out of those I love because they won’t be able to either. I need to always remember that the only one that can give unconditional love and need nothing back from me is Jesus. He is always there to comfort and embrace me, to walk beside me even though I may have not loved him completely that day.
8. Read the note from the young woman in Keller’s church at the end of this section. Can you identify? Why or why not? Pray for yourself to move toward this kind of trust and true love. – I think to some extent I can agree, but at times and with certain people I feel I need to have them know that I’m not happy with them instead of just getting the love they lack to give me from Jesus. I need to get to the point that she did, where I set boundaries up with those who have hurt me, and still love them unconditionally and be swept away in Jesus’ love for me. I need to not take things so seriously, but still find a way to stick up for myself, like she does. This is a very helpful section of the book for me. It helps me to realize that those who can’t love me are just like me when I can’t love them. I have to step aside and let Jesus be in front when these feelings come up.
Very wise from Julie:
I think to some extent I can agree, but at times and with certain people I feel I need to have them know that I’m not happy with them instead of just getting the love they lack to give me from Jesus. I need to get to the point that she did, where I set boundaries up with those who have hurt me, and still love them unconditionally and be swept away in Jesus’ love for me. I need to not take things so seriously, but still find a way to stick up for myself, like she does
7 A. The difference between false love and true love: False love is the kind of love that is needy-using the other person to fulfill your needs. True love is the love in which I desire to see the other person joyful because that gives me joy!
B. Yes, it seems that is true, I look for my needs to be fulfilled…
C. Yes, I believe that Christ’s presence in my life does help me to love others better, to desire others’ happiness and see them fulfilled.
Today a woman told me, “I would be glad to get the Coronavirus and die.” My heart breaks for her because she must be very lonely and I am sure she needs Christ’s love. My desire is to pray for her heart to be open for the gospel and that I might find the right approach for her need.
I found it very shocking for her to say this openly to me. She goes to Tai Chi class with me and seems very insecure.
8. The woman in Keller’s church shared her confession of the idol of people pleasing and that her identification with Christ has enabled her to set emotional boundaries with people. She can love family and friends for who they are and not seek more from them. This is a wonderful testimony to Christ’s love!
Wow — sounds like you have a mission field opening up to you there, Shirley. Will pray for you and this woman!
Wednesday
9. Read a Legal Necessity in Keller’s book and explain why Jesus had to die.
In order for forgiveness to take place there must be suffering.
10. Read A Cosmic Necessity in Keller’s book and explain how Jesus won through losing.
”He didn’t take power; He gave it up – and yet He triumphed.”
I continue to ponder this section as comprehension has never been my strong suit.
11. Is there anything else in these two sections that stood out to you? If so, what and why?
In the first section what stood out to me was, when you approach someone when they have wronged you with vengeance in your heart, they probably won’t listen to you. Oh, so true!!
In the second section this hit me, “The cross reveals the systems of the world to be corrupt, serving power and oppression instead of justice and truth.” Yet Jesus defeated that system…to me the cross now reveals victory, justice and truth.
B. When you look at your relationships, asking God to help you see, would you agree that “there’s a certain mercenery quality to your relationships?”
I had to look up the word “mercenary,” to really understand what you are getting at. I do think I try to gain something for myself in some relationships, but not all. I think the ones that I am closer to are the ones that are affected more that way. I’m thinking of my daughter and my husband. Children reflect our family and her actions definitely DO NOT reflect the values of our family. I want her to be more like us. It is for my gain. Close friends are different for me. I don’t really try to gain something from them, I just enjoy being around them and relish in our likeness. I suppose that could be gain for me, however if I didn’t have it I would be ok with that too. My husband is a wonderful, caring, tolerant man. He does help me often get through the weeks with the toddlers and my jobs. He usually doesn’t complain. I would suffer greatly if he didn’t help me. I gain more when he helps; my life is less stressful.
C. Keller says “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all.” If we believe that, it fills us up and helps us to love better. How has the Word (perhaps think of The Song of Songs) or the reality of Christ’s presence in your life helped you to love others better?
Christ reminds me of how I should treat people always. It is hard, especially in those close relationships. Funny isn’t it? I should be better with those that are closest to me, but I’m worse!
Laura–glad I wasn’t the only one to look up “mercenary”! 🙂
8. Read the note from the young woman in Keller’s church at the end of this section. Can you identify? Why or why not? Pray for yourself to move toward this kind of trust and true love.
Kind of…I don’t need something from them if I have Christ. I did have a friend once, whom I thought I couldn’t live without. When she moved far away I thought I would die because I missed her so much. At the time I didn’t have Jesus as I do now. I turned my attention elsewhere and healed over time. I learned many years later (from Dee!) that I had made an idol of my friend. I am better now, except for those close family relationships….
As always, Laura, so appreciate your vulnerability.
Dee,
Thank you for recommending the “We Wonder” Lent podcasts. I’ve recommended them to the parents of my grandchildren. They may have been designed for children, but Sarah Dahl’s beautiful and gentle podcasts have been probing my heart.
This excerpt from today’s episode:
“…… I wonder if I have ever felt lost, or separated, or alone? Are there places I go where I don’t feel safe or at home? Do I need to tell someone I love? Can I talk to God about that feeling?
Have I ever found something I have loved, and lost? Can I remember what that felt like on the inside? I wonder if God feels exactly that way about me?
I wonder if I can be still right now, and trust that God will seek me out? Can I ask God to help me wait and hope, because I know that he is loving and good?
Kind God, all of us are like sheep. We have wandered away from you. But you are like the shepherd, who will look until you find us. Help us to wait, and watch, and hope to be found. “
We Wonder Lent Podcast: https://www.wewonderpod.com/
I thought it so good today too, Nila. I felt she got off to a slower start with the first episodes and I think my grandchildren got discouraged, but I’m encouraging them to listen today. So good!
I agree Dee, I understand she wants children to know how to be still. It is good. But, I missed the Bible stories each day. It confused me at first. Today she had one. I was so happy.
Glad to know it wasn’t just me, Laura!
A Legal Necessity When someone wrongs you, there is a price that must be paid. Either the person pays or you have to pay it yourself. If it is an economic price, that is one thing. However sometimes when you are wronged, you will never get back what was taken- perhaps it is your reputation or your happiness. If you try to even the score, then evil wins. The alternative is to forgive, but there is a price for that. Instead of making the other person suffer, you will pay the cost and suffer. That is the only possible way of righting the wrong. I had never gone through this thought process before. Knowing that forgiveness is needed, yet never counting the cost and the suffering.
So God says, “The only way I can forgive the sins of the human race is to suffer. Sin always entails a penalty.”
I agree, Shirley — this concept is so helpful.
A Cosmic Necessity: Jesus’ death had to be a violent one… Hebrews 9:22 ” without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin.”
Yes, and Jesus was betrayed by the religious leaders and the Roman rulers. But he won by losing, he turned the values of the world on their head. Because he did not take power but gave it up. So death has lost its sting. Now through my forgiveness, I do not fear death. I can approach Jesus and cling to him!
This is what stands out to me! The worst thing that can happen to me is the best thing! Jesus’ love is absolutely true love!
Wednesday: Winning Through Losing
9. Read a Legal Necessity in Keller’s book and explain why Jesus had to die. – “Jesus had to die because it was the only way to forgive the sins of the human race. He paid the debt and forgave us and did not take revenge on us. He showed true forgiven which comes with suffering.”
10. Read A Cosmic Necessity in Keller’s book and explain how Jesus won through losing. – “he achieved our forgiveness on the cross by turning the values of the world on their head.” He gave up his power instead of taking it. The corruption and the spell that was over the world was finally broken.
11. Is there anything else in these two sections that stood out to you? If so, what and why? – On page 110 where Keller talks refraining from vengeance and paying the cost of forgiveness, this will get peoples attention and make them listen more to you. Jesus did this exact thing for me. Seeing what he went through on the cross, the suffering he did for me, got rid of the guilt I had in my life. He paid for that. On page 111, I did not realize what the term blood meant in the Bible, “a life given or taken before it’s natural end.” This is why Jesus’ death was so violent “Hebrews 9.22-without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin.” And what hope this gives me when my death is near, “Death will put you in God’s arms and make you all you hoped to be. And when death loses it sting, when death no longer has power over you because of what Jesus did on the cross, then you will be living a life of love and not a life of fear.” Oh thank you Jesus for the pain and suffering you endured for me. There is no fear in death any longer. Your arms will be waiting for me when my time is done.
I missed what you brought out about the term blood — so interesting!
3. Read Mark 8:27-30
A. How did the disciples respond to Jesus’ question: “Who do people say that I am?” They list out the opinions of the people, all of which are prophets and Jews with ‘power’ and respect.
B. Who do people say that He is today? So many different opinions… a good man, a fable, a liar…. however many people make their conclusions based off of limited knowledge.
C. When He directed the question to His disciples, who was the first to answer and what did he say? Peter answered first and said He was the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
4. Read Mark 8:31-33
A. What shocking thing does He now tell them? That He must suffer and die and be raised again.
B. How does Peter respond, and why, do you think? Peter responds by taking Jesus aside and rebuking him… I think this was a mix of protection for Jesus and his ministry as well as a sense of, “This isn’t a part of a successful messiah’s story.” It May have been Peter trying to encourage Christ just as we sometimes deny bad things with friends to attempt boosting their spirits…
C. What does Jesus say to Peter, and why, do you think? Jesus rebukes Peter calling Him the devil, “ Satan” …. I watched a Bible project video on the Satan and I think I remember something about being a questioner and accuser… some say the devil was in Peter but I wonder if Christ was using the term to illuminate his heart attitude that was also present in the fall of man…thinking we know better than God, thinking our own desires are more worthy than The Father’s desires.
5. What insight does Daniel 7:13-14 give you into Jesus title “Son of Man?” Can you turn this Scripture into a praise of adoration? Son of man is the one presented to the ancient of days and will be given eternal dominion. Jesus, all glory to you, all praise to you, the one who rules over a unified diversity, who speaks to all nations. You will rule forever! You nor your kingdom shall pass away! Amen.
4C …… continued …..
Jesus and Peter were speaking in private. Jesus rebuked *after* turning and seeing his disciples… what triggered in Christ’s thoughts in seeing his disciples that then led to the rebuke? Did he have hope for Peter to not struggle as all the disciples did with the bread and the storms? Thought provoking….
I’ve noticed too, Jill, how often He singles out Peter. That too is thought-provoking!
Jill,
Amen to this: Jesus, all glory to you, all praise to you, the one who rules over a unified diversity, who speaks to all nations. You will rule forever! You nor your kingdom shall pass away!
9. Read a Legal Necessity in Keller’s book and explain why Jesus had to die.
Someone has to pay the price for a sin. When you are sinned upon either you or the person who sinned has to pay. If you accept the sin and forgive, the other person “gets off” and you pay the price. If you don’t accept the sin then you are perpetrating the cycle of injustice by also being harsh and cruel. Evil wins. There is nothing easy about real forgiveness though. You forgive and it hurts you. Only if you pay the price is there a chance to right the wrong. You stop the madness; break the cycle.
Thursday 12. Read Mark 8:34-9:1
A. To whom is Jesus speaking?
A crowd of people and the disciples.
B. What does He tell them is required in a disciple?
He must deny himself, take up his cross and follow Him.
C. Some say you can be saved yet not a disciple. What evidence is there in the text to cast doubt on that?
I think verse 35 makes it quite clear, if you try to hang on to your life (rather than deny it) you will lose it. But if you give up your life (deny it) for His sake and the gospel you will save it. The two go hand in hand.
D. Find all the reasons you can that Jesus gives for “losing your life.”
To be His follower. To be in His will (giving up my own way and taking up my cross). For His sake and the sake of the gospel. To know the worth of my own soul. So I will not be ashamed of Him and His message.
13. N. T. Wright asks this good question: “How have you seen in your life and in others’ lives that “if you want to save your life, you’ll lose it, but if you lose your life because of me and the Message, you’ll save it?”
The best examples I can give are my parents and my husbands parents. Their focus in life was to serve Him at all cost. My parents sacrificed so much to obey His calling them to the mission field. They took four kids to a place in Africa they’d never been before with only the promise of support and total dependence upon Him. The ministry of my husbands parents was lived out in total abandonment to Him, to follow Him to whatever church needed a pastor and to serve in humility.
No big story in my life but being in His Word, seeking His will and direction for my life and right now, being available for my grandchildren…teaching them about the things of the Lord.
14. If Christ leads us into danger, why should we not dread the loss of our lives?
Our lives no longer belong to us, they belong to Him…we may die physically but what joy to be with Him eternally.
15. Using this passage, pray for yourself and those close to you.
Lord, may I daily die to self, take up my cross and follow You. To give up my life for Your sake and the sake of the gospel and not be ashamed, knowing that giving my life completely to You is where I’ll find security, love and eternal life. I will confess that I cannot do this in my own strength, so I ask the Holy Spirit to meet me here today…fill me up! Amen
What wonderful parents!
Thursday: A Way of The Cross
12. Read Mark 8:34-9:1
A. To whom is Jesus speaking? – It looks like he is speaking to everyone that is around him at the time.
B. What does He tell them is required in a disciple? – I love the Message version of these verses. It says “Anyone who intends to come with me has to let me lead. You’re not in the driver’s seat; I am. Don’t run from suffering; embrace it.”
C. Some say you can be saved yet not a disciple. What evidence is there in the text to cast doubt on that? – Is it verse 38 where Jesus talks about not speaking of him in front of fickle friends that we will be an even bigger embarrassment to the Son of Man when he arrives in all splendor of God, his Father, with an army of holy angels. Those that are ashamed will still see Him but will be held accountable for their actions.
D. Find all the reasons you can that Jesus gives for “losing your life.” – From the Message…self-sacrifice is the only way and is Jesus’ way to saving our true selves. If we got everything we wanted, we would lose the real person we are. And there is nothing that would be worth selling our souls for, but Him.
13. N. T. Wright asks this good question: “How have you seen in your life and in others’ lives that “if you want to save your life, you’ll lose it, but if you lose your life because of me and the Message, you’ll save it?” – For me, my cries out to the Lord to help me get rid of me and to find the me he created when I asked him in to my life has given me a lighter load in my soul. I’m a much freer person then I was before. But I had to want to give myself up to Him in order to get to the feeling I have now. For my husband, who is a recovering alcoholic for over 30 years now, found out after the third time in rehab that he needed help from someone much more powerful then he was to get over the drinking. That third time, he got down on his knees in his room and cried out to the Lord to help him and to take the desire away. He never had another drink after that night. But he had to get to the point of helplessness in order to see that he needed Jesus to help him. I’m so grateful that he helped both of us, or I know we would not be together today.
14. If Christ leads us into danger, why should we not dread the loss of our lives? – He tells us he will help us, be with us and he will show us how to get through the suffering if we follow him.
15. Using this passage, pray for yourself and those close to you. – Lord help me and my family and friends to not give up our souls for anything but you. Help us to see the worthless things, that appear to us as things we want but don’t need so we can cast them aside and find you standing behind the idol like images. There is nothing in this world Lord but you that is worth anything we would desire. Help to feel your presence in our lives as we go through the suffering, help to know that you are there with us. We want only you Lord, help us to see that. In Jesus Name Amen.
12He makes this important statement., “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. He also says, “If anyone is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation,
of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes,,,”
To be a disciple one must be ready to deny himself. D. Reasons for losing your life:1. that what you gain will result in forfeiting your soul, Jesus will be ashamed of you when he returns, and that is the ultimate loss I would say. Another reason is that there is nothing to give in return for one’s soul.
C. Some say you can be saved yet not be a disciple- I am not sure about the evidence in the text other than the above requirement.
13. Evidence seen in my life-if I lose my life I will save it.I am thinking that when I put Christ first above my own desires, and seek His will, then I find that all things seem to fall into place. Others that I know are in God’s will find joy in spite of difficult circumstances. I look at my friend, Bernice, and she is a great example to me. She has been through some difficult losses in her family, but is one of the kindest, compassionate woman I know. She is a true disciple, speaking honestly from her heart.
14. If Christ leads us into danger, we should not dread the loss of our lives. I believe the best outcome is to be with Him in glory, to honor Him through every circumstance. I say this easily because I have not been through deep valleys and really tested, but I have been through some hard times when I knew He was giving me strength.
Pray for yourself and those close to you: Father God, Your words touch me deeply as I am aware of the selfishness in my life. Cleanse me of the desires I have, show me the ways I wander from this goal of denying myself, let me be willing to take up my cross and following you wherever you lead. I pray for my family,and for my Christian friends to embrace this truth, to be your disciples and not ever having shame in the suffering you endured for us. Thank you for being willing to pay the price that my sins could be forgiven and the gift of eternal life be assured. I pray for boldness to speak as you lead me, to always desire to be salt and light where I am. Thank you, Father.All glory and honor to you. In the name of Jesus, I pray.
6. Read the opening of chapter 8 in Keller’s book, up to “A Personal Necessity” and share any comments or questions.
I appreciated Keller’s explanation of the meaning of “Son of Man” by referencing Daniel 7. I never quite understood why Jesus called himself that, unless it just meant that he identified with humanity as He was truly human, too. It stood out to me that Jesus so emphatically stressed that He must die…”I have to die”. Not that well, this is how it will all end. So it was pre-planned.
7. Read A “Personal Necessity” in Chapter 8.
A. What does Vanstone say is the difference between false love and true love?
False love: I am using the other to get my needs met. They need to make me happy. It is conditional; I will give love to them only as long as they are meeting my needs and affirming me. I’m not really invested and vulnerable so that I can walk away if they’re not meeting my needs.
True love: I am more focused on the happiness of the other, on giving of myself to them. Their joy makes me joyful. It is unconditional. I will continue to love the other even if they’re not capable of meeting my needs. It is vulnerable love.
B. When you look at your relationships, asking God to help you see, would you agree that “there’s a certain mercenary quality to your relationships?”
I also had to look at the definition of ‘mercenary’. So it means that my primary concern is to get something or profit in some way at the expense of others. It means that I will serve merely for my own advantage. I don’t think that I do that…I hope that I’m not just deceiving myself? I guess that I do expect some kind of reciprocity in my marriage or in a friendship, meaning that it’s a mutual give-and-take. I understand there are times when either myself or the other may not be able to ‘give’…for any number of reasons, and that’s okay. Relationships flow back and forth and aren’t always ‘equal’. But I don’t feel that I ‘target’ a person for what they can give me.
C. Keller says “what we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all.” If we believe that, it fills us up and helps us to love better. How has the Word (perhaps think of The Song of Songs) or the reality of Christ’s presence in your life helped you to love others better?
I am very blessed to have a close, loving relationship with my daughter. I love her, and I know she loves me. Yet I keep this in the back of my mind, and we have had conversations about this, that only Jesus can promise never to leave us, to always be there for us. She just came home from college this week as the campus is closing due to the coronavirus. While I’m happy to have her home, I know she’d rather be at school with her friends, and involved in her classes and activities. I told her that these are not the circumstances I want for her either, and I understand. It doesn’t have anything to do with her love for me; this is her time of life to grow and learn. I have told her that “mom will be okay”…I never want to hold her back from pursuing her dreams by clinging to her or being dependent upon her. I know I need to learn more how to depend and rely upon Jesus. As I posted above, the discussion this week at my book group really opened my eyes to a beautiful part of God’s character, how He chooses to attach His heart to ours.
Susan — I see so much growth in you in this area and I also so rejoice in how that has impacted your daughter!
10. Read A Cosmis Necessity in Keller’s book and explain how Jesus won through losing.
Jesus won because He forgave those who killed Him. He stopped the madness, the evil. The disgusting world was revealed. He didn’t fight it He paid for it, for us. How could anyone not accept that? His payment. Thank You Lord!
12. Read Mark 8:34-9:1
A. To whom is Jesus speaking?
He is speaking to a crowd of people and the disciples.
B. What does He tell them is required in a disciple?
They must lose their lives to save their souls. They must follow by giving up their own way, take up their cross and follow Him.
C. Some say you can be saved yet not a disciple. What evidence is there in the text to cast doubt on that?
He says you can’t be saved if you don’t follow Him. He says, “if you give up your life for the sake of me then you will save it.”
8. Read the note from the young woman in Keller’s church at the end of this section. Can you identify? Why or why not? Pray for yourself to move toward this kind of trust and true love.
I can identify with this: “It’s been a huge relief to finally feel free enough to love people and know that in Christ, I am safe and protected…” (And I also identified with the opening statement about needing approval, needing to be liked, admired, accepted.) I am continuing to work on this, my need for approval/affirmation and just wanting to feel accepted. This reminds me so much of what Dee wrote in Idol Lies in the chapter about relational idolatry (I think it was Christy’s story)
I want to feel deep down secure in Jesus’ love and acceptance for me. For as long as I can remember, much of my life, really, I have had a feeling of being inadequate and that somehow, I need others to be enough, to be “okay”, to be accepted. That there’s something basically wrong with me that I need others to somehow “fix”. I will pray more for myself in this area, for God to help me. I’ve just begun reading a book by Trevor Hudson called Beyond Loneliness: The Gift of God’s Friendship.
Let us know how you like Hudson’s book. I haven’t heard of it.
9. Read A Legal Necessity in Keller’s book and explain why Jesus had to die.
Sin and evil always result in a debt that must be paid. This is a legal matter. For forgiveness to be granted, someone has to pay the price. God gives every person a choice; either you will pay the price, or He will pay your price. Granting forgiveness involves suffering, absorbing the cost. God chose to take it upon Himself to absorb the cost, to make Himself the guilty one. We owe God a debt that we cannot pay; the good news is that He has paid it for us. It seems, at first, unfair to think that someone ‘gets off for free’ for the bad things they’ve done, but in reality, no sin goes unpunished. Jesus was punished for it ALL.
10. Read A Cosmic Necessity in Keller’s book and explain how Jesus won through losing.
It seems in the world’s eyes that Jesus’ death was a failure; a failure of ‘the system’ to behave justly. Instead, the system caved-in to corruption, power, and oppression. Despite all this, when Jesus died on the cross, He broke the “hold of the world” in its bankruptcy on us. He defeated sin and death and won our forgiveness and gave us a place in God’s Kingdom. Of course, all of these things that He was doing were “invisible” to the eyes. We don’t have to fear death anymore. For the Christian, death is like “Honey, get up!”
11. Is there anything else in these two sections that stood out to you? If so, what and why?
In the part on forgiveness, Keller talked about how if you confront someone who has wronged you while you still have vengeance in your heart, it won’t work, because the other person will just reject everything you’re saying, and the cycle of retaliation will continue. I think that’s a good argument for the times when there has to be a cooling-off period before you discuss the situation. I like Psalm 4 where it says do not sin in your anger; when you are in your bed, search your own heart and be silent.
14. If Christ leads us into danger, why should we not dread the loss of our lives?
If we lose our lives, we fall into Jesus’ arms. This question is totally appropriate to the danger we find ourselves in with the global pandemic. I and many others have spent the last few days immersing myself in lots of news and advice about what is happening and how to react to COVID-19.
15. Using this passage, pray for yourself and those close to you.
Father, in this time of global pandemic, my inclination is to protect myself and totally avoid others. Help me, Lord, to be wisely cautious and follow good health advice; but also to be aware of the needs of those around me, to deny my selfish needs and take up my cross and follow you, whatever that means for me in this situation. Help me to be kind. Help me to risk loving others in ways that are safe or even not safe, when that is called for. Help me, as the mother and grandmother and primary caregiver to many, be generous and sacrificial in my caregiving. Give me strength, courage, love and peace in the midst of confusion and uncertainty and fear. Help me to totally trust you, for you came to earth because you loved us. You breathed our air full of germs and diseases, so you can identify with us in our distress. You promise that you will be with us always, and, in the end, you will rescue us from earth and welcome us into your presence.
Amen Diane. Love to you.
D. Find all the reasons you can that Jesus gives for “losing your life.”
If you try to hang on to your life you will lose it.
If you give up your life for Him you will save your life.
You will not lose your soul.
The Son of Man will not be ashamed of you.
Some amongst Him would not die before they got to see the kingdom redeemed (I think?).
13. N. T. Wright asks this good question: “How have you seen in your life and in others’ lives that “if you want to save your life, you’ll lose it, but if you lose your life because of me and the Message, you’ll save it?”
When I am in tune with Him I feel secure, I am happier, I care more about people, I am a good person, etc. I have a life.
14. If Christ leads us into danger, why should we not dread the loss of our lives?
Because we have Him. Forever.
15. Using this passage, pray for yourself and those close to you.
Oh Lord thank You for giving Your life for me, my family, and my friends. Help us be strong and accept Your ways, so that we may have You forever. Please remind us that we are Yours first, and of this world second. We don’t want to lose our souls; no one wants that. But, this life is hard and we forget You. I am sorry. Let us see Your glory before we die. In Your Holy Name I pray. Amen.
7. Read “A Personal Necessity” in Chapter 8. A. What does Vanstone say is the difference between false love and true love?
false love: conditional and non-vulnerable; use the other person to make yourself happy; love is given only if you are affirmed and your needs are met
true love: unconditional and vulnerable; pouring yourself out for the joy of another; you love regardless of whether your own needs are met
B. When you look at your relationships, asking God to help you see, would you agree that “there’s a certain mercenary quality to your relationships?”
I am a helper by nature. Love to help. But I have recently realized that deep within there is a still a longing to be appreciated for what I do…sometimes I can even become bitter when I feel I have poured myself out for another…but I will also say, on that note, I have 2 close relationships in my life, and as I write that I think also of my sisters, but with these 2 all I can do is pour out to them and I now know to expect nothing in return, and yet He keeps calling me to pour. I pray to become more and more filled with Him, dependent only on His love, so that I may truly learn to love without conditions.
C. Keller says “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all.” If we believe that, it fills us up and helps us to love better. How has the Word (perhaps think of The Song of Songs) or the reality of Christ’s presence in your life helped you to love others better?
Last weekend I spent a night away alone, no technology, just to read and pray. I’ve done this several times in the past, my soul seems to crave it at least once a year. I never want to be away from my family, but there comes a time when I am desperate to get alone with God and not be “needed” by anyone. I can be freed up of distractions and duties and just soak in the love of the One who doesn’t need me at all.
8. Read the note from the young woman in Keller’s church at the end of this section. Can you identify? Why or why not? Pray for yourself to move toward this kind of trust and true love.
I do relate to this and feel encouraged by it, praying I am moving closer and closer to this kind of assurance.
Lizzy — this is so hard and yet so like Jesus:
all I can do is pour out to them and I now know to expect nothing in return, and yet He keeps calling me to pour.