Though it is extremely rare for a fool to come to his senses,
it has happened, for nothing is impossible with God.
The common variable seems to be pain.
So though our natural response is often to shield “our” fool
from his choices, that is not how God has parented us.
When His first two children rebelled,
He “kicked them out of the house.”
When Israel would not stop their idolatry,
He had them taken captive for seventy years by the Babylonians.
His goal was to lead them to true repentance, faith, and healing.
It was tough love.
I’ve received questions during this series on the difference
between a prodigal, a fool, and mental illness — and there are differences.
A prodigal does know the Lord, but has drifted away.
A true fool may pretend to know the Lord, but I will explain why I feel sure he could not.
And mental illness is a whole different category.
Let me tell you a story.
When we adopted Annie, our eleven year old daughter Sally went into a deep clinical depression: not eating, not sleeping, and weeping all the time. She told me she felt “rudely displaced and unloved.” I was exasperated, for I felt I had loved her with my whole heart. I said to Steve, “We have poured love out on this child, why can’t she just snap out of it?”
Steve said, “Would you tell someone who had the flu to “snap out of it?”
We took Sally to a child psychiatrist who felt quite sure that she had a chemical imbalance that revealed itself under this stress. He explained to me: God has put endorphins into our cells to be released under stress, but someone with a chemical imbalance had a thicker membrane around his cells, and the endorphins can’t get out. He drew a picture of a cell and the membrane wall.
He then explained that what an anti-depressant does is thin that wall so that the endorphins can get out. For Sally, it was the answer. She began eating, sleeping, and returning to her joyful self. She also then, and only then, was able to repent of her selfishness. At a Christian concert the singer said, “Do you have yuk in your heart you cannot get rid of? Come up and repent and ask the Lord for help.” Sally practically ran up the aisle. But Sally needed physical help before she could get spiritual help, and then Sally and Annie became close.
Though some of the same techniques may apply to mental illness, I would first advise professional help. I feel it is in a different category and I am certainly not equipped to advise. I also realize that some with mental illness will not take their meds and there are some mental illnesses that have not yet been helped by meds. So certainly discernment is needed from the Spirit in these cases — you may not feel led to let them go, but you may need emotional detachment.
But for the prodigal and the fool, help may be found from a book and video series our own Lizzy introduced me to: Letting Go.
Paul Tripp recommends this book, explaining that “Letting go” may bring a fool or a prodigal to the point of hopelessness, and “hopelessness is the only doorway to real and lasting hope.”
Because we are in a holiday week, we’ll spread this important lesson out over two weeks.
WEEK ONE: (4TH OF JULY WEEK) HOW GOD PARENTS US
Sunday:
- What stands out to you from the above and why?
- How have you seen God at work in the last twenty-four hours?
Monday: Can a True Fool Be A True Believer?
Some of you have questioned this, and I think it is wise to ponder, for I don’t think it is possible to be both a true believer and a true fool. I believe this for a true believer has seen his sin and repented but a fool never feels the need to repent for he is “never wrong.” Also, I John tells us that “one born of God does not keep on sinning, for God’s seed is in him, and he cannot keep sinning.”
But sometimes it is hard to know if someone is a believer or not. Even Jesus warned us not to make that judgment for a wheat and a tare look very much alike. Some pretend to repent. Some display what seems to be fruit, but is part of his deception. They may memorize verses or participate in church. In “Letting Go” the authors write: “No need to be a card-carrying atheist to be a fool. You can believe that God exists but still reject him as the authority over your life.” James tells us the demons believe God exists, and yet they are not true believers. Words alone are not evidence of genuine faith — you should see fruit. But I am open to discussion on this, and invite you to share your thoughts.
3. What do you think Psalm 14:1 means?
4. What about 1 John 3:9?
5. Do you think a fool can be a child of God? Support your answer scripturally if possible.
Tuesday-Wednesday: What Tends to Awaken Fools and Prodigals
Again and again it seems it is pain. That is what brought the younger son to his senses. And Jan Silvious has told me that sometimes a great public humiliation will bring a fool to his senses. This brings me to the first lecture I’d like you to hear from “Letting Go.” It has to do with how God parents us. Go to this link and watch the first video.
6. Notes and comments from Video 1?
Thursday/Friday: 4th and 5th of July
I’d like to take a little break here to pray for our country, using the following Scriptures. You can pray silently or write your prayers after the Scriptures. Feel also to simply pour our your heart as well.
2 Chronicles 7:14 – if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
Psalms 2:10-11 – Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear and celebrate his rule with trembling.
Proverbs 11:14 – For lack of guidance a nation falls, but victory is won through many advisers.
Proverbs 21:1 – The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will.
Saturday:
7. What is your take-a-way and why?
WEEK TWO: WEEK OF JULY 7TH
This is our final session on the fool in proverbs, and I thought this Session 3 video very helpful. It is a testimony from a husband and wife where the wife had to exercise “tough love” to bring her husband to his senses. They had to be separated for 5 months, for as seems common, it took time.
Sunday:
- How did you see God move in your life over the last week. Did something stand out in particular? If so, why?
Monday-Tuesday
2. Share your notes and comments on session 3.
3. Share a recent God Hunt!
Wednesday-Thursday
4. Share your notes and comments on Session 4.
5. Do you have a recent God Hunt?
Friday-Saturday
6. What do you want to remember from our study of the fool and why?
7. How did this study personally impact you?
132 comments
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? The discussion on anti-depressants. I wish there was a way to test whether or not a person needed these just like we can test if a person needs iron. Just like with conventional meds some people take them to solve a problem that they should be addressing themselves with discipline and growth and others refuse to take them thinking the way they feel/act is normal and that they will eventually “snap out of it” when they have achieved maturity. It is such a balance in our lives to know when to ask for help and when to be persistent in our efforts. Both require humility (though there can be pride in trying to work our way out of a slump/depression). I have wondered if in some these meds would mask hurt rather than truly heal it? Or they simply allow one to cope better with the process of healing…
Also – to let go of a fool and be disconnected…. so so much harder than it sounds when you have been entangled for years and years… seems like a betraying move…and while I know it is not that feeling can be a large hurdle to the hardest step- the first step. Being entangled with a fool for so long can easily lead to co-dependency… changing how you think of your identity and depending on them for your emotions.
2. How have you seen God at work in the last twenty-four hours? It is gorgeous here in Montana. I am spending every free moment outside breathing deeply and rejoicing in the goodness of His creation. It is much needed peace to my stress-filled mind/heart.
Jill — it is hard to know on whether they really need it or not — though psychiatrists have experience. But there is a relatively new DNA test that shows which meds (from anti-depressants to anti-biotics) that shows which work best with your system. If insurance covers this very expensive test at all, they usually make you try a couple before doing this. One of our children, who has had terrible side-effects with anti-depressants finally had the DNA test and found one that worked. A marvelous gift!
Jill, I so get what you are saying here. We are dealing with a prodigal daughter who is also struggling with depression. At times, I feel such guilt for not being a good mother (the enemy’s words) or not being a more knowledgeable nurse (the enemy’s words as well). I look at the past and see my co-dependency on my daughter and trying to let go and detach is hard after many years of unhealthy interactions. So thankful God has led me here and even though I sometimes have regrets God is helping me to see that He is giving me another “chance” to repent and change my ways. It has not been easy but I see Him at work in my heart and my daughter’s as well.
Glad that God’s creation is giving you peace these days.
Jill, I’m just going back and reading some entries I missed and realized how good this one is of yours…duh!
Yes, a test would be great! I have taken my kids to so many counselors and decided I trust none. Nothing worked, nothing helped. I recently (past year) decided to ask my pastor for a Christian counselor and found one for myself because I was starting to think I was crazy with my daughters situation (thinking they were right and I was wrong…getting sucked into their crazy drama filled world). I think I have struggled with depression, but never do I take any medication (even Tylenol) because it scares me; especially the brain meds. It’s interesting you say asking for help is a humility/pride thing, I hadn’t thought of that before. Thanks for the thoughtful post! Love that you are enjoying the outdoor beauty too!
What stood out to me was :
Paul Tripp recommends this book, explaining that “Letting go” may bring a fool or a prodigal to the point of hopelessness, and “hopelessness is the only doorway to real and lasting hope.”
So hard, as Jill said, to disentangle from a fool when relationship has gone on for years. So hard to use tough love, yet enabling & being co-dependent is the alternative. I’m in the midst of all this & it is very hard, but necessary. Praying one day at a time that the Lord will continue to give me clarity, discernment, courage & conviction.
I’m glad we have 2 weeks for this cause I’ll be working every day this week & next w’end! Nurses have to take their turn for holidays!
Bless the nurses. Bless you!
And praying for wisdom and clarity for you.
God Hunt for today: A pastor friend who knows about all the struggles we have gone through with extended family ( death of my brother, health issues with my mother, dysfunctional family issues), the death of a son 30 years ago, and the upcoming medical procedure my youngest son will be having in 3 weeks (a bone marrow transplant) told my husband and me – “Thank you” this morning. I looked at him confused and said, “Thank you for what?” He said, “For going through all of this and not walking away from the Lord.” Those were the sweetest words I have heard in a long time. I know the Lord spoke them to my heart and to my husband’s heart. Both of us teared up.
How precious that God thanked us for being faithful to him through this friend’s kind and loving words.
Sooooo true, Tanya. So good to have that kind of faith modeled in a fallen world!
Tanya, thank you for sharing what your pastor said. I am in a low spot right now and needed a push.
This is such a good study for me. God is so good.
2. God hunt: I have asked God to show me some things about someone and He is.
3. What do you think Psalm 14:1 means? A fool has no good fruit (never does good) so therefore he must not have any seed inside that produces fruit. He is corrupt and vile and doesn’t yield to God’s authority.
4. What about 1 John 3:9? This verse gave me a bit more insight into Psalm 14:1. If God’s seed is truly in someone they can’t continue to sin meaning they won’t be convicted of their sin because they don’t have the Holy Spirit inside and won’t repent because they feel they are right all the time because of course they don’t have His spirit inside. I can’t explain it but the only reason I can even see my sin, and turn is because His spirit presses down inside me and melts me. The only reason I desire to draw near is because He and I are one and he is in me. The only reason I can forgive a horrible wrong done to me and extend Grace is totally Him inside me and when I refuse to at first eventually He melts me and i turn. There is this longing inside to grow in Him which means a lot of repenting and turning. Love is sacrifice and that is Him and the desire I have inside to grow in loving my neighbor is from Him, not me.
5. Do you think a fool can be a child of God? Support your answer scripturally if possible. No I don’t. Believers crave His word and desire to grow in maturity – growth is all over scripture and is huge, and repentance and turning is crucial to growth. When a believer gets into Scripture he delights in it-not just for head knowledge. To me a sign is when someone, for years when getting into the word is in it for head knowledge only. Also loving others more than yourself is huge too and as we grow our love for others should too. I think it can be hard to tell if a fool is masking herself as a believer but if we ask God I firmly believe He will show us.
This post of yours Rebecca is absolutely brimming with truth.
Always love your sharing Nila. Pray all is well.
Rebecca I thought if you last week as we had a young Mom come into our ladies prayer in tears as her son was just recently diagnosed with Autism. She was so happy to have the time of prayer. I am sure the Lord has a lot in her future to show himself faithful. It was a blessing to see her seeking Him. And as Dee said such truth here.
Liz, my heart aches for her for wow do I remember what that felt like. May I say I am sooo thrilled at your post? Such love! You would be an amazing friend to her. That is what she needs right now, and lots of prayer. Let her spill for she is in shock -like disbelief at first – and also grieving a loss of her dreams for her son. I have often thought of writing a helpful book on how to love and serve moms and dads who have a new diagnosis and beyond but I am not that good of a writer. 🙂
Oh Rebecca I will pray you consider writing that book. When my daughter was diagnosed with Epilepsy at age 5 it rocked my world. It actually was a huge part of my coming to Jesus. I longed to connect to information and helps for this new diagnosis that was so hard.
The Lord did orchestrate people into my life but to have such a book like you describe would have been priceless.
I need to connect with her again. Love seeing younger women with such hunger as she showed. I do not think she realizes the Lord is taking her up higher or should I say out into the deep. But she does not go alone. Truly we can rejoice thru our various trials as His Word says.
I love this Rebecca.
Yes, Liz..such an insightful thought that the she doesn’t know the Lord will take her higher for he certainly will and it is clear He has and is pressing you closer in your pain as well.
Simmchris, what is strange is soon after our diagnosis a godly couple told us God wired my son this way so it is not something that is out of His control..I don’t know how they knew I needed to hear that but some wouldn’t be ready to hear that or might get angry at God so we have to be careful with words..but I needed it. It reversed my dread of him being aloof to He is still God- in control and He deeply cares and is working out His plan for my son and us, and even though it has been painful and still is He is always always good.
Your story about Sally is so like ours with Ellie. I never even thought of depression in a 8 year old but wow i wish i had, she struggled for YEARS with hard feelings toward emma. she was the youngest and it was so very hard. When she gave her testimony as a junior in highschool she tells how she was so bitter for years because Emma took all her attention. and how GOD had to do a miracle in her heart for her to begin to forgive us and love Emma. I also think of my husband who was very distant and almost non-verbal for the first 20 years of our marriage. I have tears just thinking about how very hard it was to stay married to someone who was not emotionally available AT ALL. When he got the pump for his diabetes and then FINALLY got on anti-depressants it was as if i had a real husband for the first time. he acted like a fool for 20 years but he is actually a very wise and kind person.
God sighting
Emma has a new friend! I met her mom last night and they have a farm and they are helping her with FFA (we are city folks and moved into the country LOL) We have 6 chickens living in our back yard…who even are we!?!?!?!
Such a testimony — and so like ours!
Yes, who would think of depression in an 8 year old? Our pediatrician has a depression screening questionnaire the kids have to answer at each visit. I’m glad health care is beginning to look at mental health more as part of a child’s whole health. In our area we also have a brand new emergency mental health facility for those needing immediate help with a situation. This is amazing, so that they can get help in an environment where they can be safe and understood and not in the middle of an ER treating physical needs.
Sunday:
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Dee, thank you for making the difference between a prodigal, a fool, and a mental illness in a clearer way. Spiritual discernment is so needed as well as fervent prayers. I appreciate you sharing Sally’s struggles due to clinical depression and grateful she found timely help.
2. How have you seen God at work in the last twenty-four hours?
I appreciate the prayers and blessings as we made the trip to Louisville, KY last week. It was a tiring week but I enjoyed relating to my students close up as well as my colleague, Steve. My students placed 5th in their career pathway showcase. We were all disappointed we did not get to medal but we talked it out and I got to see how well my students processed their loss. We told them how proud we were for them to make it to Nationals.
I see God working in my heart all through last week. He helped me deal with my idols of control and approval and I am finding that it has taken lesser time for me to give up my idols than I used to. Thank you, Lord.
Thankful for safety, easier navigating of Louisville than we thought, good camaraderie among the 4 students and us, and good travel time (11 hours each way!). I got home to a peaceful house and some fresh raspberries and peas from the farm as well as blooming daylilies. God’s creation is replete of His goodness! And a husband who missed me and who talked about all the things he was able to do while I was gone. LOL
Good reports, Bing. Learning how to handle disappointment is so key in maturing — good for you and good for them!
I do not know how to delete a repeat.
Don’t worry about it!
5. Do you think a fool can be a child of God? Support your answer scripturally if possible.
No. Because a fool says that, “there is no God”. (Ps. 10:4 ALL his thoughts are ‘there is no God.’ Ps. 53:1 “The fool has said in his heart, There is no God.’ ) But it is a serious thing to label anyone a fool, for God alone knows the heart. It is important to distinguish between acting foolishly and being a fool. If I fail I am not necessarily a failure. If I act foolishly I am not necessarily a fool.
I listened to the first lecture “Letting Go” ~ At the beginning of this message he quotes from the hymn, Come Thou Fount.
“Prone to wonder
Lord I feel it
Prone to leave
The God I love ~”
He says, “That hymn describes a feature of what life is in a fallen world. There is an instinct that is embedded so deeply in creation that it touches everything – even those who walk with God. That is that we are wonder-prone.”
Being “wonder-prone” is associated with believing lies about the goodness of our God. And we are all susceptible to this ~ which leads to foolish thoughts and foolish words and actions at any given moment unless we continually remind ourselves of what is true.
Psalm 73:21, 22
“When my heart was embittered and I was pierced within,
Then I was senseless and ignorant; I was like a beast before You.”
Significant that this Psalm speaks to being embittered, for truly unforgivness is a root cause of foolish thoughts and actions.
This old hymn says that we who are God-lovers can be and are wonderers. That is the battle we are in this side of heaven.
So, it seems to me that there is a difference between being a fool and being a prodigal, for a prodigal wonders away, whereas a fool has not yet found the way, the truth and the life. Can someone help me clarify this please?
This beautiful song/animation from Sovereign Grace (Thank you Lizzy for putting me on to this music when I first found this blog a few years ago.) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbTK-mKxrAc&fbclid=IwAR3q4P6Uytjb5vIm1RJ7yvEcwqL-_eC9icE1Wu1K4qiuzkPhait9FvM8cjs
“You held out Your arms, I walked away
Insolent, I spurned Your face
Squandering the gifts You gave to me
Holding close forbidden things……..”
Always love your sharing Nila. Pray all is well.
Nila, Wonderful insight in regard to being a fool vs. acting like a fool: “If I fail I am not necessarily a failure. If I act foolishly I am not necessarily a fool. Being “wonder-prone” is associated with believing lies about the goodness of our God. And we are all susceptible to this ~ which leads to foolish thoughts and foolish words and actions at any given moment unless we continually remind ourselves of what is true. Psalm 73:21, 22 “When my heart was embittered and I was pierced within, Then I was senseless and ignorant; I was like a beast before You.” ‘
Psalm 73:21, 22
“When my heart was embittered and I was pierced within,Then I was senseless and ignorant; I was like a beast before You.”
Significant that this Psalm speaks to being embittered, for truly unforgivness is a root cause of foolish thoughts and actions.
This has caught my attention.
Hi Nila…I agree that prodigals have wandered away…yielded to the rebellious nature that is part of our fallen state while a fool has never yielded up his own way at all. Maybe we could say that a prodigal is foolish in his “away-wariness” while a fool is incapable of coming “toward” God apart from a radical change of heart. While we should display “rugged love” toward both the prodigal and the fool it may have more impact on the prodigal.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I am really sad that you say a fool probably won’t change. I need to know more. Also, I am very wary of putting any medication into my body, much less my kids’ bodies. In exasperation, when our second oldest was making us absolutely crazy, we put him on different adhd medications. None of them worked and I think he still harbors resentment that we would do that (he’s 29). I am glad it worked out for Sally, but I’m not sure it does every time; it seems like a “crap shoot” to me, with my experience. Messing with the brain is a scary thing! Plus, I don’t trust the “psychologists” of today…they are not like my mom (a counselor who worked in a practice with psychiatrists) “back in the day.” I’m guessing the doctor Sally had was a good one like my mom and her group.
How have you seen God at work in the last twenty-four hours?
Well in the past few days I prayed that potty training would go quickly for Cooper and it really has been a good experience so far. He is getting the idea and only has had a few accidents. We want him to go to school in the fall and they have to be out of diapers.
Oh bless u Laura going thro potty training again! Yes may the Lord help your precious babies to learn quickly & be co-operative!! 🙂
Oh Laura we are so close in area. With school out would love to do coffee. I have a 16 month old grandson maybe we can meet at a playground somewhere. Potty training was not my favorite thing. Pray he learns quickly.
Liz! You’re back!! Absolutely let’s meet sometime this summer. I am around; not really traveling much. I would love to meet your grandson 😉. I will find a park in Manch for us. Is that ok? Email and let me know what days are good for you. Can’t wait to catch up!
So sweet! You two will have to take a picture and post it for us!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Laura, yes, please post a picture!
Yes Laura please lets make it happen. Manchester would be good and I would even come further South. I will email.
3. What do you think Psalm 14:1 means?
A fool says there is no God; he doesn’t acknowledge God, & doesn’t think that God sees his behavior.
4. What about 1 John 3:9?
One who follows God & is born of God cannot go on sinning. God’s seed remains in him. I think the Spirit who lives in the believer, makes him/her so miserable if he/she sins & walks away from God. So if one goes on sinning without a conscience , he is probably not a true believer.
5. Do you think a fool can be a child of God? Support your answer scripturally if possible.
Only God truly knows the heart, but Jesus said “by their fruit you shall know them”. A believer walking with the Spirit will grow fruit of the Spirit. If a fool says in his heart that there is no God, then I don’t think he can be a true believer.
God hunt: I saw a hummingbird in my garden & have been praying for one.( I don’t get the time to watch for them very often). He flew & hovered right in front of me for about a minute. I literally held my breath & was so filled with wonder….& when he flew away I burst into tears thanking the Lord for such a precious gift!! oh the tender mercy & loving kindness of our Father 🙂
Stopped in to peek and delighted the Lord led me here. So relevant. I have Jan’s tapes and book. It so struck a chord yet I was very cautious to call someone a fool. Especially my husband. Yes I am still married but separated. It has almost been 4 years. My vows were in sickness and health and what I have been seeing is some sickness. So exactly what am I dealing with here? My comfort comes in that God knows and I ask for the Holy Spirit leading. I have been healing and growing and the time has been precious. I appreciated your story about Sally. I had doctors who wanted to put my oldest who had Epilepsy on meds for depression and we opted not to and it was being strongly pushed. I am glad I stuck to what I felt the Lord was leading me in. She is now 31 and is on something for anxiety by her own choosing. Her seizures have been under control with meds for many years. Very thankful for that. She is a prodigal and believing she will find her way back. Oh how I love her and I know the Lord loves her even more. I will follow the Bible study for these 2 weeks but will probably not comment as I always struggled to keep up. So nice to see you all here. This is a special place.
So good to see you here Liz! I am only sporadically here. I follow along silently much of the time.
Thank you for sharing today 🙂
Wow Liz! 4 years already? Time flies. I’m glad you are healing. Sarah is still so far away from God. I am praying too. Love you sister!
Liz, So good to have you here and am grateful for your honesty for I know many of us can relate to what you are going through and it so helps. It is so sweet to see you pressing into Jesus.
Liz — so hard when it is mental illness but so proud of you for keeping your vows. It is true: in sickness and in health. I liken you to Wesley Hill who must remain single for other reasons but has chosen to do so out of obedience to God, knowing the joy set before him. Proud of you.
Thank you all.
Dee it has to do with hoarding. It was not as bad as it is now when I was home but that was only one of the things. I am in a program now called Celebrate Recovery as I have much to heal from. I am 22 years sober but sobriety is not the same as recovery. I developed co dependency traits over the long period of dysfunction I was living in. I have a control idol issue that I am working n as well with Jesus’s help. ( Idol Lies was a huge help in that) I am seeing my part and dealing with my part. I am addressing any unforgiveness and bitterness and have had such break though and growth and a growing freedom.
I will tell you coming to this blog almost 5 years ago was a HUGE stepping stone in this process. Forever thankful Dee
Thank you for this weeks Bible Study and these videos ( Lizzy too) I have shared then with friends and they have really been getting so much out of them.
For those of you who are waiting. TAKE COURAGE, Pray this song blesses you.
https://youtu.be/r49V9QcYheQ
Rebecca I thought of you last week as we had a young Mom come into our ladies prayer in tears as her son was just recently diagnosed with Autism. She was so happy to have the time of prayer. I am sure the Lord has a lot in her future to show himself faithful. It was a blessing to see her seeking Him. And as Dee said such truth here.
1.What stands out to you from the above and why? Tough love and letting go, stand out. Our natural response is to protect, also stands out. We need to look at God’s ways because our ways are sinful & broken- even our idea of helping someone doesn’t work, though it seems like it should.
2.How have you seen God at work in the last twenty-four hours? On Saturday, we hosted a wedding/reception at our home. There was a lot of work involved to prepare our property. It was not well planned, and this caused a lot of last minute work to fall on my family and those close to the couple getting married. In the end, it was a beautiful ceremony and reception, but it made me think about the truth that we are responsible for our actions as well as our inaction. The bride did not want to impose on anyone, so she kept falling back on saying she didn’t care about all the details and just wanted things simple. In the end, she really did care and her attitude of not caring left details unassigned which others then had to take care of. We agreed to host and felt it a privilege to help our friends with a venue, but then felt used when we had so much put on us at the last minute. We dearly love both families and were able to celebrate with them, but the inaction of the bride really had a big impact. I heard a lot of bitter complaints and yet when all was done, everyone agreed the night was beautiful and we are so happy for the new couple. The whole event, however, is causing me to think about my own actions/inaction. The times when I choose to ignore sin in my life and those I love. A lot to ponder.
Wow, Chris! “The times I choose to ignore sin in my life…” That really hits me! Thank you for posting as the Lord leads!!
Hitting me as well. I think about times I have chosen not to say something when really I should have. Also, when I’ve made excuses for my sin and those I love. I often think my inaction does not effect others, but I’m seeing it can have a big impact and that I am responsible if I just stand by and watch when those I love are behaving in a way that deserves rebuke. Like discussion in the video, some would like to have no accountability- but we need to care enough to require their accountability and stop allowing the sin to continue.
3. What do you think Psalm 14:1 means?
The fool doesn’t believe in God. They are people with poor behavior.
4. What about 1 John 3:9?
If you do believe in God you have Him within you. God creates everything however man has a choice to either believe or not. If you believe (are born again) you don’t want to sin and do your best to not sin.
5. Do you think a fool can be a child of God? Support your answer scripturally if possible.
Hmmm….I would hope we all could be children of God even when we have foolish behavior. I know I have been foolish before. I still believe in God and I hope He forgives me. My kids are foolish, don’t they just need more information?
“O simple ones, learn prudence; O fools, learn sense.”
Proverbs 8:5 ESV
https://www.bible.com/59/pro.8.5.
This verse implies that fools can change.
Yes, Chris. Amazing how we can find ways to excuse ourselves. I always get nervous about tech things when I speak and when the tech is not prepared I have heard, “It must not be God’s will for this to work.” Our hearts are so deceitful.
Foolishness is different than being a fool. Proverbs says “Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child but the rod of discipline will drive it from them.” So though your children are too old for the rod, I think both knowledge and discipline (allowing consequences to fall on them from their foolishness) are important.
God hunt!
Started to listen to the Letting Go video this evening and for some reason needed to know who this Paul Gilbert was (??). Don’t know why I cared? I looked him up at Four Oaks Church and noticed a familiar address; it was Shannon Lakes Drive. I started to wonder if it was close to where I grew up and WOULDN’T YOU KNOW??? It’s 1 mile exactly from my childhood home! So crazy. I wonder what God has in mind for me in this series?
Pretty sad today actually; we had court for the kids to respond to a motion Sarah our daughter made. Her boyfriend went off on us in court (again) and the judge expressed concern for Sarah’s well being because he said the boyfriend is so angry. I’m just sad that a week ago they sat in my in-laws home at the beach and said things that were actually nice and then he turns around and does this?! I am sad for him and my daughter. I’m guessing he is a very depressed person who knows his life is horrible and sees no way out. They really need someone to help them but they don’t even know it. Maybe this book is for me?
Oh dear Laura…great God hunt about that church being near where u grew up! 🙂
Sad about court & the sick boyfriend. Such a tough situation for u & your husband. I pray for comfort & encouragement for u!!
3-5 A fool says in his heart there is no GOD, actually I think it goes a little deeper than that, they put themselves as god. I have heard the 1 john vs used against students in Christian schools to make them believe that if they still struggle with a sin they are not really saved, I watched kids go forward to alter calls every month convinced they had lost their salvation because they had sinned. I am not sure what this vs. is supposed to mean but it does NOT mean that if you sin you are not a child of the king.
I do not know a single young adult from that church who is still a Jesus follower, it was too hard of a burden to carry and they all just gave up.
someone can ACT foolishly and still know Jesus…you are reading her words. our walk with HIM is a journey into relationship WITH HIM and as we know HIM better we will act better. A true fool is someone who has decided they are the final authority of their world. There is no god above themselves. therefore they may say they know jesus but really they know ABOUT Jesus, they have not placed him as lord over their life because they are already sitting in that seat.
I think it all comes down to humility and submission. A true fool has none, someone who ACTS like a fool does. also relationship with Jesus, That must be the most important thing because if david was a man after GODS own heart than GOD must have valued relationship over behavior because that dude was crazy! just read 1 samual!!! jeeesh
I agree, Cyndi, that is young. For all children are foolish, so that is false teaching.
God hunt
a year ago i stood in the middle of my favorite metro park and looked up at a house on a hill and said “I want to live there” just because i love the river and nature…i never in a million years believed that it could really happen, IT honestly NEVER CROSSED MY MIND. we were in the process of buying a house in town at the time. That sale fell through and we began to think that God did not want us in that school district so we started looking 10 miles south in a town called Perrysburg where most of my friends live. as i was looking at houses in that town I saw a lot for sale on the other side of the river so out of curiosity i clicked on it. when i did a HOUSE next door to the lot popped up for sale. the lot was $90,000 the HOUSE was $240,000. i couldn’t believe it, it was the one that i pointed to months ago and said that i wanted to live there! I still can not believe it as I type this. our next door neighbors house is worth over a million. It is a mess, lots of things need fixed and we are working everyday but we do not care, we get to live in the middle of GODS creation! ONLY God could have done this for us!
Such a sweet story of a Father who does indeed love to give good gifts to His children.
Wow Cyndi! What an amazing story! I’m so happy for you and your family!
Cyndi, Yay! Loved hearing this!! 🙂 🙂 Good to hear how God is loving on you.
6. Notes and comments from Video 1?
“Even in God’s house there was rebellion.” “Adam and Eve went prodigal.”
”Adam and Eve raises a murderer.”
God says, “you will only find rest in Me.”
“The wayward want choices without consequences.” They want to live in Neverland.
”The wayward mind distorts freedom.” It means a life free of restrictions. When consequences occur they are first surprised, intrusive, and then appalled. Because they aren’t with God they then feel that they are being victimized! They have no moral reasoning. A wayward person, say on drugs, will ask you for money and then be disgusted that you won’t give it to them. They take it personally, as if you are the problem, not that they have caused the problem with their drug use. They suppress the truth.
“Loving a prodigal is emotionally exhausting.”
“Fools exploit our meekness by capitalizing on it; it empowers them.”
Good notes, Laura.
It is the 4th of July — and in the United States we must pray for our country, as God has called us to do. Let me begin.
Father,
I do thank you for our forefathers of faith who founded this great country on Your principles and truth. How far we have drifted. And it may be that You are disciplining us through giving us leaders that lack character. Yet I know You have a remnant, and I pray You will help me and my sisters on this blog to seek You with all our hearts. I do ask for mercy for our country, in that You might bring those who lead us to repentance and faith, and that You would strengthen the remnant of believers on leadership to fear You and not man, to desire to please You and not man. I pray hearts would be enlarged to care for the immigrant, the stranger, the persecuted, the unborn, the elderly, the handicapped, the poor — and to have wisdom on the best way to help. I pray for revival, for a turning back to You with all our hearts.
In Jesus Name I pray
Notes and comments from Video 1?
What an answer to prayer. So true:
1. We are all bent toward foolishness but what happens in proverbs, it narrows a fool. A fool despises wisdom and instruction. They hate knowledge. Fools get disgraced. The fool thinks he is right in everything he does. they dismiss God and appoint themselves as ruler of their life. If they remain unrepentant, wayward remains the path they walk on. they move away from God.
2. There are two behaviors that push them on that path. 1. that person is renouncing roles and 2. rejecting voices. Ex: the husband doesn’t want to be married because he has fallen in love with a neighbor. When he wants a divorce he is renouncing his role as a father, wife and neighbor. He is rejecting the voice of everyone. A fool acts to renounce a role and rejects the voices of those who love them. The best way to help someone who is drifting in that direction is to understand how they are thinking so we can know how we can love them.
3. What the wayward wants: 1. Choices without consequences. One must give up a certain degree of moral reasoning-cause and effect – they are reaching for a never land existence (i should have the space to do what I want when I want and the effects on other people are irrelevant to me.) The issue of freedom is becoming distorted-a life free of restrictions with no sense of what freedom really costs. When consequences come it strikes them as surprising, intrusive and outrageous. It strikes them as if they are being victimized because there is no moral reasoning. It is hard for them to discern their choices and your denial, or action because there is an active suppression of the truth. By our unrighteousness we suppress the truth. It is a choice. Because we are suppressing the truth it eliminates the ability to see the playing field. To distinguish one thing from another thing.
4. Autonomy without accountability – Wayward people want a world where there wants and desires are not open for discussion or debate and no culpability on decisions they are going to make. They want to achieve an independence but not being accountable for the decisions they choose. The most frightening thing is there is a hidden side to the person. If you don’t keep your mind on the Lord it can cause you to speculate that will drive you nuts.
5. Real love must do is disrupt the illusion that they are living in. This never land world they are living in. Courageous love has to get in there and disrupt it. One can be unaccountable but fully funded by the family or parents. A wayward soul steps into our world and creates a power balance. No emotional skin in the game-no incentive to adjust his or her behavior. We can be tempted do whatever it takes to keep the relationship together-I will do whatever you want – but fools don’t respect neediness. they don’t respect fear-they exploit it. Our weakness empowers their entitlement. Prodigals need to encounter a rugged love-willing to upset the balance in the home. Willing to force a hard reset into relationships.
Looking forward to discovering more about rugged love.
Good notes, Rebecca. Helps you be truly ready to help a prodigal or a fool.
Rebecca, thank you for your notes. I listened and took notes las night as well and I echo what you said-the video is an answer to prayer. Such depth and sound advice on how to deal with our prodigals. It has helped me understand more the ways of the prodigal and my need to know how to give rugged love. God, be gracious and merciful to us.
Great notes.
Lord I thank you that I live in a country that stands for the freedom to choose what to think and what to believe.I am so thankful that I was born in a place where i have access to 1,ooo’s of thoughts and opinions and not just one ideology. I pray that we use that freedom wisely, that we love people who do not agree with us well, that evil will be sniffed out and turned away from, that our media will be wise and that we as a people will stop listening to everything we hear and get on our knees and beg you for hearts that place you as king of all kings. Show us how to love in such a way that others can not help but see YOU. With freedom comes great responsbily, may we use our freedom to do the kindest thing in the kindest way. May we as individuals seek to befriend the hurting and the displaced in a way that counteracts what our government does and has done. Mr Rogers told kids that when things got scary to look for the helpers….Lord Jesus, make us the helpers!
Jesus thank you for blessing us so that we could celebrate the freedom of our country yesterday for you have blessed us abundantly and oh have been so merciful – so in awe of your long suffering. We really need you to intervene in our country to humble us and turn us from our wicked ways. Idolatry has consumed us and it is eating us alive. We overly thirst for the things and people of this earth to fill the deep longing inside that only you can fill and more and more we have broken the envelope in regard to how deep and perverted we can go with sin and have put this perversion on the throne of our hearts thinking it will bring some sort of completeness or rest for our restless hearts when only you can. Atheism is on the rise and there are so many lonely and desperate people who don’t know you. Help us to see who you have put in our path today to love -so that you can shine your light into their darkness through us and melt their hearts for you. Help them to see the difference between the love of those who are yours and those who are of the world. Jesus You are our hope and our salvation. In your name alone we pray, amen.
Dear Jesus, thank You for guiding our forefathers in the creation of this unique country. Thank You for giving them the intelligence and the stamina (it was not an easy path) to come up with things like checks and balances of each branch of the government; their way of self-reflection, that is necessary when the gears are beginning to grind. The men and women who laid down their lives to form this republic had You within them. Your verses and name are threaded within the documents and the monuments that define this country. I am SO thankful for that. I truly believe we are a country that was formed with Your hand over it. In modern times people have forgotten that or just don’t want to believe it to be so. Unfortunately, there are leaders who don’t recognize that about the great history of our country. They just want to forget You and move on with their own way; the fool’s way. Please forgive us for being so forgetful of You. I pray that a revolution of new leaders are elected over the next several years who remember their roots, and remember You first instead of themselves and their agenda that ruins the beauty of the government formed all those years ago. Help us be compassionate to others by following our laws so an orderly society results, not one where recklessness hurts people. Help people who disagree with each other to begin to listen more and talk less and learn why people feel the way the do. It’s been said that you don’t know what you had until you don’t have it anymore. Boy, do I know that! Please don’t let us get to a place where we are too far away to “right” ourselves. Let us leave this place better than we found it. I pray in Your Holy Name, Lord Jesus. Amen.
1. What do you think Psalm 14:1 means?
A true fool does not believe in God as evidenced by the fruit of his life-corruption, abominable works, or works of the flesh that only caters to self and none other. By belief I mean the fool maybe somebody who says there is God but he does not acknowledge who God is in his life and do not have Jesus as Lord.
2. What about 1 John 3:9?
“Does not sin” here doesn’t mean the one born of God is perfect since there is no one who has ever lived who is perfect except Jesus. And because the sinless lamb of God took our sins to the cross, our sins, past, present, and future have been forgiven as though we have not sinned at all. We gain the imputed righteousness of Christ.
And because “his seed remains in us”, there is the constant presence of the Holy Spirit who convicts us. And we can claim the promises of I John 1: 9 and be cleansed.
5. Do you think a fool can be a child of God? Support your answer scripturally if possible.
I don’t think so. A child of God is dependent on God to do anything.
Since a fool always thinks he is right and only trusts in his own heart so he does not call on God to help him . John 15:5b …”for without me you can do nothing.” He is not humble and will not take advice from anyone else. Philippians 2:4 Let ach of you look out not only for his own interests but also for the interests of others.
A fool uses anger to control others. He does not have the fruit of the Spirit which are “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control.” Galatians 5:22-23.
Thursday/Friday: 4th and 5th of July
I’d like to take a little break here to pray for our country, using the following Scriptures. You can pray silently or write your prayers after the Scriptures. Feel also to simply pour our your heart as well.
2 Chronicles 7:14 – if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
“Lord, may we as your people humble ourselves before you. Forgive us when we think we can do life on our own. We need you for apart from you we cannot do anything. Help us want to seek your face for in seeking you, we see our sinfulness for you are a holy God. We pray that every wicked way in us is revealed and help us, help us, O Lord to turn away from them. For as your people we have the promise of you hearing our prayers and healing our land when we do so. “
Psalms 2:10-11 – Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear and celebrate his rule with trembling.
“Give us leaders who are wise, dependent on you, serving you with fear and trembling. Not focused on their personal agenda but sincerely seeking your face and the good of our country. Help them see clearly the real needs that are ever before them…”
Proverbs 11:14 – For lack of guidance a nation falls, but victory is won through many advisers.
“…And be wise in seeking advice. Surround our leaders with your people who will support them in prayer and godly action. May our leaders be not as fools who think their ways are always the right ways.”
Proverbs 21:1 – The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will.
“I thank you, Lord, that despise man’s maneuverings, the hearts of our leaders are in your hand. You are sovereign over all. Help us dig deep into your Word so we know how to pray for our nation and to pray “your kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”
7. What is your take-a-way and why?
Being a fool is a scary thing. I think I have been a fool in the past and have (mostly) “recovered…” I am doing my best to listen to others better and not hunk I have all the answers, but to rely on God for everything. I also am less “mouthy.” I do believe fools can change. I think age brings wisdom and wisdom opens your eyes.
I cannot believe how Dave, in the video, nailed Sarah and her boyfriend’s behavior; it is spot on. I can’t wait to listen to the other videos now!
Laura, oh I am right with you! I felt the same way as I listened, Dave nailed a lot of behaviors. So wise.
I am eager to catch up and finish the videos. So far my take away is that a fool can draw us into foolish behavior and even deceive/coerce us into backing their behavior. We need to be in the Word, stay vigilant against foolishness, and be willing to stand up for what is right, or suffer the consequences of our inaction. Remembering that an unforgiving spirit is the root of foolish behavior , we need to keep short accounts.
Simmchris, Very strong and wise pull-outs on your take aways.
Thank you for the encouragement 😊
Thanks to all who prayed silently or in writing for our country.
And for the encouragement to others to watch these outstanding videos!
Week 2:
How did you see God move in your life over the last week. Did something stand out in particular? If so, why?
I had a very bad day Wednesday. God woke me up to a realization of my life that I need to change. He has disciplined me and I am following His way. I will do as He wishes because I love Him.
I believe this video series is one sent to me from Him. Hard truths but SO GOOD. Thank you Dee.
So glad, Laura. You can see all of them at the same website.
My take away is the blessing of being here and learning so much from everybody. Thank you, Dee (and Lizzy) for the videos. I have watched all three and really value the depth of redemptive love that these 2 pastors have for others. They have encouraged my heart so much as I think of prodigals in my family as well as in my church family.
2. How did you see God move in your life over the last week. Did something stand out in particular? In 1st Samuel 16: This time what quickened me was to trust God with hearts for He raises up and brings down whom He will. As much as I think I know in the moment, I truly don’t know other’s hearts and certainly don’t know the depths of mine! So I must trust Him to show me and give me wisdom and if I am willing to wait, He often does.
I like how in the second video the pastor encourages those who are being hurt by a prodigal to earnestly, fervently pray -not alone but with family, other believers and believers in your church because doing rugged love without the spirit will bring bitterness and things that make it worse. Walking with people in the community of Christ in this is huge also. There is pain with exposure but we trust that when we confess our sins to one another God pours out his healing mercy upon us.
So true. I think because works righteousness is the default mode of the human heart it causes us to fail to pray.
Sunday:
How did you see God move in your life over the last week? Did something stand out in particular? If so, why?
I have a few things that stood out to me but one, in particular, is the phrase than Jan Silvious used, “you are not going to get to me”. At first glance, I thought it is only applicable when I am relating to a fool or somebody doing foolish things. But then recently my husband said something to me that I felt was insensitive (I used to be a very sensitive person, think Barney Fife in one of the Andy Griffith’s show lol, not so much anymore) and although I did not say anything, I started feeling resentful towards him. But knowing my husband I knew he was just pointing out a fact. I see the enemy’s ploy here of using my idol of approval once more. So I just said Jan’s phrase to the enemy, “you are not going to get to me”, “you will not use my husband’s words to get to me”, you are not going to get to me. And it worked! I prayed about it in my heart and even right now as I type I do not remember what my husband said to me! I have felt the victory that I have in Christ.
Thank you, Dee, for leading us in this series of the fool.
Bing, Yay! Such a wonderful testimony!
Amen to Rebecca’s encouragement of Bing!
This is great. I have had that experience before and need to remember to use it more often.
1.How did you see God move in your life over the last week. Did something stand out in particular? If so, why? God worked through this study to lead me to disrupt status quo in my home. I’m grateful that the Holy Spirit has gone before me to soften hearts to the truth. There is power in the truth. It’s so hard to do this, but we have hope in Christ’s healing power as we consider the future of our family without the hurting. Please pray today as we consider the damage done to relationships in the past (all that is a result of that) and our hope for healing as we move forward. Pray, too, for wisdom as we strive to change behaviors, thoughts and situations that trigger. Need wisdom for solutions to change. What stands out to me most is God’s ability to work in such miraculous ways where we are powerless. Also, how He works in everyday events and how we need to continually be looking for His leading in our lives and listen closely for the Holy Spirit’s direction and do not doubt- but trust 🙂
So thankful to read this, Chris.
So thankful for this study and to finally be at this place. Sadly, we won’t reach perfection in this life, but we must always be striving for improvement.
2. Share your notes and comments on session 3, Letting Go.
The crisis, the confrontation with truth, the feeling of betrayal, the realization of enabling, the importance of community of Christ & professional help when needed to sort out sin/psychiatric needs, the hurt, the anger, the hard work of fighting to win back what was lost. This is where we are.
The Hope.
God hunt: I’m amazed at how well the confrontation went. God really had a hand in every step. Providing this study, the timing of every situation leading up. I had a mammogram last week and received results July 4 electronically, further imaging required. My appointment was scheduled July 5. I believe this had a part in softening my husband’s heart for our talk. Tests are complete and all is well. Recheck in 6 months. I’ll be curious to see where our hearts are in 6 months. What circumstances will have really changed? I’m eternally grateful for the Holy Spirit and the evidence of His work in my husband’s heart and mine.
Simmchris, so glad to hear that the confrontation went well and God softened your husband’s heart – this road is tough. I am sure it seems like a roller coaster almost and can be tempting to roll with it. It sounds though like you are trusting God with his heart instead- so so good. Very wonderful to hear your results are good.
Thanks again for your encouragement, Rebecca. Moving forward is not perfect, but the sin has been exposed and so it is losing its power. 🙂
Praying for you.
Chris, Yes soooo true and such truth that moving forward is not perfect but the sin has been exposed and so it is losing it’s power.
4. Share your notes and comments on Session 4
Wow. This teaching is amazing.
1.Our Ishmael’s are the fruit of our impatience & unbelief.
Abraham: 1. Believed the promise
2. Embraced the circumstances (there was no life)
3. Sustained his faith.
2. We show our disapproval (of the prodigal) by presenting truth, yet maintain the relationship at all cost and therefore make no progress at turning the prodigal towards repentance.
3. Our hope lies NOT in the changing of our circumstances, but in the growth of our faith in the promises of God.
God hunt: I’m faced with a situation. I have a daughter, 20 years old, getting married in October. My oldest daughter, 27 years old, wants to have a bachelorette party for her. Culture vs Faith. Both my girls are professing believers, as are their friends. I’ve been asked to have the grand babies overnight as the party involves hanging out at the pool, games, dinner and drinks with the girls sleeping over so no one is drinking & driving. I discovered the party is Saturday-Sunday, so I asked-‘what about church? Why can’t the party be Friday-Saturday?’ First response was pretty hot. I was perceived as judgmental. My oldest daughter is in a leadership position for a women’s bible study at church. My concern is the example she is setting in her circle of influence and how this effects my own witness being that I’m involved. We will continue our discussion today. I appreciate prayers as I navigate a touchy subject.
Chris, How did the discussion go? praying.
1. Comment on video 4: Abraham grew in his faith when everything was dead. There was no spark of hope anywhere yet he grew strong in his faith giving glory to God trusting His promise (which took 25 years). To me this really stood out and helped me to examine if I am really trusting in His promises when I am in a trial and everything seems dead around me.
Amen. Me, too. What am I really trusting in?
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? The reminder of how God parented His prodigals and the book Letting Go…I am coming to the place of recognizing I probably need to take that step in my marriage but always find myself circling back to the question “Is that really the only way?”
2.How have you seen God at work in the last twenty-four hours? This is a hard time of year for me. My mother’s birthday was July 7 and mine is July 9…we always celebrated together and after her death it has been a bittersweet time…then 4 years ago my father died on July 8. I spent the holiday week at his home in the mountains which we bought. God’s presence drew near in a way I haven’t felt in a long time.
Glad the Lord met you at this time of grieving your mom.
Lucy, my prayers for comfort for you. For me, the month of June is the hardest time- my Dad, my sister and my mother in law passed away, the latter 2 in the same year. I am glad to hear God drew near in a very special way.
Bing, such pain to bear with three people you love so deeply and especially so with triggers like the month of June. hugs for you friend.
Lucy H., A huge hug to you with two really deep valley trials going on at the same time, so heart searing. So glad to hear God is comforting you.
Lucy,
I thought I posted on your comment but apparently I did not.
I am sorry for your sad past few weeks; it is a lot to endure all at once. I love that you got to get away and be with the One who loves us more than we can know. I am praying for your peace.
3. What do you think Psalm 14:1 means? By definition a fool sets himself up to be his own god…says/believes in his heart that there is no God. They are spiritually corrupt and are not capable of good deeds or of doing what is right.
4. What about 1 John 3:9? No one who has been born again…continues on in his way of sinning (habitual practice of sinning) because the seed of the Godhead abides in Him. This abiding nature of God within brings with it the conviction of the Holy Spirit so that unless we harden our hearts we cannot avoid.
5. Do you think a fool can be a child of God? Support your answer scripturally if possible. I think that no one is beyond redemption if God so chooses and care should be taken in calling anyone a fool. But, in the case of a fool, they have chosen not to believe God…or better yet chosen to believe that father of lies. In all the scriptures about fools there are none that seem to support fools as being believers…they la k wisdom, despise wisdom and discipline, mocks guilt, is quarrelsome, licentious, disregarding God’s will.
4.
Video 4
Abraham believed the promise of God even though the human circumstances seemed insurmountable.
“He embraced the circumstances.”
”He sustained the trust.”
“Abraham grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God.”
Ishmael represents the child of the flesh. We believe in God but we don’t trust He can do anything to change the situation.
We believe that our prodigal needs the truth, not relationship.
My question…what is our promise? What is my promise?
I’m pondering this as well. Really grasping the gospel, that Good News, and living it out in faith- giving God glory and growing my faith despite my circumstances.
Laura…I find myself wondering the same thing. I think maybe the promise is that God will be my faithful and true husband and the shield and defender that my husband is unable to be. What I wish the promise was is that my husband would choose to get help for his addiction, be healed and be a wonderful testimony of God’s grace. But that choice is his to make and God will not promise that to me. Instead He offers me Himself and I can trust that it is exactly what I need!
https://youtu.be/biIPEcAjDEQ
Beautiful. Thank you, Laura.
5. Do you have a recent God Hunt?
I suspect God has His hand in a certain area of my life that is too personal to discuss. However, I feel peace and strength where I did not have that before. Praise be to God and thank You dear Lord. Amen.
Praying for your situation, Laura.
Thanks Chris.
1. Share your notes and comments on session 3.
I appreciate the willingness of the Hollister couple to share about their struggle and how rugged love helped them overcome the husband’s prodigal ways. What struck me the most is the presence and role of the community to walk alongside them. I think this is lacking among our churches today-we value independence and we shun vulnerability and humility in its true meaning. We don’t want to be called a “failure” hence we don’t open up to one another.
I also appreciate the 4 points that Pastor Dave ended the session with: They exude wisdom from somebody who has been in the trenches with people. One can tell Pastor Dave’s genuine love for his congregation and his community.
a. Have you prayed fervently?
b. Are there mental issues?
c. Have your words lost their influence?
d. Can they abide by agreements/contracts?
2. Share a recent God Hunt!
I found this wonderful group of teachers by signing up for Angela Watson’s truth for teachers podcast and club. The commonalities I see among us made me realize I am not alone in many of my struggles as a teacher. Although it was a little bit of money upfront, I believe this is what I need as I finish up (Lord willing) my teaching career in 2 years!
Bing,
What you said is SO true that we hesitate to go to anyone in our church with this and why: What struck me the most is the presence and role of the community to walk alongside them. I think this is lacking among our churches today-we value independence and we shun vulnerability and humility in its true meaning. We don’t want to be called a “failure” hence we don’t open up to one another.
You really nailed this Bing. You helped me to ask why we (Christians) value independence and shun vulnerability and humility. Hmmm…
I’m with you on your thoughts about the role of community in our churches. What gifted pastors in the video!
Happy for you to have found the encouragement in a podcast 🙂
I’m so encouraged by your responses to these lectures!
Hi everyone! Its my 1st day off in almost 2 weeks, so I played catch up today with the videos & your comments 🙂 I love the video presentations & the 2 pastors; so authentic & wise.
Session 3:
Rugged Love; without crisis there is no urgency for the wayward to change, or to face their sin. Need to act to bring about change. God is faithful. Needs to be walked out in a community of believers. Courageous love has to disrupt the illusions of the wayward. Have to be willing to force a Reset.
Session 4:
Where we find prodigals, we find waiting. Need faith for the barren times. Abraham had a daily faith; that is what helps us persevere & give glory to God; our daily faith walk pleases Him.
Lessons from Abraham’s faith:
1). Believing the promise of God; We must let the voice of Scripture & God’s promises be louder than all the other voices. What voices matter most to me?
2). Embracing the circumstances; God intentionally waited till it was too late…what is dead & barren & impossible for us is possible with God. It had to come from God & God alone.
3). Sustaining trust; Abraham met God in the barrenness & grew in faith before his circumstances changed!
May God help us to be more convinced that He is able to do what He has promised. May He help us to give glory to Him right where we are…in the waiting.
God hunt: The Lord sustained me working all thro the Holiday week & weekend. He is surrounding me with a lot of support thro the body of Christ, as I make some hard decisions about my marriage. Rugged love & scary change. These sessions are very helpful & timely! Please pray for continuing clarity, courage & conviction; Truth with Grace!
Praying for you and your family, Jenny 🙂
Jenny, yes praying for you-truth with grace.
Dee,
I’m watching the three Letting Go videos again this week (I listened to them all last week). Thank you for these very helpful teachings. I have tried to find the web site that these three videos are from so that I can watch others, but I cannot find the website.
Help please?
Thank you!
I tried the web address and got some weird offer to buy a domain for the address! Maybe it’s old and they ditched the site?
Its only $7 on Amazon. I may buy the book.
https://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-Rugged-Wayward-Souls/dp/0310523532/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?keywords=letting+go+book&qid=1562930145&s=gateway&sprefix=letting+go+&sr=8-7
I would like to see the other videos though.
Here’s what I found at their church website:
http://www.fouroakschurch.com/lettinggo?rq=Letting%20go
Nila, I posted what I found online but Dee has to moderate because I added links. I found a second video on the church’s website. Look up four oaks church Tallahassee and search the site for letting go. Also you can buy the book for $7 on Amazon. Hope this helps!
Thanks, Laura — apparently the web address changed — so thanks!
Thank you Laura!!
Nila/Laura–I haven’t been on here in a while but did want to add that the book follows a lot of the videos and is really helpful. I also heard Dave live and was so moved by his humility and depth. I’m so glad you all have enjoyed these too! I have read so many things on prodigals over the years but really felt like their wisdom was so helpful!
1. 1. Share your notes and comments on Session 4.
The long wait-the most convicting for me
Prodigals rarely return quickly. Where you find a prodigal, you find waiting. The other side of all of this is WAITING. He gave the example of Abraham (Romans 4:18-21), who was given a promise but took 25 years for it to be fulfilled. Abraham did not know where he was going but he obeyed. Hebrews 11 We should have daily faith as we wait.
a. Believe the promise. Romans 4:18
18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”
True faith believes God’s promises as a guaranteed future reality. We have a problem because our memory can fade. Even the most significant events in our lives we forget.
We need to work our Bible so we can deal with difficult circumstances. Let the promises of God speak louder than our fears or circumstances. Faith trusts God for our future rather than what the voices of our circumstances say about the present. Faith trusts what God says. What voices are you listening to? Abraham had a settled conviction because God said it. He believed the promise of God.
b. Embracing the circumstance v.19 b. b. “ Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead.”
Abraham linked faith to reality; no denial of reality, no attempt to avoid the raw truth. Sometimes we deny reality in the pretense of what we call our faith. Abraham did not attempt to avoid the truth. Everywhere he looked (or I look) is dead, no seed, no hope, no life. Their lives are impossible. Yet Abraham believed.
If you love a wayward person and have prayed for them for years yet we see that there is no change, no interest, no life and we are crushed by the behavior of the one we love, we need to have faith in God and His promises. Our circumstances are way beyond man and need supernatural intervention from God and God alone.
c. a. He sustained the trust. V.20 “Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, fully convinced that God is able to do what He has promised.
Abraham met God in barrenness. (sometimes we see a spark and it gives us hope but the hope we see was based on a perceived change in ou prodigals rather than the promise of God.) We need to trust God in times of barrenness. Long before there was change, Abraham gave glory to God and he grew strong in his faith.
Question for me: Between the promise and its fulfillment, am I waiting on God? How am I doing? Am I waiting on God or I am planning an Ishmael? Do I work up an Ishmael-fruit of unbelief, signs of self- sufficient choices we make that displaces God. Ishmaels are conceived when impatience marries unbelief.
D Did you have a recent God Hunt?
We just finished our 7 week bible study on Legacy by Jackie and Lauren Green. Our small group of 15 ladies total were representative of 4 denominations. It was such a blessing to come together and get to know one another, love each other despite our differences and pray for one another. My prayer is that God will use our time in the Word to help us live out His will in our lives and also to find opportunities to encourage one another as sisters in Christ.
Friday-Saturday
1. What do you want to remember from our study of the fool and why?
a. Jan Silvious phrase “you are not going to get to me.” Whether I am dealing with a fool or the enemy, this phrase helps me remember the One who died for me and who lives in me and who is the one who will give me victory.
b. Dave “embracing the circumstance”. I can grow in faith in the midst of the gravity of the situation and waiting on the Lord while accepting reality.
c. That at one time I have been a fool, then freed from that hopeless state through Jesus Christ and though I may do foolish things, I have a God who will not let me stay that way. He will bring conviction through His Word and through His people.
2. How did this study personally impact you?
See the answer to #7. I have experienced settling of many of my doubts and insecurities regarding what to do when I encounter a fool and to stand on biblical principles on how to handle them.
Fri/Sat: I want to remember that a fool will not change unless there is disruption to the dysfunction. If I am in denial & showing more grace than truth, I am enabling the wayward person to continue in their folly. Sometimes a crisis is needed to bring about change. I need to trust God, wait on Him, stand strong with help of the body of Christ, walk with the Lord daily & let His voice be louder than any other. Be in the Word & believe God’s promises. God’s goal in showing tough love is to lead them to true repentance, faith, and healing.
This study has given me more clarity & wisdom & confirmation. But tough love is TOUGH!!! Thanks Dee!
Yes, Jenny — tough love is TOUGH! Praying for you.