Welcome to 2016 and to a book that can change your life!
Do you realize how different your life would be if you realized, to your core,
how deeply loved you are?
That, indeed, Jesus sees you as beautiful?
Up until the 1800’s, The Song of Songs
was the most preached on book in the Old Testament.
It was a pearl to be treasured.
Nothing, pastors thought, was more important for his flock’s walk
than seeing the depth of Christ’s love for them.
Seeing that love would help them face trial and temptation with victory.
But in time, the primary focus of the Song shifted from Christ to marriage, and preachers didn’t feel it was as important. Some, in fact, belittled its value. When the value of the Song was questioned by the interviewer who interviewed C. S. Lewis in his final interview, C. S. Lewis responded strongly.
The great saints and mystics of the church have felt just the opposite about it.They have found tremendous spiritual truth in the ‘Song of Solomon.’ … what is meat for a grown person might be unsuited to the palate of a child.[1]
How do you know if you are ready for this study? I don’t think Lewis would say that the length of time you have been a Christian is what matters, but rather, the depth of your hunger. Often new Christians, and I have seen this in prison, put those who have been Christians many years to shame with their hunger. So if you are hungry to know more of the Lord, and willing to do homework, come!
The Song is definitely a book that has been trampled upon. Dr. Michael Reeves, from whom you will watch a short video this week, says there are errors on both sides, when people fail to see both levels. Some who see only marriage have turned it into soft porn, and some who see only Christ have gone to great lengths, to, for example, spiritualize her breasts to mean the Old and New Testaments. This week we will look at the genre of the Song, and why good hermeneutics demands we see both levels.
It is my view that earthly marriage is there, but it is a pointer, as Ephesians tells us, to Christ and his Bride. Every other book is about God and His people, every other book has Christ hidden or revealed, and I cannot see why The Song would be an exception
The language of the Song is so private and yet that is also the key to its power. I believe you will be greatly refreshed by seeing how a beautiful earthly marriage can illuminate Christ’s love for you and His desire for your responsive love for Him.
We put our toes into the water of this book in 2013. Many of you may have been with us, and so some of this, especially initially, will be review, and I’m asking you to mentor our newcomers to The Song, for it is a challenging book. Here were a few of the responses from our first time around.
Does Jesus love me? I have been contemplating this question as my “sorrows like sea billows roll,” and I have come to see that this question is KEY. Do I believe that He loves me, desires me, even when suffering does not make sense and every alternative is dark? The Song of Songs keeps telling me He does.
Diane from Canada
A veil has been lifted and made me see God’s love in a whole new light. . . . He calls me to come away with Him, to come away from idols, from the safety blankets I have clung to for so long.
Staci from the Netherlands
I had previously thought of Song of Songs as being primarily about marriage, a book reflecting the beauty of romantic love. However, there’s so much I was missing. After all, the Bible from beginning to end is a cohesive story of God’s love for His people. So of course the Song should contain whispers of Christ. From that viewpoint, I can see Him pursuing me, rescuing me from my own sense of inadequacy and failure, delighting in me, and declaring His love for me. It is amazing to think of myself as His beloved, and the Song sings it loud and clear.
Jon from South Carolina
We also, during our first time around, made this Song our theme song, a song from Jesus Culture called “Song of Solomon.” Here is the official You-Tube version that has come out since 2013.
Monday-Wednesday: Approaching Poetry
A basic principle of good hermeneutics is to interpret according to the genre. For example, some would say that the Bible supports polygamy, for there are examples (including Solomon) of polygamy practiced. The error is that they fail to see these are historical accounts rather than didactic commands. God does not command polygamy but his plan instead for marriage, repeatedly stated, is one man and one woman for life. The fact that the Bible historically records sin such as polygamy, rape, murder, etc. is not a license to do those things.
It is also vital to know that prose should be interpreted differently than poetry.
2. Let’s look at the same truth expressed first in prose and then in poetry. What does it say and what does it mean in each case?
A. 1 Peter 5:7
B. Psalm 91:4
3. With the above example in mind, answer this:
A. What advantage does each genre have (prose and poetry)?
B. How could Psalm 91:4 be mis-interpreted if you didn’t see it as poetry?
Those who wish to discredit the Bible will often take a poetic passage and claim it is not scientific. Tim Keller has some wonderful sermons in which he says Genesis 1 is often mis-interpreted because people fail to realize it is poetry. They think it is teaching “how” the world was made rather than “why” it was made. Likewise, I remember a family member I love being misled by her minister who said the Bible couldn’t be trusted because it said the world was flat. He quoted Job 28:24: “God’s eyes run to the ends of the earth.” He was interpreting poetry as prose, perhaps to advance his own sinful agenda.
The genre of The Song of Songs is explained immediately in Song of Songs 1:1. It is a song! And a single song, though some have said it is many songs strung together. Songs, by their very definition, are poetry set to music.
4. Since poetry is multi-layered, and since the Song is poetry, what does that teach you about how to interpret it correctly?
I’d like your input on this. I plan to use this excerpt from John Donne’s on a preface page to my upcoming book:
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.
John Donne
Holy Sonnets:
“Batter my Heart, Three-Personed God”
5. What do you think Donne is communicating with this? What is the first level and what is the second?
6. Are you shocked that Donne would ask God to “ravish” him? What do you think he means and how might this correspond to the Song?
7. One of the strengths of poetry is its word pictures, for word pictures are able to slip into the heart, helping us feel, and love the Lord with all our heart, or fear HIm, or trust Him. They also tend to be memorable. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you?
8. Let’s put our toe into the water with the opening of the 1st chapter, realizing we will plunge in fully after these intro weeks. But, see if you can see the multilayers in Song of Songs 1:1-4.
A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king.
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating
concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride?
C. How would Matt. 22:36-37 support this?
D. Challenge question: If the Song were only about earthly marriage, what
problems might occur in interpreting, for example, verse 3?
9. Take a verse or passage from this week and pray it into your life.
Thursday-Friday: 15 minute Video
10. Watch and share notes and comments:
Saturday:
11. What is your take-a-way and why?
307 comments
I guess I know more of Donne’s work than I realized. In searching, I see that he wrote ‘No Man is an Island’ and ‘For Whom the Bell Tolls’ and a favorite: ‘Death Be Not Proud’. I also read that it seemed he was afraid of death and invested a lot in writing about and studying death. He was part of a group of metaphysical poets. (meta = beyond) somewhat similar to supernatural. As such, it seems he read, studied, meditated on the spiritual ; angels, death, the life beyond. What really intrigued me about his writing, is that every source mentioned his use of paradox. I love that. Because so much of the gospel is paradoxical. The ‘now….but not yet’ understanding of our redemption and deliverance. These thoughts only reinforce what has been mentioned here previously, that we can’t reason the truths and the complexities of Scripture. We can only see it clearly with the Holy Spirit’s enlightenment.
6. Are you shocked that Donne would ask God to “ravish” him? What do you think he means and how might this correspond to the Song? I wasn’t shocked because my first instinct of the word, ‘ravishing’ is exceptionally delightful’ as when a man tells a woman she looks ‘ravishing’. Though there are violent connotations to the word, there are also overwhelmingly exciting and pleasing connotations too. Once again, a paradox. Donne asks that God ravish him; break him, take away his ugliness; the sin in him and leave him chaste; pure, free, delivered from the entanglements of sin. And by being ‘enthralled’ by Him, he is not overburdened but he is free. Paradoxical because being enthralled speaks of being completely overcome with adoration/love/pleasure almost to the point of being ruled by it. (parents so enthralled with their children, they nearly worship them and have no insight to be an authority over them) In fact, an archaic meaning of ‘enthralled’ is ‘enslaved’. Perhaps this is what Donne meant. But when we are enthralled with Jesus, though we love and worship Him, His authority over us, frees us.
WoW! Wanda….I didn’t see any of that (your answer to number 6)! Thanks for being SO smart! 🙂
thanks for that kindness, Laura.
🙂
Diane and Lizzy – great insight and Tony Reinke is so helpful.
I just saw this quote via N.T. Wright and thought of question 3: “The arts are not the pretty but irrelevant bits around the border of reality. They are the highways into the center of reality which cannot be glimpsed, let alone grasped, any other way.”
oooh, was thinking about that quote yesterday in another context. Ha! Maybe I won’t avoid Donne now… Ugh! I can be pretty selective in my application of quotes I like (including Scripture)
Thanks, Rebecca. I love this quote! And I think he’s right. At least for me, I can’t see how I would grasp a lot of the beauty of redemption and God’s care and love without the word pictures in scripture.
Renee-I’m proud of you!! :))) Wanda-Oh..me too!
Thank you, sisters, for the wonderful explanations and shared explorations of the Donne quote. I don’t mean to belabor the point, but in the context of Dee’s book and the reader, I’m wondering how many that “don’t get it” may simply skim over the quote not understanding what its inclusion is trying to convey. Dee, I hope that you provide explanation for those whose minds don’t necessarily wrap well around literature so they too get the gist of why the quote is being used.
A warm welcome to JoVeda and Liz VH…so glad that you will be joining us on this journey.
Im so glad that I am not the only one who had no idea what this was saying 🙂
Nanci, I think you’ve described how I might respond if I hadn’t been through the previous study on SoS. But I also think that, depending on the specifics of an explanation, an explanation — if it occurred with the quote in the preface — could scare me off to the extent that I wouldn’t go any further. It sorta seems that the whole book will be an explanation. Until God’s love for me has begun to sink in at an emotional level, an explanation of “ravish” might cause me to stop reading. I’d be especially concerned about those who have been sexually abused. I usually label myself as someone who doesn’t get poetry, but I am learning that there are different levels and degrees of getting specific examples of poetry. I kinda like the idea of not knowing why the quote is being used 🙂 I might feel punched in the gut if I were told why the quote was used, especially if I weren’t a Christ follower in the first place. Right now, I can’t wrap my mind around an explanation that would be short enough to explain in a preface (to an unbeliever or to someone who has been raped) why I would want to ask God to force Himself on me.
I agreed with last week’s discussion and loved how Dee reworded some of the intro. There might be a way to provide an explanation of Donne’s quote in the preface, but at the moment, any explanations I can imagine either would be “not for everyone” (really would need a disclaimer) if they were thorough explanations — or else would be a version of a non-explanation: i.e., “trust me, you will understand this later.” Dee or someone else might know of a good way to explain it, though. My sense, in this situation, is that the mystery of poetry, and working through the layers of understanding, is a very good thing. I guess I even shut down if I think too long about a prose version of this quote and the impact it could have on someone who has been abused. Without much explanation, the quote leaves me wanting to get into the study to know more. I know I posted below that it might be good to cover it later or explain it later in the book. Now, I am realizing that even addressing it directly later will be challenging.
Renee, so glad to see you jump in here and that you are clear-headed enough to answer the questions. We so much value your perspective here.
Hi Renee…so nice to see you back on the blog…welcome home…:)
Many of the gals “got” the Donne quote and likely many that will read the upcoming SoS book will too. I am aware of my deficiency in understanding poetic literature and maybe that is part of my problem. I have so long reconciled myself to having a concrete, direct, more literal mind, not being creative, artsy, imaginative, etc., that I don’t allow my mind the opportunity to take it all in. Maybe the point is to not understand right away, to ponder, and “chew”…yes, “i.e.,”trust me, you will understand this later.””
I just finished Dee’s ‘The God of All Comfort’ and noted that the same Donne quote was used in the chapter called ‘My Heart is Stirred’ almost at the end of the book.
Dee wrote that “suffering can strip us of things that might have been keeping us from this intimacy with the Lord.” and “God wants a pure bride, not an unfaithful one;….. a devoted bride, not one with a divided heart. Often suffering transforms us into the kind of bride who delights in Him. Suffering strips us of things that might have been keeping us from this intimacy with the Lord.”
In reading the quote in the context of suffering, a whole other dimension is added, I think. It is a thought provoking quote and I kind of like the ‘mystery’ it invokes too. When I see a quote at the beginning of a book or chapter that I don’t quite ‘get’ (this happened to me in Yancey’s book, PRAYER, a couple times) it makes me a bit more aware and watching for how it fits in. Maybe that would be the experience of others who don’t see readily, it’s meaning.
This quote seems to be a treasure to Dee and I think it’d be a great way to begin. 🙂
Wanda-so insightful and I love how God is weaving in this week with The God of All Comfort for you!! This also goes with what I am reading in Job in my year reading. What stuck with me the past few days is when Job told his wife, “Shall we accept good and not bad from God?” (that is by memory so not sure it is totally right.) I have a dear friend of over 20 years diagnosed with cancer yesterday. He is an amazing counselor and this will affect that for it is on his tongue. Also, with my son who is still having blood in his urine and his appetite is waning. The Doctor is thinking it could be something else-they are thinking a kidney disease of some sort. It ‘feels’ like perhaps in 2016 there might be some valleys ahead-I don’t know but I sense it. I want to press in and to be willing to be stripped of things that might be keeping me from going deeper with Him. I love how in Job..it wasn’t God who caused it but satan..yet God allowed it and oh look at how God moved in it as Job drew closer to God through it and didn’t back away.
Rebecca – my heart is so moved to read this from you. I so love your heart and the way you desire above all else to “press in” to God, come what may in 2016. Dear, dear Job. He is a good friend to me…..Jesus used him greatly to woo me back in 2013 when I was in the pit of despair and grief and hopelessness. Our God just simply will not let us go!!! Prayers for your precious son to persevere with love for the Lord and growing trust in Him through this scary, scary trial.
Rebecca, watching others we love suffer is so hard! It is so telling that you “want to press in and to be willing to be stripped of things that might be keeping me from going deeper with him.” Praying for your longtime friend and for your son. Oh dear, this does sound hard! Please keep us informed.
Wanda, Love what you pulled from The God of All Comfort , “suffering can strip us…”
Rebecca, what you wrote moves me, too. “It ‘feels’ like perhaps in 2016 there might be some valleys ahead-I don’t know but I sense it. I want to press in and to be willing to be stripped of things that might be keeping me from going deeper with Him.” Praying for your son and for your rest in Him during these challenges.
Just came back from my face to face Bible/Book study in which we are reading ‘A Grace Revealed’ by Jerry Sittser. (I did not know of his story or books until I began this women’s study in our new church. Then reading through Dee’s book, I found that his writing was very helpful to her too.) But OH! Reading through these above comments beginning with Rebecca’s friend just dx with cancer and her son’s continuing health issues, so much of what we read today, takes wing. It was about the Spirit of the story overseeing the plot of our story. That is; we all read or watch an inspirational story like Les Miserables and would never ask for Jean Valjean’s plight and the plot of his story. But yet, we desire to have the spirit of the story which just shouts of redemption. And we talked about the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives. And even as we were sharing, our pastor, who usually leads us is undergoing tests/ doctor app’t for some serious issues. She has Wilson’s disease, which I had never heard of until I met her and what appears to be a flare up. And a young dad and father of 3 was just dx with what may be a cancer with a very poor prognosis. And then, as always, we all know someone going through such sadness, grief, trauma. So when you Rebecca, shared those words from Job; it really struck my heart. God is the one who sees, knows, ordains the plot, and the Spirit empowers us to walk through each valley in confidence. My dad often said ‘You have to take the good with the bad’, a simplified re-wording of Job’s declaration. I remember clearly an incident when I was 8 years old, when he told me this and I never forgot it. It’s one of my favorite memories of him. And he lived it when he was dx with deadly cancer at age 69. Like you, Rebecca, I had similar thoughts about valleys coming up in 2016. Only I was hoping that we could get through a year without them! Yesterday, I was going through my new 2016 planner and filling in events, birthdays, my daughter’s wedding, vacations etc. and it came to me that there are other days for which I cannot plan. I don’t know who will be struck this year, with tragedy or sickness or death. I have a close cousin who is fighting the same kind of serious cancer that my dad had. I thought about how we ended 2014, not having a clue that 2015 would bring the death of a dear friend from the cancer with which he suffered. “And in all of these things, we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.” What has brought peace to me time and time again, is the truth that God transcends time. That he is in all of our tomorrows already. I will pray again for your son, Rebecca, and that you’ll get a clear understanding and resolution to his struggle. And for your friend too. How traumatic and sad.
Jackie, I love how you said Job is a good friend to you..:)His mercies are new every morning-GREAT is His faithfulness..No one can snatch us from his hand-no power of hell no scheme of man.. It really helps me to ponder this-to pound this in further..for it helps me to be captivated by Him more than to become captivated with hopes of fixed trials! I just listened to the Mike Reeves clip. I could listen to that over and over again..The Gospel is ALL about intimacy with Him..everything in our lives isn’t out of His sight for He will turn around evil for good-maybe not fixing everything for us- but so that the dross will be stripped and we will desire Him more and delight in Him more.
Diane, you certainly have been such an encouragement to me to see you pressing into God through your pain for you have had so much!
I love your heart Rebecca, praying for Eli
Rebecca Prayers for your son and your friend. Praying He will draw all involved and those they love closer to Him thru this.
Wanda – amen to Rebecca’s words about your insight…..so thrilled to see you able to contribute here on the blog again! I know it is coming at a cost. Suffering, in fact. Praying today that some of the changes you are making will ease the pain and that the Dr’s will have growing wisdom as to the root of the problems with your hands and feet. 🙂
Thank you, dear Jackie! I do think the stretching exercises will help. Which reminds me. I better do them again!
Wanda thank you for sharing this. Dee wrote that “suffering can strip us of things that might have been keeping us from this intimacy with the Lord.” and “God wants a pure bride, not an unfaithful one;….. a devoted bride, not one with a divided heart. Often suffering transforms us into the kind of bride who delights in Him. Suffering strips us of things that might have been keeping us from this intimacy with the Lord.” We just ended a week of prayer at my church and I found myself led to pray for those who have never experienced any suffering. This quote adds to that prayer. Lord may you strip those things that have been keeping your people from experiencing intimacy with You
7. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you? There are a few powerful ones in the Song that have stayed with me but I’ll not get ahead of the study. Psalm 1 has stayed with me since we studied it 2 (?) years ago: Blessed is the man … [whose] delight is in the law of the Lord … He is like a tree planted by streams of water… When I dwell in His word my branches are healthy, green, and life seeps into me from the Word. He is life to my heart and soul just as water is life to a tree…. Trees flourish when planted by streams, so, too, my heart flourishes when planted by His Word and being.
Jeremiah 17:7-8 echoes the same: Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose trust is the Lord. He is like a tree planted by water that sends out its roots by the stream and does not fear when heat comes, for its leaves remain green, and is not anxious in the year of drought.
Our pastor used this Psalm to begin the new year. In our church bulletin, he always has a suggested scripture reading for each day of the coming week. This week, the reading is the same for every day. Psalm 1. 🙂 (Glad you mentioned the Jeremiah complementary passage, because I was thinking of it, but thought it was in Psalm 1, so when I read it and didn’t see those words, I wondered. )
Jill…I see now going back and reading comments more thoroughly that you and I picked the same verse, Jeremiah 17:8. My heart is full thinking how the Lord provides all we need if only we will trust and remain faithful…letting go and letting God navigate our path, so to speak.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Well, I’m late starting this week, but I wanted to finish last week’s lesson first, especially since Dee said that our final memory passage in John 1 would link so beautifully with The Song! I think the entire introduction is wonderful, wonderful! “Do you realize how different your life would be if you realized, to your core, how deeply loved you are?” I want that very much to be driven down to my very core, to have who I am be shaped by His love, and for Him to change me in the way that I love others as I am secure in His love.
I also understand C.S. Lewis’ quote better, seeing it in the context that an interviewer was questioning the value of the Songs! I also love the picture of the man holding the hands of the woman. I’m glad it doesn’t show their faces because then I can imagine myself in the picture, and Him taking hold of my hands like that.
The testimonies from Diane, Staci, and Jon are all so powerful, and it’s refreshing to see a man who can picture himself as the Beloved (like Michael Card). I think some men might feel awkward about that but it’s so true.
Your perseverance and consistency always impresses me, Susan.
5-6 I have no idea
7. The story about the lost coin, lost sheep and lost son have meant a lot to me over the years. People often would ask me why I would adopt when we already had 3 children. the main comment was “how will you have enough to give to your own if you have these special needs children that need so much of your attention” I struggled with this for a while and then we were studying this ch. of the Bible. The effort that was put forth the FIND THE ONE was so great and yet GOD honored it, HE DID IT. GOD LOVES THE LOST ENOUGH TO SACRIFICE FOR THEM…SO CAN I.
Also, the big brother reaction in the lost son was the most humbling study I have done with Dee. I am such a big brother and Keller has helped me see that. It was very much like the time Solomon confronting David with the story of the lamb…”you are the man” It was one of the most eye opening moments of my life and changed my parenthood as well as how I was a wife. I am so thankful for all I have learned from Dee and all of you over the years….but that was my biggest GAME CHANGER lesson 🙂
This is so good, Cyndi. I love how this parable gave you peace and affirmation in the adoption process. I may share those thoughts with my son and his wife.
Cyndi, but I am sure you were gracious with those people though! 🙂 Reminds me of this constant comment when my boys were little, “wow, you have your hands full!” and “Are all those yours?”. 🙂
2. Let’s look at the same truth expressed first in prose and then in poetry. What does it say and what does it mean in each case?
I had to first look up the definition of prose! I had mistakenly believed that prose and poetry were the same thing. I found that Prose is: the ordinary language people use in speaking or writingb : a literary medium distinguished from poetry especially by its greater irregularity and variety of rhythm and its closer correspondence to the patterns of everyday speech. (I guess I need a refresher course in English:))
A. 1 Peter 5:7
What does it say? – This verse says to cast all my anxiety or cares on Him because He cares for me.
What does it mean? – It means that I am not without One who cares about my troubles and anxieties; I have One who is more than able to bear my burdens and more than that, He wants to, because He cares about me.
B. Psalm 91:4
What does it say? – This verse says that God will cover you with His feathers and give you refuge under His wings; His faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
What does it mean? – It doesn’t mean that God is your “feathered friend”. It’s using a metaphor that pictures God as a protective mother bird who snuggles you under His wings and keeps you safe as One who is always faithful and true.
3. With the above example in mind, answer this:
A. What advantage does each genre have (prose and poetry)?
Prose is more matter-of-fact and practical; it states a truth plainly and I can understand being told to go to God with my fears with the reassurance that He does care for me. It’s easy to memorize and I can apply it practically in a situation. The poetry speaks more to my emotions and stirs up different feelings in me; it gives me rich word pictures and even stirs up my senses…I can imagine feeling all warm and protected, nestled against Him as the psalmist describes His protection. When I’m really afraid and my emotions are not helping me but pulling me down, just a simple truth to stand on and tell me what to do is what I need. It’s like receiving advice in the moment, “just do it”. But there are other times when I need those word pictures and metaphors, when I need comforting, and the poetry speaks to those times.
B. How could Psalm 91:4 be misinterpreted if you didn’t see it as poetry?
Some have misinterpreted certain passages that speak of God in a motherly way to say that God is male and female, and wanting to rewrite the Bible using gender neutral language. The idea that God actually has wings and feathers is rather silly, too.
I smiled at your reference to ‘a feathered friend’ 😉
So did i!
4. Since poetry is multi-layered, and since the Song is poetry, what does that teach you about how to interpret it correctly?
It tells me not to interpret it literally? If it is multi-layered, and I think it may have been Mike Reeves who said this, there is a bridegroom in The Song, and it may well have been Solomon, yet “this is no ordinary Jewish boy” – there is another bridegroom in the shadows. I have this quote written in my Bible on the opening page of The Song; I must have written it in there back when we first studied The Song and I’m not sure if this is from Dee or Reeves: “This is poetry…it’s drawing you in to taste, to savor, to sample, this love. In fact, you are explicitly invited to come and taste the viewpoints in the Song. It is contemplative. Enter into the enjoyment of this beauty.” This tells me not to read this like an historical account of something. It’s to be experienced with my senses…it’s rich, deep, mysterious and invites me to ponder over it.
I love that quote. I may need to write that in my Bible also!
I would love to do this bible study!
Welcome Dana! I think you will find this a wonderful community, a real place to belong!
Welcome Dana! We love to welcome new faces around the table…..in no time at all, you will feel like you have been here forever!
Come along, Dana. Welcome!
Welcome Dana.
May you feel as welcome here as I have felt over this past year and a half.
Welcome, Dana! So glad you will be joining us in the study.
Welcome Dana!! So glad to have you with us!
Welcome to the study Dana
5. What do you think Donne is communicating with this? What is the first level and what is the second?
He is talking about the love of God and our response to Him, on one level. He uses the phrase, “except You enthrall me”. To be enthralled with something or someone is to be captured entirely by it or him/her. On another level, he is talking about idolatry, and the power of God’s love to free us from it. He says “I shall never be free…never be chaste, or faithful”…unless You, God, enthrall me, ravish me. The poetic imagery here is very strong…it pictures a “heady” sort of love, intoxicating…to be “ravished” by love is strong language, intimate language. Some might be taken aback by that and think it is not respectful to picture God in this way, but He Himself uses the metaphor of marriage and adultery to describe His relationship with His people.
6. Are you shocked that Donne would ask God to “ravish” him? What do you think he means and how might this correspond to The Song?
I am not shocked; I don’t know much about Donne but he must have been a very deep sort of person and had many conversations, even wrestlings, with God, to write this. He must have been a man who knew the tendency of his own heart to wander away from his first love. Ravish means to seize, carry off by force, or to fill someone with intense delight. I also think of the words “decimate me”…but in a good way. Kill what is in me that wants to stray from You. Perhaps Donne realized that only a force as strong as God and His love was what he needed to overpower him and rescue him from his idols. The Song invites us to gaze at His beauty, His love for us…again, it was Reeves who said that if our love for Him is waning, we don’t try to whip-up more love for Him in ourselves; we look at His love for us and let that stir-up our affections for Him. How can I resist One who calls me beautiful, who woos me to come away with Him, who leaves myrhh dripping on my door knob?
WOW — This is great. I woke up with a functioning brain this morning (hadn’t realized the extent to which my body was impacting my ability to think). I’ve scanned the wonderful responses and also see that I already am WAY behind. Looks as if I will “sort of” start from the beginning because I don’t want to miss the Scripture in the early questions. I am excited — amazing how much less oppressive the physical stuff seems when I am not wandering around in a daze. Maybe even a daze is/was protective (?) because physical challenges are so evident this morning. But I am more curious and excited about this study than I am distracted by physical stuff. I have been secure in His love during the past months; I know that the peace I have experienced is related to what I learned when we studied SoS before. And if we only dipped our toes in the water before, I will look forward to wading and maybe even scuba diving this time 🙂
I’m feeling a little like I’m crashing a party as I’m jumping in mid-week after hiding for so long.
Yay Renee!! SOoooooo good to see you here!
🙂 Thanks, Jackie!
SO happy you are here, with your BRAIN!!!! I missed it while you were gone, and I need it to help me tackle this difficult (but important) book of the bible 🙂
Yay, Laura-d, we can do poetry together 😉 I was thinking about you as I was pondering some of the earlier questions — wondering about the process of putting together the technical, how-to aspects of dance and how/when the “magic”/ the art/ the message is integrated. i.e., where is the transition to when it “clicks?” Anyhow, it seemed to me that what you know about dance could teach us about poetry!
Funny you should mention this, Renee…I am pretty literal (as you must have guessed) and I am very choreographed. I decide on movement using the words of a piece (if the piece has words). My partner, however, is what they call a “prophetic” dancer. She prays, you put on music, and boy can she go! It’s all “improv.” I struggle with this, and she can’t stand the choreographed stuff 🙂 We compliment each other for sure! We are dancing together Jan 31 and there is a bit where we “go rogue!” pray for me.
Well, I’m not a dancer, but if I were, I also would be on the more choreographed end of the continuum. Laura, I’m wondering, even with the choreographed approach, if there is a point at which you are so familiar with what you are doing that you feel particularly moved by the dance. I think that happens to me in other areas of life; I work to the point I might be overly prepared. But nothing seems to change; I feel as if I have to work HARD and still don’t get [whatever]. And then suddenly, I find myself in a different space and barely aware of it. I almost forget that I ever struggled in a particular area.
To answer your question about being moved by the dance, the answer is yes! I love a piece we do to “Were You There?” for Good Friday; I get lost in it, especially if I hear a person in the congregation crying. This last piece was that way also; to scripture. It was moving for sure. I do get what you are saying. I can dance for joy and God because I know the moves without thinking. I love that feeling. I think my partner does that all the time because she doesn’t get caught up in trying to remember things, she just does them!
Laura, THIS: “I get lost in it… I can dance for joy and God because I know the moves without thinking.” So good. Thanks! Maybe this is what happens/will happen as we know Him more through SoS (even though it is poetry 😉 )
Love this conversation… I’m struck by the “comfort” of choreograph (i.e., knowing, control), yet the “joy” in allowing the Lord to take over, to move me…a lovely thought to ponder. Yes, Renee, I think you are right, this most definitely connects to SoS/poetic literature understanding.
HAPPY to read this! Was just praying for you this morning. Love knowing that your brain is back! 😉
😉
Never been a more welcome party crasher!
😀
Yes sweet Renee…I LOVE having you here..and I concur-never been a more welcome party crasher. :))
So so good to see you here, Renee!
Renee I smiled to see you here:)
7. One of the strengths of poetry is its word pictures, for word pictures are able to slip into the heart, helping us feel, and love the Lord with all our heart, or fear HIm, or trust Him. They also tend to be memorable. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you?
Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, andlearn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Well, I answered 2-4 right in this box and then pushed some weird button, and then another one, and lost my response. The questions were VERY helpful. I can see that this approach could save me A LOT of struggle and time spent wrestling about perceived conflicts.
Donne’s quote in preface: I like it — It might be good to refer to it again later in the study, to help the meaning soak in. In the preface, I don’t think it should be too threatening. My response to something like that in the preface likely would be one of the following: 1) Nice quote. 2) Weird, I wonder what that means — let’s get on with the book. The good thing about poetry in the preface is that I still am curious when I am reading the preface. Plus, poetry won’t shut me down, partly because I don’t know what it means and I’m not thinking too much 🙂 It provides a taste of what is to come, but wouldn’t lead me to tune out if I disagree.
6. Are you shocked that Donne would ask God to “ravish” him? Not until I saw this question, looked up the definition of the word, and saw that an additional meaning is “rape.” As I think about the entire meaning, in the context of poetry and love, and what I know about SoS, I am not shocked. But yeah, if this were prose, it would be pretty gross.
What do you think he means and how might this correspond to the Song? He trusted God so much, delighted in God so much and knew that God loved him, filled him with SO MUCH joy that he didn’t every want the lack of connection with God. Donne maybe was saying “You fill me with such joy and pleasure that I want you to take me. I don’t want to resist.” ??? He is saying (maybe???) that he had a relationship of complete trust in God and His love.
Kinda weird to me that a word can mean everything from enraptured joy to forcible seizure to rape. I can read this quote and see it in so many ways. It would be helpful to me to know exactly which definition Donne was using.
All, I suspect! ?? Seems that knowing God’s goodness and trusting Him completely would invite His force, KNOWING His love and even that He disciplines those He loves — the ultimate security. I’m not trusting enough to pray that (yet) though.
2. Let’s look at the same truth expressed first in prose and then in poetry. What does it say and what does it mean in each case?
A. 1 Peter 5:7
“Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.” This prose from Peter’s letter, written to encourage suffering Christians in the early church, encourages me also these many years later. These words help to keep me from caving into the circumstances I face in the world, and instead lean on the arms of the Lord who is in control of those circumstances.
B. Psalm 91:4
This poetic passage from Psalms, also indicates that God will take care of me and protect me. However, I don’t literally picture God in a bird-like form (with feathers and wings) and also holding a shield or being a rampart. All of that, if taken literally, would boggle the mind!
3. With the above example in mind, answer this:
A. What advantage does each genre have (prose and poetry)?
Prose can give me instruction or directions that are plain and clear, but maybe a bit devoid of emotional impact. Poetry gives me the feel — I can sense the warmth of feathers over me, even though intellectually I don’t equate God with a bird. Poetry provides me the emotional impact, as I can mentally image (but not believe literally) that God is deflecting my problems with a shield.
B. How could Psalm 91:4 be mis-interpreted if you didn’t see it as poetry?
I guess I have already incidentally covered this in my above responses. Misinterpreted literally, this passage would lead us to believe God is bird-like and carries a shield.
8. Let’s put our toe into the water with the opening of the 1st chapter, realizing we will plunge in fully after these intro weeks. But, see if you can see the multilayers in Song of Songs 1:1-4.Ha! I need lots of help here. 🙂 One layer I saw perhaps is that “virgins love you.” I wondered here if this, relating to Christ, is a sentiment that because His love is so deep and consuming that all idols fall away and virginity is pure because we wait for His love. And thinking it through as poetry, romantic love in its purest marriage bed sense is the only picture we as humans rightly have of the perfect intimacy at the deepest level. So the marriage picture helps us see the true oneness of Christ and His bride. But I may be way off. 🙂 I struggle with poetry.
A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king. joy. admiration.
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating
concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride? Purity. Devotion. Belief in this love.
C. How would Matt. 22:36-37 support this? That we are to love the Lord with ALL of ourselves.
D. Challenge question: If the Song were only about earthly marriage, what
problems might occur in interpreting, for example, verse 3? Well, maybe our spouse doesn’t have or know how to get anointing oils? And why? And why would I want a bunch of virgins loving my man. 🙂
Why would I want a bunch of virgins loving my man. 🙂
LOL!!!
Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you?
SO MANY! Here are a few:
‘He tends his flock like a shepherd; He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart; he gently leads those that have young.’ Is. 40: 11 This was such a comfort to me after my dad died, because when he was dying, he told us that he knew he was like the lamb that Jesus was holding, in the painting of Jesus the Good Shepherd that hung next to his bed.
“When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned for the flames will not set you ablaze.” Is. 43:1,2 I need these reminders frequently. For myself and in praying for others.
“See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me.” Isaiah 49:16 Though He is speaking to Israel as a people, I still apply this to His love and attentiveness to me personally. I love to think of myself held in His hand. Or my name engraved there. A friend of mine had a wooden carving of a child’s image carved into the hands of Jesus. It really impressed me.
“Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.” Psalms 119: 105 I think of this every time I take out the garbage at night in the total darkness (especially when the driveway is icy, as it is now) or when I’m camping in a state park and get up at night to use the bathroom. I don’t shine my flashlight around me. I ignore everywhere else and make sure it is lighting my steps, so I don’t trip and fall!
Wanda, that’s beautiful what your dad said about being like the lamb Jesus was holding…so glad you have that comforting memory.
This made me weepy Wanda:
“See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me.” Isaiah 49:16 Though He is speaking to Israel as a people, I still apply this to His love and attentiveness to me personally. I love to think of myself held in His hand. Or my name engraved there. A friend of mine had a wooden carving of a child’s image carved into the hands of Jesus. It really impressed me.
Holy Sonnets: Batter my heart, three-person’d God
BY JOHN DONNE
Batter my heart, three-person’d God, for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise and stand, o’erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurp’d town to another due,
Labor to admit you, but oh, to no end;
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captiv’d, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov’d fain,
But am betroth’d unto your enemy;
Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.
I love this poem. I copied the whole thing and am pondering it. It expresses the struggle that there is to turn to God. We can’t do it on our own. We are imprisoned to another and only God can set us free. Yet, amazingly, He does it by wooing us, winning us as a lover woos a reluctant virgin (though we in fact are betrothed to God’s enemy; we have chosen to sleep with sin). He is determined to capture our hearts. He wants all of us – soul, body and mind. I think of God’s picture through Hosea of marrying an adulteress and loving her in spite of her unfaithfulness.
This is SO good, Diane. Thanks for posting the whole poem. It really is easier to see when the whole context is there.
Thanks for posting the whole poem, Diane. I was pondering the quote yesterday, and thinking about how before we come to Christ, we are truly prisoners of Satan, kept in darkness, and I wondered about what kind of unseen spiritual battle goes on when God is about to bring that person out of Satan’s grasp and into His light? The enemy must not, I wonder, just “lie down” and let a person go free without a fight. The battle may indeed be fierce…so perhaps why this “violent” language of Donne?
Whoa Susan! That is a powerful reminder of the unseen spiritual battle we are daily in the midst of. I needed to see what you wrote this morning, as I have have just been praying for some lost souls in my own life….with no small sorrow. Somehow the way you put it just calmed my heart……for even though the battle may indeed be fierce…..if God is calling a person, they WILL come out of the darkness and into His Light! Amen. 🙂
That is SO helpful, Susan. I had not thought of this at all. But Donne probably did. I think, especially because he was noted as a metaphysical poet; dwelling on the ‘beyond the physical’ realm in his writings. Wow. Your comments really tie this together for me.
7. One of the strengths of poetry is its word pictures, for word pictures are able to slip into the heart, helping us feel, and love the Lord with all our heart, or fear HIm, or trust Him. They also tend to be memorable. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you?
Isaiah 40:31 “but they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength;
they shall mount up with wings like eagles;
they shall run and not be weary;
they shall walk and not faint.”
I just love this, Diane! It is a powerful word picture.
7. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you?
Jeremiah 17:8 (NLT): They are like trees planted along a riverbank, with roots that reach deep into the water. Such trees are not bothered by the heat or worried by long months of drought. Their leaves stay green, and they never stop producing fruit.
Wonderful words pictures!
7. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you? The parable of the sower (farm girl here). Even though I don’t know much about sheep, I do know a little about pasture and still (and raging, flooded) waters. Ps 23 might be the word picture that has impacted me the longest (also NT passages about Jesus as shepherd). These also had an impact because of the paintings I saw of (white guy) Jesus and sheep. I was thinking about this question and Ps 23 when I was driving to an appointment today. The image of goodness and mercy FOLLOWING me felt sorta spooky. All the agricultural images stuck with me.
8. A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king. passionate love that involved physical senses. I see hints of touch, taste, and smell in vs 2-3. Her feelings also involved wanting to be with him, to run with him
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride? A relationship that involves our entire being — not merely a mind game.
C. How would Matt. 22:36-37 support this? “all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” It’s interesting that body isn’t included in these verses. It’s not that loving God with our bodies is excluded in the NT — i.e., Rom 12.
D. Challenge question: If the Song were only about earthly marriage, what problems might occur in interpreting, for example, verse 3? My main problem with viewing this primarily as earthly marriage is in verse 4: OTHERS. Are these others who are extolling his love more than wine the same people as the virgins in vs. 3?? Um, this sounds as if it is moving toward polygamy or else voyeurism.
Question # 8 made me think that today might not have been the day to jump back in 🙂 I do okay with background verses, but even dipping my toe in the water is kinda unnerving! I am reminded that there is a reason that I avoided this book for so many years. It’s by God’s grace and Dee’s solid preparation that I got so much out of the study before because this still is mind-blowing.
Renee, dear Renee, please don’t let the unnerving stuff in the Song, scare you off! You are doing great! We are delighted to have you back!
Renee, for just “jumping back in” you sure are giving your brain quite a workout!
4. Since poetry is multi-layered, and since the Song is poetry, what does that teach you about how to interpret it correctly?
Not to interpret it literally, but to “feel” my way into its meaning – seeking deeper and going deeper.
As I see it, these next two questions are completely intertwined, so I am choosing to answer them with the same paragraph.
5. What do you think Donne is communicating with this? What is the first level and what is the second?
6. Are you shocked that Donne would ask God to “ravish” him? What do you think he means and how might this correspond to the Song?
There is a definite similarity between SOS and Donne’s Holy Sonnet in that each on the first level uses language that would seem to be about love in an intimate, sensual/sexual relationship. But on another level is referring to God’s strong love for us and how he draws us, mesmerizes us to bring us into a relationship with him so tightly that we could never/would never escape. If we are “ravished” by God, we are completely taken over by Him with nothing being held back.
7. One of the strengths of poetry is its word pictures, for word pictures are able to slip into the heart, helping us feel, and love the Lord with all our heart, or fear HIm, or trust Him. They also tend to be memorable. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you?
“Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil.” (Ps. 23 – I didn’t look this up, but I think I am quoting the King James Version that I originally memorized it from) 🙂
8. Let’s put our toe into the water with the opening of the 1st chapter, realizing we will plunge in fully after these intro weeks. But, see if you can see the multilayers in Song of Songs 1:1-4.
A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king.
She is completely smitten by him. She is dreaming of his kisses, and even his name seems like perfume. She is not holding back or being shy; she says “take me away with you!”
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride?
God longs for us to give ourselves to him without reservation – being unable to worship anything or anyone else.
C. How would Matt. 22:36-37 support this?
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”
In other words, Love God with every inch of your being, holding back nothing.
D. Challenge question: If the Song were only about earthly marriage, what
problems might occur in interpreting, for example, verse 3?
As others have already indicated, why would she be seeking a love relationship with someone who has “all the young girls” coming after him? There would be jealousy, I would think!
8A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king.
She is definitely “into” her man! He is better than wine, he is fragrant and wanted by virgins!
Jeez – Louise, how in the world do I pray out of this scripture???!
😉 Laura, I was hoping I could get away with praying I Peter 5:7 or Psalm 91:4 ! Or maybe take an itty bitty section “Draw me after you”
lol!! ?
Yeah, I am focusing on the name being like “oil poured out.” I think I could pray for His name to be the one I speak as often as possible? The one I think of continuously? I could manage that!
I really like your “itty bitty” section idea! I can manage that and maybe even understand it better!
Laura and Renee — the spice of our group.
How about praising Him for being better than wine?
Whew! Good idea. Thanks, Dee 😉
Thank you everyone for your input in regards to poetry. I really haven’t read any poetry since high school which was a long time ago. 🙂 I look forward to studying with you all!
Liz, I can relate to that (and I tuned out during the high school poetry because I didn’t get it!). The only poetry I remember is the rhyme-y stuff I memorized in first grade 🙂 If it wasn’t set to music, there was no hope for me.Now I’m seeing that I have missed SO MUCH. Glad you will be going on this journey with us 🙂
7. One of the most significant word pictures in my life has been and continues to be that of the shepherd. Isaiah 40:11 paints it well:
Like a shepherd
He will tend His flock,
In His arm
He will gather the lambs
And carry them in His bosom;
He will gently lead the nursing ewes.
At times in my life when I most needed comforting, I sensed his presence in this way. Humble, gentle, strong, sufficient. Paradox of His presence. Sometimes when I least expected it and most needed it.
Word pictures have a way of, “slipping into our heart,” as Dee said. We can find ourselves less resistant to something, if it is drawn or written or sung in such a way that gets past our defenses or doubts.
7. One other thought about this question. Our very lives can be a word picture. After I got in bed just now, I remembered this Michael Card song from his Poemia album, entitled The Poem of Your Life:
Life is a song we must sing with our days
A poem with meaning more than words can say
A painting with colors no rainbow can tell
A lyric that rhymes either heaven or hell
We are living letters that doubt desecrates
We’re the notes of the song of the chorus of faith
God shapes every second of our little lives
And minds every minute as the universe waits by
CHORUS:
The pain and the longing
The joy and the moments of light
Are the rhythm and rhyme
The free verse of the poem of life
So look in the mirror and pray for the grace
To tear off the mask, see the art of your face
Open your ear lids to hear the sweet song
Of each moment that passes and pray to prolong
Your time in the ball of the dance of your days
Your canvas of colors of moments ablaze
With all that is holy With the joy and the strife
With the rhythm and rhyme of the poem of your life
With the rhythm and rhyme of the poem of your life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sjb2AhGoi0
This is beautiful, Nila. Michael Card is one of very few Christian artists that I like because the words of his songs mean something! Much like Rich Mullens, too.
Great place to insert the Michael Card son, Nila! This enhances the whole week.
This song gives me chills (in a good way). Michael Card’s songs are so chocked full of meaning. The words “dance of your days” jumped out this morning as I think of our Laura and her dance. We are all dancing. Let us hope our dance is glorifying God and “rhyming” heaven as we dance before God and others.
Perfect, Nila.
Thanks, Nila. This is wonderful. I just listened several times on youTube. I’m also amazed at how the music helps the poetry sink in. I also was curious when I saw “A Violent Grace” come up next in YouTube. Most of that song is about the violence Jesus experienced. Yet this is the chorus:
So ruthless He loves us, So reckless His embrace
To show relentless kindness to a hardened human race
The joy that was before Him
On the Man of Sorrow’s faceAnd by His blood He bought a violent grace
Somehow (but not in a way that I want to articulate!) the violence Jesus bore because of His love for us seems to make more sense of the violence in His love for us. I wonder how Donne got so smart! (might have to take 10 minutes to look at his bio)
Love this song Nila!! I tried to read the words and take something from it, but I struggled. When I listened to the music it became apparent how good it is! I love Michael Card 🙂 Thanks!
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride?
Just a mention from our study before….the one thing I learned (jk), the title of the book is The Song of Songs. In other words, the best song of all ????
I suppose He wants us to be fully in love with Him? I’m stuck this morning on the phrase about His name being like “oil poured out.” I suppose when oil is poured it flows freely? His name flows freely? In other words He is all I can speak of all the time? Hmmm….I feel that way sometimes; in fact during school yesterday, I couldn’t help myself. I felt the need to invite 2 of my colleagues to join us in the bible study! They are not Christians at all, but I do care about their souls and would love for them to know Jesus and how much He loves them. It is what is missing in our lives, I’m sure of it. I stepped out on a limb and hoped I didn’t offend, upset, overstep, etc. One of them doesn’t understand how I have “made it” through everything I have been through the past few years and I told her in the invite that the reason was studying the bible and focusing my attention on something way more important than me. I hope they participate (at least read the blog a few times) but I don’t think they will. It doesn’t hurt to try, right?
Laura, I know you like to listen to Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss…here’s a link to a transcript of a past program she did and it was a series on The Song of Songs. In this particular one, if you scroll down near the bottom, she talks about the meaning of His name being like “ointment” – that’s the translation she is using, poured out. Here’s the link:https://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/revive-our-hearts/initial-love-1-let-him-kiss-me/. I do like the ointment translation, as I think of an ointment as being like a healing salve; soothing, healing, fragrant. Hope this helps!
Laura, I wish I could give you a hug for following the Holy Spirit’s leading to invite 2 of your colleagues to join us. You are being an evangelist from the most winsome of motives. Your life, how you have “made it” through the tough times in the last few years has spoken loudly to them and now you are saying to them “It is because of Jesus”. This is so cool that I just want to dance with you!!!! And God knows their hearts. It is Him that is drawing them! You are simply working with Him and saying “Come and see!”
LOVE those words, Laura. That has to provoke some thinking. 🙂
Laura, I feel sure that your co workers see you being transformed, that you are different, and that it plants a seed in their hearts…sometimes seeds take a long time to germinate 🙂
?
7. One of the strengths of poetry is its word pictures, for word pictures are able to slip into the heart, helping us feel, and love the Lord with all our heart, or fear Him, or trust Him. They also tend to be memorable. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you?
Psalm 18:16-19: “He reached down from on high and took hold of me; He drew me out of deep waters. He rescued me from my powerful enemy, from my foes, who were too strong for me…He brought me out into a spacious place; He rescued me because He delighted in me.” I can just imagine situations in which I feel overwhelmed, drowning, helpless, and the Lord reaching down and taking ahold of me, lifting me out and up and setting me down in a safe place. It also pictures salvation to me.
Psalm 119:32: “I run in the path of Your commands, for You have set my heart free.” For some reason, I always picture God as a loving Father walking behind His child who is running and skipping on ahead of Him, and He is smiling and delighting in her. This is so much more and different from “rule following because I have to, I should, I’m supposed to…” It is being free in His love and wanting to run in His ways.
Love these word pictures, Susan. I too love the imagery of God reaching down to pull us up when we are drowning, but the picture of being His child running and skipping ahead of Him as He smiles is so beautiful. I had not pictured it that way before.
Susan – great word pictures! Your reference to Psalm 119:32 reminded me of yet another favorite of mine, from Isaiah 30;20&21″And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, yet your Teacher will not hide himself anymore, but your eyes shall see your Teacher. And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying ‘This is the way, walk in it’, when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left.” Forward, free motion. A good friend of mine used to say “God hits a moving target”! and I used to wonder if that could mean getting out in front of God!!?? But I think we are bathed in the Word and prayer….there IS this joyful delight you speak of!! We are free to run, to walk…..and He is faithfully behind us, gently shepherding us along…..such great thoughts to ponder!! 🙂
8. Let’s put our toe into the water with the opening of the 1st chapter, realizing we will plunge in fully after these intro weeks. But, see if you can see the multilayers in Song of Songs 1:1-4.
A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king.
She is enraptured by him, fully surrendered to him, for she has experienced his love and it is better than anyone or anything this earth can offer.
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating
concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride?
That we too are captivated by him-that our response to His love for us would be like hers.
8. A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king.
Oh how she loves him and is mesmerized with his presence; he is like no other to her.
6. Are you shocked that Donne would ask God to “ravish “him? What do you think he means and how might this correspond to the Song?
First of all….I can scarcely say how much I have gleaned from reading so many great entries here on this question! I have had “context” drilled into my head for so long that I spent a lot of time yesterday looking at and pondering the entire poem. Thanks to Diane for sharing it in it’s entirety here on the blog – very helpful! Like a lot of you, I looked at that Latin word “rapere” and was fascinated that both “rape” and “rapture” directly descend from that root word. In the end, I couldn’t quite bend toward “rapture” alone as Donne’s meaning here. I don’t think we need to try to pretty up the violence that I think Donne probably well intended. After all, the very first phrase is “Batter my heart, three-personed God….” it is hard to dress up the word batter – “pound repeatedly, beat persistently and hard…” were just a few of the definitions I looked at. More of Donne’s words from this poem “Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new” – the Scriptures are replete with God’s continual molding of us and “break, blow,burn” all fit well within the thought of the Refiner’s fire. That Spurgeon quote that Angela shared is pure gold: “I have learned to kiss the waves that throw me up against the Rock of Ages”.
That said, now I’ve backed myself into a corner in trying to make that interpretation fit into the Song. Hmmm. The only violence I’m recalling in the Song is when the Shulamite maiden was beaten by the watchmen? Which is not fitting at all…..I will have to come back to this part of the question I guess!
Good points, Jackie. “I couldn’t quite bend toward “rapture” alone as Donne’s meaning here. I don’t think we need to try to pretty up the violence that I think Donne probably well intended. After all, the very first phrase is “Batter my heart, three-personed God….” it is hard to dress up the word batter – “pound repeatedly, beat persistently and hard…” were just a few of the definitions I looked at.” I agree. And how to fit this with Song of Songs, I too will have to ponder more.
7. Can you think of a word picture from the Scripture that has impacted you?
Oh my. In most of 1 Corinthians 10, Paul is looking back to the Israelites wandering in the wilderness and repeatedly tells us that they are an example for us. My chosen word picture comes from that portion of the Scripture: Deuteronomy 32:9-12 says: “But the Lord’s portion is his people. Jacob his allotted heritage. He found him in a desert land, and in the howling waste of the wilderness; he encircled him, he cared for him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. Like an eagle that stirs up its nest, that flutters over its young, spreading out its wings, catching them, bearing them on its pinions, the Lord alone guided him, no foreign god was with him.”
Walking with Jesus for quite a few years now, I have found that I am trusting Him more and more with the terrifying parts of this life. This particular week, for instance, He has been calling me to walk more closely with a young woman who is on the precipice of dying from the very cancer that my daughter has. Though my daughter has had a bit of a reprieve of late, I am seeing up close and personal, the grim and grueling reality of end stage cancer as I try to help my friend. Neither young woman knows or loves Jesus….and I am terrified for them. Also – my son who is an alcoholic seems to be diving into the pit even more deeply – in fact, driving drunk to our home on New Year’s Eve…..he also does not know Jesus….am I terrified for him? Absolutely. And that is just the tip of the iceberg of this week’s terrors – as we all have our heartaches and terrors.
But I have an unshakeable foundation in the Providence of my God. I can trust Him – no matter WHAT the “stirring of the nest” may manifest as! Here is what I so love from this word picture: he “flutters” over me! The same word is used here as the Spirit “hovering” over the waters in the Creation account. I can hear and feel the flutters of the Spirit all around me even in the trials of life…..I may be heartsick….but He is here….His “wings” brushing up against me when I feel I cannot go on. And then sometimes it’s not just walking forward with a broken heart….it’s actually free fall!! Ah but He spreads his wings….he catches me! He bears me on his pinions….he carries the weight because I cannot. This word picture is inexpressibly precious to me almost on a daily basis.
All of these thoughts of flying…..Dee I cannot help but think about your Steve prophesying that you would “fly so free”……and that came at SUCH a terrible season of suffering. I guess that was on my mind already with Wanda’s reference to just finishing “God of All Comfort”. Your life is such a powerful example to us all of perseverance in Christ. 🙂
Hugs to you, jackie. And prayers for you and your suffering loved ones – especially for their salvation. I love how you explained that verse, “Like an eagle that stirs up its nest, that flutters over its young, spreading out its wings, catching them, bearing them on its pinions, the Lord alone guided him”. God be with you in the free fall, my friend.
Jackie, what a POWERFUL verse. I’ve never noticed the “stirs up its nest” phrase. Praying that God will continue to strengthen, encourage, and comfort you as your nest is stirred and as you impact the lives of so many. <3
Jackie, I had to come back and re-scroll through tonight. I’m so struck by the examples you used here and about the Spirit hovering as the eagle flutters over the nest. And then carrying us. Your load is so heavy now. And your confidence in your unshakable foundation; so exemplary. I know you know how much we care for you and your heartaches. And we’ve often said that we could sit and share these burdens with one another so freely, if we had the treasure of meeting in person. Yet, even here; in this place; we will continue to lift you up.
Jackie, your post just blows me away. I admit that as I prayed for your friend, the thought that she has the same disease as your own daughter, and how hard that must be for you to “stare that in the face”, did occur to me. So much heartache. Yet you trust, you persevere, you cling to His promises. We ache with you, Jackie, and continue to pray.
Jackie, words elude me…my heart aches for you, for your friend, for your daughter, for those loved that have not accepted the gift of the Lord’s grace freely offered. I can’t help but be in awe of your trust, faith, and reliance on the Lord in the many heartaches and terrors…”I may be heartsick…but He is here…” So thankful that you are turning to the only One who can provide you peace. Blessings dear sister, you are in my thoughts and you and yours in my prayers.
oh dear Jackie, how we are blessed to know you, to see you cling to Him in the unknown and model that beauty that comes from the refinement of fire–“I have found that I am trusting Him more and more with the terrifying parts of this life” We love you and as Wanda said, continue to lift you up
I love this jackie! “…he “flutters” over me! …I can hear and feel the flutters of the spirit all around me even in the trials of life.”
Oh my, Jackie — how you will empathize with this young woman. Prayers for you.
Jackie ~ Thank you for the words you wrapped around this: I may be heartsick….but He is here….His “wings” brushing up against me when I feel I cannot go on. And then sometimes it’s not just walking forward with a broken heart….it’s actually free fall!! Ah but He spreads his wings….he catches me!
He. Remains. Faithful.
No matter where. No matter when. No matter what.
Cha-ching! I just had to tell you that once again, the Holy Spirit comes through to MY man 🙂 We got a check today from my second job that was unexpected when we needed the money so badly….if you have been here you know that my husband is on the cusp of believing that God will take care of us always. He struggles being worried about money all the time. I tell him that God won’t let us down. He loves us. He will provide. He tries to believe but is burdened by his idol. Thank You Jesus for never letting us down and for always watching over us. Amen.
oh Laura–this so blessed me to read! What a praise! Thank you for sharing–smiling and praising with you! LOVE how He works!
Woo hoo! Celebrating and praising God with you!
Wow laura! Yes God so loves to kiss us!! :)))) I am so happy for you both and for how God is revealing Himself to your husband too! 🙂
How encouraging, Laura…YAY!!! Indeed, “Thank You Jesus for never letting us down and always watching over us.”
Oh Laura – celebrating yet another moment when God “broke in” to your world and the timing of His provision is hard to deny! Praying that your husband’s eyes will see this so clearly….and that his heart will be warmed more and more toward Jesus! 🙂 Love your boldness in proclaiming the faithfulness of our God….even when the way forward doesn’t seem so clear! You are living your faith out loud in the nitty gritty dailiness of life – yay!
Hey everyone, I’m waiting for someone else to post their notes so that I don’t have to write 😉
I’ll bet your mother read The Strong-Willed Child. 🙂
haha … might have come out too late to be helpful 😉
8. Let’s put our toe into the water with the opening of the 1st chapter, realizing we will plunge in fully after these intro weeks. But, see if you can see the multilayers in Song of Songs 1:1-4.
A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king.
She is in love with him, intoxicated by him. The language is rich and sensory…his kisses, his love, is more delightful than wine. She loves the smell of his perfume, the smell of him…his name is like perfume poured out. She is anxious for him to take her away with him, to be brought into his chambers.
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride?
That we love Him more, find more delight in Him than with anything temporal. It reminds me of David’s words in Psalm 4, “You have filled my heart with greater joy than when their grain and new wine abound.” God was better than the finest feast. He wants to be our first, our best, love.
C. How would Matt. 22:36-37 support this?
These verses, said by Jesus Himself, say that the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. I must ask myself, what does my heart long for, have its affections set on? Is it God, or something else? What satisfies or fills the longings of my soul; do I try to fill the emptiness with things other than God? What do I think about the most? Am I preoccupied with acquiring material things, getting approval, things that in the end don’t really matter? Or does He dominate my thoughts?
D. Challenge question: If the Song were only about earthly marriage, what problems might occur in interpreting, for example, verse 3?
I’m thinking the problem would be with the line, “No wonder the maidens love you”? The cross ref is Psalm 45:14, “In embroidered garments she is led to the king; her virgin companions follow her and are brought to you.” But I’m assuming that in those days, these maidens/virgin companions of the bride were the norm? I’d be interested to know what word for “love” is used here…if it just means that these ladies are happy for the bride and and they also admire and approve of the man she is to marry, then that’s not a bad thing. (Phileo love – friendship kind of love?) I could say that I “love” my friend’s husband – not in an erotic way but that he is a good man and he is good to her and they are happy together.
Good thoughts, Susan on “Therefore the virgins love you.” The Hebrew is “passionate” love here — so that is what makes it problematic if it is just about earthly marriage.
This moved me in Job 19:25-27this morning:
For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!
I remember this Mike Reeves video and Oh…you MUST watch it. I want to post my notes but they are too long and I don’t have time to edit. 🙂 I can if no one else is able to.
8. Song of Songs 1:1-4
A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king. She is smitten. She also knows that he is worthy of adoration (therefore virgins love you). Just his name causes her to breathe in and see life differently.
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride? He wants us to see He is worthy of adoration. That just His name would have us breathe in and see life different. His love is better than wine, better than the good things of this life, better than the temporary feel-good you get from wine. “Draw me after you” His love makes us want more, He must draw us after Him to experience more, we must be humble to follow.
C. How would Matt. 22:36-37 support this? If we are commanded to love God with all we have then 1. A reaction similar to breathing in fragrance and letting it envelop you is not far fetched. And 2. He must be really GOOD. I know God gives commands for us to love Him and love others, but He only tells us to love HIM with all we have, to throw ourselves into Him fully (not what He can give us but who He is).
D. Challenge question: If the Song were only about earthly marriage, what problems might occur in interpreting, for example, verse 3? I do not see a problem here We are covetous by nature…. to have virgins (those without husbands) love her bridegroom to me is just a compliment and “proof” that he really is wonderful and desirable. When my husband asked me out there were a few girls who were mad because they had had their eye on him. Maybe I am missing something in the verse, maybe I am only seeing the first layer, but none of the translations indicate a relationship with the virgins, merely admiration from them….? But He has chosen her.
7. One of the strengths of poetry is its word pictures, for word pictures are able to slip into the heart, helping us feel, and love the Lord with all our heart, or fear Him, or trust Him. They also tend to be memorable. Can you think of a word picture from Scripture that has impacted you?
This one. It repeatedly levels my self sufficiency and puts my hope where it belongs.
Revelation 3 “17
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.”
8. Let’s put our toe into the water with the opening of the 1st chapter, realizing we will plunge in fully after these intro weeks. But, see if you can see the multilayers in Song of Songs 1:1-4.
It is written both ‘to’ and ‘about’ and describes wonder.
Her love isn’t exclusive, she talks of the virgins running after him and switches I wonder if the “let us run” is meant to be inclusive of the virgins?
A. Describe the feelings this peasant woman has for this earthly king. She is intoxicated with him, there is nothing better, nothing to compare.
B. We understand earthly love – but what might this be communicating concerning what God longs for from us, His Bride?
That His love isn’t an illusion an initial burst of passion that will mellow or fade away completely like earthly loves, His love REALLY IS what we are longing for and the only thing solid enough to support the weight of our hopes. He wants us to desire Him more than anything else.
C. How would Matt. 22:36-37 support this? 36“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
If we love something completely our affections won’t be wasted on rivals. If I am deeply madly in love, I am not going to be flirting with other options.
I want to be single-minded in this way. If I am loving God in a consuming way, I will love others well and wisely too. Instead of using them to meet my needs.
10. WOW on my 2nd time around with the video! it is SO good! here are my notes as I listen…stream of thought, might be hard to follow!
a. bride = vineyard
b. union with Christ
c. King Jesus coming to claim HIS bride, the bride says ALL I am i give to you and all i have i share with you and an ordinary girl becomes a QUEEN.
d. we enjoy the great marriage swap…we get all that is his, his glory, life, salvation and HE gets our shame and sin.
my beloved is mine and I am HIS…HOW? the king says “I take you” and we say “i will”
e. having sinful behavior is dif. then having a rightious status. we can go to him with a “boldness” “happy confidence”. I have always seen boldness as a prideful thing to have, I LOVE how he calls it “happy confidence!
f. what is she interested in??? what he gives??? NO who HE IS! She just wants HIM. THE BENEFIT of being a christian is CHRIST!
g. We use HIM as a get out of hell free card. we use HIM instead of enjoying having a relationship WITH HIM. It is about ENJOYING CHRIST and allowing others in.
h. the GOSPEL….ENTERING A LOVING RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM
I loved this video! I am not sure to say about it except I am in worship. Our union with Christ is amazing. Oh to just sit in His shadow.
Love your responses to this video. I’m praying he will let me use it in the curriculum!
10. Watch and share notes and comments.
I remember watching this before – it is wonderful, not to be missed! Here are my notes:
SOS 2:16 “My beloved is mine and I am his”. The Song used to be widely read but ignored today…”just a romance”.
It’s a story of a lady who is in love with the king. This is no ordinary king. This king is a shepherd-king. In SOS 3:6 the king arrives for his wedding. He arrives like a “column of smoke from the wilderness” – sound familiar? Look at Exodus 31…it’s the Lord. He is not just wearing cologne, it’s a myrrh-frankincense combination. An ordinary guy wouldn’t wear perfume like this. Myrrh was used in anointing oil to consecrate the high priest and to prepare bodies for burial. Frankincense was used in the sacred incense burned in the temple. So here is this king, like “a dead high priest waving incense”.
The girl keeps being compared to a vineyard. The king, who is a shepherd; the Lord, who is the high priest who dies, who wins the bride, who is like a vineyard – this is Christ and His church. The Song is about the romance between Christ and His Bride, it’s about union with Christ.
SOS 2:16 – in a few short words, it sums up the gospel, which is the story of King Jesus coming to claim his bride. This ordinary girl becomes a queen as He gives her all that is his. Read Ephesians 5 – we are the Bride of Christ. He asks, will you love, cherish, and obey Me? Christ took all that was ours – our sin, debt, judgment, and we got all that was His – righteousness, glory, salvation. Becoming a Christian means Christ wears your crown – the crown of thorns; you wear His crown, the crown of glory. He puts on the filthy rags of your sin, shame, and you put on His robe of life, blessing, and honor. How did this girl get all this blessing? Only when the king took her as his wife. Just so, we only get all the blessing by simple acceptance…”I will”.
It’s always good to remember that marriage story at the heart of the gospel. It means that I shouldn’t base my confidence before God on my behavior, because having sinful behavior is different than having righteous status. When Martin Luther, the Reformer, read this verse, he said it means the sinner can confidently display her sins in the face of death and hell and say, “If I have sinned, yet my Christ in whom I have believed has not sinned, and all His is mine, and all mine is His…” Do you see the happy boldness that this can give us?
Luther also said, “When the devil throws up our sins at us and declares that we deserve death and hell, we ought to speak thus: I admit that I deserve death and hell, what of it? Does this mean I will merit eternal damnation? By no means, for I know One who has made satisfaction and suffered on my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, and where He is, there I shall be also.”
We get even more from our verse. Notice how the girl speaks to the king. She says, “My Beloved” is mine. Think of all the stuff she gets from marrying the king – gold, servants, power. But in The Song, she never seems interested in thsoe things. What is she interested in? Look at SOS 2:3, “With great delight, I jsut sat in His shadow.” SOS 2:8, “The voice of my beloved; behold, he comes!” What she wants, with all her heart, is HIM.
The benefit of union with Christ, is Christ. What happens when you forget the benefit of being a Christian is Christ? What does the gospel become if something else is the real benefit of becoming a Christian? Little more than eternal fire insurance. Then, rather than entering a loving relationship with Christ, we use Him as our “sordid little get out of hell free card”. If we merely get some salvation from Christ, but don’t think that salvation is to know and enjoy Him, we are using Christ for our own ends. Christ buys us heaven; thanks Jesus, You can go now.
Too often, Christian evangelism is horribly tainted by this. You hear: You’re a sinner, God will punish you. Jesus takes the punishment so now you can get heaven. So, I may feel grateful, but I don’t necessarily love Christ at all. I’m seeing Christian lives wrecked by this. When I see wearied, joyless Christians, I wonder if this could be the issue; that they’re living as if Christianity is all about being rescued from hell and simply trying to drag as many people out with you. Not much fun, when in truth, being a Christian is about enjoying Christ and letting others in to enjoy Him too.
The gospel is not some deal to buy us stuff; its about entering a loving relationship with a living God. He gives us HIMSELF.
So much good stuff to ponder from Reeve’s message. I so need to be reminded of the message that the gospel, while certainly it is about the problem of my sin and how it separates me from God, and that I cannot pay for my own sin and make myself right with God, is so much more than that. It is about this mystery of a marriage, which earthly marriage is a shadowy picture of, but essentially, it is about my being able to enjoy Him. It reminded me of 1 John, where John is so eager for others to experience this fellowship with God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. Looking at Jesus as my heavenly Bridegroom opens a whole new way of seeing Him, and also a whole new way of seeing me and my own heart. It puts the divisions of my own heart, the other things that I love, that I have to admit at times that I love more than Him, in a whole new light. It helps me to understand why the Lord called the Israelites unfaithful, adulterous. It’s not just them, it’s me, too.
THANK YOU, SUSAN. THIS is wonderful. I know I can’t type out notes like this anymore. 🙂
Now I will listen again, WITH your notes at hand.
Great notes, Susan…thank you. Yes, I do remember…so good!
I have been trying to get to the final questions in these past few days….but have been somewhat stopped in my tracks by a book that I am reading as a complement to our study of the Song. It is entitled “Song of Solomon” by George Burrowes, first published in 1853 and highly spoken of by Spurgeon. A later edition (obviously!! 😉 ) has a forward written by Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones and that was what connected me to this book. Stopped me in my tracks is not too strong a statement. I am generally a bit of a speed reader and need to go back and re-read “good stuff” for a deeper understanding. There simply is no way around “slow reading” this particular gem of a book though! WOW. I feel as though the author has personally taken me by the hand and is leading me to plunge deeply into the Song…..and all the while weaving throughout the whole of the Scriptures and helping me to pause and see the wonder of the wholeness throughout!! I’m already thinking that this somewhat obscure book is going to end up in my lifetime “top 5”!
At the end of this turbulent week, Dee, I am eternally grateful that you are leading us back to the Song…..and all of it’s delights!
Jackie: You always seem to have just the right book in your hands. 🙂 Extensive library of your own, or quick access to good books, or reading on a device? It seems to take me months (sometimes years) to acquire the books that I long to read about a certain topic. And I’ve spent a small fortune lately, buying up many more. Wish I had your speed reading capabilities! I am SLOW all the way around : -) I love hearing your recommendations!