AFTER CENTURIES,
THE ROAD FROM FATHER KNOWS BEST
TO MODERN FAMILY HAS BEEN SHOCKINGLY SHORT
AND WHEN THE FAMILY,
THE CELL OF SOCIETY,
UNRAVELS,
SO DOES THE WORLD.
(For those interested, here’s an excellent secular article from a British scholar)
THE EFFECTS OF REDEFINING THE FAMILY
BUT THIS ISN’T JUST ABOUT REDEFINING MARRIAGE,
IT IS ABOUT A LACK OF RESPECT WITHIN THE FAMILY.
IT’S ABOUT CHILDREN NOT HONORING THEIR PARENTS.
IT’S ABOUT PARENTS NOT HONORING GOD’S PLAN TO TRAIN THEIR CHILDREN
IT’S ABOUT WIVES NOT RESPECTING THEIR HUSBANDS
IT’S ABOUT HUSBANDS NOT SACRIFICING FOR THEIR FAMILIES
WHY IS IT THAT WHEN THE FAMILY UNRAVELS,
THE WORLD UNRAVELS?
BECAUSE WE’VE UPSET GOD’S NATURAL ORDER.
I LIVE ON A GREAT LAKE.
HOW I REMEMBER DECADES OF
DEAD ALEWIVES COVERING THE SHORE
They fouled the air, they fouled the beauty, and they changed our world. In the sixties and seventies, we would gather their slimy bodies, staring at us with their glassy eyes, and carry buckets of them to pits the men had dug to bury them. What happened? Man had upset the ecological balance. There are different theories, but all have to do with upsetting God’s natural ecological balance. Sea Lampreys, who are native to the Atlantic Ocean, not the Great Lakes, entered the Great Lakes through man-made locks and shipping canals. The Sea Lampreys preyed on Lake Trout, which are the natural predator to the alewives. Man also over-fished the Lake Trout, ignoring fishing restrictions. More stocking of Lake Trout and stricter enforcement of fishing restrictions has stopped the plague, though we can still have an occasional horrible day of dead alewives floating in.
God has told us to care for the earth, and when we don’t, there are grave consequences. Likewise God gave instructions for the family, which He designed. Many of those instructions can be found here in Proverbs. When we ignore them, it is not just we who suffer, but the whole of society, in ways we cannot even imagine. Who would have thought that letting in the Sea Lamprey or going over your limit in Lake Trout would lead to so much death and defilement?
God told us this unraveling would happen in the last days, but we can live differently in our families. Jesus told us:
Sunday Icebreaker:
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Monday-Wednesday Bible Study
2. What does Proverbs 23:22 tell us to do? In your life, right now, how would you apply this? What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them? How can gazing at the gospel help you?
3. This is related to the 5th commandment that comes with a promise. According to Deuteronomy 5:16, what is the promise?
4. In the sermon by Keller this week, he has an interesting take on the above. He doesn’t think the promise is that you will have long life, but rather, that it may go well with you in the land you are being given, for you, and for future generations. In others words, when we don’t honor our parents, the family begins to unravel, and then the society unravels, and life becomes cursed. Agree or disagree and why?
5. Read Proverbs 21 in its entirety and share anything that quickens you.
6. Read Proverbs 21:9, 19 and 27:15.
A. Use the word pictures to help you explain how nagging affects a husband.
B. How does it show a lack of respect?
C. What is the difference between submitting a request and nagging?
D. What idol do you think is at the root of nagging and how could you replace it? What do you have to believe about God in order to not nag?
7. Read Proverbs 22 in its entirety and share anything that quickens you.
8. Jay Adams translates Proverbs 22:6 as “Allow a child to have his own way and when he is old he will still want his own way.” That’s the opposite side of the same truth. Discipine bad behavior and see good fruit — neglect bad behavior and see bad fruit.There are plenty of other proverbs and verses that warn parents to discipline and train their children such as Proverbs 13:14; 23:13-14; Ephesians 6:4) Given all this, how would you summarize a parent’s calling?
Optional Activity:
When I was a young mother I listened to sermons that helped me set and keep boundaries with children. I don’t have those sermons, but I recommend both Paul Tripp’s curriculum for parents, and also Alistair Begg’s sermons on The Gospel Coalition on this. For those interested (completely optional — I realize this may not be relevant to many) here is the link — and they are free.
Training Your Children Well, Part One
Training Your Children Well, Part Two
Thursday-Friday Sermon (Not Free, But Excellent)
9. What notes or comments do you have in regard to any of the above sermons?
Saturday
10. What is your take-a-way and why?
180 comments
1. What stands out? First, how rapidly things truly have gone on a downward spiral! I mean, TV is just TV (not real, the girl who played “Kitten” was sexually abused by her father, he life spun out of control, but thankfully she became a Christian and wrote a book called Father Does Know Best) but it truly is a reflection of what society will accept and tolerate and now the commercials we see on TV should be “R” rated!! The family unit is broken beyond repair, apart from the redemptive work of Christ in the lives of His children, and I do think it is evidence of the “last days” in which we are living. All of this reminded me of 2 Timothy 3: 1-5, “1But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.” -NASB
interesting to hear about ‘Kitten’, Mary. She was one of those little TV girls we all wanted to be like, right? I remember thinking that anyway.
Sunday Icebreaker:
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Wow, Dee! Quite a few things stood out to me:
1. The title-When the family unravels-reading this almost gave me a heartache and a cold washing over. Not that mine is unraveling but some who I care about so much are starting to unravel or MAY do so because of what is going on right now in their individual lives. Such pain if only it has been nip in the bud.
2. I have not watched both TV shows you mentioned here but just watched Bright Eyes starring Shirley Temple. Joy, the other child was a spoiled rotten daughter who got her way by sulking and demanding what she wants-no wonder-she has parents who has not honored their responsibility to train their children.
3.
And when the family, the cell unit of society unravels, so does the world. My sister, Grace cancer was spindle shaped-normal shapes in the body that went awry and later, so did her body. Cancer was not included in God’s original plan. It has caused the unraveling of the body and to many like my sister, has caused her death.
4. The picture of the two birds had me smiling or loudly laughing inside. Oh, that I should not be a contentious wife! I may need to copy and paste that picture to remind me.
5. Alewives-wow-what a play on words! How about alehusbands?
I posted and it did not show up! I must of done something to trigger a check?
Mary E. That has happened to me (and others…Wanda?). The wandering post, comes and goes as it pleases! Don’t think there is any fix for it? But it’s lovely to see your face this morning! =)
I don’t know Mary, but I had to approve it. Mystery to me too if you had signed in!
oops, spoke too soon, there it is!
Nope, now it’s gone again!
Mary, That happens to me occasionally too but I have learned the issue is usually my computer-or browser I am using. So keep trying or refresh your page-back out completely and then click on your browser again and google Dee Brestin blog and go from there-see if that fixes it. :))
Good morning, ladies. Mary, what Rebecca mentioned has happened to me…for some reason my page re-loads after I have clicked submit and when that occurs I lose my comment.
what stood out to you from the above and why? The birds. Yikes! How often do I squawk at people (usually the people closest to me… husband, kids…) instead of being patient and graceful?! That will stick with me…
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
The road has been shockingly short. I have talked about this moral slide with friends. Thinking about the Brady Bunch Parents being mildly scandalous for being the first TV couple who had one bed instead of two. To the steamy scenes on television now in about a 40 year span, who would have guessed?
And the stupidity of TV and movie dads! Especially in shows aimed at children the parents are so often clueless, the kids are usually the ones who save the day.
The lack of respect is alarming.
The Bible call us to respect our father and husbands even when we disagree. This can be really a battle but I have found that when I have been obedient in this, when I stopped trying to manage my husband like a puppet or a child, God has actually changed him 🙂
The other thing that stood out to me were the lampreys 😮
We had an encyclopedia when I was growing up with a picture of a lamprey with it’s round awful mouthing it’s “large rasping teeth”. I was afraid to go in Lake Erie for years!
The tile was like a knife going thru my heart. Tomorrow is my 30th wedding anniversary. My marriage is unraveling. I know I have a part and have had many years of tears, prayers, counseling, trying harder, condemning myself, pain, suffering, it has been a long process of unraveling. We are unequally yoked. Yet in the beginning too we never really started off on solid ground. I came to the Lord almost 20 years ago which intensified the discord. My heart so wants to please the Lord yet everyday with what I see here I feel like such a failure. I know much of what I feel is enemy attacks. I just need peace. I know I serve a God who loves me despite my shortcomings and is there to freely forgive me. I know He died to give me an abundant life and in the midst of much long suffering I have had the joy of the Lord and He has been doing a work in me. I so pray my husband will be able to come to know that kind of love that only God can give Him. I know the Lord can reach him. I cannot save my husband. I still have hope. One moment at a time.
Oh Liz! I am so so sorry for your pain, I have walked some hard roads in marriage, I empathize with you, the aching for things to get better, it is so awfully hard.
I am praying for you right now dear girl.
Oh Liz..you are in such a rough situation, and you are SO not a failure! There are many sweet, godly sisters like you here who are married to husbands who aren’t believers. You will find encouragement here for sure. 🙂
Liz, I too was married to an unbeliever way back in the 80’s and he left me in 1988 a few months after I came to know the Lord. We were divorced in 1989-He filed and it devastated me but we were only married 3 years so I am not a great person to comment-but I just wanted to let you know we love and care about you!
oh Liz–praying for you now, so so sorry
Oh dear Liz – my very first thought when I saw this title was of you. I wondered if you were seeing this…..and I am SO thankful that you did not “bottle up” your pain, but jumped in to share a little of your life’s sorrow right now. As you well know, this is a very safe place to do so. You will reap much prayer and encouragement from your brave sharing. Thank you for sharing here. 🙂
Oh Liz — so much pain. Hard to begin wrong, then have things exacerbated by the divide in your spiritual worlds. I don’t condemn you and neither does the Lord, for in Him we have no condemnation. You are right to let go and pray and still have hope for your husband. I am so sorry for all your pain.
Praying for you, Liz, and for your husband’s salvation. When you were married (30 years ago) you were not “unequally yoked” and you became a Christian 10 years after getting married. I’m sure you have been a witness to him through the past 20 years, Liz, and no one is perfect….so we are never a perfect witness to anyone and that is why it is really the Holy Spirit’s responsibility to woo people to the Lord. He’s pretty great at it.
Mary – so WELL SAID!! 🙂
still praying Liz
Yes, we do love you, Liz and I will be praying more for you this week. As others have said, it is so good that you have shared this sorrow with us. We can’t carry the load like we wish we could, but we will lift you up to the One who can. Thank you too, for your kind words to me at the end of last week’s blog. You are a treasure and we’re glad you’re part of our family here.
Liz, praying for you.
Liz,
Thank you for your brave transparency here. The Lord knows how bone-weary you are and your deep need for peace.
Liz, I breathed a heavy sigh when I read this…I’m so sorry. I don’t know all the circumstances of your life, yet I know the heaviness of being unequally yoked. If there is a secret to thriving in a difficult marriage, I haven’t discovered it; even as a Christian, I can’t seem to muster up the thriving part. Prayers going up for you, Liz.
Oh dear, Liz, I am so sorry… Praise God you “still have hope,” the evil one would love to put you down, dejected and hopeless. I will pray for your peace and your husband’s conversion, and blessed reconciliation of your marriage on a new foundation in Jesus. Today is the first day of the rest of your lives…bless you, Liz, and blessings on this 30th anniversary, may it be the start of a new beginning.
Liz, you have touched my heart also with your concern for your unraveling marriage. I was in that place before. Trust God is at work in your marriage. End results are not in, and yet God is with you on this journey. Pray for God’s will. You are in my prayers.
This topic is so relevant and it does affect us all as we examine the lack of respect within the family.
I truly avoid the t.v. shows which poke fun at relationships.
BUT THIS ISN’T JUST ABOUT REDEFINING MARRIAGE, IT IS ABOUT A LACK OF RESPECT WITHIN THE FAMILY. What came to mind immediately is that while our own families are falling apart in the body of Christ we are more passionate and angry about the Supreme Court’s decision on gay marriage, and I don’t know which grieves God more.
2. What does Proverbs 23:22 tell us to do?
The MSG “Listen with respect to the father who raised you,
and when your mother grows old, don’t neglect her.”
In your life, right now, how would you apply this?
My parents are both gone. I could apply this though to people of my parents generation who I come in contact with. Older people often have wisdom, they may not be powerful of influential anymore, as a woman who is experiencing estrogen loss, I see how this affects my ability to communicate well, but that doesn’t mean I have nothing worthwhile to contribute. The same is true for older people, it may take a bit of time to hear what they have to say.
We can also seek to honor Bill’s mom and stepdad. We usually only see them about twice per year though they live only about 45 minutes away. I can suggest that we do better.
What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them?
The honoring older people doesn’t seem like a struggle to me but where my MIL is concerned, she isn’t an easy person. It isn’t super comfortable to spend time with her. Bill doesn’t love it. I don’t like it when he is uncomfortable, so approval and comfort both are at play.
How can gazing at the gospel help you?
Jesus laid down His life, was born of a woman, lived a lowly life, was humiliated and separated from His Fathers presence for me. I ought not go through life motivated by my comfort, fearing negative repercussions from human disapproval. Keeping my eyes fixed on Him I can in small ways lay down my life for His glory, even choosing to spend time with people who drain me!
Such thoughtful answers, Chris.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
The two “families” stood out. I can’t believe what we have come to in our world. Two years ago my husband and I decided to get rid of cable. It was for monetary reasons and I knew it would be hard for me in one way….I am a political “junkie!” I LOVE the election cycle. NH is a great place to be when it rolls around. Consequently, I can’t watch my favorite news programs, but I also don’t have access to the raunchy programs either. I have never watched Modern Family; although we have some basic stations and probably could. The premise of it is offensive to me. I feel like I live back in the seventies when we had to wait a whole year to see Charlie’s Browns Christmas!
I miss the way it used to be in our country with families and I’m glad we have reruns to remind of us of those times.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
The story of the dead alewives is so interesting. Always amazes me how God speaks His truth again to us over and over through nature. I’ve never seen Modern Family, or most new TV shows. We don’t watch much TV, but lately my husband and I have been getting a 30 minute “Hazel” fix at the end of the night. It’s black & white, they pray and respect each other (and its funny), the “purity” is refreshing and so rare.
I think it started for me with the Charleston shootings, and then the flower-shop owner stories, and then the Supreme Court decision…I keep hearing the Lord saying not to turn away in fear, not to be silent. I’ve never been very vocal politically-but I feel this urgency for Christian to speak. We have the power of the Spirit, we have the Truth, we have nothing to fear. We do not need to fight with anxiety and harshness, because the Battle is won, and we’re on the winning side. But still, we must, speak truth, in love. There is a call for Christian courage.
I came across this quote from Martin Luther:
“If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ.”
Loved ‘Hazel’ 🙂 Maybe that’s the next series I’ll start for my own end of the day ‘fix’!
….and wow. that Luther quote is very convicting. Your paragraph about declaring Truth is good.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? I might just need to step back this week. I am emotionally weary. This topic of family is heavy and difficult. Before I say too much, I’ll leave it at that. For now. This blog habit is one I don’t want to break though, so I suppose, once I get some sleep and hopefully, the latest emotional setback passes, I may jump in with both feet! (or maybe it’s just time for me to stay silent and learn from others).
I did want to comment on the alewives and the sea lampreys though. (I have never heard of these creatures). These kinds of phenomenon ought to set our hearts to ablaze to do what is best for our environment and leave the smallest footprint. I’m still baffled as to why often, conservative Christians stand against environmental issues. It is labeled a liberal thing. To me, what could be more rightful and appropriately conservative than to conserve the precious world our God made us. (another reason why political labels never fit). But the story of the imbalance in the great lakes is repeated over and over probably in every realm of nature, in some way. And truly, it declares a Creator God who had a perfect design for this natural world. When I think of things like this, my mind cannot begin to wrap around what the new earth, restored to perfection will be like!
a couple more thoughts after skimming some things here: I also have never heard of Modern Family. (would have never heard of the Duggers, or the bearded Duck guys or any reality shows, were it not for references on facebook) Actually, when I began on the blog, any desire for TV vanished. I had way too much to do to try keep up here! Like Laura, I have been a political junkie since I was a teen, but I have completely lost confidence in the political and cable news environments. I read now, but very rarely watch anymore. Last election, I didn’t see a single political ad and that was akin to bliss! I get a little relaxing, ‘end of the day TV fix’ by watching shows from the ’60’s and ’70’s that I enjoyed as a kid, on You Tube 🙂 (and a couple months of Masterpiece Theatre in the dead of winter). There’s a huge freedom to not turn on TV news nor having to endure the ads. I’m never quite sure what to do when I’m around people who are making conversational references to current TV stuff. It’s a discussion stopper when I have no clue what they’re talking about. And I don’t always want to be the wet blanket to a conversation. Especially, if I’m trying to connect with secular people.
Wanda, I’m with you…I absolutely refuse to waste my life watching programming that is an insult to my intelligence. I hate recent sitcoms that portray men as bumbling idiots, that show disrespect between spouses, parents and children, etc., and sexual references run rampant.
Wanda we got rid of our TV programming several years ago. I wish we had done it sooner! Outside of the Cleveland Indians games there is nothing I miss about it. Masterpiece Theater I can watch online, PBS has the only programming I really want to see. We have ROKU and Netflix, so we can see programming, it just takes a bit of work to find and select something. I don’t miss the constant Blah Blah Blah of the TV at all!
I am praying for your heavy heart and family difficulties.
Thanks for the prayers, Chris.
I may have left the wrong impression but family stuff does get hard when children carry different beliefs and values. We do operate pretty well as a family though. And what we have done well is really loving and caring for each other, in spite of differing values. (referring to my family of my husband and kids and I) I think I was just too weary from some hard stuff my youngest is going through, when I wrote my comment.
Dee, I am a big Alistair Begg fan and the two sermons are wonderful. As a new grandparent who babysits I needed a brush up on parenting skills and this was just the answer. I hope all your bloggers will listen. Thank you!
Thanks, Kim — yes — they are helpful to us as grandparents too!
Kim – I so agree….Alistair Begg has long been one of my very favorite teachers! The Scottish brogue is just the icing on the cake to my ears! He is clearly a great, great lover of God’s Word.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
After centuries, the road from Father Knows Best to Modern Family has been shockingly short.
Did any of you watch the movie Forever Young with Mel Gibson years ago? In it, he voluneers to be the first human to be frozen in a time capsule as part of a military experiment during WWII. His fiance has been hit by a car and not expected to live. He has nothing else to live for. Fifty years later, he “wakes up” and is stunned to see the condition of the world in those short 50 years. The movie does an incredible job of portraying his shock over how people treat each other, especially within the family that takes him in.
My mom and dad loved this movie. And I think its because it expressed how they felt in observing the sad decline of families in America. It also told a beautiful love story, which my mom and dad certainly identified with.
On a side note, about 25 years ago, my husband and I attended a leadership training conference with Youth for Christ in southern Colorado, hosted by Summit Ministries. I remember clear warnings at that conference, that there was a political agenda, a tsunami assault, coming, that would wreak havoc with family structure in America. We have witnessed its unfolding, not only in the world around us, but we have felt the terrible affects within our very own family. I would have not thought that possible 25 years ago.
This song of confession and a plea for His much-needed mercy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjPrIVKlvsM
Nila, I have seen that movie! It does do a good job of portraying a decline in common grace and respect for each other. I also love the pursual story, the never giving up…. Won’t give away any spoilers …
So true, Nila — and thanks for the song
Forever Young is a great example here, Nila. I also liked Jill’s commentary about the movie.
I’ve even thought several times, what would my dad think if he ‘returned’? (so grateful that he is in the presence of the Lord). He has been gone 20 years. I’ve mostly thought about the changes in our own family…so much sadness and changes not for the better for many. But society? wow. it gets depressing sometimes to think about.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
The example of the dead alewives washing up on the shore is very powerful. I can only imagine the foulness of the smell of all those dead fish. TV shows…I remember when my oldest son was in HS, and an assignment was to watch a TV show and write a short paper about it. We were fond of watching The Andy Griffith Show, and that’s what he watched and wrote about. His teacher said in his years of teaching, that was a first; the kids watched shows like Beverly Hills 90210, but he’d never read a paper on Andy Griffith.
Painful, too, is the fact that most of the time, my own marriage and family life is marked by such dysfunction and the stench that must be to God.
And you (most of the time!) have a gentle and quiet spirit which is precious in the sight of God — in the midst of unbelief. I absolutely loved the story of your husband treating your mother with such kindness. I think that fragrance is spreading!
Susan,
I agree with Dee-you have a gentle and quiet spirit-PRECIOUS in the sight of God. I was thinking of the verse 1 Corinthians 7:14. Yes, the fragrance is spreading dear sister. 🙂
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Matthew 5:14, “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.”
This passage stuck out to me…I think how our world would be a different place if Christians truly followed Jesus in their hearts, minds, and actions. If we Christians were unified brothers and sisters in Christ, not judging others but a loving, hospitable, welcoming presence that draws unbelievers in. The Lord gave us the capacity to be His light that shines in the darkness of this world, if only we would truly shine. I pray for Christian unity.
Nanci – thank you for the Scripture reference…..when I saw this entry this morning, the Spirit convicted my heart IMMEDIATELY with regard to just a little snippet of a conversation last night with my husband…..you have well said “if only we would truly shine”. I did not shine last night and how I needed to see that this morning and repent. I’m constantly amazed at the lurking quality of sin in my life. Yesterday had been a truly wonderful, God blessed and walking in the light of His presence kind of day…..and then, wham!, just a little word or two…..and sin walked through my open door. Nanci, my sister, He has used you in my life this day – so thankful for you! 🙂
🙂
Your prayer for unity resonates with me Nanci…amen and amen, may we embody this
2. What does Proverbs 23:22 tell us to do? In your life, right now, how would you apply this? What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them? How can gazing at the gospel help you?
Listen to your father who gave you life, and do not despise your mother when she is old. I think this means respect your dad when he talks to you-even if you don’t agree. Don’t neglect your mom when she gets old.
How would you apply this? My mom and I are SO close. Since my older brother lives very close to her he is usually over at her home a lot taking care of her, fixing things when she is unable to do things. I help her out in other ways since we are unable to be there physically on a regular basis. I think for me just being there for her emotionally, spiritually and as a support to her has been where God has me BUT i struggle with making time to see them face to face and they both live so close. While we talk on the phone every day it isn’t the same.
What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them?
My comfort idol. I am busy with my family and working but I can make time to visit my parents face to face more often during the school year.
How can gazing at the gospel help you?
What comes to mind is when Jesus was on the cross He asked John to care for Mary. That is enough to help me turn from my comfort idol for Jesus was honoring His mother even on the cross for He didn’t come to be served but to serve and give His life as ransom to many. He even was willing to experience the hell of separation from God so we would never be. He gave up all comfort so He could have us, surely I could give up more time to spend more face to face with my parents who live close.
Rebecca – how I LOVE your referencing Jesus entrusting the care of Mary to John while he was on the cross. Surely one of the very most tender moments in all of Scripture. To me, this most sacred moment brought full circle so many of Jesus’ earlier words that on the surface SEEMED to have a bit of a “sting” to them with regard to his mother and his brothers….his earthly family. It speaks to me that when Jesus is truly our highest love of our lives, he ONLY brings a deeper love for our earthly families. How much richer does life get than that?
Jackie, “It speaks to me that when Jesus is truly our highest love of our lives, he ONLY brings a deeper love for our earthly families. How much richer does life get than that?” -you encouraged me this morning! His love is passionately sacrificial-so His deeper love is loving our families despite their sin or annoying behaviors for we too sin and have annoying behaviors yet He loves us to the moon.
Beautiful application of “caring for Mary” of Jesus from the cross.
I echo Dee and Jackie, the Jesus and Mary picture made me tear up. Thank you Rebecca
Your reference to Jesus’ caring for Mary really struck me too, Rebecca. For those of us who don’t have living parents, we can still use this example to spur us on to care for other family members. I also like Jackie’s thoughts about how this helped balance the seemingly harshness of Jesus’ previous words about his mother and brothers.
Wanda, I too love what Jackie brought out. 🙂
5. Read Proverbs 21 in its entirety and share anything that quickens you.
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes,
but the Lord weighs the heart.
Because of a situation between two friends I was already thinking about this from 1 Samuel when I came to the study today:
“For the Lord sees not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”
When we think we see sin in the life of a friend, we should pray and ask questions more than we speak. God see’s our friends heart and ours! We may be basing our exhortations on outwards appearance and assuming we know what is in their hearts and what their motivations are. We need to remember how limited our vision really is and step forward with reverence and humility if we feel led to admonish someone.
13 Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor
will himself call out and not be answered.
20 Precious treasure and oil are in a wise man’s dwelling,
but a foolish man devours it.
I though about the apparent sort of dichotomy of these two verses. We are to answer the cry of the poor, but we are to have treasure and oil in our dwelling. But God does supply. When we are tender hearted and respond generously to the impulses he lays on our hearts, we never seem to lack anything we really need.
Chris-so good how you applied 1 Samuel in verse 2.
Chris ditto for what Rebecca said. I find what you said helpful to me how we can base or exhortations on outward appearances.
What stands out is that we have messed up the world. We have gone a totally different route than God intended for marriage, family and even for nature. The gospel keeps us in line and I have to study it so as to know what the Lord requires of me
Welcome Grace from Illinois. Succinctly put!
Grace – welcome! It seems that you have stated a lot of this week’s study in a nutshell. I love your thought of “studying the gospel”…..so beautiful and so worthy of the sacrifice of our time and effort to do so. Thank you for that. 🙂
Welcome here Grace from Illinois. I love your name:)
Welcome, too, Grace! I also love your name. You said that well- we have messed up the world.
The gospel keeps us in line and I have to study it so as to know what the Lord requires of me.
2. What does Proverbs 23:22 tell us to do?
To listen and be attentive, respectful of our parents.
In your life, right now, how would you apply this?
My parents are both aging and not able to do all that they were at one time, physically and mentally. I must be patient with them, especially my Dad when he doesn’t remember, doesn’t hear clearly, doesn’t drive the speed limit, doesn’t enjoy food as he once did, or when he expresses fear in going to the doctor or dentist. I must be attentive to my parents’ needs, wants, and desires, allowing them as much independence as possible, but assisting when needed.
What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them?
Control…I need to be cognizant of allowing my parents to be who they are, to do as much as they desire and can do, being respectful of them as adults, looking to what is in their best interest, treating them how I would like to be treated, and allowing others’ input as potential alternative options to my own ideas.
Nanci, I was thinking of your post when responding to Jackie above..how you exemplify His love-sacrificial. I can relate though for there is that balance of respecting their decisions and giving them that freedom.
The Lord truly had a plan with this question. I wrote my comment during my lunch time, shortly thereafter I was hit smack-dab with a test of patience with a text from my Mom related to my Dad…I’d like to say that I passed with flying colors, but must admit a certain amount of frustration but thankfully assuaged by thinking back upon the answer to this question.
Nanci – how I love that you can see the layers upon layers of the Lord’s plan for you through the study and application of this one question! I smiled to think how that’s so often the way it is – the testing part never comes when we are expecting it, except that we CAN expect the testings to come until we are in heaven! C.S. Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters” is a good reminder of the wiles of the devil……and it’s about time in my life for a re-read! Thanks for sharing that great, practical application! 🙂
Nanci — the control idol comment shows such sensitivity.
2. What does Proverbs 23:22 tell us to do? In your life, right now, how would you apply this? What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them? How can gazing at the gospel help you?
Listen on to my father and love my mother when she is old.
i am struggling with an issue in my life that has to do with a child of mine. I am praying (sometimes, probably not enough) and waiting on God to give me the answers, and all I hear is crickets. It is kind of depressing that I don’t feel Him right now with this very important situation (to me), but I have learned that these are the times to WAIT AND DO NOTHING. That IS HARD! I am trying to honor Him but I definitely am struggling.
My my mom has passed and I did honor her in her old age. Not sure if in supposed to take this literal or not…..
as as far as idols; I suppose it is comfort/security or control that I need to address. I tell myself I am not in charge, He is. I need to submit to His will. SO HARD. What if He lets the chips fall as they may??? What if it doesn’t turn out ok or as I would have it??? How can I accept this? How can I live with it? Please Jesus help us! Help me.
Amen, Laura. It is SO HARD to wait and do nothing. I hear your heart in praying and not hearing answers. (wasn’t sure what you meant by crickets? maybe this is a phrase I’m not familiar with!) Your kids are always on ‘my list’ when I pray for the adult children represented in our fellowship. I am not sure I know them all by name. I think I know 3 out of 4! That’s okay 🙂 God knows them all!
wanda I laughed aloud when you said you didn’t understand the “crickets” mention! It’s a way of saying nothing is heard. Thank you for keeping us in your prayers. I’m not sure I was conveying myself too well answering the question. I see my father as God since my dad died when I was young.
Well, hey! I learned a new phrase here! I wonder if I’m the only one who doesn’t know this or if it’s a regional idiom. 🙂 I’ll have to try it out!
Wanda, watch the last 15 seconds
https://youtu.be/d0mNkix4Xnk
dawn! too funny–how in the world did you find that?! the whole thing made me smile–but yes, heard the end–perfect example for Wanda of what Laura meant! wow, and memories of my grandmother taking us to movies and they would always have these as the previews!
Everything’s on YouTube,Lizzy 🙂
Laura look forward to visiting with you again. I would love to encourage you in prayer. Your last paragraph touched my heart. The scripture that comes to mind is “Be Still and Know that I am God” thank you Lord we know where our help comes from it comes from the Lord. Thank you Lord you know our doubts and fears and You want us to turn to You and to put our eyes on You for that is where we will have preflect peace. Thank you for the growth we are experiencing as we walk in difficult places. Thank you Lord for those who encourage us on the way. Thank you Lord that we never walk alone. Help us to reject the whispers of the enemy and the condemnation he wants to weigh us down with. Thank you for the things we learn in these trials that are growing us stronger. Be with Laura today Lord and give her a greater understanding of who you are. Waiting is not passive but is expecting something to happen. Thank you that despite what we may be seeing that may appear as nothing is happening we know You are working behind the scenes on our behalf. We have faith that You are. If we are in a place of unbelief in that area help us today to believe. We praise You right where we are at. In Jesus Name.
Thank you Liz for the beautiful prayerful words. Let’s make our meeting sooner than later ok? 🙂
So many of you are already sharing this week about heartache in difficult family relationships…Liz, Wanda, Laura…and I’ll throw myself in there, too! Got this good quote just this morning:
“Trusting God when the miracle does not come, when the urgent prayer gets no answer, when there is only darkness –
this is the kind of faith God values perhaps most of all.
This is the kind of faith that can be developed and displayed only in the midst of difficult circumstances.
This is the kind of faith that cannot be shaken because it is the result of having been shaken.” – Nancy Guthrie
Susan this is beautiful. So true and thank you for sharing. Thank you that you allow the Lord to use you in the place that you are at. “Those who sow with tears shall reap with shouts of joy” psalm 126:5 comes to mind.
Very meaningful words here, Susan. I love that last sentence…..the kind of faith that cannot be shaken because it is the result of having been shaken. So good. Liz, your prayer is beautiful. Good distinction that waiting is not passive but is anticipation. Good encouragement.
Thanks Susan. This helps me keep focused.
Susan – thanks for sharing this wonderful quote from Nancy Guthrie ….I really love her teaching. 🙂
I sent this same Nancy Guthrie quote to a friend who was struggling recently 🙂
2. What does Proverbs 23:22 tell us to do? In your life, right now, how would you apply this? What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them? How can gazing at the gospel help you?
This verse tells us to listen, and other translations say to respect, our fathers, and not to neglect our mothers when they are old. My mom and dad are both 88, and moved close to me and my sisters two years ago when my mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. Mom can’t cook anymore, so my two sisters and I are responsible for their meals. We all contribute in different ways…my one sister helps out more with cleaning and laundry at their condo, I enjoy taking my mom for special outings, like two weeks ago, my mom, daughter, and I went to a classic car museum where they had a large collection of old cars from the 1930’s and 40’s and lots of other collectibles and memoribilia. Mom likes things like that, and we went out for lunch. I enjoy doing things to make my mom and dad happy, and I love to see my own kids follow this example. My one son, who is home from college now, took my mom out for lunch today at her favorite drive-in place for a hamburger and a milkshake.
Of course, many times my idols of comfort get in the way; I’ll think I’m just too busy or tired to go over for a visit, or I have my own stuff to do. Strangely, my idol of security is lurking, too, in that, in my mind, I still like to cling to the image of my mom and dad being strong, capable, being there for me to depend on…I find myself wanting to be the “child” that doesn’t have to be quite so grown-up and mature, being the one they depend on for help. It is hard to watch them age. It still sticks with me, from our past lesson here, about not treating your parent like Ham treated his father, Noah. When you begin to see their weaknesses, that they’re not perfect, that you don’t point out their flaws, but cover them. That’s the gospel – I am covered by His grace and mercy. Harder things are, I am sure, coming in the future. I need to trust God to be my security, to help me be wise and mature. Sometimes when I am sad or troubled, I still wish that I could run to my mom or dad for comfort…but I would not want to burden them with my problems; yet, I can run into His arms and be his “little girl” when I need to.
Susan, how true of our dependence on our parents and our desire to remain in that role as “child”…oh…you unearthed another idol.
The example of Ham is so good…indeed, I want to be respectful of my parents, they are not perfect and as age continues to creep more weaknesses will surface, I too don’t want to “point out their flaws, but cover them.”…that really resonates with me, thank you, Susan, well said.
3. This is related to the 5th commandment that comes with a promise. According to Deuteronomy 5:16, what is the promise?
That you will live long and things will go well in your life-but I know there is a deeper meaning for many people who honor their parents pass away and don’t live a long life and if they do live a long life they will endure some kind of valley and trial in their life.
4. In the sermon by Keller this week, he has an interesting take on the above. He doesn’t think the promise is that you will have long life, but rather, that it may go well with you in the land you are being given, for you, and for future generations. In others words, when we don’t honor our parents, the family begins to unravel, and then the society unravels, and life becomes cursed. Agree or disagree and why?
I do agree that this is SO true more often than not but since we are in a fallen world there are times when the Christian family unravels anyway but I have seen God redeem that too.
I have also seen families who live this out from generation to generation-honoring their parents, and it is beautiful. That said, I work in a public school and oh my..yes our culture is unraveling due to this. So many kids don’t honor adults now a days and that stems from not being taught to honor their parents at home and on top of that they have messages coming in from our culture-even at school from their teachers- to consider and accept other ways of living.
I do see how teachers get frustrated with kids who disrespect them, but what I don’t get is that they want kids to live right but without God-They are being taught He has nothing to do with anything-we are animals-products of evolution and therefore are to live for ourselves, but give ourselves to others in order to feel good in return. They want kids to embrace ‘living right’ with no author-no reason to obey. How can they honor their parents when they don’t see God in the center and when they don’t see the family unit as valuable anymore?
This is just my opinion but it is a jump if we are taught we are nothing but animals yet we are to value human life and think of others before ourselves and we must honor our parents and respect adults. I believe the unraveling started with evolutionary theory being taught as fact in regard to the origin of life-it is all an accident with no purpose-no God, and our culture has gone downhill from there. Sorry, rabbit trailing, but I have to go!
Rebecca – I think your “rabbit trail” about evolution and our society’s fundamental underlying belief being that we are evolved rather than created and how that impacts our honoring and valuing human life is just so excellent! I agree 100%. Your “rabbit trail” can be seen from Genesis to Revelation and oh, only the Holy Spirit can open blind eyes – and praise God, He still does!! From the time God gave Moses the Law for the children of Israel until right now (and certainly before Moses too! 🙂 ) we surely can see that it is impossible to “live right but without God” , as you have so aptly observed and stated. But Christ has come….he has died….and He is risen indeed!
Thank you all for your kindness love and encouragement. This is truly aspecial place. I am fighting the battle of going to a pity place. I have much to be thankful for andI know I am not alone. I know there are others here who are in very difficult places. Praise God we have a God who masters in the difficult. I know from experience we grow most in the painful experiences we walk thru. The proverbs that speak of the nagging wife has always had me stop and examine myself. Being in a relationship that at times has had such polar differences of how we see things has put my control idol into high gear I am sure and my fear of losing the control of things going in directions I so did not want to happen or decisions I could not agree with came up so often. So I am sure it came across as a nagging wife. Oh my heart has such pain thinking of that. I felt many times as if I did not have a voice. I know the Lord knows everything ii have walked through and I know He knows my failures and He still loves me. Oh such love. I feel so often I have not trusted the Lord for my life within my marriage and instead wanted to take the control myself. I have also been in so many ways my own defender
You’ve been on my heart and mind a lot, Liz…thinking about your 30th anniversary and have been praying for you. I am so glad that you know that you are not alone!
Liz — so glad you are finding support here. And oh, it is so easy to want to be our own defender!
Use the word pictures to help you explain how nagging affects a husband.
Being compared as WORSE than the most unbearable living conditions, desperate, uncovered…exposed, or unending dripping of water, which is used as a torture method to drive people insane…as women we need to take these warnings seriously.
I have come to realize over the years how much my words affect my husband, honestly I feel like they have too much power. It is often hard for me to discuss anything I am unhappy about without him feeling dismantled in his self worth as a husband. He needs to feel my confidence in him to a high degree, before we can enter into any sort of need of mine in a way that he can hear me and not feel undone by it.
3. This is related to the 5th commandment that comes with a promise. According to Deuteronomy 5:16, what is the promise?
If we honor our parents we are afforded a long life with God in heaven? Aren’t we saved by grace?
That’s a really good question, Laura. If this were a proverb, we could accept it just as written. Being a promise, I feel like there’s a meaning deeper than what looks obvious. Because we all know children who have loved and honored their parents and have died young. We also know children and adult children who have loved and honored their parents and it has not ‘gone well’ for them, in terms of health or well being. I suppose we can always say that it ‘goes well’ when the Lord is with us though. It goes well, because this world is just the beginning. Eternity will be bliss. Eternal life is a free gift of grace; that’s for sure. I’ll be looking for T.K’s interpretation here.
Laura – my ESV Study Bible had a helpful little note on this verse which says “This did not mean merely a long life, but one that experienced God’s presence and favor.” Of course I will admit to wondering HOW they got that explanation! It does fit with the whole of Scripture though, for sure. And when a specific verse boggles us a bit, it’s always good to sit back and reflect on what the rest of Scripture seems to say to our questions. ? In the case of “long life”, I do think of Jesus’ disciples – and Jesus himself! All of them except John died “young”…..because of the gospel!
Something I had never noticed before about the law and understanding the law popped out in Deuteronomy 1:5 where it says “Moses undertook to explain this law….”. Clearly we have always needed help from one another – and especially those God has gifted as teachers – to understand His Word. Once again I’m reminded of what an incredible gift it is to work through some of these things together here on the blog! 🙂
4. In the sermon by Keller this week, he has an interesting take on the above. He doesn’t think the promise is that you will have long life, but rather, that it may go well with you in the land you are being given, for you, and for future generations. In others words, when we don’t honor our parents, the family begins to unravel, and then the society unravels, and life becomes cursed. Agree or disagree and why?
That makes sense to me! I agree with Keller because you can see in society what happens when the family unit is broken. I deal with divorced families every day in school. Kids leave books/backpacks at one house and then aren’t prepared for school. It stresses everyone out from mom, to dad, to kid, to teacher! Everyone is trying their best, but it isn’t the plan that is meant for us and we have troubles.
Laura–such a good “every day example” of kids and backpacks, split between homes, the chaos..oh it pulls my heart
Oh me too, I have seen this firsthand in my granddaughter. Going back and forth between houses, her parents are so preoccupied with their own difficulties, no one seems to be noticing her, really seeing her if you know what I mean. It has changed her, and it grieves me.
. What does Proverbs 23:22 tell us to do? In your life, right now, how would you apply this? What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them? How can gazing at the gospel help you?
Listening to my father and not despising my mother. My Dad is already gone and my mom turned 80 this year. It would be easy to fall into the temptation of thinking that because of my Mom’s age and infirmity (aging body and mind) that I am past being taught by her. She has a wealth of experience and it will do me good to seek it out even from a distance. The idol of control can stand in the way of this since I feel like at this time of her life, she seems to be so needy, it seems easy to just tell her what to do (when I am on the phone with her long distance). And when she disagrees with me, I have a tendency to be upset with her.
3. This is related to the 5th commandment that comes with a promise. According to Deuteronomy 5:16, what is the promise?
Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
4. In the sermon by Keller this week, he has an interesting take on the above. He doesn’t think the promise is that you will have long life, but rather, that it may go well with you in the land you are being given, for you, and for future generations. In others words, when we don’t honor our parents, the family begins to unravel, and then the society unravels, and life becomes cursed. Agree or disagree and why?
In the assigned reading in Jeremiah 35 for the Read The Bible in a year schedule, the Rekabites were mentioned as refusing to drink wine because their forefather Jehonadab advised them not to. It is interesting to note in verse that the blessing was there will always be a servant to the Lord from their descendants because of their obedience. Talk about “go well with you and your future generations!
18 Then Jeremiah said to the family of the Rekabites, “This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: ‘You have obeyed the command of your forefather Jehonadab and have followed all his instructions and have done everything he ordered.’ 19 Therefore this is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: ‘Jehonadab son of Rekab will never fail to have a descendant to serve me.’”
Bing, thank you for pointing out this from Jeremiah 35, I believe that will stick with me.
2. What does Proverbs 23:22 tell us to do? In your life, right now, how would you apply this? What idols might stand in your way of doing this, and how could you over come them? How can gazing at the gospel help you?
In my responses to my mom, I can see all 3 idol areas at work. I don’t want to feel her disapproval, or her control over my decisions—so I tend to back away and keep a “safe distance”. I go into self-protection mode, really making an idol of my own self. I don’t want to hurt. Perfect Love casts out all fear. The Gospel, Jesus on the Cross, for me—casts out all my fear. He gives me the armor to enter in. Instead of seeing myself as the victim, He allows me to see, in her, a wounded soul that is much in need of His love and grace, of which He has given me in excess.
4. In the sermon by Keller this week, he has an interesting take on the above. He doesn’t think the promise is that you will have long life, but rather, that it may go well with you in the land you are being given, for you, and for future generations. In others words, when we don’t honor our parents, the family begins to unravel, and then the society unravels, and life becomes cursed. Agree or disagree and why?
Thinking as I type here (dangerous, but I’m short on time this week!). To honor, to show respect, for those who God has ordained as our parents, is to honor God. I was blessed with parents who are, imperfect-as-I-am, very worthy of respect. I know some unfortunately have evil parents. To show respect can’t mean to condone evil behavior, but to act in a way that is respectful, in the same way we are called to respect all in authority over us. We are called to live worthy of our calling, regardless of how we are treated. I can see the un-raveling effect of disrespecting our parents, modeled before our own children, they continue our pattern towards us, and the disobedience is passed on through generations. There is the “snowball” effect of sin—it gets progressively worse. As each family member becomes infected, they are “carriers” and spread it into other communities. The disease of sin continues to multiply throughout society. Let me hide myself in Thee; Let the water and the blood, From Thy riven side which flowed, Be of sin the double cure, Cleanse me from its guilt and power.
6. Read Proverbs 21:9, 19 and 27:15.
A. Use the word pictures to help you explain how nagging affects a husband.
My man will stay as far away as possible from me (rooftop and wilderness) if I nag him. And he can also be in the same house as I am but his heart, mind and soul will be somewhere else (tuned out). We send them out to where they may be prey for temptation and look somewhere else for relief.
B. How does it show a lack of respect?
Nagging will come across as a lack of respect in that it implies I am better at figuring things out than my husband. It also creates insecurity, defensiveness and can threaten his significance as the head of the family.
C. What is the difference between submitting a request and nagging?
Nagging is constant, whiny, demanding. Submitting a request implies that it has been given considerate thought and the timing is reasonable.
D. What idol do you think is at the root of nagging and how could you replace it?
Idol of control. Trust God to be in control. Instead of I on the throne of my heart, it is God. Give issues prayerful consideration before bringing them up.
What do you have to believe about God in order to not nag?
He will work things out in His time in his perfect way.
Ernema – you have given me so much rich food for thought in your answers here. Well said, sister! Your answer to D. is wonderful….loving submission to our Sovereign and all gracious God comes BEFORE our thoughtful dealings with our husbands!! Or I should say, when it goes this way, it goes well…..maybe not necessarily circumstantially, but surely in our heart’s rest and peace.
5. Read Proverbs 21 in its entirety and share anything that quickens you.
V.29-The wicked put up a bold front, but the upright give thought to their ways.
I am thinking ‘give thought to my ways’ explains what the opposite is by putting up a ‘bold front’. I can apply this to encouraging others. Do I open my mouth with the first thing that runs through my mind or do I think and pray before I speak. Will this edify this person or discourage them? God, what is it YOU want me to say or do if anything right now? A REAL good example are the times I have put my foot in my mouth trying to encourage a sister here on the blog-usually because I am in a hurry to get in the shower. 🙂 I have done that several times-I think even the other day. So even on the blog here He can help me be more thoughtful. This also applies to every area of my life.
B. How does it show a lack of respect?
It shows my pride and self assurance, I think I know what is best.
We were at a party recently and on the way home we were talking about the conversation. Bill had noticed that one of the women was disrespectful to her husband, that she had called him an idiot a number of times. I admit I hadn’t taken notice of it.
I don’t do that out loud, call my husband an idiot, but I do it in my head way more than I care to admit. As a part of my Taking My Thoughts Captive campaign 🙂 I am trying to stop thinking this is normal and part of being married, when I indulge these thoughts I am having a mini mental rebellion. If I trust God, then there is room for my husband to make mistakes, I can trust God with the result, I don’t need to be in control.
I feel like we know we want our men to be in the game, but so often when they step up to the plate we rush up and grab the bat out of their hands, scolding them that they are doing it wrong.
That is a really good statement, Chris.
C. What is the difference between submitting a request and nagging?
When I am nagging I am saying I already figured that out…you have to listen to me…why aren’t you doing what I said…I told you that already. I am wise in my own eyes. I trust in me.
I am important to my husband, my words carry weight, when I am coming alongside him, and we are together in whatever we are talking about, he gets the final say, and I have come to love this instead of stiffen at the thought of it. I can give input and relax. The final call is up to him and the final outcome is up to God.
In others words, when we don’t honor our parents, the family begins to unravel, and then the society unravels, and life becomes cursed. Agree or disagree and why? I do agree. And I do see the unraveling all around me. I find it interesting (and feel very blessed) that my own, who don’t follow some of our beliefs, still show us great honor and love though. And vice versa. The outcome, though, can be a ‘walking on eggshells’ kind of environment at times. Either that, or everyone airs their own views and people feel hurt. That is a hard place to be. Still, love is greater. I’ve never known two brothers who are more vastly different in their views and lifestyle than our two sons and yet, each of them would take a bullet for the other. That encourages me, but there are still tensions. As for life going well, I have seen over and over that when we follow the Lord, even though life is often, still hard and painful, the going well comes from the coming together of His body to care and support us, as well as ultimately, drawing our strength and finding our peace in Him. I do not see this in many families and individuals where He is not honored. Sometimes, they just seem to have no where to turn.
Regarding the promise of life going well:
Bing pointed out Jeremiah 35 as a good example. I went back and re-read it. Also in the next chapters, there is more reinforcement of that concept.
Jeremiah replied, “Obey the Lord by doing what I tell you. Then it will go well with you and your life will be spared’. 37:20
This one has a very specific audience, but as Jackie pointed out, we often need to look at the whole of Scripture. I know, that no matter how much we study, there will always be questions. I feel like reading through the Bible chronologically, this year, has made a huge difference in my seeing the whole of the Word. I’ve been a student of the Word since a teen, but I feel like this is making some things ‘click’ that never did before! I so appreciate that Dee gave us this challenge. Yet…..I still have to defer back to the settled conviction that His ways and thoughts are so much higher than mine. I will never understand it all.
Surrender the hunger to say you must know. Have the courage to say, ‘I believe’. (from Michael Card) I have this posted on my bathroom mirror. I think on it often.
Izzy,
Thanks so much for seeking me out and sharing this weeks link. I am so very thankful and it really touched my heart. I am having a bit of a crazy week and a little off but wanted to touch base and let you all know I am still here. I am hoping to be able to become a constant here as I see a number of others are. You all amaze me with your posts. Have to run hope to be back soon. In Christ, Joyce
Joyce–so glad you made it over to this post! Don’t feel pressure to keep up, we’re just glad you’re here–already blessed by what you have shared. Praying for your day~
Welcome, Joyce! and also Grace and Kim! 🙂 Good to have you here!
Regarding Alistair Begg’s message: Oh, I SO don’t want to rock the boat here, but I feel somewhat of a heavy heart after listening to almost half of the Alistair Begg sermon. Unlike some of you, I have never heard him speak so I was enthused to listen. I made it almost to the end of the first half but my stomach was starting to get in knots early on. I really struggle with this kind of harsh and sometimes sarcastic approach to teaching. Perhaps this is an isolated example, because of the nature of the teaching, so I’m not writing him off. I would like to hear him teach on other topics. I just am very sensitive to children who are broken from abuse and bad parenting; but I always go back to; What did the child’s mother, father (often absent) or grandparents have to live with? Were the child’s parents also beaten down from the effects of bad parenting? For example: some of the ways he described the little fiends in the grocery cart or on the plane, really bothered me. And the way he expressed the exasperation of parents who want to drop their kids off and pick them up 7 months later….he seemed to be relating to that. I just can’t relate. I was over the moon in love with my children. And that doesn’t mean I didn’t discipline them nor that I didn’t need a break now and then. I did. But, for all of the ways they drained me, they filled me so much more. I think I can’t relate to this kind of approach. I need to see the tender, gracious heart that our Savior shows to us, as His children. My husband had a traumatic childhood and endured parenting with ridicule and sarcasm and I see the precious children and teens that come to the christian facility where my son and daughter in law work and the brokenness. It’s not that I disagree with the theology he is using. He is teaching the truth. (And I love the catechism teaching!) but when a teacher’s tone is harsh, my listening is generally over. Please correct my thinking, if I’m out of line here. (and the Scottish brogue IS delightful, Jackie 🙂 )
Just to clarify: I guess I did listen to the whole first sermon. (I thought it was one sermon in two parts so thought I had heard most of the first half. Went back and finished that one.)
4 hours later: I felt remiss after writing my above post about Alistair Begg, because this was my only exposure to his teaching and I know his reputation is one of a sound and good teacher of the Word. So, I just spent some time online, watching videos of parts of several other sermons and OH, they were all very good. And he did not come across with harshness or insensitivity at all. I believe I am wrong to have made some of the assumptions I did. I think that I would not have made them if I had heard more of his heart, before I heard him teach in the way he did in the sermons about children. 🙁 I’m sorry for that.
Wanda – you amaze me! That you would care enough to spend precious time listening to other teachings by Alistair Begg and give him a fair hearing! I do value your words and opinions, so when I read your first response to this teaching I was a bit taken aback. I haven’t listened to Alistair Begg nearly as much in recent years (I don’t listen to Christian radio nearly as much as previously…..)and I was regretting speaking out and affirming how much I love his teaching!! 🙂 The little rural Bible church that I attended with my family when I was in middle school and high school had a very legalistic, quite harsh and sarcastic pastor for those years…..and it DID scar me in some ways. So I have experienced a “hurtful attitude” in teaching that caused me to close my ears to what was actually being said! (Of course I was not yet a believer at that time either, so it was complicated) I’m thankful that you found teaching that had a very different “tone” to your ears! I think that when there is an area of life where we admittedly have sensitivity and even wounds, we sometimes find humor that pushes the limit and leans into sarcasm to be almost unbearable. It’s neat to see that in short order you were able to get to a place of peace with this. 🙂 In the past I had not found Alistair Begg’s teaching to be harsh at all – straightforward and direct, yes, but not harsh. I’ve also found some of his humor to be a bit “foreign” as well….but I actually really liked the “quirkiness” of that. 🙂 Well, once again in my long winded fashion, I’m just grateful that you found a better place to settle your heart a bit with the teaching!
Jackie; responding here as I couldn’t reply to your comment!
I’m glad you found my subsequent posts, Jackie, because I so didn’t want to offend. I went back and listened again to the first sermon too, and the same parts bothered me, BUT it does make such a difference when you have more exposure to the whole person and teaching. What I listened to later, made me want to hear more of him! I’m always glad for the people I’ve been introduced to here on the blog, as I ducked out of Christian radio a very long time ago. Now that I’ve re-discovered the teaching on an AM channel, I want to tune in, but the signal is so slight, I only get static. Maybe I just need a better radio! I don’t have a portable computer to listen online at present and I can’t hang around by my desk all day to tune in on my desk top! But, I suspect, this will change before too long.
4. In the sermon by Keller this week, … In others words, when we don’t honor our parents, the family begins to unravel, and then the society unravels, and life becomes cursed. Agree or disagree and why?
I agree…I believe the family is foundational to the well-being of all…there is a ripple effect. I recall when doing The Truth Project, that the explanation for the design of the family was that of the Holy Trinity. The family was designed for support of one another, acting together in a harmonious way…oh to think of family acting in perfect harmony. The family will never achieve the perfect harmony of the Holy Trinity, but a family is definitely better off the closer it can bridge the gap. When the family goes awry, there is a ripple effect that ripples out to society. We have experienced this to a large extent over the past decades and as Dee mentioned the change is easily visible in television.
I do want to say that “family” can be different from that of the typically thought of nuclear family…i.e., Dad, Mom, kids. Sometimes circumstances are such that others need to step in and take over for family members when they are unable due to sickness or death (or in cases of single parents, divorce, etc.). The Christian family on earth are not without fault. We have allowed the culture to run rampant with little or no response. There is more than enough fault to go around.
Good points in your last 3 sentences, Nanci. I had been thinking about this too. Without redefining ‘family’, it still does look different in different circumstances. I also think of the many cultures who treat aunts, uncles, cousins as part of their nuclear family much more than typical Americans do. My friend and I laugh over two sisters who are identical twins that we know. They also almost always wear their hair and glasses the same. I don’t know them well enough to tell them apart, but well enough to want to greet them when I see them in passing. I never dare use their names. Sometimes, I look at the children they have along, to give me a clue as to who is who, but just as often as not, they may have a niece or nephew with them. So, I just smile and say hello to all 🙂 There are a lot of families that function this way, to differing degrees and some do it really well!
Thanks, Wanda…my husband has twin cousins that I lived close to and went to school with while growing up. I can tell the difference, but he will often ask me because he cannot tell. We were at his family reunion this past weekend and the question arose once again…:)
I feel like some clarification of my comment might in order.
An example of what I mean…last December my husband’s cousin died unexpectedly (fell from a tree while hunting), he was a young man with a wife and two young daughters. When the Christmas tree fell, two of his friends were “johnny on the spot” coming to her aid. Friends and family have made sure that she and the girls are included, encouraged, helped, etc. without being overbearing. No one will ever replace him, but friends and family have come around his wife and children to provide in his absence. I have seen too often that there is much compassion and concern expressed and help offered immediately following the death (divorce could be included as another example…death of a relationship), but over time it has a tendency to wane as the world gets back to its “normal,” yet these families are still bearing the incredible loss and still in need of that compassion, concern, and help and kind of left to fend for themselves.
That is a really good example, Nanci. I remember you telling us about that tragic loss and am glad to hear that this young mom has gotten some ready help and support. Yes, there are some really vivid and essential ways that we can become family to others. (and also accept others into our own lives)
2.What does Proverbs 23:22 tell you to do?
Listen to your father, who gave you life and don’t despise your mother when she is old.
How would you apply this to your life; what idols stand in your way of doing this and how could you overcome them?
My story unfolded over a time. I was not sure how I would live up to the commandment to honor my Mother as I saw the need play out of declining health and her wish for me to care for her.
My father died when I was an infant and my mother never remarried. Being an only child gave me full responsibility to help my mother. Yet she was demanding and very stubborn. I struggled with what to do and prayed long for God to guide me and direct me. The way was not clear. The idols needed to be addressed; comfort, control, perfectionism and that was the beginning.
I ran into many roadblocks as I tried to accomplish her care from a distance. I found help from home health care, council on aging, a helper from her church, but nothing solved the whole story. Her physical and mental health were on a downward spiral. She became hospitalized, then to a nursing home, then to assisted living, but still there was a problem. Eventually I moved to her home, gave her care and continued the prayer and trusting God on the journey. The whole time continued year after year, and my marriage suffered. But there were problems to confront there as well with my idols.
Now I can look back and realize that God was guiding me all along. I grew spiritually and emotionally as I looked at my own issues, recognized my needs and let go of those things that were out of my control. I believe that my mother felt safer with me near (her dementia was so difficult for her) and I was able to forgive her for her control of me for many years. I copied some very negative behaviors, including anxiety.
Now we will have the future to see how the promise works out! As Rebecca said, “if they do live a long life they may endure some kind of valley and trial in their life.”
The best thing at this point is I feel a peace that I did give her the best that I could. She was a godly woman who was very generous in spite of her shortcomings. I learned that aging is a difficult trial, yet God is still in control. He knows and cares for us through the valley.
Shirley, this is such a precious post. Oh…. First, never knowing your father. My heart ached to read this. Going through this week’s study, I have felt sad to have not had my parents with me longer than I did, as in my eyes, they left far too soon. (I was in my 30’s and 40’s) I also knew that Laura and Renee lost their dads during their teens, which is such a heartbreaking time. But I did not realize that you grew up with just your mom. You have explained the journey so well and it is very poignant. To see how you kept pursuing the very best care for your mother, even though it was very difficult and as you said, she was stubborn and difficult. But to read on and see how, through your sacrifice (moving into her home, away from your own and your husband to do this), God guided BOTH you and her and gave you peace….that is really a beautiful picture of trust. You’ve really grabbed my heart with these memories, dear Shirley.
Shirley, I agree with Wanda, your post is so important. It is sometimes a hard road to care for our elderly parents, and you did so with grace. You are right too, God is near.
Shirley, I echo Wanda and Laura…the Lord indeed helped you to honor and care for your mom as her health failed, and enabled you to forgive the past. Wow.
Shirley this is indeed a beautiful post. Your example of caring for your Mom even when the relationship was difficult is such a testimony to having the Lord the center of your life and your dependence on Him.
Shirley — very poignant testimony! Thank you.
5. Read Proverbs 21 in its entirety and share anything that quickens you.
I really struggled finding something that I could understand well in this chapter…..I have pondered and searched several different bible to understand verse 1;
“The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.”
Proverbs 21:1 ESV
if anyone understands the second half of the statement could you please comment? The first part I get….water streaming could be slick, pleasant sounding, hard to contain without a container, wet, refreshing, etc. so the Lord might contain it, or He might not. It might be hard to contain because it is slick or wet. He might like the heart because it is pleasing to Him.
so, I went with this;
“Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.”
Proverbs 21:13 ESV
I definitely need to open my ears more :/
Laura, I found this commentary on Proverbs 21:1: God can change men’s minds, can, by a powerful insensible operation under their spirits, turn them from that which they seemed most intent upon, and incline them to that which they seemed most averse to, as the husbandman, by canals and gutters, turns the water through his grounds as he pleases, which does not alter the nature of the water, nor put any force upon it, any more than God’s providence does upon the native freedom of man’s will, but directs the course of it to serve his own purpose. (Matthew Henry)
Laura I have always understood it that the Lord is in control even of those who harden their hearts and He will use those hardened hearts for His purposes. I think of the example of Pharoh. Hard to ponder this sometimes when living with a heart so hard although I know this hard heart has driven me to Him.
Laura the biggest example I can think of was how God used Judas’s hard heart for the purpose of betraying Jesus. Thinking of Jesus handing Judas the piece of bread after he dipped it in the wine. All for Gods glory and for us.such a HUGE thing to ponder. No matter what God is in control.
First, welcome to the “newbies!” You will glean much from this blog 🙂
6. Read Proverbs 21:9, 19 and 27:15.
A. Use the word pictures to help you explain how nagging affects a husband.
It reminds me of my mom trying to wake me as a teen for school. I loved my mom, but oh! How she annoyed me with her constant calling my name to wake me up! I know she was doing what she thought was best; to make sure I didn’t miss the bus or wasn’t late when driving, but it was like fingernails down a chalkboard for me. My 4th kid had to get himself up and ready and off to school from 7th grade on. I was already at work and my husband left earlier than him. He wasn’t perfect, and senior year was a tough one (lots of detentions), but he managed and knows it is a weakness of his (and mine for that matter). It only caused strife when I would nag my other children to get up.
Husbands must feel that way when wives go on and on. But, on the other hand, why do husbands ignore? For example, my husband has a tendency to procrastinate (I do too with certain tasks). He won’t hire someone to accomplish the work (usually has to do with home repairs) and he will plan to do it himself. He gets started and finishes half the work and then stops and leaves it! Sometimes it has been 2 years! I have given up nagging though, and work is still left to be finished. Like the Disney song to the movie “Frozen” says, “Let it go! Let it go!” You will be SO much happier! I don’t know the answer to the problem.
B. How does it show a lack of respect?
It shows you don’t have enough faith in the person to complete the task at hand (whether my mom with me or me with my husband).
C. What is the difference between submitting a request and nagging?
Submitting a request is a one time deal. Once you “ask” more than once you have become “a nag!”
D. What idol do you think is at the root of nagging and how could you replace it? What do you have to believe about God in order to not nag?
Probably the control idol is at play here. I think we replace with God; focus energy on Him instead of the issue. Maybe we read a scripture when we feel the nagging urge? Or, I like to listen to Christian contemporary music, which helps focus me on Him. I suppose you have to believe God is the one in control, not you. Life here on earth is too short to be wasting time as a nag! Love each other, know that we all have weaknesses, and enjoy knowing that your perfect home is in heaven, with all the woodworking repairs completed 🙂
I’ve found the submitting the request once helpful too.
Laura your answers made me smile, my husband has the same approach much of the time, I used to get so unhappy about the unfinished projects. I realize now my husband overlooks so much imperfection in me, I can do that for him in this, none of it is that important 🙂
“Love each other, know that we all have weaknesses, and enjoy knowing that your perfect home is in heaven, with all the woodworking repairs completed :)”
Laura, your answers made me smile also…
“let it go, let it go”
“knowing that your perfect home is in heaven, with all the woodworking repairs completed”
…too funny!
6. D. I think my control idol is what fuels my nagging. I want things MY way, in MY timing. I also feel very unsafe and uncared for if a project that needs to be done goes unfinished. (Im letting that go!) It is a hard balance! My husband just told me last night that he regrets not having more memories with our Abby (20), I asked and asked and BEGGED him to take her on dates and stuff when she was little but he was always to tired or busy or just didnt know what to talk about, so I finally gave up. now that there is nothing he can do he finally sees why i wanted him to do those things….its so frustrating and sad! Abby cried when he came through her drive thru at chick fil a to see her, because she just never felt like he cared about what she was doing. I feel bad for him, and I see him making changes with the younger 3 but its hard to know when to stop nagging and let them suffer…exp. when your kids also suffer. I think i finally just enabled him because i didnt want the strife, once again, the balance is so tricky!
7. The vs. that stood out to me was HE WHO PURSUES RIGHTEOUSNESS AND LOVE FINDS LIFE, PROSPERITY AND HONOR. the picture of PURSUING rather then seeking after, or wanting, finding….The active, intentional, passion that the word pursue brings to mind is so URGENT. We should not just want to be righteous and love but we should go after tehm with our whole being. I feel like to often we think if we love God and want to do the right thing then we will stay on the right path. I feel like this vs. is saying that we have to really WANT it and chase after it on a daily basis if we want to find our lives and live a life that brings honor to God.
“Abby cried when he came through her drive thru at chick fil a to see her”
…good for him, start now and make up as best you can for time lost.
Cyndi, have to jump in here– I read your first sentence and CS Lewis’ words became mine: “What! You too? I thought that no one but myself . . .” ! Praying now for you all, I love that Paul sees the past and is making efforts to change things…believe God can and will restore “the years the locusts have eaten”, He is all about making all things new–thankfully! 🙂
thank you Lizzy! It is so hard to not say “I told you so”!!!!!! pray that I have compassion instead of anger!
6 A. Use the word pictures to help you explain how nagging affects a husband.
Oh that “dripping faucet” of 27:15 gets me every time! Sometimes I hear myself and even can apologize and say “drip..drip…drip”. Oh I don’t want to be that weighty drip. Thankful the Word reminds us to watch for it.
On 21:19, I was used to the NIV here, but it was interesting that the ESV says not only “quarrelsome”, but “fretful”. When I add “fretful” to the same list as arguing and nagging, I think it gives extra insight to how it makes my husband feel—helpless. My husband was out of town this week and he had joked when he left about whether I’d miss him. I always do, but this time-so many things came crashing in, the smallest of which was the millionth time of our “puppy” broke through the screen porch and escaped to eat the neighbor dog’s food (who we’d love to witness to and puppy is not helping!). So with every phone call there was a new “guess what happened…”, and I could hear the defeated-ness in his response. He hated being away, unable to help. Sometimes the things I nag about are things he needs to do. Writing it down usually helps, and loads of patience. I remind myself of the “package”—there are so many things I appreciate about him, his procrastination isn’t one of them, but if I’m honest—the other things out weigh for sure. Years ago I remember hearing that as much as women long for love, a husband longs for respect.I noticed such a change in him and me when I began to purposely show him that I respect him. Nagging is a very quick way to steal it from him. Then there are many times I go to my husband with things too big for him—and he just feels weighed down. Things I really need to just go to my Ultimate Husband with. Those are the “fretful” things.
Lizzy, this last sentence of yours is a really good reminder that even in a good marriage (or a close friendship or close relationship with another), there are times when we just need to take it to our Ultimate Husband…”Then there are many times I go to my husband with things too big for him – and he just feels weighed down. Things I really need to just go to my Ultimate Husband with.”
The “fret” is insightful!
7. Read Proverbs 22 in its entirety and share anything that quickens you.
‘A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.’ vs. 9 I think this is a proverb that could very well be a promise for I can’t think of any instance when it wouldn’t be true. Being generous to others always brings joy and inner blessing, even if there isn’t material or financial gain. If someone isn’t joyful about giving, then I suspect it isn’t true generosity. Was just thinking of former President Carter, who gave a press conference today, as he begins radiation for advanced cancer. Very rare to speak publicly rather than release a statement, for someone of his stature. I was so impressed by his serenity and joy. He has no hesitation in saying that the years post White House, when he has dedicated himself to advocating for the poor have brought him utmost joy; and being a President of the U.S. doesn’t begin to compare to that kind of satisfaction. At age 90, he has still been active, not just with financial donations, but with boots on the ground and hammer in hand, doing physical, manual labor to help those in need. He could have had a quiet, cozy retirement decades ago, but his joy has been to serve the poor. So remarkable. I think that anyone who commits to helping those less fortunate in the ways God calls them, whether being generous with time, money or talents will always be blessed in greater measure than they gave.
Wanda, your example of Jimmy Carter and his work for the poor and his dedication to advocating for them is an excellent one.