PROVERBS KEEPS TELLING US:
IT ALL BEGINS WITH THE HEART
OUR OWN LIZZY PLEADED FOR A PLAY–DOH HEART:
MALLEABLE IN THE HANDS OF THE POTTER
IT’S NOT JUST IN PROVERBS — IT’S THROUGHOUT:
EZEKIEL: A HEART OF STONE OR A HEART OF FLESH
SOLOMON: A FOOLISH HEART OR A WISE HEART
JESUS: A HEART THAT IS LIKE POOR SOIL OR RICH SOIL
THIS SUMMER I SAW THAT GOOD SOIL IN AMY,
A YOUNG WOMAN WHO JOINED OUR WOMEN’S BIBLE STUDY.
IT WAS SO STRIKING, SO RARE, AND SO BEAUTIFUL,
IT TOOK MY BREATH AWAY.
Amy is young, vibrant, and passionate. When she said she’d like to join our evangelistic study I was both pleased and cautious, for she’s like this little flame that can light up the room or overpower it. The first time she came I could tell it was an “overpowering” day for she was facing a genuine dilemma in her life, and she was dominating the discussion with her concerns. I knew I had a responsibility as the facilitator to talk to her, so I asked the Lord to give me an opportunity, during our coffee break, to do so. I asked my co-leader, Twila to pray, and no sooner had we prayed, that Amy walked into the little alcove where we were standing. So I took the plunge.
“Amy — we need your help. You and I talk easily, but we have some non-Christians here who need pauses in order to gather courage to speak up.”
Amy looked a bit trampled, and asked, timidly, “There are non-Christians here?”
“There are — and you could be so good at encouraging them — like you already did with Sonja.”
She brightened a bit. “I did?”
“You did! You told her she’d had a great insight.”
Quietly Amy returned to the living room and sat down. Had I put out her spirit? Would we lose her? I prayed not!
But in the next session Amy was WONDERFUL: drawing others out, encouraging, being that little flame that brightens the room. So when I got home I e-mailed her about how amazing she’d been.
In response she wrote an e-mail like I’ve seldom received, so rare it brought me to tears. In her humility of heart, she’s given me permission to print it.
Thank you, thank you, thank you Dee!! I told Eric tonight that the study this afternoon was a good “reset” for me. It gave me something else to think about and helped me keep things in perspective. Sometimes I have a tendency to only think about what I am going through, while giving little/no thought to what others may be dealing with. Having a strong leader like you keeps me from indulging my “tunnel vision.” I also don’t want my naturally outgoing tendency to silence the quieter ones, and this is a good chance for me to learn how to do that.
Now that I know what’s what, I will definitely be lifting up these women in prayer.I will pray with all the passion and intensity God has given me for these women! I love you too and cannot fully express what The Orchard and now your study have been doing in my life. I am convinced that God timed all of this to happen exactly when He knew I would need it, and that it is the vehicle He will use to transform me from the inside out.
One of the first signs of a teachable heart is how you respond to counsel. Next is to consider if you are truly seeing the fruit of a teachable heart in your life. That’s what we’ll consider this week.
We have reached the point in proverbs where Solomon writes: “Have I not written for you thirty sayings of counsel and knowledge?” (Proverbs 22:19) He’s actually written much more, a myriad of wise words that we need to receive in hearts that are tender and teachable. May the Lord give us each that kind of heart. Consider how you are responding to the following, for that will reveal if you have a heart that is like the good soil.
But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold (Mark 4:20)
Sunday: Icebreaker
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible.
Monday – Thursday: Important Concepts in Proverbs
Protecting the Poor
This is so important to the Lord — it’s throughout the prophets, the parables, the proverbs, and the teachings of Jesus. Prepare your heart with this from Sara Groves:
3. Read Proverbs 22:22-23. What is the command and what warning comes with it?
4. God is always concerned about the most vulnerable in our society. How do you see this in Proverbs 23:10?
5. And again in Proverbs 24:11-12. Command and warning?
6. Jesus talks so much about the poor. What parallel teaching do you see in Matthew 25:31-46?
7. Are you seeing growth in your life in this area? How could the gospel nourish this growth?
TRAINING THE YOUNG
8. What are the basic teachings of Proverbs 23:13-15. See also Proverbs 19:18 — a proverb that helped me so much as a young mother.
Ellen Davis comments: The sages’ advocacy of physical punishment of young children may be challenged in light of modern insights. But two cautions should be observed before a saying such as this one is wholly dismissed. First, the key word here is “discipline” (v. 13) which for the sages denotes primarily an internal disposition, not an application of force. They are wisely insistent that it is the parent’s responsibility to help the child acquire discipline early in life (“while there is hope”) Failure to do so is the most grievous form of child abuse.
On a personal note, I remember the tape I heard as a young mother said “Many rules, many infractions.” What Steve and I kept in mind three points for discipline: disobedience (willful); disrespect; and dishonesty. I have also so appreciated Paul Tripp’s teaching on getting to the heart instead of just encouraging outward obedience. I watch today’s children speak disrespectfully to parents, teachers, and see the society unraveling. It is so hard to establish authority when they are older — we must do it when they are young. As Solomon says, “If you refuse to discipline your child, you will ruin his life.”
9. How do you, with young children, teach them obedience without crushing their spirit and provoking them to give up? Give an illustration of how you get to the heart.
This summer I have had my grandchildren here a lot. Sadie has been here the most, so we are beginning to learn the Reformed Catechism for Young Children. Here is the link, and here is Sadie! Reformed Catechism for Young Children
10. Read Proverbs 23 in its entirety and share anything that quickens you.
ANSWERING EVIL
11. Why, according to Proverbs 24:1-5 should we not envy evil men?
12. In America and in the western world, persecution as been, as Keller says, more like a “sneer” than actual losses of freedom or life — but that is changing. How would you apply verse 10 to your life?
Rescue Those Being Led to Death
13. How do you apply verses 11 and 12?
14. Why should you not rejoice when your enemies fall according to verse 17?
15. Read Proverbs 24 in its entirety and share anything that quickens you.
Thursday-Friday Sermon
16. Share your notes or thoughts.
Saturday
17. What is your take-a-way and why?
168 comments
1. What stood out & why: Dee’s PROCESS in talking to Amy, as well as Amy’s response. Dee asked Twila to pray, approached Amy that same day, and recognized what Amy had done well. Giving an example of how Amy had encouraged someone helped Amy to build on that rather than only emphasizing that she should leave more space for others to talk. This stood out to me because I do need to approach someone about inappropriate behavior.,. And I would rather wait for the problem to go away on its own (which is not likely)
Renee, welcome back! It was Lizzy who emailed me and kept me updated concerning your illness, as I’m not on FB, so that I could pray. I’m so glad you’re getting better…you went through a lot and I am glad that God was with you and has been answering prayers.
Renee–so good to see you here–praying for this situation too
Renee nice to see you here. Not sure of all you have been going thru but will pray. Also pray you can address what you wrote of here with the Holy Spirits leading.
So good to see your post, Renee…best wishes with your discernment of how to approach that someone regarding inappropriate behavior.
Thank you Renee.
Lord, I lift up this situation for Renee and ask that You would show her when and how and prepare the individual’s heart. May she have a heart that responds.
First, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEE! (belated) We were out of town yesterday and I missed it! I do hope you had a wonderful day, and I am thankful for you, for your committment to us here, for your teaching, your encouragement, and your example.
Thank you dear Susan and all for your birthday greetings. You are all a big part of my life and a wonderful blessing.
Dee Happy Belated Birhday!
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
First, the reminder of “Lizzy’s play-doh heart” – so evident in her life! Secondly, Amy’s email to you, where she wrote, “Sometimes I have a tendency to only think about what I am going through, while giving little/no thought to what others may be dealing with. Having a strong leader like you keeps me from indulging my “tunnel vision”.” I can so identify with her words, as I can easily be so overcome by my own personal problems and feeling depressed that it does become like existing in a tunnel, unable to see any light and obviously unable to be aware of or even be sensitive to the needs and problems of others. In Amy’s case, it sounds more like a particular dilemma was so concerning her that day that she dominated the discussion; it doesn’t sound like she makes a habit of this. In my case, it is more like the downward spiral of self-pity which occurs frequently.
With Amy, I think you approached the situation so very wisely, Dee. You encouraged her by pointing out her strengths – how she encouraged Sonja, and how she could come alongside the women who weren’t yet believers. I don’t like to use the phrase, “constructive criticism” because you weren’t “critical” at all, but you had a responsibility to care for all the women in the group and see that everyone, especially the quiet ones, had opportunities to open up and share, so you knew you had to speak to Amy but you prayed and you didn’t criticize but you were constructive…you corrected in a way that built her up and encouraged her to use her gifts to help others.
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible.
It depends on who is giving it to me. I feel I can’t be as honest as possible here, to relate incidences between my husband and me, because it’s too “raw” and would not be honoring to him. I can only say that many times, his critical words are demeaning, mean, hurtful, and have, over time, made me feel withdrawn emotionally from him and indifferent. Being honest, at times I respond by saying hurtful things back.
From those who aren’t that close to me, or even in work situations, I can identify now that criticism can make me feel badly because of my approval idol. It can make me feel defensive (trying to justify myself instead of resting in the fact that God has justified me). I think someone here said something last week about trying to be their own defender; it’s so easy to do. I think the only times I have responded well to these things are when I know the person truly loves and cares for me and their approach is gentle and loving, yet truthful. That is rare.
Susan–oh you know my heart just aches with you over the daily pain you endure emotionally, and that’s a very difficult situation for anyone to imagine responding well too–you make a good point about the importance of how it is said. This is so wise “when I know the person truly loves and cares for me and their approach is gentle and loving, yet truthful.” It says a lot about you that you know it is in love the confronting doesn’t take away from their love for you, that is your teach-able-ness that is so evident. It’s also inspiring to me to want to be that person when I do need to share hard truths with others, and also to receive as you do
Susan I could duplicate your first paragraph. I was the one who spoke of being a defender for myself. I get confused with what is being defensive and what is trying to stand up for myself. Are they the same? A Christian counselor I saw when I gave her some examples did not think what I was doing was defensive. I really want to be open to TRUTH and would even like to have a good discussion on areas I need to improve on. I have found when I make myself vulnerable in these areas to someone who is being very offensive it loads up the barrels to a greater degree to only be used against me. Seems sick to me. Makes me less than enthusiastic to even have these types of conversations for fear of being trampled to death. I know I need to heal and to get grounded in who I am in Christ. One day at a time.
Liz, it seems that you and I are in much the same place, trying to find the balance between doormat and defensive.
Liz, this is a good question for me, too: What is the difference between being defensive and standing up for myself? Do you ever get on Leslie Vernick’s website? She has a lot of good resources on there. I find that when I “stand up for myself” it often leads to me being accused, then, of being argumentative, or not being able to “let it go”. It is frustrating.
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
Lizzy’s play dough heart-She is a lover of God!
The Orchard!! It filled me with joy to read Amy’s encouragement to Dee of how The Orchard has impacted her life. Just to think, before God moved Dee to Door County permanently, it was dry, and then He moved her there to plant this church for He wanted to awaken Door County to the Gospel-to His passionate Love for them and He already had Amy on His heart. It is beautiful!
Thirdly, the Gospel Life in Dee and Twila’s study group. Dee could have controlled things and sought Amy out but she didn’t. She and Twila prayed first and she waited on God and He brought Amy to them. Then His power making Amy’s heart receptive..then life giving emails between Dee and Amy. Dee didn’t have to follow up but she did, and Amy wrote back encouraging Dee about the Orchard-and it wasn’t just a nice letter thanking her but a powerful example of a Gospel centered heart-a play dough heart- a life changing by His hands. The whole scene is beautiful to me.
Sweet Rebecca. Yes — you see what I do in Amy!
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible.
It is painful hearing it at first because depending on what it is-if it exposes a deep idol root, it can hurt and I don’t like pain or conflict. Usually there is an idol underneath-kind of like having it’s claws in me and the person rebuking me ripped out one of them. My idols also cause me to take it at first as me being a big fat failure until the Gospel rips that to shreds as I sift it out before God. Now it is becoming more immediate for me to listen carefully and go before God. If it is someone like Dee I take it right away as counsel from Him and go before God. If it is from someone at work who says something like what I heard the other day-“don’t let people walk all over you-you are too nice. You have to stand up for yourself or others will take advantage of you”. Then I hesitate to take it as from Him right away-but my conclusion on that one after praying first is they were right. God helped me see why I let people walk on me-my approval idol. I struggle sometimes between working heartily as unto the Lord, or heartily to get a pat on the back, and I am willing to go the extra mile to get that pat, but it is getting better since doing Idol lies and studying Song of SOngs..He is helping me replace it with the Gospel. I want God more and more to be the ruler of my heart-He is my life.
It is hard to hear criticism but part of the refining process is expecting that and being willing to go through it-that is hard when my comfort idol cries out, but I have many stones of remembrance of how He has soothed me in this process of molding my heart-he doesn’t leave criticism at the door of my heart to hurt me-HE IS FOR ME so this is FOR ME to become more like Him..and He is with me-even in the chiseling.
Rebecca, your posts are always so honest…thank you.
I have to add..I SO agree with what Lizzy said here. I hope everyone gets to read what she wrote because I think it is core in regard to having a play dough heart: My activity/performance cannot equal my identity. If my performance = my acceptance, then I will be defensive. But if my acceptance is already secure in Christ, I can receive criticism with a teachable spirit.”
Rebecca loved your sharing here and especially the words HE IS FOR ME. And He is with me in chiseling.
OH the play-doh heart. I SO long for that. Amy’s example was excellent, so much stood out to me.
To be teachable, we must first recognize we are not complete as we are, we are not perfect! But we also have to have enough confidence in who God is, and His love for us, that we are not insecure. Amy was secure. I find that when I feel insecure about myself in an area or situation, I receive criticism more personally and am usually defensive.My activity/performance cannot equal my identity. If my performance = my acceptance, then I will be defensive. But if my acceptance is already secure in Christ, I can receive criticism with a teachable spirit.
We also have to value others enough to believe they can teach us. We have to be willing to listen and desire to grow. So often it is my own pride hinders me from being more teachable. God uses my children, daily, to show me my sin, His truth. If we are ready to be taught, we know He can and will use anyone to do it.
The other thing that stood out to me was how Dee handled it. She went to Amy quickly. She didn’t wait, let it get worse, she didn’t gossip or inwardly seethe about it. She prayed, and she confronted. I think that builds trust. How would Amy have felt if it wasn’t until months later, and she realized all this time everyone was bothered but not telling her? Also Dee’s delivery–she included genuine encouragement for the ways God has gifted Amy and gave her direction for how to use those gifts.
This is so true, Lizzy, that “I find that when I feel insecure about myself in an area or situation, I receive criticism more personally and am usually defensive. My activity/performance cannot equal my identity. If my performance=my acceptance, then I will be defensive.” So hard to get this through my head!
WoW did this hit home!
We also have to value others enough to believe they can teach us. We have to be willing to listen and desire to grow. So often it is my own pride hinders me from being more teachable. God uses my children, daily, to show me my sin, His truth. If we are ready to be taught, we know He can and will use anyone to do it!
WAY to often my pride keeps me from listening to others rebuke. I consider myself as better then them and do not honor then enough to think they could speak truth into my life!!! YUCK
Lizzy I too need to get this. The Lord has so much work to do in Me. I pray for a moldable heart.
So true about our identity and the importance of being secure in Him, Lizzy!
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
I love the example you gave of how you reached out to Amy to encourage her to be aware of others’ needs in your Bible study. Dee prayed, encouraged and solved a problem as well. Amy has a play-dough heart like Lizzy and many others here. This reminds me of the verse that says,Proverbs 4:2 (ESV) “Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.” I know my heart is prone to wander and wants its own way, but when I allow God to humble me and guide me, then I am teachable and able to help others.
Nice to see you here Diane. I have missed seeing you. Thanks for sharing Proverbs 4:2.
Sunday: Icebreaker
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
Lizzy’s words on having a malleable heart, Amy teachable, humble spirit and the way Dee approached Amy-with prayer and with great consideration for Amy’s well being yet balanced with her concern for the group. It was striking for me to read Dee taking the risk to lovingly exhort Amy and how the Lord blessed her step of faith to do so. I long for these types of sharpening from others.
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible.
It depends on the approach of the person who is rebuking me. Moreover the closer they are to me, the more painful rebuke seems to be for me and I can easily get defensive. Case in point: my husband and I were on our way to church this morning-I read Dee’s introduction here and Question # 2 as I was hurrying out the door. And wouldn’t you know it; my husband brought up something from last Sunday and I sensed his disappointment about how I handled a situation. It didn’t seem a big deal to me but it sounded like it was for him. And sure enough, I got defensive and next time he said something else, my defenses were already up. I feel like I am not in the place where I used to be in this area of responding to counsel, criticism or rebuke but I certainly still do need some heavenly help.
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
I could relate to Amy and her domination of the conversation ….long gaps without anyone responding to group discussion are uncomfortable for me and I feel the need to interject. It must have been awkward Dee, to have that discussion with her; you are brave! She seems like a sweetie though in how she “took” the talk.
She is rare, Laura. She lives out the above proverb!
3. Read Proverbs 22:22-23. What is the command, and what warning comes with it?
The command: Do not exploit (to use someone in a way that helps you unfairly) the poor; do not crush the needy in court. The Message says, “Don’t walk on the poor just because they’re poor, and don’t use your position to crush the weak.”
The warning: The Lord will take up their case; He will defend them and take back from those who took from the poor.
4. God is always concerned about the most vulnerable in our society. How do you see this in Proverbs 23:10?
The Message translation: “Don’t stealthily move back the boundary lines or cheat orphans out of their property” The cross-ref was Deuteronomy 19:14, which says that you are not to move your neighbor’s boundary stone set up by your predecessors. From what little I know about Jewish culture, the land, the inheritance of the land, was a big deal. The next verse, Proverbs 23:11, again says that God is the Defender of the fatherless, and that He is strong and will take up their case against the one who cheats the vulnerable out of their land. Orphans are very vulnerable, and God cares about them and warns against taking advantage of them.
5. And again in Proverbs 24:11-12. Command and warning?
Command: Get involved – do something, be a rescuer! The Message: “Rescue the perishing; don’t hesitate to step in and help.”
Warning: Don’t think you can pretend that you don’t see, that you are unaware of what’s happening. The Message: “If you say, hey, that’s none of my business, will that get you off the hook? Someone is watching you closely…Someone not impressed with weak excuses.” God will repay you according to what you have done (or not done).
This made me think of those who bravely tried to help rescue Jews during the WWII, people like Oscar Schindler, Corrie tenBoom and her family, Bonhoeffer who spoke out, Hans and Sophie Scholl…there was an article not long ago in my local newspaper about a man who had died, and his daughter said that her father had helped get some Jewish children out of Germany and into England into “foster homes” – families willing to take them in and care for them; many who were later orphaned. This man never sought recognition for what he had done, but surely God knows. There are many others who need a rescue, who need to be confronted with the truth, spoken in love…confronted with their sin, or those who need to be told about the good news of Jesus because they are perishing without Him. Each of us has someone in our lives; it may not be as dramatic as the heroes of the war. Someone may be “perishing” inside because of loneliness and they need you/me to reach out to them…perishing in grief and sorrow and they need a comforter.
Susan, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! To my beautiful sister with a quiet spirit and a contemplative, tender heart! You ARE beautiful and I thank God for you. I am also so glad I had the honor of meeting you face to face. I agree with Lizzy-you are a godly, wise woman who has taught me a lot about longsuffering in the midst of adversity-you are so like Him. I love you sweet Susan!! Have a wonderful day!
Yes, Susan — i remember our birthdays are close. You are a dear sister.
Susan Happy Birthday!
As I read your comments on the warning Susan this hymn my mom used to sing came to mind:
Love these words, Chris…especially the chorus!
Happy birthday, dear Susan! I hope your day has been good. My Day 24 on my monthly prayer calendar includes you. The Lord keep you and bless.
HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO SWEET SWEET SUSAN!!! Oh what a treasure you are to all of us Susan, and how thankful I am He gave me our friendship. How timely that your birthday should fall on the lesson with the big play-doh heart! You have such a soft heart, tender and full of compassion. You teach me with the way you listen well and think deeply, always looking through the lens of the God’s Truth. You are so wise. I am so thankful for you Susan, blessings to you today and always!
Oh Lizzy…we wouldn’t have the lesson with the big play-doh heart if not for YOU! Thank you, and I am thankful for your friendship, too!
What stood out to you from the above and why?
Amy’s recognition of the perfect timing of the Holy Spirit stood out to me. I love that you church plant there in Wisconsin is bearing fruit Dee! Your willingness to speak the truth in love is a hopeful example to us. And I love the hand pictures, the heart and the seedling, the seedlings in the hand pictures always make me think of ‘holding forth the Word of Life’ 🙂
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible.
I can be undone by it, dissolving to the point of feeling like I shouldn’t go on in life. I can quickly devolve, making me and my performance the center of my thought life.
But… thanks largely to the teaching here, I have grown. I do see the battle now, I recognize the way the enemy works me over and that I am placing my self worth in the approval of man, this has become ugly to me. Knowing this I am better able to resist, to combat the lies with truth and shift my focus off of me and onto Christ.
As some of you do, I long for more deep relationships with people who are willing to speak truth in love to me. I know I am blind in many ways, I want to invite people who have discernment to speak truth to me, I told a friend recently I am not afraid of repentance. I feel like our church relationships are often times so shallow, it grieves me.
3. Read Proverbs 22:22-23. What is the command and what warning comes with it?
Not to oppress the poor or the afflicted, the warning is that God will judge those who do this. The Amplified Bible gave a sobering reference to Malachi 3:5:
“Then I will draw near to you for judgment; I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against the false swearers, and against those who oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, and who turn aside the temporary resident from his right and fear not Me, says the Lord of hosts. “
That is a sobering Malachi verse. Oh help us Lord, to see and love as You do.
4. God is always concerned about the most vulnerable in our society. How do you see this in Proverbs 23:10? God’s people are commanded not to take advantage of defenseless people. The Amplified Bible referenced Deut. 19:14 which reminds that God has given the land that is possessed, nothing truly belongs to us.
my heart broke a little as I read this lesson. I have to be on the “giving advice” side so often and WAY to often I dont do it with the grace and wisdom that Dee did.
But more convicting is that I have hardened my heart to really hearing when people correct me. Its really funny because just recently I have had some people come into my life that are life givers, they just poor praise and gratitude onto me and this has made me WAY more open to hearing it when they see something that needs work in my life.
I SO want to be a life giver to those around me!! “kind words are like a honeycomb, sweet and life giving” (Cyndi version) When we truly believe that God thinks we are wonderful we can hear it when we need corrected. some times we need people with skin on to help us believe Gods truth. I want to be that for others and thank God for people that are that for me. Thank you for your example DEE!
Dear Cyndi.
I love it when you are here Cyndi :~)
Cyndi I want to be a life giver as well.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY SUSAN!! praying that you have a wonderful day, filled with little moments of sweetness and words that fill your soul! you are a precious daughter of the king, hope you FEEL that today 🙂
6. Jesus talks so much about the poor. What parallel teaching do you see in Matthew 25:31-46?
I noticed that the neither the just and upright or the cursed were aware of the behavior Jesus was commending or condemning them for.
The more we love Christ, the more we die to our old selves and live as new creations, treating others well should be a natural organic thing for us, whereas for those who do not love Christ, following their fleshly desires, without regard to the wisdom and knowledge of God or how their behavior affects others, apathy will often seem right and proper to them.
These verses from Proverbs came up as references for the Matthew text:
17:5 “Whoever mocks the poor reproaches his Maker, and he who is glad at calamity shall not be held innocent or go unpunished”
14:31 “He who oppresses the poor reproaches, mocks, and insults his Maker, but he who is kind and merciful to the needy honors Him.”
19:17 “He who has pity on the poor lends to the Lord, and that which he has given He will repay to him.”
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible.
I think I pretty much answered this in what I wrote above (sort of combined 1 & 2). I will add, I think it’s easy for me to blame my response on the delivery. Dee’s example is a great one, and a model for me when I’m giving correction, but few people are that mature! BUT, when I do not respond well to criticism, I cannot just blame the delivery. I’m so tempted to say “well, if you had just said it a little nicer…”, that may be true, but if I’m honest–the real problem with my response lies within. I do often seek out correction, as Chris mentioned, I too long for honest input and wisdom. I regularly ask my husband and prayer partners. But that is when I’m in a place to “handle it”! As I said before, when I am not basing my acceptance on Who Christ is and what He did–then I am on that wobbly ground of self-reliance, deep down thinking I am my own savior. So when someone corrects me in that wobbly place–I fall apart and am quick to blame how they said it, and defend myself. I realize there are better ways to give criticism, and I need to be so careful when I am the one giving it, but I feel like when I’m receiving it, I can’t let my response depend on how it’s said. If I’m fully resting in Him, I want to just be quiet, ask Him to help me see the truth in it–trust God to use it. Sorry–bit of a long-winded ramble!
” I can’t let my response depend on how it’s said. If I’m fully resting in Him, I want to just be quiet, ask Him to help me see the truth in it–trust God to use it.”
Well said Lizzy, I shouldn’t let my response depend on how it is delivered…buts sometimes I do!
I need more humility sometimes than I have on hand 🙂
sweet Chris–I’m not even a “sometimes”–I feel like I am terrible at receiving criticism! Unless I ask–which is when I’m (more) “ready”–but I guess those times I am ready are only because I’m resting in Him…all goes back to that, doesn’t it?! YOU have taught me SO much about what it looks like to really depend on Him for your every breath, every step…oh how my pride trips me up!
Happy Birthday to you dearest Susan! I hope is year brings blessings pressed down and shaken together and running over! 🙂
7. Are you seeing growth in your life in this area? How could the gospel nourish this growth?
I see growth in that I see how often in the past I short circuited impulses to be generous out of concerns about finances. My parents drilled into us a tightwad, don’t owe anyone anything, be careful because bad times are coming mentality. My husbands financial disposition is quite different 🙂 I used to obsess about financial missteps to the point of damaging my marriage. I decided to submit my concerns to the Lord, to speak them to my husband and trust that God will work all thing together for good.
Once on Midday Connection Anita Lustrea remarked that she had adopted a resolve that I think one of the Moody presidents has shared to ‘never suppress a generous impulse’ I have tried to make this resolve mine too. To trust that God owns the cattle on a thousand hillsides, He will supply my needs, or choose in His wisdom a time of hardship for me. I am okay ( at least 98% of the time) with trusting Him with my husbands heart and decisions the details. The gospel helps me to be generous with others by giving them grace too, I thought again yesterday of the picture Susan shared of drinking grace greedily, letting it spill down my neck, how can I not want that for others too?
Chris, I can SO identify with you on this. I was also taught to be careful with money and I do find it hard to be generous (and, for the most part, to spend money at all.) Yet, the Lord has been whispering to me about being generous. I have a long way to go in following well, dying to the fearful self and honoring God with my generosity!
I am praying for you and for me this morning Diane, that we would honor God in the way we think about and handle money. In Elyse Fitzpatrick’s book Overcoming Fear Worry and Anxiety she talked about how we elevate our preferences to the level of right and wrong. This was true of me in the way I felt about money. It drove a wedge between Bill and me. I was filled with anxiety about what I perceived as being frivolous and wasting money. When I begin to think this way the level of unrest it creates in me helps me to recognize it as sin.
I love that “never suppress a generous impulse.”
Reminds me of one pastor who said, “I receive every gift with thankgiving, even if I have to bury it in the backyard.” 🙂
Happy Birthday, Susan!
1. What stood out to you from the above and why?
The emphasis on the heart…I have been thinking recently how it seems like everything comes down to love…the love that is in the heart…e.g., is the love genuine or superficial?, is it of the Lord or focused on self?, is primary first and foremost or secondary allowed into the primary position(s)?
I was drawn to the picture of the small seedling…I’m always amazed to ponder what the “smallest of seeds” can produce, not only in nature but in the scheme of life.
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke?
How I respond to counsel, criticism, or rebuke is largely based upon the respect I hold for the person, the relationship, the person’s intention, and the manner in which the counsel, criticism, or rebuke are given. Similar to Amy, if I have respect for someone, know that their intention is loving, I would be open and appreciative of the counsel provided. I would believe that what they are sharing with me is truth and in my best interest. On the other hand, if I don’t respect the person, question their intention, or the counsel, criticism, or rebuke is done in a derogatory manner, more often than not, I will blow it off.
Happy birthday, Susan! I hope you have had a lovely day with all kinds of encouragement coming your way. Thanks for being so tender, honest and encouraging to many of us here.
1. What stood out to you from the above and why? The gentle way that you approached Amy. I was in a group once where the leader actually interrupted someone and said, “OK it’s time to let someone else speak.” It needed to be addressed, but that seemed a bit harsh.
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible. Not as well as I should, but better than I used to 🙂 It depends on who it is coming from. I can take it pretty well from my counselor, from my husband not as well. I used to take all of it as a put down and the person pretty much telling me that they don’t like me or accept me or that they are a control freak and want to tell everyone how to act.
Now I am slowing my reaction time and trying to reflect on what they are actually saying and not resorting to my defensiveness.
Happiest of birthdays, Susan!!
Susan…I’ve had you on my mind all day! Praying you are having a wonderful day for your birthday and EVERYDAY until we are in our real home…with Jesus!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! !!
I miss all of you so much…my fault…but I just couldnt keep up… even with the comments .. as much as I enjoy them.
I’m doing okay…need a very serious back surgery of more fusing up my spine…7 more vertibraes:( I’ve already had 5 or 6 done from my lower back up.
But he wants to do all of them at once…meaning 6 months to a year recovery time. I’m 66 and starting to really feel my age. Kendra of course is my biggest worry. Her Disabilities require 24 hour care…much more than a few hours a day of extra help that I get now.
I ask if he could only do half at a time…he says my back is so bad it all needs done or I could be paralyzed or bent over in a wheelchair permanently. I’m walking bend over now and can’t stand up straight anymore.
Please pray for answers. I wasn’t going to do write about me…and here I go. I’m Sorry. I have so much to be thankful for…the Lord blesses me moment to moment each and every day! I love you all!
Joyce, what a delight it is to see you here…you are loved. I am SO glad that you posted about your upcoming surgery, concerns with Kendra’s care and your anticipated recovery time, and asking for prayer. I will be praying very specifically for these needs and answers. Please keep us updated. Love to you, Joyce.
Joyce so glad to see you and I will pray for youlichen I have experienced a small amount of back pain I have had such a compassion for those who have severe levels. Caring for one with disabilities I am sure is a lot. My friend just lost her 32 year old daughter I remember meeting her for the very first time it was hard to keep back my tears. I had struggled with my oldest daughters illness but when I saw my friends daughter I just felt this deep grief of how consumed I was with my own situation, it was a real breaking experience. Not sure if that makes sense how I just explained that.
Joyce, it’s so wonderful to “see” you here! Thank you! And please – don’t ever feel badly about sharing your concerns with us! I’m not on FB (yet) so I miss a lot of prayer requests. I’m so sorry you are facing another back surgery, but it does, indeed, sound necessary. I will pray for wisdom for the doctors. Please let us know when you have the date for your surgery. I am hoping you have some extra help lined up at that time for Kendra?
Joyce, so glad to see you posting here with an update on your back situation. So sorry you need back surgery again (though I suspected you might due to your ongoing pain). Oh dear Joyce, I am praying that you will find a solution for Kendra’s care so that you can have the surgery you urgently need. Please don’t put the surgery off!
Joyce – I just now was reading through comments a bit and saw this entry from you ……oh dear one I am SO SORRY for the continuing trial of chronic pain that you have been living. 🙁 And your desires to be strong for Kendra can surely only add to the depth of the heartache. I have always seen in you that as the pressures of this fallen world bear down on you, the sweetness of Christ pours out of you. You are a shining star of HIS encouragement to others! As we have been going through Proverbs, here is a Proverb that is “you” – Proverbs 11:25 (ESV) says “Whoever brings blessing will be enriched, and one who waters will himself be watered.” The NIV ends the verse this way: “whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.” We’ve both walked with God long enough to know that we cannot begin to predict exactly WHAT that refreshment and watering will look like…..but He will come through for you, dear Joyce! I also think of the Scripture that Nila was given this week from Isaiah 63:9….”in all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.” What a God is our Father! 🙂 Your Father has redeemed you dear Joyce – and He will carry you all of your days.
Happy birthday Susan! Hope your day was awesome 🙂
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible.
I am my own worst critic, so no one can say anything worse than me about myself 🙁 my self esteem is pretty low; I have a self loathing thing that goes on that I have to fight. When I am criticized I don’t take it very well. If you asked me to stop talking so much, Dee, I would probably cry and leave the meeting. Unfortunately, I think it stems from dance and how perfect dancers think they need to be. They are always looking at every little thing in the mirror to catch all the flaws. It is very vain. I don’t like mirrors in our studio for that reason.
Laura dancer, I can identify with much that you say about how you respond to criticism. I have even been struggling with how to respond to question 2 since I saw it on Sunday. Even admitting how much I struggle on this issue is extremely difficult. I wonder if the source of my insecurity is partly because I was a pastor’s kid and am a pastor’s wife. I live in a “glass house”. Someone came to the door this morning while I was still in my pjs (though it was mid-morning). I was embarrassed and felt criticized, though the person said and implied NOTHING disapproving to me. I feel I must always be perfect; a warped kind of perfection that is even impossible and undesirable, really. I certainly am my own worst critic! Even after these years here, although I am SO much better than I was in regard to needing the approval of others and in wanting to be in control, this question makes me realize that I still have a LONG journey to go to let God truly be the only one whose approval is important to me. Deep sigh!
Deep sigh for me too Diane. I guess I’m glad I’m not alone? I will pRay for us…..
3. Read Proverbs 22:22-23. What is the command and what warning comes with it?
We are to not rob the poor or God will rob us of life.
4. God is always concerned about the most vulnerable in our society. How do you see this in Proverbs 23:10?
This says to stay away from those who are fatherless. I’m not sure what it means when it talks about an “ancient landmark.” I guess maybe it is referring to old places that are not modernized, where poor people might live because it’s all they have?
5. And again in Proverbs 24:11-12. Command and warning?
We are to rescue those who are dying (for different reasons); the Lord is watching and will take care to note whether you are avoiding these people or not.
Laura, In Proverbs 23:10 it speaks of staying out of the fields of the fatherless and not to move the ancient landmarks. What it means is to not to rob or swindle the fatherless out of what is theirs. The ancient landmarks are land boundaries. If someone was to move them then they would be stealing land from the rightful owner. The fatherless have no one to stand up for them in court when someone is stealing their land or crops.
thank you Dawn! That makes sense!
6. Jesus talks so much about the poor. What parallel teaching do you see in Matthew 25:31-46?
He will separate us into “goats” and “sheep.” He will tell the sheep they are blessed because they took care of the hungry, the thirsty, and those in need. He will say the sheep will inherit the kingdom of God because they cared for strangers, visited prisoners (Dee!), and clothed the naked.
7. Are you seeing growth in your life in this area? How could the gospel nourish this growth?
I don’t see a lot of growth here because I am not exposed to people who are too different from myself. Our church has a group go to Haiti this past summer to build a well for water in a small community there. I get caught up in my crazy life and don’t usually have “extra” money to do these types of trips. I suppose I am doing what I can at school with those less fortunate, but I don’t think it’s enough. I am the one who turns the other way because I don’t think there is that much I can do for the “poor.” I’m not that wealthy myself. My taxes keep going up and up and we (the middle class) continue to have less money to give or to use to do this type of work. If I had lower taxes, I would have more money to give to my church and potentially be able to save and go on one of these mission trips. I tried to visit someone in prison a couple of years ago but he never responded to my letter (you have to be asked by the inmate).
As I mentioned, I try in my own little way to help in my community. I have taken my children to soup kitchens to serve, I give clothing to Salvation Army, I help distribute food baskets at Christmas to a poor family in the community, I am now a co-advisor to Key club at the school and plan to help with a program called “68 hours of hunger” where students leave school on Friday afternoon and potentially won’t eat until they come back to us Monday morning (their families come pick up groceries to feed the family over the weekend), and, of course, my own daughter is a needy adult with no job and a baby due in October (does she count?). I wish I could do more, but there is money and the time that is constraining.
3. Read Proverbs 22:22-23. What is the command and what warning comes with it?
The command is not to take advantage of the poor; do not abuse, manipulate, or take advantage of those of lesser means. The warning is that although they might be unable to protect themselves against the wiles, the Lord will avenge for the wrong done to them.
4. God is always concerned about the most vulnerable in our society. How do you see this in Proverbs 23:10?
The concern expressed in this text is for the fatherless; it is a directive not to trample on the rights of the fatherless, but to allow them all that they are rightfully entitled to without encroachment.
5. And again in Proverbs 24:11-12. Command and warning?
The command is to protect the vulnerable, to stand in their defense, not to turn a “blind eye.” The warning is that all (i.e., what is known and unknown, heart motivation) is seen by the Lord, and one may “fool” those around them, but the Lord knows all. We are responsible for the care and defense of others and will be held responsible for our actions by the One who knows all.
6. Jesus talks so much about the poor. What parallel teaching do you see in Matthew 25:31-46?
In this text Jesus is talking about what was done and not done to help a fellow brother/sister in need. It is reiterated in this text that the Lord knows all…He knows if the heart is loving with action coming from a heart of love, or if the focus is on self and to heck with anyone else regardless of need, if it doesn’t serve “me” than forget it mentality. To be a true follower of Jesus, obedient to His calling on our life, we must have a heart of love and compassion, and from that heart of love be motivated to love our fellow wo/man, serving one another and especially those most vulnerable.
8. What are the basic teachings of Proverbs 23:13-15.
I think it teaches that disciple in necessary to keep the child from real and greater hardship. It is so hard to see the child you love distraught. It feels like we are wired from the moment they come out to meet every need, to assure contentment. But when a child turns into toddler, things have to change. As adults who love them part of our job is to make that child aware that they are not the center of the universe, finding this out is hard stuff!
For Proverbs 19:18 I greatly prefer the Amplified Bible
“ Discipline your son while there is hope, but do not [indulge your angry resentments by undue chastisements and] set yourself to his ruin.”
I have indulged angry resentments, I don’t know who as a parent can keep from it 100% of the time, parenting is tough! I did resolve not to physically disciple my children when I was angry, it was a good resolve to have.
THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY WISHES! I had a very nice birthday with my family…only one son away at college, but he called me!
6. Jesus talks so much about the poor. What parallel teaching do you see in Matthew 25:31-46?
Jesus teaches here the importance of caring for the poor, those who don’t have enough food, or clothing; those who are sick, those who are in prison. He says that when we help and provide for them and take care of them and visit them, it is as if we are doing these things for Him.
But something about this passage troubles me, because it seems to support the “works salvation” idea. Those who do these things go on to eternal life, and those who don’t, go to punishment. Then, I think of many throughout the world, who do humanitarian work – they do work for the poor, the hungry, the oppressed – but they are not believers; yet, they are doing these good things. Then, I think of my own motives, even when I do helpful things and how often my motives are tainted with wanting affirmation for myself. I can’t even claim that my motives are pure, every time.
Don’t you think Susan that it is evidence that they are saved rather than supporting works theology?
Yes, Dee…I do see that growing in this area of serving, of even having the desire to serve, is evidence of His life in us. Yet I still ponder those who aren’t believers and yet have a great inner desire to serve and help others (I know only God knows their true motives and some may be selfish, yes) – how or where do they get this goodness from?
Susan, all of us are incapable of ANY good thing on our own. Every good deed, thought or feeling comes from the Lord. The saved and the unsaved, the righteous and the unrighteous all benefit from His grace and are given “goodness” as He in His wisdom sees fit. The unsaved are capable of good works and the pleasant feelings that they get from doing something nice for someone.
Susan – that is an excellent question. One I have spent time thinking on so MUCH through the years. I remember even Elisabeth Elliot talking about living with what we would have called at that time “uncivilized natives” in South America . She carefully watched the way that they lived together in community and was astonished to find herself thinking that they were more “Christian” in the way that they treated one another than the Christians that she knew! She began to question what DIFFERENCE the gospel would make in how they lived their day to day lives. I was so very relieved that someone that I respected as much as Elisabeth E. would actually acknowledge this dilemma!! Something that I was seeing myself in certain individuals I knew who were unbelievers but living incredibly unselfish and caring and giving lives. Of course I don’t know their hearts….but I don’t know my OWN heart either! 🙂
To me though, this really does all come back to the idea of “common grace” as theologians would say. It’s become something I really rest easy with these days. I turned to John Macarthur and found these words he had to say about common grace – “To some measure even unbelievers benefit from God’s grace. Theologians call that ‘common grace’ because it is common to all mankind. Common grace is God’s continual care for all creation, providing for his creatures’ needs. Through common grace God restrains humanity from utter debauchery and maintains order and some sense of beauty, morality, and goodness in society’s consciousness.” The idea of morality and goodness in society simply cannot be denied. I have found that if I believe that is explained by God’s common grace, I can celebrate it fully ……even while still recognize the fallen sin nature that dwells in every single human being – in need of the blood of Christ for salvation. As one of His disciples, I need to focus on “things unseen” and not worry too much about the things I do see right before my eyes. Either good or evil. There is such a simple beauty in living this way. NOT that I am “there” ……but that’s where I’m aiming to be!! Once again this brings me back to God’s mysterious Sovereignty…..where I can find true Sabbath rest.
I think Jackie’s answer is excellent on Susan’s question. And thanks, Jackie, for your thoughts and the MacArthur quote on “uncommon grace”. I am so grateful that God is merciful. I shudder to think how bad things would be if God removed his hand and Satan had free reign.
I thought of this:“If you wait until your motives are pure and unselfish before you do something, you will wait forever.” ― Timothy Keller
7. Are you seeing growth in your life in this area? How could the gospel nourish this growth?
I need more growth in this area. I don’t regularly come into contact with those who are poor. My own family takes up the majority of my time. However, last Sunday, the missions pastor of our church spoke to my ABF class, and was talking about local ministries that our church is involved in. He made the comment that most of us may never go far away on a missions trip, but there are so many opportunities in our community and he said that the biggest need they relate is not for more money, but for more volunteers. So I was thinking, because my daughter must have service hours that are required at the school she attends, that we could select a local group and volunteer together. I try to keep my eyes and ears open for potential needs. This example was several years ago, but there was a woman in a Bible study I was in that had young children and the family was struggling financially, even with just buying groceries. So a few of us got together and we asked everyone in the class to bring an item, like laundry detergent, paper products, cleaning supplies, toilet paper, etc…and we “showered” her with these provisions. Also, and this was several years ago, a neighbor of mine was working as a secretary at a public school, and was telling me about talking to a mom who said she couldn’t afford all the school supplies her child needed. I thought, such a small thing I could to – I went to Walmart and purchased crayons, glue sticks, etc…and gave them to my neighbor to give to this woman and said no need to tell her where it came from. I think there are many things like these that we can do if we just keep our ears to the ground!
I forgot to answer: how could the gospel nourish this growth? I’m not sure…I don’t think we should look at helping others as another “rule” to follow. We are graciously forgiven and justfied by the work of Jesus and His death on the Cross, so it’s not like we’re earning points with God. And if I waited for my motives to always be pure, I’d never do anything. I think it may be that looking at Him, at His beauty, at His great love and sacrifice for me, will stir my affections for Him and make me want to bless others and share out of the abundance of what He has given me; knowing that even if I fail or it’s not “perfect”, He still loves me. Like Rebecca said, He is FOR me and will encourage me, not condemn me for messing up.
Susan, I need to keep my ears to the ground.
That’s what I do Susan…keep my ears and eyes open..If there is a need.
I think God brings our attention to a need to see how we respond to it sometimes. To ignore it is really the sin. To respond to it, out of a loving and giving heart…with no greed …is what he loves.
Giving annonamous is hard for me sometimes because my human sinful nature wants to receive the glory and honor of giving it. How greedy and it is an idol and sin to give…wanting approval.
Thank you all and I will keep you posted about the surgery and care for Kendra. Thanks so much for your prayers.
This is really good, Joyce, that “God brings our attention to a need to see how we respond to it sometimes. To ignore it is really ths sin.”
Happy birthday Susan, belated 🙂
“Whatever you do to the least of these, you do unto me.”
I always have marveled at the compassion of Christ towards the poor, downtrodden and marginalized. It is counter culture and radical. And His actions would still raise eyebrows nowadays. Times haven’t changed. And He still calls us to follow Him and His example. Sarah Groves song brought tears to my eyes. I can not turn my eyes away from what is closest to the heart of my Savior without being affected myself. When we are in Christ, we see people through His eyes. We are gifting our Savior with the high call of service when we reach out to the poor.
7. Are you seeing growth in your life in this area? How could the gospel nourish this growth?
I am not where I want to be in my love for the poor. The gospel can help remind me that there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female, rich or poor that is beyond the reach of the Savior. He died for us all. The well spring of love and acceptance I have received from Jesus can overflow into the streets and other places where the poor are. I just need to obey as He prompts. Somebody said “never suppress a generous impulse”. I just need to do it and not spend too much time picking apart my motive or deciding whether the person is deserving of my generosity or not.
8. What are the basic teachings of Proverbs 23:13-15. See also Proverbs 19:18 — a proverb that helped me so much as a young mother.
We are to discipline our children or they might end up with their souls in “Sheol.” I had to look it up….it’s the home of the departed spirits. “Discipline” is a broad term. What does this look like? As I explained in another post, I didn’t spank my children very often, only when they were in danger (crossing a street). I would love others to pipe in here…I also used “time outs.” What did others do? How did the second Proverb help you really Dee, as a young mother? was it just a reminder to discipline? What do you mean by “help?”
In addition to time outs, I would have them experience the consequences of their actions.
For example, when my daughter was a sophomore in high school, she was told explicitly not to go to her boyfriend’s house after school, she was to take the bus home. When the bus came and went and she didn’t get off, my suspicion of where she was at and her disobedience was proved correct in a phone call to her boyfriend’s house. The time frame of this incident was right before homecoming. As a consequence to her bold disobedience, she was not allowed to go to the homecoming dance. Oh was she was really bummed, and truth be known I was bummed for her; I even received a call from her boyfriend’s mother trying to coax me into allowing her to go. It was a life lesson…she didn’t go to the dance as a result of her deciding to not listen to what she was told and to do her own thing in disobedience.
7. Are you seeing growth in your life in this area? How could the gospel nourish this growth?
I do see progress. I am so much more aware and mindful of what is going around me, my heart truly aching for the vulnerable (e.g., humans trafficked), and drawing back from judgment in some circumstance with the realization that only the Lord knows the heart, prior experiences, etc. I also know that progress needs to be made. All too often I feel a nudge, see a need and rather than “getting to it,” I put it off due to lack of time or energy with the intention of getting to it “tomorrow” rather than making it a priority and getting it done “today.” This is definitely an edge that needs growth.
The gospel helps me to face my shortcomings (truth), yet in a manner that is gentle rather than condemning (mercy); with truth and gentleness I can strive to be more expedient and obedient in my responding to the Lord’s nudges regarding needs and actions.
Jackie, are you okay? Did I miss a comment that mentioned you would be away? Missing you…
Nanci – you are so dear, as always to notice…..I am reading the Scriptures here and pondering the questions – but am having a hard time reading all of the postings and making my own postings this week! A lot of my dog boarding clients went on last minute summer vacations and I’m overflowing with pups!! 🙂 All good….and slowing down quite a bit in September. A much more sane pace! Thanks for asking!
8. What are the basic teachings of Proverbs 23:13-15. See also Proverbs 19:18 – a proverb that helped me so much as a young mother.
Proverbs 23:13-15 tells us not to withhold discipline from a child and talks about punishing him with the rod to save his soul from death. Okay…I did some internet searching, and this commentary by John Rosemond is very good: http://www.parentingbythebook.com/Proverbs-1324.html. Rosemond makes the distinction between discipline and punishment. I personally do not believe that this passage literally means that by using the rod, or spanking, will necessarily bring about repentance in the child. Rosemond writes this: Used metaphorically, therefore, rod-like discipline (a) is consistent and true, (b) emanates from a legitimate authority, and (c) establishes boundaries and compels action and/or change.
Spanking, used appropriately, may be required in some instances. Children are all different. I had one son who would literally dissolve into tears with stern words from me and would immediately be sorry. But I believe that true and good discipline is leadership and authority by the parent…it is discipling your children. I’m not speaking for or against spanking here because it’s just too oversimplistic to boil down these verses to say that spanking is the solution. Verse 15 goes on to say that as a parent, you will have joy in your heart when you see evidence of wisdom in your child.
Proverbs 19:18 speaks about disciplining your child because therein lies hope…if you don’t set any boundaries or limits, it’s like being a willing party to his death. This would seem to be the overly permissive approach – just let them do whatever they want without any consequences. This verse may be helpful when as a parent you feel overwhelmed and too tired and just feel like saying whatever…or, when you are more concerned wtih your children liking you that you are afraid to set limits and impose consequences. I can now look back, since I’ve learned about idols, and see how many times I did have an approval idol with my children and didn’t want to be the bad guy.
H
8. What are the basic teachings of Proverbs 23:13-15. See also Proverbs 19:18 — a proverb that helped me so much as a young mother.
Proverbs 23:13-15 speaks to the need for discipline. Children need boundaries to know what is right/wrong, appropriate/inappropriate, etc. To not give them boundaries and discipline when crossing the boundaries is to leave them deficient. I view “discipline” not in the corporal punishment sense, but as consequences (natural and parentally imposed) for disobedience, poor behavior, violation of boundaries, etc. Discipline shows the child the err of his/her ways and (hopefully) sets him/her on the right path once again.
1. What stood out to you from the above and why? Amy’s willingness to not only change her actions but to humbly accept a “new role.” She truly accepted wisdom and desired to be helpful and so was. This stood out to me because I think I would have remained hurt and so been silent and observant waiting for reassurance that I was liked and accepted before being able to contribute helpfully. This may have only lasted 5 minutes? Or perhaps 5 days? But it would have been selfish….
2. How well do you respond to counsel, criticism, even rebuke? Be as honest as possible. It depends on who it is. I am still often plagued by concerns that people will reject me and so take their feedback as such. But with those close to me (my husband, best friend, mom…) I am grateful. I can also respond in gratitude to criticism with non-heart issues in other situations with those that know me less-well. (Though I cannot think of many who would rebuke a heart issue in an acquaintance?) I used to strive to be right, a l w a y s, but He has shown me that there is so much to know and His hand can work quicker and easier when I admit and see my short comings. And my focus should not be on me and the “criticism” but on Him and how to glorify Him and accept what He has put in my path.
3. Read Proverbs 22:22-23. What is the command and what warning comes with it? Do not rob the poor or crush the afflicted or God will rob your life.
4. God is always concerned about the most vulnerable in our society. How do you see this in Proverbs 23:10? Those without fathers may be very young and it would be easy to take their land or their crops. Even if they were not young “fatherless” indicates vulnerability and the command is to leave their rightful possessions be.
5. And again in Proverbs 24:11-12. Command and warning? The command is to save those who are being put to death. The warning is that God knows your heart and your motives so excuses don’t fly here. This lines up with James 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. However I would say that it also allows for true ignorance, if someone really did not know of a situation.
This is a difficult command and warning because in our day and age there are SO MANY hardships that we are aware of due to access to information! Ebola, abortion, trafficking, homeless, refugees in many countries, persecution In even more countries, those with no access to water, abuse, neglect, addiction , those starving to death…. not to mention the spiritual battles going on in the world: those lost or misunderstanding the gospel. Perhaps the message is to do something, anything, just pick one, but where to start, what to do?! Which task would the Lord give me (and yes, I pray about this often)?
6. Jesus talks so much about the poor. What parallel teaching do you see in Matthew 25:31-46? To take care of those in need depending on their need. And our help to these is equated as acts directly to the King.
7. Are you seeing growth in your life in this area? How could the gospel nourish this growth? I do see growth in this area, in compassion and awareness, what I do not see is direction. I want a task, a specific job to be helpful, to invest in ‘constantly’ to give drink, and clothes, and visits, but I cannot seem to discern what to do! The gospel nourishes this because it takes away any ‘superiority’ that had in the past made me pass by those in need because they had made their choices and I had made mine. But Christ died for us all, God loves us all! Why would I be put where I am if not to be used by Him for others?! It is a pleasure and a priviledge to serve! And I also fully acknowledge that many did not “choose” to be in their situation just as I did not “choose” to be in mine. The gospel can also help me to cast off residual fear of “what will people think?” Or “what if I don’t do it right?” Because it is by His hand and His ability that ministry is done and successful or not. Just as much as I cannot be my own savior I cannot be the savior of others either. (I fear this is muddled but….)
I pray that rather than a project or a ministry God will bring you a person. So often there are people at our work or next door who really just need a friend and a little help but we dont see them. Im praying for a person to come into your life that you can make all the difference in the world for!
Jill – I am reading through all this so rapidly this morning….but I so loved both Dee and Cyndi’s sweet responses to your “where to start? and what to do?” ponderings. Your heart is tender and seeking to follow Him in this…..I’m so sure that He will bring you where you need to be and open your eyes to the needs He would have you to have a share in caring for. I’m even wondering about other military families and what needs there might be there? In our family, we’ve found the “needs” to be at the racetrack…..and at the jail/prison…..the racing world has been our workplace and the jail/prison ministry was born out of a very horrible family tragedy. Now my local church body is bonding together and ministering at a local rescue mission, so my path and priorities are changing a bit…..it’s so lovely how He leads us along. I’ll be praying in a more focused way for your heart’s desire to serve where HE would have you serve! 🙂 Thank you for that tender entry, Jill.
Thank you, ladies, I truly do appreciate your prayers!