Whether you are experiencing emotional abuse personally or not, this is relevant, for we are all capable of subtle forms of abuse, and, abuse is rampant, even by those who claim the name of Christ. The gospel can help us recognize our propensity toward it and repent of it. If it is a pattern in a spouse (as our focus these weeks has been on marriage) or one close to you, Scripture gives us wisdom in dealing with it. One of the first scriptural truths we must recognize is that emotional abuse is just as damaging, if not more, than physical abuse. God tells us that rash words can pierce just as much as physical sword thrusts. In marriage, the thrusts go particularly deep, for this is your covenant partner who promised to love you.
This week I will link you to a test that Leslie Vernick designed to help you know if you are in a poor marriage or in an abusive marriage. If you fill out the test, Leslie’s ministry will e-mail back your results. One thing that differentiates a poor marriage from an abusive one is a pattern. We are all capable of rash words, of demeaning one another — but a pattern is evidence of an abusive heart that will keep on producing bad fruit until there is genuine repentance. You will also watch a video from Leslie and her colleague, Chris Moles, discussing abuse. Not only will they help you identify abuse in yourself or another, but give you practical scriptural steps for dealing with it. I know there are active and silent victims of abuse on this blog. May we all pray they will be helped through His Word and His Spirit and that they will, as Leslie puts it, “find their voice and reclaim their hope.” There is hope for we have a God who sees and who cares, just as He saw and cared for the abused Hagar in the wilderness.
Before we begin, I want to share two brief stories of personal testimony. Another who teaches the same scriptural principles and has been of enormous help to me is Jan Silvious. First, it was Jan who helped me recognize my own sneaky form of emotional abuse.
RECOGNIZING EMOTIONAL ABUSE
When I lamented to Jan that my administrative assistants kept quitting, she said, simply, “Seems to be a pattern in your life, Dee.” That was a wake-up call to me, for my sinful heart had been continually blaming my administrative assistants. The tongue of the wise can bring healing. And I knew (partly from Jan’s book, Fool-Proofing your Life) that one characteristic of a fool, according to Proverbs, is that he or she will not listen to counsel, so I wanted to listen. Jan was the first to awaken me to my pattern of manipulation. And then it was sermons on idols of the heart that awakened me to the sin beneath the sin, in my case, control. I saw that I was an idolater. Instead of trusting God to be in control, I was trying to control people. That was the sin beneath the sin.
THE SIN BENEATH THE SIN
My repentance and faith to start turning control over to God has completely changed my relationships. He is turning my heart of stone into a heart of flesh — and that heart is now producing very different fruit. Though this is a daily walk of repentance, I can tell you, and so can those close to me, that my life is so different.
It is important to first look at our own hearts.
It is also vital to recognize abuse in those close to us and to know how to wisely respond.
RECOGNIZING THAT ABUSE DOESN’T HAVE TO BE PHYSICAL TO BE ABUSE
Jan is also the one young woman close to me that she was in an abusive relationship. She couldn’t see it at first because the abuse wasn’t physical, and often that has been the only kind of abuse the church recognized. But God her mightily, restored her, and now she is being used to rescue others. I know His long out-stretched arm is capable of rescuing you if you are, indeed, in an emotionally abusive relationship. He is the God who sees and who cares for the broken-hearted. His arm is not too short to rescue.
SECRET FACEBOOK PRAYER PAGE FOR THIS BLOG
Renee has graciously been managing a FACEBOOK SECRET PRAYER PAGE FOR “DEE’S BIBLE STUDY FRIENDS” and Diane has been helping. It is a great place for prayer, keeps it confidential, and helps us keep our focus on Bible study here. That is not to say you can’t ask for prayer here, but it does help to have many of you using this secret place instead.
Two ways to join:
If you have a “Facebook Friend” already in this prayer group, that friend can add you. (Please ask someone other than Dee.)
You can e-mail Renee and ask her to “Friend” you. This is her e-mail address written out so spammers can’t pick it up – but hopefully you can figure it out. She can also help you with questions:
Reneeo at brookings dot net
A big thank you to Renee and Diane!
Sunday Icebreaker
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Monday-Wednesday (Test and Bible Study)
2. Here is the link to Leslie’s test if you want to find out about your marriage: http://leslievernick.com/the-
Abuse counselors differentiate between being foolish and being a fool, between an incident of emotional abuse and a pattern of emotional abuse. We are all foolish and we all will have incidents where we are guilty of emotional abuse with unfair and unkind words. So what is it that makes a person a scriptural “fool” or an abuser? Scripture stresses the heart. A heart that is intent on hurting another will also manifest a pattern of abuse. It is the heart, Jesus said, the produces good or bad fruit.
In the video you will watch from Leslie and Chris at the end of the week, they stress the danger of just looking at outward behavior to determine abuse. Chris gives an example of a husband who left cabinet doors open — it so irritated his wife. Was that abuse? You wouldn’t think so — until you learn that he did it on purpose to hurt her. His heart was evil toward her.
3. Read Matthew 15:1-20, asking the Lord to help you really focus.
A. What behavior of the disciples did the Pharisees criticize in verse 2?
B. Explain, on the basis of Jesus answer to them in verses 3-6, how the Pharisees were trying to appear to be righteous, but in fact, had hearts far from God.
C. Examine your own heart to see if verse 8 describes you. If so, repent. You can pray here or silently.
D. What is the main point of Jesus’ teaching in verses 10-20?
Prepare your heart for more study with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5zkOfSJSn4
4. After listening to the above, how is your heart toward God? Toward the people in your daily life? (Our hearts are so deceitful, so ask God to search and to show you.)
Unlike God, we cannot see into the hearts of others. But Proverbs gives us some warning flags for recognizing a fool in our lives. We must recognize them so that we can wisely respond to them. One thing we have already seen is that fools can be religious, but Psalm 14:1 tells us that in their hearts, they say “there is no God.” Let’s consider some other red flags.
5. Read Proverbs 12:15-20
A. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 15.
If a person is always right, he has no need to listen to counsel from God or from others, and never needs to repent. It truly is a danger sign if a person never admits sin and never sincerely repents.
B. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 16.
A short fuse can also be evidence of a heart far from God. The reason a wise person can overlook an insult is because they can commit their case to God.
C. To what are rash words compared in verse 18? Explain.
D. Can you discern the heart behind the actions in verse 18 for both the fool and also the wise? Explain.
E. What heart motive do you see behind deceit in verse 20? What is the fool devising or planning? What is the wise person planning?
F. On the basis of what you have studied so far, contrast the heart of an abusive fool with a peace-loving wise person.
RESPONDING TO ABUSE
Once you recognize you are in an abusive relationship, you need to know how to respond. Obviously I can only give you starting tools — and I heartily recommend Leslie’s books and website for more information. I often think of the example of David and Saul. Saul was trying to kill David, but David did not immediately back up. It wasn’t until Saul demonstrated a pattern of abuse and would not listen to either David or his son Jonathan that David fled for his life. But even then, David’s heart was for Saul. He forgave him and honored him as king.
Leslie, in the video, gives the example of someone sitting across from you who is kicking you in the shins. Instead of immediately backing up, she says you should first: SPEAK UP. Then: STAND UP. And, as a last resort: BACK UP
What would that look like in a marriage? Here are just a few examples:
SPEAK UP: Speaking the truth in love, saying something like: “It hurts me when you call me names — it hurts me when you belittle me in front of the children — it hurts me when you demean me.”
STAND UP: Reinforce your words. Chris, in the video, suggests writing down the words that hurt you without any punctuation and showing them to the person and say again, simply, “These words you speak devalue and hurt me.” If he or she will not hear, then tell them you cannot live like this and will need to separate until they get help and bear the fruit of a heart change. (I know this is the frightening part to the abused — for they know it may lead to divorce. When my young friend was in her abusive marriage, Jan told her that drawing boundaries was healthy not only for her, but for her husband. It might bring him to his senses. If not, he might leave her because of disliking boundaries. She asked my friend to consider her two hardest possible paths and choose one: 1) Living with abuse, and allowing her future children to live with abuse 2) Losing this marriage, and possibly never re-marrying.
(She prayed and sought the Lord and chose to set boundaries, separating and asking him to go to a Christian counselor and bear fruit of repentance for six months before she returned to him. She stood up to him and then backed up from him when he continued to refuse boundaries and continued to abuse her. Today she is healthy, remarried, and mentoring others in this situation.)
BACK UP: Separate and ask your spouse to go to counseling with you (or alone). When the relationship is healthy again, bearing fruit of lasting change, you will return.
6. Comments on the above?
Thursday-Friday Video
7. Watch and share your notes and comments on this video: Click here to view the video
Saturday:
8. What is your take-a-way and why?
221 comments
Sunday Icebreaker
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? First the picture of iceberg, the sin under neath the sin was a great visual, to further help me in my understanding of ” the sin under neath the sin.” Secondly, before I was married to my current husband, my first husband was really abusive, he literally progressed in his abuse to wanting to kill me. So I know I come with a lot of baggage , and my current husband ( of 13 years Monday) is very patient, kind and loving to me. Literally loving me like Christ loves the Church. So honestly, I am curios to see if I am the abuser. Sometimes I can catch myself saying harsh things to him. It will be interesting after I take the test to get the result…
Roshanda–I am so sorry about the abuse you suffered. Thank you for sharing so vulnerably, praying for you today~
Adding your name to my prayer list today, Roshanda. I’m so glad you’re here with us and for your loving, patient husband. Peace to you as you do the test and think it through.
So much pain, Roshanda. Thankful for God giving you a good man. I also appreciate your desire to see your own heart. I know Jan Silvious says it is hard to live with a “fool,” or an abuser and not pick up some of those ways, so it is mature and godly of you to look at yourself.
5. Read Proverbs 12:15-20
A. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 15.
A fool thinks he is right and won’t listen to counsel. A wise person knows he is fallible and listens to counsel.
B. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 16.
A fool spouts off in anger but the wise doesn’t. They have no need to be angry at and punish someone who upset them because they can go to God with it and trust Him.
C. To what are rash words compared in verse 18? Explain.
Like a sword thrusting in someone.
D. Can you discern the heart behind the actions in verse 18 for both the fool and also the wise? Explain.
The heart of the fool is trying to hurt someone, punish them, or get them back with his words. The wise is trying to benefit someone and lift them up with his words. The fool responds out of self concern only caring about himself, but the wise responds with sacrificial love.
E. What heart motive do you see behind deceit in verse 20? What is the fool devising or planning? What is the wise person planning?
The heart motive behind the deceit is that the fool thinks the person they are directing their evil to will ‘learn their lesson’ then succumb to the fool and do what he wants. He is deceived thinking if he gets what he wants from those around him then he will have peace and comfort. When in actuality his troubles with others will grow and fester and his anger will be like cancer and eat him alive. The wise person is the opposite putting aside self. They confront others in love for their benefit not for their own comfort or gain, and they can do so because they trust in and are confident in God.
F. On the basis of what you have studied so far, contrast the heart of an abusive fool with a peace-loving wise person.
The heart of a fool strives in his flesh for retribution and desires to stir up. His fruit is the opposite of the fruit of the spirit. He desires trouble over peace, vengeance over longsuffering, harshness over gentleness, anger over temperance, etc.. A wise person desires peace because they know and desire God and God desires peace rather than enmity between men like in the garden before the fall.
Rebecca — this thoughtful consistent diligent time in the Word, despite your crazy life, is why you are a woman of wisdom and strength.
-just had a thought. This reminds me of the older brother (the fool) and the Father (the wise).
C. To what are rash words compared in verse 18? Explain.
Harsh words are piercing like a knife. Boy do I know that well after this last week. it really hurts inside when people say mean hurtful things to you. When Sarah said, “I’m going to move and not tell you where I am.” It nearly killed me. I cried. It pierced my heart.
oh Laura–keeping you on my heart today–prayers for you, your husband, Sarah’s heart…so sorry
Praying for you today, Laura. I have 4 short commutes back and forth to my pt. time job…..and I usually use them for praying. You have been on the top of my list this morning. Peace and healing. And prayers for Sarah too.
Laura, hash words from your family hurt the very worst. I’m praying for you too ….so sorry.
Father, I ask for Your healing touch for Laura’s heart wounds.
In Jesus Name I plead.
Thank you everyone for the prayers…I appreciate them. I know God is in charge here and it is time for me to listen and do the hard stuff. She needs to be very uncomfortable right now.
5. A. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 15.
A fool thinks he is right; a wise person listens to advice. The fool sees from his own narrow perspective—and can only see his own way as “right”. UGH. I can often be this “fool”. The wise one is teachable—seeks and listens to wise advice. I do appreciate wise advice…unless I stubbornly have my mind made up–and then I can fall into playing the fool… ;0
B. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 16.
The fool shows his frustrations; the wise knows how to ignore an insult. The fool lacks self control—he is offended easily, emotions are out of control. The wise one knows how to filter an insult through God’s Word—using discernment to glean what truth may be hidden in the words, but also recognizes attacks that are purely meant to hurt, tear down. The wise one runs to God to gain insight, comfort, healing.
C. To what are rash words compared in verse 18? Explain.
Rash words are like sword thrusts. It’s amazing how painful, and unforgettable, words can be. Harsh words are pointed—they take a direct aim at our most tender, vulnerable places—and leave scars.
D. Can you discern the heart behind the actions in verse 18 for both the fool and also the wise? Explain.
The fool’s goal is to hurt, to cause pain, to cut the other person down so they feel bigger themselves. The wise one desires to bring peace, unity. She speaks careful words that bring healing—truth spoken in love.
E. What heart motive do you see behind deceit in verse 20? What is the fool devising or planning? What is the wise person planning?
The heart of the fool is on himself—his own superiority; and he devises evil plans. The heart of the wise is on the Lord, and others. He sets about to bring peace and reaps joy.
F. On the basis of what you have studied so far, contrast the heart of an abusive fool with a peace-loving wise person.
The fool wants to make himself feel superior by cutting others down. He chooses words and plans that are hurtful to others. The fool is willing to lie and create evil schemes to get his way.
The wise has his eyes set on truth and God’s judgment. The wise person is careful not to use words as weapons, but to bring healing, refinement, encouragement—truth in love.
5A. Fools are not teachable. They are “set in their own way”. The wise ARE teachable. Not wishy washy, but thoughtful and respectful of what others’ have to say…..really listening, and being willing to discern “a better way” that the Lord may be teaching them through others.
5B. Fools regularly “fly off the handle”. When others disagree with their way of thinking they immediately feel insulted and even persecuted – thus, anger! The truly wise person is actively being molded into the likeness of Jesus – who, “when he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges rightly.” 1 Peter 2:23. 1 Corinthians 4:12 also says “when reviled, we bless.”
5C. Rash words are like sword thrusts – sword thrusts are most often intending to kill – and that’s what harsh words can do : Kill piece after piece of our souls. In time, those scars can have little feeling at all – like dead zones. Just as physical scars have very little feeling.
5D. The fool reminds me of the evil one – he comes to steal and kill and destroy. Ugh. The wise, on the other hand….has a deep desire for HEALING in the lives of others. “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” Romans 10:15. The wise knows that true healing never comes from ourselves…..but we CAN be vessels of healing that Christ flows through!! Indeed, that is God’s plan!! Wow.
Jackie
Such good insight in 5c. And I always appreciate how you reinforce your words with additional scriptures such as you did again in b and d. Using those well chosen verses really add depth and meaning.
Jackie, 5C reminds me of what a counselor explained when my first husband and I were in marital counseling…with each hurtful word, action, etc. a piece of the recipient’s heart will die, the counselor compared it to lights…with each hurt a light would go out. Eventually with enough continual hurt(s), the love in the heart would die…the light would be all gone. “Dead zone” is a good descriptor for this.
Nanci – that is a GREAT visual…..”the lights going out” is even more poignant than the visual of scars…….
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
The pictures of the sword-wielding man and the iceberg are excellent visuals. When I go at someone with my tongue, in criticism, angry words, words meant to cut down the other, I am taking that stance of the man brandishing his sword. A wise, older woman told me once that when we choose to let loose with our tongues, it’s like saying, “I will be God” (in this situation). Likewise, when I am the recipient of harsh, critical words, I feel like I need to defend myself; not necessarily verbally, but often by withdrawing inward like a turtle in a shell. The iceberg…the part of the ice you can see above the water is so small compared to what lurks underneath, and that’s a great visual for what I can consider “small” sins, when underneath lurks a huge problem with my heart, or an idol.
Roshanda, could you look for me on Dee Brestin’s FB page (under Friends) and ask to friend me. My name is Diane Trail. Once I am your friend it is simple to add you to our secret FB page. I did a search under your name but there are many with the same name as you and I didn’t know which one was you.
Joyce and Laura, you two are having such rough times with your daughters. Oh, my! So hard! Praying for you both and for your girls.
Amen to Susan’s words to you, Joyce.
We all need to remember this, especially when we are being abused (in any way) and feel terrible about ourselves.
Thank you Diane.
D. Can you discern the heart behind the actions in verse 18 for both the fool and also the wise? Explain.
I believe that the heart of a fool is hardened and the heart of a wise person is more moldable and willing to learn. The fool is stubborn to learning; they think they know it all. But, it could also be that the fool is hurting inside and is lashing out because they are asking for help.
E. What heart motive do you see behind deceit in verse 20? What is the fool devising or planning? What is the wise person planning?
hmmmm, finding the questions challenging this morning. For the fool, the heart motive might be for personal gain I suppose; misleading another so you “look good,” or aren’t to blame in a situation. Those who have genuine joy in their hearts are not trying to harm others to personally gain whatsoever. I tell my children (when they will talk to me) that their lives would be so much more calm and pleasant if they would live according to how Jesus wants them to live. Calm, not stirring up issues, etc.
5. A. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 15.
The fool thinks s/he “knows,” is the authority, where as the wise person sees the benefit in seeking advice, understanding that s/he does not know it all and others can often provide beneficial information.
B. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 16.
The fool is easily annoyed, s/he has little patience and views offenses (intentional or unintentional) as a personal affront. The wise person is graceful and able to overlook offenses; s/he knows that s/he doesn’t know what is in the heart of another, what circumstances and experiences may have occurred, and gives “latitude” (grace) rather than judgment.
C. To what are rash words compared in verse 18? Explain.
“Rash words” are compared to a “piercing sword” in v. 18. Hurtful words wound and scar…once a word has been spoken it cannot be taken back…it is critical that we are careful in what we say and understand the debilitating impact of hurtful, derogatory words.
D. Can you discern the heart behind the actions in verse 18 for both the fool and also the wise? Explain.
I discern the heart of the wise as loving and kind, mindful of others, with the goal to “build up” rather than “knock down” or destroy. The heart of the fool is selfish, self-serving; the fool appears to have an attitude of “look out for #1…#1 being “self/ego,” a mentality of “knocking others down” to build him/herself up.
E. What heart motive do you see behind deceit in verse 20? What is the fool devising or planning? What is the wise person planning?
The heart motive I think I see behind “deceit” in v. 20 has a base of fear. The fool is fearful that s/he is “not enough” and plots evil in a variety of different ways and for differing reasons…e.g., to make another look bad, which s/he hopes will make him/herself look better; as a means of trying to cover-up faults; an effort to propel one’s importance.
The wise is planting seeds of peace wherever possible, providing a foundation for joy.
F. On the basis of what you have studied so far, contrast the heart of an abusive fool with a peace-loving wise person.
The heart of an abusive fool is selfish and fearful…the heart of the peace-loving wise person is graceful, loving, and kind. The fool is self-focused…everything is about him/her and how it affects them. The peace-loving person sees (or at least has the realization of) the “bigger” picture and is graceful in how they view others and others’ actions.
6. Comments on the above?
Wise advice! Dee’s young friend is the wise one who listened to counsel and had to do something VERY courageous. She trusted God and spoke up, stood up and then backed up. She had to face abandonment..She had to ignore the pleading of her idol of comfort to stay.
I hope I am not taking this out of context too bad but Proverbs 5:3 just came to mind and reminds me of our idols: “For the lips of the adulterous woman drip honey, and her speech is smoother than oil”. I think when we stay in an abusive relationship there is some idol we are in bed with and it is scary because the deception or sweet dripping honey off the lips of an idol will tell us we can’t trust God..we can’t believe He loves us and will walk with us every step of the way. We can’t live without our abusers support financially. Our comfort idol screams out-NO! You can’t leave, where would you live, what would you do? That is the point we must ask ourselves, who am I placing my confidence in? If it is obvious the abuser isn’t turning after you have stood up and spoke up, then the backing up must happen. I am thinking as dark as that valley can be to even contemplate, remember Psalm 18..trust Him, press into Him. He is fiercely in love with you and the abuse grieves him even more than you. He will come and rescue you-He is the great redeemer! He may not take away the pain and you may have some very rough ground to walk but He is with you. He will be your comfort. I have seen God move in amazing ways in women and men’s lives in provision too after they leave an abusive situation.
Rebecca – I think your words here are so wise. You have nailed the heart of the issue: do we trust God or not? That said, we need to extend so much GRACE to one another over this heart rending place where many find themselves. Even Leslie Vernick would say that a woman in an emotionally abusive marriage needs to take some time to build up her core and ascertain whether she should stay well or leave well in terms of her marriage. The body of Christ bears a great deal of responsibility here I truly believe. We need to be so aware of those in our midst. If God is calling a woman to trust Him and separate for a time from her husband because of emotional abuse, I wonder……will that woman find support in her local body? Will others step up to the plate and come alongside her emotionally and spiritually? Will others help with her very tangible financial needs? Oh, it gets so complex…….BUT……you are right……staying in an abusive relationship, unwilling to stand strong and instigate change is living out of fear of the unknown. Not a place God would have us stuck.
Jackie-this is all SO GOOD. Jesus is here through us ministering to women who are in this situation and I am sure the church is stepping up to help in some cases and perhaps more so now a days than in the past but I agree that judgment usually is rendered upon a woman and her decision to leave rather than encouragement and help!
That said I have to apologize for I did sound uncaring for leaving this piece out however I am trying to keep my posts simple and short and didn’t go into that thoughtful part so I am SO GLAD you did. :)) You are so right that it is a heart rending place to be and usually the core of an abused woman is beaten down already and with some it might have even been before she entered into the abusive relationship. I only know how hard it is to be ripped from the arms of my comfort idol in regard to comfort from stress. I can’t imagine how hard it is when you are beaten down from emotional or physical abuse from someone who you are completely naked and vulnerable with who is supposed to love and build you up.
3. Read Matthew 15:1-20, asking the Lord to help you really focus.
A. What behavior of the disciples did the Pharisees criticize in verse 2?
The Pharisees criticized Jesus’ disciples for breaking the tradition of the elders because they didn’t wash their hands before eating. What struck me first, because there’s a little map in my Bible, is that the Pharisees came all that way from Jerusalem to Gennesaret just to ask this question! I can only imagine their conversation along the way.
B. Explain, on the basis of Jesus answer to them in verses 3-6, how the Pharisees were trying to appear to be righteous, but in fact, had hearts far from God.
Immediately, Jesus puts God’s commands in their proper place – as the final authority, even over traditions. The Pharisees allowed men to tell their parents that money that could be used to help their parents was instead going to be given as a gift to God. Jesus brings up two commands; one about honoring your parents and the other about cursing your parents. He says the Pharisees nullify both of these commands for the sake of their traditions. The fact is, God doesn’t “need” our money; He does not want us to deprive our own parents to give money to Him. I believe the Pharisees just saw this as an “out” from supporting needy parents; they really weren’t showing devotion to God. Showing devotion and love for God would be to help your parents.
C. Examine your own heart to see if verse 8 describes you. If so, repent. You can pray here or silently.
Yes, verse 8 can be true of me. I know it is when I talk about Jesus and my words sound kind of hollow. Because I know that deep in my heart I love the things of this world and get caught up in living for them. Do I break the commands of God for the sake of my idols (substituting idols for traditions)?
Lord, I know You could say of me, “This Susan, she honors me with her lips, but her heart is far from me.” I get so caught up in my agenda, my comforts, my desires, in other words, doing my own thing. My heart is so prone to wander and to leave You. I see this too, in how I appear to be listening to someone, but in my mind, my thoughts are elsewhere. My heart can be far away from the person on the other end of the phone or right next to me. I am not honoring them as You would. I am sure, Jesus, that when someone came to talk with You that You gave them Your full attention; Your heart was with them. I can be so selfish and self-centered and take others for granted. What if that were the last time I was ever to be able to listen to that person? Please forgive me, Lord.
C. What is the main point of Jesus’ teaching in verses 10-20?
Jesus and the Pharisees could have gone on all day about traditions/rules versus God’s commands. He cut right to the heart of the matter by saying that it is the heart that matters. Who we are and what we do comes from our hearts. There is no rule that we break, as in failing to wash our hands before eating, that makes us unclean. The unclean-ness comes from what is in our heart. What is in the heart spills out of the mouth or in other actions, such as adultery, murder, or stealing. When my heart is far from God, the door is wide open for other things to crowd my heart. Things like bitterness and resentment; my heart is like a pot, cooking and boiling those things until they boil over and come out in my words or actions.
Susan, your C. is so raw and emotional…and I could of sworn you were talking about me. We are human and our minds wonder and we are not perfect.. you being so criticle of yourself hurt me….because I admire your love for Jesus so much! He loves us despite our failures!
5 people watching/listening to Leslie’s video now 🙂
How did you know that?
was written on upper right of screen (first said 4, and then when it started to play for me, it moved up to 5). But I got a phone call and had to focus all my attention on work shortly after it started!
oh….now I see the number on the top right……couldn’t see it on full screen. 9 people for awhile…..interesting!
There were 7 watching Leslie’s video as I was finishing just now. I didn’t see the number until the end.
3. Read Matthew 15:1-20, asking the Lord to help you really focus.
A. What behavior of the disciples did the Pharisees criticize in verse 2?
Eating bread without washing their hands. More specifically “breaking tradition of the elders.” There concern was not with commandments of God but with tradition of the elders.
B. Explain, on the basis of Jesus answer to them in verses 3-6, how the Pharisees were trying to appear to be righteous, but in fact, had hearts far from God. They had hearts that wanted to please man. An approval idol. That if they could be “good” they would be righteous and untouchable. However they defined good and right behavior by tradition and not by God’s word. So much so that they were “teaching as doctrine the precepts of man.” Taking what they thought people should do to look good and making it into a doctrine presumed from God.
C. Examine your own heart to see if verse 8 describes you. If so, repent. You can pray here or silently. “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far away from me.” I am afraid that my lips do not even honor him a lot of time. My reactions still show how hard my heart is. ='( the things that come out of the mouth overflow from the heart. O God, help me. My heart is hard and deep with sin. Shine your light in me that I may be refined and brought close to You. May the Holy Spirit press down on me to stop and change my heart. May I realize and seek your beauty to be changed by You.
D. What is the main point of Jesus’ teaching in verses 10-20? That our heart is what matters, not traditions such as washing our hands ceremonially. Our heart is the important thing. Therefore I must repent and continually ask Him to dwell deeper to change and expel the sin within.
We were able to sign a lease on a lovely house in a quiet neighborhood. I am overwhelmed with the abundance of this answer to prayer. Won’t be able to move in for another week but am very grateful. Thank you for all your prayers!
Great to hear this, Jill! Happy for you 🙂
Praise the Lord, Jill, for the lease. I’m happy for you.
Awesome news Jill! Praise God! Will still be praying!
Jill, this is great news…now we’ll wait and see what the Lord has in store for you in the way of some “heart” friends…:)
Wonderful .
Thank you dear Lord — we ask for a kindred spirit sister in Christ for Jill.
In Jesus Name
Oh Jill…I’ve been praying along with the others for God to provide housing for you and your family! What a great answer to prayer, and still praying for friendships for you, too!
I have not had much alone time in our transition state to answer questions but I have been reading comments and pray for each of you as you share your struggles. My heart is burdened and I lift each of you up in prayer.
5. Read Proverbs 12:15-20
A. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 15.
If a person is always right, he has no need to listen to counsel from God or from others, and never needs to repent. It truly is a danger sign if a person never admits sin and never sincerely repents.
The fool just goes his/her own way, never questioning whether he/she is wrong (unthinkable!) He is so sure he/she is right that others’ opinions or advice is never sought.
B. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 16.
Prudent people exude a quiet confidence which prevents them from responding in a rash fashion. Ironically it is the insecure fool that gives a hair-trigger response when insulted or annoyed. The fool tries to act confident, but it is all an act! Out of a fool’s mouth pour sharp, caustic remarks meant to put others in “their place”!
A short fuse can also be evidence of a heart far from God. The reason a wise person can overlook an insult is because they can commit their case to God.
Yes, this is true. In my better moments, I can say “God, what so-and-so said is grossly untrue, you and I know it, and that is good enough for me.”
C. To what are rash words compared in verse 18? Explain.
Swords. When we are the object of the rash words, we feel the cuts almost as painfully as if we have been “slashed.”
D. Can you discern the heart behind the actions in verse 18 for both the fool and also the wise? Explain.
The heart of the fool is filled with insecurity, and therefore he/she lashes out to defend himself, trying to build himself up by tearing others down. The heart of the wise may consider that the insult comes from someone who is hurting. Instead of feeling personally hurt by the insult and licking his own wounds, the wise person pours verbal salve upon the situation.
E. What heart motive do you see behind deceit in verse 20? What is the fool devising or planning? What is the wise person planning?
I think the heart behind deceit is self-centeredness. The purpose of deceit is to gain something for yourself at the expense of someone else. In order to promote peace (as the wise person does), one has to get out of self-centeredness and focus on the benefits for others instead.
Deanna–so good to have you back! Like your insight on “D”
Deanna……this is SO good. I love the words ‘verbal salve’…..and can physically feel the relief that it brings when someone wise enters a volatile situation and speaks peace. Thank you for that good visual.
Love that too Deanna!
Finished the video with Chris and Leslie this afternoon. Really good! I confess that I expected to watch it ‘just for the information that could help others’ and I did find a lot of that. I’ll be sharing the link with my husband who does a lot of counseling with men in particular who have many issues in their families. (He is a professional counselor and teaches counseling courses, but I’m mostly thinking of all the guys he goes fishing with, because they are friends, but soon the walls come down and he gets pretty involved in helping them with marriage and parenting issues. I only know what is not confidential, but even at that….I can see that Chris and Leslie and their materials could so helpful.) Yet, it did also hit me on a personal level. I can see times in my life when I wish that prior to some bad, reactive behaviors, I had heard this seminar and had known how I could intervene on myself or stop a situation from escalating by how I chose to respond to an abusive comment or action. Though this really fits a marriage relationship so well, I see application for parenting too. I didn’t take many notes, but was very impressed with the handle that both Chris and Leslie have on seeing, understanding and being able to counsel people who are abused or abusers. I’m grateful to know this as there is no shortage of people in our lives who experience being one or the other.
It’s interesting that you should comment on the application for parenting. I agree. There is lots of food for thought here. Does anyone know of books on parenting that address how to react when a child acts abusively to a parent, for example? I have seen some pretty verbally aggressive behaviours in children and it is hard to know how to react.
Wanda–I smiled reading this–I love picturing your counselor-husband out fishing with buddies and getting to their hearts-wow! Your respondse to the video is really making me want to get it to work so I can watch! Off to try again 😉
I really found Leslie’s video helpful. Once in a while it is encouraging to know that my daughter was not crazy to get out of the relationship with her ex. I hope my daughter listens to it. She has had a recent issue with her ex in which he was verbally abusive of her again and he did it right in front of the kids. He thinks he does nothing wrong and that she is to blame. It is hard to hear of his continuing behaviour and that he is teaching this by example to his boys. How long, O Lord, how long?
oh Diane–I am thankful the video was helpful to you–and hopefully it will be for Krista too. I hate hearing that she is still suffering through that and the kids too. I saw your post about ” books on parenting that address how to react when a child acts abusively to a parent”–I don’t know if you were thinking of young kids–but I think “The Heart of Anger” by Priolo might be worth looking at..I also like Foster & Cline’s Love & Logic books, (and of course I love all the Ted/Paul Tripp parenting books, but those are less specific to discipline issues.) PRAYING FOR ALL, DIANE~
6. Comments on the above?
ALL of this is so helpful, I like the “Speak Up, Stand Up, Back Up”. I have a dear older friend who suffered through 20 years of a very painful marriage until he left her. Thankfully she received excellent Christian counseling, and I am continually amazed at the strong, wise woman she is today.
I also thought this was really wise—under “stand up”—“writing down the words that hurt you without any punctuation and showing them to the person”. I have used written word as oppose to speaking, and I do find that helpful. But the “without punctuation” is so insightful! And on that note, I would add not to try that approach via email. I think email distorts everything.
I haven’t been able to get the video to work yet :(. Must be something on my end, so I’ll keep trying! I love Leslie’s blog, glean so much from her wisdom–always seems to be an application to my life.
I’m glad you brought that up…..about writing down hurtful words, without punctuation. I had to stop and think about that when I heard it, but it is a valuable distinction. The punctuation can certainly distort and cause someone to be on the defensive, where seeing the words alone, I think, would allow for more honest conversation.
4. After listening to the above, how is your heart toward God? Toward the people in your daily life? (Our hearts are so deceitful, so ask God to search and to show you.) My heart yearns for Him. To spend time with Him, at His feet, listening, dwelling on His beauty. This move has thrown my life for a loop. I have allowed myself to be distracted and not breath with Him. This week I have had time back to spend with Him and it’s like my head is raising out of the miry depth. He is good. Turning my heart toward Him in turn turns my heart towards others and desiring to be a blessing toward them. Instead of grumpy and selfishly retreating in my mind to a “safe place.”
E. What heart motive do you see behind deceit in verse 20? What is the fool devising or planning? What is the wise person planning?
I’ve been thinking about this question for a day now! I’m not sure how you get a heart motive out of just one sentence….having trouble with these questions!
‘Deceit is in the hearts of those who plot evil, but those who promote peace have joy.” (Proverbs 12:20 NIV)
“Evil scheming distorts the schemer; peace-planning brings joy to the planner.” (Proverbs 12:20 MSG)
Maybe be this evil is brought about because of selfishness? The person is trying to mislead so he/she can receive a personal gain that others don’t? I don’t truly know a persons’ heart unless I know the person pretty well, so I can’t say why someone would plot to commit evil on another. What will they gain from doing this? Maybe I am overthinking this question , I don’t know. I tend to think people commit evil deeds because they are bored in their lives and want to liven things up. Who has time to plot out evil against someone else?! If you are involved in work and relationships, you are a busy person! No time for plotting about others! My grandma uses to say “idle hands are the devils work.” Love that phrase.
The wise person is planning peace. Even still, being a wise person means you are probably minding your own business and not “stirring up the pot!” Who has the time?!
I love your thoughts about being so busy with work and relationships that you aren’t looking to stir the pot with evil. And do agree that we can’t know a person’s heart….especially not if we don’t know them very well. I think the proverbs often give us general wisdom and counsel…..and I think you have taken that and looked into it well, Laura. I guess I saw deceit as the motive itself…but the question does ask what is behind the deceit…so I think I missed it also. The time on your post reads at 4:39am….that shows me what a wise person you are…to seek the Lord at such an early point in your day in this very busy season for you.
7. Comment on the video
Watching the video now..Just past the first half hour and have TONS of notes. 🙂
This stood out so far:
1. The lie of the abuser is that they should get what they want. Part of growing up and maturing is how do you handle it when you don’t get what you want? They feel entitled to punish the person for not getting what they want. He has a right to sex because her body is not her own, etc..Only her body belongs to him. But there is no room for his body to belong to her and for her to say not tonight. Every single woman in that day in 1 Corinthians knew their congical duty is to give sex to men. Paul was evening that imbalance. Wife you have staying power-power with, not power over. … Mutuality comes to everyone. The Gospel turned everything on it’s head.
2. Luke 6. Jesus talks about the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The overflow of the behavior is indicative of the heart. When we modify the behavior and not get to the issues of the heart it is like putting good looking yet rotten fruit on a tree. The behaviors are indications of what is happening inside.
3. The opposite virtue to pride is humility. The abuser admitting they are wrong and being willing to choose humility now than be humiliated later when his wife leaves. What Leslie looks for to see if someone is really on the road to change is humility..not crying over being hurt because his wife left him, but crying because he hurt her.
Really good notes, Rebecca. All of these things stood out to me too. Such good insight.
6. Comments on the above?
All steps (i.e., speak up, stand up, back up) are difficult steps to take, but well worth it. My first marriage was an emotionally destructive relationship…I was pelted with hurtful words and actions, disinterest, deceit; we attended counseling three different times in the 10 year relationship. I have said before, I view the end of that marriage as a blessing; had that marriage not ended, I would not be enjoying the emotionally uplifting relationship with my husband of 14+ years…my daughters would have not witnessed the loving, kind, respectful relationship they witnessed…they would not have the “family” relationship “our family” provided that they now hold and value… I reiterate…the steps are difficult and require calm, strength, and fortitude, but they will either benefit the marriage or benefit the individual.
5. Read Proverbs 12:15-20.
A. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 15.
The fool listens only to his own heart and mind. The wise person listens to counsel. The counsel comes from humans but the assumption is that the wisest counsel comes from listening to God’s counsel through His word and to counsel from those grounded in God’s word, for God is true wisdom. In a sense the fool becomes his own “god” because he assumes that he alone knows what is right and good and judges those around him accordingly putting himself on a pedestal.
B. Contrast the fool and the wise person in verse 16.
The thing that jumps out to me is patience. The fool just reacts and expects others to temper his reactions by being tolerant or, worse, joining with him in his wiseless anger. But the wise man waits…ignores the insult because he is confident in his identity. The insult does not change him or his life (even though it certainly can feel like it, especially when coming from a loved one) But it is obvious from scripture that there is a time to show wrath but only when the Lord leads. Repeated insult would end up changing you and your life and so wise-action is needed.
C. To what are rash words compared in verse 18? Explain.
Piercing swords. Words do hurt. Even when we are confident of God’s love we still must process the hurt. Also, sword pierces cannot be “taken back.” Even when someone apologizes and tries to make it right the wound still needs to heal.
D. Can you discern the heart behind the actions in verse 18 for both the fool and also the wise? Explain.
The fool is focussed on revenge. Striking to make someone hurt and pay for what they did, or to assure themselves of superiority. The wise, as Dee said, commits their case to God and in aligning their heart with Him they love others and say healing things because they have compassion.
E. What heart motive do you see behind deceit in verse 20? What is the fool devising or planning? What is the wise person planning? I think this goes back to what is in our heart overflows out of our mouth. The fool has deceit and selfishness in his heart and so out pours evil plotting to ensure he gets what he wants. The wise man however seeks God who gives peace and freedom and so in the wise man heart is joy which overflows into peaceful words and actions.
F. On the basis of what you have studied so far, contrast the heart of an abusive fool with a peace-loving wise person.
The heart of an abusive fool is focussed on himself and his own desires. The heart of a peace-loving wise person is focused on God and finds his identity there which then changes and motivates his actions.
Great video notes. I too liked the without punctuation.
4. After listening to the above, how is your heart toward God? Toward the people in your daily life?
Rushed. I really like the feelings Sara Groves identifies in her song, like waking up on the wrong side of the world, and getting up and being ready to invent the wheel today. Sometimes I feel like I’m juggling so many hats…trying to keep up with what each of my children are doing, helping my parents, making time for coffee with a good friend and listening to her heart, doing things my husband wants me to do, and all the other endless tasks. I worked last night and just felt out of sorts all night. Some times at work, I really feel like He is working through me and I’m relying on Him. Last night I didn’t sense His presence nor His power, at all. I did what I was supposed to do but my heart felt numb and cold.
I recently finished reading “Born Again” by Chuck Colson. I remembered what Dee said about there being more life inside the prison walls than outside, and his account of the time he served in prison mirrored that. What fellowship, times of prayer, the power of the Spirit he experienced in prison. I long for experiences like that, but life always seems to get in the way. I believe I tend to “short change” God…giving Him prayers “on the fly” or a few moments of Bible reading. I do forget to get back to the basic question, “Lord, how is it between us?”
Susan….your comments impress me. The life inside the prison does indicate an intensity of fellowship but of course, that came with the great price of incarceration and the crime/sin that led to it. It is a wonderful example of ‘beauty from ashes’ and yet, what I think is always the hardest part of discipleship is living in the day to day mundane. When I have been in times of great crises (critical life/death issues or severe emotional distress) it is usually easy to sense God’s nearness. I rely on it for every breath. But when life is daily, normal, routine…..it’s much harder for me to connect. (I read in a book once….’the trouble with life is that it’s so daily’……which really stuck with me). As an empty nester, with a low stress, casual job….I truly admire all of you who work under a lot of stress and have jobs with big responsibilities and impact and for you, in addition to having children at home. Your honesty in even saying that it’s hard to feel God’s presence and feeling numb and cold, shows me your heart of flesh that thirsts for the living God and He will meet and refresh you again.
Wanda-sweet encourager you are-but it is meaty with the Word not just flowery words. Even though you are in a low stress job and an empty nester now you have been through many valleys with Him where you have at times sensed Him and then had times you felt cold as well. You are right about Susan..she thirsts for Him.
Wanda – I love this post! I too am an empty nester with a low stress, casual job! Even with some of the painful circumstances of life, it’s kind of a sweet spot place to be!
5E. The heart motive behind the deceit in v. 20: Couldn’t the heart motive be many different things? Other than the fact that, of course, sin is at the root of all deceit and evil. Sometimes deceit can be a pure manipulative power play for control and self “fulfillment”. Other times I really do believe the primary one deceived is the deceiver! That kind of self deception surely comes from a tremendous insecurity and anxiety about who we really are and how could we possibly be loved. Though we are drawn with compassion at times to the second kind of deceit, in reality, any deceit that devises evil for others of necessity has SELF and not God on the throne. “I will be God” seems to me to be the motive. Rebellion against the one true living God. Ah, but the wise man (woman!)…….here is a heart set on the living God…..great confidence in His love leads to a life of peace seeking and true joy. Isaiah 26:3 shows us the simplicity of this joy….”You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you.”
Such a good response regarding deception and playing God. Jackie……is this photo of you or your daughter? 🙂 So nice to see you…..and you look so young!
You’re so funny Wanda…..that’s gray hair you’re seeing – not ash blonde!! I’ll be 58 in a couple of weeks……ah well.
5F. Contrast the heart of an abusive fool with a peace-loving wise person: To me, the difference is a heart at rest (peace-loving person) vs. a heart with no rest (the abusive fool). From beginning to end, the Scriptures speak of God’s rest. The Promised Land for the Israelites was a place of rest. Jesus calls us to come to Him and find rest. Tucked up under His wing, we find a security (rest) like no other. Out of that rest comes a life of growing wisdom and peace. We’re never promised restful circumstances – rather, a rest so deep that it defies circumstances. In contrast, this is what God says about the wicked “But the wicked are like the tossing sea; for it cannot be quiet, and its waters toss up mire and dirt. ‘There is no rest’, says my God, ‘for the wicked.’ ” Isaiah 57:20&21. In Revelation 14: 11 those who have rejected God are described as “…..the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night……” Hebrews chapter 4 speaks much of the rest of God. A beautiful thing. The heart of the abusive fool surely does “toss up mire and dirt”, as Isaiah tells us (57:20). I think the heart of the abusive fool must surely feel exhausted and hopeless about life. The heart of the wise? Filled with hope and perserverance. Thank You Jesus!!!
” a rest so deep it defies circumstances”.…….what a beautiful description.
6. Comments on the above: Too many comments to begin to share!!! Here is my main comment : THANK YOU DEE!!!! I’ve shared enough in the past about how this topic hits close to home with me. Over this past summer I once more began to very diligently deal with my abusive marriage. There are signs of hope everywhere!! Time will tell whether or not the changes are real. But God is at work, that I do know. There is a peace in our home that wasn’t there even two months ago. My husband has taken what I shared with him (via a “list” of sorts) and, as we used to say, “owned it”! He is moving forward in a newly humble way. I’m excited……BUT…..my hope is in the Lord. Not my husband. God CAN – and DOES – change hearts. God does bring peace in the midst of the storm. And so we walk on. Again, thank you Dee, for taking on an uncomfortable topic.
Jackie, What a beautiful testimony of hope! I love how you said your hope is in the Lord and not in your husband and that God can and does change hearts!
🙂 thanks Rebecca!
“..my hope is in the Lord. Not my husband. God CAN – and DOES – change hearts. God does bring peace in the midst of the storm. And so we walk on.” This was my favorite part in the whole video of Chris and Leslie’s.
Thank you Jackie for that.
What a great testimony Jackie and how we pray that continues — your report does indeed give hope!
What a great testimony Jackie and how we pray that continues — your report does indeed give hope! Fun to see your pretty face in the gravatar too! 🙂
Dee….this week’s topic made it seem appropriate for me to “come out of the shadows”! 🙂
6. Comments on the above? This is good advice and a practical guideline. I always so appreciate when people go one step beyond sharing wisdom and share practical Biblical action steps! My thoughts are still on a loved one who has been in an emotionally abusive marriage for 40+ years. She believes the way to “deal” with this is to humbly stay. I have only spoken directly to her about this once but many of our conversations imply it but she demonstrates a mind that has been changed by the cycle of abuse. I am still praying about how to help her, if I can.
7. Watch and share your notes and comments on this video. This video blew me away. I have not finished it, but will today. I think the part that really effected me was their discussion on how to tell if something is abusive: actions to control and get what they selfishly want. This convicts me deeply for I can see how selfish I still am in some areas (all?!) of my life. =/ this is a different perspective, a harsher albeit more truthful perspective of my actions. Leslie’s admission of hurting her 2-year-old really affected me and how she connected to a possibility of continuing the abuse from her mother. As a parent I can really just sweep things under the rug as “a hard day” but there is something deeper. Usually I just think “yes, I need to work on that bad habit” but to think of a pattern as a form of abuse…..severe selfishness…..oh dear. God, search me, help me.
I am am also hoping the end of the video may provide some tips for how to help my loved one in the abusive marriage.
8. What is your take-a-way and why? That I am a fool. Many of the definitions apply to me – rash reactions, impatience, listening to my own heart. I have so long prayed for that moment of pause in situations before reaction comes, this pause would be to turn to Christ, to commit my case to God, to listen for the Holy Spirit before reaction or action. But these reactions also come from the overflow of my heart and I can see where past hurts have yet to heal and are affecting my reactions now, the lies taught…I will seek God’s beauty not just in the morning or in my free time but actively on the battle field of hurts and lies….this is so hard and I am not sure how to actually do it but I am grateful for open eyes.
7. Wow! I watched the video while working – I have several dogs boarding here this week….and, as Foxhunting season has begun and goes through our property, it has been QUITE exciting to see the visiting dogs’ reactions to the pack of hounds and tons of riders following as they pass, literally, through our yard!!! You get the idea…..slightly distracting! Nonetheless, I picked up enough to see that adding Chris to Leslie is like dynamite. SO good to see a man engaging with this topic. Out of everything that was said, one of the best takeaways for me was near the end. When answering a question, Leslie talked about how critical it is that we ALL put our marraiges in their proper place. We believe that keeping our marraiges together is the ultimate goal…….but the ultimate goal is to glorify Christ. In an abusive marriage, those two goals simply MAY NOT BE COMPATIBLE. If that is the case, I would think that the words of Jesus would apply here “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.” (Luke 14:26) This is a very hard saying. I don’t mean to say that Jesus is primarily speaking of abusive marraiges here…..but he clearly IS saying that it is possible for us to make an idol of our marraiges……or our children………do we REALLY realize what this means??? These sobering words of our Savior should really rattle our cages.
Just one more takeaway……this video was SO GOOD that I’m going to ask my husband to listen to it……at a quiet, peaceful time. In a series of “baby steps” that he has recently made, he asked me the other day for a suggestion as to “what comes next” – and I think this video is chock full of “next step” material!!
Bravo, again and again Dee….for making us aware of this incredible resource!
8. Well, here’s the world’s strangest obvservation ……..I couldn’t help but start to notice a few days ago that this week’s participation seemed a little “light”, number wise. Probably perfectly reasonable explanations – the start of the school year alone might explain. Nonetheless, I’m wondering…….as I just checked, the # of replies this week is at 196. Here are the past few week’s numbers…..467, 337, 423, 327…….hmm……is it a coincidence or is this topic still just a bit too painful to talk about……or perhaps we’re needing more time to just digest and think about what has been presented? Crazy, I know, but I find the numbers interesting……
Jackie, I love your beautiful new picture…I can really “see” you!
I think, Jackie, it is a very hard topic and hard for both those who are abusers and those who have been abused to come out of the shadows. But from the sales of Leslie’s book, we know how greatly she is ministering to so many. Jill — your testimony is humble and powerful. I too was struck by Leslie’s confession about breaking her son’s arm. That took courage. But God is at work her in our active and silent bloggers, and I am so thankful.
8. What is your take-a-way and why?
I hope I am taking away many things. The Matthew passage made me look at heart motives and think again about if what I say or do in the Lord’s name, really reflects my heart or my desire for others to see my piety. This will be a life long challenge. The Proverbs passage is penetrating. When I stopped to think about what a fool and a wise person look like, my mind is easily flooded with examples of people I know who emulate both ends of the spectrum. How admirable it is when someone speaks calmly and wisely. And I can see times that I am both. I regret words I’ve spoken in haste and that have been cutting……and sadly, it has happened in the not too distant past. Another life long challenge……but this passage is sticking with me as such a good measuring tool. The video by Leslie and Chris and the way you put this lesson together, Dee, made us able to look into this difficult topic in a healthy way. I didn’t think I would find myself in the scenarios…..but I can see pieces of me in what was described. I am just very grateful for knowing of this teaching by Chris and Leslie and the resource of Leslie’s book and website. As I said earlier, I would have benefited a lot from knowing this in my years of parenting young children……because during some hard times in those years, I know that our marriage sometimes fell prey to the weary and stressful days we both felt and we both gave in to abusive words with each other. I’m so thankful that our marriage is very peaceful now. But there are several in our lives who have tumultuous relationships and again, I’m glad to know of Leslie’s work. One thing that stood out to me that I didn’t mention earlier is that when Chris was talking about ‘information, transformation and reformation’….he said that we automatically look for people who will say….’oh, that’s all right. we all make mistakes’ etc. but how we need to find people who will challenge us to seeing the truth of our behavior. That one applies to so much.
Wanda,
This is so true! But those type of friends are hard to come by.
You too, Wanda…I kept meaning to comment on your new picture…so good to see your pretty face!
7. Watch and share your notes and comments on this video.
This video was wonderful…so much useful information.
*”we do what we do because we want what we want”…the question is, how does one handle not getting what one wants?…the reaction (answer to this question) is very revealing.
*the “root” determines the “fruit”
*in the patriarchal context of Paul’s day, Paul’s writing in 1 Corinthians is to balance the scale between men and women…it is actually freeing to women rather than restrictive or constricting. Often these types of biblical passages are misused for justification purposes.
*for heart change that creates different “fruit”:
-pride must go and humility must come…there must be understanding that one is responsible for hurting another.
-willingness versus willfulness
-an attitude of gratitude.
*what is healthy? mutuality…other-centeredness…mutual submission out of reverence to Jesus…not “top-down” leadership, but sacrificial servanthood.
*Selfishness is a vacuum that sucks the life out of a relationship.
*It is a mistake to evaluate a relationship based only on the other person…self-evaluation is needed as well…the only person you can change is yourself.
*cheerleader analogy…the male cheerleaders lift and throw the female cheerleaders in the air allowing them to do incredible twists and turns in the air that they are not able to do on land. It’s all about power under.
*freedom is important…freedom to be one’s self, freedom to challenge the other person, freedom to make one’s own choices, etc.
*unfortunately, gentleness and meekness are not qualities that are emphasized for men.
*wrong thinking:
-all or nothing thinking (double minded; black or white, no middle ground)
-desperation thinking leads to foolishness
-it’s “her” fault (in terms of a male abuser)
-she “deserves” it (in terms of a male abuser)
*for change to occur:
-must accept responsibility…accept ownership, eliminate “buts”
-need a process and people…information to learn about abuse, application of information
-transformation by the gospel
-reform…put off and put on
*seeds of change:
-clarity…aware of thinking error, aware that messed up
-confessing…realize can’t do by self, ask for the Lord’s and others’ help
-community…support and accountability
-consequences…reap what is sown
*stages of change:
1. heart change…humility, gratitude, willingness
2. change in habit…willing to hear feedback and self correct
*marriage is not an unconditional relationship…God calls us to unconditional love, but that does not mean staying in an abusive relationship.
I really like Leslie’s dog, Gracie…what a sweetie! She is so protective of Leslie…so cute! 🙂
As I listened throughout the video, I thought how much of the information I could relate to my first marriage. On one hand, it made me sad to think how passive I was for many years of my first marriage…walking on egg shells for years, allowing fear to paralyze me, internalizing blame, allowing hurtful words/actions, believing for years that whatever went wrong or his deceitful actions were my fault. Thankfully, the Lord worked in my mind and heart; He strengthened and calmed me to process through the separation and divorce, and continued to strengthen and comfort me as a single mother. When the time was right, the Lord blessed me with a healthy relationship…love, friendship, companionship, honesty, respect…thank You, Lord!
Nanci, I smile for you every time you give thanks for your husband. So sweet to know you have such a blessing! =)
6. Comments on the above?
I feel that these ideas from the video were very good — Leslie and Chris kept them simple. Speak up, Stand up, and as a last resort, Back up are three simple steps to remember when dealing with an abusive person (whether in marriage or otherwise). I do feel that these steps are best used early-on in the problem. After things get so bad that the abuse is becoming physical, it is probably too late to Speak up or Stand up. Then all one can do is Back up.
I thought it was a very good point that was brought up in the young friend’s counseling with Jan that she needed to consider the two worst scenarios. One was living with the abuse, and the other was living again as a single person. Coming from someone who has been married for 48 years, this may not carry much weight. But I think there are a lot of things worse than living as a single. I, obviously haven’t had to do it. However, I find it amazing the number of people who tend to act as though it is a fate worse than death. I have watched friends who have become either widowed or divorced, and they are absolutely desperate to get into the next relationship “post haste” — sometimes jumping into situations they should not have.
I watched the video in three sections — approximately 30 minutes a piece. I seem to be unable to absorb anything that long all in one chunk 🙂
Nanci‘s notes are wonderful! I couldn’t top that, and won’t try! I think the Clarity, Confession, Community, and Consequences were Leslie’s points, and Chris lifted up the points about change of heart and change of habit. Thankfully, I don’t feel that I am in an abusive marriage nor am I abusive to my husband. Our relatives have frequently made the comment that “you two spoil one another.” I take that to be a compliment — I don’t think they mean we are both rotten (ha!) Although I don’t see myself needing to use these ideas from the video in my marriage, I might find them useful in dealing with a couple of pushy friends (some in the church, believe it or not!) I think it is wonderful that Leslie and Chris have given themselves over to the call of God to minister to people who are in abusive relationships — it is very special work!
I actually felt a little sorry for Chris, and thought Gracie was a bit much. I can’t imagine having to sit in the same position for 90 minutes because of a defensive dog. The topic was tough enough without that added threat. 🙂
Funny that you should mention that about Chris and the dog, Deanna. I felt just the same. I think it would be very hard to be on camera, answering questions as well as what you had prepared and being careful all the while not to upset the dog. It made me wonder if Leslie’s dog is always in the session with her in case there is an issue with a client? In any event, I admired Chris for putting up with those restraints!
I too found the dog a distraction because I was worried about Chris. It would have been intimidating for Chris and I wondered about the person behind the camera as well.
Thanks to those who put up notes. I really found the session helpful and enjoyed Chris’ perspective. He added a depth that was helpful, but it would have been hard to take notes.
Take away:
Thanks, Dee, for taking on this difficult subject and for all who have so honestly contributed. Hugs to you brave souls! There is a great need for honest godly perspective on this. I am afraid that there is a lot of abuse out there that is denied or dismissed as minor when it is not. I know my eyes have really been opened in the last couple of years with what has happened to our daughter. I will continue praying for those who are silently following along this week who need to examine their lives in light of the new information and discussion here.
I was very impacted by the verse Proverbs 12:18. It almost took my breath away. The Lord put a book in my hands last week, that described something a couple of people over the years told me they had sensed in my life; a wall. And the book said that is often an effect of child abuse. I’ve also experienced some domestic abuse/violence. But I hadn’t really taken to heart the effects of verbal abuse, until I saw that verse. That was really helpful to me. And the insights so many of your wrote so well about the differences between a fool and a wise person. I really had to consider how to speak the truth in love. I was really helped by the part, OUR RESPONSE. And how people searched their own hearts. This really helped me to search my own heart. My responses have so often been sinful. And I want to change. I want to have the soft heart Dee has talked about. Everyone answered the questions so well. I just want to offer a couple of resources. The book “Love Letters from the Edge by Shelly Beach and Wanda Sanchez-Meditations for those struggling with Brokenness, Trauma, and the Pain of Life. Shelly Beach has been on Midday Connection on this topic. There are many, many good resources in the back of the book. I find this book to be very comforting. Also, there is a ministry called Focus Ministry (stands for finding our ultimate satisfaction in Christ). Has very excellent teaching about surviving domestic abuse. Led by Paula Silva, who has also been on Midday Connection. Focus has a web site, and also a Facebook page. Paula truly has a wonderful walk with the Lord. She can speak truth in a very wise way. Also, Christine Wyrzten (Daughters of Promise) was on Midday Connection and talked about “when you feel like a spiritual orphan”. Which helped me understand why I have felt the way I do. She recently came out with Customized Prayers Biblically Derived. When I have been really down, I have just prayed them. There are 36 prayers. She gave away a free download of these in an email a while back, but I think you can also get these from her ministry now in a printed booklet. I think the most amazing thing of Dee’s study this week, was the timeliness of it for me. I also have a very Godly elderly (older than me) friend, she and her husband go to my church, and they have really loved on me and have spoken a LOT of blessing to me. Last week I showed her the book the Lord put in my hands about child abuse, and this week I was able to show her all that the Lord showed me through Dee’s study this week. So we could rejoice at what the Lord is doing to help me. Thank You, Dee!
Thank you so much Dee for adding this difficult subject…You and Leslie’s book and the video are helping me alot. Bless you.
How does one come out of the shadows? I have been struggling with that, saying what I have been dealing with really is not that bad. Yet I feel really bad. I am grateful for the closeness to the Lord my struggles have brought me yet you do feel so isolated when you are not talking with anyone about the words that are spoken that keep wounding you. You just keep taking it and yet not without a cost. I do not process them with the Lord quick enough and know the bitterness lingers below the surface. The guilt of those feelings only adds to that. Wanting to find healing and have my marriage restored. I have the Lord! my husband does not. ( yet) Praying for him is so powerful, praise is as well. Praying for the Lords wisdom and thankful for coming across this blog. Idol Lies is what lead me here and I am thinking this is another answer to my many prayers. Shame can hold you down in the shadows,. From outside appearances my husband is a friendly guy yet I have seemed to bring out the worse in him. But to be honest isn’t that true for me too.I know I have things in me to change I have a library of books and years of journals and I know many tears bottled in heaven but apart from Him I can do nothing. Keeping my eyes on Jesus my rock of refuge and my hiding place. My strength and my shield. He loves me unconditionally. Amazing Grace!