WHAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THE DEMONS AND THE CHILDREN OF GOD
SINCE JAMES TELLS US
THAT EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE?
THE DEMONS HAVE NO LOVE FOR CHRIST,
NO DESIRE TO BE WITH HIM
BUT TRUE BELIEVERS FIND HIM ALTOGETHER LOVELY
Two weeks ago when we looked at Enjoying God, some of you were taken aback when George Mueller said: “The first great and primary business to which I ought to attend every day, is to have MY SOUL HAPPY IN THE LORD.”
Our own Diane put it so well:
I come from a solid Baptist tradition where TRUTH is extremely important and enjoying God was never mentioned. Too much emotion in worship or life was suspect. Restraint is admired. Yet I do sense that God longs for us to enjoy Him. What does this truly mean for my life? If I am in love with my Savior, it will show in my life in the same way that a person in love with another person or a pregnant mother “glows” due to her happiness.
Diane’s comment made me think of our own Beth, who because of her painful past in the orphanage, had trouble bonding to others. The Lord is healing her and it is most evident in how she has bonded to her children — she truly did glow all through her pregnancies. She was experiencing joy in her child.
And the Lord wants us to have joy in Him. That love relationship is how we are different from the demons. And when we are convinced of His love for us, we glow. Even when life is filled with trials, if we know we are loved, as our own Dawn said, “It keeps us sane.”
As you read this I am in Kentucky, and the spiritual warfare has been intense. Thank you for praying, for we have so needed it. Almost everything that could go wrong did, yet each time, I was able to remember God’s love and see Him overcome. He provided me with great tech help, we had tech problems here but David kept guiding us through by phone, I got lost trying to find the retreat, but was found, I was sick and lost my voice, but it wasn’t completely gone until this morning. Teasi Cannon (a new author) opened Friday night with the theme “The Battle is the Lord’s” and it is. Teasi’s mother who sat next to me, said, “I just go a word from the Lord.” Tsuami. I wasn’t even sure what she was talking about — but later I knew — He came in a mighty way, and the room was silent to hear Him all three sessions. I spoke on The Song of Songs and they understood. One woman said to me “Everything that was in my head has dropped to my heart.” God came to us because He loves us.
He loves us, He is for us, and we must not be overcome by the fiery darts and lies of the evil one that God does not love us and is not for us. He knows that when we back up from the Lord we will run to our idols. But let the beauty of the Lord overcome the evil one — for He is more precious than silver.
LET THIS SONG PREPARE YOU FOR THIS WEEK:
Sunday
1. What stands out to you and why?
Monday/Tuesday
This week’s message on The Love of the Church for Christ is a feast for your souls. We will take a little each day and eat slowly. It goes over what we studied last week, taking us deeper. Please don’t miss Friday — it is so rich!
PLEASE go to this link.
Then choose The Love of Christ 3 and DOWNLOAD it so it doesn’t skip. If you have trouble hearing, listen with earbuds or headphones. Listen to only the first 13 minutes — actually, until 12:55. Take notes.
2. Share your notes on these first 13 minutes. HE IS THE FAIREST OF TEN THOUSAND TO MY SOUL
3. Review Song of Songs 1:2-3 and 1:13: He is sweetness to her – and this is so key. This is when Reeves gets excited about the parallel with Psalm 4:7 – so read that. What parallel do you see?
4. How do you see that she loves him rather than his gifts?
5. What error do we lean toward in presenting the gospel as a formula? How might you do it differently?
6. Review Song of Songs 5:2-8
How is physical sleepiness is similar to spiritual sleepiness?
Wednesday: Listen from 12:55 t0 23:40 We Must Feast With Him Before We Suffer With Him
7. Share your notes.
8. She loves Him more than His gifts. She wants to be with Him. How do you see this in The Song of Songs?
9. How do you see suffering in The Song of Songs 3:7?
10. Sibbes says you will not suffer with Him if you have not feasted with Him. She will not truly love Him unless she is convinced He loves her. Are you convinced? Find a passage in the Song of Songs that helps you.
Thursday: Listen to 23:40 – 39:30 His Glory More Than His Gifts
11. What do the daughters of Jerusalem ask in Song of Songs 5:9 and how does she answer? Then how do they respond in 6:1. What does this tell you?
12. What does Reeves say we have lost in our Protestant heritage?
13. We tend to talk about the mechanics of how to get saved instead of the beauties of Christ. How might seeing this impact how you share with others? See if you can come up with a sentence or two that you might share.
Friday: Listen To 39:30 To The End. Aslan Is On The Move, Transforming His Bride.
14. Read Song of Songs 2:8-17 and find out what made them laugh so hard in the classroom. Reeves was kidding, and yet had a serious point. What was it?
15. HE QUOTES THIS FROM CROWN HIM WITH MANY CROWNS. WHAT WAS HIS POINT?
His reign shall know no end,
and round his pierced feet
fair flowers of paradise extend
their fragrance ever sweet.
15. READ SONG OF SONGS 6:10 AND COMMENT ON WHAT YOU LEARN FROM THIS AND REEVES.
16. Read Song of Songs 7:1-2 and comment on what you learn from this and Reeves.
17. Other comments from this section. (It is so rich!)
Saturday
18. What is your take-a-way and why?
226 comments
1. What stands out to you and why?
Dee I want to thank you for your faithfulness-your love for Him and for us..that you would be so faithful to post on this busy weekend when you aren’t feeling well. I am grateful and so appreciate you.
What stood out to me was: “But let the beauty of the Lord overcome the evil one — for He is more precious than silver.”
This statement is huge. It stood out to me because it encompasses the whole post! The opening lines just pierced my heart..so powerful. And Diane’s comment..oh my. I really believe the evil one has crept in and made us forget His beauty and to praise Him and speak boldly of His beauty and of enjoying Him. We have made truth an idol.
I am guilty of idolizing truth too- for many years and His desire that we enjoy Him seems almost like a new thought-but it shouldn’t be! Yet, I am grateful His hair is wet with Dew, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt-and I saw Him move here in our retreat-that Aslan is on the move. :)))))
I am grateful is hair is wet with dew.
Thank you, Rebecca.
1. What stands out to you and why?
“He loves us, He is for us, and we must not be overcome by the fiery darts and lies of the evil one that God does not love us and is not for us. He knows that when we back up from the Lord we will run to our idols. But let the beauty of the Lord overcome the evil one — for He is more precious than silver.”
I find myself if not returning to my idols, then longing for them again and again. When I catch myself doing it, I start focusing on the Lord, His attributes, blessings and grace. Or I sing a hymn. I make an effort to redirect my thoughts to Him instead of trying to sort out what I am dwelling on.
Lately I have found my thoughts turning to Him almost the instant that I start thinking about my idols or problems. I know that it is His Spirit in me. Deep calling to deep is what I think of when this happens. God is deep, the Holy Spirit is deep.
I am much more at peace and I have found my soul is happier.
Dawn,
This post is so good-so honest-“Lately I have found my thoughts turning to Him almost the instant that I start thinking about my idols or problems. I know that it is His Spirit in me. Deep calling to deep is what I think of when this happens. God is deep, the Holy Spirit is deep. I am much more at peace and I have found my soul is happier.”
oh Dawn–I agree, what a testament of His grace your post is–I love this “I am much more at peace and I have found my soul is happier” You have been through such struggle, you have remained faithful, and He has poured out the blessing of His peace
Deep calls to deep….great thought, Dawn. That phrase is in a song, too. Do you know it?
Dawn, I so appreciate your openness and honest sharing. You paint a clear picture of the reality that the battleground is in our minds. I like how you redirect your thoughts to Him instead of trying to sort out what I am dwelling on (that’s where I often get stuck – trying to sort out what I’m thinking on).
As I read this weeks lesson aloud on the way to Church, I too was struck with gratefulness of how Dee’s sacrificial obedience ministers to me. Last week as we talked about our weary laziness that can keep me from responding to His knock…and yet here is Dee, legitamantly tired, weak from a cold, but faithfully responding to His call for her.
i was also struck by the Lord’s sweet healing in Beth’s life.
And this-the difference between demons and believers, believers long to be with Him. I don’t know, but that filled my heart. I do long to be with Him, I cannot imagine not knowing His presence all day, all around us.
This is a favorite we sang this morning: Psalm 130-From the Depths of Woe it reminded me of where we are here
“….sore are our woes….” This is very descriptive And I relate to its meaning.
That was so beautiful, Elizabeth.
Oh, I like this, Elizabeth! (and this one definitely doesn’t remind me of “country!”)
What stands out to you and why?
Dee stands out. How wonderful that God moved in spite of (or is it because of) her weakness at the retreat. Where we are weak, then He is strong. God’s tsunami.
But for me, I need to remember this from Dee. I too have had fiery darts and lies that scream “God does not love you. He is not for you”.
And Rebecca’s and Dawn’s comments above are gems. I agree with Dawn who says,
Deep calls to deep. Redirecting our thoughts to the Lord, or as Dee has said, “replacing the idols” is key. “Let the beauty of the Lord overcome the evil one.” This verse comes to my mind and brings reassurance. God is guarding us in good times and hard times. I am awed that He stands outside ever knocking with His hair wet with dew.
“Everything that was in my head has dropped to my heart”
This is how I feel. I am so grateful for the understanding that Gd has revealed to me but I feel like a child just realizing truth in my heart for the first time these past couple of months!
Also, the phrase “more costly than gold” this has was ways struck me as a cost paid to follow God. His will and calling requires us to “pay” all we are and all we have (idols cast aside).
Dee, I, too, am thankful for your commitment to post regardless of circumstances and to open doors of understanding for The Lord to use to increase our faith. Thank you.
That so resonated with me as well Jill. It’s just beautiful that it’s in our heart..
Sweet sisters — you are so kind and encouraging. You are dear to me and I have been so grateful for your prayers!
I’m so thankful everything worked out for Good at the retreat Dee. Your doing God’s work and inspire so many! I love the picture of Seth and Beth during her first pregnancy…she does glow with love…thar’s how I want to glow with love for my Lord.
Hello,
I’m signing up for the Bible study.
Welcome Catherine.
Hi Catherine from Michigan…I’m Nanci from Wisconsin…we’re almost like “neighbors”…:) Please excuse my delayed welcome…glad that you’re here and will be joining us. I look forward to getting to know you better through studying together…welcome!
I first read this blog post on my cell phone this morning (the first time I checked was before it was up 😉 ). The first thing I perceive in the morning is different from what jumps out at me later in the day. What struck me right away this morning was the pic of the Lily in the Valley — and I’ve been thinking about them today. Lilies of the Valley look like such delicate, pretty little things. AND, it’s hard to get rid of them because of their root structure and their invasiveness (at least of the white ones; I’ve seen some lavender ones in my garden that don’t spread). I don’t know that I show take this analogy too far — but I do see that HE IS LOVELY and has been SO faithful in His pursuit of me. Unlike what can be a very thick mat of flowers (mostly leaves), I wouldn’t want to get rid of Him!
Later in the day, words are standing out to me: the reference to a couple weeks ago to George Mueller’s statement about being happy in the Lord, and the following:
The first sentence in encouraging & intriguing. The second one is kinda scary…takes my breath away. Through this study, I am unlearning, relearning, newly experiencing what it means to have joy in the Lord. While exciting in some ways, this new awareness is unnerving in others — not because I don’t trust Him. I WANT Him to have complete control. That feels good, refreshing, relaxing, but different.
AND, Dee, I wish we all could sit down with you and hear all about your weekend — the DETAILS 🙂 What a privilege to pray for you and see your FB post during the weekend. I hope you can get some rest and GET WELL SOON!
Dee, I am so glad that you came through your weekend in Kentucky so well despite all odds! I am feeling a bit of de javu — weren’t we praying hard the last time you led one of these retreats because you were about to lose your voice then?! God bless you, you are a trooper!
1. What stands out to you and why?
The song More Precious Than Silver. It is a song I have been familiar with in the past. In fact, it brought back the remembrance of a time approximately 15 years ago, when I was on my Walk to Emmaus (I believe Presbyterians have a comparable Great Banquet). Everyone in the sanctuary was singing More Precious Than Silver as we left our pews and processed up the aisle to the chancel where Holy Communion was awaiting us to be taken by intinction. It was a definite spiritual “mountain high” for me. In the last two years, the Emmaus Community decided to move the post-walk Gatherings to a location that is not geographically convenient for me, so I have not been attending Gatherings. When I started to sing the above song along with the video, I realized I was stumbling around on the words a little. It was like a red flag went up for me, alerting me that I may be inadvertently about to let something important slip away from me. Perhaps I need to make the extra effort and the long drive to get to Gatherings again.
I was at the retreat. 30 minutes after leaving the site when the retreat was over, I stopped to start reading one of Dee’s books. I am home now and reading still and found the blog!!! I am overcome with gratitude for finding the answers I needed this weekend. I almost left last night during the end of the session; I was so angry. I felt so confused with the idols I had been aware of for 25 plus years. I chose to stay giving God space to show up “whenever” he chose. It was a process, but I got my answer. And today’s answer is to press in and run to him when/ if my particular idol comes lurking again. I need much grace!!!! I cannot wait to get up in the morning.
Welcome Teresa — I’m so glad you are here — and that you waited on God too!
Welcome, Teresa! So glad you’ve joined us — and that God DID meet you at the retreat 🙂
Welcome Teresa! So glad you are here and glad you waited on God..Love to hear how he is meeting you! 🙂
Teresa–welcome! So neat for us to hear from one we prayed for at the retreat. So thankful for how the Lord used Dee, and that you have joined us!
4. How do you see that she loves him rather than his gifts?
Throughout the book, she doesn’t seem to talk about his gifts. Instead, she describes him — and continues to look for him even after she had been beaten, despite the risks.
5. What error do we lean toward in presenting the gospel as a formula? How might you do it differently?Probably several errors: the error that we seek Him for what we can get (heaven) or get out of (hell) rather than to know and enjoy HIM; the error that we can jump through the hoops as indicated by the formula and achieve the desired outcome — believing that we have to do something in a prescribed way to be accepted. I also think this type of formula-living may lead to sorrow later: i.e., if something goes wrong, when life is painful, “I must be doing some of this Christian stuff wrong.”
Welcome Teresa…so glad you found us!
Welcome Teresa! Keep on keepin’ on. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2. Share your notes on these first 13 minutes.
OH MY. I was blown away. OK, confession—I went on past minute 13 and the next section is probably the best teaching I have heard yet. But here are my notes up to min 13.Beginning in chapter 1 she says ‘let him kiss me…your love is better than wine’, her desire for Him is evident. She loves Him, not his salvation, not what she can get from him—but her love is for Him. This is critical in Christian living and in evangelism. We set ourselves up when we say-Jesus gives us salvation, and then later learn we are to live a holy life. But if we are first told-here is Jesus, we fall in love with Him rather than His benefits. She says ‘My beloved had turned, had gone.’ She is sleepy, foggy-not fully asleep. He knocks. Rev. 3:20-people who are spiritually sleepy, the church of Laodicea. He knocks to be with His bride. He wins and protects His bride from the dragon, and brings His bride to the wedding party. Sibbes-men disposed to be asleep spiritually, desire to be alone-shut out light. In sleep fantasy rules, there is false good, forgetting true danger. The most precious thing men carry about them is lost in sleep.
She is sleepy and He has been knocking for a long time-wet with dew, with the night rain. She can’t be bothered to get up, she doesn’t really desire Him, her desire has waned, He can knock and she doesn’t care. Why did her hands drip with myrrh? She touches what He has touched, and smells Him. He has been knocking so long, she got what she wanted—He is gone.
Elizatbeth, My reaction, too!!
My notes:
SoS is also about love of church for Christ
She has desire for him evident first verse of book.
She loves him; not that she loves his salvation or what she can get from him, her love is for him; critical in Christian living and evangelism
Come and know Jesus –have Jesus, saved to know Jesus, long to please the one you love, his ways increasingly delightful, love him rather than his benefit
13:1 (?) sweet smell to her
5: 2-8 sleepy, not fully asleep, rev 3:20, church in Laodicea, church who is spiritually sleepy, story of bridegroom addressing bride, similarity to Rev, wins and protects his bride and brings his bride to wedding ceremony
What happens? Sibbes theology of sleepiness, thinking on 2 levels, spiritual similar to our: men disposed to be asleep want to be alone, draw curtains, shut out light, in sleep fantasy rules, forget true danger
He’s knocking, a long time, out there so long he’s getting wet. She says – to reinforce sleepy – garment, can’t be bothered to walk to door
Why did her hands drip with myrhh, she touches what he has touched, gets a sniff of him,
Then she gets that smell of him and then she finds this strong desire for him, goes out looking for him, remembers what he is like. Absence doesn’t make the heart grow fonder spiritually. Sick with desire, thinks of daily, dreams of at night. What do our meditations think of? It’s him that she loves.
I was REALLY curious about Sibbes when Reeves talked about his theology of sleepiness (and also some info that might have been after 13 minutes). Sounded as if it might hit close to home. SO, I hunted for Sibbes info. I did find the first chapter of “The Love of Christ” with a forward by Mike Reeves (loved the forward).
But I didn’t know how much I was missing, so I hunted a little more and found the Complete Works of Richard Sibbes, vol. 2 and 4. Volume 2 contains “The Love of Christ” book. I compared the “Bowels Opened” section with the first chapter of “The Love of Christ,” and it’s the same. Not too surprising that it was renamed for a contemporary audience 🙂
Here is the link to the Complete Works of Richard Sibbes, Vol 2. You might think the link doesn’t work (that’s what I thought), but PATIENCE is the key because it is 548 pages!!
My goodness you make me smile, Renee. 548 pages! That’s a lot of reading! Love your enthusiasm!
Elizabeth, I don’t need to type my notes, your notes are very thorough…thanks for posting them.
I was struck by the similarity Reeves referenced with SoS and the Psalms. I looked up “joy” trying to figure out which psalm he was referencing and ended up finding a few that touched my heart this morning. I finished listening to Reeves during my lunch… his comparison of physically sleepy to spiritually sleepy is interesting, “desire to be alone-shut out light. In sleep fantasy rules, there is false good, forgetting true danger. The most precious thing men carry about them is lost in sleep”…and a bit frightening. I am eager to follow Renee’s link to Sibbes Vol. 2…thanks for sharing, Renee.
Dawn, I really loved your “Deep calling to deep … God is deep, the Holy Spirit is deep”. I’m glad that you are feeling better these days.
Welcome Teresa…:)
Dee, I too am appreciative of your efforts. I’m glad that the retreat went well this weekend despite all of the obstacles put in your path. I will be prayering for your health to be restored.
Thanks, Nanci )
How are those baby girls doing, Grandma?
3. Review Song of Songs 1:2-3 and 1:13: He is sweetness to her – and this is so key. This is when Reeves gets excited about the parallel with Psalm 4:7 – so read that. What parallel do you see?
Wow! HE IS joy; His love is better than gifts, including gifts from Him — even a good harvest (So relevant at this time of year).
Elizabeth and Renee — thank you for the enthusiastic beginning on listening to this Reeves talk. That is such a confirmation to me — I thought it so wonderful we had to listen in bite-sized pieces.
Dee, this Reeves talk is excellent and I haven’t even gotten to Friday’s portion which you said we definitely shouldn’t miss. I was telling my husband this morning what an enlightening week this has been for me thus far; how my vantage has really been adjusted in looking at Jesus rather than His provision of salvation, grace, etc. For most of my life I have felt a closeness to God the Father but lacked that with Jesus…in my mind and heart, Jesus was the “Savior,” “Redeemer”…He was someone I greatly respected. In these past weeks and especially so this week, I have felt my heart soften…it is truly an answer to prayer. I have so longed for a more “personal” relationship with Jesus and I can see that that is the path I have been set upon with this study. Many thanks for your obedience to the Lord’s calling you to engage in the study of SoS…I know that I am certainly one of the beneficiaries of your obedience.
Dear Sisters,
I am so grateful for your prayers. The retreat was so good but there was so much warfare. My voice is completely gone now, and Deanna is right — this is dejavu. I realize having 7 grandchildren under three is a new challenge for I am with them and often pick up a cold — and then go to speak. God certainly showed up and I did get home last night and was thankful to get home. God also helped me to see a deer in time for it was night driving.
I am scheduled to travel Wednesday to do a tour of Texas federal prisons for a week, then come home and do a retreat here. So I do need prayer. I would be sad to cancel — that would be a victory I feel for the enemy. I am doing everything I know to do, and will see if my doctor can see me.
I was very thankful for the body of Christ and I am so thankful for you!!!!!
Be assured of my prayers, Dee. I hope the doctor is able to help! You have a very busy couple of weeks ahead!
Glad you didn’t hit the deer. We often see deer here. There was one of our lawn feeding just last evening.
Dee/Diane, I have to chime in on your “deer” conversation! (No pun intended) HA! I wish I had the capacity to show you the photos over the course of the last few months…(with regularity) I have been visited by a “young stag” and family!! Almost daily…No joke…every morning and evening they peruse into the yard across from my house…I have a great view of the space so I can just sit and drink my coffee, etc…and watch them! Things like this make me smile because I know that God is never really random…though it doesn’t have a voice, nature speaks (God has total control)! I think the beautiful expressive persistent viewing (in regard to this “deer” family) is a sweet SOS gift to me…..!!!
Glad to know there was no harm done in your encounter Dee….
You all are DEAR!!! 🙂
Love this “deer” exchange. I hadn’t connected deer with Song of Solomon but it is connected of course. Thanks for pointing that out, Rhonda. We are regularly seeing deer in our yard for the last few weeks. They are so beautiful!
tagging on to the deer conversation for a second–I do love them, and I’ve been thankful we have lots around our new house, BUT, they ate all my pansies! I was so sad-ate the whole thing! Just hoping they don’t dig up my tulips & hyacinths 🙂
Dee…praying for you!
This is what stood out to me. This so is me. I have known the Lord and his love, but with this study it seems what I have known has dropped into my heart. Especially the understanding of this particular book in the bible..it just speaks to my heart so deeply of God’s love. I only see God in love now…it’s a beautiful thing!
Staci — this makes me so thankful.
Dee, I am excited to tell you that I was gifted a (mostly) free airline ticket and I used it to book a flight to Nebraska for your April retreat there. I have a very dear friend that lives there so it is double pleasure to be able to hear you speak and also spend time with refreshing a friendship.
Rejoicing with you, Jill!
Jill, I live in Kearney and will be there in April….I want to met you! I’m very excited to get to see Dee again! And you now t oo!
Jill..I am from Kearney. ..I want to met you as I will be there too!
Joyce, it will be fun to meet you! =)
Jill what fun news! I know I’ll be staying for a few days for it is in my hometown — let me know when you arrive and when you leave so we can get together! Joyce too! I may only be speaking Friday night — not sure — they are still working on details…
Dee, I will be arriving the Thursday afternoon before and leaving the Sunday afternoon after. (Barring any changes, it is 4 months away, but that is what my ticket is right now.)
=)
Sounds good — will you remind me again when we are a few weeks out?
2. Share your notes on these first 13 minutes. HE IS THE FAIREST OF TEN THOUSAND TO MY SOUL
I am just going to share notes on one section that stood out to me.
Chapter 5, Verse 2 – She is groggy at least, sort of sleeping, sleepy. He comes and knocks.
Rev. 3:20 “Behold I stand at the door and knock.” This is a direct reference to SoS. The church of Laodicea is not completely asleep, certainly not awake, not responding. He knocks. There is a lot of similarity between Revelation and Song of Songs. There is a lot of the story of the bridegroom and his bride.
Similarly, He wins and protects his bride from the dragon and then brings his bride to the wedding ceremony (in both Song of Songs and Revelation).
From Sibbes: his theology of sleepiness, he talks on 2 levels – spiritual sleepiness and how similar it can be to our sleepiness
I haven’t been keeping up with the study but read the postings each week. This one I could relate to in so many ways. i honestly have struggled so much to feel God’s LOVE and sometimes feel I never will. HOW can I feel love for God or feel love from God when I’ve never known what it really feels like except for my children? I feel like I never chose my husband – that circumstances brought us together – and that I’ve never really LOVED him. I feel like I know ABOUT God but don’t really KNOW God. I am constantly going back to my idols which for me are my escapes from reality: novels, soap operas, alcohol, and shopping. I have used all from an early age. I loabout he thought that everything could “drop from my head to my heart”. I pray that someday that would happen for me. I have such a longing for God but I feel no real relationship. I am going to try and stay close to this blog this week. Sorry For the lengthy post.
Chris Henderson–thank you for your honesty–and don’t ever apologize for the length! We are blessed to have you here and I am praying for you to feel His deep love for you–
Chris, our struggle with idols are very strong. Do not give up! God’s power is perfected in our weakness. Thank you for sharing with us. I’ll be praying for you.
Chris, your not alone…we all have our struggles…I will be pray for you.
Dear Chris, I can hear the pain in your words and I do believe you are crying out for help. Chris, do you have a trusted pastor or perhaps a very spiritually wise, mature woman in your life who you could share your feelings and struggles with? Or perhaps finding a good Christian counselor? It is so hard to go it alone, and we aren’t meant to. I do know something about trying to escape from reality, especially a marriage that disappoints. I used to escape into fantasizing, daydreaming that I was married to someone else. It was a serious idol in my life and it still rears its ugly head at times. I heard this quote from Luci Swindoll and it really stuck with me: “God is a God of reality – He will meet you in your reality, not anywhere else”. When God finally put His finger on my idol (nearly 13 years ago) it was a very painful experience, but I am thankful He loved me enough to stop me from the path I was headed down. And when I shared with two very good Christian friends, it was very freeing, bringing it into the light. Satan best keeps us a prisoner when we are isolated all by ourselves, keeping our sin and struggles a secret.
We are certainly here for you on this blog, but I really believe you need someone you can talk to face-to-face, and I hope you will pursue that. I also feel this should encourage you, when you write that you have such a longing for God…you would not long for Him if He was not pursuing you. I will be praying for you!
Chris — I am so glad you posted so we can be praying for you. I think The Song of Songs can help you too — as well as these dear sisters.
Praying for you today.
another good Fernando Ortega–listened to this on the way to work and it got me ‘happy in the Lord” 🙂 This Good Day
This Fernando Ortega song is so cheerful it does make my soul “happy in the Lord” too. 🙂
I have not wanted to post this today – but I could use support. One of the idol’s I have confessed is food. Over the weekend, I had a very difficult time. I feel like an animal. Today has been better, but harder than expected. I ordered the Bible Study which addresses this and have considered fasting. Thank u for reading. I have been on this particular journey for a very long time and desire to be FREE!
praying for you now, Tereasa–Lord, thank you for putting in Tereasa’s heart a desire to be freed of her idols and filled with You. Thank You for strengthening her to be brave sharing her struggle, so we can lift her up to You. Lord, draw her close, satisfy her soul with Your love for her. In Your Holy, Powerful Name we pray
Amen…praying for you too Tereasa.
Amen to elizabeth’s prayer for you Tereasa. I will be praying too.
I’m praying for you, too, Tereasa.
So glad you are here Tereasa — it’s a journey of trusting His love to replace idols, and glad you are on it with us!
Welcome Tereasa! I am so thankful God brought you to Dee’s retreat and you are so longing for freedom and I am praying for you!
3. Review Song of Songs 1:2-3 and 1:13: He is sweetness to her – and this is so key. This is when Reeves gets excited about the parallel with Psalm 4:7 – so read that. What parallel do you see?
God’s love is richer, more satisfying, than the best of earthly pleasures. And even in excess, it is never destructive.
4. How do you see that she loves him rather than his gifts?
She describes HIM, His beauty, who He is—not what He does for her.
5. What error do we lean toward in presenting the gospel as a formula? How might you do it differently?
The formula of first be saved, then be sanctified—can miss the heart of loving Him. It becomes works-based, effort on becoming holy. If we first show other Jesus, let them fall in love with Jesus—then they will be saved by His love, and a filled with a desire to be holy not out of duty but because of His beauty, as Keller says.
6. Review Song of Songs 5:2-8 How is physical sleepiness is similar to spiritual sleepiness?
There is a sluggishness of the mind. A desire for ease. When I am spiritually tired I don’t want to dig, to meditate—and that sleep begets sleep. It seems to grow. I think depression is close behind. Listen from 12:55 t0 23:40 We Must Feast With Him Before We Suffer With Him
7. Share your notes.
THIS WAS SO GOOD!!!But then the smell of Him arouses a strong desire for Him and she goes out looking for Him. She remembers what He is like.
Sibbes-take a man who is sick for any earthly thing-that which the soul is sick of in love, it thinks of daily, through the night.
What do we most think of? What do we daydream about? She does love Him. It is the peculiar interest the Church has in Christ that satisfies us. Our nature is to think about what we love. What she loves is Him. She is interested in talking about Him.
The caution for us is that we don’t talk about grace too much—really we are talking about salvation in Christ alone, through His righteousness. Christians should be ones characterized not by talking (primarily) about grace—but by talking about Christ, and His graciousness.
Her love for Him declines when she doesn’t see Him. It is recovered when she perceives His constant affection unto her, despite how she acts (evidenced by the myrrh).
***Sibbes- we cannot please Christ better than in showing ourselves welcome, cheerfully taking part of His rich provision. Christ is so kind to her, He puts on a full table for her—we are to go in and feast, accept His inviting of us—that is our duty, to accept His invitation to feast with Him.
We will not suffer with Him if we will not feast with Him. Yes, we are in an age of suffering now, and glory to come—but we will not be prepared to suffer, if we do not first enjoy feasting with Him—then we see that He is worth suffering for! **So BEFORE the times of suffering, FEAST with Him. She can only truly love Him if she knows she is loved. So let us open our mouths wide, Christ is so ready to fill it. We are only constrained in our own hearts.
“sleep begets sleep”
YES! I find that is true with a lot in my life – productivity begets productivity and choosing not to serve idols begets not serving idols (thinking specifically here of serving my kids instead of my selfishness).
I think we need to add a “head nod” button! ;P
Also – I really like a pastor’s “magic” trick. He opened a bottle of water, poured it into a pitcher and then said “watch what happens!” as he then poured it from the pitcher to a glass. What happened? Nothing, it was water…because what you pour in is what you pour out. (Feast with Him before times of suffering.)
Mary-Canada, you just came to my mind–praying you are well. Angela–you too! Miss you & updates on little man!
Elizabeth, here I am reading through the comments and saw my name and smiled. Thank you so much for praying for me. I am okay, working through some stuff, I will admit to still being out of sorts and not really understanding a lot. I do know that the Lord will lead me through what ever this is and I will understand more later. I am working through the bible study off line but reading comments when I can. I didn’t stop listening at 12:55 either, actually listened to the whole thing (I know Dee wanted to take it a bit at a time, but just couldn’t help myself) i do however need to go back and listen to it again, this time in the bits that Dee recommended).
I have said it before, I am blessed to have such a caring group of ladies in my life.
Hmm…. I don’t know WHERE I posted the last responses. I even double checked the url. Hopefully, I didn’t post in a class I’m teaching:) though maybe that would be good.
I realized I didn’t answer the last part of the question, how to share the gospel other than by formula: By talking about the one I love? By living the Gospel in how I treat people. Maybe through story.
How is physical sleepiness is similar to spiritual sleepiness?
According to Sibbes (p 41, if I remember right, of Vol 2 in his complete works; I bolded what struck me):
Reading this (after I understood it!) was helpful because rather than seeing the similarities between physical and spiritual sleep, I was getting mixed up, thinking somehow that physical sleep was bad for me spiritually. Plus, I thought the part about the professor was amusing and true. Either Sibbes himself was a professor or he spent some time in that world.
Yes, Renee — glad that was clarified on sleep. And I smiled at the dead professor thing too…
Will reply to your inquiry about my health below to all!
DEE, HOW ARE YOU?? I’M PRAYING FOR YOU.
2. Share your notes on Mike Reeves.
She loves him, not what he can do, not the salvation but HIM.
Misrepresentation of the gospel – its easy, and then…wait, no, its not, you need to 1,2,3,etc. Instead come know Him and keep knowing Him. You long to please the one you love. You WANT to walk in His ways.
Rev 3:20 people are spiritually sleeping. There is a lot of similarity between revelation and song of songs.
Sibbes theology of sleeping: Med who desire to be asleep, desire to be alone, he will find solitude away from other Christians. Men who desire to sleep shut out light, and fantasy/false light dominate.
When she is asleep her desired has waned…she doesn’t really want him anymore. When she gets a sniff of him she remembers what he is like. (This is why her heart quickens?! She remembers.) When she did not desire him, he left. She got what she wanted…to be alone. (This is interesting because just in tonight’s study of Idol Lies we were speaking of Ezekiel when God gives the bride over to her idols, she got what she wanted, and how this is mimicked in our lives as well.)
3. Review Song of Songs 1:2-3 and 1:13: He is sweetness to her – and this is so key. This is where Mike Reeves gets excited about the parallel with Psalm 4:7 – so read that. What parallel do you see? They say mostly the same thing. Gladness of heart and desiring Him more than the merry things of this world (grain and wine).
4. How do you see that she loves him and rather than his gifts? Whenever she speaks of him she speaks of his characteristics, not about what he has done or will do for her, unless it is something that has communicated his desire such as bounding over mountains vs doing something FOR her. (I do not have time to review the whole book for this, but in recent verses that we have studied this is the case.) There is also (to my recollection) never a time when she gets disappointed in him or angry at something he has done or not done. Her desire does wane but this is a selfish thing not a dissatisfaction issue. (That is how I see it.)
5. What error do we lean towards when presenting the gospel? How might you do it differently. This question interests me. A lot of times we present the gospel as a club membership: “It’s simple!” Just say the sinner’s prayer and then I will hand you a list of to-do’s and to-don’ts. (Not being disrespectful here.) But the scripture talks about if we know God we will love, and yet we hate. And scripture talks about God knowing we love Him by us following His commands, but so few desire to do what He asks. I see a lot of topical preaching happening in churches and while they are good thought with truth attached I cannot remember the last time someone spoke on just how beautiful God is, how glorious Christ is. Would that message have a different result at the altar call? (Though I do appreciate worship that focusses on who He is, but often even that turns into what He has done). I know that I accepted Christ as a young child because I was presented with a choice to go to heaven or go to hell. Later in college I chose Christ because I heard Him call me. Now I am given a new perspective, a beginning knowledge of who He is! Just as a believing wife should win over her unbelieving husband without a word, but rather with actions so, too, I should win people over with my actions (if I am truly changed people will see!) and then be ready to give reason for my joy. Still processing this….Loving the Mike Reeves talk, can’t wait to listen again tomorrow.
6. Review Song of Songs 5:2-8 How is physical sleepiness similar to spiritual sleepiness? I really liked what Sibbes had to say on this (see above in notes on Mike Reeves). I see a danger in sleepiness, it is so hard to do *anything* when you are sleepy and you are usually ineffectual and slow when you do do something when sleepy. Also your desire is only for the immediate thing…your bed! I am more susceptible to lies when sleepy…”I can get ready in 2.5 minutes and still be on time…” Or even throw things off your to-do list – “I don’t really need to do ALL that today…” I suppose the long and short of it is: selfishness.
The Gospel Focus of Charles Spurgeon Kindle version is free right now. Not exactly the kind of book I’d like to read on a Kindle, but free is free 🙂
Thanks Rener…I got it!
Got it. Thanks, Renee!!
. Share your notes on these first 13 minutes. HE IS THE FAIREST OF TEN THOUSAND TO MY SOUL
I listened to this a few times. I so loved this sermon. I especially like this take on salvation~Jesus is the ticket of hell, but we forget we are ‘saved’ to know Him, not just in the benefits of salvation. I so wish churches taught more on Jesus love and Jesus nature. I had an amazing experience when I was saved. I spent every waking minute just basking in Jesus presence, praying and reading the bible. I think during that time is when Jesus showed me how real His love was for me. I just wish everyone could see and experience this.
I thought I could finish this today, I will need to finish up later. Please be in prayer for me, I have not been feeling well. I have had back issues my whole life and Im in a lot of pain more so than ever the past week. I went to the doctor yesterday, which is a process here with social health care…I have to get approval from military insurance, Tricare, just to go to a general doctor, who then is referring me to an orthopedic who then refers me to get an MRI…its a process and Im in a lot of pain more so in my chest today?? My whole left side of my body does not feel good. It comes and goes, first was my back and hip and now the pain is in my chest and arm. I do not have heart issues, there really is something out of alignment in my back. Xrays never show anything, so waiting to get an MRI….and hoping we find the issue and nothing serious. Thanks for your prayers. It’s hard to sit at times and Im really tired a lot too? If you knew me, sitting still is NOT my thing, so if anything I feel really out of sorts here. Not to mention mother/taxi duties still must go on… Thanks for your prayers. I do read the post on here, just dont respond much.
Staci, so sorry you are in such pain. Oh, my! Praying for you, for doctors, for the approval process for an MRI. Lean into Jesus!
Staci, I’m so sorry to hear you’re feeling so badly and in so much pain, and the hoops you have to go through just to go to the doctor!
Heavenly Father, You are the Great Physician, and You know what is wrong with Staci…why she hurts, and I ask You to please heal her…please ease her pain…please protect her and open doors for her to get the medical help she needs. Lord, she is so tired, too…please help with that, too. And be near Staci and comfort her with Your presence. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
Amen
Dear Staci, I am so sorry you are hurting so bad. I have had 4 back surgeries and still suffer so too. I,m praying you get a MR I soon and a Dr can help you asap.
Joyce, any updates on Trevor – his visit to the doctor, testing done as to why he was passing out? And your daughter’s financial situation?
2. Share your notes on these first 13 minutes. HE IS THE FAIREST OF TEN THOUSAND TO MY SOUL
Wow, was this wonderful! Her love is for Him-not for what she can get from Him. She wants Him. I loved how he applied this to evangelism: If we communicate the Gospel in a way that the hearer sees it as a way out of hell and into heaven-that it will get you salvation, then they will see it in a box and the idea that God wants to make them holy is a snag to them. If they are told they come to Jesus to come to know Jesus-to have Jesus then the Christian life is no jump from the Gospel they heard. You are saved to know Jesus, now keep knowing Him. This is walking with Him-you long to please the one you love. His ways become increasingly delightful to you and you want to walk with Him.
I loved Sibbs theology on sleeping:
Sibbs theology on Sleepiness: He is thinking on two levels-spiritual sleepiness and our sleepiness. Men disposed to be asleep, desire to be alone. If you want to be sleepy you will find solitude. Men when they want to be asleep will draw the curtains and shut out light when they need to compose themselves to rest. But in sleep fantasy rules nad dreams in fantasy. Men in sleep dream of false good and forget true danger. In sleep the precious-est thing men carry about them is taken away without resistance.
I so loved this from Reeves:
He is clearly knocking for a long time-he has been out there a long time getting wet. He is knocking on goinginly. She says, I put off my garment, how can I put it on? I bathe my feet, how can I soil them? She can’t be bothered to put on her garment and to get her feet dirty just to go to the door. So she doesn’t really want him at that point. Her desire for Him has waned. He can knock and she doesn’t care. He put his hand to the latch and it thrilled it. He smells of myrhh..she touches what he touched and she gets a sniff of him and remembers what he is like. She goes just where he has been putting her hands on the bolt. She didn’t’ really want him and so he left. So she got what she wanted,
but then she gets that smell of him and then she finds this strong desire for Him and goes out looking for Him and says she is sick with love-she suddenly remembers what he is like.
I am loving your responses to Reeve’s teaching. Great job!
I have a little more voice than yesterday but still not enough to speak. Am scheduled to start traveling tomorrow for the prison tour so please keep praying. I tend to worry — Psalm 94:19 has been a comfort “When cares increase, your consolations give me hope.” (My paraphrase) Linda Strom is wonderful, trusting the Lord in this — but so much has been planned. Pray we have wisdom and stay in step with Him.
Thank you dear sisters.
Oh Dee, you must be exhausted, just getting home from KY and then leaving tomorrow. I will be praying for you! My mom would say to gargle with lots of warm salt water…sip hot liquids…maybe even warm compresses on your neck. May He come running to you…to heal, restore, renew your strength. Love you, Dee.
Oh, Dee, praying. I know you are on medication. I pray it works. Get as much rest as you can.
I love the verse. Here it is in ESV. I had to look up “consolation”. I means “comfort” as from grief or disappointment. I am going to pray this verse as well. May God comfort you and give you peace.
Psalm 94:19
English Standard Version (ESV)
19 When the cares of my heart are many, your consolations cheer my soul.
Oh Dee, may God comfort your spirit and give you peace with your good health regained. PRAYING!
1. What stands out to you and why?
I love the whole opening, really. The delicate beauty of the lilies of the valley…perfect, altogether lovely and white, and created by His hands. They reflect their Creator.
Love Dee’s account of the retreat, how she spoke on Song of Songs and the women understood and one in particular found new freedom, and that despite the enemy’s best efforts to get Dee lost, technical troubles, and Dee having a cold!
And, that we must let the beauty of the Lord overcome the evil one. Oh. I let myself lapse into sin and idolatry on Sunday evening. Not outwardly…nothing in my behavior, but in my thought life, what was going on on the inside. On Monday, I didn’t want to even talk to God. But I finished-up last week’s lesson, the part where the maiden describes her lover to the daughters of Jerusalem. How I had to tell the Lord that at times, I feel like I have a tug-of-war going on in my heart…I can see His excellency, His beauty, and still be tempted to turn away to an idol. It can be a real WAR in my heart. I hate that it is so.
It’s a long journey in the same direction, as Eugene Peterson would say. Love you, Susan.
Dee, I sat with u at dinner Sat. evening and was the one who asked Chris questions so u wouldn’t have to speak, plus I mentioned my close friend whose husband just went to heaven, u might remember……I still feel so very special that God would allow me the honor of sitting next to u. (U mentioned this blog at that time as well.). Thank u for coming to the retreat!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tereasa — thank you for putting it together who you are! I thought you very other-centered!
I am doing my preparation for our “Idol Lies” Bible study and have just listened to Dee’s video for Lesson 4. On this video she has quite a bit to say about how sin is adultery that destroys, yet, very importantly, how Song of Songs portrays the compelling, positive side of the Bible’s “sexual metaphor”. I just thought I would mention that it is worth a listen. Check out the free Idol Lies videos here.
I am so appreciating the Idol Lies Bible study. It is touching to watch the “lights go on” in some of the women’s hearts who have been believers for many years. Yet I also sense that some are resisting or “not getting it.” Pray for our group that meets Wednesday evenings.
Will pray for them and for you as you prepare, Diane. Thanks for the link 🙂
Diane — that’s so encouraging. I taught it in adult SS and the people I wanted most to get it didn’t — but the tender hearts did.
!. The song more precious than silver more costly than gold.
I sang that song whn I was first saved but not until now. In Sibbes recording he speaks of the church in Laodicea. The parallels in the book of Revelation with Song of Solomon. I agree. The bridegroom and the bride at the marriage feast of the lamb.
What leapt out at me when I listened to Sibbe’s was “I slept but my heart was awake”. That is how I have felt for many years. My heart was crying out but I had to sleep to survive but now I do not feel that way.
On Sat. nite we had communion in evening service. I understood the blood of Christ but I asked Jesus about Matthew 26 vs 26. I asked Jesus, what does it mean when u say Take and eat; this is my body. Jesus is teaching me that it means to eat of Him. I am uncomfortable with that analogy but it means that I am to feast with him. In Is:55 vs 1&2 ….Why do u spend yr $ for that which is not bread, & yr earnings for tht which does not satisfy? Hearken diligently to me; & eat wht is good, & let yr soul delight itself in fatness (the profuseness of spiritual joy). I can honestly say one time (abt one mo. ago) that happened and I was speechless. I was not watching tv. I was not believing the lies of the enemy. I was alone in my room praising God and whn I chose Christ and not my idols I was literally filled with (the profuseness of spiritual joy). Immediately of course I retreated but now I can boldly say that my time will be with Christ. I am reading a book called Spiritual Truths for Overcoming Adversity by Greg Hinnant. He mentions George Mueller on page 12 whr he quotes George Mueller as saying “The only way to learn strong faith is to endure great trials. I have learned my faith by standing firm amid severe testing. I want to feast on Jesus each day.
My sister B who was in the hospital for 3 weeks is now out and asking via e-mail for me not to send her anymore e-mails on Christ or talk of Christ as she says she is on the same moral, spiritual pathway. I send my husband and sometimes family members my devotionals that I receive via e-mail from Anne Graham Lotz website.
I have exp. The same comments from Chuck’s dtr. Christy and my youngest dtr. Christina. Chuck responded to Christy comments that he and I share these devotions. With Christina she threatened to block my e-mail. I responded that she has to do what she has to do. With B I have not responded but I am asking Christ to help me draft an e-mail that states “for me to not talk about Christ is impossible”. To pick my words and share only what she wants is not a relationship. With B it is more complicated b/c of her mental illness. Is it the enemy that wants me not to share.? Wht if she dies?? etc. I am trusting Christ and I cannot save. Only God can. I remember from years and years ago reading a Billy Graham article. That we pray believing all people will be saved but realizing that not all will accept Christ. I always want to rescue people. I am always stretching -if I cld just make them believe- I have to let go. The dysfunction is so great that it is harming me now.
With my family it is so complicated b/c of the abuse, lies, neglect etc. but I believe the love of Christ can change all people. Many times when I am seeking God He gives me a chorus.
Though none go with me still I will follow.
I know Christ touched my mother’s life whn she was a teenager but she did not choose Christ. I know my sister B experienced an encounter with Christ whn she was a child but she is not choosing Christ. I know my older sister has experienced Christ and when she calls me and I pray for her she likes that but does not choose Christ. My brother said he went forth at a meeting to accept Christ. My other sister Della(no contact with the family) goes to the Salvation Army church as far as we know. I am not trying to vilify or boast here only to tell the truth. At the beginning, Dee, u quoted James where he boldly states that even demons believe (u see tht in the gospels whn Jesus sets the demon possessed free-the demons shout Jesus “have u come to torment us before the appointed time)and the demons are afraid of God but we as children of God get to love God. To fellowship with God. To delight in Him and He delights in us. He delights over me with singing. In Zephaniah the word states that.
So again as I type I am saying out loud that Jesus loves me and I accept His love. I am loved. I am my beloved and He is mine! W/o Him I wld simply fade away. With Him I can do all things.
I do pray for u Dee and all of u from time to time. U have been my shelter over this last year. Like Christ. Thou O’Lord art a shelter about me. You are the glory and the lifter of my head. So many times I have a word picture of Christ touching my chin and lifting my head up.
I appreciate so much the leadership of the church. Dee being a minister, Called my God for such a time as this. For Anne Graham Lotz, Joyce Meyer, David Mainse, Jim Cantelon, The gospel coalition, worship leaders like Brian Doerksen etc. Leadership in my church. For submission to authority b/c Christ requires that of us. Right now I am anticipating the Getty’s arrival through the mail(my c.d’s I ordered). I long to worship Christ with them singing the hymns.
My husband Chuck will be on the road for the next four months. He will be home for w/e. Sometimes I will be able to go with him but mostly I am looking forward to my time with Christ. The biggest lie the enemy is throwing at us now is the past, Chuck calls them “devil thoughts” . Chuck like my dtr.’s is able to articulate love. Chuck kisses my hand when we travel or my dtr.’s hug etc. Touch is a big thing with me. I so appreciate the picture above of Dee’s dtr. above. My children’s love for me gave me some inkling of God’s love for me. I have a picture taken at my mother’s funeral. We are all sitting together holding hands. I pray one day we can do that in heaven. Right now we are a bit scattered but they are living their lives and I am living mine. They are all in the twenties and thirties. I had my chn when I was young.
It is strange to think of love, of someone loving me or me loving others. But I do love fiercely in my prayers, in my thoughts, in my writing but mostly in my prayers. And I know God hears them. I thank Christ Jesus for His love, for interceding before the throne room of grace for me but mostly for allowing me free access to Father God and My beloved friend the precious Holy Spirit. So I will not be alone over the next four months. Christ is for me so who can be against me. Like Christ said in Matthew 26 vs 26 I can freely eat of Him. I will believe Him and Him alone. Of course I am crying but it seems lately like always my tears are covering the hem of Jesus garment.
I wrote this poem in Oct of 2012. Sometimes my poems are on scraps of paper and sometimes on the empty pages in my bible. Well actually it is Chuck’s bible with his name on it but he never used it so I have b/c his is in a different translation than mine. Sometimes my amplified is too wordy but I do treasure it b/c the ladies gave it to me whn I was in the transition house back in the late 80’s. Anyhow…I called my poem Signposts
I remember signposts
in my mind
An man striding full
of God’s joy
Dressed in a suit
Swinging his bible
A sign after my
4-12 shift
Shifting me out
of my
melancholy!
Making me smile
Thinking of God’s
grace
Memories of worship
Doors flung wide open
to the street
Dancing, rejoicing
Remembering Jesus
In all we say and do
Evening testimonies
Evening church
Walking for Jesus
Simply, Jesus
Speaking, exclaiming
singing
The name of Jesus
How I love that name
Jesus
Do you?
I wish I could have given u all a bouquet of roses from my garden. We experienced our first snowfall here and my roses look rather sad hanging their heads with moisture but their colours are just as vibrant if not more so.
Blessings to each and everyone and I will continue to lift up all of u to the throne room of grace where God’s mercy and love is ever flowing.
Just recently I went to a membership class. A big step. I am considering this. Chuck does not want it. Our pastor allows gay couples to come. He asked them “what is their agenda” They said they have none. Our church reaches out to the marginalized of our city. Reformed alcoholics, reformed prostitutes (Rahab is mentioned in the faith hall of fame -an ex-prostitute in the lineage of Christ), self righteous people (I was one), broken people, divorced people, people from prisons, ones with no visible scars and also the ones in need of physical healing. Christ is so good. That all are welcome at His table. I amazed with the love of Christ. The unity He brings and how fiercely He protects His own. I like to read the prayer in John whr Jesus prays for himself, his disciples, and for all of us. I am so thankful that my name is written down in the Lamb’s book of life and I know Jesus.
Mellany
Mellany — you always express yourself so well. Husband on the road for four months is a long time!
This is really good–thought some of you might like this too. Video is only 8 minutes “Paul Tripp, Tullian Tchividjian, and Dave Furman explore the dimensions of divine grace available only in the crucibles of human suffering” from GC. I’ve started Glorious Ruin, but it’s one of many in my bedside pile 😉
Thanks, Elizabeth. It IS good! “The violence of grace” — a phrase to ponder. I didn’t even know Dubai has “above ground” Christian churches. That was interesting in itself!
Renee-Dave Furman (the pastor of the Dubai Redeemer church in the video)–his wife Gloria has a blog I follow & has written Glimpses of Grace and it is wonderful–she even quotes Sibbes 😉
Love the video, Elizabeth. Worth listening to a second time. Yep, I’d like to read Glorious Run too. Deep sigh! So many good books, so little time.
2. Share your notes on these first 13 minutes.
We have been reading about Christ’s love for the church, but now it is time to think about the love of the church for Christ. Reeves compared SOS 1:2 with Psalm 4:7
3. Review Song of Songs 1:2-3 and 1:13: He is sweetness to her – and this is so key. This is when Reeves gets excited about the parallel with Psalm 4:7 – so read that. What parallel do you see?
Both passages are expressing a love for the Lord that surpasses anything else in life.
4. How do you see that she loves him rather than his gifts? Everything she mentions is a characteristic of Him, not talking about what He has given her or what He has done for her.
5. What error do we lean toward in presenting the gospel as a formula? How might you do it differently?
To be truthful, until now I had not realized that we present the Gospel as a formula. I guess it could be described that way. Each church has its own way of approaching the matter, guiding the person through repentance, confession of faith, and baptism.If we were to put the emphasis on bringing the person to a point of love of Jesus first and then suggest these other matters as ways people who love the Lord express that love, it might be the better way to go.
6. Review Song of Songs 5:2-8
How is physical sleepiness is similar to spiritual sleepiness?
They both sneak up on you. That is why fallling asleep behind the wheel is such a danger — one can drift off without even realizing what is happening. At home when I am really tired and wanting to sleep, it is almost no-contest, I just succumb. I have at times gone to bed, telling myself that it will all look better in the morning — leaving too great a load for the next day. So it is easy to make excuses and lower my standards. Spiritual sleepiness is very similar to physical sleepiness. It is easier to NOT do things than it is to do them — just sleep and don’t bother with worship, Sunday School, etc. The longer a person allows themselves to sleep it through, the easier it gets to do it. It is easy for people to “cool off” on Christian fellowship this way as well. Now I am recalling the sermon illustration of a pile of hot coals. If one ember is removed from the pile and set off by itself somewhere, it will soon cool off and die out. Such can be the fate of a Christian who decides that the fellowship of the church is unnecessary. Then too, just as an alarm clock can rudely awaken us in the morning, sometimes events in our lives come along to shock us and “wake us up” from our spiritual sleep.
3. Review Song of Songs 1:2-3 and 1:13: He is sweetness to her – and this is so key. This is when Reeves gets excited about the parallel with Psalm 4:7 – so read that. What parallel do you see?
Both make a comparison of joy in the Lord/Bridegroom and earthly pleasures…joy in the Lord/Bridegroom surpasses anything this world can offer.
4. How do you see that she loves him rather than his gifts?
The focus is Him…she mentions His qualities that she loves and not things to be gained by association with Him in a material or status sense.
5. What error do we lean toward in presenting the gospel as a formula? How might you do it differently?
As a formula, the gospel is kind of a deal, “this for that”. The “this for that” leans toward legalism in my mind…do this (confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior) and you get that (salvation). Relationship…”my beloved” is lost in that exchange. Reeves suggests that the better way is to present the gospel as “you are saved to know Jesus.” The difference I think is incredible, just in writing I sense a far different tone. I am grateful for the gift of grace in my salvation, but the “to know Jesus” is so inviting, so rich…it warms the heart and encourages relationship.
Nanci, I think you nailed it with the word “exchange” as a descriptor of the formula approach. “It” isn’t an exchange but a gift. And HE is the gift.
I agree Nanci — it is much to think on — and i’m examining how I present the gospel.
How is physical sleepiness similar to spiritual sleepiness?
I so loved Sibbs analagy on this. When we are spiritually asleep we desire to be alone-like in physical sleep when we want to go to bed and sleep. This is dangerous spiritually.
When we are spiritually asleep we are vulnerable to fantasies of a false satisfaction of comfort, security, and affirmation and we forget the real danger that we are vulnerable to the whispers of the evil one who will tell us God doesn’t really love us, and he can come into our garden and ruin it. When we are spiritually asleep, just like physical sleep, we give ourselves over to his lies and these false fantasies.
7. Share your notes.
Two things stood out to me:
1. Absence DOESN’T make the heart grow fonder. When she got out of bed and went to the door and got His scent-that is when she remembered Him and that is when her heart lept for Him again. She loves him but her desire had waned for Him because she hadn’t seen Him, until she went to the door and remembered Him and then she went about looking for him like a camel in heat. 😉 she thirsted after Him after she remembered Him.
2. This was gold: That we will not be prepared to suffer with Christ unless we feast with Him first. If we don’t enjoy Him, treasure Him and see Him as feastly, we won’t bother suffering for Him. Feast with Him now so that in times of sorrow you can have a joy underneath the sorrow. The Bride is the receiver of His love and it will provoke her response to Him.
8. She loves Him more than His gifts. She wants to be with Him. How do you see this in The Song of Songs?
When she is looking for Him she talks about Him, not His Grace or what He can give her.
10. Sibbes says you will not suffer with Him if you have not feasted with Him. She will not truly love Him unless she is convinced He loves her. Are you convinced? Find a passage in the Song of Songs that helps you.
Yes, I have grown convinced since being in Dee’s studies and doing Idol Lies and now Song of Songs these past four years! My soul is bent toward sleeping like the Shulamite maiden and I want to be with Him more and more so I don’t forget Him.
There are many passages in song of songs that we have studied that God has sown into my heart of His love for me, but the one that comes to mind right now is that He left the Myrrh on the door handle-not only did he wait and his hair was wet with dew-he left His scent behind for Her to remember Him! This speaks of His love for her-first He has her-she IS His and IS in love with Him but her desire has waned..and because He loves her He left His Myrrh on the handle so she would remember Him. Yes His presence left her, but HE didn’t leave her. He knew her desire waned and that she wouldn’t come to the door-so HE left his scent for her to remember Him..This is beautiful to me-HE is beautiful!
2. Share your notes on these first 13 minutes. HE IS THE FAIREST OF TEN THOUSAND TO MY SOUL
The first 13 minutes has certainly whetted my appetite to hear more:))
I like how Reeves takes us back to the opening verse of Song of Songs – it starts with HER LOVE FOR HIM – “Your love is better than wine…”
The parallel passage in Psalm 4:7 – also that God’s love is better than wine. Neat!
She loves HIM – not just His salvation, not what she can get from Him.
When we present the gospel to someone – some things to think about…”Come and KNOW Jesus…you are saved to KNOW Jesus”. Then it’s not like jumping off a cliff into the Christian life (oh – I am supposed to live a holy life?) – when you know Him, you will long to please Him.
I liked the discussion about how Revelation 3:20 seems to deliberately harken back to Songs 5:2. Both passages address people who are spiritually sleepy, not really responding. Revelation is the story of the Bridegroom and His Bride – how He protects His Bride from the dragon and brings her to the wedding supper. Songs is so much the story of the bridegroom and his bride, too.
Interesting quotes from Sibbe’s “Theology of Sleepiness”.
“Men disposed to be asleep desire to be alone.” Warning sign to me – do I retreat from wanting to be around other believers?
“But in sleep, fantasy rules and dreams in fantasy.” Speaks personally to me…I see how even when I am awake, going about my day, I am getting spiritually sleepy, letting my guard down, drifting into daydreaming…perhaps to relieve boredom, get my mind off circumstances? That’s not where I should be.
“In sleep, the preciousest thing that men carry about with them is taken away without resistance.” Much to ponder here as it pertains to being spiritually sleepy…not really desiring Him and not responding to Him. Since we cannot lose our relationship with Him…I am thinking along the lines of losing the joy and peace of His presence…and we let it go without putting up a fight.
I liked Reeves’ explanation on why her hands dripped with myrrh – b/c her hands touch what he touched and she gets a sniff of him and remembers what He’s like.
This seems to dovetail into what Dee said in the opening. to let His beauty overcome the evil one. I need to continually go back and remember.
3. Review Song of Songs 1:2-3 and 1:13: He is sweetness to her – and this is so key. This is when Reeves gets excited about the parallel with Psalm 4:7 – so read that. What parallel do you see?
His joy and love is better than wine, even new wine or grain. His name and presence is like perfume…oh how I love perfume! I have sensed the aroma of God before. I know that sounds weird,but once in prayer, going through so much, I cried out to God and I could smell the sweetest, most peaceful aroma. I thought it odd because my nose was completely stopped up from crying so much, I couldnt even breathe let alone smell physically. I have heard other testimonies of this happening to other people as well. So this really is special to me personally. God’s presence is so sweet in so many ways. Even His presence is like a fragrance of love like no other….
4. How do you see that she loves him rather than his gifts? She desires Him more than wine, or even the newest finest of wines. She wants to be lavished in His love, His presence…only His love will satisfy her.
5. What error do we lean toward in presenting the gospel as a formula? How might you do it differently? This really spoke to me in Reeves message, like salvation is a formula instead of salvation being about God’s love. I shared this morning with my womens bible study how much this weeks Song of Songs lesson has taught me we have it backwards at times. We should be talking about His LOVE, how much He loves us, how good His love is, instead of trying to convince people that gospel is the key. IN reality it is….but it doesn’t always make sense or win others over. Jesus expressed his love towards the lost through compassion, time with them and showing them he genuinely cared….for the bible says without love…everything is meaningless…
6. Review Song of Songs 5:2-8
How is physical sleepiness is similar to spiritual sleepiness? With it we are asleep, not awake or aware of our surroundings at times. We are not fully alert. Which we can miss out on what is going on around us. With spiritual sleepiness….we are not alert to things of God or hear Him calling, knocking at our hearts. I am guilty of this at times. I liked Mike Reeves take, when spiritually asleep we are not even aware of the most the most precious thing being taken from us “God” by our enemy.
Thank you for all the prayers. My back feels better, still sore and my chest, but its the norm for me. I have an appointment with an orthopedic doctor on the 18th and from there hopefully an MRI soon. I do think its something off in my back, has been this way my whole life, and always my left side. With age, its not going away as easily or as quickly as when it flares up? Xrays show nothing…so praying for answers.
Hi Staci, glad to hear you’re feeling somewhat better. I was wondering…where you live, do you also have good chiropractic doctors or licensed massage therapists who do more of a medical massage that treats pain like you have? A couple of months ago I was having a lot of neck and upper back pain and I saw a good massotherapist and it really helped.
I’m glad you’re going to see orthopedic dr. who will hopefully order an MRI…but if it shows that either massage or chiropractic manipulation wouldn’t be harmful, I wonder if that might be helpful to you. Another thought…my niece’s fiancé was injured in Iraq from a bomb blast and has chronic back pain. He went for acupuncture treatment and walked out of the first appt. pain free – he was pretty amazed.
Hi Susan, thanks for the advice. Yes we do have both massage/chiropractor. I have done both in the past. I use to go see a chiropractor in my 20s, loved it. The downfall is our military insurance has never covered this, so its out of pocket expense. Also its very costly here since its in Euros and not dollars. My friend gave me an American chiropractor to visit…so Im going to see what the orthopedic says and go from there. I do love the chiropractor. I have had acupuncture once when we lived in Italy and the base would not allow the doctor to do it on my back anymore. Military rules…it was only for active duty..sigh. Such is life as a dependent…lol. But I have heard the Dutch system has amazing physical therapy places and possibly might be covered with ‘massage’ too under our insurance….one could hope. Thanks for your prayers and advice. 🙂
7. Share your notes.
-What you love you will think of, dwell on, dream of it. This is interesting because two nights ago I woke to “knocking” at my door at 3am and I got up to answer the door! In my sleepiness I wanted to not be the bride who didn’t answer the door. Turned out it was just artillery (we live on a military base and often hear firing exercises). But I was intrigued with my reaction!
-You will still think on other things, but if you have a casual moment you will think on what you love.
-She’s not interested in talking about his kindness, she is interested in talking about him (though I do notice that she says “he is my friend” which may be construed as a characteristic or an action, I would be curious of the original language in this passage).
-Don’t talk of grace as if it is a thing in and of itself. We are really talking about salvation through Christ, in His graciousness. There is nothing that competes with Christ.
-Her love for him declines when he is absent. She forgets how good he is. It recovers by her perceiving his constant affection (the myrrh dripping from her hand) even though she has been unkind. I think we see this time and again in the church, people fall away and wait for God to come to them (which he can and sometimes does but the example is the bride who seeks and searches and asks friends to help search even through difficult times). This renews my conviction to continue getting up early to seek Him first, to get a sniff of Him to keep my perspective through the day.
-What does desire look like? We cannot please Christ better than ensuring ourselves welcome and taking part of his provision. Feasting in his presence. We honor him by partaking of the full banquet, enjoy his grace. Our duty is to accept Christ’s inviting to us. What will do for him if we do not feast with him, we will not suffer with Him if we will not feast with Him. You will not be prepared to suffer if you do not feast with Him, if you don’t enjoy Him, He won’t be worth it for suffering. I shared this with Elizabeth above but I will reiterate it here because I love the visual – a pastor shared a “magic trick” with us once. He opened a bottle of water and poured it into a pitcher and then said “Watch what happens now.” while pouring the water from the pitcher to a glass. Do you know what happened? Nothing. It was still water because what you pour in is what you will pour out.
-Joy underneath the sorrow (this goes with Mike Reeves previous discussion on affection vs. emotions).
-She will only truly love him if she is loved first. I know this is true and how it “has” to be but it makes me a little sad to not love Christ better than that.
-If you are not receiving it is because you are not willing to receive, He is always willing to give, he is more ready to give than we are to receive.
8. She loves Him more than His gifts. She wants to be with Him. How do you see this in the Song of Songs?
Even though she did not rise to open the door she seeks him, even through persecution/hardship. She remembers him. I am grateful that the Lord gives us mountain top experiences, our myrrh, to remember Him (“He touched me, Oh, He touched me! And o, the joy that floods my soul”). She speaks of him with only positive affection, always giving praise. Even when in conversation she praises him and implies gratitude.
9. How do you see suffering in Song of Songs 3:7? Is this the wrong verse? I do not know the answer. If it is supposed to be Song of Songs 5:7 then I see persecution, beating and hardship…all while seeking the Lord. This could be confusing to someone in a hard time because some in our church teach that if you obey you will avoid persecution and hardship, and while I do believe that God blesses obedience and protects us, it does not mean that we will not have difficulties or challenges or pain.
10. Sibbes says you will not suffer with Him until you have feasted with Him. She will not truly love Him until she is convinced He loves her. Are you convinced? Find a verse in Song of Songs that helps you. I am truly convinced! As Mike Reeves eluded, it is a pandemic in our church to seek the Lord only when in need or hardship. Song of Songs 8:5 is a picture of a couple leaning on each other, intimate, knowing, trusting. I love this picture and it helps me see the relationship with God as it should be. Just as a marriage cannot survive with one spouse always taking when in need but never rejoicing, enjoying, so too my relationship with God cannot thrive without enjoyment (and He already enjoys me so… its my responsibility!) and communion and FEASTING! =) The covenant is in place, union has already happened, now to rejoice and enjoy, no salvation by works or trying to be God’s favorite, just trust and confidence that I am His and He is mine.
Praise be.
I would appreciate prayers this week as I am dealing with a stressful situation that will go through the week and into next. I want to do what the Lord would have me do, for my fragrance to be of Christ and my soul to continue happy in the Lord despite difficulties. Thank you!
Lord, we lift up Jill to You and pray for this situation she has asked us to pray about. You know the details. You know her heart longs to please You. We ask that You would lead her in the path You have for her in this, and strengthen her with Your peace, with joy, despite the difficulties. May You be glorified through this Lord, Amen.
I’m reading your comments and am so glad for your meditations.
I just made the hard decision not to go to Texas to the prisons as I have no voice back. I hate it but must trust. Only other time I’ve cancelled speaking is when Steve was dying. Linda Strom has been WONDERFUL trusting the Lord. Volunteers will step in for Plan B. Please pray for them.
This makes me sad, Dee. Sorry you have no voice still and that you will miss Texas, but, yes, God is in control. His ways are mysterious. I wonder what He is up to. Meanwhile, take care of your voice.
Oh Dee, I know this is so hard for you. You have stayed on my heart heavy all day–and as I have prayed for healing, I have also asked Him to give you wisdom and the strength to say ‘no’ if you needed to. I know Linda will miss you but would want you better. It is so hard for all of us to think of you sick! Is someone there, waiting on you hand and foot like I wish I could be? 😉
Praying dear Dee–for you and for “Plan B”.
You are so sweet — thanks Elizabeth and Diane. I pray for the team down there.
It’s not as hard to be sick when you don’t have little kids crawling on top of you!
Dee, is resting your voice helping so far? i hope so..have been praying and am so glad how God used your laryngitis to give you a retreat with Him and give you time to write!!!! :)))) He only gives satan enough rope to hang himself. 😉
6. Review Song of Songs 5:2-8 …How is physical sleepiness is similar to spiritual sleepiness?
In both the desire is to be left to oneself…there is a sluggishness, lack of motivation, a lazyness…one doesn’t want to make any efforts, but just to rest, relax and be unbothered. One chooses not to hear what is going around him/her and disengages from his/her surroundings into a sense of solitude.
7. Share your notes.
*You reflect upon the thing that you love; any spare mental thought is consumed with what you love. What one doesn’t dream about is very revealing.
*What she/the bride loves is Him…she isn’t interested in talking of His kindnesses, her interest is in talking about Him.
*Caution…Christians shouldn’t talk about grace too much…as if it is a “thing”…what is really being spoken of is “salvation by Christ in His graciousness”…nothing competes with Christ with us.
*She goes from a strong desire of love to some decline and then she recovers and regains love to once again decline in her affection in a strangeness, distant manner. Her love declines when she doesn’t see Him; she recovers when she sees His contant affection even when whe has been unkind.
*We cannot please Christ better than showing ourselves welcome by cheerfully taking part in His rich provisions. Our duty is to accept Christ’s invitation.
*We will not suffer with Him if we will not feast with Him. If we don’t enjoy and treasure Him, you will not bother suffering for Him…you won’t see it as worth it. You will not suffer with Him if you do not joy with Him.
*Submission, obedience of faith…joying with Christ
*She is the “receiver” before anything else.
*She will only truly love Him if she knows she is loved first. The first thing is to know the love of Christ for yourself.
*We are not constrained in Christ’s love but in our own heart. He is always ready to give…it is us who are not always ready to receive.
I am reading everyone’s comments; this is my first on-line Bible study, so it may take awhile to really get it. praying for u Dee to get well and for you to have a very sweet time with The Lord while resting!!!! I am overwhelmed with so much I am “not getting” yet. I have been a believer since I was 8; I am 54. My drawing a line in the sand concerning my idols of my house being “right” and using food I seriously want to replace!!! I know the shift is happening; however, much more shifting and freedom I believe God is wanting to give. I pray blessings for all of you this evening!!!!!
Praying about doing a 30 day partial fast; basically a healthy way to eat all the time – wrestling with God about it. I know this would be sooooo helpful in turning this area of my life around. If u feel led to pray with me or give feedback, please do so. I believe this could be a huge jump start in my pressing in! Thank you!!
Teresa,
I have been praying for you-but haven’t had time to respond so I am grateful for this time! 🙂 First I want to say I so love the tenderness of your heart-sounds like He is on the move in your heart. :)) Huge! And you are responding..Huge!
The enemy will come in and tell you God will let you sit in your pain as you fast, that you need food again to comfort you, and that because of your wilderness time holding other things as more ultimate than Him, He won’t come to you.
satan will try to get you to doubt His love so be on the alert for spiritual warfare and turn away from the old habits and instead pick up that edifying book or go walking while meditating on verses or listening to Keller sermons! 🙂 Cling to Him over clinging to comfort food. It is painful for a while, but He will come-trust me, You are His and He will NOT let you go no matter how many times you stumble.
You are on the right track so far! I am not sure this will help, but here is what I did:
I didn’t really start out trying to fast-as a matter of fact I didn’t even know I was when I was. 😉 I just wanted Him again and knew that my ‘habits’ were replacing Him, so I gave them up and let Him come in..I don’t know why I was afraid at first, maybe because it is painful to trust Him-I was scared He would let me sit in my pain..I guess like Eunice in Aslan letting Him rip off his skin-but I knew He would come in His Word and in the books I chose.. and He did! 🙂
I think it starts with the will to give up whatever to be with Him because you know He loves you and He is ultimate-it is just letting Him in and turning from the things you ran to that replaced Him. He is more beautiful than a cupcake, or two helpings of food..and much more deeply satisfying.
The ‘fast’ I went through helped me see that politics and food were dust compared to Him and what they offered to me was dust-lack of peace, lonliness, depresion, anxiety, pain, weight gain…compared to what He brought inside me-peace, joy, contentment, amazement at His beauty, excitement of the future, and really just looking at people differently- through His eyes and even redemption of creation..now it is my work whether it be at home, in the kitchen and in the ministry-everything in my life is more and more being centered on Him.
Now this said-things aren’t perfect yet! the foxes still come in my garden, and satan whispers his insidious lies tempting me to run to my approval and comfort idols. I still struggle with the desire to over eat..and I have failed. I still struggle sometimes with approval, although they don’t ‘have me’ or have me blinded like they did before thanks to His rescue!
I apologize for this being so long-but I so hope this can encourage you-I DON’T have it all together..I am right there with you in this as this is a struggle for me too-all I can offer is to encourage you is to watch for the warfare-but cling to Him and that HE WILL COME and make you beautiful like Him. Love to you!
Thank you so much Rebecca! Yesterday was my first day. I made it through by taking many breaks in the day to read, study, pray, and journal. I am rarely sick, but today I cancelled being with my grandbaby due to ear, nose, and throat stuff. Trusting God. I have not yet started studying with all of you. many past studies look soooo good. For now, I want to thank you. Your connection has set the tone for another good day. Bless You!
Tereasa, How wonderful!! Loved to hear about your first day but didn’t like to hear you are sick. 🙁
Lord come to Tereasa today, I ask that you would help her to turn as temptations come to back away from you and run to her idols..help her to trust you today with each step as she lets go and when she struggles remind her of your unquenchable, unchanging Love, comfort her in your Word and help her to sense your presence. In Jesus name.
Rebecca, thank you for taking the time to respond to Tereasa. Your testimony is heart-felt and real. Much of what you say touches me as well. When we turn to the Lord instead of our idols, there is a battle. Satan throws his arrows and never fights fair, but cling to Jesus and HE WILL COME. This is worth printing to read when I get discouraged. Thanks for the encouragement.
Diane, this encouraged me to read how you were encouraged too. I so need to remember these things daily too! 🙂 I still hold dear in my heart what Anne once said on our blog years ago-that we have stones of remembrance and to put them up on our mantle. It so helps me in my daily battles to gaze at Him and to remember how He has rescued me in the past so many times. His love is jealous and fierce, and He will rescue us from the lies of satan-the destruction of our idols with His presence. And in the future Baal will be totally removed from our lips..Right now he is in the process of doing that. :)))