She’s an instructor at Curves.
One of three.
I’ve asked leading questions of all of them
while I was working the machines.
But it was “Sandi” in whom I sensed a little spark.
So it seemed time to have a real conversation about what matters most.
I asked her to lunch.
And so we went — last Wednesday.
Before we were even out of the Curves parking lot, she initiated things, telling me she had really been thinking about one of my questions — and so I asked her if I could tell her my story. She said, “Yes.” And so, before we even arrived at the restaurant, I told her how I had come to believe Jesus was God, and what He meant to me.
When we sat down I told her I sensed a hunger in her. That I wondered if God was wooing her.
She said, “I don’t mean to make you feel badly — but I don’t think you can fix the emptiness in me over lunch.”
I nodded. We ordered our salads. She was quiet, and I waited, wanting to hear whatever it was that was keeping her from Christ.
She had some of the usual objections. I had them once too. I don’t think you can live in this world and not have these questions because you hear them all the time. She said:
- I don’t like it when people think they know the way to heaven or imply that the other religions are wrong.
- What about the people who never hear about Jesus?
I listened. I shared some of the things that Keller says in the wonderful message you will hear this week. Good truths I’ve heard before but expressed in fresh ways. Things we need to have in our hearts so we will be ready, as Peter says, to explain the hope that is within us. Oh — we’ll feel awkward — and we’ll stumble — especially if we care deeply about the person to whom we are speaking. When I’m with my sister Bonnie I get as quivery as jello — it’s just so important to me that she hear and understand — even though I know that is not up to me ultimately.
One of my all time favorite CD’s is Sara Grove’s Conversations, and the leading song describes exactly how tongue-tied I can get when I talk about what matters most. This is a good You-tube version:
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QVykEC1VIs
This is the chorus of “Conversations:”
I would like to share with you what makes me complete.
I don’t claim to have found the Truth, but I know it has found me. . .
the only thing that isn’t meaningless to me is Jesus Christ and and way he set me free.
This is all that I have. This is all that I am
I love the line: “I don’t claim to have found the Truth, but I know it has found me…”
That’s how it is. I didn’t know if Jesus was wooing Sandi or not, but I thought He might be.
I do know that without Him we are SO blind. One of her objections shocked me, and I knew she had it because the blindfold was still in place. She said:
It doesn’t seem right to me that, at the end of my life,
if I have refused to be forgiven by Jesus, that I go to hell.
I asked,
But wouldn’t you be so thankful that there is a way to be forgiven?
When I dropped her off, back at Curves, she said “I’m sorry to have this time end.” I thought You are not shutting down. He must be wooing you. And Saturday, when I went in, she had a gift for me.
Somehow I think I’m not the only one sowing seeds — somehow I think that beneath the dark soil, a little seed might be germinating. Life might be coming…
I hope you’ll take copious notes on the Keller message to prepare you for “conversations.” A few of the things I remember are:
NO OTHER FOUNDER OF ANY RELIGION
MAKES THE CLAIMS JESUS MADE
WHO DOES HE SAY THAT HE IS?
THE GREAT I AM
HE DIDN’T HAVE A BEGINNING
HE WAS WITH GOD, CREATING THE WORLD
HE MADE THE SEAS
AND ALL THAT SWIM WITHIN
HE SAYS OUTLANDISH THINGS SUCH AS
I KEEP SENDING PROPHETS AND WISE MEN TO YOU
AND YOU KEEP KILLING THEM
HIS CLAIMS ARE ASTOUNDING
AS R. C. SPROUL THUNDERS:
HE COMES AS THE DOOR
He comes as the Resurrection.
He comes as the Light.
He comes as the Way, and the Truth, and the Life.
He comes as the Good Shepherd.
He comes as the Vine.
He is the One who before Abraham was, is.
The passage we are studying this week is one of the richest in all of Scripture. It’s so rich that I long for you to take extra time. One reason people fast a meal during Lent is to give themselves extra time with the Lord. Consider that if you are pressed for time.
Not only does it explore the fascinating question, “Who does Jesus say He is?” but the frightening but important truth that so many who think they have found the way may, indeed, not have found the way.
I’ll share more about this in the Bible study lesson — a thought that is swirling and swirling around in me — and which I long to have a conversation with you, my dear sisters who are seeking the truth.
SUNDAY/MONDAY: ICE-BREAKERS
1. What stands out to you from the above, and why?
2. Can you think of a moment in your life when you began to realize that Jesus might be God — not just a prophet — but God? If so, what do you remember?
3. Report on your Lenten discipline. I am going to suggest that this week your discipline be doing all of this lesson! But walk in His Spirit.
Bible Study: Monday – Wednesday
This is the fierce argument the Pharisees have with Jesus and it is dense truth — so go slowly during this holy Lenten week. I’m suggesting two Keller sermons: one for 2.50 and one free sermon. Hopefully you can listen to both, for I would hate to have you miss the one that is entitled I Am The I Am. The second one supplements, but goes into a bit more detail about the question swirling about in my mind, and which I had when I talked to Sandi. The Pharisees were in bondage, but they couldn’t see it. They thought they were saved, but they weren’t. How many people who think they are Christians, are even in Bible teaching churches, are deceived, and are not really saved? Here are the big questions: If you are religious to feel good about yourself — if you are doing Bible study, giving to the poor, and going to church — all to feel good about yourself, but not loving God — is it possible you are not saved, even if you can explain the gospel? That question has been swirling about in me, and continues as I read this passage and listen to these sermons. And here’s another one. Is there a danger in issuing an invitation that is more on the basis of what you will get from God than on who He is? Keller has said that we should confront idols right off the bat. These are the questions swirling in my mind.We’ll take them up at the end — so please get to the end!
I am so thankful for this group. The very fact that you are doing the lessons and listening to the sermons without getting a lot of praise for doing so is evidence to me that we have true seekers of God here. How you bless me!
Let’s do the lesson — and then contemplate these hard questions. Ask God to help us all!
It’s the Festival of Lights. Jesus is in the Temple surrounded by candles, and He astounds them all as He claims:
I AM the Light of the World.
Background for sermon passage
1. Read the dynamite of John 8:12-20.
A. Describe the debate.
B. Who does Jesus think He is? Find several astounding statements and comment on them. (Go slowly.)
2. Read John 8:21-30
A. Find evidence for blindfolds on the Pharisees.
B. What does He tell them they have to do to be saved and how do they respond? (vs. 24-25)
C. What do you think He means by verse 28? (I’m asking because I am puzzled. Does He mean some of them will believe?)
3. Read John 8:31-38
They are trusting in the fact that they are “offspring” of Abraham. Yet what evidence does Jesus give that they are not saved?
4. Read John 8:39-47
A. Our father is either Satan or God. Find characteristics of each family.
B. Why does Jesus say they do not believe? (vs. 43) What does this mean?
C. Keller says the real hesitancy to Christ is moral rather than intellectual. People don’t want to give up what they think is freedom. Do you agree with Keller?
D. Give an example of how a surrender to God in any area of your life led to real freedom. Several of you last week: Chris, Rebecca, Anne, Elizabeth, Pollyanna — more — commented on your increasing awareness of God’s goodness. This, I believe, is what helps us surrender. Eager for testimonies!
5. Read John 8:48-59
A. Trace the debate — the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation
49-51 response
52-53 accusation
54-56 response
57 accusation
58 response
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.”
C. How did the Pharisees respond? Why, do you think?
Thursday/Friday (The sermon, or if possible sermons)
The main sermon is 2.50 (I think I promised no more than 10 this Lent, so may have reached my promise limit. But this one is so key I’d hate to have you miss it. However, if you really can’t afford it, the supplemental one covers some of the same issues, but is on a different passage. )
The first link is to the 2.50 sermon entitled I AM the I AM.
http://sermons.redeemer.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=17296&ParentCat=6
6. Give us your notes, and as you write them, think of how you might make these statements when you have “conversations” with unbelievers.
7. He also addresses how it is so easy to trust in religion instead of God. What notes do you have?
Supplemental Sermon: How To Find The Way http://sermons2.redeemer.com/sermons/how-find-way
8. If you listened to this, write down key points.
9. Would love your input on the questions swirling in my head:
A. If you are religious to feel good about yourself — if you are doing Bible study, giving to the poor, and going to church — all to feel good about yourself, but not loving God — is it possible you are not saved, even if you can explain the gospel?
B. Is there a danger in issuing an invitation that is more on the basis of what you will get from God than on who He is? If so, how would that impact your evangelistic conversations?
Saturday:
10. What’s your take-a-way for the week and why?
484 comments
I went to Lent Service at church tonight. I almost didn’t go because I was in the middle of a question here and didn’t want to get too far behind. Guess what the message was on??!!!! I AM – Jesus and the Pharisees/Sanhedrin, I AM – Moses and the burning bush. Last hymn was “I Surrender All.”
God’s love and faithfulness “soaked in” to me some time ago; I’ve trusted Him and surrendered out of desperation because my way wasn’t working. But now, this week especially, I’m more aware of God’s greatness, His glory, and His power, of surrendering to Him because of who He is.
Love it when the same Spirit says the same thing.
Great testimony, Renee.
5. Read John 8:48-59
A. Trace the debate — the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation: “you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed”
49-51 response: “I am not possessed by a demon” “ I honor my Father and you dishonor me.” “whoever obeys my word will never see death”
52-53 accusation: What you said confirms you’re demon possessed. Abraham and the prophets died, and you think you’re greater than they were??
54-56 response: My Father is God; He’s the one who glorifies me. Even though you say you know Him, you really don’t. And your father Abraham?? Well, he’s on my side, too!
57 accusation: Now we know you’re nuts; you’re not old enough to have seen Abraham.
58 response: “before Abraham was born, I am!”
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.”
Jesus is eternal and omnipotent. He didn’t have to reach the ripe old age of 50 to know Abraham 🙂
C. How did the Pharisees respond? They picked up stones to stone him. Why, do you think? They were in a rage; they couldn’t outsmart I AM. Jesus “pulled the rug out from under them.” They had confidence in their knowledge and lineage. But Jesus has always existed, He was with the godly people in their lineage. It reminds me of when someone is name-dropping, but the name they are dropping is that of my good friend.
I can recall a couple conversations I’ve had when someone got VERY angry with me (and at the time, I couldn’t quite understand why). Here’s one: A long time ago, a professional (acting in the role of her profession) gave me some advice in an area in which she did not have expertise. I told her that I disagreed with her advice, but I didn’t go into great detail. Later she learned that I had a degree and professional/legally binding credentials in the area in which she had given me advice. Then she confronted me, and she was angry. It’s easy for some to talk with confidence about topics they don’t know much about! But they feel exposed when they recognize that someone else may have seen through their “authority.” Multiply that experience times a zillion… I think the Pharisees’ hypocrisy was exposed. They either had to submit to Jesus’ authority or kill Him; there was no “half-way.”
D. Give an example of how a surrender to God in any area of your life led to real freedom. Several of you last week: Chris, Rebecca, Anne, Elizabeth, Pollyanna — more — commented on your increasing awareness of God’s goodness. This, I believe, is what helps us surrender. Eager for testimonies!
This is hard….good and bad things happen all the time in our lives. Are all the good things from God and all the bad things are from Satan? No. I believe God supplies “bad” events just like the good ones. He is teaching us when these things occur. I do know that when I am “in tune” with Him, my life is in sync. Things fall into place and are easier. The flow is there. When I am not engaged with Him everything seems harder and I feel like I am fighting an uphill battle.
Right now my children and husband are all struggling in their lives. My daughter made it through school and is waiting for graduation, but can’t find a job. She tried hard right when she finished school and now seems to have given up. This makes me sad, but I don’t know what to do to help her. I try not to think about it too much because I want to believe God has a plan and it is just not what I expect the plan to be. It is frustrating though because she just sits home everyday doing nothing. Because she isn’t very smart, I feel sad for her and begin to worry that she will never amount to anything. But, I can’t believe that God made her for nothing. That would be a waste, right? Maybe he is trying to humble her; she can be quite stubborn. It’s just difficult when you don’t know the answer and don’t know how to help.
I am continuing to believe that God knows what he wants for Sarah and I just have to stay out of the picture. That’s the hard part, wanting to fix the problem.
My son wrecked a car a couple of weeks ago and we are having to juggle rides with the family. Praise God he wasn’t hurt and the other person wasn’t hurt. Our car isn’t covered by insurance but the other one was (it was my sons fault). The damage was extensive; $3500. We don’t really have that money, but we will charge it and my son will pay us back. I think he is going through a period of learning that we are really good people, not mean old parents, and that us fun to watch. I am having to help my husband stay calm (he is a financial controller and really stresses over the money thing often), but we are all working together and everything is working out. This is God I’m sure. Last night my son took out my telescope and was looking at Jupiter, Venus, and Mars. He was really intent on getting the scope working right and enjoyed showing us. We had a family event! It’s been a very long time since that happened because he was too busy running around trying to leave us (a runaway at 16, a high school drop out, etc). I’m glad we are here for him, our prodigal son, and he is open to having us help him. God is good.
Oops….my surrender to God is with my children 🙂
Sounds like your son is responding to your love — may that continue! Lord, please help him to pay off his debt and see his parents’ love. We put Sarah in Your hands.
Laura, you are being very wise with your children. One of the things that God has been showing me is that one of the greatest ways I can please and honor Him is to trust Him with my children. He has spoken to me deeply about worry over ‘what ifs’. It seems to sometimes take prodigal years to really seal a heart to Him. I know it did for me.
My oldest son is 27 and addicted to computer games. Somehow it happened when he was a teen. He has struggled with it since then. He stayed ‘on the wagon’ the whole time he was in undergrad. He told me once that for him it is just like alcohol is for some people in that it calms him and helps him to center himself. Well he is ‘off the wagon now’ and he is completely changed. He does nothing but go to work and play that game. I have a sense that the Lord is asking me to leave him to Him. There isn’t really much I can say and even if he did muster strength against it, he would not have true healing. I keep thinking of the parable of the man who swept his house clean only to leave room for 7 more evil spirits. I am praying that he see how miserable he is in this because the power of it is increasing in his life. Only God can free him and I pray that he will see that.
Dee, if you or anyone else has wisdom to share about this I would love to hear it. I think I am hearing from the Lord in this but I don’t want to be mistaken and foolish. This is probably the last months we have with him because he plans to go to law school in the fall. He is just not with us at all. Maybe I will try to talk to him about that.
I just read this, Anne, and want to say that you have my sympathy. I think a lot of children and young adults have this same computer addiction problem. With some it is extreme and with some less so. I have two sons who are now in their early 30s who spend a LOT of their spare time on the computer and “gaming”. I don’t have any answers, just that I understand your worry about “This is probably the last months we have with him because he plans to go to law school in the fall. He is just not with us at all.” They seem to be in another world and are not communicative with those around them so much of the time when they are absorbed with their games, like nothing Real mattered, just their fantasy world.
I’ll pray with you as you try to communicate your concerns with your son.
Diane, thank you so much for your prayers
I just read this Anne. Sorry to not get to it earlier.
Wow, isn’t it sad how the computer thing has taken over our lives? My 26 year old (I know I haven’t talked much about him; lives in Oklahoma) is also a “gamer.” It must be that age group. I guess I would be concerned if he didn’t have a job, but said he does, right? The other key factor here is that he actually pit it away when he was in college. That is huge, I think. That and the fact he knows he has a problem and if real work needs to get done then He must give it up. Does he say he will when he goes to law school? I understand that it is an addiction. It is all consuming, and can ruin lives. It is sad. Does he have a girlfriend? That would definitely help 🙂 girls usually aren’t into the gaming thing as much, and they are a distraction!
Does he live with you? Maybe you could make a deal with him about spending more time with you. You could tell him you know you won’t ever get to spend time with him when he gets to law school, so you are asking him to give you a few hours each week because you miss spending time with him. Maybe he could commit to dinner every night or every other night? That’s when we get our talking done.
I will pray for you and your son. It is the hardest thing to watch them go through hard times (and sometimes they don’t know what they are missing). I barely see Sarah anymore. She is always out with the girl who lives with us; over at her house. I am going to remain faithful that God knows the best for Sarah and it may be entirely different than what I want or need.
This was a big release for me.
D. Give an example of how a surrender to God in any area of your life led to real freedom. Several of you last week: Chris, Rebecca, Anne, Elizabeth, Pollyanna — more — commented on your increasing awareness of God’s goodness. This, I believe, is what helps us surrender. Eager for testimonies! – For me I would have to say my surrender to God was my son Kyle. We were constantly at odds with each other and I could not control him. He was getting in trouble, ended up in juvenile detention for 3 days, and oh, how that broke my heart. I was always worrying about him and stressed out I finally just cried out to God and said take him he’s yours. I will do what I have to do as a mother but no more. I taught him right from wrong and if he chooses to do wrong, it is not my problem any more. Lord you just watch over him and keep him safe. Well that was so releasing like a ton of bricks were lifted off of me. Our relationship was still strained until he turned 18 and went into the Army. He texted me 2 days into basic training apologizing saying how sorry he was and that his 2 roommate were Christians and they prayed with him and he rededicated his life to the Lord. Oh how our God is in control.
5. Read John 8:48-59
A. Trace the debate — the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation – The Jews accused Jesus of being a Samaritan and demon possessed.
49-51 response – Jesus told them that he was not possessed by a demon but was honoring His Father. That he was not trying to praise himself, but His Father does want praise and judges. He also told them that if they believed in Him they would not see death.
52-53 accusation – Again the Jews accuse Jesus of being possessed and question him on how no one will see death if they believe but yet Abraham and the prophets died.
54-56 response Jesus told them that if he glorifies himself it is worthless but His Father glorifies him who they claim is their Father but they don’t know him. He also told them that Abraham was glad to see Jesus day come.
57 accusation – The Jews yelled you are not yet 50 but you say you have seen Abraham.
58 response – He again tried explaining who he was and that “He Was The I Am” before Abraham existed.
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.” – To me this is saying that Jesus was already created in Gods plan before Abraham even came in existence.
C. How did the Pharisees respond? Why, do you think? – They lost it by what Jesus was saying that they picked up stones to throw at Jesus. I think they did this because they were afraid of what they thought was a demon possessed man and did not want any part of it.
Julie — I had to do that with a child and know how hard it is. But the Lord did a mighty rescue.
Julie, I also turned my youngest over to the Lord and he now tells me that was when the Lord broke through. Thanks for sharing. Love how God provided Godly roommates.
Julie, thanks for sharing this testimony.
A. Trace the debate — the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation- they ask if Jesus is a Samaritan, if he has a demon
49-51 response- I like the Message here;
John 8:49-51 Jesus said, “I’m not crazy. I simply honor my Father, while you dishonor me.
50 I am not trying to get anything for myself. God intends something gloriously grand here and is making the decisions that will bring it about. 51 I say this with absolute confidence. If you practice what I’m telling you, you’ll never have to look death in the face
52-53 accusation- Now we know you have a demon, Abraham died, the prophets died, you are claiming to be greater than they, Who do think you are?
54-56 response- The God you claim is your father, will glorify (To give glory, honor, or high praise to; exalt.) me, You don’t know Him, I do, if I claim not to, I will be a liar like you are. The Message again; John 8:56 Abraham–your ‘father’–with jubilant faith looked down the corridors of history and saw my day coming. He saw it and cheered.”
57 accusation- You are not even 50 yet, you SAW Abraham?!?
58 response- The Message; John 8:58 “Believe me,” said Jesus, “I am who I am long before Abraham was anything.”
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.” That Christ pre-existed Abraham, that He was GOD
C. How did the Pharisees respond?- They tried to stone him.
Why, do you think? Some Because they were blind to the truth & and felt that they should execute judgment on His blasphemy, I really do think Renee was onto something when she said that some of them felt exposed in their hypocrisy, They understood clearly what Jesus was claiming, either they had to lay down their pride and submit or find a way to get rid of Him.
Background for sermon passage
1. Read the dynamite of John 8:12-20.
A. Describe the debate.
The debate begins when Jesus makes the claim, “I am the light of the world…”
The Pharisees immediately respond, “You are bearing witness of Yourself, Your witness is not true, or valid.”
The debate centers around a law, found in Deuteronomy, that “One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime…a matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses”. (19:15) In another passage, Deut. 17:6, the law states that no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.
Apparently, the Pharisees also required that to make a claim about oneself, as in to be the Messiah, or, as Jesus was claiming actually to be God, that one needed one or two more witnesses to support the claim.
Jesus tells them that even if He is the only witness (of Himself), it is valid, because He knows where He came from – again He claims equality with God. He really angers them when He reminds them of their own law; “Even in your law it has been written, that the testimony of two men is true” – and then says, in effect, I have my two witnesses – I am one and My Father is the other.
The Pharisees ignore that and say, “Where is Your Father?”
B. Who does Jesus think He is? Find several astounding statements and comment on them.
Jesus is claiming to be God.
I am the light of the world – the light of life.
– light is the opposite of darkness. Light represents all that is good, holy, pure,
sinless, untainted, unspoiled, true, right. We need sunlight to sustain life on
earth. We need Jesus, the light of life, to give us spiritual life.
My witness is true
– there is no deceit found in Him. He is “above” the Law because He is THE LAWGIVER
and perfectly fulfills every letter of the Law.
My judgement is true
I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me
– this is a claim that He and God the Father together are One as the fair and just
Judge of all mankind – what He says is final.
I am He who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me
– Jesus doesn’t need man to affirm to Him, or anyone else, who He is
If you knew Me, you would know My Father also
– again, Jesus implies coequality, oneness with God. Jesus is the image of His Father
in every way, just like we say that a son or daughter has traits of their parents.
2. Read John 8:21-30
A. Find evidence for blindfolds on the Pharisees.
They don’t understand when Jesus tells them He is going away to a place where they cannot come – they speculate that He may be talking about suicide.
Jesus tells them that they are “of this world”. He says that unless they believe that “I am He (I AM WHO I AM) they will die in their sins. Now He had just said “I AM”, and they
ask “Who are You?” Jesus says what have I been telling you from the very beginning? They had heard Him teach and observed His miracles and yet their eyes were still closed/blinded.
“They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father”. (verse 27)
B. What does He tell them they have to do to be saved and how do they respond? (vs. 24-25)
They must believe that Jesus is God. They must put their faith and trust in Him that what He is saying about Himself is true. They just keep asking Him “Who are You?” They are unwilling to accept His words.
C. What do you think He means by verse 28? (I’m asking because I am puzzled. Does He mean some of them will believe?)
Jesus says, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He (lit. I AM)…”
Well, in verse 30, it says “many came to believe in Him”. But looking forward to the crucifixion, my opinion is that when those who were there watched Jesus die, some may have had their eyes opened, and believed. There is this passage in Zechariah 12:10:
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on Me, the One they have pierced, and they will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn son.”
Also, after Jesus was crucified and raised, at Pentecost, in Act 2, Peter gives his great speech where he tells those listening, “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge, and YOU, WITH THE HELP OF WICKED MEN, PUT HIM TO DEATH BY NAILING HIM TO THE CROSS.” (verses 22-23)
Then in verse 37, it says, “When the people heard this, THEY WERE CUT TO THE HEART AND SAID TO PETER AND THE OTHER APOSTLES, BROTHERS WHAT SHALL WE DO?” Peters says to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. It says about 3000 believed that day.
Could some of those in the crowd that day be the ones who argued and debated with Jesus? It’s possible. In their hearts, they can now see the whole picture, as Peter gives it to them, and look back on the One they “lifted up” on the Cross.
Susan, appreciate your digging deeper into this. Learning a lot! Great news that many believed when they finally got it that He was the Son of God.
3. Read John 8:31-38
They are trusting in the fact that they are “offspring” of Abraham. Yet what evidence does Jesus give that they are not saved?
Jesus says the proof of being His disciple is “if you hold to my teaching”. In other words, believe what I say and do what I say. They are not doing that in this passage.
Jesus shows them that they are still slaves to sin, and a slave is not a member of the family. He points out the fact that they are seeking to kill Him, because “you have no room for My word”. He tells them that while He tells them about things that He has seen in the Father’s presence, “you do what you have heard from your father”.
4. Read John 8:39-47
A. Our father is either Satan or God. Find characteristics of each family.
Abraham demonstrated by his life that he was in God’s family. Some of those characteristics of Abraham are described in Romans 4.
– against all hope, Abraham in hope believed
– he did not weaken in his faith, even though all the evidence was against him
– he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God
– he was fully persuaded that God had power to do what He had promised
– he did not earn his salvation – God credited it to him as righteousness and this is
for us, too, “to whom God will credit righteousness – for us who believe in Him who
raised Jesus our Lord from the dead”.
Jesus says that if we are Abraham’s (and God’s) children, we will do the things Abraham did.
If we are God’s children, we will love Jesus. We will have an understanding of His Word.
“He who belongs to God hears what God says” – God has opened our ears!
The characteristics of those in Satan’s family are:
unrighteousness, unbelief
murderous thoughts and intentions that may be carried out physically
illegitimate children
no love for the Father or for Jesus His Son
cannot understand the Word of God or cannot accept it as true
spiritual deafness
a desire to carry out things that Satan would want to do – murder, lying
being a habitual liar
B. Why does Jesus say they do not believe? (v. 43) What does this mean?
“Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.”
Yes, they could hear Jesus speaking, but He may as well been speaking a foreign language. Their hearts were hard, closed. They cannot grasp, comprehend, or understand, in a spiritual way, what Jesus is telling them.
Satan has them in his grip, blinding them, making them deaf. But they also bear responsibility for their hard hearts.
C. Keller says the real hesitancy to Christ is moral rather than intellectual. People don’t want to give up what they think is freedom. Do you agree with Keller?
Perhaps even those with great intellect can’t accept Christ because they value their freedom to think for themselves. People give all kinds of excuses and reasons to not believe, but it may all boil down to wanting to live “my life my own way”.
Susan, thanks for expounding on the characteristics of family of God and family of Satan.
Going back to C., I had to quick look up this poem that came to mind as I was thinking about this question. The poem is called “Invictus”. I do not like this poem at all, but I know someone who is an unbeliever who loves it. Once my son had a poetry assignment and he used this poem and had to give some kind of visual to go with it…I told him a picture of a raised fist would go with this poem and that is what he used. The words give me a picture of rebellion, refusing to acknowledge your Creator, insisting that you are in charge, self-reliance.
Invictus by William Ernest Henley
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell cluth of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.
D. Give an example of how a surrender to God in any area of your life led to real freedom. Several of you last week: Chris, Rebecca, Anne, Elizabeth, Pollyanna – more – commented on your increasing awareness of God’s goodness. This, I believe, is what helps us surrender. Eager for testimonies!
Last night we attended my son’s sport’s banquet at school. My daughter was going to stay home with her older brother, but on Tuesday, he told me he had plans for Wed. nite. So when last night came, at the last minute, I brought my daughter, even though we had already purchased 3 tickets, for myself, my husband, and son. It said you had to have a ticket to get in. I was hoping for grace! Anyway, my son was very irritated with me for “why didn’t you tell me and I could have….” and for messing-up in general. Approval/affirmation idol – the approval of my children is easily an “ultimate” thing for me. Usually I would have sunk. But in the car, I talked silently to myself. Does God love me even though I messed-up? If I have His approval, isn’t that all that matters? Yes. (and they gave me an extra ticket!)
Later that evening, I turned to an old sinful habit that I have really struggled with for years. It was a choice I made to do it. But, I stopped. Kim has said she “pleads the blood of Jesus”, and Dee pointed out that’s not a magic formula, but I plead His blood, and what I meant was the power of the gospel that says I do not have to sin, it is a choice. I chose to stop and repent. And that’s freedom – freedom from sin and the guilt and shame that comes afterward. I remembered what Keller said – that I have to see Jesus, look at what He did for me, He died for me, and see how beautiful He is – now what is this sin compared to Him? I don’t want it in my life, I hate it. Jesus died so I wouldn’t have to do it.
Also (sorry this is so long!) praying the other morning, and reading a book that says we have to make sure our hearts are right with God so He will answer our prayers. And I said no, that’s kind of like being the elder brother, “You never gave me so much as a kid to share with my friends!” I told God that I want my heart right with Him because I just want to come into the tent and be with Him! I don’t want anything between us.
Thankful for the extra ticket and how you turned to Him for approval. Turning to Him for approval was also my surrender this week. Love how the power of the gospel leads us to freedom. I also like your earlier comment that He may as well been speaking a foreign language.
Wow Susan — that’s a wonderful story. And I agree with Kim that when we plead the blood of Jesus and mean it, there is power in the blood. There surely was for you.
thanks for your good answers too.
I am doing the lesson, not always posting and doing my best to read all of the comments so that I can learn from and pray for my sisters.
I’m glad Dawn, you’ve been on my mind this week. 🙂
1. Read the dynamite of John 8:12-20.
A. Describe the debate.
Jesus declared His deity as Savior of the world. The Pharisees challenge His authority and His testimony.
B. Who does Jesus think He is? Find several astounding statements and comment on them. (Go slowly.)
Jesus states in vs 12: “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” vs 14 “I know where I came from and where I am going.” vs 19 “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
2. Read John 8:21-30
A. Find evidence for blindfolds on the Pharisees.
vs22 The Pharisees think He is talking about suicide – they don’t know what He is talking about. vs 25 Again, the Pharisees ask “Who are you?” even though Jesus has been telling them.
B. What does He tell them they have to do to be saved and how do they respond? (vs. 24-25)
To be saved, they must believe that He is who He says He is. The Pharisees respond in ignorance, “Who are you?” They haven’t been listening to Him for He had already repeated the answer several times at this point.
C. What do you think He means by verse 28? (I’m asking because I am puzzled. Does He mean some of them will believe?) Or is He saying they will know for certain who He is then – but it will be too late??
3. Read John 8:31-38
They are trusting in the fact that they are “offspring” of Abraham. Yet what evidence does Jesus give that they are not saved? They are acting as sons of Satan rather than as sons of the God of Abraham.
4. Read John 8:39-47
A. Our father is either Satan or God. Find characteristics of each family. Children of God: love God, listen and now the truth. Children of Satan: murder, do not listen or cling to the truth – in fact it says they have no truth in them.
B. Why does Jesus say they do not believe? (vs. 43) What does this mean? “Because you are unable to hear what I say.” I think it means that they are not listening to Him with their heart. They are not seeking Him or His truth.
C. Keller says the real hesitancy to Christ is moral rather than intellectual. People don’t want to give up what they think is freedom. Do you agree with Keller? Will think about this further after listening to the sermon. Initially, I’m thinking there are plenty of people that argue against Christ based on intellectual rather than moral reasoning. I think most people can agree Christ was a ‘good man’.
D. Give an example of how a surrender to God in any area of your life led to real freedom. Several of you last week: Chris, Rebecca, Anne, Elizabeth, Pollyanna — more — commented on your increasing awareness of God’s goodness. This, I believe, is what helps us surrender. Eager for testimonies!
Surrendering my time and money to Him brings me freedom in these very areas – I’m no longer a slave to the stuff when I surrender it all to Him. Then I can live freely in the shelter of His wings.
5. Read John 8:48-59
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.”
He is God – come to us in human flesh, but He has always been – He is the Eternal, Living God.
C. How did the Pharisees respond? Why, do you think? The Pharisees responded with the death threats of casting stones because they did not believe He is who He says He is.
Surrendering time and money and living freely under shelter of His wings! Beautiful.
Love your answer to D.
6. Give us your notes, and as you write them, think of how you might make these statements when you have “conversations” with unbelievers.
I was cooking while listening, so I didn’t take notes. But several statements stood out to me and will give me more confidence in my talks with unbelievers.
Jesus was self-focused in his teaching and outward focused in his living. None of the other people who have claimed to be God can say their living was like Jesus. They all had small movements with followers who basically ruined their lives living under the falsehood of their leaders teaching.
Jehovah is a word Christian translaters came up with by combining Adonai with I AM. Moses wouldn’t write or say the word Yahweh (I AM) because of it’s holiness.
I liked his opening example of going to Barnes and Nobles and hearing the speaker not speak on the subject, but to basically say he existed before time began and that everything pointed to him. That’s how Jesus sounded to his listeners and that led to them questioning if he was demonic.
I will have to re-listen to get all the quotes he used by C.S. Lewis and the others I hadn’t heard of before. Great wisdom!
I loved the Barnes and Noble illustration too
I miss you ladies alot! Love you all!
Miss you, little sis!
5A. Trace the debate — the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation-they called Him a Samaritan and demon possessed.
49-51 response-He denies having a demon and tells them that He honors God, which I think is the reply to being a Samaritan
52-53 accusation-they accuse Him of pretense
54-56 response-He claims that He knows God
57 accusation-that He lied about seeing Abraham
58 response-before Abraham was, I AM
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.” I am not sure but I think it means that He is everything. All things exist in Him. He is eternal. He was never less than He is right now and never will be less. He has no beginning and no end.
C. The Pharisees were enraged and picked up stones to kill Him. I think it was because He confronted and threatened their idols of control, power and approval. I think they had them all, comfort too. He claimed deity and their pride would not accept a lowly carpenter as God over them. They make me think of the term ‘silver tongued devil’. They could probably have argued anyone down, but Jesus did not let them get away with the lies.
I like this, Anne – that the Pharisees would not accept a lowly carpenter as God over them.
I agree (C) – our idols rise up in rage when threatened.
5. Read John 8:48-59
A. Trace the debate – the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation – “You are a Samaritan and demon-possessed”
49-51 response – “I am not possessed by a demon…I honor my Father…I am not seeking
glory for Myself…if anyone keeps My word, he will never see death”
52-53 accusation – “Now we know that You are demon-possessed!…Are You greater than our
father Abraham? Who do You think You are?”
54-56 response – “If I glorify Myself, my glory means nothing…My Father is the One who
glorifies Me. Though you do not know Him, I know Him. If I said I did
not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know HIm and keep His word.
Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was
glad.”
57 accusation – “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham!”
58 response – “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!”
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM”.
I AM is the Hebrew verb “to be”, the name God gave Moses from the burning bush. Jesus is claiming to be I AM WHO I AM, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. The eternal God who had no beginning, who existed before Abraham.
C. How did the Pharisees respond? Why, do you think?
They were ready to stone Him with the stones in their hands. To them, this was the ultimate blasphemy.
5. Read John 8:48-59
A. Trace the debate — the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation – Jesus was a Samaritan and demon possessed.
49-51 response – Jesus replies that he isn’t demon possessed, but honors His father who is the judge of all. He says all who believe will receive eternal life, not death.
52-53 accusation – They believe he is definitely demon possesed after His response. They ask Him if He is greater than their father Abraham. They say He couldn’t be since they, and the profits all died; they didn’t seem to have eternal life as Jesus suggests.
54-56 response – Jesus replies that His glory means nothing; glory goes to His father. He is not s liar, and Abraham waited to see the day of Jesus cone to earth.
57 accusation – How could you see Jesus when you are so young?
58 response – I have been here since before Abraham. I am (the) I am. (I know Keller talks about this making sense to the hebrews, but the whole grammatical thing is killing me here!)
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.”
That He has always existed, and has always been here.
C. How did the Pharisees respond? Why, do you think?
They tried to stone Him. They couldn’t believe He would speak like that. They were trying to stop Him.
Impressed with how many of you are carefully doing the lesson. It’s so rich — good meat for your soul.
6. Give us your notes, and as you write them, think of how you might make these statements when you have “conversations” with unbelievers.
I could be totally wrong so I am thinking outside the box here-just a thought. I think the woman at Curves, (Sandi), view of God might be what she has gotten from Christians in the past-God is merely a Judge and the Christian life is about morality. Seems like we can place more of an emphasis on two things: ‘accepting Christ to avoid Hell and go to heaven’, and that it’s all about living a slavish religiosity-moral life-‘doing’ kind of relationship-when the opposite is true-they are slaves, and we are free! Going to Hell or going to heaven is true, but I think we focus too much on that part. We miss telling them about who He is and why He died-to forgive our sins so that we can be brought into an intimate and secure relationship with GOD-one that is a zillion year assurance of unconditional love-we will never be thrown out when we fail! We miss telling them about Sonship and showing that with our lives.
Maybe this is why we hear people say, well when I am close to death I will pray to receive him-but why won’t they trust Him now? I think one of the reasons are because they think they will have a slavish relationship to him, because they don’t see or hear much about Sonship from us.
Good point, Rebecca. I makes sense that people would want to wait until near death to accept Christ if salvation is only about the after life and they think that being a Christian now in the present is only about “slavish religiosity-moral life”. I wouldn’t want that either. I would rather go out and have “Fun”. Of course, we know that the world’s “fun” is just a lie to entrap you into slavery, but it is a real trap.
Yes I agree, this is a good point. Our message must be well balanced.
Kim and Diane, I don’t know if I made much sense-that is why typing it out can be difficult as it may come across wrong. 🙂
I think Dee ‘s example is great in how she shared with Sandi-you have to ask questions to find out where they are at first then go from there. I also think at some point we really need to find out who they think Jesus is and again just go from there also-helping them see He is God is crucial in my opinion and as Keller said, it is all over Scripture.
I want to thank so much all you women who prayed and encouraged me about my Bible Study Tea yesterday. We had a wonderful time. We spent Wednesday afternoon decorating the basement room with bird and spring flower and china tea pots and cups, and so on. We set each table with good china tea cups and plates, silver spoons and bird centerpieces. We had oodles of fun and laughter. We had 30 ladies at the Tea and lots of laughter, as well as some more serious moments. We had a few giveaways including a gift certificate for a manicure, and a free copy of Ann Voskamp’s “A Thousand Gifts”. Everyone is saying how much they enjoyed it.
As for my “Talk”, I felt it went well. I felt the Lord’s leading in the preparation, though it took a LOT of time. I really have not had much response to it. One lady said it was really good, when I saw her at choir practice last evening. I prefer these “later” comments, because it means they have been “thinking” about what I said. My approval idol wishes there would be more affirmation, but I know I did it as an offering to the Lord so I am praying that the Lord’s message was heard, even if I hear nothing more.
Anyway, it is in the Lord’s hands. Overall, the Tea was a smashing success based on my overall evaluation. The women all put their hands together, contributed, worked hard and all the guests seemed to enjoy it. I think they will be talking about it for days in this small church.
So glad, Diane.
Oh Dianne — we would have loved being there listening to you. Can you give us a synopsis?
Yes, Diane–we would love to hear more of your talk! I love that you moved (WAY) past your hesitance towards hospitality and gave such a beautiful offering to Him–wow.
Haven’t tried doing a synopsis since high school but here goes. Hard to know what to leave out. Sorry for the length.
Synopsis of my message “A Princess in Need of Rescue”:
We all dream about being a princess with a handsome prince coming to sweep us off our feet. But then, sooner or later, Tragedy strikes. Dreams shatter. Beauty fades (or we never felt beautiful to begin with).
The real world is unsympathetic to our dreams and needs, even cruel. Sometimes life feels like a prison.
What if what we think is the cruel real world is really just a shadow land (C.S. Lewis)? What if the Eden God created at the beginning of the world really is how life should be and will be again? What if behind the pain and hurt is a spiritual world of true love and happy endings that we can catch glimpses of even now, and will become permanent soon?
Eden, a perfect garden paradise, was God’s original plan for earth. Then the Tyrant (Satan disguised as a snake) slithered into the Eden’s garden and convinced the original prince and princess to disobey God. Their sin plunged them, and the whole of creation, into the Tyrant’s darkness, sin and death.
However, ever since then, God has been planning our Rescue. He wants things back like Eden again.
“The Lord…has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners.” You may feel like you’re broken-hearted, you’re captive, a prisoner to darkness.
How does Jesus rescue the captives, and release the prisoners? He died on the Cross for. Essentially, God’s Only Son sacrificed His sinless life to pay the price for our sin-stained life so that we could become acceptable to Holy God and enter into real life. Only Jesus can do that for us. We cannot rescue ourselves.
If you do not know Jesus yet and received the gift of His life offered for you on the Cross – a gift you cannot earn or deserve or be born into – and the power of His resurrection that strips us from our prison clothes and covers us in robes of righteousness, do not wait another day. Accepting Jesus’ gift for us opens our eyes to the Real Unshadowed world God offers.
“For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.” Colossians 1:13-14 (NIV)
If you have received his gift of life, to Him you are forgiven. God sees you as Beautiful, Redeemed and Loved.
However, though Jesus has brought Light to the world, we still live in a sin-stained world, a shadow land. There are many unhappy endings here on earth. All our days are mixed with struggle. God within us wages endless war with Satan who hates God’s joy.
One day our future with Christ will be glorious in his new heaven and earth. His final rescue will be more magnificent than we could imagine.
Psalm 45 expresses God coming for His bride (you as his precious princess bride).
3 Gird your sword on your side, you mighty one;
clothe yourself with splendor and majesty. …
6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; …
11 Let the king be enthralled by your beauty;
honor him, for he is your lord. …
13 All glorious is the princess within her chamber;
her gown is interwoven with gold.
14 In embroidered garments she is led to the king; …
15 Led in with joy and gladness,
they enter the palace of the king.
Jesus, our Knight in Shining Armor, will return. I know, I know, we love a Cinderella story. Well, He is our Prince! Isaiah 51:11 says, “Those the LORD has rescued will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.”
Oh DIANE!!! This is beautiful–so powerful! Love this especially: “What if the Eden God created at the beginning of the world really is how life should be and will be again? What if behind the pain and hurt is a spiritual world of true love and happy endings that we can catch glimpses of even now, and will become permanent soon?”
Dee, I’m thinking between this and Chris’s powerful testimony, it’s time to begin writing “The Stonecutter II” 😉
Diane,
You did a wonderful job presenting the gospel. I especially like how you don’t “sugarcoat” it – you are honest about we still live in a fallen world with many unhappy endings. Our hope is for the day He will make everything new again.
Wonderful Diane!
WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS?-
He was addressing people who believed
2 enormous claims
1) I CAN SET YOU FREE
They thought they were spiritually free
We are Abraham’s descendants, the followers of Biblical religion, we are good, moral religious
Jesus says to be religious & moral is slavery just as much as irreligious & immoral
Slave & son in an estate, both obey, both live in the home, yet utterly different, the slave fears if he doesn’t perform he can be thrown out or beaten. The son has an assurance of unconditional love.
Come to the Father through me, or you will remain slaves
I come not to change your behaviors but your status, moving you from slavery to sonship.
2) KEEP MY WORD AND YOU WILL NOT SEE DEATH, I CAN SET YOU FREE
Who do you think you are?
Many have been raised in a narrow, restricting, crushing, smothering, religion. That’s not the relationship that Jesus is talking about.
Pharisees lived a self imposed slavery
Abraham rejoiced to see MY day- important statement, all the prophets spoke about “The Day”
Psalm 96, the return of the Lord ‘The Day”
Christ claims this as his own, “MY Day” MY coming is THE coming
They try to laugh him off as if he is saying he somehow was naturally alive when Abraham was.
Before Abraham was I AM- you don’t understand ME
They explode- they try to stone Him- He is calling himself by the greatest & highest expression of divine self reference, a profound revelation of who God is- uncaused self-existent, I am self determined, I depend on nothing and no one.
Everything that exists depends on me, I have no beginning, I am transcendent above the universe, I have no beginning & no ending
Revelation to the heart, when God spoke this name from the burning bush, Yahweh, this was the covenant name, an intimate name, Moses & his descendants refused to pronounce spell or write this name.
Jehovah, was an accident, when transcribed
Jesus says he is I AM he takes Yahweh onto Himself
They stone him because it is the penalty for blasphemy
He didn’t just say He was God, He was taking the most transcendent concept of God and saying that’s ME
WHO DO THEY THINK HE IS?-
They never say He is a great teacher
Imagine a human saying I am ultimate reality I always existed I created the world, I hold you together, your relationship with me will determine where you spend eternity
They think He is demonic
He is demonic or divine- there is no middle ground
He is trying to get us off the fence
Crown me or kill me
Make Me the center of your life or hate me and do everything you can to stamp out my memory
M. Scott Peck; “I was absolutely thunderstruck by the extraordinary reality of
the man I found in the Gospels. I discovered a man who was almost continually frustrated…. I also discovered a man
who was frequently sad and sometimes depressed, frequently anxious and scared…. A man who was terribly, terribly
lonely, yet often desperately needed to be alone. I discovered a man so incredibly real that no one could have made
Him up. [T]he Jesus of the Gospels—who some suggest is the best-kept secret of Christianity—did not have much
‘peace of mind,’ as we ordinarily think of peace of mind in the world’s terms, and insofar as we can be His followers,
perhaps we won’t either. It occurred to me then that if the Gospel writers had been into PR and embellishment, as I had assumed, they would have created the kind of Jesus three quarters of Christians still seem to be trying to create . . . portrayed with a sweet, unending smile on His face, patting little children on the head, just strolling the earth with this unflappable, unshakable equanimity. .. . But the Jesus of the Gospels—–who some suggest is the best-kept secret of Christianity—–did not have much “peace of mind,” as we ordinarily think of peace of mind in the world’s terms, and insofar as we can be His followers, perhaps we won’t either.”
Hardly anyone wants to call Him demonic, but hardly anyone wants to call Him Lord and center of their lives
People try to say that the passages where Jesus claims to be God were later insertions, read the Bible and try to take those out they are ubiquitous
Only God can forgive sins, when Jesus says your sins are forgiven he is saying all your sins are against me.
He claims again & again to be THE SON of God, In ancient times saying I am the only son of God meant he was claiming to be only unique inheriting everything son implies He was = with God
I keep sending you prophets & wise men
I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning
If he is not God he can’t promise me total forgiveness, He can’t go to prepare a place for me
If He is not God, the crucifixion should destroy my faith in God, a wonderful man who had done all these good deeds who was abandoned by God. This is cruelty and we should get rid of such a God
If He IS God the cross is self sacrifice, God entering into our suffering and the injustice & the evil of this world
There is nothing in the middle
The only people who actually saw what He was and did, either sought to have Him killed or had their lives so transformed that they turned the world upside down.
They made Him number 1 in their lives or else they went after Him (to kill him), these are the only options
He sought that- He wanted it
Those hostile and angry at him have heard him and might believe, there is more hope for them than for those who are ambivalent.
WHO DO I THINK HE IS?-
Sitting straddle on a fence hurts too much to stay that way
Skeptics- I like Jesus but don’t like the church & Christianity, with good reasons
Jesus was a great teacher, this is a fantasy. Look at the wisdom of his teaching, look at the beauty of His life, His teaching is egocentric, but His life is not.
No other egocentric leader has sustained a movement or following, they turned their followers into stupid lemmings.
Jesus followers were Jews, the last people on earth who would be apt to accept that a human being could be God. He transformed their lives into such beauty & bravery, love & self sacrifice that they turned the world upside down
Egocentric teachers always have egocentric lives, they are insecure, they abuse people they are hypocrites
But Jesus teaching was the most egocentric teacher and yet had the most incredible life, strength without harshness, humility without insecurity, tenderness without compromise, conviction without condescension.
P.T. Forsyth;
“If God is not like Jesus, He is less than the God we crave for and we need. When we look at Jesus Christ we see the holy love that deserves to be Almighty”
Could a demon love like this, teach like this, change his followers like this?
A lot of Christians are on the fence, facing Jesus when only when in trouble, but won’t throw yourselves at His feet and call him GOD.
TAKE THE LIMITS OFF OF YOUR ALLEGIANCE
Bible teacher illustration- “ If the distance between the earth and the sun (93 million miles) was reduced to the distance between a sheet of paper, The distance between the earth and the nearest star would be a stake of paper 70 feet high. The diameter of the galaxy would be a stack of paper 310 miles high. Yet the galaxy is nothing but a speck of dust in a whole universe and the Bible says that Jesus Christ holds the universe in his hand or with his pinky. Then she asked this question. “Is this the kind of person that you ask into your life to be your assistant?”
Christmas means into your life comes GOD so get rid of your tiny ambitions
Get rid of the idea that you can tell Him what He should be doing
Say command me, make Him number 1 or He shouldn’t be there at all
Great notes, Chris S. These are keepers for later reference. Thanks especially for the quotes.
Wonderful notes!
The Bible teacher was Elisabeth Elliot — sometimes he mentions her by name, but I imagine she is a little controversial in New York too.
In response to how this message might help me talk with an unbeliever, I hope I will be bold and articulate the truths in the sermon in love, pushing the hearer to see that they can’t just think of Jesus as a really nice guy and comfort themselves with thoughts of heaven at funerals. To help them see the proper response to Christ is to surrender all.
Even more so perhaps for people who are struggling under heavy load of moralism, thinking Jesus is on their side, sort of like the Pharisees working so hard, when all that is necessary is belief.
It is hard for them to acknowledge that they have no righteousness of their own, all that work was meaningless, they have to say ‘I am no better than these sinners?’
If I believe and believe He is God, and that HE loves ME acts of selfless service will follow out of love, not duty
I thought of this from another of our lessons, If I believe God loves me less when I fail, when I disappoint him, on what basis do I believe he loved me in the first place?
I love these!
Take the limits off of your allegiance
Get rid of tiny ambitions
He needs to be number one or not at all
Just finished listening to Keller’s sermon, I Am the I Am. All I can say initially is that it really gave me a sense of the Mysterium Tremendum, the light just peeking through a crack in the door, and it flattens you.
I went to bed last night eager to ponder just Who this Jesus is.
I think often we read over/gloss over/ read with glazed eyes the gospel accounts about Jesus and we don’t realize the ENORMITY of WHO THIS IS.
Susan, That’s what I’ve been realizing through this Bible Study and through church this week, too. And I haven’t even listened to the (paid) sermon yet (Listened to the free one at about 3:00 this morning!). Off to listen to download the sermon now.
I’m sorry, I’ve been off line for 2-3 days. so much to catch up with and so much pain…so sorry Chris..loved your testomony. so thankful your all safe, Angela. Prayer’s for all of you. So much pain you all bear.
My brother, Dennis and I went to Mary Kay’s best friend’s funeral, out of town.
She was 61 and had been suffering with Lou Garrett’s disease the last 3 yrs. The last several months all she could move was her eye’s, but her mind was good. Her husband took care of her, besides hospice. It was so sad. Dennis needed me for support. Both Mary Kay and Sandi suffered so much…now they are at peach with Jesus. A cousin of ours died of cancer, too. I guess it’s my age, where you start losing so many loved ones. It’s so hard.
Shanon is doing good, except she is so very tired all the time. Her husband got a construction job, Praise God. They still have no health insurance. Shanon starts chemo next wed. They got some of the cancer from surgery from her neck. But she has breast cancer and some in her spine. Please keep praying for her and their two little girls. She will be feeling terrible trying to help their girls. But Jeremy and her parents will help alot.
Kendra is still not bearing weight on her broken ankle…it’s very hard on both of us to help her all the time.
Other than that…I’m praying for all of you and lost track of my lesson again …so sorry. God is so good and we are so Blessed!
So hard you are having such a heavy load. Still praying for you, Joyce.
Glad for the update. Love and hugs friend.
Praying for you, Joyce. And for Shanon, too. How is Dennis? Is he back at home? I thought you had said he and a cousin (?) were going to travel a little?
They were together for the first 3 weeks after Mary Kay’s funeral, visiting relatives. But Dennis has been home about 5 weeks and works outside or in his garage/shop..keeping very busy and wears himself out (cutting wood and etc.) so he can sleep good at night. He said the evenings alone is the hardest time.
We still go there about 2-3 times a week, in the evening and I take him something baked, and he loves that. Everyone has forgotten him now he said, except us:(
That’s the hard part about death, when the people leave. I usually try to contact the person about 2 months after just to check in (if they aren’t part of my family). I try to continue that, but it is hard if I don’t see them much.
How sweet that you take Dennis baked things 🙂 i bet he really appreciates you Joyce!
I’m so sorry to hear of your pain and troubles Joyce. You have a great outlook.
Dear Lord, our sweet sister Joyce is struggling with her family and close friends. She is a faithful follower and loves others so much. Thank you for allowing us to know Joyce and share her pain. Thank you for Dee and this website; to be a place she can come for strength. Lord we know you are with her. You know just what she needs. We trust you to provide that for Joyce, Lord. Amen.
Thank you so much, Laura
“Now they are at Peach with Jesus” I said!! It does sound peachy to be with him tho!
Ha! It made me smile 🙂
Me too!
I am praying for Shanon & her family, for Dennis & for you and Maurice too, Joyce.
Supplemental Sermon: How To Find The Way
8. If you listened to this, write down key points.
Key points: There are two ways: the broad way and the narrow way. Keller asks where do they lead, what they are, why they lead where they do and how to be on the true path.
WHERE DO THEY LEAD? The narrow way has negative associations. It means to be squashed. The broad way has positive connotations of spaciousness and freedom. Jesus says the broad way leads to destruction, but the narrow way leads to life. Its inside is bigger than its outside.
WHAT ARE THEY? People think the broad way is the easy, lazy life, of those who don’t want to follow the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule. They think the narrow way is the hard way of discipline and self-denial, and caring for the poor, and living by the Golden Rule.
This is not what these two ways mean. Almost everyone wants to follow the Golden Rule and care for the poor. It is just that those on the broad way are doing it to be seen by others, to get leverage over people and over God. They are trying to save themselves. The narrow way uses things to get to God. Life is for God, not to get approval or brownie points.
Other religions say try hard and then you will be saved. Christianity says be saved, and then out of that live a good life.
WHY DO THEY LEAD WHERE THEY DO? The narrow way leads to spaciousness because the only way to be saved is through Jesus. All is grace. Jesus fought and won the gate for me. I can just enter.
Broad minded people believe you have to be good to find God. They may not know it but they believe the doctrine of justification by works.
A Christian who says I am saved by grace, when someone takes away your honor, reputation, it doesn’t matter. You know what Jesus has done for you. He loves you, you know what you look like to him; you know what is in store for you. A person can pick your pocket of 5 cents, because you have your wealth in a trust fund safely.
HOW TO BE ON THE TRUE PATH
Non-Christians: what Jesus is trying to say is make a decision. If we are saved by our works and there is a “cut off” somewhere. If salvation is a matter of relationship with Jesus, who you are doing this for, then it makes a difference. Who are you doing it for?
Christians: Only Christians have the spaciousness of not feeling superior of the people that they are opposed to. They are not judgmental if you are in my way. The mark of the broad way is you feel superior to people on the other way. You are not chained to what people do to you. Nevertheless, you can lose your spaciousness through forgetting the gospel.
9A. If you are religious to feel good about yourself — if you are doing Bible study, giving to the poor, and going to church — all to feel good about yourself, but not loving God — is it possible you are not saved, even if you can explain the gospel?
Yes I think it is possible. Satan can stop the ears of faithful church attenders, even in a solid evangelical church so that people are spending their lives thinking they are serving God, when really they are doing it to feel good about themselves, or to earn the approval of others or of God, they hope.
But I also think that it is also very possible that these are true Christians who initially were saved by faith in Jesus but, as Keller explains it, have lost their spaciousness and started to look for approval, security, power or control. They are now trying to earn their salvation, having forgotten that Jesus did it all for them.
This was me. I have never had a problem realizing I couldn’t earn my salvation, that Jesus did it all for me, but I wanted so much the approval of others as a way to feel good about myself. Of course, approval is an insatiable monster that never can be filled for very long. So I was miserable most of the time. Sometimes I blamed myself for it and sometimes I blamed others.
Seeking approval keeps me from rejoicing in the Lord. I lose sight of my spaciousness and freedom in Christ. I have to be very careful not to step into that trap, that old way of thinking.
9B. Is there a danger in issuing an invitation that is more on the basis of what you will get from God than on who He is? If so, how would that impact your evangelistic conversations?
Yes, perhaps more than ever, when people do not know much of Scripture they just want rescue without a proper knowledge or fear of God. Then, perhaps, salvation for them is all about them and they are disillusioned when they do not live happily ever after. Are they the seed that lands on hard soil and burns up as soon as the heat hits it?
9. Would love your input on the questions swirling in my head:
A. If you are religious to feel good about yourself — if you are doing Bible study, giving to the poor, and going to church — all to feel good about yourself, but not loving God — is it possible you are not saved, even if you can explain the gospel?
This is hard, but I may lean towards saying yes, it is possible you are not saved, but that it is also possible to be saved and live this way. I know too many in this place, and I know at some point I was there—and I believe I was a believer then. I wasn’t consciously doing it to feel good about myself, but I think I did let it on some level make me feel good–like in college, deep down, I thought those of us in Christian ministry were somehow “better, more moral” (ick to think of now) than my “wilder” friends. When Keller mentions the 2nd type on the fence– I believe they are saved, but missing out on the true freedom to be experienced here, now. The joy of the Gospel is lost on them. One family member I think of now, extremely religious and moral. I do think she is a believer, and yet so trapped by her works it pains me. I pray for the chains to fall off so that she can know she doesn’t have to keep playing the game—it’s over, He won, and He’s given her the reward.
B. Is there a danger in issuing an invitation that is more on the basis of what you will get from God than on who He is? If so, how would that impact your evangelistic conversations?
I was thinking about this and the Prodigal Son. The real problem with the Older Son was his heart—he didn’t love his father—it was all to get something from him. When his heart was exposed, we saw he wouldn’t have done any of his actions for his father if he didn’t think it was earning him something “extra”. I think our conversations need to be honest—life here is hard, and accepting Christ as your Savior is not a magic wand that will take away your problems. The focus of the Gospel is our Creator God loves us so much that He gave Jesus, His Son, as the sacrifice for all of our rebellion—there is such a deep, deep love that draws us to Him—Our God wants us. I could go on, but the emphasis to me is about Him, Who He is, His love for us, His desire for us, His plans…it is relationship.
This is great Elizabeth!
When I was a young teen I went out witnessing many Saturday’s. We knocked on the door, introduced ourselves and asked the question, “If you were to die today would you know for sure you would go to heaven?” Then we almost always had an opening to give the Romans road. Many were saved. I have since changed my approach. For one, I don’t knock on doors! Can hardly believe I ever did this but it was “the way” back then, 30 years ago. I now try to have a relationship with people and then look for an opportunity to share and since meeting Dee I believe it’s really important to help folks understand they need to count the cost like her sister did with her. I like Dee’s approach so very much with her Curves ladies and will incorporate it into my witnessing.
Sermon notes:
I loved the sermon for it opened up scripture in a new way even though I have read these passages many times. I have never pondered His answer, I AM relating His diety. He wasn’t created by anyone but is the creator. Loved the grace that Dr. Keller weaves through many of his sermons. Liked the son/master of household story. Love Jesus’ approach to the Pharasees. He tells them He knew Abraham – their father and existed before him. Loved how the transcribers put together “Jehovah” and how it was too sacred to say this name. If He was a demon how could He love like He did, teach like He did, change his followers like He did? And the example his teacher gave that begs us to ask how can we even think God could be our assistant!!!
Such good ponderings. An excellent group. Good fare whenever I come!
A. If you are religious to feel good about yourself — if you are doing Bible study, giving to the poor, and going to church — all to feel good about yourself, but not loving God — is it possible you are not saved, even if you can explain the gospel? Absolutely. Head knowledge is a far cry from heart knowledge. If you are not in love with God how can you possibly think you are saved? I believe you could be right here with us on this blog and unsaved – I pray not but it is a possibility.
B. Is there a danger in issuing an invitation that is more on the basis of what you will get from God than on who He is?
Yes again, I was taught this way. Come to Jesus to avoid hell fire! Thankfully He spoke to my heart and wooed me. I began to fall in love with Him right from the start.
If so, how would that impact your evangelistic conversations? I want to be balanced in witnessing. I like to weave my testimony in so that the listener can see that Jesus means everything to me – to personalize it. I want them to count the cost and know His great love and sacrifice and that there is a hell fire penalty.
I asked Andrew, my 10 year old, as I was taking him to the Doctor today what he knew about Jesus. He said Jesus is awesome, and he answers prayer. I said, oh, explain. He said he prayed about something and it happened. Then I asked him who Jesus was-He said, God. Then I gave him that illustration that Keller’s teacher gave (Elizabeth Elliot)..He said, Wow! I said, THAT is Jesus and He wants you to love Him and want Him for him, and to have a close relationship with Him. He doesn’t want you to want Him for what He can give you. He shook his head and smiled and said, “I know mom, you say that ALL the time.” ;~/
So cute, Rebecca!
That’s great!
This made me smile really big!
3. Read John 8:31-38
They are trusting in the fact that they are “offspring” of Abraham. Yet what evidence does Jesus give that they are not saved? That they are not free because they are still slaves to sin. Abiding in Jesus Word.
Ladies just came on to ask for prayer. The 2 year old that I babysit has been sick but he seemed to be doing better so mom went to work and when I went to put him in his pajamas he started shaking and also rechecked his temp and it was over 1oo checked it again a few min later it was 104 and again a few min after that it was105 so I freaked out didn’t know what to do called mom at work and she told me to give him some children’s Tylenol and I also put a wet washcloth on his Face I am really hoping I did the right thing I started bawling after mom left to bring him to the er. I felt bad for not offering to stay with his older brother but this gals mom lives around here so If she needs someone then her mom can always help. Thanks for the prayers please pray that I would not give to the enemy I am havin a lot if anxious and neg thoughts lIke did I do everything I could have done? Did I do a good enough job? 🙁
Praying Meg, it sounds like you did just what you should have. Keep your eyes on Jesus
Meg, it sounds like you done all you could. Praying for you!
7. He also addresses how it is so easy to trust in religion instead of God. What notes do you have?
Tim Keller said: “They are saying they are followers of biblical religion-the pagans are slaves to drugs, sex and rock and roll, they aren’t-they are the good people. Jesus says to be religious and moral is just as much spiritual slavery as to be irreligious and immoral.”
“Jesus looks at them and says you have a slavish relationship with God-you are bound up like the pagans and unless you come to the father through me you will remain slaves. I will give you a relationship with God which is intimacy and security-you have a relationship based on pride, compulsion and fear. I HAVEN’T COME TO CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR BUT TO CHANGE YOUR STATUS..(LOVED THAT!!) I come and through me your relationship to God will turn from slavery to Sonship.”
4. Read John 8:39-47
A. Our father is either Satan or God. Find characteristics of each family.
God-Truth
Doing the things in Faith like Abraham
God enables them to hear truth
Satan-Lies
Works based salvation
Self righteousness
Murderers
B. Why does Jesus say they do not believe? (vs. 43) What does this mean?They cannot bear to hear it.
C. Keller says the real hesitancy to Christ is moral rather than intellectual. People don’t want to give up what they think is freedom. Do you agree with Keller? probably. You can make us tons of reasons not to give up what is comfortable. Once you know Jesus is Lord or not it is pretty clear. But as he said you cannot stay on the fence you have to make a choice.
D. Give an example of how a surrender to God in any area of your life led to real freedom. Several of you last week: Chris, Rebecca, Anne, Elizabeth, Pollyanna — more — commented on your increasing awareness of God’s goodness. This, I believe, is what helps us surrender. Eager for testimonies! Well I was really thinking a lot about this lately. Food. I am really free from it controlling my life. I do not even look desirably at it anymore and that is true freedom! So much so I thought maybe I need to see the doctor to make sure nothing is wrong!! HA!
Then there is the security stuff. Realizing all the house and all our stuff could have burned and I would be fine. I was so happy to see that freedom in my heart as well. He works in wonderful ways!Way we sometimes cannot even see.
Praise God, Angela!
5. Read John 8:48-59
A. Trace the debate — the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation- “you are samaritan and demon possessed”
49-51 response- “I am not possessed by a demon, but I honor my Father-you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself, but God seeks it-he is the judge. Whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
52-53 accusation- “Now we know that you are demon possessed.”- They don’t see him as God-greater than the prophets and Abraham.
54-56 response- “God glorifies me.” “I know him but you don’t, and if I said I did not I would be a liar like you, but I do obey Him and His word.” Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day. He saw it and was glad.”
57 accusation- “You are not even 50 years old and you have seen Abraham?” (They were making fun of him)
58 response- “Before Abraham was born I AM!”
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.”
That He is God-the One who is timeless, who has no beginning or end, the One who was and is and will be,creator sustainer of the Earth, the universe, the heavens.
C. How did the Pharisees respond? Why, do you think?
They knew exactly who he was saying he was and they picked up stones to try to kill him with.
A. Trace the debate — the accusations of the Pharisees and the responses of Jesus.
48: accusation- Calling Him a Samaratian and demon
49-51 response I do not have a demon but honor my father, I don’t seek my glory but the Father does
52-53 accusation-Now we know you have a demon! You are crazy. Saying you wont die. Who do you think you are?
54-56 response-If I glorify myself it is for nothing!It is my Father who glorifies me. Abraham rejoiced when he saw my day.
57 accusation-How could you see Abraham you are not yet 50!
58 response-Before Abraham was I AM!
B. What are the implications of “Before Abraham was, I AM.” He has always been. He is GOD.
C. How did the Pharisees respond? Why, do you think?Picked up stones to kill Him. They saw it as blasphemy. They thought they were doing a good thing. They were blinded.
8. If you listened to this, write down key points.
a. If you are on the broad way, every incident of your day is fighting for your very life. If someone robs you of your reputation, that is the only reputation you got-you aren’t sure God loves you, you aren’t sure he is your father. You aren’t sure he loves and accepts you. You can’t if you are winning the gate by your good deeds. Your spaciousness your broadness that says you don’t have to just believe in Jesus you just have to live the best you can, if someone hurts your career, that is the only honor you have, the only worth you have and you are going to hate that person and hate yourself-you have to-why? It is the broadness that leads to narrowness…
b. Narrowness leads to spaciousness and spaciousness leads to narrowness..When you are a Christian you have honor in being a Christian so if something is taken away it won’t be all you have-you won’t be crushed, all of you know he loves you, you know what your worth to him, you know what he has done for you, what you look like to him, what is in store for you. It is like someone pick pocketed 25 cents when you have billions in store elsewhere.
I also loved this:
The broad way are the people who are the judgmental people-they feel superior over everyone, that their sins are not as bad as the others sins. That is the reason liberals and conservatives are on the broad way. The people on the narrow way say the real problem is me, I am a sinner.
9. Would love your input on the questions swirling in my head:
A. If you are religious to feel good about yourself — if you are doing Bible study, giving to the poor, and going to church — all to feel good about yourself, but not loving God — is it possible you are not saved, even if you can explain the gospel?
Great question..Unbelievers do this as a form of works-righteousness. It is all about gaining approval from others and feeling good about yourself-being a ‘good person’. It has nothing to do with loving God.
Yet, I also think when Christians forget the Gospel we can easily turn to ministering for approval, to feel good about ourselves-We forget the Gospel and we forget to rejoice in Jesus. Yet, I do think God is faithful and the Holy Spirit will convict our hearts. I think over time, God lets us experience the consequences of a hindered intimacy so we might come to our senses.
B. Is there a danger in issuing an invitation that is more on the basis of what you will get from God than on who He is? If so, how would that impact your evangelistic conversations?
YES!! I do think so. Again, great question! Yes, there is a danger-It cheapens God-brings him down as someone to be used and then thrown away when done-no love-no relationship. The person will end up living to get good things from him in return rather than living for Him who saved him. He is the God of the universe-the One who created us and the galaxies and everything in it, and HE DEEPLY DESIRES to have a relationship with us-and because He deeply loves us He paid the price for our sins Himself so we wouldn’t have to face judgment and eternity separate from Him-so we could live for Him. The focus of evangelism for me is on relationship.
My father is a retired minister i recently had a conversation about sharing my faith. He was relating an incident where someone said to him “I hope I make it” (meaning to heaven)He told them he wanted them to read 1 John 5 and that he would check with them later. The next time they met he asked if she had taken the time to read and what she had learned. She shared that she could know that she was going to heaven. I say all that to share this I get so anxious about sharing my faith, and saying the right words and in the right way that I forget to let the Holy Spirit do the work. I blame myself for my failure, my inadequacy, and then this causes me not to share again. I can not save anyone only He can draw them to himself. Just showing them the light, shaking a little salt and then like you Dee just waiting to see if God is wooing her.
Marjorie, Great points..This reminds me of just being honest about who you are-He is all you are..I am also thinking of Sara Groves “Conversations” song. I remember when I was working at a bank in Missouri, I was single so I had lots of time to build relationships. God brought a gal, Raina, in my path. I spent time with her at her home, at work, etc.. We would go out to eat during breaks at work and the first few weeks we were getting to know each other, she asked, “Why is it that every time we talk you mention God.” I told her, “Well, if we are going to be friends it would be phony and misleading of me if I didn’t. He is my life-the center of my life and if you are going to get to know me-you have to know this about me too.” She hung around after that-:-) I am not sure if she ever came to know the Lord. I do know God opened plenty of doors-she began asking questions and we even got into bible study at her home. It wasn’t until after I left work and married that I called her to see how she was doing and after a long conversation she blurted out of the blue, “..and oh, I just want to let you know I agree with you.” I said with what? “Your faith” or something like that. I didn’t take it further-she is the kind with few words. I am not sure if that meant she surrendered her life or not.
A. If you are religious to feel good about yourself — if you are doing Bible study, giving to the poor, and going to church — all to feel good about yourself, but not loving God — is it possible you are not saved, even if you can explain the gospel?
This question reminded me of how awful I was after I became saved, in the 70’s. I thought I was so religious, but I was doing dumb, feel good things to feel good about myself, and not loving God like I should of. I think I was really saved, but my heart was being controlled by my idols of controll and approval. I’m embarrased to say what I did, but here goes! My husband then was in some trouble with the law and had to go to court. Well, I walk into the courtroom in a white dress, carrying a bible in my hands and sobbing. I look back now and think what people must of thought of me…like a “show off”, trying to get empathy for my husband and myself! I am ashamed of how I behaved! Alot of hardships is what really turned my head to the Lord. He is turning my pride into humility, one hard step at a time and it’s not “put on” anymore…it’s the real thing…a deep, deep love for God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I don’t like phonys, like I use to be, but God loved me anyway and probly had a good laugh over me. I look back and can laugh at myself too, now!!
I can relate, Joyce. We’ve all done things we are not proud of. Glad His grace is sufficient for just such things.
9. Would love your input on the questions swirling in my head:
A. If you are religious to feel good about yourself — if you are doing Bible study, giving to the poor, and going to church — all to feel good about yourself, but not loving God — is it possible you are not saved, even if you can explain the gospel?
I thought right away about those so called Christians who show up at funerals with signs saying God hates____ whatever. I think most of them can probably articulate the gospel. It is clear though, that they don’t understand it.
Erwin Lutzer said something like ‘we will certainly be surprised at who is in heaven that we would not have expected and who is not there that we were sure would be.’
Just as the Pharisees were blind to their need and feeling justified by their morality, many today I think follow in their footsteps. They were the only figures in the gospels with whom Christ was repeatedly harsh.
B. Is there a danger in issuing an invitation that is more on the basis of what you will get from God than on who He is? If so, how would that impact your evangelistic conversations?
I am not sure because I think belief & obedience comes in stages. Often people believe and obey out of fear initially, then out of a sort of obligation, and as we mature we believe and obey out of love, truly trusting Him with everything.
I would hope to communicate with a seeker the magnificence of the offer of salvation, but the fear of Hell is not something to be avoided.
It is His kindness that leads us to repentance, but sometimes fear can open one up to that leading, don’t you think?
I agree, fear often plays a part initially. I like that this weeks study has opened my mind to the need for explanation of who He as part of my witnessing. Good week, good study. Praying for Brian.
Me too…praying for Brian
I am still working on my notes from the second sermon, I have had a busy week and a tough day yesterday. Relationships were difficult, there was some disappointing news about Brian’s choices, I ate badly and didn’t exercise. Ugh.
Today I will be traveling to see my father’s brother, the last of my Dads siblings. One of my sisters is sick and not going, my brother and my other two sisters and I will be going. This was my idea, I hope it goes well, there have been some extreme tensions in the family over the last 6 or 7 years. If you all would pray for us I would be grateful. I pray that if I speak it will be with love and humility or not at all, there have been such hurt feelings all around.
I hope to catch up with reading everyones comments this evening and tomorrow morning. I feel like I am missing out!
Gracious Father, be with Chris S. and her siblings as they travel to see see her father’s brother today. You know the relationships and we know that your heart is to bring healing. Thank you for Chris’s step of faith to risk suggesting this visit. Give her the love and wisdom and humility that she needs to share the hope she has in you in word and deed. We place this day in your loving hands. Amen.
I will be praying for your time today Chris–for the conversations, for peace and healing-let us know how it goes. Sorry too about yesterday and things with Brian–praying for him too.
Thank you girls, the visit with our uncle went well, we didnt stay as late as we had planned because we could see that he was tired. He is so much like our father it wrenchs my heart to have such a vivid reminder of my dad.
Faith slipped easily into our conversations a few times. Neither my uncle or his son are Christ followers.
Things between the sisters were good, not wonderful, but I will gladly take good & be thankful for it!
Oh yes, Brian is here now, when I came home he & Bill were sharing a pizza.
Last night he went to an arena football game with a bunch of young people from Youth Group.
Tomorrow night 17 students from the Youth Group Bill works with are being baptised!
Chris–what a praise! I was about to post to ask how it went, but figured you may not be back yet. I’m thankful you followed the nudge in your heart to go.
Lord, we pray that the words share today with Chris’ uncle and his son would be seeds that will grow–we ask that You stir in their hearts Lord and draw them to faith in Christ.
Love the good update on Brian–and how exciting the baptisms tomorrow–wow! That’s beautiful!
All great news, Chris!
10. What’s your take-a-way for the week and why?
I think it is two fold for me-I really trust God will lead me as I encounter and develop relationships with unbelievers. I think this study is crucial in helping me see how important it is to ask questions, engage them and trust Him as I go from there. My take away from this week is that I think God wants us to help them sift through the layers of lies in their head. I firmly believe people have to be willing to give up their life to follow Him.
Secondly, Jesus engaged them-He asked penetrating questions bringing out who they thought He was and at the same time confronted their lies/their idols-all throughout scripture He does this. I am going to think more on this-I see Paul doing this too.
this helps me Rebecca–“My take away from this week is that I think God wants us to help them sift through the layers of lies in their head.” It is so much more than the 1,2,3 step plan to Christ, the ABC as Keller says–we must first engage where they are, in their minds, and hearts–this is good.
10. What’s your take-a-way for the week and why?
I have gained some new insights into ways to talk to unbelievers to lead to conversations about Jesus. Now I have to look for opportunities to try them. I also found Keller’s explanation, about the broad way being thinking we can be good to get to God and the narrow way being trusting in Jesus’ sufficiency only, very helpful. I like the thought that Jesus is the narrow gate that leads to spaciousness, yet what seems like the broad way of open-mindedness leads to narrow pride and a bitter, critical spirit.
All of our focus on sharing our faith has me thinking about the book “Out of the Salt Shaker” by Rebecca Manly Pippert. It is a wonderful book on freindship evangelism.
I think I may read it again!
10. What’s your take-a-way for the week and why?
I like Dee’s approach so much I hope to have an opportunity to use it soon. Diane took my take-away answer. 😉 about the wide and narrow gate. My favorite take from the sermon and lesson hands-down was when Jesus declared His deity and blew them away with I AM! Sad their hearts were so darkened they thought He was demon possessed. This is why I pray continuously for God to open my eyes so I may see the truth. Don’t want to be led astray.
I love this group of wise spirit led women. Love how we are growing into His image-bearers.
6. Give us your notes, and as you write them, think of how you might make these statements when you have “conversations” with unbelievers.
So many have shared great, detailed notes….I’m going to try not to be repetitive here…once again, I copied the sermon almost word for word! Here’s what stood out to me:
Jesus’ first claim that He can set us free, and the Jews argue that they have never been slaves to anyone – I’d never understood that before that what they were referring to was inner, spiritual freedom. But Jesus is telling them they are just as enslaved as pagans.
I liked the discussion about what Jesus meant by “Abraham rejoiced to see My day”.
I love how the climax builds and builds in this passage – so opposite of the, excuse me, “wimpy” Jesus often portrayed in movies about His life, where an actor with a British accent portrays Him and the only time Jesus gets a little worked-up is in the driving the moneychangers out of the temple.
Jesus pushes and pushes, until “they exploded inside….they picked up stones because they knew what He meant”. He has the audacity to say, “Before Abraham was, I AM”. They instantly recognize the meaning of this most holy Name, the Name given from the burning bush. This Name, “Jesus does not simply take it on His lips, He takes it on Himself”.
Jesus shows He is utterly, completely sure of who He is.
Jesus pushes and pushes and “He basically says, crown Me or kill Me – I’m either the Lord or I’m demonic. You can either make Me the center of your life, or you must hate Me and do everything you possibly can to have nothing to do with Me.”
There is NO MIDDLE GROUND WITH JESUS. “The Jesus of the Gospels is the best kept secret of Christianity”. – M. Scott Peck
Consider His “throw away phrases” – all those prophets that came to you over the centuries – I sent them! Oh, and I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning!
The only people who actually saw what Jesus was and did were two kinds: either the ones who killed Him, or the ones whose lives were so transformed by Him that they turned the whole world upside down. He asked for it, He wanted that. Because peoople who are out to kill Him are the most likely to see who He is.
It’s the indifferent people who have no idea what He’s really saying. At least the ones who are angry at Him have heard Him – and they might believe Him.
Even Christians can live their lives “on the fence”.
Would be good to have conversations with people about “Who do you think Jesus is?”
Always love your notes, Susan.