This last Wednesday on Moody’s Midday Connection I shared how after I had a close friend who struggled with homosexuality and heard her story — her childhood of abuse, her fears of men, I had a change in my attitude. Before I heard her story, I just didn’t understand same sex attraction. But my heart was moved by compassion for her. Don’t misunderstand — I know that practicing homosexuality is a sin, and leads to miserable chains, but I suddenly became empathetic. We each have idols of our hearts — and we need each other to help overcome them. Right now the church doesn’t seem to be a safe place for those struggling with this sin to come for help. What can we do? I am flooded with letters about this because of The Friendships of Women.
This program led to a discussion on the Midday Forum thread of friendship, and those who have participated have asked to have a place where they could talk about it freely. So I’m opening this blog post.
I want to begin it with a letter from a gal who calls herself journeyvision. I’d love for you to respond to her because we have been so blessed on this blog with caring, insightful, and kind women.
From Journeyvision:
I listened to the radio program today unfortunately its the last day of this study. and you talked about homosexuality. i really am a struggler in this area and its interesting that one of the speakers mentioned this. and i was surprised to hear her say that she understood. i dont think i really hear that a lot but the anger that christians have about it mostly. and i just wish that i could really know that i wasnt rejected by others that they could understand me
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Dee,
Thanks for doing this. I met you last Friday night at FBC at the Mall in Lakeland.
May God bless you as you continue to minister in His name.
Thank you, Cheri!
How fun that I was just with you. What a lovely group of women in Lakeland, Florida! I didn’t know you were the lightening capitol of the world! You lived up to your name that night. The next morning we drove by a lake full of swans. Lovely.
Thanks for participating in this.
Dee
I just took my nine year old daughter to Lake Morton to feed the ducks and swans this afternoon. Yes, very lovely!
I couldnt write since i was at work last time and I wanted to say that I do feel a lot of acceptance here or on the other forum. What I want to say is that for me anyway growing up, I ve had these feelings since I can remember. No one tells you they are wrong unless you tell someone you have them. I knew something about me was different from other girls but I didnt know what and at that time I wasnt acting out sexually. How do you know something is wrong unless some tells you? I mean like I said before, its out there everywhere. Its like this really big battle because on one side are those that oppose it and on the other side are those that accept it. I dont know if there is something called a ‘struggling christian’ or not. I don’t know if I can say I am on the side of the christian who is struggling because it would seem that since God doesnt condone the lifestyle than its wrong. I guess I would say struggling because part of me isnt totally 100% into it. Yet I feel that do I want to make a change because I dont want to be condemned by God? how do i start to really reach out? i m not sure I can at this point. talking here is really great but a hand to reach out to. i hope i do accept that hand when it is. how do you transfer your self to God after being what you say is idolatry to him? after years of being one way?
Journeyvision,
I love your questions. Reading your post is helping me in more ways than you may know. It makes me sad to think that our churches are not a safe place for strugglers. Not just with homosexuality. I am sad because I know I have been guilty of asking someone how they are, but really only wanting them to say………”GREAT!”
You may not realize it, but God is using you to teach me and
Dee is right, we all have idols. ALL OF US!
I struggle with desiring the “approval” of others. On the surface, some may say that there is nothing wrong with desiring the approval of others and wanting them to be pleased; however, it is idolatry any way you look at it.
Idolatry of any sort always leads to bondage.
I am looking forward journeying with you as we share together on this website.
I have made this statement for several years, “God loves us and accepts us as we are, but He loves us to much to let us stay that way!” Last Friday night, I heard Dee in person and she made a similar statement over and over.
Journeyvision, He loves you, He loves you, He loves you. You are precious in His sight.
Hi Cheri,
I feel as though this is a journey also for me. A long journey, I guess that’s why I choose that name. I m bruised and battle weary over it. I want to lay down my weapons but I am afraid. I guess I’m afraid because I won’t have anyone to protect me. And my ‘idol’ cant protect me or save me either. If I walk away from this, I don’t want to ever come back. The problem is, when I try to make that decision, then I see something I want and it becomes a problem again. Thank you so much for all of your words and encouragement.
journeyvision
Journeyvision,
I appreciate how well you express your struggle. Thank you for your complete honesty. It is so hard to lay our idols down and you have described the struggle so well.
For me, I get used to wearing my idols like a coat and the fear of not having that covering anymore overwealms me with fear. (as sick as it sounds, it’s comfortable, it’s my coat!) I believe my struggles are related to control issues; however, the funny thing about trying to be in control is that it is the very thing that keeps me in bondage.
I want to share a verse with you that was a pivotal point for me in my journey:
Jesus says, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light!” Matthew 11:28-30
I am so glad God has led us all to this community via web. Looking forward to what He is going to do in our lives.
Bless You.
Journeyvision — so glad you are feeling support. I love your questions.
One is, “How do you know something is wrong unless someone tells you?”
Often I think our conscience does tell us, but the clamor of the world can confuse us, and it is certainly clamoring! When I gave The Friendships of Women to 100 young female inmates in an Omaha jail, they were surprised to learn it was wrong. They thought it was okay to be “gay for the stay,” but then they found they were imprisoned by those choices.
Your next question is hitting right at the heart of all our idols — and believe me, we all have them. “How to you transfer your self to God after idolatry — after years of it?” I have thoughts, Journeyvision — but am eager to hear from others first.
Thanks for good good questions!
I grew up christian, and a huge issue that pulled me away from it was the fact that christianity thinks homosexuality is a sin. I, in my heart of hearts, do not believe for one minute that homosexuality is a sin. Our God does not condemn you for that, and there is plenty of scientific exidence to prove that is is a genetic-based preference, something that is determined well before birth. You do not “turn” gay or heterosexual, you either ARE or you AREN’T. The cross that homosexuals bear is a heavy one, and one that God is waslking with as well. It is the people that think it’s still a sin that frighten me. I happen to be a heterosexual, but do have many homosexual friends. They embrace their homosexuality, and yes, have been shunned by certain ignorant family members who do not believe that is a “Godly” lifestyle.
Do you know what you do when you deny the person you are and the way you feel? You live your life in a lie. You repress and deny normal human feelings that you have. You are not making God happy, you are insulting him. I suggest anyone struggling with homosexuality and it’s notions of being “sinful” should see a counselor, preferably one that is non-religious based. I am proud to be a Christian, and I am proud to accept homosexuality with open arms.
Hi Jenny,
I m reading your comments here and I am reading or have read what people have said to me also. What I want to write is why would we be born that way and then God tell us it is wrong to ‘be’ that way? Why would he punish us for being gay, if he made us that way? Genetics, I don’t understand too much of, but, that still to me falls into the category of something that you are born with. I wouldn’t understand that either. There are two opinions only to this, the lie and the truth. I know what you are talking about because I have been there, with the family members, and the insults and everything. You’re talking to a person like me. I know there are a lot of people that don’t want to carry this burden and they don’t care about genetics or God, but they don’t want to be this way. And there are others who embrace it 100%. For me inside there is a struggle. And if there were not a struggle, then I would surely go with my feelings and not be alarmed. The fact that there is a struggle inside me means to me something is wrong with the way I ve been thinking and acting in regards to this lifestyle. If I go in one way towards God, I still struggle, if I go in the other direction and embrace homosexuality, there is still a struggle because of my conscience. I m glad you wrote and I respect what you’ve said. I think it makes my decision a little more clearer.
Dear journeyvision, I love the name you chose to use, it makes me think that you are on a journey and the Lord is beginning to open your eyes and is beginning to give you a clearer vision of both yourself and a clearer vision of Him. It is what He desires journeyvision. He loves you, before time began, he loved you. He knew you before you were born, he knew each word you would speak, each thing you would do. Nothing you do, or have done is a surprise to Him. Knowing everything about you, He CHOSE to love you, He CHOSE to give up his own life to make a way for you to have peace with God.
You ask yourself the question: do you want to change because you don’t want to be condemned by God? Isn’t that a great question? Oh, journeyvision, God so much loves you. I see that so much in the way that he is showing you the truth. If we never knew our “sins”, the things that we do to bring us condemnation from God, we could or would never ask God to forgive us. When we confess our “sins”, we are agreeing with God that they are wrong. It is God himself, who says these things are wrong. In the Bible, it says the “wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” When we realize – “all of us” – that what we have done is wrong in God’s eyes, and God says the punishment for that wrong is death, we begin to realize that we need someone to rescue us. There is no hope for us – “any of us” – except in God. God himself, made a way to rescue us, to redeem us. I love that word redeem it means to “buy back; to ransom; to rescue; to save.” You see, we are all sinners in need of a Savior. And God, sent a savior, someone to take our place, someone to pay the penalty that we deserved. God sent His one and only, beloved son, to take our place. He never, not even once, did anything wrong, but he always obeyed his Father. And only one who had no sin could take our place. Jesus is God’s gift of love to us, the only way to be made right with the Father, with God. In the Bible, it says, “if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Again, in the Bible, it says Romans 10:9,10 (NLT) “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.”
I hope this helps journeyvsion.
God loves you journeyvision, alot of women are praying for you!
Hi Fellowsojourner,
I think for me right now, I am kind of wondering how to really make the choice to leave this lifestyle and follow God. I don’t know how to do this. I would like to do this. It’s like its etched into my very being and I can’t wipe it away or try to change my behavior to get it in line with God’s. I do need a savior because my strength is small and I don’t have the power to say no. Even as I write this, I am trembling inside because of just thinking about how to make it. I think that in some ways God has been helping me in like I ve been thinking about how to answer people who ask if I have kids or if I date. And living the lie that you try to live in both worlds, one, in which you are angry at the Christians for hating homosexuals, then, going to church,and making believe you are really not that way even though in your heart you are. Who in the world am I? Can I say that because I ve been sexually abused that I am who I am because of that? that being abused by both sexes gives me the right to be who I am? Does God even want to hear that? I guess he wouldn’t because as you say, he cant accept my sin no matter what the reason.
Hi Journeyvision,
Oh journeyvision, it’s quite simple really. You need to ask God to help you. I really believe with all my heart journeyvision that God is longing for you, journeyvision, that He loves you so, that He is drawing you to himself. All this help from all these people is great, and God uses people journeyvision, but they are not God, God is great and God is strong, and He is able to help you more than anyone could. He understands your weakness journeyvision, He is not surprised, but journeyvision, He can change you from the inside out. He alone has the power to save journeyvision. Wherever you are, whatever your doing, cry out to Him journeyvision. He understands. I like these verses in the Bible, in Hebrews, Journeyvision, Hebrews 4:14-16, (Living Bible), “But Jesus the Son of God is our great High Priest who has gone to heaven itself to help us; therefore let us never stop trusting him. This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, since he had the same temptations we do, though he never once gave way to them and sinned. So let us come boldly to the very throne of God and stay there to receive his mercy and to find grace to help us in our times of need.” The other verses I like are in Hebrews 5:16-18 (LT), “When a man takes an oath, he is calling upon someone greater than himself to force him to do what he has promised, or to punish him if he later refuses to do it; the oath ends all argument about it. God also bound himself with an oath, so that those he promised to help would be perfectly sure and never need to wonder whether he might change his plans. He has given us both his promise and his oath, two things we can completely count on, for it is impossible for God to tell a lie. Now all those who flee to him to save them can take new courage when they hear such assurances from God; now they can know without doubt that he will give them the salvation he has promised them.”
Oh journeyvision, I love the questions you ask, because by asking them, I think you know the answer to them. You ask, “Can I say that because I have been sexually abused that I am who I am because of that? That being abused by both sexes gives me the right to be who I am?” I think abuse is horrible journeyvision, and God will judge those things, but what we do journeyvision is our choice – it’s a good and can be a bad thing, but we take ownership of those things, and the choices we make. That’s how God can forgive us journeyvision, because we own up to the things we have done wrong, and come to God and ask Him to forgive us, to cleanse us, to make us new.
Fellowsojourner
I’m so thankful for your responses.
Dee
Dee, it’s my priviledge! Thanks so much for opening this up Dee!
To all the JourneyVisions (thank you so for representing this cry for help from those who long to be set free) and Jenny’s (thank you so for representing the outcry that Christians are not showing grace when they say homosexuality is sin)
I want to answer in love and in truth. Truth without love is harsh. Yet love without truth is enabling. I have prayed God would give me both.
Jenny – I understand your hurt, and I really think that part of your anger comes from the fact that the church has failed to be loving to those caught in the chains of homosexuality. I hope that despite your pain, you can still hear me. I am praying you can. I want to paint a different scenario for you, in hopes of helping you hear – and for all the JourneyVisions out there too.
Imagine that JourneyVision’s struggle was not feeling drawn to have sex with the same sex, but to alcoholism. (Please, before you object, hear me.) Imagine that JourneyVision’s mother had been a heavy drinker when she was pregnant with her, so that through the umbilical cord, JourneyVision developed an addiction to alcohol before she was even born. Would you then tell JourneyVision: “Even though the Bible says drunkenness is wrong – this is how you are. I accept and love you and support your drinking.” You wouldn’t – would you? You would tell her the fight is going to be hard, but that Christ is right at her side. You would tell her that others have been set free, and she can be too. If she told you that she didn’t want to be set free, that she likes this, you would know she was deceiving herself.
In the same way, each of us are stained deeply with sin before we are ever born – Scripture is clear on that. I was born selfish, greedy, and I could lie as soon as I could talk. But would you say to me: “This is how you are and this is how you must be?”
I know it may seem unloving, but enabling is what is truly unloving when Christ promises freedom. Will it be hard? Yes! But oh! Being set free is so worth it!!!
There’s a significant scene in the novel, Jane Eyre, that has always moved me. I remember when I first read the book and discovered poor Mr. Rochester’s plight – married to a madwoman confined in the attic – and when Jane discovers this, she will not run away with Mr. Rochester. He is aghast, asking how he could make her live such a miserable life. I love, love, love her answer – and think it applies to all of us, no matter our idols, no matter our struggle against sin, even though we were born with a deep propensity toward sin.
Here it is – I care about you – I am praying for all of you – and I thank each who is participating. It begins with Mr. Rochester’s earnest plea to Jane to give up what the Bible says is right, for he will be miserable if she stubbornly clings to it.
“I have for the first time found what I can truly love—I have found you…It was because I felt and knew this, that I resolved to marry you. To tell me that I had already a wife is empty mockery: you know now that I had but a hideous demon. I was wrong to attempt to deceive you; but I feared a stubbornness that exists in your character…That was cowardly: I should have appealed to your nobleness and magnanimity at first, as I do now – opened to you plainly my life of agony…Then I should have asked you to accept my pledge of dielity,and to give me yours: Jane – give it to me now.”
A pause.
“Why are you silent, Jane?”
I was experiencing an ordeal, a hand of fiery iron grasped my vitals. Terrible moment: full of struggle, blackness, burning! Not a hyman being that ever lived could wish to be loved better than I was loved; and him who thus loved me I absolutely worshipped: and I must renounce love and idol. One drear word comprised my intolerable duty – “Depart!”
“Jane, you understand what I want of you? Just this promise – ‘I will be yours, Mr. Rochester.’”
“Mr. Rochester, I will not be yours.”
Another long silence.
“Jane!” recommenced he, with a gentleness that broke me down with grief, and turned me stone-cold with ominous terror – for this still voice was the pant of a lion rising – “Jane, do you mean to go one way in the world, and to let me go another?”
“I do.”
…”All happiness will be torn away with you. What then is left? For a wife I have but the maniac upstairs: as well might you refer me to come corpse in yonder church-yard. What shall I do, Jane? Where turn for a companion, and for some hope?”
“Do as I do: trust in God and yourself, Believe in heaven. Hope to meet again there.”
“Then you will not yield?”
“No.”
“Then you condemn me to live wretched, and to die accursed?” His voice rose.
“I advise you to live sinless: and I wish you to die tranquil.”
“Then you snatch love and innocence from me? You fling me back on lust for a passion – vice for an occupation?”
“Mr. Rochester, I no more assign this fate to you than I grap at it for myself. We were born to strive and endure – you as well as I: do so….”
Charlotte Bronte, Jane Eyre, (New York, Random House, 1943) p. 237-238. (originally published in 1847)
Dee,
WOW! Thank you for this post. I’ve never heard of this novel.
I just started a book club and the first book we are reading is “Friendships Of Women”. I am thinking that this old classic may be a great one to read.
What a great picture of the deceiver! How he is the Father of Lies. How he uses FEAR to keep us in bondage. quote: “All happiness will be torn away from you.”
He whispers his lies and keeps us clothed in them. He knows that the freedom we have in Christ will leave him behind and he will no longer have power over us. Satan, the deciever, has always been on a quest for power.
I love Jane’s answer: She pointed to God. God’s plan for her and God’s plan for everyone. She didn’t have the power to save him and she certainly did not need to participate in the sinfulness with him.
I think the Christian culture constantly battles with two extremes. One is to throw stones and the other is to enable those entangled in a lifestyle of sin. Both extremes would consider themselves to be loving; however, when I look at Jesus I see a different picture.
What did Jesus do with the woman caught in adultery?
First, he asked, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
No one threw a stone and they went away.
Then Jesus asked, “Where are your accusers?” Has no one condemned you?”
She said, “NO ONE, SIR.”
Jesus said, “Then neither do I condemn you,” (here is the difference) Jesus declared, “Go now and leave your life of sin.” (Jn. 8:1-11, NIV)
He calls us to LEAVE that life of sin behind. Turn from it.
This is the whole story.
Thanks Dee for the sharing that story from the novel. PERFECT picture. Loved it!
Enjoying this journey!
Dear Fellow,
I m glad today to know that there are people in the world who do not condemn those who have walked this walk. It is proof that I can grasp my mind around and never wonder again. Also, it is proof that I would like to embrace a God who does not condemn either. Thank you for writing, for spending the time to write to me and just for caring. If I ever meet you I will say, thank you for God’s sake for caring for someone like me. but i still would like to ask you a hard question about choices and about the choices people make for us. about at the beginning of this entire talk, about what the writer Jenny wrote. about this hard question:
how in the world can people say being gay is a choice when due to circumstances beyond your control, you find yourself a kid or a teen that have these feelings and emotions? and then through no fault of your own you are raped by someone of an opposite sex and the same sex. well just enough to propel you into space where you land right in the middle of that lifestyle. no one has a problem with heterosexuality, they do what they do. what if a person is like say really young and they are this way? they are just doing what they seem to be.
does a person get more choices after they became a Christ follower? then is it then that you have this power to overcome something you didn’t know was wrong in the beginning?
you said “abuse is horrible journeyvision”… you just don’t know how horrible it is.
JourneyVision
I’m so sorry for your terrible pain. I know I don’t know how horrible it is.
Your feelings are not a choice. It’s what you do with those feelings that is the choice.
The suffering in each of our lives is different – in kind and in degree. That suffering inevitably leads to feelings. I have anger at the people who abused my daughter (she was abandoned as a baby after her arm had been severed.) Those feelings are not a choice — but what I do with them is. Does that make sense?
Some say that because we have feelings, we must succumb to those — whether that leads us into promiscuity, murder, or despair. I believe Christ can help us to make higher choices — and He may be leading you into a celibate lifestyle, just as He has led me, as a young widow.
I do think that when we give into feelings, choosing the lower road, those feelings get stronger. In Genesis 4, sin is personified as a crouching lion — and God urges Cain not to give into his feelings, or that lion will overcome him. He tells Cain that he can overcome that crouching lion. So can you, JourneyVision. I see it in your heart.
Hi Dee,
I am sorry for what your daughter went through when she was a baby. It’s horrible to be abused and more horrible to be abandoned, I know that well. But I am sorry for that, and i can see from the fact of that you anger that you really care for people all people who are abused and hurt. thanks for caring about us. all of us. thanks for loving us.
journeyvision
Thank you Journeyvision. I’m so sorry for what you went through.
Ah, journeyvision,
The way I see it journeyvision, is that if all of us were lined up, heterosexual, homosexual, transexual, anyone, all of us, if we were all lined up, each of us, we would all stand “guilty” before God, because we all have sinned. And God said, the judgement for our sin is death. The truth is, that is what we can expect, apart from God. The whole world is guilty because the whole world has sinned. But you see, God didn’t just leave us there, that is the “good news”! He paid the price, for my sin, for your sin, for the whole world’s sin – it is a gift given by God to us journeyvision. We did nothing to deserve this gift journeyvision. But it is a gift that we must receive journeyvision. If I say, I have no sin journeyvision, then I have no need of a Savior, and I will die in my sins journeyvision, never accepting this gift of freedom and forgiveness. God offers this gift to ALL who will come to him. He himself, made a way for us to be forgiven, to be made new! What an exchange, my filtyness for His righteousness! God is a God of love journeyvision. In John 3:16-18 it says, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be save through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
There is like a battle going on journeyvision, a battle for your soul. God is reaching out to you because He longs to rescue you.
You do not have to be the product of someone else’s decisions, journeyvision. My father was a beater, journeyvision. Proably because of the anger in his own heart. It left marks on my own heart to be sure and I am sure there are marks on your own heart from your abuse, but the good news is Christ came to heal the broken hearted, to bind up their wounds. He came to heal us, he never thought it was O.K..
i suuppose that we most all be born messed up and sinners and as you say we all sin. is there a point when none of this is our fault? we all have sin and are sinned upon and then we suffer the consequences of those sins with wrong choices. for the first time i really get that i am a sinner. i get it. i didnt understand that before, nor did i get why i used to read the bible but it didnt really seem to stick to me or it was like personal to me. it seemed like i was reading a text book on how to live life but it was never real to ‘me’.
Thanks Dee for opening up this blog to talk about this stuff. I was reading Mid-day Connections “Friendship of Women” forum, and I love what you replied to journey vision about the ‘raisin in the sun’. Talking to journeyvision you said, “I also love your “Raisin in the Sun” quote. I believe that when well meaning people tell those with a tendency toward homosexuality that this is how they must always be that their dreams for a normal life dry up like a raisin in the sun.”
I thought about that all morning Dee. While I was in college, years ago now, I succumbed to those feelings. It was many years ago now, at least 15 years. I’ve since that time, asked the Lord to forgive me, and I have lived a celibate lifestyle. But you are right, the “dream” of a “normal life” in me has dried up like a “raisin in the sun”. Even now, to believe, that I could live a “normal life”, has opened a ray of light into my heart. I would like more light. I’m sorry, I don’t know how to explain it better than this.
hi terri
i hope you don’t mind me writing to you. i just wanted to say that your words about the ‘ray of light’ really touched me. i think you said that really well.
Teri — I think you described it beautifully.
I also think a normal life can be a celibate life, or a life of marriage.
Both can be rich and full, if we have intimacy with God. They are different — I miss my husband every day, but am discovering a “new normal.” I applaud you for the way you have been living a celibate life — and yet, if God wants marriage for you, I pray He will bring that to you. I love your heart.
Thank you Dee, your words bring thankfulness to my heart.
Thanks journey vision, it’s how I feel.
This is such a difficult subject and all of you have been so brave to voice your hurts and struggles. Your words have been tender and compassionate. Journeyvision, you have found a safe place to share your anguish.
I believe we are all sinners, unable to put the One God before all other gods. If we can’t make it past the first commandment, how could we ever work through the whole list? I believe that Jesus is the Christ and, as such, died for your salvation as well as mine. But I struggle with what that really means, especially when we look at things like homosexuality, abortion, suicide…the hot buttons of our age.
I used to think I had all the answers, right was right and wrong was wrong. Then one day a holy woman, whom I had prayed for for years to find someone to love, announced at dinner that she had fallen in love. I was thrilled! At last, my prayers had been answered. Then she told me that her love’s name was Elaine. I went from elation to distress in the span of one sentence. All of my “right is right” and “wrong is wrong” crashed in the conflicted confusion of my heart. She was the same woman after her announcement as she was before. I wasn’t. It took many months to sort this all out in my mind and my heart.
Here’s where I wound up: each of us is on a spiritual journey. The road we travel takes many twists and turns, often we come to a fork in the road. Then we make a choice. Sometimes it is a good one and sometimes it is not. But often what looks like a bad choice at the time turns out to have been the thing we needed when we get to the next fork in the road. When we learn to take Jesus along on our journey we still have choices to make, but we are no longer alone. He carries our burdens and nudges us in the direction He would have us go.
Journeyvision, you are at one of those forks in the road of your spiritual journey. You are feeling Jesus’ nudge, telling you to choose the steep twisting path out of a longtime lifestyle. Listen. Be sure the nudge is from the Lord. When you truly believe it is, you will have the strength and the courage to climb out of this life and into a new life, where you will have the experience and the compassion to help others in a way that few can. Perhaps, like Esther, you have been chosen for just such a time as this. Godspeed as you continue your journey.
Janet —
I always appreciate your warmth and articulate answers.
I want to be sure I’m understanding your answer. I do understand there are many more “gray” areas than we sometimes realize, and that we have great freedom in Christ. I don’t see homosexuality and abortion as gray area in Scripture, however. I think it’s very clear. Yet that does not mean we are unloving of those who are caught in the chains of homosexuality or have had an abortion — for we have all sinned, all in need of the same grace.
I am so thankful that Journeyvision has received love and acceptance on this blog and has found a place for discussion and healing (as you said more beautifully) — but I don’t think that she should doubt that the nudge she is sensing to abandon her homosexual lifestyle is from God. I believe He longs for her to be free of those chains. Am I misunderstanding you? I feel I’m getting to know you and can ask you this. I may not be misunderstanding you, and then we’ll agree to disagree, but just wanted to be clear.
Love to you!
Dee
Hi Dee,
As to the clarity of scripture on those topics, they are probably clearer to you than to me. That tells me I probably have a lot more work to do.
Yes, I think Journeyvision is being nudged by God. But my belief will not ease her burden. Her belief will. It is so important to listen for God’s voice – in scripture,in nature,in the voices and actions of those around us, in the circumstances around us, and in the stillness of our own spirit.
I’ve said what I said because I have heard lots of people talking at me, telling me what to believe and what God wants me to do. But until I have really listened for God’s voice in all that advice, it has not been real to me. Perhaps I am just more hardheaded or more doubtful than most. As I have said before, I was 47 years old before I accepted Jesus as a real, living, personal companion – my Lord and Savior. Until that time I was a “good Christian” who attended church every Sunday and was involved in all the stuff of being a good church member. It took me a long time to take Jesus more seriously than church work.
I guess what I was trying to say to Journeyvision is that I hear your struggle between the life you know and the life you want to know. You are hearing a lot of encouragement to change. You are afraid. It will be hard. You are afraid you might fail. And, I am guessing, you are afraid you might miss the lifestyle you are leaving behind, and that would make you feel like you were letting God (and all these nice women)down. What I have learned as I have tried to discern God’s voice in my struggles is to wait, quietly, expectantly, for the certainty that says, “I am with you. We will do this together, Journeyvision. Be not afraid.” That’s when I find the strength to make the hard choices and do the work to move closer to God. This, Journeyvision, is what I wish for you.
Janet,
I think you wrote exactly what is going on inside for me. I am afraid. I am thinking about this decision and what it really means and if I can do it and what if I fail. i think that i am really afraid of letting God down of making a hasty decision because i see all the comments here and the trouble everyone is going to write to me. i read what is written but somewhere inside me i am lost in just trying to see God and understand. i m searching for God’s love and to see him for myself, i guess. i dont know. but you wrote how i feel inside at this point. yes i saw myself as a sinner but i feel no connection to God
Journeyvision,
“For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and will bring you back from captivity.”
Love, God.
thank you again Janet H.
I know i am at that fork in the road. i see my utter helpless ness and see that i need God very much. i m crying out to God to change me from the inside because i cant do it myself. so i do cry out to God because no one can help me except for him although i am most grateful for the words here. it distresses me to think that still after hearing this i have no power within myself to help myself. i need god’s power. so i said earlier that i was a sinner. i never been so happy to admit that to myself because i ve never admitted it before although i was close to seeing it many times. i used to actually think i was okay. i would say to myself that i m okay, theres nothing wrong with me, not realizing or seeing that i was in need. i say that i want god, but then i am following my own selfish desires. i m so engrossed in my own sin that i dont see, until i came here on this forum and blog i didnt see it. i say i want God, yet in another breath i follow my inner desires that are wrong. it tears at my soul and threatens to destroy it. it causes me much inner turmoil. yet who would readily want to go through that willingly. yet i believe i wasnt going to deal with it at all but god wanted me to. how in the world does someone fall in love with God, and him only? when all your life you’ve heard of him, and even read the bible, yet he seems a stranger to me?
Journeyvision,
You ask, “How can someone fall in love with God and him only?” I remember a week-long silent retreat where my director gave me an assignment to spend the whole week reflecting and envisioning myself in the story of John’s disciples seeing Jesus, being drawn to him, and he asks, “What do you want?” (John 1:35-39) As I spent each day in this scripture, journaling my experience of meeting Jesus, having him look me in the eye, and answering his question, I fell in love with Him.
Then the question that burned in me over the next many months was how I could ever love God more than my husband and children. I really brooded over this. Sometimes I was in tears over it. Then one day I was returning home from a 4 hour trip to attend a 2 hour church committee meeting and just praying and praying for God to show me how to do this, when suddenly, sitting at a stoplight near my destination, I realized that I did love God first, at last! It was such an amazing revelation! The most cool thing about it was that loving God first made me love the others even more than I had before. Or maybe better than I had before. It was such a glorious mystery!
Keep at it. Struggle with it. Don’t give up. Be not afraid.
Hi journeyvision! Hi Janet H.!
I think they are good words Janet H. Journeyvision, I know that God is real and that He can change a life, for I have experienced that in my own life. When I was younger, I was involved in drugs journeyvision. I lived and breathed them, it is all I wanted to do. I knew about God journeyvision, but I didn’t really know Him. One day, my boyfriend,at the time, and I went to buy drugs from this young couple. When we got there, they were acting all crazy, like they had lost their mind. When we left I told my boyfriend, we have to stop, I don’t want to be like that. I wanted, I said to be good. That only lasted to the next day, when my desire for drugs was greater than my desire to be good. I decided I couldn’t be good. So, I continued to do drugs until I began to pass out. I would wake up, not knowning what happened or how I got home. One day I was doing drugs at my home, and then went to visit my friends. When I got to my friends house, my heart was racing so fast that I thought I was going to die. I was afraid. I asked my friends to pray for me, and they just looked at me like I was crazy, they didn’t know how to pray, they didn’t know God. Then I went in the other room where my boyfriend was, I thought maybe he could pray for me, but he too, was all drugged up. So, finally, I just remember crying out to God to forgive me, to save me. Then I passed out. The next morning I woke up, covered in my own blood, with my boyfriend lying beside me and I had such a evil feeling about me, that like hung over me, that I told my boyfriend that morning, that if I have to live like this, I would commit suicide, and I meant it. Then the thought came to me, and it must have been God, that I just have to talk to someone who is good. I could no longer live the way I was living. So, I called up my sister, and she came over, and she asked me if what I was feeling was about God, and I said yes. As soon as I said that journeyvision, it was like this big heavy burden, like shakles fell off me. We then left the place I was staying, and as we were driving, it was like, God had given me a new pair of eyes, everything looked clean and new. I stayed with my sister that night, and that night I had a dream. I dreamt that God and Satan were fighting over me. And Satan, was saying to me, that if you choose me I will give you that feeling of that drug that you like, I’ll give you that feeling all the time. And God was saying to me, that if you follow me, I will give you what is real. When I woke up, I got down on my knees and told God I choose Him. I asked Him to forgive me and to come into my heart and you know He did. Once I asked Him to come into my heart, I was filled with such incredible happiness from the inside out, and I knew that God had heard my prayer. He took my desire for drugs immediately away. He set me free journeyvision and I know that He can do the same for you. He is real!
Thank you, Fellowsojourner. My son is a drug addict who was arrested for robbery to support his habit. While in jail he attempted to commit suicide. He was “dead” for 4-10 minutes. In that time he tells me he was shown Hell. He faces a 5-15 year sentence in state prison for what he has done. It is my prayer for him to have a real conversion experience, as you did. Not a jailhouse conversion but a real life-changing knowing of God Truth, a truth that will set him free, even while he is incarcerated. Your story gives me hope.
Janet H.,
Thanks for writing, I love what you have wrote. I think it is true, what you have wrote, and you are very articulate, as Dee says. I hear what you are saying about embracing the truth for ourselves. The encouragement of others is great and we need it, but what we really need is to embrace God for ourselves, this too, I hope for journeyvision.
I know there is hope for your son Janet. I know also, my mother was a Christian, and I know God heard and answered her prayers. She would pray often for me, I know, and believe now I am a part of God’s kingdom, because of the prayers of my mother. God heard her! He is bigger than we imagine Him to be. I am so grateful for that!
Fellowsojourner,
every time you write to me, its like i am strengthened by your words. it gives me just a little more strength to make it and continue on the journey. wow, what a great and wonderful thing God has done in your life. who, better then you to tell it. i m grateful truly grateful for your words and those who have spoken into my life.
journeyvision
He loves you journeyvision! He loves me – it’s amazing to me – but He does!
Godspeed journeyvision, my prayer is that you will come to know Him – He is good journeyvision,
Fellow.
I’m praying for you journeyvision! He’s a Great God!
fellow, i wonder why now, why has God gone to all this trouble for me now? is there something about right now in my life? i just wonder if He knows something I don’t.
journeyvision
I don’t know the plans He has for you journeyvision, but I know that He knows. In the Bible in Jeremiah 29:11, it says, “For I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
His plans are good plans journeyvision, and you can rest safe in Him.
Thank you also Fellowsojourner.
I count it a priviledge to have known you only if just here.
Thank you for writing to me and all of us. Your comments and everything.
I have been given a new perspective after reading all of your replies, and it’s said with your true understanding and beliefs. I realize my post came off as angry, and that was wrong. Possibly defensive, since I do have gay friends and relatives whom I love very much. Journeyvision – your struggle seems to be internal – a struggle of acceptance. That can be torture – as we ALL struggle for acceptance and mercy. It’s similar to a struggle everyone faces – although yours is more outward. When you choose to not make a choice, you’ve made your choice. I would never tell someone how to live or what to believe, but what I know is this. I do not deny that I have depression. It is a part of me, it’s how God created me. It’s the cross I bear, my daily struggle. I seek other people for support, I take medicine, I’ve seen therapists. Here’s the thing. I do not DENY I have depression. It has defined my quirky sense of humor, my ability to be more insightful, my ability to feel deep, deep sadness when I see beauty. I have embraced and appreciated the struggle that depression has brought to me, instead of denying it out of fear of an unforgiving God. I’ve taken my “flaw”, and made it part of who I am. Without it, I’m sure I would be lost. With friends and family denying it, I’d feel misunderstood. I would avoid being around people who say “get over it – just be happy”, for they haven’t a bit of a clue how all-embracing this aspect of me is. I’ve decided to cope with it, to live with it, to fully understand it, and finally, to embrace it.
I’m rambling. My point is this. You have been given a special gift, one that is meant to teach others acceptance, patience, learning, and finally, compassion. See – it’s not *you* that is flawed, but all of us, in our own unique way. For you to deny yourself is to let the flawed universe win.
“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.” Galatians 5:1
The whole chapter of Gal. 5 is an excellent description of the struggle between our sinful nature and the life we have in Christ. It was good for me to read through this whole chapter again tonight.
Journeyvision, God is at work in your heart. It is very clear. I am praying for you. He is not a God of confusion and I will pray that you continue to see things clearly. I am so amazed by your courage & encouraged by your journey. You have great questions and God can handle our questions. He is so patient. He is so very near.
I rejoiced while reading your post yesterday that you have admitted you are a sinner. Oh Jesus wants you to be free! There will be some that try to confuse you along the way and Galatians 5 addresses that as well. I am praying that you will stay the course.
Here is more from chapter 5:7-10
“You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. A liitle yeast works through the whole batch of dough.
I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be.”
Oh Journeyvision, I realize the walk out of this lifestyle and into freedom will be difficult. There will be many who meet you on the way that will try to detour you.
You have many people on this website praying for you.
God has freed me from many idols. Freedom doesn’t mean that I will never be tempted, or struggle in a certain area. Freedom means that I now have a advocate, someone that can I draw strength from to help me when I am tempted. Freedom means that I no longer have to be a yoke to slavery. Humanism teaches I am what I have always been(I get mad, my nature is greed, etc.),but Christianity teaches that in Christ we are becoming less like our human nature and more like Christ. Christianity always moves upward and forward.
Our faith in Christ must have a beginning point and then we continue to grow in Him. We must daily choose to take off the old man/sinful nature and put on the new man. A new creation in Christ. The Bible is full of newness. Once we accept Christ, we are new creations in Christ and no longer have to stay in our old sinful ways.
I like to think of it like this. Before Christ, all I knew was sin, but when I invited Christ to be my Lord (the boss, the one in charge) and Savior, His nature came to live inside my heart. The Bible is clear that even after we accept Christ, we still have that old sinful nature. These two natures are at odds and they fight against one another. Who wins? The one I am feeding the most. We must daily renew our minds, and choose to let Christ (the new nature) win.
Reading the Bible, praying, having good Christian mentors and friends are disciplines we must have in our lives if we are to experience VICTORY in our Christian life.
I love Romans 12.
v. 1&2 says, “I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-this is your spiritual act of worship. DO NOT CONFORM ANY LONGER to the PATTERN OF THIS WORLD, but be TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING of YOUR MIND.
THEN……you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will.”
Jesus is our sin bearer and in Him we are FREE.
Scripture is clear that Jesus came to give us life and give it more abundantly. The Bible says, “The thief (satan) comes to steal and kill and destroy; but JESUS has come that we may have life and have it to the full.” I do not see anywhere in scripture that talks accepting depression or homosexuality as a special gift that we must embrace.
Can Christians struggle in these areas? Absolutely! As I have said previously, we still have that old sinful nature that wants to be fed; however, when we struggle we have the opportunity to draw near to God and and embrace His power that offers freedom. We do not have to embrace our sinful nature that leads to bondage. What a sad fate that would be!
The power of Christ is seen and He is glorified as He helps us overcome our temptations, not give into them.
Journeyvision, God loves you so much that He sent His son, Jesus, to die for all your sins. He wants so bad to lead you to a life of freedom and joy!
Keep journeying! He is so, so near!
Love, Cheri
i dont think i’m ready for God right now. i dont even know anything else either. sorry. i m sorry.
Journeyvision,
Please keep writing. I’ve enjoyed getting to know you through this blog.
Take Care of Yourself.
i will try to keep writing. it seems like its getting a little more harder to try to fight against the current. and its like someone screaming in my mind to shut my ears from hearing the truth. its like I’m struggling to be able to stay here and keep my focus. like one thing i am thinking about is how much can i share on here about where i am. where i am is trying to change my perspective of seeing women differently than the way i am used to seeing them. and knowing that sure i know my abuse has definitely paved the way for the choices I’ve made i cant blame it all on that. but it scars you in a way that makes you believe that nothing can be normal or the same. and then when i think about God, i read in the bible about how Jesus did not condemn that woman in the bible, he said he didn’t condemn her even though they said she was caught in a sin. so if i am to take that then, i would say that Jesus does not condemn. where else am i to turn for the truth? then if i submit myself to what i read there, then homosexuality must not be what God’s purpose for anyone life. so then, it is what i think about, how do i live with the thought of not turning to another woman for support and love? i can’t think about that. i am trying to take one day at a time so this is where i am right now. and from what i’ve read, it’s really not fair to place this before anyone else’s struggles that they have in life. in context, as I am in it, i can well say that i would not take anything away from someone who suffers from dealing with any other problem. and i’m the one saying that, not that i am any expert, but people have made it so much so that no one can get out of it without so much trouble. i’ve got so many different issues going on here besides the lifestyle that i was ready to just put the homosexual stuff on the back burner for a moment to take a breath.
Too bad so many people have to turn away from God because conservative christians simply can’t embrace homosexuality as normal. Would it be better to live our lives without the bible and possibly accept one another? Why would God create homosexuals and then condemn them for being as such? What about cancer? What about genetic defects? What about mental illnesses? Must we deny these and declare them taboo because God does not embrace all of his children? Does the bible claim we all act and look homogeneous? Is it wrong to be gay because the “parts” simply don’t “fit”? Or because of the uncomfort it brings heterosexuals? Think about these questions, think about the religious hyprocrisy that this evokes. We claim to love one another, yet teach others that homosexuality is wrong. The Lord that I pray to does not ask that we change the way we were made, but accept it. We all have our Lord – and in some way or another, you create him in your mind to justify your own beliefes and values. Admit it.
I wish you all the very best, Journeyvision, do not be afraid.
jenny,
when i read what you wrote i felt like “you almost” persuaded me me with your arguments, since I have had a chance to go back and re read what you wrote the first time. if homosexuality is not a sin, then i am truly fighting against myself and what i am inside. i’ m not sure God created homosexuals, I know he created man in his image. i think that it’s people that discriminate and shun and reject other people for their differences not God. i dont think God said its wrong to be gay because the parts don’t fit, I think God is all wise so in his wisdom maybe he knew that it would be damaging to us. maybe it was not in his mind for men and women to be that way. i dont know, maybe God does know more than we do about it, i guess we could ask him about it.
Dear Journeyvision,
Please do not think that your struggle in this conversation in any way overshadows the troubles any of the rest of us have. We all struggle in one way or another, and having a place to offer those things up in truth and open sharing allows each one of us to see that we are not alone in our distress. When I read your conflicting feelings it causes me to remember my own resistance to surrender all my “stuff” to the grace and mercy of God’s unconditional love.
Remember, it did not take you four days to become enmeshed in your current lifestyle so you certainly are not going to surrender it and change your lifestyle in this four days of conversation. You are on a journey. Journeys take time. Journeys take movement and journeys take rest. You have been given a lot of information and a lot of advice. It is now up to you to process all that through prayer and reflection. Be still and know that God is God.
God has been patiently walking this path with you, eager for you to recognize his presence and acknowledge his companionship. Perhaps it is hard for you to visualize God as Father, a man. It may help to visualize God as Mother, a woman. I do know that God meets you where you are and leads you to a higher place, if you are willing to follow her. Just know that whether you decide to leave this lifestyle or remain in it, God loves you – personally and intimately – and will not leave you. Simply reach out and invite God into your life, wherever you are. God will take you higher. That is the promise and that is the truth. May you be blessed as you work out your salvation, just as we all are.
Thank you Janet H. for your words also of encouragement and care love. everything you’ve said to me. Thank you.
Janet H.,
Thank you for putting into words what I was so desperately trying to figure out how to say.
Journeyvision, I in no way feel like your struggles overshadow mine. I so agree with Janet. This blog is freeing for all of us, regardless of our struggles.
I want to share with you my journey. While our journeys may be different, I have come to learn that regardless of what we have faced on this journey of life, we all want to love and be loved and we can all get tangled up and lost along the way.
I went to church while I was still in my mother’s womb. I really don’t remember a time when I didn’t know about Jesus. Since I can remember I have known that he was born a tiny baby, died on the cross and rose again on the third day, and now lives in Heaven.
At the young age of 5, John 3:16 became very personal to me. I approached my mother and told her that Jesus was speaking to me and wanted to live in my heart. I didn’t know a whole lot of theology, but I knew that I was a sinner, that Jesus died for my sins and He wanted to live in my heart and take charge of my life.
I knelt with my mom by our couch and she put my name in John 3:16. “For God so loved Cheri that He gave His only son, that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life.” I prayed a simple prayer and I began my personal relationship with Christ.
Three years later, my parents divorced. How could this be? My dad was a leader in the church. I moved 1,200 miles away with my mother and sister and away from my dad, brother and all of my extended family.
I grew up a very angry child and by the time I was a teenager and had boyfriends I became sexually active. I have suffered from fear of abandonment, depression, and panic attacks.
Once I graduated from High School my mother remarried and I was on my own. I had a very rough time living on my own as I went through several immature roomates as well as many unhealthy relationships with guys.
I went to church pretty regularly even though I was not living a life that pleased God. I mainly went for appearance and to make myself feel better about how I was living.
One day I was getting ready for work and I heard God say, “Cheri, you may have your mom fooled and your church fooled, but I know where you are.” I thought I had God in a neat little box that I would only take out when I wanted Him, but there I was and there He was. HE FOUND ME!
I got on my knees and asked God to please help me get out of this lifestyle, that I didn’t like myself anymore and I needed His help. He met me right where I was and put my feet back on the right path. It wasn’t easy. I had many tempatations to go back, but I learned to lean on God for strength, one step at a time.
He brought a godly man in my life and within a year I was married.
After I had my first child, I suffered a severe depression. I was not functioning. My husband and I were both students at seminary, he was a pastor of a church, and I could barely get out of bed due to depression.
God used a godly senior adult woman to intervene. Soon I was in an intense therapy program that lasted a year. I found relief through each private session, but “group” is where I really thrived. One thing I learned is that I had no right to judge others for their struggles. My group consisted of drug addicts, sex addicts, and alcholics. I learned quickly that regardless of our struggles they all had the same result. Our “addictions” crippled us and left us feeling lonely.
My main addiction was desiring the approval of others. I still daily fight co-dependency. My therapist told me that being co-dependent was like having green slime on your shoulder. She said, “you wipe it off one shoulder and it slides down the other.” I came to understand that I will always have to keep my co-dependency in check and that God would help me. Many times He uses others to help me see my blind spots.
I wanted to share this with you because even though I would consider myself a growing Christian that experiences God’s abiding presence and joy……..I still struggle.
I also want to let you know that while I am concerned for you, I know I am powerless to “fix” you. I find it a privilege to be sharing your journey with you and praying for you. I am blessed to have people in my life that really pray for me.
I am thankful for the many people that God has brought in my life.
Regardless if you choose to write on this site, you have already written your journey on my heart and as the Lord prompts me to……I will keep praying.
Good Night………Cheri
Psalms 139
Thanks so much for sharing your story, Cheri. It’s a beautiful example of the Lord’s love, grace, and empowerment.
thank you Cheri,
I appreciate you sharing with me your precious story. And I say that because I know all of our stories are precious. I think this blog with this subject is going to end soon and I am grateful for how you’ve spoken into my life at this time. Thank you for your thoughts and caring and concern for me. Thank you for allowing God to speak through you, to be his words of comfort to me. I won’t forget you.
DEE’S THOUGHTS ON HELPING THOSE STRUGGLING WITH HOMOSEXUALITY
Restoring in gentleness:
I want to commend each of you who have shared, for I have been encouraged by the spirit of gentleness. Truth without love is harsh, so that is why Paul says: “If someone is caught in a sin…restore him gently.” Thank you for your gentleness.
Restoring in truth:
Love without truth is enabling, so I am thankful too for the truth I’ve seen.
If you read Romans 1:18-32, you see a downward spiral. It begins with Romans 1:18-20 with a failure to acknowledge God, though creation shouts that He exists.
This leads to darkened minds. A frightening verse for all of us when we refuse the light is that “God gives us over to our sinful desires” (v. 24) until we worship the created things rather than the Creator. The root sin of homosexuality is worshipping people instead of God — that is also the root sin of so many things: gluttony (worshipping food); greed (worshipping things); etc. But here the Bible is specifically addressing homosexuality. For now, by verse 26, it says God gives them over to shameful lusts and women have sex with women, and men with men. The Message says:”Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. 28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done.”
It takes faith and courage to turn from the idol, whether that idol is sexual immorality, gluttony, greed — for the enemy says — you won’t be happy without it. But when you do run, run, run to God, you find the enemy was such a liar, for Christ truly fills our hearts with joy. And each time we turn away, we find ourselves getting stronger and freer.
We must pray for one another — for we all have idols of the heart, we all have a slithering snake in the grass who whispers that God will not be enough, and we need each other, just like Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 says.
We must share gently, or we are harsh. We must share the truth, or we are enabling.
I thank you for doing both. And I thank you for praying!
Dee
Thank You Dee, also for what you have done here and opening up this blog for everyone. Thank you for not judging but for your love and concern also. As I told Cheri, you have been like God’s voice to me over these past weeks. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
You are precious journeyvision – God thinks you are – so do we!
Thanks for sharing your heart with us, thanks for letting us speak into your heart – thanks for speaking into ours.
Religion needs to mature more if the world is going to survive in good shape — and for that matter, if religion is going to hold the respect of intellectually critical people.
That is the key adaptation that religions have to make in the modern world — to make people appreciate the moral value of people in circumstances very different from their own. That is a move toward moral truth. It’s a fascinating feature of the world we live in that as technology expands the realm of social organization, its coherence and integrity depends on moral progress.
Journeyvision,
I won’t forget you either.
As I have been thinking of my journey, these verses came to my mind:
The Parable of the Lost Sheep:
“See that you do not look down on one of these little ones, For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.”
Matthew 18:10-14
I rejoice that God, “The Good Shepherd”, came to me when I was wandering off and wanting to go my way.
When I was looking for love in all the wrong places, He loved me enough to put people in my path that loved me enough to speak truth. I am thankful for His Holy Spirit that speaks to me directly.
I am thankful that I have a relationship with God that nothing can change. I am thankful that even though I may wander and my fellowship with Him may waver……..I AM STILL HIS DAUGHTER AND NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT!
I am thankful that He created you and I am thankful that you had the courage to share your journey.
I am thankful that I can pray for you & I am thankful that what God offers to all of us is a personal relationship with himself….The creator of the universe and that is something “religion” can not deliver!
Bless You………..Psalms 139
I want to thank you also Jenny for what you’ve said made me think about a lot of things. I do respect your opinion but I do think that the truth can be found in God. I truly believe that and have to seek and continue my journey in His truth and what he says. That is the only safe place I consider putting my life in. Moral progress can only be measured, in what I believe according to what God’s standard is, not man’s, no matter how lofty his ideas are.
Thank you and Bless you.
Hi Journeyvision,
Just wanted to say thank you for you openess & laying your struggle out & entrusting it to the women of this blog….I think you see it is better to struggle within a living relationship with the Lord than to struggle without him;in you’re reply to Jenny shows the depth of your heart & your humility to submit yourself to what God desires even though there’s an immense struggle.As you weigh up the truth of God’s word & as it applies to your life the Holy Spirit causes it to seep in your longing heart, you will smell the sweet aroma of life. I also thank the Lord for the wisdom & grace upon each reply I pray it will continue to be as healing balm to your life Journeyvision. I was thinking of you in the night & praying for you. I had a relationship with a woman in my early 20’s. I remember even saying to a youth pastor I feared being gay in my teens but alas he didn’t have the maturity to take it seriously. Having found at that stage women’s company easier than men ( as I was fearful of men)so when you work & fellowship (yes I was young Christian at the time) suppose it was big set up for me to fall…( I did find men attractive but didn’t really have a clue how to treat them or relate).It has taken me along time to really close this chapter of my life purely in my recieving the Lord forgiveness ( it has happened over years) & entrusting myself to his promise of doing a good work within & to be confident in his promise. Reading Dee’s book on friendship just brought to me an understanding of our need for intimacy in friendships but it truly is only what the Lord can give which can bring us contented hearts. I do have to tell you I’ve been married for almost 19yrs & have 6 children. The Lord has restored to me an understanding through my husband & a few good brothers in Christ what a geniune man is in his eyes , not perfect but reflecting his love..again I have to be careful I don’t allow my husband is the one to meet all my needs. So Jouneryvision I speak not of any great strength in me but in my weakenesses it truly is only when the Lord who has done a work & has blessed me ways I never thought. I do appericate our stories are very different & yet your struggling & wrestling though a painful place is a far better place to be because the Lord can work & is at work. Thank you again for your honesty & questions Journeyvision. Bless you.
Lamantations 3:22-25
The Steadfast love of the LORD never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. “The LORD is my portion” says my soul, “therefore I will hope in him” The LORD is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.
You are welcome Elizabeth.
I think it’s going to be hard to not come here and write because I’ve formed a bond here by writing what is on my heart and mind. because i think being here is a good environment for me to find some kind of growth. its hard too because sometimes there are more people who seem to be so accepting in the gay community of one, more than in the “Christian Community”, where you can go to for friendship and comfort etc. I wish there were more here in the real world as opposed to the internet but God speaks everywhere. What i wish is to be around people all the time like that are on this site. but i am thankful for where you are and thank you for sharing with me your life story. it seems so many people have been helped and touched by God here.
Hi Journeyvision
thanks for the quick reply took me by surprise..
You’re very gracious in your reply & may the Lord put about you the geniune & Godly friendship, love & acceptance you need in the reality of your world.
Elizabeth — I’m so thankful you wrote. Last night I was praying if it was time to post a new post, and felt I should wait. Your testimony is golden, so I’m glad the Spirit held me back. I’m so very thankful for the deep sharing, and as you say, for Journeyvision’s heart, which makes it possible.
And Journeyvision, even when I do post a new post, this post will stay open. But for now, I don’t feel led to post a new post. When I do, I believe it will be a continuation of this one, but in a slightly different and exciting direction. Journeyvision — from the activity on this site, there are many Journeyvisions reading, being helped, being encouraged to live the life God longs for them to live — though they have been hesitant to actually enter in.
Praying for each person who comes to share.
Dee
Dee, I am glad you are keeping it open for now. I’m really glad
Hey y’all, 🙂
warm greetings in Jesus! Dee invited me to join in on this thread…Thankful for a place for so many of you to share your thoughts, struggles, related to homosexuality among women…and all the ‘roots’ that contribute to it, and the pain associated with it.
I serve as Women’s Ministry Coordinator for Harvest USA, (Philadephia PA) a ministry of “Truth and Mercy”, with a focus on sexual sin and brokenness. I have the privilege of being invited into conversations every week, that are similiar to this thread of posts. Women (and men, and spouses, and parents) come to our ministry seeking help/hope in the midst of a homosexual or heterosexual oriented entanglement of the heart. I smile at the names “journeyer” above because our support group for women is called JOURNEYERS IN GRACE.
My story and journey is one that connects with many of you…from teen years on I had more emotional attraction towards women, rather than men. It really wasn’t sexualized…more “romantized”. What followed were emotionally idolatrous relationships with women. Some friend to friend, some mentor to mentee. The Lord continues to change me and redeem my struggle as I now am invited into the lives of woman after woman who have struggled this way, often in secret shame, pain and fear…not knowing how Jesus can really bring change! HE CAN! PRAISE HIM!
We all go after “broken cisterns” (Jer. 2:13) to try to find life/living water, but only Jesus is our Living Water. No woman, or man can fill our heart because Jesus reserves that place for Himself! Amen!
Hi Ellen,
I wish I had something like that here. I would like to know more about that.
i didnt know there were ‘roots’ related to it. and other ‘issues’ either. i just thought that you were like being a sinner when you were being gay. I would like to know more about this ‘brokenness’ and things. and i just figured that i learned it from women abusing me. i dont know. broken is a good word.
Just a little reminder of how non-acceptance and ignorance about homosexuality affects everyone.
http://www.matthewshepard.org/site/PageServer?pagename=mat_Matthews_Story_Main_Page
Enjoy.
Dear Jenny,
I don’t enjoy stories like that…and cannot imagine anyone finding enjoyment in something so terrible.
I realize that you and I do not approach the subject of homosexuality the same way, but I think we do agree that all people, including homosexuals, need to know they are loved by the Creator of the Universe.
Am I correct in saying that?
Clearly, I didn’t mean “enjoy” in the way that you should actually enjoy it. My point was this: unacceptance leads to terrible things, like hate crimes/ignorance/intolerance. I feel that is what christianity teaches, especially when people take the bible literally. We may not always like it or understand it, but if we LEARN it and actually take the time to listen and know these people that are “different” from yourselves, you may come to a new understanding. It’s better than quoting something from the bible which is NOT applicable to this day and life we live it.
Jenny,
Thanks for clearing up what you meant by “Enjoy”. I apologize, I thought you were implying that Christians, like me, enjoyed seeing homosexuals treated that way in some sort of sick “they are getting what they deserve” mentality. I am sorry that I assumed that. Please forgive me. Just as you have had your experiences, I have had mine with others judging that because I am a Christian I automatically “HATE” homosexuals and would want to bring them physical harm. Again, I ask that you please forgive me. That was not fair of me to assume that’s what you were implying.
I can tell that you are very passionate about your beliefs. You have continued to make your point that you believe unacceptance leads to terrible things, like hate crimes/ignorance/intolerance. Obviously, you have experienced something that has made you feel very strong and passionate about this subject.
I too have more than one person in my life that is living a homosexual lifestyle; however, my beliefs are much different than yours as well as my experiences.
We will have to agree to disagree that the Bible is not applicable for the day in which we live in. If I choose to embrace that belief I wouldn’t know where to start as far as picking and choosing what I believe is applicable and what is not.
Jenny, I do believe I sense in you a very caring and compassionate person who truly does care about people…..ALL PEOPLE! That is a wonderful character trait.
I get the feeling if someone has you in their corner, you will do everything in your power to stick up for them.
Am I right in my assessment about you being a caring, compassionate and loyal friend?
Cheri
Everyone may want to tune into Midday Connection tomorrow at noon central or listen online:
http://www.moodyradio.org/middayconnection.aspx
The first 15 minutes will interview a woman counseling believers how to help those in homosexual chains.
Thanks
Dee
Please feel free to keep posting on this site. As time passes, you can find it quickly by typing in homosexuality on the search site in the right top of my homepage. The next post is a continuation, with a slight turn.
Thanks to each of you.
Dee
Journeyvision — I finally heard back from Moody — and they will post a post on the forum. Are you still interested?
Dee
It’s okay then. Yes. Thank you.
We decided to keep posting on my site
I welcome you all to keep talking!
And Journeyvision — Ellen’s Dad had emergency surgery and she flew to him — but will be with you soon!
Hi Dee and everyone. I wish I could say that things are like sealed and done with but I guess I m feeling the struggle too much to really give it all up to God. I was thinking yesterday how what difference does it make who you love and who loves you. I guess it’s just not going to work right now with me. I dont know what is going on with me.
My Dear Friend Journeyvision,
I want you to know that I will not stop praying for you. I hear your struggle loud and clear.
I want to share my memory verse for this week from the “Falling In Love With Jesus” study that Dee co-authored.
“As a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.” Isaiah 62:5b
I am learning Journeyvision that it does matter who I love and who loves me and that my “first love” (the love that consumes my heart) must be Jesus.
Last night, I felt the conviction of the Holy Spirit to stop talking to a friend where the relationship is built on negativity and talking bad about others. (basically, slander.-which is a SIN)
She is reading “Friendships of Women” with me and is a part of my bookclub; however, our relationship is toxic. I spoke with her about it and she was feeling the same way. We decided to take a break from talking to each other, even if it is just for a season. I am having terrible withdraws as I am having to learn to lean on Jesus for emotional support, not a friend that feeds my flesh.
When I talk to Jesus, He feeds His Spirit that came to dwell in me when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. When His Spirit is fed, I begin to soar above the “common” way of thinking. He takes me to the High Places.
I am praying for you.
Do not lose sight of the vision God has given you. He still has a plan for you. A plan for good and not evil.
I had the enemy (satan) this morning trying to convince me that just a little negative talk wouldn’t be bad and really, “We are just telling the TRUTH!” That is how satan whispers lies. I know the truth and I know that NOTHING good has ever come out of talking bad about someone, even if what you are saying about them is TRUTHFUL.
At the root of me wanting to point my finger at others, is really my own huge volume of insecurities. It’s only when I see myself as Jesus sees me and let Him guide my steps, do I experience true peace and freedom, but I MUST THROW OFF EVERYTHING THAT SO EASILY ENTANGLES ME. The negativity of that friendship that drags me down, must be stopped. I have to take full responsiblity for my actions and do what I need to do for my spiritual, emotional, mental, social and even physical health. At this point I must stay away. I am hoping that one day her and I will be able to be friends again, but only if it will be a healthy friendship. I don’t blame her. I have participated as well as initiated the slander.
All morning I have been saying to myself…..”How in the world did I get here, AGAIN?” I am tired of not learning this same lesson. I am sick of this SIN. My only hope is Jesus. He paid it all, He takes me back again and again, but I have to tell you the consquences of continuing to not learn this lesson, get bigger and bigger.
I love you Journeyvision.
Hang In There,
Cheri
I haven’t gotten everything read here, but I see lots of GOOD thoughts. While homosexuality hasn’t been an issue for me, I’ve had my struggles and failures in another area. Here’s a word of hope in a song by Don Moen for all who have struggled and failed. You can listen to the song at this site: http://davemincy.bandcamp.com/album/just-as-i-am
There I Go Again
Romans 7.15-25
words and music by Dave Mincy
©2007 by Dave Mincy
The things that I should not do are just the things I do,
No matter how hard I try to my flesh to die.
But I try and I try, and I try and I try—
And there I go again, walking into sin.
Sin holds my body captive, there is no good in me.
No matter how hard I try, I cannot justify
All the sin, all the pain, all my effort is vain—
And there I go again, walking into sin.
Yes, there I go again and again, and again and again—
There I go again, walking into sin.
O what a wretched life, to fight but never win!
Who can deliver me from all this death and sin?
I thank God through Christ Jesus He made a way for me,
And when I come to Him, He washes me within.
For this body will die but my spirit will live—
So there I go again, running back to Him.
Yes, there I go again and again, and again and again—
There I go again, running back to Him—
Finding hope in Him—
Through Him I will win.